Original music by Andrew Kuo.

[opening segment]

Sophie: Hey y'all. This is Sophie Ziegler. They them pronouns with Louisiana Trans Oral History Project and the Solidarity History Initiative.

Nathalie: Hey y'all. I'm your girl, Nathalie Nia Faulk, she her pronouns. I'm with Last Call Oral History Project.

In episode one and two, we laid some foundational work for y'all. We asked the questions, under what conditions do we see anti-trans and queer rhetoric come up? How has the legislation landscape looked in Louisiana before 2020? And what has it looked like since?

Sophie: And here in episode three, we ask this question, right? So what happens when the answer to those prior questions is increased state and interpersonal violence towards trans and queer people, multiple bills at all levels of government targeting these communities, and what do those communities do about it?

Nathalie: So with all of this context, over 20 21, 20 22, the state legislator are brewing up bills and something had to be done.

it turns out Sophie Trans and Queer Louisianan came together, collected the power they had, and fought back.

Nathalie: And thus, Natalie, A star is born. Intro stage right: locALL, the Legislative Organizing Coalition for all LGBTQ plus Louisinianans

Dylan: I've been doing coalition work for years and years now, and I think one of the things that was really, really clear to me about this one was that even though there was like, you know, maybe a date in like January of 2021, I think, or February, where we, we all first came together in a Zoom meeting and started to have these conversations together, it was like very much years in the making, in terms of like what it actually looked like to build the network of relationships that made this particular coalition possible.

And in Louisiana, work around trans rights and trans safety issues has been like racially segregated, culturally segregated, socioeconomically segregated, geographically segregated, like every division you can think of has been there for so long.

Peyton: we needed a team. We needed people. We needed experts from the medical communities.

It was really vital that we got our coalition together because as we've seen was like every social movement, the people involved in the movement can say stuff until they're like blue in the face, but they're already marginalized and not empowered. So they're not respected in the same way that like their allies are.

It was the first time we'd ever built coalition, so it felt really powerful to have people I had met briefly, or people I'd never met that came and it almost became like a little family.

Dietz: What we know from even like locALL was that, you know, we had a pretty robust team this year, like the year before it was maybe like what Nia like 10, 13 people who were like involved at all times.

Exactly. Exactly. That feels well. Right.

Yeah. But this year felt more like 20 to 40 people who were like around, and so like movements take time to build. And it sucks when like, you know, do we have to keep building the movement in this way? What are they gonna say next? That feels tough, but in the same way that I was waxing poetic about how I love all of organizing brains in the same space.

I think we owe it to each other as states in the south to link arms a little more closely

Nathalie: so we just heard from Dylan Waguespack, Peyton Rose Michelle, and Dietz

Sophie: all of whom we've heard from in earlier episodes.

So in early 2021 locALL came together, a group of organizers, a group of passionate individuals, and they continue to come together today to fight the fight that still needs to be fought.

Nathalie: I know that's right. I was lucky enough Sophie to be in the room with the other coalition members, and I remember we each had a certain calling

Nathalie E: Being someone that had actually been able to play in some of the roles that I would've been restricted from, I got to bring that kind of a background to the conversation and to what we were doing.

A'Niya: I think about how the south has the largest concentration of LGBTQ plus people. And I think about how in Louisiana, we have such a rich history of our trans cesters and our elders doing political work. It's such a rich history to build off of. And I really do think that in a way I don't need to speak or advocate for anybody because we are powerful enough to do that on our own and for ourselves. But there is no denying that, for some folks that whole process might feel a little bit mystifying, and so I really think of my role is demystifying that process for folks, and making it a bit easier to understand and letting folks know, "Hey, I'm here with you, not only am I a member of this community, this legislation, these laws, these rulings, they impact us together. They impact us together. So I'm gonna do what I can to like, be with you on this advocacy journey, as we try and do whatever we need to do to make things at least a little bit better for ourselves and for the people that are coming after us.

Sophie: so here we just heard Natalie of the Louisiana Trans Advocates in Monroe, Louisiana. Secondly, we heard from A'Niya of the Louisiana ACLU.

Nathalie: Yeah, and I think what's really important and cool here is that they're highlighting how each member of locALL really brought something different and we know how critical it is to have multiple strategies in reaching a solution or in fulfilling a campaign. There's no silver bullet whenever it comes to like reaching a goal or fulfilling a campaign.

And so I really like that we have people who were grassroots organizers. I love that we have people who are like really familiar with how the legislative process works and I love people who are like, actually we are here to do oral histories. AKA, I loved us.

Sophie: And oral history is, in fact, it's why I'm here and I love all of us just found our way to fit in, right? Like it's so wonderful. I said like, oh my gosh, I can't make it to all these calls, but I have a recorder and I'm used to asking questions. Let's make a podcast.

Nathalie: It was perfect. So here we have Natalie again, echoing the need and desire for building power by building base.

Nathalie E: I was the one of the few from the north part of the state, that were trying to organize for this. And so a lot of mine was trying to actually get people engaged from my area and from the north parts of the state.

Whether it be for trying to send calls or emails or whatever it may have been, to tell them, Hey, reach to your representatives. Tell 'em like, This is not good for Louisiana. It's not good for trans people. And so the largest part of what I was doing was that outreach there, because I am so far from the capital, even though I did make a couple of the trips.

A lot ended up being just trying to organize people here to call and email and to reach out to representatives, however that may be. And even whenever we had one of like town hall meetings and we were discussing how this would impact people within our state I was one of the people that was on there because I grew up playing sports.

Dylan: I, I think that the really cool strengths are that we do literally have members across this entire state. I mean, there's like not a corner of the state of Louisiana where I can't like figure out, okay, who is a trans person that we can call and be like, "Hey, what's going on in your neck of the woods right now?" right?

With the coalition, that was sort of a, like an institutional affiliation that like at some point we just weren't wearing those anymore. And so it was more about what it looked like for all of us to be working together as individuals with various connections to certain sets of resources and relationships and communities.

So my role really was to provide some advising to the coalition around the legislative process and the politics of the space and offer some of what to expect and, and things like that as sort of a legislative vet.

SarahJane: So now we're seeing an uptick in, And I don't even like this word, like specialized, but in such a great way that people are very much focused on missions. So while we all come together for legislative support, you know, when we're doing other work, we're doing our oral histories or we're working at the gender clinic or we're working in schools, right?

We're doing our things that fit the needs and the wants of the community. And then we all come together to either uplift or fight back

coordinate and coalesce all of that together in a way that everybody's voice is heard and in a way that everybody feels as if they can be educated on the legislative process and be involved in the legislative process, should they want to be there.

Nathalie: That's Dylan, board member of Louisiana Trans Advocates, one of the main organizations who were fighting for LGBTQ plus people in legislation. And one of the anchors of locALL. After Dylan, y'all heard from Sarah Jane, at forum for equality, another anchor in the early days of locALL.

Sophie: LocALL is also very lucky to have community-based community organizing efforts, focus on trans wellness and liberation as a strategy for the liberation of all. Let's hear a little bit more from both Pearl and Dietz about wellness and the liberation of our communities.

Pearl: I wanna elevate in how I combat anti-trans legislation, how I protect myself and my community from anti-trans legislation is by providing space for us to be ourselves, fully ourselves, unapologetically ourselves, and know that like we deserve healing.

I deserve healing just by existing, but certainly through all these attacks that are happening. You know, living in a state effectively wants to oust you. They want you to move, they want you to not exist.

Dietz: because so much of the legislation has been focused around bodies and I think because I work in trans health, there's, there's a lot of like, kind of immediate connection there. it immediately impacted the people who I was serving. A lot of scared parents, a lot of scared kids, because so much of the legislation was targeting, you know, trans youth, whether that be around sports access, whether that be around medical access, like young people were really put on the, the front of this like range.

And because I was in a unique position to be hearing actually in community and in conversation with more trans kids than most people had access to at any given point, you know, I'm already a politically oriented person. I'm already, you know, an abolitionist organizer. It already made sense to be doing this work because it's where my heart is at.

Liberation is the name of the game, like forever and ever. Seeing the very real fear, not just among my immediate friends and family, but statewide made me feel like we have to mobilize behind this.

Nathalie: I think what's so cool about the legislative organizing practice is that while some people are like building power from the base up, there's power to be like shifted and moved around legislators and around legislation, and I think people who do legislative organizing are important because they do just that

Sophie: I've heard this articulated in any number of ways, but one of 'em is, you know, like you need someone on the inside to open the window so you can hear the people outside chanting, right?

Just like we discussed in episode one, legislative work is never gonna li be liberatory in the sense that it's going to actually liberate us.

It's always gonna be instrumental. And so we added to all the other things that are instrumental. We're trying to move this forward and we're trying to stop all the bad bills. We're trying to get good bills. We all are working together toward that.

Nathalie: Yes, that's, it reminds me of the, like you have to create things that serve you while preserving the things that exist, that also serve you while destroying the things that are coming for you. It has to be a multi-tiered front like you're saying. We're all in this together

Sophie: It would be nice if we didn't have to do it, but we do.

Nathalie: Yeah. Right, right. And so speaking of that, I'm like, we have the legislative organizing and complimenting that is the direct action.

There are plenty of organizing happening on the grassroots side, and we hear from some of our folks, particularly Toni and Serena

Toni: I guess it was When we felt that there was something that we could do to help join with the people already on the ground leading the work and just raising more vocal support here in New Orleans where we had a base of people that we had been able to mobilize for things like demonstrations and phone zapps before. The real name campaign has a lot of socialists in it and was founded specifically by Marxist Feminists.

we're not just idealists, we're, Lenists specifically. When we saw this happening, we knew that on a practical level, a defeat for trans people materially is a defeat for any movement for liberation.

But, we like know from our readings of Lenin, that a great strategy to use the legislature is a arena of struggle, just like struggling in like a school, struggling in public dealing with the police, the legislature is just another site for struggle like any other, and that, that gives you the opportunity to not diefy it and feel like this is the arbiter of what is possible and what's impossible, but at actually just another place to, to yell at someone and call 'em out their name.

So our main goals was to, one, make sure that we didn't contribute to any losses to trans people.

Cause like I said any losses such trans people is like a loss for the whole movement. There was a lot of conversations to be had about like If we go up and, blow up the spot in a way that's not, in alignment with what organizers in Baton Rouge are doing, because this is not our neighborhood, If we're not careful, we could, potentially undo something that someone's already been done, just out of ignorance.

So we figured that, the health of the movement was more important than just like rushing through an action. So we did some like creative like sports Day at the Capital where we invited people to just have a ball game at the capital. Because, anything that builds community is like building real, like radical power.

Serena: You've gotta go at it with a lot of different approaches, right? For example, we weren't gonna rely on like a lawsuit or we weren't gonna rely on a friendly politician or a team of lobbyists. You know, uh, it. By all means, Sue, sue the legislature, get together your team of lobbyists, by all means. I'm not gonna tell you not to, but what we, what we wanna rely on is we wanna rely on the people to go out there and to light the fire under their feet. That means bring people out to protests, phones apps, that means direct actions, that means civil disobedience if necessary.

Ed: so we opted for, I guess, civil disobedience. Um, the members of the campaign got together, uh, and in the coming weeks we had a lot of discussions about trust and capac capacity and. What people were willing to do and at what risks they were, um, willing to take.

Like we had someone doing media, someone who was prepared to handle things if we got arrested.

And as the session was starting, we were going to drop the banner. we had material prepared to recite the reasons why this was wrong morally and ethically, why this was going to harm, uh, Louisianans and Louisiana children and then to be arrested. We were prepared to Be peacefully like handcuffed and brought away somewhere until our, our bail was posted.

It's was a white banner with big black text, protect trans youth. I wanna say it might have been visible for all of about 10 seconds, but that's, that's really all we needed. They had just finished, the chaplain had just finished with the opening prayer

I think like the video that was recorded of this, you can start to hear us in the balcony, and from the balcony you can see every single state representative and their aids turn around and looking at us. The acoustics was like, not great. You couldn't hear what we were saying, but you knew exactly what we were there for.

We clearly weren't threatening, we were being disruptive, but it was pretty obvious that we weren't a danger to anybody.

We had these security officers like grabbing clothes, arms, And, uh, trying to push us off. Um, at least I, I can only speak from what I recall experiencing in that moment is that no one said I was under arrest, I wasn't moving. Um, I, I wasn't being aggressive, but. I wasn't moving either.

As we were pulled down the staircase of the balcony, I can at least recall myself and I know other people were saying, We're going peacefully.

You, you don't have to push us. You don't have to shove us.

I don't think that how it was handled was safe for anybody in the building. Um, I don't know. The legislative session would've been disrupted anymore if they waited three minutes for us to have just been removed through arrest.

It was just a lot more brutal than even we would've anticipated.

once we got down the stairs, we were led outside. There were state troopers there kind of like waiting for us, I guess, to just be a means to not let anyone back in.

It must have been like some head of security. I remember him saying something along the lines of, that's not the right way to do it, to not have respect for the system and not have respect for other people's voices.

Um, and I think in that moment I came to the realization that, I hadn't put into words yet is we we were there because we couldn't have respect for a system that is being weaponized to harm and erase trans people in the state.

Everybody walked away without arrest. Everybody walked away without serious physical injury. We actually came back to the steps after being told not to come back and did a press conference with four or five different media sources.

Nathalie: First off, shout out to the real name campaign for their powerful, powerful, powerful work. And this, this need for like disrupting power and doing it in a way that is actually meant to build the power of other people, um, is very important because, You need people chanting outside so that the people inside, when they open that window, they actually are hearing what actually needs to be done.

And not in a cute way, not in a polite way. People have suffered in silence for years, and I think it's really important to have people who actually are like, we're not actually here to appease you. We're not gonna talk sweet to you. We're here to disrupt what you are doing.

Sophie: Yeah, that's exactly right. And again, what we're seeing is just so much of that spectrum of possibilities represented altogether in locALL, it's just like really affirming, right? And I don't know.

Do we stand a chance, Natalie? I don't know, like, like, it's tough to live in Louisiana.

But just think about all the, the wonderful things that have come together in reaction to the shenanigans . I just,

We're gonna pick on the trans folks who aren't bothering anybody.

And we're all like, wait, what? And like suddenly we're all together.

Nathalie: Exactly. And now we have all of these connections across the state that feel really good. And now even when we're not just like fighting a the good fight or whatever, locALL has actually helped to create a network of people who can just be there love on each other and supporting each other. And that feels like it'll last way beyond any legislation.

Sophie: And I, I think there's just so many wonderful things to say about locALL, and in a lot of ways this episode is sort of a celebration of them. Let's go ahead and end with some clips about how folks think of locALL from within locALL.

Corrine: I see the coalition that has come up this year and I feel better than ever like better positioned than ever that we more and powerful people than we ever have before to, to show up. And, really the thing that I'm most proud of is that this is a much broader, wider, diverse group of folks who are working together now than we have five, six years ago.

And like that is the way forward and is what is going to give us the lasting capacity to fight this stuff back is to have much wider group of folks who are coming in, learning how these things work, getting involved, being passionate about it. And it's really exciting to see.

Pearl: I would say something I'm very proud of bringing into spaces that combat anti-trans legislation is the urge and the energy for a leaderful movement of finding what all of our strengths are individually and then supporting that. Um, you know, cuz it's thing of like Power Rangers, they all came together to make that mighty morphin jawn, you know what I'm saying?

Like it didn't just take the yellow Ranger, it didn't just take the black Ranger. Like everyone had to come together with their specific traits and qualities and create this fist of a movement. So that's like something I'm proud of and something that I can do in session, out of session at any time.

SarahJane: honestly, I think for me, the past two sessions have been the most beautiful and the most remarkable, because it has been surrounded in community and coalition and, I think that Louisiana has always been ready for that type of work.

And a lot of that goes to the fact that the people in our community now have capacity, now have time. There's an expansion of resources within community that allow people to have the time to volunteer, right? Like there's been so much of our community that has to work and work and work and survive.

We're now seeing joy and, and love. And I, and I think that that's really what pushes this community work forward.

Dietz: I have been really inspired by the intentionality that locALL put forth in particular to fight just as hard for each other, maintaining our wellness mentally, physically, spiritually, as we were fighting against the bad things. To me, that felt like it was almost always in pretty close balance. And I don't think that that's awfully common with legislative planning. I think there's all kinds of other organizing that really holds that at the front, but I have not witnessed, you know, and I, it.

I've been living in new Orleans for 10 years. And I was involved in like some legislative stuff, you know, here and there as it had popped up but I, I had never been in a space that was that intentional and what model making that is, you know, like what beautiful, positive modeling that is for how we ought to fight for that and curate that in other spaces in our lives. So I'm really grateful for that.

Sophie: And so there you have it everybody. The Legislative Organizing Coalition for all LGBTQ Louisianans was birthed as a direct response to the community's call for a broad strategy on keeping trans and queer people safe in this state.

Nathalie: We wanna take a second to honor the organizing legacy in which local was created and honor all of y'all doing this work. We love y'all.

Sophie: We are now in 2023. The legislative session is going, things are Hmm, bad again so find where you fit in this right. Reach out to your local, trans and queer organizers, organizations, find where you can help. Let's get together. There's space for everybody. There's a need for everybody.

Nathalie: Bye y'all.

Sophie: Bye y'all.

 Nathalie: All right. Hey y'all. It's your girl, Natalie Nia Faulk she and her pronouns. And I'm with the last call oral history project.

Sophie: And hey y'all, this is Sophie Ziegler, they them pronouns, and I'm with the Louisiana Trans Oral History Project, which is now part of Solidarity History initiative.

 NathalieYeah, and you're listening to our joint oral history project, which documents trans resistance, power building, and healing in the midst of the 2021 and 2022 legislative seasons.

Sophie: And in episode one last time, we laid some historical context for the ways in which rhetoric meant to create fear and policy systems and legislation set the tone for the current nationwide effort to pass legislation that would limit access to, socially isolate, and overall cause harm to trans and queer people.

We did this of course through our Louisiana lens.

Nathalie: Exactly. And episode two y'all. We wanna talk about how the stories in episode one have evolved in the present. 21 and 2022 were years where we saw politicians try to legislate in response to covid, racial justice movements and an increased visibility of trans and queer people.

This too was happening in Louisiana. Join us as we share a journey of how coalition of trans and queer organizers, artists and healers came together to make sure that they were not erased.

[Intro music]

Sophie: Let's start by gaining some understanding of what we were up against.

A’niya: There are some really shadowy groups who essentially write these transphobic and homophobic bills and they just shop them around to legislators all across different states. And so it's copycat legislation that's filed in like a dozen states.

And I mean, I remember one bill I was reading it was filed here in Louisiana, but they didn't even bother to change the state's name that they took the legislation from. And I was like, what do you mean this is nothing to do with Colorado? Why is Colorado in a Louisiana bill? What is this? So anyway, I think it says a lot that this is like a multi-state effort.

Peyton: So in 2020, the first anti-trans sports bills were filed in Louisiana, and I say gratefully, COVID came around because then the whole legislature was so focused on dealing with covid matters that they just forgot about the trans people and the bill just went away and you know, they didn't work through it during the session, session ended, we were like, cool, we're in the clear.

But we knew that in 2021 we would see things come back around, but it gave us a little bit more time to understand, to watch how other states were dealing with these things, et cetera. And then of course, 2021 came around and we saw two anti-trans healthcare bills and two anti-trans sports bills filed.

Sophie: These particular bills filed in 2021, including a fear mongering bill meant to imply that trans youth were getting surgeries done without their parents' consent, which of course was never a thing. There've always been mechanisms in place to keep something like that from happening. We also saw a sports ban on trans youth from kindergarten all the way through college.

Nathalie: The Sports Bill particularly was a bill with an intention to erase trans folks from public space.

Whether it's to isolate them from social spaces or whether it's to deem them as not appropriate to be seen publicly. And we know the dangers of that. There are mental dangers of isolation. And we also know the dangers of keeping people separate from public spaces means that you're less likely to meet a trans person, like love a trans person, care for a trans person, or understand the struggles or successes that trans people go through.

And so it's an intentional bill to remove and erase trans people from public spaces.

Sophie: Yes. And just a little bit of a spoiler, a little bit of a pitch to the next episode. This first go round locALL was successful in defeating all these bills, right in 2021. Um, but you know what they say, right? You, they try and try again.

Nathalie: Of course, of course. And 2022 would see the same type of bills being copied and pasted with the little addition. The 2022 bills that were in the slate were the usual ones, right? Seemingly, each branch of legislative houses in Louisiana had only half the power. So this time there was only one bill on each house.

So the Senate Bill five 70 was a ban on gender affirming care for trans youth. And the Senate Bill 44 by Beth Meisel was a band on trans young people in sports. And so in 2022, we went from four bills to which were. S of each other to having two particular bills, but one in each house

Sophie: and also this time around almost just for good measure, right?

We saw a version of a bill that was making its rounds across the country, most notably perhaps in places such as Florida House Bill 8 37 by Doty Horton, the don't say Gay Bill. So a little bit of context here about our version of the don't say Gay bill in Louisiana. Here is Sarah Jane from Forum for Equality talking about that.

SarahJane: We had a battle this year that we did not expect, and that was the don't say gay bill. And I was shocked that we had the bill and I was also shocked by the bill itself, just the language of the bill. So for context, Florida had to, don't say gay.

The Florida bill was just saying kindergarten through third grade. You can't say teach or be, basically gay or queer in any way. That's like the gist of it. Our bill went like way farther. Our bill was like, you know what, Hey, third grade, no eighth grade. Okay, eighth grade. It's middle schoolers. So kindergarten through eighth grade, you weren't allowed to teach, talk, include anything about sexual orientation or gender identity.

Then even farther than that, if you were a teacher, a staff member, personnel, speaker, presenter, Hey, me, I like, I couldn't go to high schools anymore if this had gone into law, Would not be able to identify or talk about their own sexual orientation or gender identity.

Sophie: And so this was the slate of bills trans and queer folks were facing in 2022, the big three bills attacking healthcare, trans young people in social spaces like sports, and this new bill, which expanded the legislative attack on queer folks.

Nathalie: And what these bills in 2022 remind me of Sophie, is that in 2021 it was, these bills directly were just attacking trans people. And the sole focus was on trans folks.

And so this is a note and a sign, um, just for anyone listening to this, who is organizing the importance of solidarity in collective liberation because while in 2021, there was a huge directive attack against trans people who, of course they always start with the most vulnerable communities of people.

And then if no one supports them or helps them, then they're like, No one cares about them. So then let's take it a step further. And then now we have these bills that are attacking not just the trans community, but the queer community. People who teach queer students and queer teachers and people, and queer families in general.

And so while 2021 was a direct attack on trans people, People saw that some of these bills passed and was like, let's take it a step further, and then now have begun to legislate around the lives of queer people as well. And so that's just a note on why we need collective liberation and solidarity, because if you don't support the most vulnerable people, guess what you might be next.

Sophie: I think that's exactly right. And just to add to that, I'll say the solidarity is almost already built in, right? Because we see that this, a lot of this language is recycled from Jim Crow. A lot of it's recycled from the, the anti-gay propaganda from the 1990s. And we also see that when bigots get a toe hold by picking on trans folks, yeah.

They immediately expand to the LGBTQ plus community, writ large. They also almost without stopping to take a breath, start attacking black people. I mean, you can see it like at the time of this recording, right? Um, Florida went directly from trans folks to queer folks in general, and then directly from there to restricting AP classes on African American History.

So yes to your, to your notes about solidarity. Um, we really don't have a choice. It's, it's all of us or we're all in trouble.

And what I'll say now is, um, you know, we can also have a chance to look a little bit more deeply at each one of these bills because I think they have.

A lot is given away. Maybe this is a good way to put it, a lot is given away by the way that they're written, by the way that they're discussed in committee and the way that they're voted on in the, in the house and the Senate. So the sports ban, was deadly and was the only bill to actually pass of the three in 2022.

It, it was the only anti-trans bills at the date of this recording to pass at all. And, and after, you know, only that after three attempts, but let's jump it over to, uh, Sarah Jane to talk a little bit more about this bill.

SarahJane: So, SB 44 is a bill that was in the 2022 session. It's third iteration and it's second full attempt to become law.

The bill itself attacks transgender athletes. It says that any elementary, secondary, or collegiate student cannot participate in competitive sports. It basically Means that a third grade soccer player is being treated like a collegiate football player.

While it's a very complex and complicated situation, I think that, you know, we can all agree that there are various ways that trans people can participate in sports freely without discrimination. The state of Louisiana has zero desire to actually competently look at this issue.

And so that bill went through the Senate, then through the house and Then it went to the governor's desk. One of the things that we saw in difference in its third iteration was there was a very big shift nationally in the conversation. I think a very unfair conversation that even progressive news outlets were steering to be very honest. And to be very honest, people in our own community and people in the progressive community do not have a fair understanding, a true understanding of this issue. And so because of that misinformation, we lost legislators support. So when we look at specifically SB 44, that, that was a, a lot of loss, right?

Sophie: So Nia, you know, one of the things that I'm really thinking about is the rhetorics of protection and saviorism that underpinned the bill. I really think that this is very important and I'm, I'm so happy that you and I had a chance to talk to Pearl Ricks who was there. As we remember, um, the committee on the day that this was heard and, had this wonderful opportunity to testify against that nonsense.

Uh, we followed up with them later to talk a little bit more about this

Nathalie: yeah. Pearl’s absolutely brilliant in shout out Pearl, who's the executive director of Reproductive Justice Action Coalition ReJAC in Louisiana.

Pearl: Simply me looking at the issues and saying, okay, so what are the mechanisms of hate that push this forward? And then how do I undo those gears? So an example of that would be introducing, um, Conversation around save women's sports and the weaponization of the word save and the in infantilization of the word women and moving people towards violence.

Using those words, we need to save and protect. We need to look out for women's sports. So, One, it's a weaponization of the empathy in our community. People hear, save, they hear, protect, and they hear valor. They hear, this is something I should be doing. Like if I'm proud of whatever I'm creating in my community, I should save women's sports, protect women's sports without understanding one: all that the word women encompasses, and two: that you would be harming and a, and actively hurting groups in order to do that. That safe and protecting. It's not protecting, you're harming another group to create that space. Right. So it was something, it was a space I could bring. Rhetoric, um, to light and tell people you're being used, your empathy is being weaponized, and this is how they're doing it.

If you want to save, if you want to protect, then why don't we ask why most of the coaches in Louisiana for girls sports are cis men. Where is the, where is the, the work path, where is the career path, for young athletes in the state that are not cis men. That are not cis boys. And then you can actually look into like how you would protect, when we look at the amount of money that our school system dishes out to boys football versus a girl's lacrosse or a girl's tennis.

And I use this language because that's the language that's used in the school system, not to cut anyone out of the conversation in terms of gender. But to keep it in alignment with how they talk about it in school sports. If we look at the inequity behind the funding, why isn't that a way to protect or save?

You know, like, why aren't we creating space for that? So it was just so much fun and it was so much, um, it really was to like play with words and hold it up in front of people. And I believe that's why 2021 was our, one of our stronger years.

Nathalie: Um, and yeah, like they said, there is so many ways in which these bills are written with like without being in conversation with trans folks, intersex folks, queer folks, um, that would've actually been able to like, provide an education for like, to break through the binary, um, of science or of how we think about sex and gender. And I think there is something else that Pear brought up too that rings true another one of our oral histories.

So we Also talked to Natalie, who is a superstar sports trans athlete. They do some roller derby that's badass, and they also are part of the Louisiana Trans advocates. Natalie herself is a trans athlete who has competed and we want to highlight some of her analysis around the bills are actually not just bad for trans folks, but in fact they're harmful for cisgendered women and girls as well.

These bills are classic examples of how white supremacy uses white womanhood in order to justify and perpetuate the ugly, harmful things that it does. Here's Natalie. Yes,

Nathalie E: whenever we were discussing like how this would impact people within our state I was one of the people that was on there because I grew up playing sports.

And so being someone that had actually been able to play in some of the roles that I would've been restricted from, and at least being able to try out for other sports that I wouldn't even been able to try out for because of said legislation. So I got to bring that kind of a background to the conversation and to what we were doing.

and for sports bills, it's literally just they, they view women as just so fragile that it is just gotta be this little, little bit of thing and you've gotta protect it and it, it's like this little glass delicate.

Look at how much we try to police women as it's like, it's just, it's policing women. That's all it boils down to.

Sophie: I really love this from Natalie. I'm so glad that, that we had a chance to include it. I just sort of wanna say, and as often comes out kind of as a joke, but I think it's really important, is that not all of us have a lot of experience with, with sports. I, I'll say from a personal point of view, I do not.

Right. So when they, when, when the legislators come out and say, that's it, no trans people in sports, I almost sort of look around like. To whom are they speaking? Like who? Who could this possibly be for? So it's really, really helpful to have a reminder of what it is that sports brings to people who participate.

Nathalie: Agreed. And, and I'll say too, what you're saying, Sophie makes me think of like how, like I know like some of it is like who are they talking to? But then like literally it is like, who are they talking to? Because there are not any instances of trans people taking titles away from people. Like, if you even wanna talk about like collegiate things, like no, there's not that many instances of anyone, trans people playing in sports, taking scholarships away from people.

Sophie: Yeah, that's right. And I'll just, I'll just say, I guess my ideas of what sports could be, up until recently was still grounded in high school, um, where again, I did not really participate. But now as a parent, I do see the value of this, right? Like I do see what, what, especially young children, because that's my experience right now are getting out of this opportunity to, to play with other kids and the empathy that this build, the understanding the social skills that this builds.

And of course, Natalie helped me understand that too.

Here she is talking about the benefits of sports and what we lose when we can't participate.

Nathalie E: When it comes to sports, like when you have a team that has your back, because that's what it takes, especially if it's a team sport, you have to have each other's back.

Even if you don't necessarily agree with everything that they do or everything that's going on, you still ha have to be to the point where you're willing to lock arms and fight for each other, and that's what it is. Whether it be on a court, on a field, whether it be in a rink, whatever it may be, whatever the sport may be.

Whenever you're a part of a team, you are that morale boost. You're that person that's their cheerleader. Because not all sports we don't all get cheerleaders. But your teammates are your cheerleaders and many times over, they're gonna be your biggest one because they're right there with, they know what you're doing, they know how things are going, and so they are going to be pushing you, and they expect just the same. They expect you to push them just as hard. When it comes to sports it's not about necessarily just making someone accept me as me, that comes as part of the package, but it's about saying, Okay, we all have one goal. We're gonna get there, and in the middle we're going to learn teamship.

We're gonna learn about thinking about other people, not just ourselves how our choices can impact the people around us.

And that's why sports are so important . And so for the trans side, that also means accepting who you are.

It's about saying everyone has a chance and we're all going to fight for that chance. We're gonna fight for everyone to be empowered. We're gonna fight so that we pull out the best of everyone. And sports does it. And that's for a lot of us that's where we learn

Whatever the sport may be. It's about learning, cooperating and helping. And that's what sports bring and that's how it even helps with trans folk because it says, Okay, I accept who I am. This is a part of me. Let me stop worrying about just who I am and let me be a part of this team and put my focus into this.

Sophie: So to help us make a transition away from sports and back over to healthcare and the bills related to that, we're gonna let Dietz, who is a trans healthcare activist and organizer, talk a little bit about the contacts in which the healthcare bills are made.

Nathalie: Mm-hmm. And one thing wanna name here, we know that this is a study of, uh, oral history collective and oral history research over,

you know, maybe two or more years, and actually a little bit before these two years and a little bit after them. But we just wanna be clear that chronologically, these things can be funky and wonky. So Dietz is talking about the 2021 bill, but we firmly believe that it's an overarching analysis that actually fits to both of the years, the healthcare barriers we saw in 2021 and 2022.

Dietz: I remember especially like the first time, the first youth trans health bill was like kind of being like formulated and yeah, I remember being on some calls with you maybe like two years ago when we were like, I mean they were talking about potentially doing some of the things that Texas wound up trying to implement, you know, or saying that like they would take kids away from their parents if they supported them, whether or not medical transition was even a part of it. Like if you just like use your kid's correct name and correct pronouns and recognize that they are who they are, that potentially your kid could be taken away and be given to c p s.

Like there was some really scary parts of the legislation that didn't actually make it into the final ones that we were really, I think trying to organize around and there was so much stress and anxiety before we even knew what the final legislation was gonna look like. But the legislation was focused more on needing parental consent to access any kind of hormone therapy if you were under 18.

So like, you know, there's, there's a lot of misconception about what trans health means for young people. I think there's a lot of assumption that providers who are trying to support gender diverse youth are really pushing surgery very early and promoting surgery very early. Anyone who knows anything about gender affirming surgery in the state of Louisiana knows that it is very hard for grown ass adults to get gender affirming surgeries, and we actually don't even have access to most of the surgeries at all.

Like no surgeons in no clinical settings in the where you can even get a vaginoplasty or you can even get a phalloplasty, like the kinds of surgeries that they were really pointing their fingers to being like the reproductive

viability of our youth and what happens if no babies come out of these people, like we didn't even have access to those things. But those are the kinds of things that really, I mean, vaginoplasty and phalloplasty those sound scary to somebody who doesn't understand kind of the context of how those surgeries fit into trans people's lives.

Sophie: I love Dietz's Insight as somebody who works so closely with healthcare professionals and patients, and I know that they, they've said in, in different parts of our different interviews about the fear and the stress that the bills here in Louisiana, but also the bills across the nation have been causing people.

And again, as they point out, it's not as though people are just handing out surgeries. Nowhere in the state of Louisiana for any of us could we get most of the surgeries that are at least implied by the, by these bills.

Nathalie: I, you know, they're not even affordable or possible in Louisiana for me with that's someone with insurance.

And so, Um, again, it speaks to the things Sophie said earlier at the top of the show, and speaking to what Dietz said, again, it's really mostly made to put fear into people. There's no one handing out surgeries. There's no one saying like, there's no one even taking parents's ability to be parents away.

And so it actually is funny because there's a piece of like conservatism that says, we don't like big government. There's a piece of conservatism that says we actually don't wanna tell you how to live your life . And when it comes to other folks, right? When it comes to things like social security, when it comes to things like giving healthcare to all, there seems to be a really hard push against the government telling people what to do with their tax money and how to live their lives.

But when it comes to parenting your children or like making decisions about your, your children's healthcare that would benefit their mental health or their physical health in the long. It seems to be okay to have these big government mandates, and that is just a weird contradiction to me. It always has been.

And like Dietz is saying that the gender affirming healthcare that people receive who are young is actually typically meant to like be positive interventions on mental health and positive interventions on navigating society for things that people are already doing. Whether it's like wearing wigs, whether it's like binding their chests or whether it's, whatever it might be doing.

And again, almost never ever, and oh for sure never, ever in Louisiana has included surgery. And so all that to say, this is what we're kind of facing right in the landscape of 2021 and 2022. And to kind of close us out, we started with the most brilliant A'niya who works at the A C L U in Louisiana.

And who's phenomenal organizer, healer, sweetheart. And we wanted to close with A'niya because they give a really of what it feels like to have your life, your body, your spirit, who you are, be reduced to a piece of legislation, especially when people who don't even know trans people don't know queer people who don't care to know them, are the ones who have the power over you. And so we'll hear from A'niya.

A’Niya: to do this work of activism, of organizing, of advocating, is, I mean, it's tough. It's really, really tough emotionally. Um, you know, not only do you have to deal with lawmakers who are just openly transphobic, openly homophobic, they're letting their fear and their hatred drive them because they're too afraid to actually deal with that.

I mean, you also have to deal with people who probably do support you, but they're frankly too cowardly to do it publicly.

And you also have to be in an environment where your life, your rights are being discussed as if it's an object, as if it's even up for discussion. Like you're literally being debated.

And so the fact that we even have to do this work at all. It's truly, truly taxing, especially considering the environment we have to do in.

Nathalie: Yeah, A'Niya just has a good point, and so this is the context that people are in and that we're facing. And so the question becomes, after hearing all of this, what do you do when you're called to fight?

Whenever there's a legislator, their powers way bigger than you from institutions that have been around way longer than you.

What do you do when you're called to fight? And we hope that you'll stay tuned for the next episode when we talk about the collective and community response to these bills.

Sophie: We'll be back with the record of how it was we did fight. And I'll just say I'm so thankful to A'Niya for really naming the exhaustion that comes with this.

Nathalie: Yes. Well stay tuned y'all, episode three. We on the up and up. Take care.

In this first episode, Sophie (from Louisiana Trans Oral History Project) and Nathalie (from Last Call Oral History Project) offer some context to the ongoing anti-trans legislation happening in Louisiana.