In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with cultural critic, writer, and iconographer Jonathan Pageau to explore the state of contemporary storytelling and the enduring power of myth.

Pageau, creator of The Symbolic World, explains how symbols operate beneath conscious awareness to shape imagination and culture. Together, they discuss why traditional narratives appear depleted, how propaganda differs from true myth, and why fairy tales continue to communicate truths modern culture struggles to articulate.

The conversation turns toward artists and storytellers, what it means to create work rooted in beauty, transcendence, and enduring symbolic patterns rather than novelty or cynicism. The conversation also connects with the theme of The Breath and the Clay 2026 —what it means to make space: space in our art, in our imagination, and in our lives for transcendent meaning to take root.

Jonathan Pageau will be our keynote presenter for this year's event in Winston-Salem, NC, March 20-22. http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com 

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Join Malcolm Guite, Jonathan Pageau, Stephen Roach, and so many others!

http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com

Use the code "mystic26" for a special podcast listener rate!

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• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
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In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach continues the series The Pace of Beauty with Dr. Timothy Patitsas, author of The Ethics of Beauty.

Focusing on Chapter Six, The Mystical Architect, they explore the inseparability of beauty and goodness, the cruciform nature of the artist’s journey, and how trauma has shaped modern art’s uneasy relationship with beauty. Together, they consider architecture as a foundational pattern of experience and the slow work of cultural renewal through restored patterns of beauty.

Learn more about Dr. Patitsas and his work:
 https://www.stnicholaspress.net/store/the-ethics-of-beauty

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Join Malcolm Guite, Jonathan Pageau, Stephen Roach, and so many others!

http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com

Use the code "mystic26" for a special podcast listener rate!

Support the show

• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
• Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

This replay episode features excerpts from a 2017 conversation with author Brian Zahnd, exploring his insights on Christian aesthetics and the role of beauty in faith. 

The discussion centers on Zahnd's book, "Beauty Will Save the World," and his argument for understanding Christianity through the lens of beauty rather than relying solely on truth claims and moral arguments.

Send a text

Join Malcolm Guite, Jonathan Pageau, Stephen Roach, and so many others!

http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com

Use the code "mystic26" for a special podcast listener rate!

Support the show

• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
• Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

What does it mean to repair what has been broken, and can there be beauty in that work?

In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach is joined by Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg for a thoughtful conversation on repentance, accountability, and the demanding work of repair. As part of our ongoing series on beauty, this episode explores repentance not as performance or apology, but as a process of truth-telling, learning, and transformation.

Drawing from ancient Jewish wisdom and contemporary justice work, Rabbi Danya reflects on how individuals, communities, and institutions can move toward healing after harm—and why art, imagination, and beauty are essential for sustaining the work of justice and hope.

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• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
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The Beauty of Authenticity — John Van Deusen

Songwriter John Van Deusen joins Makers & Mystics to explore the beauty of authenticity in art, faith, and vocation. In a creative landscape that often rewards certainty and success, John reflects on the cost—and freedom—of making honesty the point.

At the center of the conversation is his latest album, As Long As I Am In The Tent of This Body I Will Make A Joyful Noise, a shape-shifting, faith-inflected collection that resists tidy resolutions and embraces vulnerability, doubt, joy, and embodied life.

Together, host Stephen Roach and John Van Deusen talk about creative calling, audience expectation, near-successes, family life, and why authenticity remains a risky—but faithful—posture for artists.

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• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
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What if beauty isn’t an escape from the outrage and exhaustion of the world—but a form of resistance against it?

In a culture overrun with anxiety and uncertainty, turning toward beauty can feel almost defiant. In this episode of Makers & Mystics, host Stephen Roach is joined by theologian, poet, and cultural critic Jonathan P. Walton to explore how beauty forms us for resilience, integrity, and repair—both personally and communally.

Drawing from his book Beauty and Resistance: Spiritual Rhythms for Formation and Repair, Walton reflects on the spiritual and emotional work required to live truthfully in a hurried, narcissistic culture. Together, they discuss the tension between joy and guilt, the importance of celebration and lament, and the danger of the false self in spiritual formation.

Jonathan introduces the Four Rs—Rest, Restore, Resist, Repeat—as a crafted rule of life that helps us resist what deforms us while cultivating beauty, depth, and intentional living. He also shares the backstory behind his poem “Change of Plans,” offering insight into how community, faith, and honesty shape the long journey toward wholeness.

This conversation is an invitation to slow down, tend to what is wounded, and rediscover beauty not as escape—but as faithful resistance.

Resources & Links

• Beauty and Resistance: Spiritual Rhythms for Formation and Repair — Jonathan P. Walton
• Support The Podcast —  Join our Patreon growing community! http://www.patreon.com/makersandmystics

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Support the show

• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
• Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

What role does beauty play in a fractured and hurried world—and what might happen if we allowed it to slow us down?

This episode marks the beginning of a new Makers and Mystics series, The Pace of Beauty, exploring how beauty invites us into a more attentive and spiritually grounded way of living.

In this opening conversation, Stephen Roach is joined by Winfield Bevins, author, artist, and founder of Creo Arts, a missional arts community awakening the world to the beauty of the Christian story.  Together, they explore the themes of Winfield's book How Beauty Will Save the World and reflect on the intersection of art, faith, and community.

Winfield shares personal stories of how art became a lifeline during a formative season of his life, and how creative practices can function as spiritual disciplines. He emphasizes the transformative power of beauty and the arts in a broken world, advocating for a deeper integration of creativity within the church. 

Book Offer for Listeners

Oaks Press is offering listeners of Makers and Mystics a free copy of Winfield Bevins’s book How Beauty Will Save the World. Simply cover the cost of shipping and use the code MAKERS at checkout.

Get your copy here:
 How Beauty Will Save the World — Oaks Press

Resources

• How Beauty Will Save the World by Winfield Bevins
• Creo Arts
• Makers and Mystics Podcast

Send a text

Support the show

• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
• Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Moving at the Pace of Beauty

Season Introduction — Makers & Mystics Podcast

Elaine Scarry writes that “beauty quickens. It adrenalizes. It makes the heart beat faster.” Beauty is immediate in this way. It strikes us unaware and de-centers us, throwing us off balance and ushering us into a moment of euphoria.

Beauty comes to us in a flash, a sudden recognition, or a moment of beholding; however, its effects call for a much slower pace, one of deliberation and contemplation.

The pace of beauty runs counter to the breakneck speed of modern society. When we are hurrying along from one task to the next, we don’t take time to notice the tiny flowers along the roadside. We don’t see the grains within the hardwood or the elaborate stitching within a hand-woven rug. Beauty, then, is sometimes hidden and only reveals itself to those willing to slow down and surrender their gaze.

In this new series of Makers and Mystics, we’re going to explore the pace of beauty and how it serves as a conduit of grace and creative unction. We’re going to hear from a collection of artists, theologians, and creative instigators on how beauty impacts them spiritually and creatively. 

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• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
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In this episode of Makers and Mystics, host Stephen Roach is joined by Jared Farley of Porter’s Call, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting the emotional and mental health of touring artists and their families.

Together, they explore the tension between persona and person, stage life and home life, and the unique pressures artists face when identity becomes brand. The conversation examines the impact of fame on the human soul, the importance of sustainable rhythms, and why community and storytelling are essential for healing and wholeness.

Jared shares insights into why the soul is not built for fame, how isolation fuels addiction, and how intentional care and connection help artists return to themselves. Whether you’re a touring musician, a creative professional, or someone seeking greater integration in your life, this conversation offers practical wisdom for the journey toward wholeness.

Resources

• Porter’s Call: https://www.porterscall.com
• Backline: https://backline.care/
• Makers and Mystics Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics

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Support the show

• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
• Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

In this episode, Stephen Roach sits down with creative collaborators Justin McRoberts, Whitney Hancock, and Corey Frey for a conversation about the art of building authentic creative community.

From introducing their new online offering, "The Light Between," to a behind-the-scenes look at the upcoming Breath and the Clay 2026 event, themed "Making Space," this conversation explores how artists can create meaningful spaces for vulnerability, process, and mutual discovery in their creative work.

This episode is a celebration of artistic collaboration, meaningful friendship, and the quiet transformation that happens when we make room for mystery. 

About the Guests:

Corey Frey is a visual artist, poet, and musician based in Frederick, Maryland. Alongside his wife Christy, he co-founded The Well Collaborative, a community devoted to wonder, hospitality, and creativity. Corey serves as Exhibitions Manager at the Delaplaine Arts Center and is also a co-host of the Makers & Mystics Creative Collective book clubs.

Justin McRoberts is an author, speaker, musician, and spiritual director whose work bridges storytelling, faith, and creative formation. Through books, retreats, and mentorship, Justin helps people uncover their voice and live with greater authenticity. His work invites individuals and communities into deeper reflection, meaningful transformation, and a more embodied approach to creativity and spiritual life.

Whitney Hancock is an embodiment coach and creative director whose work centers on restoring presence, emotional honesty, and embodied spirituality. A former founding director of the Redding City Dance Company, Whitney now leads spaces—online and in person—where movement, breath, and nervous system awareness help people reconnect with the sacred intelligence of their bodies.

Stephen Roach is the founder of The Breath & The Clay and host of the Makers & Mystics podcast. He is a poet, creative mentor, and multi-instrumentalist with a background in ethnomusicology and film composition. His forthcoming book, How To See Invisible Things, will be published in October 2026 with Zondervan Reflective.

Opportunities & Resources:

• 🎟 Get tickets for The Breath & The Clay 2026
  thebreathandtheclay.com
  
  
• 🖋 Connect with Corey Frey
  coreyfrey.substack.com
  
  
• 📘 Justin McRoberts’ new book
  InTheLow.com
  
  
• 🌿 Learn about Whitney Hancock’s Woven Method
  The Woven Method
  
  

🤍 Support the podcast & join the Makers & Mystics Creative Collective
patreon.com/makersandmystics

• ✨ REGISTER HERE: “THE LIGHT BETWEEN” Gathering — January 8

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Support the show

• Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston-Salem, NC.
• Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1