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In this episode, we're lucky to be joined by client and now friend of Mayvin, Adrian Clarke, head of OD at Virgin Media O2. After Adrian read our Tony's book: "Managing Change in Organizations, he had some questions that he wanted to ask Tony, around:

• Leadership as a tool of management (rather than the other way around)
• Limitations of change and management tools
• The importance of embracing difference and challenge
• And how to find time for these practices

The conversation highlights the key role of relationships in effective management and provides insights into the characteristics of a good manager in the context of change management. Hope you enjoy listening.

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