Ways to Change the World with Krishnan Guru-Murthy

Known as the Godfather of heavy metal, Black Sabbath guitarist Tony Iommi changed the way the guitar could sound. 

After a factory accident cost him the tips of two fingers, he was told he would never play again. Instead, he built his own prosthetic fingertips, adapted his guitar and developed a darker, heavier sound that would define a new genre. 

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy talks to Tony Iommi about growing up in industrial Birmingham, forming Black Sabbath with Ozzy Osbourne, the riffs that changed rock music and the friendship that endured through decades of break-ups and reunions.

As he releases his latest album From The Dark, he also reflects on Black Sabbath’s emotional final performance with Ozzy, his friend’s death shortly afterwards, and why he’s still making music.

Navi Pillay is a renowned human rights lawyer and the recipient of the 2026 Nobel Peace Prize. Her most recent fight for justice was as Chair of a UN Commission which concluded Israel committed acts of genocide in Gaza.

Pillay’s career emerged out of a struggle against apartheid in South Africa where she was born. She became the first woman to establish a law firm defending apartheid activists and political prisoners, and made headlines in 1973 when she secured legal rights for the imprisoned Nelson Mandela. Pillay later became the first non-white woman judge in South Africa’s High Court. She then went on to serve as judge on the UN-backed International Criminal Tribunal for the genocide in Rwanda. 

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Pillay talks to Krishnan Guru-Murthy about her lifelong fight for justice which has challenged impunity at the highest of levels. Pillay’s award has most recently led to both the US and Israeli leaders condemning the decision and issuing sanctions against the International Criminal Court. The 85-year-old also reflects on what international justice looks like today in a conflict-ridden world increasingly dominated by strong men. 

Simon Armitage believes poetry changes the world not by telling us what to think, but through persuasion, wonder and the possibilities of language.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, the Poet Laureate joins Krishnan Guru-Murthy to discuss his new version of Gilgamesh, a story of friendship, power, loss and immortality that has survived for thousands of years. He reflects on discovering poetry through Ted Hughes, leaving behind his career as a probation officer, writing for moments of national significance, and why the oldest stories can still help us make sense of the world today.

Donald Trump called her a “nasty woman”. In private, he called her “the killer”. Now Chrystia Freeland says the lesson for America’s allies is simple: do not capitulate.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy speaks to the former Canadian Deputy Prime Minister about standing up to Trump, why she believes Ukraine must defeat Putin, and the growing threat to liberal democracy.

Drawing on her new book Unreliable Boyfriend, Freeland explains how the Western alliance fractured, how it could be rebuilt, and why she remains optimistic about the future of democracy.She also reflects on her journey from journalist to politician, growing up in a small Canadian town, and standing up to Trump at the negotiating table.

Anthony Scaramucci is a Wall Street banker, podcaster and former White House communications director who spent just 11 days working for Donald Trump before being fired. Once a Trump supporter, he has since become one of his most vocal critics, and it would seem that the feeling is mutual, with Trump calling him an "unstable 'nut job'" who showed "gross incompetence" during his 11-day tenure. His new book, All the Wrong Moves, looks at the political and economic decisions he believes helped create the anger and populism that transformed American politics.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Scaramucci talks to Krishnan Guru-Murthy about his time inside the Trump White House, why he believes America’s political system needs reform, the role of big money in politics, the impact of China, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the 2008 financial crisis. He also reflects on his Republican identity, why he believes Donald Trump was able to tap into economic and cultural anger, whether the Republican Party can survive Trump, and whether America can find its way back from the political divisions of the last decade.

Alexei Sayle has spent a lifetime mixing comedy with politics, protest and an instinctive suspicion of authority.

Raised in a communist household in Liverpool, he became one of the defining figures of alternative comedy before building a career as a writer, actor and political activist. His latest book, How I’ve Tried to Change the World by Walking Down the Middle of the Street Shouting, looks back at decades of marches, political battles, defeats and moments of hope.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Alexei talks to Krishnan Guru-Murthy about Gaza and Israel, and his feelings on the “genocide” of Palestinians (which Israel denies), his Jewish identity, whether protest actually works, why he remains a Marxist, growing up surrounded by communism and how politics shaped his comedy.

He also reflects on falling out of fashion in the 1990s, his unlikely success on TikTok, why comedy should never become a political lecture and why, after decades of campaigning, he still hasn’t entirely given up on changing the world.

Salman Rushdie is one of the world’s most celebrated writers. But for more than three decades, his life has also been bound up with arguments about freedom of expression, religious extremism and the threat of violence.

In 2022, that violence caught up with him when he was attacked on stage and nearly killed. His wife, the poet and visual artist Rachel Eliza Griffiths, began filming his recovery, creating an extraordinarily intimate record of what followed.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Salman and Rachel Eliza join Krishnan Guru-Murthy to discuss the attack, anger and forgiveness, the power of love, religious fanaticism, free speech and what it means to rebuild a life after trauma. Salman also reflects on returning to fiction with his new book The Eleventh Hour, and on Knife: The Attempted Murder of Salman Rushdie, Alex Gibney’s new documentary built around Rachel Eliza’s remarkable footage of his recovery.

Knife: The Attempted Murder of Salman Rushdie will be released in UK and Irish cinemas at the end of September.

Johnny Marr is one of the most influential guitarists of his generation. As a founding member of The Smiths, his distinctive playing helped create some of the most enduring songs in British music.

He joins Krishnan Guru-Murthy, surrounded by the guitars that have soundtracked more than four decades of his life, including the legendary Gibson ES 355 1960, the Gibson Les Paul Standard 1984, and the Martin D28 1971, as he prepares to let much of his collection go.

They talk about the magic of writing with Morrissey, how The Smiths found their sound, why a new generation is discovering their music, and the strange relationship between musicians and their instruments.

Marr also discusses his new album The Age of Everything, politics, inequality and why he believes so many of the world’s problems come back to “unregulated greed and unfairness”.

The auction "Marr's Guitars: The Johnny Marr Collection" is taking place at Christie's in London on 17th September 2026. 0:00 Introduction and highlights0:45 Johnny Marr on selling his guitar collection3:32 Why Marr wants his guitars to be played, not collected4:45 1960 Gibson ES-355 and “Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now”9:17 Gibson Les Paul: Marr’s most-used Smiths guitar13:46 The Rickenbacker and escaping the blues-rock sound15:54 Rejecting 1970s rock and finding a new guitar sound20:43 How Marr built The Smiths as a guitar band23:20 Writing songs with Morrissey: “It was magic”26:21 Why a new generation is discovering The Smiths29:11 Andy Burnham, Manchester and “Rusholme Ruffians”31:38 The Age of Everything and Marr’s new worldview36:40 Politics, defiance and “reclaiming the world”38:08 Martin D-28: “There Is a Light That Never Goes Out” and The Queen Is Dead40:34 The guitars Marr is keeping and his signature Jaguar42:42 The nine-pickup guitar, Noel Gallagher and Kraftwerk44:42 How Johnny Marr would change the world48:06 Gretsch Super Axe and the earliest Smiths songs49:49 The guitars with the most personal history50:51 “How Soon Is Now?”, “The Headmaster Ritual” and the final guitars

Why are so many men feeling angry, lost and without purpose, and what role do algorithms, AI and the collapse of traditional institutions have in this?

Jon Ronson has spent decades investigating the strange corners of modern life. His new book, The Castle: Adventures in a World of Unraveling Men, begins with his son being lured to a mysterious castle in the US and expands into an investigation of masculinity, internet fame, the manosphere, public shaming and the increasingly extreme incentives of social media.

He joins Krishnan Guru-Murthy to discuss his long-running feud with Graham Linehan, why YouTube can push ordinary people towards increasingly extreme behaviour, the seductive promise of becoming a personal brand, and whether AI threatens our sense of purpose. Jon also reflects on his own search for purpose, the impact of his upbringing, and why he believes the answer lies not online, but in reconnecting with communities in the real world.

This episode contains offensive language. 

More than three decades after publishing The End of History and the Last Man, political scientist Francis Fukuyama is looking back on the ideas that made him famous, and asking whether democracy can still withstand the forces reshaping the world.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy talks to Fukuyama about Donald Trump, the rise of populism, why young men are driving political upheaval across the West, and whether social media has destroyed our shared sense of reality. Through the lens of his new book, In the Realm of the Last Man, they discuss why people are drawn to extreme causes, what Europe should do in a world where America can no longer be relied upon, and whether liberal democracy is entering a period of dangerous turbulence.

Fukuyama also reflects on changing his mind about the Iraq War and free-market economics, the intellectual friendships he lost along the way, and why he believes good thinkers must be willing to abandon ideas when the facts change.