Marko Pretorius from South Africa sits down with Matias Pehkonen and Joel Pietiläinen to explore how we can better understand and map the ecosystem in which we are making disciples.

Marko shares his personal story and reflects on the significant differences between disciple-making in rural versus urban environments. While disciple-making movements (DMM) principles often emerge from more linear, rural contexts, urban settings demand more complex, layered thinking. This is where ecosystem awareness becomes essential.

The conversation highlights that in urban environments it is not enough to simply find community—we must intentionally form community. Marko introduces The Crowded House, an apostolic expression on the ground where people grow as disciples and learn to make disciples together in everyday life.

Along the way, the discussion touches on:

• Understanding and mapping disciple-making ecosystems
• Spiritual growth in complex urban contexts
• The importance of honest conversations (“putting the cat on the table”)
• Why joy, fun, and relational depth are vital for sustainable disciple-making

This episode invites leaders and disciple-makers to rethink how movements grow when complexity, community, and joy are embraced together.