The Very Rev Dr Mark Oakley is Dean of Southwark. He has held many ecclesiastical roles, including Rector of St Paul's Covent Garden, then Chancellor at St Paul's Cathedral. He is deeply interested in poetry, is a prolific writer and has a PhD in English literature. A turning point for Mark as a young minister in his twenties was his work with young men dying from HIV/AIDS. In this conversation we explore the role of poetry and metaphor in Mark's ministry and find surprising resonances between our areas of practice.