Behind HBO's Industry, are showrunners Mickey Down and Konrad Kay, two ex-bankers who walked out of London's finance world to create one of TV's most compelling modern dramas. Here are the 6 creative lessons I learned from them about redefining your identity and doing great work...

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Timestamps:

00:00:00 Intro

00:03:56 The Journey: From Banking to HBO

00:12:45 Rule 1: Write What You Know

00:17:31 Rule 2: Give People a Peek Into an Inaccessible World

00:23:21 Rule 3: Study Human Nature

00:32:17 Rule 4: Create Something Shocking

00:40:32 Rule 5: Steal Like An Artist

00:46:35 Rule 6: Don't Stop Making

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Art mentioned:

• Industry - TV show, HBO (Mickey Down and Konrad Kay)
• Mad Men - TV show, AMC (Matthew Weiner)
• The Wire - TV show, HBO (David Simon)
• The Sopranos - TV show, HBO (David Chase)
• Game of Thrones - TV show, HBO (David Benioff and D.B. Weiss)
• Mastery - book, Robert Greene
• Gregor - indie film, Mickey Down and Konrad Kay
• Edinburgh TV Festival - panel/interview
• Keep Going - book, Austin Kleon
• Hayao Miyazaki - Make Like The Greats episode 2
• Bruce Lee - Make Like The Greats episode 8
• The Godfather - film (1972), Francis Ford Coppola
• The Social Network - film (2010), David Fincher
• "Industry's Unintelligible Finance Jargon" GQ article by Jack King

• Television Academy - interview, Mickey Down and Konrad Kay
• The Prestige - film (2006), Christopher Nolan
• Indiewire - interview/podcast, Mickey Down and Konrad Kay
• Tasteland - podcast, hosted by Daisy Alioto

• The Laws of Human Nature - book, Robert Greene
• The Lord of the Rings - book, J.R.R. Tolkien
• Becoming The Main Character - podcast
• 50 Cent - Make Like The Greats episode 1
• The Creative Act - book, Rick Rubin
• Hamilton - musical, Lin-Manuel Miranda
• Washington Post - interview, Mickey Down and Konrad Kay
• Apocalypse Now - film (1979), Francis Ford Coppola (edited by Walter Murch)
• The English Patient - film (1996), Anthony Minghella (edited by Walter Murch)
• Novembermag - interview, Mickey Down and Konrad Kay
• Steal Like An Artist - book, Austin Kleon
• The Runaway Species - book, Anthony Brandt and David Eagleman
• Heat - film (1995), Michael Mann

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To learn from makers not covered in the podcast:

Twitter⁠: https://twitter.com/makegreats

LinkedIn⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-greats/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makegreats/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@makegreats

After starting 2 years ago, ICONS Podcast is evolving. In this special episode, I'm announcing the rebrand to 'Make Like The Greats' — a name that better reflects the podcast's true mission.

Here are the creativity lessons I learned from Rick Rubin by reading: Rick Rubin In The Studio, by Jake Brown

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Art mentioned:

• ​"Problem Child" (song by AC/DC)
• ​Highway to Hell (album by AC/DC)
• ​"Rick Rubin, In The Studio" (book by Jake Brown)
• ​The Midnight Special (TV show)
• ​Iron Man films
• ​Magna Carta Holy Grail (album by Jay-Z)
• ​"Berzerk" (song by Eminem)
• ​"Mastery" (book by Robert Greene)
• ​"It's Yours" (song by T La Rock)
• ​Flower Boy (album by Tyler, the Creator)
• ​IGOR (album by Tyler, the Creator)
• ​To Pimp A Butterfly (album by Kendrick Lamar)
• ​"Happy" (song by Pharrell Williams)
• ​"The Runaway Species" (book by Anthony Brandt and David Eagleman)
• ​"I Need a Beat" (song by LL Cool J)
• ​Krush Groove (film)
• ​Radio (album by LL Cool J)
• ​Lemonade (visual album by Beyoncé)
• ​"Walk This Way" (song by Aerosmith/Run-DMC)
• ​The Uplift Mofo Party Plan (album by Red Hot Chili Peppers)
• ​"Ring of Fire" (song by Johnny Cash)
• ​American Recordings (album by Johnny Cash)
• ​Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison (album)

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Chapters:

00:00:00 How One Piece of Work Can Change Your Life

00:03:07 Rick Rubin, The Icon

00:05:49 Growing Up with AC/DC and Magic

00:14:00 Attending NYU (Enter Hip-Hop)

00:17:29 Producing a New Kind of Single

00:22:25 The Birth of Def Jam

00:29:57 Launching LL Cool J and a Movie

00:38:41 How Rick Rubin Works

00:40:22 Working with RUN-DMC

00:46:40 Working with Red Hot Chili Peppers

00:59:14 Working with Johnny Cash

01:10:10 Aim for Greatness

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To learn from makers not covered in the podcast:

Twitter⁠: https://twitter.com/makegreats

LinkedIn⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-greats/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makegreats/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@makegreats

What creative insights I learned from Al Pacino by reading: Sonny Boy, a Memoir.

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The podcast is now on YouTube - check it out!

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Art mentioned

• Home Sweet Homicide — Theatre Production
• Pulp Fiction, 1994 — Film
• Creditors — Theatre Production
• Dog Day Afternoon, 1975 — Film
• The Indian Wants the Bronx — Theatre Production
• Serpico, 1973 — Film
• Sea of Love, 1989 — Film
• Carlito’s Way, 1993 — Film
• Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie? — Theatre Production
• The Godfather, 1972 — Film
• The Godfather — Book
• …And Justice For All, 1979 — Film
• The Godfather, Part 2, 1974 — Film
• Scarface, 1932 — Film
• Scarface, 1983 — Film
• Wall Street, 1987 — Film
• Platoon, 1987 — Film
• JFK, 1991 — Film
• Natural Born Killers, 1995 — Film
• Any Given Sunday, 1999 — Film
• Mission Impossible, 1996 — Film
• Heat, 1995 — Film
• The Godfather, Part 3, 1990 — Film
• Richard III — Theatre Play
• Looking for Richard, 1996 — Film

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To learn from makers not covered in the podcast:

Twitter⁠: ⁠https://twitter.com/makegreats⁠

LinkedIn⁠: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-greats/⁠

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/makegreats/⁠

TikTok: ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@makegreats⁠

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Chapters

00:00:00 Life's on the Wire

00:01:24 Al Pacino as an ICON

00:07:52 Life Has Two Paths (Street Life)

00:17:33 The Other Path (Acting)

00:29:09 The Collaborators

00:44:37 Making The Godfather

00:56:05 Making Scarface

01:08:18 What Keeps Coming Back To You

01:20:56 The Greatest Word In English Language

What creative insights I learned from Bruce Lee by reading: Bruce Lee, A Life, by Matthew Polly.

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Check out the visual experience of this episode on YouTube now!

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Art mentioned:

• Bruce Lee Screen Test (1965) — Video
• The Children’s Paradise — Comic Book
• #2 - Hayao Miyazaki — ICONS Episode
• My Son-A-Chang — Film
• An Orphan’s Tragedy — Film
• Sins of the Father — Film
• In the Face of Demolition — Film
• The Guiding Light — Film
• #1 - 50 Cent — ICONS Episode
• The Art of Learning, Josh Waitzkin — Book
• The Mind, Explored — Newsletter
• The Orphan — Film
• 1000 True Fans, Kevin Kelly — Essay
• Batman — TV Series
• The Green Hornet — TV Series
• Once Upon A Time In Hollywood — Movie
• Tao Te Ching, Lao Tzu — Book
• Longstreet — TV Series
• Bruce Lee Pierre Berton Interview — Video
• The Big Boss — Film
• Fist of Fury — Film
• The Way of The Dragon — Film
• Game of Death — Film
• Enter the Dragon — Film

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To learn from makers not covered in the podcast:

Twitter⁠: ⁠https://twitter.com/makegreats⁠

LinkedIn⁠: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-greats/⁠

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/makegreats/⁠

TikTok: ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@makegreats⁠

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Chapters

00:00:00 How Bruce Lee was Found by Hollywood

00:01:41 Bruce Lee as an ICON

00:05:33 The Many Names of Bruce Lee (The Child Star)

00:18:28 Bad School Kid (Fighting)

00:25:14 Martial Arts - Wing Chun

00:38:52 Moving to the US and Cha-Cha

00:48:41 America & Teaching Wing Chun

01:02:52 What Robin was to Batman

01:13:59 Jeet Kune Do

01:21:44 Longstreet

01:29:09 The Hong Kong Films

01:41:38 Hollywood’s New Man: Enter the Dragon

01:49:54 The Passing

01:54:11 The Icon (Bruce Lee's Legacy)

BONUS EPISODE: How to turn your early-career frustrations into a great career.

What I learned from reading the 2008 blog post, The Canvas Strategy, and Ego is the Enemy, by Ryan Holiday.

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The podcast is now on YouTube! - Check it out⁠

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Art mentioned:

• The Canvas Strategy, Ryan Holiday — Blog post
• Perennial Seller, Ryan Holiday — Book
• The 48 Laws of Power, Robert Greene — Book
• Mastery, Robert Greene — Book
• The Laws of Human Nature, Robert Greene — Book
• The Baptism of Christ, Verrochio (Leonardo Da Vinci) — Painting
• The 50th Law, Robert Greene — Book
• The Book of Five Rings, Miyamoto Musashi — Book

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To learn from makers not covered in the podcast:

Twitter⁠: ⁠https://twitter.com/makegreats⁠

LinkedIn⁠: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-greats/⁠

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/makegreats/⁠

TikTok: ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@makegreats⁠

What creative insights I learned from Christopher Nolan by reading: The Nolan Variations: The Movies, Mysteries, and Marvels of Christopher Nolan, by Tom Shone.

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⁠⁠Download the Bonus PDF (Christopher Nolan’s Best Work + Insights Summary) here⁠⁠

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⁠The podcast is now on YouTube! - Check it out⁠⁠

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Art mentioned:

• Inception — Film
• Christopher Nolan, Founders Podcast — Podcast
• Memento — Film
• #6 - Coco Chanel — ICONS Podcast Episode
• 2001: A Space Odyssey — Film
• Blade Runner — Film
• Alien — Film
• Star Wars — Film
• Day in the Life of a Knife Maker — YouTube
• Interstellar — Film
• First Man — Film
• The Place Beyond The Pines — Film
• Drive — Film
• Blade Runner 2049 — Film
• The Art and Making of the Dark Knight Trilogy — Book
• Batman Begins — Film
• The Dark Knight — Film
• The Runaway Species: How Human Creativity Remakes The World — Book
• Las Meninas, Piccaso — Paintings
• Why So Serious? (The Joker Theme), Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard — Music
• #5 - Charlie Chaplin — ICONS Podcast Episode
• Samson and Delilah, Rubens — Painting
• Following — Film
• Pulp Fiction — Film
• Reservoir Dogs — Film
• Citizen Kane — Film
• Tenet — Film
• The Italian Job — Film
• Ocean’s Eleven — Film
• A Fistful of Dollars — Film
• Oppenheimer — Film
• American Prometheus — Book
• Clear Thinking, Shane Parrish — Book
• Searching for Bobby Fischer — Film
• Hard Eight — Film
• Bottle Rocket — Film
• The Prestige — Film
• Casino Royale — Film
• How To Do Great Work, Paul Graham — Essay
• Westworld, HBO — TV Show

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To learn from makers not covered in the podcast:

Twitter⁠: ⁠https://twitter.com/makegreats⁠

LinkedIn⁠: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-greats/⁠

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/makegreats/⁠

TikTok: ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@makegreats⁠

What creative insights I learned from Gabrielle ‘Coco’ Chanel by reading:

1. Coco Chanel - The Legend and The Life, by Justine Picardie
2. The Laws of Human Nature, Robert Greene

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Download the Bonus PDF (Coco Chanel's best work + insight summary) here

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The podcast is now on YouTube! - Check it out⁠⁠

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Art mentioned:

• Patterned paved corridors of Abbey, Aubazine
• Interlocking knot and loops in window, Aubazine
• La Pausa staircase side-by-side with Aubazine Abbey
• Qui Qu’a Vu Coco — Song
• Chanel logo in Mayfair lamppost
• Palmy Days (1931) — Film
• Chanel No. 5 — Perfume
• #5 - Charlie Chaplin — ICONS Podcast Episode
• #1 - 50 Cent — ICONS Podcast Episode
• Lululemon ‘Dupe Swap’ Campaign
• Westworld, HBO — TV Show

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To learn from makers not covered in the podcast:

Twitter⁠: ⁠⁠https://twitter.com/makegreats⁠⁠

LinkedIn⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-greats/⁠⁠

Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/makegreats/⁠⁠

TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@makegreats⁠⁠

What creative insights I learned from Charlie Chaplin by reading his autobiography.

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Download the Bonus PDF (Chaplin’s Best Work + Insights Summary) here

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Art mentioned:

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ICONS is now on YouTube! - Check it out⁠

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To learn from artists not covered in the podcast: Follow ⁠@theICONSpod on Twitter⁠ or ⁠ICONS podcast on LinkedIn⁠.

Ideas I got from artist Leonardo Da Vinci from reading:

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⁠Download the Bonus PDF (Da Vinci's Best Work + His Letter to Ludovico Sforza + Insights Summary) here⁠

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Art mentioned:

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ICONS is now on YouTube! - Check it out⁠

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To learn from artists not covered in the podcast: Follow @theICONSpod on Twitter or ICONS podcast on LinkedIn.