Marketing Tips for Doctors

In this episode, Barbara and Neil discussed the following:

Key Takeaways: 

“Facebook and Instagram and Google, TikTok, LinkedIn ads, all the ad platforms they learn really really quickly, and where the the best leads are, and if you spend $20 per day for five to seven days, you’ll have really good data as to which audiences are working well, which ads are working well, which ones are not, and you can start to make adjustments from there.” – Neil Shoney

Connect with Neil Shoney: 

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

TRANSCRIPT (242)

Chapter 1: Introducing Neil Shoney and the Promise of Scalable Ads 

0:00 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

[0:00:01] Dr. Barbara Hales: Welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales, and today we have with us a very interesting character by the name of Neil Shoney.

Neil is an ad strategist and go-to expert for service-based businesses that want a simple, proven, scalable Facebook ad system that consistently brings in premium clients. With 13 years of running ads and over 3,000 service providers helped, Neil is known for turning complicated advertising into clear, repeatable frameworks that work across different service industries. Because, unlike almost everywhere else you turn, Neil does not believe in a one-size-fits-all approach. After managing high-spend campaigns in the UK and US, Neil shifted into coaching full-time and created a library of 36 proprietary frameworks, including his 25-5 method, that helps service providers install a functioning, profitable ad system in days, not months, that they can turn on or off like a tap, whenever they want new leads. His clients span over 62 niches, with 21 of those niches hitting six-figure months through ads. Welcome to the show, Neil. 

[0:01:44] Neil Shoney: Thanks much for having me, Barbara. Appreciate you. 

[0:01:47] Dr. Barbara Hales: Could you explain the 255 method? 

Chapter 2: The 255 Method—Two Campaigns, Five Audiences, Five Ads 

1:51 | Neil Shoney 

[0:01:51] Neil Shoney: Sure. The 255 method is at the heart of it, just a testing method for running advertising. So the majority of the time when a practice runs advertising through Facebook and Instagram or any other ad platform for that matter, they typically run what I call a one-one-one method. That is one campaign going to one audience with one ad, and there’ll definitely be people listening right now who are just like nodding along with bigger eyes, going, “That is exactly what I’m doing right now. I see it all the time, and what you have in that situation is you’ve basically taken your best guess at every single step of creating that campaign. So you’ve written the ad copy, and you’ve hoped that it’s going to be great.

You’ve chosen your image or your video, and you hope that it’s going to be great. You’ve chosen your audience, and you hope that it’s going to be the right one. But with the Shony 255 method, we do it this way: first, we run two campaigns rather than one. First of all, you’ve already doubled your chance of finding a winner because not both of them have to be winners. You can find a winner and a loser, and then put all your eggs into one winning basket. Those two campaigns that we split out-one is for warm, and one is for cold. That’s people who know who you are and people who don’t know who you are. That’s the first step that a lot of practices get wrong. They only target people who have never heard of them before, who may not even be in the market, and yet you could put a very small amount of ad spend behind people who have already visited your social media pages, your website, etc., and simply get back in front of those people and have really, really high conversion rates.

The first step there is two campaigns rather than one. The second step of the 255 method is where the first five comes in, and that’s five audiences rather than one. And so, quite simply, instead of, you know, saying people interested in this one thing and taking your best guess, you get the great opportunity to choose five different interests that somebody might have, or five different demographic targeting tools that we can choose from, and you don’t have to be right 100% of the time. You actually only need to be right once out of the five. Now, when we set this up, we hope that all five are fantastic. That’s great for scale. But if four of them are, you know, they just don’t work. That’s absolutely fine. We can turn off those audiences. We found our winner, and we can push all the budget towards the winner. And then the final step of the 255 method is the final five: having five ads rather than just one. And there are two reasons for this.

Number one is it’s also great to find winners and losers inside your ads, and you know the things that don’t work. You can turn them off. People never have to see them ever again, and you can push all the budget towards the winners. But there’s a second reason as well, and you’ve probably experienced this yourself, Barbara, and so will so many people who are listening right now. Is that you show any level of interest in something that you see via an ad? You might not even click through to the website, but if you stop scrolling, you hit the see more button, you read it, or you watch the video, and then you start seeing the ad over and over and over again. That’s Facebook basically saying this person is interested in this, but they didn’t take the action that the advertiser wanted them to take, which is to click through, request a callback, book an appointment, whatever it may be. Now, if you set up your ads the way that 98% of people do, a 111 campaign, then Facebook’s only option is to show the same ad to the same person over and over and over again, but if you have five ads, they’ll show them ad number two, then ad number three, then ad number four, and it helps to re-engage people and get more people to take action. 

[0:05:53] Neil Shoney: So it’s a testing method to find winners and losers, and rather than just, you know, throwing something against the wall, and it’s either going to stick or it’s not. It gives you a much higher probability of running a successful campaign. Mathematically, there are 50 variations there, so there’s 50 chances to find a winning variation, and it allows for a lot of scalability because if you have multiple audiences that become successful and multiple ads that are successful, then there’s a lot of opportunity to increase the spend on the front end to get much more out the other side. 

[0:06:27] Dr. Barbara Hales: What a great idea! So, do the clients get charged by Facebook for someone clicking on View More, or only if they click through? 

Chapter 3: How Facebook Bills and Neil’s Origin Story with Ads 

6:45 | Neil Shoney 

[0:06:45] Neil Shoney: Actually, with Facebook and Instagram, the way that it works is you’re charged per 1000 views, so it’s not charged based upon clicks and not clicks and things like that. As Google says, they are cost per click, and you know you’re charged whenever somebody clicks on the ad; technically, Google is still doing cost per 1000 views. They’re just choosing to send the billing notification once somebody has clicked. So it’s smart marketing on their side because they get to say You only pay if somebody clicks. People are going to click, so you’re going to pay anyway. But with Facebook, they have a cost per 1000 views, which is different for everybody. It depends on the ad, how many people you’re targeting, and who’s inside those audiences. But technically, you know, you set a daily budget, so it could be $10 a day, it could be $100 a day, it could be $1,000 a day, depend upon the size of the business, and you’re going to most likely spend what you set as a budget, as long as there’s a big enough audience there for Facebook to target. 

[0:07:47] Dr. Barbara Hales: How did you get into this originally? 

[0:07:50] Neil Shoney: Well, I actually 1314 years ago, something like that. I started Scotland’s biggest ever health and fitness exhibition, and I came straight out of university. I’d studied sport and exercise science. I always knew I was going to be entrepreneurial, and I just thought everybody would buy into my idea: a huge event at Scotland’s biggest venue, with a break-even of about 4,000 tickets needing to be sold for the weekend. I just thought that everybody would hear about it and think it would be incredible, and I ended up signing my life away with no money in the bank, hundreds of 1000s of pounds, or hundreds of 1000s of dollars, I should say, of contracts to be able to put on this massive show. And about five months into advertising, we’d sold around, you know, 50 tickets at $12.50 

[0:08:48] Dr. Barbara Hales: That’s pretty scary. 

[0:08:50] Neil Shoney: Yeah, it was pretty scary. We were about four and a half months out from the show itself, and everybody was knocking their doors down for outstanding invoices and different things, and to be honest, going to Facebook ads was like a last roll of the dice. I’d already done everything that everybody does in the marketing space when they’re bootstrapping, which is posting lots on social media, cold outreach, finding email addresses on Google, sending emails to personal trainers and all sorts. No matter how hard I worked, nothing was clicking. And when I ran Facebook ads, I ended up doing something very similar to the Shony 255 method. And I think it was just a bit of luck that I went down that route of being like, “Oh, I can test out different audiences.

I can test out different ads. That’s how that feels safer. So I just did that. That was the way that I set them up in the first place, and I ended up spending. I think it was around, you know, like $50 or something in the first few days, and I had returned somewhere in the region of I think it was 150 Or $250 something like that, in sales, and it was just this like penny drop moment where I was like, “Wow, I can track how much money I put into this thing, how much money comes out the other side, and if I know how much I need to put in to get something out, something specific out the other side, I can basically choose how many tickets I want to sell, as long as I have the cash flow, of course, to be able to reinvest into the ads, and that’s what we did. And we ended up not just selling, you know, more tickets, but we ended up almost hitting our target for tickets sold four and a half months later. The show was a big success. We ended up scaling it over the next four years, and then selling it to the country’s biggest event organizers. And we never ran TV ads, billboards, or radio advertising, as all of these big exhibitions do. We just ran Facebook ads, and that was it. So I never planned to teach anybody Facebook ads. I just tried to use it to save myself from a terrible situation. 

[0:11:05] Dr. Barbara Hales: Well, what a great story that was. Thank 

[0:11:09] Neil Shoney: you. 

Chapter 4: Google vs. Meta Ads and Leveraging Instagram Targeting 

11:09 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

[0:11:09] Dr. Barbara Hales: When it comes to physicians, is it better for doctors to use Google Ads, Meta Ads, or both? 

[0:11:18] Neil Shoney: I would always lean into Google first if you’re doing cold prospecting. People who don’t know who you are, because of course people are going to go to Google or AI now as well. But Google’s still the frontrunner by a long shot. People are going to go to Google to find the providers that are close to them for the specific problems that they have, and so albeit that Google Ads cost significantly more to get in front of 1000 people, it’s so high intent that if it’s set up correctly, then you end up getting a very high percentage of people who click on your ads going all the way through to creating a booking with Facebook, the the next best step, or Facebook and Instagram, we should probably talk about them collectively because it’s the same ad platform. The best thing you can do if you’re on a low budget and you’re sort of just starting out with advertising for your practice is use it first and foremost for remarketing, so you can take your Facebook pixel and drop it onto your website.

You can also create audiences of anybody that visits your Facebook or Instagram page, which some people may do before deciding to book with you as well. And we can create these audiences of people that already know who you are, and we can advertise to those people. And so, if you wanted to make the best use of your ad dollars, it would be Google first. It would be Facebook remarketing second, and then I would use Facebook and Instagram more broadly for cold traffic as your third step. So that would be once you already feel that you’ve already significantly scaled the first two; that’s where you go to find more customers at scale. 

[0:13:12] Dr. Barbara Hales: When someone advertises on Facebook, does it automatically go to Instagram as well, or do you have to request that? No, 

[0:13:20] Neil Shoney: No, automatically. You would actually have to uncheck some boxes to stop it happening. 

[0:13:26] Dr. Barbara Hales: Why would you want to? 

[0:13:27] Neil Shoney: No, you wouldn’t. 

[0:13:31] Dr. Barbara Hales: And people on Instagram would see the ads even if they don’t follow you. 

[0:13:36] Neil Shoney: Yes, absolutely. So anybody who is within your targeting can see your ads, so you can target people based upon, of course, age, gender, location. Which, of course, location is going to be very important for local practices. But you can also do some targeting based around certain things like their interests, and you know some things as well, like you can target people based upon not just whether they’re a parent or not. You can target them based upon how old their kids are. Like Facebook has a lot of data, and it feels accurate, and there’s a lot that you can do with the targeting tools. 

Chapter 5: Budgets, Metrics, and Warm vs. Cold Campaign Strategy 

14:19 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

[0:14:19] Dr. Barbara Hales: Well, that’s a great idea. When a physician is considering ads, let’s say it’s a new practice, or he is providing a new service or a product that he didn’t have before, what do you advise them to spend on a daily basis for their budget? 

[0:14:39] Neil Shoney: So I actually suggest that everybody starts at just around $20 per day with any campaign, and that may sound to some people like, oh, it’s just plain small. The reason I say $20 per day is because Facebook, Instagram, Google-they learn so quickly. If you’ve ever been told by an agency the reason.

The reason that you’re not getting results is that you’ve not spent enough, or because Facebook and Instagram take a really long time to learn. It’s actually their calling card: they don’t know how to get you results. Facebook and Instagram and Google, TikTok, LinkedIn ads, all the ad platforms they learn really really quickly, and where the the best leads are, and if you spend $20 per day for five to seven days, you’ll have really good data as to which audiences are working well, which ads are working well, which ones are not, and you can start to make adjustments from there. As soon as you have a positive ROI, that is the point at which we start the scaling process. So we don’t go with the mindset of your budget for the month is you know $2,000 So let’s figure out how much we need to spend per day to spend $2,000 The target’s not to spend $2,000 The target’s to find winners that bring in more revenue than you spend, and then you can start to scale towards spending $2,000 and that that’s the safest way to do 

[0:16:08] Dr. Barbara Hales: it. How can you differentiate between not getting responses because people aren’t interested in you versus it just not being a good ad that needs to be changed? 

[0:16:19] Neil Shoney: Yeah, well, there’s a couple of things. There, there’s a million different stats on the Facebook Ads dashboard, but there’s one that most people don’t even know exists. But it’s actually almost the tell-all of whether the ad is resonating with people or if it’s a landing page issue, like getting people to take action when they actually get to your website, and that is link click-through rate. So there are two.

There’s one that’s just click-through rate, and there’s one that’s link click-through rate. That one is what percentage of the people who see your ads actually click the button to go to your website, right? So it’s not, you know, hitting the like button, commenting, or seeing more. That’s click-through rate. Link click-through rate, however, is people actually clicking to leave Facebook after they’ve read your ad. Now, if it’s over 1%, we typically say there’s nothing wrong with the ads. The ads are doing their job. It’s getting people to stop scrolling, to read, and to leave Facebook. If you’re not getting inquiries on the next page, we then focus on the page and how do we get more people to take action there? If, on the other hand, you’ve got an ad that is, you know, 0.5%, then we’re quite far off where we need to be in terms of the link click-through rate. Then that’s when I would look at the advert itself and say, how do we get more people’s attention? How do we get more people to take action from the ad? 

[0:17:53] Dr. Barbara Hales: Are ads best for cold prospecting or remarketing to people who hit my website? If both, how can this be maximized for the biggest ROIs? 

[0:18:07] Neil Shoney: Well, both of them have their place in terms of what we would want anybody to be running. You know, like one month after working with us, for instance, we would want everybody to be running both, because there’s your warm campaign, your remarketing, which is fantastic for a small spend and a high ROI. That’s amazing, but there’s only so many people in there, so there’s only so far you can scale with that. And once you’ve kind of maximized that side of things, if you want to grow faster and acquire clients faster, you have to go out into the cold market. You have to go out and find more customers that may be out there. So, in terms of what’s more important, I suppose to start off, if you’re not advertising at all right now, I would say the warm side of things, the remarketing. But if you’re really serious about scaling, then both of them are very important to make scale happen as quickly as possible. 

Chapter 6: Small Budgets, Getting Help, and Choosing the Right Ads Expert 

19:12 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

[0:19:12] Dr. Barbara Hales: What would you say to someone who says to you, you know, I don’t really have a budget, you know, so I haven’t been advertising, and you know, is it worth it? You know, is it definitely going to work, or am I just going to be throwing money in the air? 

[0:19:28] Neil Shoney: Well, a couple of things. The first thing is, you don’t have to start off with a high budget, like I was saying. You can start at a small budget. You can see what happens with the ads. Just like my story with the events business 14 years ago: if it hadn’t worked, if I hadn’t sold tickets in that first week or a week or two weeks, I wouldn’t have continued spending money on it. But because I spent a small amount of money and made significantly more back, it gave me the opportunity to scale into that thing. The second thing is don’t go into it without some sort of guidance. And I don’t even mean that you need to work with somebody like me. Like you can go onto YouTube. Like you can go onto YouTube and at least get some tips and direction around how to do certain things, like for instance, some people right now will be going.

How do I set up warm retargeting? How do I set up these warm audiences? I’ve literally got a YouTube video inside the ads dashboard where I set them all up. So, like you, you don’t have to go into this completely blindly, even if you don’t want to invest in, you know, courses and agencies and things like that. So do some research. Don’t just throw something against the wall and then determine that it doesn’t work. There are things that need to happen to make advertising successful, but a lot of it’s out there on YouTube. 

[0:20:56] Dr. Barbara Hales: As a doctor, if I was looking for somebody to just do it, I didn’t want to get involved. I just want them to do it. How? What criteria do I use to pick the right one? How do I recognize who is you know going to do it for me versus someone who you know read a course last weekend and doesn’t really keep doing? 

[0:21:18] Neil Shoney: Well, track records are really a really big thing. How long have they been doing it? It’s a massive one. So I mean, we have just an absolute crazy amount of testimonial videos, and if anybody ever goes through, like, my Instagram or whatever, every few days it’s another testimonial video or something that a client sent us or whatever it may be, and we’ve done that for like 10 years here, just like churning it out. So when you go on our landing pages, it’s sometimes like 120 videos that are on that page. So, like, what type of results have they got for clients is number one, but the second one is how long have they been doing this for? And the reason why that’s so important is Facebook and Instagram are changing all the time, and so if they only had the ability to be able to run advertising successfully in a pocket of time, when they had a system that worked with the Facebook algorithm today, for instance, as soon as Facebook announces two months from now that they’ve changed the algorithm, are they going to be savvy enough to be able to do the appropriate testing to figure out how to continue having their clients win in the new environment? So time in the game is also as important as the results that they’ve been getting most recently. 

[0:22:37] Dr. Barbara Hales: It does seem so unfair, though, that you know, like if we catch your game, you’re going to change it. 

Chapter 7: Regaining Targeting Control, Video Tips, and How to Reach Neil 

22:41 | Neil Shoney 

[0:22:41] Neil Shoney: Yeah, they do it all the time, and they’ll always tell you that it’s because they want to help you. They don’t. They want to find plenty of ways to get you to spend more money. So that’s what the most recent algorithm update was all about. It was, hey, you don’t need to think about targeting anymore. Just let us choose the targeting, and we’ll find the right people for you, and that’s going to really help you get results. It hasn’t played out like that at all. What it turns out is that Facebook has lots of inventory for people you’re not trying to get in front of, and now they have permission from you to spend all of your ad dollars on those inverted commas, low-quality leads, if you will. So there are ways that you can take back control of your ads. There’s a button. This is probably one of the best tips I can give anybody on this podcast, by the way, because a lot of you are running localized businesses. So there are two big reasons. 

[0:23:42] Dr. Barbara Hales: Okay, because the next question I have for you, so you could put it in there, is for someone that is, you know, has heard you and said, okay, you’ve convinced me. I’m going to dip my toe in the waters. What are two helpful tips that you could give to our listeners that they could implement right away? 

[0:24:04] Neil Shoney: So this is the biggest one for anybody that runs a localized business in general, which is when you’re setting up your adverts, and you get to the second step. There are only three steps: campaign, ad set, and, for ease of understanding, that’s your audience who is going to get to see your ad. And then there’s a third step, which is setting up the ad itself. That’s the thing people are going to see. That middle step, right now, it looks like there’s not too much that you can do there. You set a minimum age. You don’t set too much targeting in terms of locations; you can technically set a locational target in there, but it feels like you are being relatively pinpoint about who is going to get to see your ads. But you’re not.

What is actually happening there is you are giving face. A suggestion, and that is very dangerous for a local business, because when you say I specifically work with women between the ages of 30-five and 50-five in this 10-mile radius, they can show 20% of your your ads to men, and they can show another 20% of your ads to 18-year-olds and 70-two year olds, and they can also show your ads outside of that 10-mile radius. But there’s one button at the bottom of the page that you’ll see, which says “Further limit the reach of my ads.

The wording is almost comical because it’s like, how much do they not want you to hit that button, right? So that they just can spend your ad dollars however they wish, right? But if you click on that button, it gives you the ability to go into everything I just said there: gender, location, age, and uncheck a box that says “use as a suggestion. When you do that, you take back pinpoint control over who can see your ads, and for local businesses, you might even find that it raises your cost per lead. Right, that’s not a bad thing, because what is the point in having low-cost leads if there are a bunch of people who can never work with you, who can never walk through your doors? So it’s not always that it’s more expensive. I’m just saying that technically it could happen, but I would rather have great leads, great quality, my target demographic, than a whole bunch of leads that would never buy from me. So that’s really important. The second thing is for these types of businesses, video is really powerful, and it doesn’t even need to be, you know, really high-quality video with transitions and a filming crew. I mean, it can just quite simply be a little bit of B-roll of, you know, somebody in the practice, which can obviously be set up. It’s not like you have to start recording your sessions, but just having that type of B-roll catches people’s attention. There is a great place for images inside your five ads, but videos work really, really well for localized businesses and service-based businesses. 

[0:27:21] Dr. Barbara Hales: Well, those are really both great bits of advice. The next question I have is for someone that wants to take a course from you or get advice from you. How can they reach you? 

[0:27:34] Neil Shoney: Well, there are a couple of ways. The first way is to quite simply go to Instagram and go to Neil Shoney Ads. So it looks like “Neil’s Honey Ads,” unfortunately, the way it sounds. But it’s Neil Shoni ads, all one word. And you can get loads of tips there and different things via the link in my bio. There’s a five-minute video that walks you through our whole system and how we work with clients. Or you could just send me a message there directly, or you can email me at [email protected] or [email protected] if you want to sign up that way, and yeah, we can have a quick conversation from there. 

[0:28:17] Dr. Barbara Hales: Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I really found this, you know, very educational. I’ve learned a lot. I feel like I know more, and I’m sure other listeners feel that same way. Thank you so much. 

[0:28:31] Neil Shoney: Appreciate you. Thank you, Barbara. 

[0:28:33] Dr. Barbara Hales: This has been another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors with your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Till next time. 

In this episode, Barbara discusses: 

Key Takeaways: 

“Whenever you hear an extraordinary claim, don’t rush to an extraordinary conclusion. Take a breath, look at the evidence, and let’s think this through together.” 

Connect with Barbara Hales: 

TRANSCRIPTION (247)

 Is This Really a Miracle Cure? Framing the Question 

0:00 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

Grab your coffee or tea, or whatever keeps you going today. I have mine. I’m Dr. Barbara Hales. And welcome to Marketing Tips for Doctors, the podcast where we help physicians build stronger practices, attract better patients, and enjoy medicine again.

Today, we’re asking a question that has physicians and patients asking, Is this really a miracle cure? This has been on my mind lately. You know, a few weeks ago someone asked me about a product and wanted to know what I thought. They asked me, Barbara, is this a miracle cure? Now I know I could have answered their question. Instead, I asked them one of my own. I said, ” Let’s think this through together, because I realized something. The important question wasn’t whether I liked the product. The important question was, how do we decide? How do we separate excitement from evidence? How do we decide whether something is truly a breakthrough or simply a really good marketing campaign? Now, before we go any further, let me make something very clear.

This episode isn’t about criticizing any particular product; it isn’t about criticizing supplements, medications, or innovation. Quite the opposite. I love innovation. If someone discovers something that genuinely helps my patients live longer, healthier lives. I’m going to be the first one celebrating. Woo hoo! Medicine has always moved forward because someone was willing to ask “what if.” Thank goodness they did. Otherwise, we’d still be practicing medicine the way it was practiced 100 years ago, but medicine has also advanced because someone asked another question. How do we know? To me, those are two of the most important questions in medicine: what if, and how do we know now? If you’re anything like me, you’ve probably noticed that every few months there’s another headline, another breakthrough, another product, another celebrity endorsement, another video that promises to change everything we thought we knew. Sometimes they’re fascinating, sometimes they’re exciting, and every once in a while, they’re absolutely right. But here’s where my brain goes: not Is it true? Not yet. The first thing I ask myself is, how do we know it’s true? There’s a difference, you know. Patients ask us questions every single day; that’s what they’ve always done. Years ago, they came into the office carrying newspaper clippings. Then it was magazine articles. Then they started bringing pages they printed from the internet. Now they come in talking about something they watched on YouTube or social media; the technology has changed. People haven’t. They’re still looking for hope. They’re still looking for answers, and honestly, I don’t fault them one bit. If someone I loved was sick, I’d be looking too. Wouldn’t you? 

 Respecting Patients’ Effort and Preparing for Conversations 

3:30 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

One of the things I’ve always told my patients is this: if there’s something you really want to discuss, send it to me about two weeks before your appointment. Put a little Post-it note on it that says I would like to talk about this along with the date and time of your appointment. Do you know why? Because I want to respect the f. Are made if they took the time to read something or watch something. The least I can do is take the time to look at it before they come in.

Our office appointments are busy enough as they are, trying to review an article, evaluate the evidence, answer questions, and still take care of everything else during a 15- or 20-minute visit. That’s not fair to the patient, and it’s certainly not fair to the topic. I’d rather be prepared. Then, when they come into the office, we can have a meaningful conversation. I’ve found that patients really appreciate that, and honestly, I think they deserve that. Now, let me ask you something. Have you ever had a patient ask you about a product and quietly thought to yourself, I’ve never even heard of this? I think every physician has, and you know what, that’s okay. Somewhere along the way, I think we started believing that physicians were supposed to know everything, every medication, every supplement, every new device, every AI tool, every study, every impossible headline. Medicine changes too quickly. 1000s of studies are published every year. New products come onto the market constantly. No one can know all of it, and I actually think saying that’s an interesting question. 

 “I Don’t Know Yet” and the Power of Good Questions 

06:50 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

Let me investigate it and get back to you builds more trust, not less. Patients don’t expect me to know everything; they expect me to care enough to find the right answer for them. There’s a big difference. So, if someone asks me, Barbara, is this a miracle cure? My answer is I don’t know yet, but I know exactly where I’d begin, and that’s what I’d like to share with you today, not because I have all the answers, I certainly don’t, but because over the years I’ve realized my brain tends to ask the same questions every time I hear an extraordinary medical claim, I never sat down and made a checklist. It’s just where my brain goes. Maybe some of those questions will become part of the way you think, too.

So, grab another sip of coffee and let’s think this through together. Where does my mind go first? Well, probably not where you think. The first thing I ask myself isn’t, ‘Does it work? The first thing I ask myself is, ‘What’s the actual claim? Now that may sound almost too simple, but you’d be surprised how often we skip over that part. We hear words like breakthrough, scientifically proven, clinically tested, doctor-recommended, and before we know it, we’ve become excited without ever stopping to ask, wait a minute, what are they saying? Are they saying it supports healthy blood pressure, improves circulation, helps maintain healthy arteries, or are they claiming it prevents disease? Those are very different statements. Words matter.

As physicians, we know that. Then my mind goes somewhere else. I ask myself, does that make biological sense? Notice, I’m not asking whether it’s true, not yet. I’m simply asking whether there’s a reasonable explanation for why it might work. Sometimes there is; sometimes there isn’t; and sometimes the answer is that we just don’t know yet. I’m perfectly comfortable with that answer. Medicine has always been a journey of learning. There are things we believe today that we’ll probably look at differently 10 years from now, and there are ideas that were dismissed years ago that eventually became accepted because the evidence caught up. Yeah, that’s one of the things I love about medicine. We’re allowed to change our minds when the evidence changes. 

 Studying the Actual Product and Asking, “Compared to What?” 

10:00 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

Now, here’s where I think we sometimes get into trouble. We fall in love with an idea before we fall in love with the evidence. Have you ever done that? I have. You read something; it sounds logical, sounds exciting. You start thinking about all the patients it could help, then six months later, a year later, more studies come out, and suddenly the picture isn’t nearly as clear as you thought it was. If you’re anything like me, you’ve lived through that more than once. It certainly taught me something. It taught me not to become emotionally attached to a headline. It taught me to become attached to the process. Now, here’s another question that always pops into my head. Has this product actually been studied? Notice, I did not say that one of the ingredients has been studied. Those aren’t the same thing.

Let’s say a product contains five different ingredients; maybe one of those ingredients has strong research backing. Wonderful, but that doesn’t automatically tell me what happens when all five are combined. Dosages matter, formulations matter, interactions matter. That’s why I always want to know: has the actual product been evaluated? Then I ask, compared to what? Compared to doing nothing? Compared to a placebo? Compared to another treatment? Compared to lifestyle changes, because saying something works without telling me what it’s being compared to really doesn’t tell me very much at all. Now, if you’re anything like me, you’re probably thinking, Barbara, this sounds like a lot of work. Sometimes it is, but here’s the interesting thing. After you’ve practiced medicine for a while, you don’t consciously go through this list. It just becomes the way you think. At least that’s what happened to me. I don’t sit down with a checklist. My brain simply starts asking questions. 

 Who’s Talking, Humility in Medicine, and Not Skipping the Process 

13:15 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

Here’s another one, and I think it’s an important one. Who’s talking now? Don’t misunderstand me. Credentials matter, experience matters, expertise matters. If someone has spent 30 years studying a particular field, I’m going to listen very carefully, but I don’t stop there, because even brilliant people can disagree. We’ve all seen it. That’s not a weakness in medicine; that’s one of its strengths. Ideas are challenged, evidence is questioned, and studies are repeated. That’s how we get closer to the truth. You know, one of the things I enjoy most about practicing medicine is that it keeps us humble.

Every physician has been wrong, every physician has changed their mind, every physician has looked back and said, if I knew then what I know now, that’s not failure, that’s growth and honesty, not exactly what I hope my patients want from me, not someone who pretends to know everything, but someone who’s willing to keep learning. So, by this point, you may be wondering, Barbara, are you against supplements? No, not at all. Some supplements have strong evidence supporting them.

Some medications have excellent evidence. Some lifestyle interventions have strong evidence, and others simply need more research. I’m not against new ideas. I’m against skipping the process; there’s a big difference, and maybe that’s the biggest point I’d like to make today. I don’t want physicians to become cynical. I don’t want patients to become cynical either. Curiosity is a wonderful thing. Hope is a wonderful thing. Innovation is a wonderful thing. I never want to lose those. What I do want is to slow down just enough to ask a few really good questions, because in my experience, good questions usually lead to good decisions. 

 Stories, Ethical Marketing, and Slowing Down Urgent Claims 

17:30 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

Speaking of questions, there are a few things that immediately make me slow down, not because I think something is wrong, but because I think it’s worth looking a little more closely. Let’s talk about those. What are the things that make me slow down? I don’t call them warning signs; I don’t even call them red flags; I simply think of them as little reminders to ask one more question. The first one is this: whenever I hear an extraordinary claim, I expect extraordinary evidence. Now, that doesn’t mean I dismiss it, not at all. It simply means that if someone tells me one product can solve half a dozen unrelated problems. My curiosity goes up, not down.

The bigger the promise, the more carefully I want to look at the evidence behind it. Here’s another thing I’ve noticed: whenever someone says doctors don’t want you to know this, I always smile. I’ve spent my entire career around physicians. I’ve worked with 1000s of them. I’ve never met one who got up in the morning and thought, how can I keep my patients from getting better today? That’s just not who doctors are. Most physicians I know spend their careers looking for better treatments, better outcomes, better ways to help people. If something truly works, believe me, doctors want to know about it. Now, here’s another thought. Stories, stories are powerful. You’ve heard several from me before. Stories help us remember, stories help us connect, stories remind us that medicine is about people, not just statistics, but stories have limits. One person’s experience, even a wonderful experience, doesn’t necessarily tell us what will happen for everyone else. It tells us what happened to one person; that’s important, but it’s different from asking what happens when hundreds or 1000s of people try something. That’s where good research becomes so valuable.

Stories and science are not enemies; they simply answer different questions. You know this. This reminds me of something that happened repeatedly in my practice. Patients would come into the office and say, Dr. Hales, I read this article, or I saw this on television, or today I watched this video online, and I loved that. I really did. It told me they cared about their health. They were trying to learn, they were asking questions, they were engaging. I never wanted to discourage that, but I also knew we couldn’t do justice to a complicated topic in the last three minutes of an office visit, so I started telling my patients something I would say, if there’s something you’d really like us to discuss, send it to me two weeks before your appointment, put a little post-it note on it that says I’d like to talk about this, along with the date and time of your appointment, that gave me time to read it, time to look at the references, time to ask my own questions. Then, when the patient came in, we were both prepared. Instead of giving them a quick opinion, I could give them a thoughtful one, and, you know what, patients appreciated knowing I was taking their question seriously. Can I share something else with you?

Over the years, I’ve had physicians tell me, Barbara, I don’t market my practice because I don’t think. Marketing is unethical. I always smile. Then I ask them a question. So, let me see if I understand this correctly. You are willing to tell people what you do and what your products and services are, but you’re going to keep your office location a secret, which usually gets a laugh. Then I continue, or maybe you’ll tell everyone where your office is, but you’re going to keep what you do a secret, of course. Not marketing isn’t the problem. Bad marketing is the problem to me. Marketing is simply telling people who you help, what you do, and where they can find you. That’s all. Now, how you do it, that’s where ethics comes in. Ethical marketing tells the truth; it doesn’t exaggerate, it doesn’t promise what it cannot deliver, and it certainly doesn’t try to replace evidence with emotion. That’s true, whether you’re talking about a medical practice or a medical product. Now, here’s something else I think about. Have you ever noticed how often advertisements try to make us feel like we have to decide immediately, limited time, only a few left? Act now. Whenever someone tries to rush my decision, I intentionally slow it down because very few good medical decisions get worse after you’ve had time to think; if anything, they usually improve. Now, don’t misunderstand me, I’m not suggesting that every exciting claim is wrong; far from it, some of today’s standard treatments were once considered radical ideas. Medicine advances because people are willing to challenge conventional thinking. We need people asking new questions. We need researchers exploring new possibilities. What we don’t need is to stop asking questions once the marketing begins. 

Staying Curious, Staying Humble, and Choosing Thoughtful Answers 

21:30 | Dr. Barbara Hales 

If you’re anything like me, you’ve probably noticed something else. Patients today have access to more medical information than ever before; that’s a wonderful thing, but they also have access to more misinformation than ever before. Sometimes those two are mixed so well it’s hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. That’s why I believe physicians have become even more important, not because we’re the only source of information- we’re not- but because we’ve been trained to evaluate information. Those are two very different things, and that’s really what this conversation has been about, not whether one product is good or another product is bad. It’s about developing the habit of asking good questions before making important decisions, because when we do that, we’re serving our patients, ourselves, and our profession, you know.

When I first started thinking about this episode, I thought it would be about one product. It isn’t. It really isn’t. It’s about something much bigger. It’s about how we think, and maybe that’s one of the most important things we can do as physicians, not just collecting information, but evaluating it. I’ve often said that medicine is both an art and a science. Science gives us evidence; art teaches us how to apply that evidence to the person sitting in front of us. Neither one works very well without the other. If there’s one thing I’d love for you to remember from today’s conversation, it’s this: you don’t have to know everything. None of us does. The longer I’ve practiced medicine, the more comfortable I’ve become saying That’s an interesting question. Let me look into it. Let’s see what the evidence actually says. Years ago, I might have felt pressure to have an immediate answer.

Today, I think patients deserve something better than an immediate answer. They deserve a thoughtful answer. Sometimes that takes a little time, and I think that’s okay. You know, one of the things I’ve always loved about medicine is that it keeps us humble. Every physician has been surprised, every physician has had to change an opinion, every physician has learned something they did not know before. That’s not a weakness; that’s one of the greatest strengths of our profession. Science keeps moving, and if we’re in good positions, we move with it. So, the next time someone asks you, Doctor, what do you think about this, I hope you’ll remember today’s conversation, not because I expect you to have the same opinion I do; I don’t. In fact, I hope you continue to ask your own questions, read your own studies, and think things through for yourself. That’s exactly what a good physician does. And if you’re a patient watching today, I’d like to leave you with one thought: keep asking questions, bring articles to your doctor, tell them about the videos you’ve watched, and share what you’ve learned. Those conversations are valuable. Just remember, medicine is rarely as simple as a 32nd commercial or a 62nd social media video.

The best decisions usually come from a conversation, not a headline. You know, I think that’s why I enjoy doing this podcast so much: it gives us a chance to have conversations we rarely have time for during a busy office day, no interruptions, no waiting room full of patients, just two colleagues or maybe a physician and a patient thinking something through together, and honestly, I wish we had more opportunities to do that. If today’s conversation made you stop and think, if it gave you a different way to evaluate the next exciting medical claim that comes across your desk, or your computer screen or your phone, then I hope you’ll join me again next week, because every week here on Marketing Tips for Doctors we have conversations about medicine, marketing, communication, practice growth, and the challenges physicians face every single day.

My goal is always the same: to help physicians attract better patients, build stronger practices, and enjoy medicine again. If that’s the kind of future you want, I’d love to have you as part of this community, so please take a moment to subscribe, not just because it helps the channel, but because every week we’ll continue having conversations that can make a real difference in your practice, and maybe even remind you why you chose medicine in the first place, and if you will know if you know another physician who would enjoy today’s discussion, please share it with them. I have a feeling it’ll start some interesting conversations, and if you’re a member of the community, you could drop us a note or a comment as to what topics you would like to cover next.

Until next time, keep asking good questions, stay curious, stay humble, and whenever you hear an extraordinary claim, don’t rush to an extraordinary conclusion. Take a breath, look at the evidence, and let’s think this through together. I’ll see you next week. This has been Dr. Barbara Hales with Marketing Tips for Doctors. 

In this episode, Barbara and David discuss: 

Key Takeaways: 

“Culture is everything, and communicating that culture and building it with and for your employees is really critical.” 

Connect with David Mastovich: 

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

TRANSCRIPTION (246)

Chapter 1: Introduction & Guest Overview 

Narrator [0:00:02]: Paul, welcome to the Marketing Tips for Doctors podcast, where you’ll discover the secrets to attracting more patients ready to schedule their first appointments to grow your practice without spending hours and hours away from your practice or home. Hear how to boost your online presence, develop a strong rapport with each patient to increase patient compliance, and add value while growing revenue. Now, here’s your host, Dr. Barbara Hales, America’s leading medical strategist. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:00:32]: Welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales, and today we have a really special guest with us, by the name of David Mastovich. Dave is the CEO and founder of Mass Solutions, and you will find the contact information and more about the company in the show notes. He is a consultant who drives growth in revenue, recruiting, retention, and results. He is the author of No Bullshit Marketing, a number one bestseller, and host of the long-running No Bullshit Marketing show, Easy to Remember. He turns data, behavior, and patterns into practical actions and stories leaders can use to transform their organizations. Earlier in his career at UPMC, Dave’s marketing leadership helped grow the system’s revenue from under 1 billion to 10 billion. Today, he brings that same mix of cognitive science and real-world execution to help organizations strengthen culture, increase enterprise value, and accelerate performance. Welcome to the show, Dave. 

David Mastovich [0:01:57]: Thanks for having me, Barbara. I’m really excited to be here. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:01:59]: Tell us about the six target markets that matter to physician practices. 

Chapter 2: Six Target Markets & Culture / Retention 

David Mastovich [0:02:05]: Thanks. Great question. It comes down to the fact that we often don’t realize the various target markets out there, so some of the ones I tell you about will be neglected. They’re neglected right now, and they’ll become obvious and say, “Whoa, I have been neglecting them. But first and foremost, it’s actually current patients, and I think that’s sometimes neglected a little bit, because you have an opportunity to talk to them more than you currently do, and then they become marketers for you. So, I think the first audience is tied to your current patients, the second is the one that everybody knows and targets the most, and that is trying to find new patients, and so that’s the one that everyone will relate to. But then there’s a group called Your Current Employees, and I think we don’t talk to them enough about how they can become a part of the marketing team, and how the culture that kept them is something they should talk about. And then potential employees, because we’re in a field with a lot of turnover and retention issues, and we’re also going through a lot of growth. So, the third and fourth are current and prospective employees, and there needs to be the same rigor in marketing and communication to current and prospective employees as there is for new patients. And then the fifth and sixth are referral sources, so current referral sources and potential referral sources, so all six of those are intertwined, and they make sense, but what ends up happening is we neglect one or two, or we blend them into one, and we just say we’re trying to talk to referral sources, and we don’t break down the art and science of it, and say, okay, here’s our current referral sources, and here’s what they look like, and here’s how many referrals they give, here’s how many they could give. So we try to get them to give more, but then who are the look-alikes that are similar to them that we’re not getting anything from? So that’s how the fifth and sixth ones come into play. So those are the six right-fit target markets for physician practice. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:03:53]: Where so many practices say that once they train people to work as staff members, the next thing they know, the staff have up and quit. Do you have a special secret to retain them? 

David Mastovich [0:04:07]: There’s no magic wand. I wish I did, but I will say that culture is everything, and communicating that culture and building it with and for your employees is really critical. So, where we’ve seen success at companies as large as UPMC, with the 10 billion and now like 20 billion in revenue, all the way down to a physician practice of two physicians and a mid-level practitioner. We’ve gone all the way, everything in between, and we’ve talked about how important it is to convey your cultural story. Why do employees come to work for you? Why do they stay? How long do they stay? What do they love about you, and talk about that to patients, even because patients need to hear that, and current and potential patients need to hear that? Current and potential employees need to hear that, talk about them, and give them positive feedback. All of those things matter, and some of those sound like common sense, but you’d be surprised how often we aren’t. When talking about our employees and our culture to current and potential patients, we also aren’t giving that positive feedback as much because we get so busy, and we don’t tie that back to the culture and say, “You’re living the culture in this way.” I think that’s what I mean by the feedback. The feedback needs to say, ” Hey, here’s a core behavior of the company. We have core values, but we also need to define the core behaviors that show that value in action, and then when it happens, we have to say to that employee, ” You know, our core value is customer service. We have multiple ways to say there are behaviors, and one is going above and beyond by doing whatever it takes to get the patient comfortable. You did that yesterday, Suzanne, when you did x. That’s how you make sure you’re talking to your employees about the culture and making the culture about them. It’s built by and for them. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:05:48]: Do you create a handbook that you give to them when they first start under your employment? 

David Mastovich [0:05:54]: Yes, yes, I think a lot of it comes down to we have an entire system around the retention and recruitment, and it does involve continually having input from the employees on what they see as the core behaviors that show the core value, and then over time you continually update that core handbook, cultural handbook that you have, and you call it a cultural handbook, as opposed to employee handbook. Use your terminology; play to your strengths. If you say we’re all about culture here, and the culture is this, then here are the three or four core values, examples of those core values in action, and core behaviors for each one in our handbook. In addition to the, oh, you have to do this, and we’re off on Thursday, you know, all that stuff that’s in the legalese is what people tend to remember to give, but when you talk about it from a culture standpoint, that’s when you make the most difference, 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:06:42]: That’s great. And also, I noticed that when a person has been working a while, asking them what they recommend to improve what they’re doing and valuing their opinion, as opposed to just giving you, you know, a statement about what they should be doing. I think that they appreciate that you respect them when you value their opinion and your own. 

Chapter 3: Employee Feedback, Surveys & Referrals 

David Mastovich [0:07:14]: Oh, there are two parts that as well, Barbara. So, the first is that they absolutely value you asking for their opinion. The second part of that first part is that you’ll actually hear things you can change and improve, but there’s a second way to do it as well. I recommend that you, everybody, do a quick snapshot survey every year when you talk to your employees, some patients, and some referral sources, using an outside source. It doesn’t have to be a big huge budget buster, but what it does is when you’re talking to an employee from the outside and saying, hey, your employer thought enough of you to have us talk to you, that also elevates you, and then they give their little more frank, both positive, they’re a little more direct on the positive, a little more direct on the constructive feedback with an outside party, so then when you can gather that back together, and even if you only have five employees, 10 employees, you’ll get that feedback, and you can hear ideas of how to improve, but they also appreciate that you talk to them. Then that same survey of patients gets you testimonials, and referral sources get you feedback on why they refer and why they don’t. They don’t say it exactly that way, but if you have a good interviewer and you have a good firm, that’s what our team has been trained on. Each of our team members has been trained to conduct those surveys because we do that for all of our clients across the country, and that’s a way to really get that touch-point in for employees as well. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:08:29]: You don’t find that some of the employees are hesitant, to be honest, for fear of it affecting their employment. 

David Mastovich [0:08:36]: Well, at a really small organization with two or three employees, it’s, it’s going to be a little more challenging, because they know that there’s less chance of anonymity, so with those, we often do it in sometimes in a group setting, and we try to make it less punitive, like as if they’re being less negative, but you can still get that done once you get beyond talking to two or three people, so if you’re a company that has 2530 employees, you can send an all employee survey out, and then we do the interviews as well, and they know that it’s the feedback is then coming multiple ways, the completely anonymous employee survey, and then the qualitative feedback, they know that we’re telling them, hey, we’re not going to say that Suzanne said that statement, and Barbara said this statement, and Dave said that statement, we’re going to come back and say some trends, we’re going to, because what you’ll, what you’ll find, we’ve seen three to four items get mentioned three or four times, and when you’re doing a qualitative survey, that means those are the ones to bring up, and so we can bring those up and combine it with the quantitative piece of the all employee survey that had maybe 10 questions, key is keep it really short, keep it to eight to 10 questions on the email survey, and three or four open-ended questions when you’re talking to them. Then they get the sense they can tell that this is not something you’re going to run and say so and so said this, because you’re saying, like, what’s one thing you’d change, what’s one thing that makes you want to work here. Those kinds of open-ended questions can make a huge difference. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:09:57]: Absolutely, how would you encourage? Urge them to be referral sources, 

David Mastovich [0:10:02]: well, with the with the employees, that there’s multiple things that they can do, they can talk to patients about the positive culture of the organization of the practice, so that’s something we want to get them to feel more comfortable talking about the culture, talk about the core values and the behaviors that exemplify those second thing is we want to get them to where they’re positive enough that they feel look when we go to our Fourth of July get-together here in a little bit, or when it’s around Labor Day, or whatever holiday, we’re going to talk about what we do for a living. It’s almost impossible after we get through the small talk, we end up inevitably saying something, so what do you do, or how’s work? We’d like them to maybe give a positive example, and the more you coach them on that, the more you support them. You get them then talking about you that way, so they’re talking to patients more because we’ve encouraged them to do that. They’re talking about us more in their private lives. We encourage them to do that, and when they get a referral from someone, the follow-up to them and the thank-you for that referral can help that person refer again. If they have someone call with a question, that could be a potential referral source. How they handle that can increase referrals. All of that takes communication from us as leaders, and we can’t just say it once. Saying it once helps a little, but you’ve got to say it repeatedly. You’ve got to recognize when someone does it well and include it in your employee email newsletter. You might put a sign in the break room about it. These are all different ways to get the message out again and again, so employees know they really drive the company’s growth and will be recognized when they exhibit that behavior. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:11:36]: And I would assume that that stands the same way for having them speak to patients about ratings and reviews. 

David Mastovich [0:11:46]: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I think that we have to be really patient because we have to look at ourselves. How often do we do reviews? And I’ll give you a personal example. So, whenever you go, and this is my second book, and you, you learned from doing the first one, and there’s a big gap between it, so the world has changed so much since the first two, and I had some experts that I brought on board to help me with, and they said you need to really talk to your employees, your referral sources, or centers of influence, your clients, your friends, your family, and get them to do reviews. Well, I have to tell you, the average person hasn’t really given a review, and they don’t even know how. My parents didn’t know how to shoot. My brother, my brother’s gonna kill me for saying this. He didn’t use Amazon. I’m like, what? So he didn’t. You can’t just go on to Amazon and give a review. They think it’s fake, then. So he had to get a gift card from Amazon and buy the book, even though I’m his brother and he didn’t know how to do any of that. So we actually built a little PDF that we sent to our clients and everybody on our email newsletter. And I tell this story because we expect reviews to come in so easily when we don’t review much ourselves. We don’t give ratings much ourselves, so we have to be patient and realize that that’s just not a normal train of thought for the average person; they can love your practice and never do that, and it’s nothing malicious. So, there’s a way to coach it. An example I would give is, look what I did with my book. We ended up hitting 100 reviews before the first anniversary, and I will tell you, my book publisher said, I told him I have a goal of getting 100 reviews. He said, he said, yeah, right, Davis. I tell you what, I’ll give you a kicker if you get that. Well, he had to pay that kicker, but the reality is that people don’t get that many, and we got to 100 like three days before the book’s anniversary in one year. So that’s the example I would give you: we went out and talked to everybody we knew, and we didn’t just do one phone call, one email, or one conversation, but we didn’t bag either. We had one official email that went out with a little how-to, and we talked to people when we had the chance. Anybody who talked to me the week before the book, the day before the book, a week after the book, a month after, when I was on a Zoom call, I’d bring it up. These are the things that people listening to your podcast can do. Do they have something that explains how to do a review, and they’re thinking, what again? Go to my brother’s example, my parents’ example. One of my best clients said, ‘Dave, I’ve never given a review. Now, the fact that he told me that took vulnerability, because it’s kind of.. we’re all a little embarrassed when we haven’t done something like that. So I said to him, ‘Don’t worry about it, you’re going to be getting this PDF, and Courtney sent it out to everybody, so if you’re thinking you want more reviews, do something like that. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:14:25]: Okay, so with the next book that you’re going to put out, would you consider having a QR code in there that takes them right to a page where they could then give their opinions? 

David Mastovich [0:14:39]: Absolutely, absolutely, I think that’s good. QR codes are working way more. It’s funny, they’ve gone through this cycle 20 years ago when they came out, and we would push them for clients. The clients thought we were crazy; they didn’t do much. Then they did nothing for a while. Then, 10 years ago, they seemed to come back, only to be an afterthought again. And then the last three or four years, they’re now really common, and we had a client that they had a. Graduation for their career and technical school, and we had QR codes all around saying to go to this QR code, and you can drop your pictures there, because everybody’s taking pictures of themselves with their kids, and, and so we use that, and we had a tremendous response. So, yes, QR codes are really valuable, and I think that practices could do that as well. 

Chapter 4: Storytelling, AI & Referral Source Growth System 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:15:21]: Yes. What do you mean when you say science and math drive the creative art in storytelling? You know, storytelling is just so important these days, but you know, obviously, there has to be some analytics involved. So, could you explain that? 

David Mastovich [0:15:38]: I’ll explain it, particularly for your audience, the healthcare audience, and specifically physician practices, so the art is driven by the science and math. When you do some level of systematic gathering of insights, I gave you examples of qualitative and quantitative research you can do without breaking the bank or the budget. Both of those bring you more science. The math is in taking the time to study your referral sources and patterns, because then you have some math behind it. And the Pareto principle is true: 80% of the outputs come from 20% of the inputs. If you go look at your closet and mine, the 20% of that closet is what we wear 80% of the time, if you look at our meals that we eat, 20% of the stuff in our kitchen is what we eat 80% of the time. It is human nature. So, 80% of your referrals will come from 20% of your referral sources. So, if you haven’t done that math and looked at that for real, your gut instincts are going to be right on for many of them, but you’re gonna be some, you know, that one’s in our top 20, and this one isn’t. So you start looking at that, and you now have the math from that, and the science from the systematic gathering of insights of qualitative and quantitative research. And now your story is being built by and for your patients, referral sources, and employees, because you ask them for their insights, you listen, and then you use your math to see who they are, and you build the story by them, for them, and with them. So now your story is that much more powerful, and that can be done in any industry, but in healthcare, it is particularly important, because healthcare is all about meaning. We place meaning with our healthcare, meaning behind hospice, meaning behind home health, meaning behind assisted living and senior living, meaning behind an oral surgeon, meaning behind what our family doc means to us, and that means the story has to be built with, by, and for the target audience through the science and the math. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:17:38]: Okay, so because of the experiences that we have with patients as physicians, obviously, we can give stories from the experiences we have, but to you, do you recommend that stories are built by the patients themselves in the stories they relate to their experiences? 

David Mastovich [0:17:55]: I think it’s fantastic when you have a combination, so each physician practice has people that are incredibly happy with them. My family doctor just left UPMC. She knew I was part of UPMC and part of building it, and she would lament some of the things she didn’t like. And I said to her, it’s still a great system, it’s one of the first integrated financial health care delivery systems in the world that has the financing arm, the provider arm, the insurance arm, the doctor arm, and the health hospital arm, but it’s big now. And so she left, and I went with her. I followed her because I’ve been with her for 15 years and have a personal relationship. You talk about meaning, meaning is this person, what she’s done to help my health, that’s what we have. So when she goes to this new place, she would be wise to ask me to do a testimonial. I’m gonna see if she does. If she doesn’t, I’ll offer at some point, but I want to wait, see if she does. So, there are people like me with her at each practice, listening to us right now. So, at the very least, they should be able to get 358 of these testimonials on their own without much trouble. Just go out and ask the person, will say they’re going to do it, and then they won’t necessarily do it. You then come back and say, ‘Hey, I typed this up next time there. And I typed this up, would this be okay? And you put in from… they’ll probably say yes. Then you say to them, ‘Hey, I’d like to get you on Zoom. Can we just call you on Zoom? Can we do a Zoom call? And you just edit it right in Zoom yourself. And now you have a video testimony to put on your website. Look, would I like you to do better quality? That’s sure, I use Riverside FM, which is a tool for your audience that takes away the bubble and Zoom and makes it look much better as far as your crisp quality of video, but my point is I want to get people out there listening to get started. So now you’ve got no matter what, you’ve got a testimony you can put on a brochure, you can put it on your website, you can put it on the monitor in your waiting room, you can have testimonials or scroll on that, and you start to get them to do some on video, but you build your library of testimonies. The first three or four are layups, to use a basketball term, because they’re people like me with my doctor who love the practice, but over time you start asking more and more people when they say something like. Boy, I hate going to the dentist, but you make it so okay. That’s saying someone telling you they’ll do a testimonial, and when they say no, who cares? Someone just doesn’t want to have their name out there, doesn’t want to be, but most people will say sure. So now you’ve got testimonials from real patients telling your story for you, and you should use your waiting room to share that, and you ought to put it on your website. You ought to get the video that’s on your website. You may send that an email newsletter with that video in the email newsletter. You have three little stories in your email newsletter, which comes out every two months, because you’re busy, you don’t even get to it. Okay, do it every two months, preferably every month, but every two months, and you get three stories in an email newsletter, and one of them is a video testimonial every time from a different person. That’s the way you have your patients telling your story for you. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:20:48]: Do you recommend that most medical and dental practices have e-newsletters? 

David Mastovich [0:20:55]: Yes, I do. I think there’s a couple of things that people might think are old technology, but they’re still relevant as a hub for you, the first is your website still has to be relevant, still has to be updated, still has to be real, because of the search aspect, but also because we still use it, we still, as humans, use it, even though we’re going to Facebook or whatever, we still use websites. Second thing is, a blog is still important for this reason: I’m not claiming that the dentist’s patients are running to read her blog or his. What I am claiming is that you will now be the thought leader, frame that message, and then use it in other ways. Sending that link out helps with SEO. You have all kinds of ways to use it. I’m not expecting people to run to your blog, but it’s a blog that can be sent via email, can be part of an email newsletter, helps with SEO, and shouldn’t be that difficult for you. You are an expert in your practice. You are an expert in your practice. It doesn’t have to be 1000 words; it can be 300 words. In fact, less is better. So, I think a website and a blog are still relevant today as hubs of activity where people can go to, but it also helps with SEO. So, yes, I think that those are two things that each practice should be doing. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:22:04]: What is your opinion about AI taking over that role? 

David Mastovich [0:22:08]: So I think that right now we’re going through what I call the AI sameness of content, and I’m being nice. I have friends who call it AI slot, and here’s what’s happened: we’re not using in the way we can, because we, I think, most people get nervous about writing, the vast majority of humans, and so they get that’s why there’s a term called writer’s block, but most people get nervous about writing, so they think, well, I’ll enter into Chat GPT and it’ll give me what to write, that’s what creates what we call AI sameness of content, if you go to LinkedIn every morning, not every morning, but most mornings, I do this just for fun. I go on my phone, pull up my LinkedIn feed, and I scroll with my thumb. I stop and take a screenshot, and after about 45 seconds, I can have four screenshots of the same opening sentence, each from different people in different industries, and there are a couple of tells that something’s AI. If it says not only is Barbara a great podcast host, she’s great at motocross. You know that phrase, “we don’t talk like that”? That phrase is in there. Another one is the em dash; you see the two-line em dash in between two thoughts that weren’t used much at all. Now with AI, you see it all over the place. Another is that it says not only are you this or that, but it also says that when you set out to do your business, you didn’t want to do blah, but you ended up doing blah. Those are all tales of AI, because the person who doesn’t like to write didn’t realize that the way to leverage ChatGPT, Claude, or any of the others is to get out of writer’s block and say, “I’d like to write a blog for my dental practice.” I’d like to do a blog for my neurosurgery practice. I want to talk about what’s happening in the field. Here’s my take on it. My voice is, I tend to be very direct, and I bring this up, and then you pop that in, and it comes back and gives you about six 800 words of of crap, it’s not really crap, but what it is, is there’s enough slop in it that we know it wasn’t written by a human, but it still got you closer. If you then take that and come back to it, and you say, well, my voice would be this, I talk more like this, and here’s an example of a success, and please don’t use em dashes, and please don’t use a paragraph like this, and copy and paste it. Then the second version gets you even closer, and then you take that second version. You go, now what would I really say in paragraph two? And you just change that. So now this blog that you were nervous about writing takes about 20 minutes and didn’t stress you out, but instead we’re making it take five, and then it’s an AI slop. So that’s one tiny example of a blog post, but the same thing is happening for your LinkedIn post. It’s happening for people trying to write their website copy, people doing email blasts and email newsletters, and people writing video scripts. It’s because we’re not doing the three parts. The first is priming your voice, telling them who you are. Telling them stuff about you, whatever personal stuff, what you like, what your tastes are, what your tendencies are, writers you like, things like that. The second is putting, putting in your thoughts for that particular piece of content. The third is editing it. Most people don’t prime it well, and hardly anyone edits it well, which is why we have AI sameness in storytelling. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:25:19]: Gosh, I do speak like that. I’m really in trouble now. 

David Mastovich [0:25:24]: If you speak like that, people will know, and then you’re okay. Yeah, okay. The people who know you will know. I have a certain style, and people will tell me, Dave, I can tell anything that you’ve written. Like, if I write something for… so when I have to write for a client, I actually prime it in that client’s voice. I describe that client, whatever, but I end up still doing the editing myself. But if you, if that’s your style, then that’s what you do, that’s how you write. But that key thing you just said was, I said, that’s how I write, that’s how I talk. Those are the things most people don’t do. Write as you talk. Who says nonetheless? Not many people say so. If you do good, not many people say; nonetheless, you open a sentence up with nonetheless, and you don’t use that. This will have a deleterious impact. Who says “deleterious” is a nice long word and everything? I don’t know many people who say that. So, if you put that in there, someone’s going to go, “Oh, that doesn’t sound like Joanne, that doesn’t sound like Rob, and so write as you talk, and then it’s easier for you. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:26:22]: Well, I think that in itself is good advice. Tell me, could you speak about your referral-source growth marketing system and how it works? 

David Mastovich [0:26:33]: Sure, it’s really a growth accelerator, and involves most of what we’ve talked about today. It involves first ensuring we’re not neglecting any of those six right-fit target markets for healthcare companies, healthcare organizations, and physician practices across the board. The second is using science and math to drive any of your storytelling, that is, making sure that you’ve gone out and done the qualitative research, and then this part, analyzing that referral data, because until you do that, analyzing that referral data, you really don’t have the full system. I know people who will go and hire liaisons, I know people who are staffing companies of liaisons, and that’s important. I’m glad there are people who do that, but if you haven’t done the other part, if you haven’t done the systematic gathering of insights, studied the data yourself, if you haven’t built the story with the target audiences, because that liaison has to have a story, they have to have the story that really will resonate emotionally and factually. So, the system is to go through all of those. It’s a five-step part, which the first part is systematically gathering insights, the second is mapping out, based on the math, science, and math, what the target markets are. Then the third is activating the story and the repetitive system of having someone tell that story, whether it’s a liaison or another employee. And then the fourth is continually doing that and tracking it and testing, tracking, and tweaking what’s working and what’s not, because anything we do in life doesn’t work 90% of the time. And so the same thing of your referral source marketing, so you have to tweak and track and test that, and that’s what the whole system is, as each of those steps in it, and most people do a couple things, some do nothing, they actually do nothing, and they think the quality of their care is going to matter, and sadly that’s not the case for any of us in any field, the quality of my marketing. Hey, if this were all judged solely on the quality of the storytelling, the science, and the system, we’d be a heck of a lot bigger at Mass Solutions. So, you still have to go and tell that story, but you have to do it systematically. Others do the liaison thing, they have a liaison going out talking to referral sources, that’s good, but not if you haven’t done all this other stuff, and not if you haven’t used things like predictive index to see what drives the communication of your liaison team, not if you haven’t given them the stories and tested them on the stories, not if you haven’t gathered the testimonials, not if you don’t track the referral sources on an ongoing basis to see the outcomes that the liaisons are getting you, so it’s more than just getting liaisons, it’s more than just doing a story, it’s a whole system. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:29:05]: What social media platforms are for no-bullshit marketing? 

David Mastovich [0:29:11]: Well, the main one for me is LinkedIn, and my team makes fun of me because I’ve been a big LinkedIn user for 15 years, and they’ve made sure that we still have a presence on other social media outlets, like Instagram, Facebook, to a degree, Twitter, not as much. And the reason I haven’t put into all four of those the full level of activity is because you’re not going to be an expert at 10 things in your career, and you’re not going to be great at five social media platforms, so you need to pick one or two that you’re going to really focus on, then another two that you’re going to focus on to some degree. So, because a lot of my business comes from entrepreneurs, CEOs, owners, and the like, LinkedIn is important. However, there are many, many doctor practices that we’re not going to get from LinkedIn, so we’ve got to make sure we have other ways. To market to them and to reach them and communicate to them, so I would say that it depends on what your target markets are like within those six, what their makeup is, and what you want to convey. So, for me, I personally use LinkedIn a lot, for me and for Mass Solutions, but we also have posts on Instagram and Facebook to a degree. You also have to be realistic about it. While we are passionate about what we do, and we’re excited, and we have a cool little no bullshit marketing thing, and we have our no bullshit button, that bullshit. So we have that for what we give to clients, so we’re still not going to be something you’re thumbing through regularly to see what you know what you and I are doing, Barbara. That’s not going to happen as much as when you’re watching, you’re looking at stuff on social media about other things, about different products, movie stars, celebrities, things of that nature. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:30:47]: Do you sell that button? 

David Mastovich [0:30:48]: No, I haven’t. We’ve thought about doing that. We probably should. What I do for the button is that new clients get buttons for the people on the team that brought us in and are working with us on a regular basis. Funny story behind that is with the podcast, one of the team members came up to me one day and just said, “Hey, give me for the test today, you know, you’re testing the audio, just give me a.. that’s bullshit. I go, “That’s bullshit. About a week or so later, this was on my desk, so they did it without telling me. I said, “That’s that’s cool, and it is a.. it is a proud.. as a crowd favorite, people like that a lot. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:31:22]: When I was speaking to you prior to the show today, you mentioned that there is another book by you that is in progress. What is that going to be about? 

David Mastovich [0:31:31]: Well, my first book was Get Where You Want to Go through Marketing, Selling, and Storytelling, and that was in 2011 when storytelling was still not considered a good thing. Storytelling was like, oh, you’re kind of bs, and so forth. So we’re ahead of the curve there. The most recent one is no bullshit marketing, and as a, there’s a large focus on healthcare. The one I’m in progress right now is looking at the family business aspect, because we’re at a time when the very high percentage – it’s about, I think, it’s between 60 and 67% I don’t know the exact stat of businesses are turning generationally right now within the next three to five years, and so I want to be able to help with recruiting, retention, and revenue results for those kind of family owned businesses, and that family owned business could be a physician practice, it could be a dental practice, it could be anything that’s family owned. It could be a physical therapy company, so it is in healthcare. I don’t want people to think that that’s not just outside of healthcare, but the reason it’s so passionate to me is my dad had a family business, he’s my hero, and my mom and dad are my heroes. I got to see them yesterday, and so I’ve always had a soft spot for family owned business, and I have one myself, but these businesses that are generationally going on and are big enough that they’re handing it down in these next three to five years, they really need to be able to convey that cultural storytelling and the market storytelling, and if they aren’t going to do that with the science, math, and driving the creative art, they’re going to have problems, so I’m looking at any type of multi-generational business out there, many in healthcare and some not, and that’s what the book’s going to be about. 

Chapter 5: Family Business, Offer & Episode Close 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:33:08]: There are a lot of family-owned businesses, or businesses that are passed on, that have a tremendous amount of friction between siblings that are in there, you know. Is there something that you do to get rid of that tension? 

David Mastovich [0:33:24]: Well, it’s about clarity, and that’s what we want to bring to the situation, is clarity about what you want to keep of the existing culture. So, let’s say there’s a 70 year old dad that owns this, that’s still in the top spot, and his 45 year old daughter has been there for a while, and she’s been in the number two spot, and everybody kind of knows she’s going to be the number one, and there’s some friction there because he doesn’t want to walk away completely yet, and she doesn’t want the shadow there. So we have to get clarity on what they both want, convey that to each other, and then have the new generation decide what we are keeping from the culture. You don’t throw the entire culture out, you don’t even throw 70% of it, I don’t throw 50% about you, probably just tweak the culture 20 to 30% So, let’s, let’s, what’s the two thirds that’s going to stay and make sure that story remains intact, and what’s that new third going to be for that new leader, so they have some pride in ownership of the culture, and then you have to infuse that culture through current and potential employees again and again and again, and then convey that to the market. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:34:30]: Very often, with these family businesses, there is friction when it comes to disbursement of funds, and like, how much each person you know can get, like, where the money is being spent, you know, which is not always something that they agree upon. How do you get them to not only see that there is a problem, but also how to resolve it? 

David Mastovich [0:34:56]: Well, we see it as a mass solution as one key part of. Our team, and we’re the part that’s finding out what the market is thinking, and the market is those six target markets. We’re finding out what those six target markets are thinking and feeling, coming back to convey that, and building plans around it. But we’re only one part of the team. We know that there’s going to be a wealth manager, financial planner part of that team, and we know there’s going to be a CPA firm part of that team, we know there’s going to be a top legal person part of that team, and what we do that’s a little different is we love talking about that, because we’ve had clients in all three of those spaces, so we have had multiple CPA firms, multiple wealth management firms, and multiple law firms, and so we kind of know that space and we look at it as a positive to make it a team, whereas I think a lot of times when someone’s doing mainly the storytelling and not all the other business solutions that we’re doing in the strategy, they don’t even realize who the law firm is, or who the CPA firm is, or the wealth management team is, and so then it’s they’re just an afterthought, so then your, your digital agency is an afterthought. Oh yeah, when we get the story done, we tell them, whereas what we’re trying to do is say, no, no, this is a key team that you got these four external forces along with your internal leadership team. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:36:13]: Well, what I’d like to throw out to the audience listening is that if this happens to pertain to you, if you are part of a family or a legacy where it’s being passed down, and I’m sure you’ve got stories. Then what I’d like, before the book is finished, is to know, write your story out, and submit it to Dave, and maybe it’ll wind up in his book. 

David Mastovich [0:36:38]: Yes, for sure, that’d be great. That’d be amazing, 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:36:40]: So you know, let me say this again. If you missed that, write your story, good or bad, don’t have to put your name on it if you don’t want to, and send it to Dave, and you know your company, and, and if you put your name, you know, and and it winds up in the book, you know that’s going to be great exposure for you. So write out your story, submit it to Dave, and you know it may be in his next book, 

David Mastovich [0:37:05]: and to be, to be completely transparent to them, so they know if you email me this stuff, I’ll reach back out and we’ll talk, and you can say, I want it to be anonymous, or no, I don’t mind, like, I want, you know, that’s the way we tackle that, so it’d be good to just hear that and learn that, and it’s Dave at Mass Solutions dot biz dot biz, and even, even if a listener wants one of my other two books, just tell me which one you would like, and because they listen to your show, I’ll give them a signed copy. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:37:31]: Okay, so also before the show started, Dave told me that he was going to offer, you know, something great for all of you listeners, but not only listeners, you have to actually engage and submit a request. So, could you repeat what you offered them again? 

David Mastovich [0:37:51]: Sure. If any of your listeners would like either of my two books, No Bush Marketing, or Get Where You Want to Go Through Marketing, Selling and Storytelling, email me at David Mass Solutions dot biz. Mention which book, and mention that you listen to the show, and I will sign it and send it to you. 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:38:05]: Well, thank you so much. This has been a great episode, and I’m sure everybody learned a tremendous amount. You know, thank you for being on the show with us. 

David Mastovich [0:38:15]: Hey, thanks for having me, and I really enjoyed 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:38:17]: it. Okay, well, that’s the end of the show. Thank you for watching Marketing Tips for doctors with your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Until next time, 

Narrator [0:38:29]: Thanks for listening to Marketing Tips for Doctors. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review. Press the subscribe button so you never miss an episode, and tell your friends about the show. Join us on Marketing Tips for doctors.com for replays and more resources to help grow your practice, strengthen your brand, and dominate your field. Remember, your one tweet from greatness, you. 

In this episode, Barbara discusses: 

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TRANSCRIPT (245)

Welcome & Sharing Value as a Follow-Up 

Dr. Barbara Hales 0:02 

Hi, welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales, and this is part two of We’ve Met. Now, what becomes a valuable source of information when it comes to following up and being top of mind for the people that you’ve met? Here’s another simple way to stay connected without feeling awkward or intrusive. Whenever you come across an interesting article, a new study, an industry trend, or a breaking news story that relates to someone’s interests or professions? Send it to them. A brief note is all it takes. I saw this article and thought of our conversation at the conference. Given your interest in concierge medicine, I thought you might find it interesting, and this breaking healthcare story reminds me of our discussion a few months ago. You don’t need a reason beyond that. In fact, these small touchpoints are often more meaningful than formal networking follow-ups because they demonstrate that you were paying attention. They show that you remember who the person is, what matters to them, and what challenges they’re facing over time. People begin to associate you with useful information, thoughtful insights, and genuine interests. You become more than a name on a business card or a connection on LinkedIn; you become a trusted resource, and every time you provide value without asking for anything in return, you are making another deposit into that relationship bank account. I particularly like this section because it gives listeners a practical action step. Most people think networking means checking in. The smartest networkers do something different. They share a value that keeps them visible, memorable, and helpful all at once. 

Become a Connector 

Several years ago, I met two professionals at different times, both of whom were talented, both of whom were smart, and both of whom were trying to solve similar challenges. One day I realized they needed to know each other, so I sent a simple email, John, I’d like you to meet Susan. Susan, I’d like you to meet John. I think the two of you would enjoy connecting. That was it. No commission, no hidden agenda, no benefit to me. Months later, one of them called. That introduction had evolved into a collaboration that eventually created opportunities for both of them. What struck me wasn’t the business outcome; it was the reminder that one of the most valuable things we can do is to become a connector. You don’t have to be the smartest person in the room. Sometimes your greatest value is simply helping the right people find one another. The lesson people remember is the person who opened the door, who becomes a connector. One of the fastest ways to build a powerful network is to stop asking what I can get and start asking who I can help. When you introduce people to opportunities, resources, and relationships. Something remarkable happens. You become memorable, you become trusted, you become valuable. The people who are most respected in. Professional circles are often not the ones who are the most successful people. They’re the most helpful people. 

The Long-Term Value of Being Helpful 

A physician once reached out after hearing one of my presentations. We spoke briefly, nothing formal, no consulting agreement, no major discussion, just a conversation. A year passed, then one day I received an email. He had referred someone to me. When I thanked him, he said something I’ll never forget. Barbara, you took the time to help me when you did not have to. I never forgot that. Think about that. The referral didn’t come from a sales funnel; it didn’t come from advertising; it came from a relationship, and relationships often operate on a timeline we can’t predict. The lesson is never to underestimate the long-term value of being helpful today. 

Don’t Let Opportunities Die in the Networking Graveyard 

I want you to imagine a giant cemetery, not for people, but for opportunities every day. Opportunities die because nobody follows up: potential partnerships, friendships, referrals, speaking engagements, job offers, and collaborations. They all disappear because one person assumes that if they’re interested, the other will contact them, who assumes exactly the same thing, and the opportunity quietly vanishes, not because anyone said no, but because nobody said anything. I’ve often wondered how many life-changing opportunities have been lost because two good people simply fail to send one email, one text, one LinkedIn message, one follow-up note. Don’t let your opportunities die in the networking graveyard. At one conference, I met two individuals on the same day. Both handed me their cards. 

Follow-Through Beats Talent 

Dr. Barbara Hales 7:46 

The first person followed up the next morning. He thanked me for the conversation, mentioned something we had discussed, shared an article he thought I’d enjoy, no sales pitch, no pressure, just value. The second person never followed up at all. A year later, I remembered the first person immediately. I couldn’t even remember the second person’s name, the difference was not talent, the difference wasn’t intelligence, the difference wasn’t credentials, the difference was follow through. The lesson is that relationships don’t grow from introductions; they grow from intentionality. 

Networking Is for Introverts Too 

Many people believe networking belongs to extroverts. I disagree. Some of the best networkers I’ve ever met were introverts. Why? Because they listen, they ask thoughtful questions, they remember details, they make people feel heard. Networking isn’t about working the room; it’s about working the relationship. You don’t need to meet 50 people; you need to genuinely connect with a few. In fact, I’d rather have five meaningful professional relationships than 500 superficial contacts. 

A LinkedIn Connection Is Not a Relationship 

Let me gently challenge something. A LinkedIn connection is not a relationship; it’s simply a digital handshake. Many people believe networking happened because they clicked connect. It didn’t. The relationship starts afterward. Did you send a message? Did you connect? At the conversation, did you provide value? Did you learn something about the person? Did you stay in touch? Technology can facilitate relationships; it cannot replace them. 

Staying Connected Through Shared Value 

Here’s another simple way to stay connected without feeling awkward or intrusive whenever you come across an interesting article, a new study, an industry trend, or a breaking news story that relates to someone’s interest or profession: send it to them. A brief note is all it takes. I saw this article and thought of our conversation, or given your interest in healthcare marketing, I thought you’d find this interesting, or this breaking story reminded me of a discussion we had a few months ago. These small touchpoints demonstrate something powerful: they show that you were listening, that you remember, and that the relationship matters. Over time, people begin to associate you with useful information, thoughtful insights, and genuine value, and every time you provide value without asking anything in return, you are making another deposit into that relationship bank account. 

Networking Ends — Relationships Begin 

I want to leave you with this. The most valuable relationships in my life rarely began with a grand strategy. They began with a conversation, a moment of kindness, a willingness to listen, a thoughtful follow-up, a simple act of generosity. Years later, those small moments often became referrals, friendships, collaborations, speaking opportunities, and professional growth. So the next time you leave a conference, a networking event, a medical meeting, a podcast interview, or even a chance encounter with someone interesting. Don’t ask what I can get from this person. Ask what I can contribute to this relationship, because networking ends when the event is over. Relationships begin when the follow-up starts, and that’s the answer to today’s question. We’ve met now, what? Now you build something meaningful. 

Your 24-Hour Challenge 

Before we finish today, I’d like to give you a simple challenge. Within the next 24 hours, think of three people you’ve met in the last year, maybe someone you met at a conference, maybe someone you connected with on LinkedIn, maybe a former colleague, a physician you admire, a podcast guest, or someone you had a meaningful conversation with but never followed up. Pick three names, then send a message, not a sales pitch, not a request, not a favor, just a genuine note. Tell them you enjoyed meeting them, share an article that reminded you of them, congratulate them on something they’ve accomplished, or simply ask how they’re doing. That’s it. Three messages, three deposits into your relationship bank account. You never know which conversation may lead to a friendship, a referral, a collaboration, a speaking opportunity, a new patient, a new client, or an opportunity that changes the direction of your career. Remember, networking does not create opportunities, relationship creates opportunities, so it’s not networking, but relationships that create opportunities, and every meaningful relationship starts with a simple follow-up. If today’s episode resonated with you, I’d love to hear about it. 

Closing Remarks 

Dr. Barbara Hales 14:59 

Send me a message in the comments and tell me about the most valuable professional relationship you’ve built and how it began. You may discover, as I have, that some of the most important opportunities in life started with a conversation that almost never happened. Thank you for joining me today on Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Until next time, keep building trust, keep building relationships, and keep making a difference. Until next time. 

 In this episode, Barbara discusses:  

Key Takeaways: 

“Networking ends when the event is over. Relationships begin when the follow-up starts.” -Dr. Barbara Hales 

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

TRANSCRIPT (244)

Introduction: We’ve Met… Now What? 

Dr. Barbara Hales 0:00 

Hi, welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Today we’re talking about something that almost nobody teaches us—not in medical school, not in residency, not in business school, not even at most networking events. We’re talking about what happens after you’ve met someone. You attend a conference, you exchange business cards, you connect on LinkedIn, you have a wonderful conversation—and then nothing. Weeks pass, months pass, years pass, and the connection quietly disappears. That’s why today’s episode is called We’ve Met… Now What? Networking isn’t just what happens during the introduction. Networking is what happens after it. The introduction is simply the beginning of the story. The relationship is where the value lives. Today, I’m going to share practical follow-up strategies that work, but I also want to share three stories that taught me something important. People rarely remember your elevator pitch. They remember how you made them feel. 

A Lost Badge and a Lesson in Kindness 

Several years ago, I attended a healthcare conference. Like many conferences, there were hundreds of attendees. Everyone seemed to be collecting business cards like children collecting baseball cards. Near the end of the day, I noticed a woman standing alone near the registration desk. She looked frustrated. She had misplaced her conference badge and was worried because she needed it to attend an evening reception. I helped her retrace her steps. We searched a few meeting rooms. Eventually, we found it tucked under a chair. She was relieved. We chatted for maybe five minutes—nothing remarkable, no business discussion, no sales pitch, no strategic planning, just two people having a conversation. A year later, completely out of the blue, she reached out. Her organization was looking for someone with expertise in healthcare communications and patient engagement. She remembered me—not because I handed her a brochure, not because I gave her a perfect elevator pitch. She remembered me because I helped her during a stressful moment. That interaction led to introductions, opportunities, and relationships that lasted well beyond that conference. The lesson: people may forget what you said, but they rarely forget kindness. 

A Contact Is Not a Relationship 

Here’s a controversial statement: most networking doesn’t fail because people can’t meet others; it fails because they never follow up. Think about it. How many business cards have you collected over the years? How many LinkedIn connections do you have? How many names sit in your phone that you haven’t spoken to in years? A contact is not a relationship. A relationship requires attention, just like a garden. If you plant seeds and never water them, nothing grows. 

The 48-Hour Rule 

Here’s the 48-hour rule. One of the simplest things you can do is follow up within 48 hours. Send a message, keep it simple: “Great meeting you at the conference. I enjoyed our conversation. I’d love to stay connected.” That’s it. No sales pitch, no proposal, no immediate request. You’re simply continuing a conversation. Most people don’t do this, which means when you do, you immediately stand out. 

The Handwritten Card 

Years ago, a physician I met at an event sent me a handwritten Christmas card—not an email, not a newsletter, not a marketing piece, a simple handwritten card. Inside, he wrote, “Barbara, it was a pleasure meeting you this year. Wishing you and your family a wonderful holiday season.” That was it. No agenda, no hidden ask, no business proposition, just kindness. Over the years, we exchanged occasional notes. Sometimes months would pass, sometimes years, but every interaction was genuine. When someone later asked me if I knew a physician they should connect with, his name immediately came to mind—not because he marketed himself, not because he promoted himself, but because he stayed present, because he stayed human. The lesson: being memorable often has nothing to do with being impressive. It has everything to do with being thoughtful. 

Relationships Are a Bank Account 

I love thinking about relationships as a bank account. Every interaction is either a deposit or a withdrawal. Many professionals make a withdrawal immediately: Can you refer patients? Can you hire me? Can you introduce me? Can you buy my service? But they haven’t made any deposits yet. Successful relationship builders do the opposite. They make deposits first. They share an article, offer encouragement, congratulate someone on an accomplishment, make an introduction, and provide value without expecting immediate return. Eventually, trust accumulates, and trust is the currency that creates opportunities. People often tell me, “Barbara, I don’t want to bother people.” 

Thoughtful Follow-Up Is Not Bothering 

Dr. Barbara Hales 8:06 

I understand that, but thoughtful follow-up does not bother someone. Nobody is annoyed by “Congratulations on your promotion,” “I saw your article and thought of you,” “Your recent presentation was excellent,” or “Hope you’re doing well.” That’s relationship-building, and relationship-building is never out of style. 

Every Conversation Matters 

Many years ago, I met a young student who was exploring a career in healthcare. We spoke briefly. I offered some encouragement and answered a few questions. That was it—nothing dramatic, no expectation of ever seeing that person again. Several years later, I received a message. The student had become a healthcare professional. In the message they wrote, “You probably don’t remember me, but years ago you took time to talk with me when I was trying to figure out my future. That conversation meant more than you know.” I sat there reading that message with tears in my eyes because I genuinely didn’t realize the impact that brief interaction had. We often underestimate the effect we have on people. A few encouraging words, a few minutes of attention, a little kindness—sometimes those moments stay with people for decades. The lesson: every conversation matters. You never know which connection will become meaningful, and you never know whose life you may influence simply by showing up as a decent human being. 

Relationships Create Opportunities—Networking Just Creates Introductions 

One of the biggest misconceptions about networking is that networking creates opportunities. I don’t think that’s true. Relationships create opportunities. Networking simply creates introductions. The opportunity comes later—often much later, sometimes years later. That’s why the goal isn’t to collect contacts. The goal is to build genuine relationships. After meeting someone, send a short note within 48 hours. Connect on LinkedIn and include a personal message. Share a useful article related to your conversation. Congratulate them when they achieve something. Introduce them to someone who may help them. Check in every few months. Remember birthdays or work anniversaries. Be genuinely curious about their success. Most of these take less than five minutes, yet almost nobody does them consistently. 

Conclusion: Build Something Meaningful 

As we wrap up today, I’d like to leave you with this thought. The most valuable relationships in my life did not begin with a transaction—they began with a conversation, a shared moment, a small act of kindness, a genuine interest in another person. So the next time you leave a conference, a networking event, a medical meeting, or even a chance encounter with someone interesting, don’t ask “How can this person help me?” Instead, ask, “How can I continue this relationship?” Because networking ends when the event is over, and relationships begin when the follow-up starts. And that’s the answer to today’s question: We’ve met… now what? Now you build something meaningful. Thank you for joining me on Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m Dr. Barbara Hales, the Medical Strategist. Until next time, keep building trust, keep building relationships, and keep making a difference. 

In this episode, Barbara discusses: 

Key Takeaways: 

“A packed waiting room doesn’t mean a profitable practice — the real success comes from attracting the right patients and building the right referral relationships.” 

— Dr. Barbara Hales

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

Profitable Practice vs Busy Practice 

Dr. Barbara Hales 00:02 

Hi, welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales, and today we have Dr. David Romani with us. Welcome to the show. 

Dr. David Romani 00:16 

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 00:19 

There’s a dirty secret in healthcare that nobody talks about: a packed waiting room does not mean a profitable practice. Dr. David Romansky spent over 25 years figuring out why, first as a clinic owner, then as the founder of Doctor Referral Institute. He works with healthcare practices across multiple specialties, helping them build referral systems that consistently bring in the right cases, not just more cases. Well, let’s get into it. Dr. David 

Dr. David Romani 00:58 

Sounds good. Thank you for the intro. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 01:01 

How is it that you decided upon doing this referral system? What got? 

Dr. David Romani 01:11 

Yeah, good question. So, actually, is in my own practice, so this is back early, probably know, probably 2530 years ago, we were working on getting into a publication that was pretty popular for our demographic that we were looking for, and we finally got into this big publication, was actually called Suburban Women, that went to probably about 80,000 women household in the area, who was a big target for our practice. So we ran the ad, and we’d met every week with our team, and I’d had working for me, and so the phone was ringing off the hook, and I asked my office manager, So how’s that new ad going? And she said, It’s going awful. I go, what do you mean, the phone’s ringing off the hook? She’s like, yes, we’ve had tons of phone calls, but we really only had two cases that are really what we want to see, not only cases that are appropriate, but also on the business side, the appropriate payer mixes. 

Understanding Referral Relationships 

Dr. Barbara Hales 03:20 

Why do great doctors still struggle to grow even today? Despite the fact that there is supposedly a shortage of doctors, 

Dr. David Romani 03:30 

It’s education. It’s really what it is. It’s education of not only, I guess, from a doctor’s standpoint of it’s truly understanding the business side, because if you think about, as a provider, we’ve always been taught, you know, patients first, patient everything, which is exactly what we’re talking about. We want to make sure patients are being taken care of, but on the business side, we need to take a step back and look at our actual practice, right? Because if you think about the person who walks through the door as an owner of the practice, whether it is exactly the case you want to see, or if it’s something that maybe is not an appropriate fit for what you’re doing, either condition, pay, or mix. You’re the only one affected. Everybody else makes the same amount of money, right? Whether it’s the front desk, referral coordinators, office managers, assistants, or whatever else, everybody gets paid the same. You do not. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 04:32 

What do referring providers actually base their decisions on? 

Dr. David Romani 04:37 

Good question, and a lot of it has to do with people they know and people they can relate to, right? So, we do have some people who will say, you know, I do work on those relationships, and we show up, you know, every, you know, couple of times a year and bring something to them. Well, they see patients every week, right? And so every week they’re seeing people, so we want to make sure we’re staying on top of them and communicating with them. 

Seeing the Right Patients 

Dr. Barbara Hales 05:32 

You’ve, you’ve talked about the busy trap. Why a full schedule doesn’t mean a profitable practice. What do you mean by that? 

Dr. David Romani 05:42 

Well, because if you think about it, I’ll give you a perfect example. We have a client who will retire in about six years. He said he wants to be able to retire in, and he says that right now in my practice, I have a waiting list of about 5 to 6 months or 5 to 6 weeks to get in to see me yet. If I actually looked at it, because one of the assignments I gave him said, Look at your practice and understand actually the demographics of it, and 35% of his practice is full of cases that are really not what he should be seeing, right? They’re not really the kinds of cases they want to see in their office. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 06:42 

I see. Well, you also talk about how your best referral sources aren’t sending you patients. That seems like a country contradiction. If they’re the best referral sources, how could they not be sending you patients? 

Dr. David Romani 06:56 

Because they don’t understand exactly who to send those cases to, right? So, this happens a lot, right? They may have the demographic that’s perfect for you, but you’ve not been there in front of them to educate them on exactly what you do. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 07:32 

I see. Well, how do you stop seeing the wrong patients? 

Dr. David Romani 07:37 

Well, and the biggest thing is going to be is that first thing again is understanding what you want to see, right, and not so much that, but really the demographic is finding out, okay, what are you good at, who has those cases, and then building and nurturing those relationships with those appropriate providers. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 08:30 

Well, don’t you have to see all the patients referred to you? 

Dr. David Romani 08:35 

Of course, you can’t go in and not tell people not to come into your practice, right? You can’t say that, but if you educate the referring providers again, of, hey, guess what, this is exactly the case I’m looking for. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 08:55 

And do you have a, you know, like you wash my back, wash yours in terms of you referring patients to them as well? 

Dr. David Romani 09:04 

No, we don’t. We don’t set that up as far as a reverse expectation for any of our clients. 

Building a Referral System 

Dr. Barbara Hales 09:38 

Well, as is, you know, with your name implying Doctor Referral Institute, this is more beneficial for the patients themselves than for the physicians. How do you get your name out there so patients at. As well as doctors know who to come to. 

Dr. David Romani 10:03 

Yep, good question. Yeah, so for all the work we do, we deal directly with the doctors themselves. All of our clients are specialists, so think of anyone in the medical or dental industry. Does not matter who they are; if they can receive a referral, they can be a client of ours. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 11:44 

Okay, so you come into an area that you may not have been in before, as you are expanding, and you, you know, go to speak to the doctors. How do you get in, how do you get in the door? 

Dr. David Romani 12:04 

Great question. Yeah, and remember that’s the number one question I get from everybody. How do you get in the door? Right, we’ve been there before, because you think about even in my practice, yours, you know, the gatekeepers’ responsibility is to keep you out, right? 

Dr. Barbara Hales 14:13 

Well, that certainly makes sense. Do you, do you run webinars or any type of educational programs to attract prospective physicians. 

Dr. David Romani 14:26 

Yeah, so we do different, all kinds of different items for that. We do different things with us on social media, across different aspects, and in webinars. We also offer, for any of them, which is pretty powerful, is a free referral evaluation. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 15:48 

Well, that certainly sounds extremely helpful. So, are what about patients that can only go to certain providers based on their insurance participation, does that enter into your service as well? 

Dr. David Romani 16:08 

Absolutely, yeah, that’s part of the educational process, right? 

Helping Doctors Grow Their Practice 

Dr. Barbara Hales 16:37 

I say, let’s say you are considering me as a client. Tell me, you know, like, tell me what your spiel would be that would make me just say, you know, I have to do this. 

Dr. David Romani 17:09 

Well, part of the difference is understanding that we’re not a marketing company that hasn’t been there, right? I’ve been in your shoes, right? As far as a provider goes to understand that nuance. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 20:09 

In getting to know all the doctors in a particular area. Can you help a physician who says, you know what, what service is lacking that by taking it, I would be unique, or what am I offering that is unique that nobody else is doing? 

Dr. David Romani 20:30 

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, we do look at that. So, we have, we have quite a bit of data as far as the market share goes, and we don’t have every provider in the country, but pretty close. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 21:43 

Yeah, I think that may be one of your most valuable services, like as a practicing physician. Like, I know what I provide; I don’t really know what everybody else, you know, in my specialty is providing. 

Dr. David Romani 22:06 

Yeah, absolutely. No, and it’s big, because if you think about it, the workflow of patients that’s out there, right, they’re looking, the referring providers looking for a solution, because they can’t treat them, they got to go somewhere, right. 

Dr. Barbara Hales 22:46 

Absolutely, well, this has been a wonderful conversation, and for all you listeners out there who feel this is the service for you. How can they reach you? 

Dr. David Romani 23:02 

Yeah, we have numerous different ways. So, our website is Referrals for doctors.com 

Dr. Barbara Hales 23:28 

Well, that’s great. Thank you so much for being with us today. 

Dr. David Romani 23:33 

Thank you for your time, Doc. I really appreciate. 

In this episode, Barbara discusses: 

Key Takeaways: 

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

TRANSCRIPT (242)

Introduction to AI for Business Owners 

Dr. Barbara Hales 0:02 

Hi, welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Doctor Barbara Hales, and today we have a special guest named Ronnie Toronto. She is the founder of One Woman. A woman shows a community how to help women business owners bring AI into their work strategically, in a language that feels like theirs. Her mission: no woman should have to figure AI out alone now. This is big, because you know every day you hear about AI doing new things, and every day there’s a new type of AI, whether it’s the three different divisions of Claude or Nano Banana or one of many, many AI types, and each one you know is known to do something better than any of the others, so you know it can get really confusing, especially if you want it to help you out in, in your business, you know, AI isn’t just Chat GPT anymore. Her method starts with the pain, not the tools. She does not ask a business owner which AI to buy; she asks which task is killing her this month, today. She walks us through how she built her own AI-run business and where any solo practitioner should actually start. Welcome to the show, Ronnie. 

Ronnie Toronto 1:59 

Hi, welcome, and thank you for the opportunity to be here with you and share about some of my work. 

How Ronnie Got Started with AI 

 Dr. Barbara Hales 2:10 

How did you get involved in AI to begin with? 

Ronnie Toronto 2:15 

Um, as I think, as like everyone else, I saw AI ads and AI all around the news and the platform at Instagram and Facebook, and like I felt left behind, and because like I knew a CGPT, but I didn’t know how really to use it, and everybody say like, oh, it’s the best thing, it’s it’s helped me in my business, so I just started to explore more and more, and read, and to take process, and I like surround myself with people that use AI as a victim and not only as a tool, and and then from that moment and on I realized that I can change my entire business with AI. 

Life Before and After AI Automation 

Dr. Barbara Hales 3:10 

Tell us, what a week in your life looked like before AI, and what it looks like now. 

Ronnie Toronto 3:18 

So, before AI, I was doing all of the admin tasks, and all of all of the tests, actually alone, like I did everything manually, and if it’s to spend like between 10 to 15 hours a week on on building reports for clients, and and now I can actually say that, like, AI build me the same report, the exact same system, but even better to send to clients without me needing to operate a single file, like he can do everything for me, and it’s actually same between 10 to 15 hours a week, only for one task. 

The First Task, Ronnie Automated 

Dr. Barbara Hales 4:09 

What was the very first task you handed over to AI, and what happened? Walk us through that, I 

Ronnie Toronto 4:28 

What was the first task that I gave to AI to do for me, because I thought it’s like taking a lot of time and a lot of effort, and to actually uploading the same, the same numbers through Google Sheets manually all day long take me a lot of time, and so I think that was my biggest pain point, and but I didn’t, I mean to say that I didn’t automate my. Our business, because I do believe in humanity, and I do believe that we need to do some stuff in the business, because in them the client chooses me because of who I am, and not because the AI can do it, and I chose four pain points to automate it, and there are 1000 in a business. 

AI Morning Brief and Email Prioritization 

Dr. Barbara Hales 5:25 

You get something called a morning brief in your inbox every day. Tell us what it is, who built it, and how it changed your mornings. 

Ronnie Toronto 5:42 

Okay. I don’t know if a lot of people in the podcast know about what is it, but you can use clothes and clothes have a clothes and you have code a cloud code, so I’m using Power right now, and I build a skill like you have your own system that you teach her how to be new, so I build my co-work to do the same thing that I’m doing manually, so every morning when I wake up, Co-op already builds for me the priorities that I have on my email, like who is the most important to answer, who I can actually ignore, and so he, he built for me this, and that I can see what is the urgent stuff in my business, what I need to answer, and I don’t need to just go through 40 or 20 or even five emails anymore. It’s just in, and when I wake up and open the computer, it’s already building for me. It’s already showing me what I need to do next in the morning, without me having to start reading and exploring what was happening when I closed the computer last night. 

Building an AI Stack Beyond ChatGPT 

Dr. Barbara Hales 7:01 

Most people think AI just means ChatGPT. What is actually in your AI stack, and what does each tool do for you? 

Ronnie Toronto 7:16 

And so I was starting to say that what I’m using isn’t a tool, and it’s not that I’m trying, like, to sell another product, but when you’re using AI at JGPT, you’re using one tool, like you pay $30 months for one tool, they do one thing, but the co-work that I’m using, the AI that I’m using right now, it’s a system that you pay, that you pay, you pay $20 but $20 a month, but you can have unlimited tool that, like, is built for you, and that you can operate with your entire business, and to reduce the amount of time that you spend on the same repetitive test, but is one tool that do every, like, it’s one tool, but inside with unlimited rule. Yeah, it’s magic. What is 

Common AI Mistakes Business Owners Make 

Dr. Barbara Hales 8:28 

What is the biggest mistake you see business owners making with AI right now? 

Ronnie Toronto 8:40 

I think the biggest one is that people that business actually they are not replaced by AI but being separated by AI because again it’s easy to use JGP team to ask him the same question but in the end you need to build operation, you need to build AI that is like your team, and you need to ask yourself not how I’m using AI, it’s actually how AI helping me to replace my pain point to reduce my repetitive test, like how he’s walking without me needed to touch the computer, need to use or ask him over and over again the same question, because I’m not asking for my tool to build me report, he know the co-work, know to send an email to each client every Sunday, and every, and every month, actually, like it’s weekly, it’s daily, weekly, and monthly. He knows how to send the reports along without me needing to tell him, “Oh, you need to send reports. He knows how to open Google Sheets. How to build the same report that clients like to see and send it to the mail with the sentence that and summarize with text that the clients want and like to see. What is one 

How to Avoid AI Overwhelm 

Dr. Barbara Hales 10:17 

What is the biggest thing that could save them from the mistakes that they’re making with AI, 

Ronnie Toronto 10:30 

I would say that they need to stop using it as a tool, they need to start exploring more than only chp and ask themselves what can help me to reduce the time that I’m spending or or even to eat, like I know it’s sometimes very nervous, like it’s become nervous like to just using Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn, and see the ads popping up with AI, and then become confused where to start, what to do. So just stop anything. What is your biggest pain point? And from that point on, explore what can help you replace this pain point with a tool with AI. 

The Vision Behind One Woman Show 

Dr. Barbara Hales 11:26 

Tell us about the one-woman show that you have. I understand that’s a community. 

Ronnie Toronto 11:33 

Yes, so one more show is for women in business and a movement that turns women business owner from traditional operation using AI as a tool into AI powered operate with their team running in the background, and so it’s helping business women to see there is more, and like I was attending in a lecture a few months ago, and 90 90% of the people in the room were women, and most of them knew what is AI, but none of them know how to actually use it. So I realized that there is a gap on the market, and it’s important that business women out there will become one and actually understand how to speak with AI in more in a feminine language, language in a way that we can understand how to use it, and I didn’t find it, so I realized that if I didn’t find it, maybe I can open one and help other women out there to understand a bit more about AI and how to use it correctly, 

What Happens Inside the One-Woman Show Community 

Dr. Barbara Hales 12:46 

So what happens inside the One Moment Show, 

Ronnie Toronto 12:52 

And so right now, I am trying to share as much information as I can about how I automated my business, and most of it is for free. I even launch a small, a small course that actually explore how to, how to use the co-work, how to do the same thing that I did to automate, to automate like 70% of my business right now, and I’m trying to share all the time my progress, and my system, and how to use different tools out there, and what is more, what is more fit for you and for your business, and yeah, how to operate AI. 

Future Plans for Coaching and Community Growth 

Dr. Barbara Hales 13:39 

So, will there be a coaching program in the future? 

Ronnie Toronto 13:43 

Oh, yes, I hope I can do a Zoom call, like once a week, so more and more women can share and explore how they use it, and I can give some tips and actually talk with business owners out there. Yeah, something that I really, really want to do 

Two Practical AI Tips for Business Owners 

Dr. Barbara Hales 14:09 

for the listeners that we have on the show. Could you give us two helpful tips that they could implement right away? 

Ronnie Toronto 14:22 

and one stop using certificated and just I and yes, explore co-work and second thing is that something that I’m doing, I’m asking this every AI that I’m using, I’m asking AI to ask me questions, because as much as AI is a wonderful tool, you need the magic of humanity, and if we don’t go into ask for ChatGPT or co-work or whatever you use to ask us. To ask us questions, we are going to start thinking. I think it’s very, it’s very important for us to continue thinking and not to give the AI to do the work for us and to do it together as a team. 

Using AI Chatbots for Customer Support 

Dr. Barbara Hales 15:16 

Do you also show people how to use and create chatbots? 

Ronnie Toronto 15:22 

Yeah. yes, yes, I’m doing, I yeah, I help some businesses to do it as well, and I don’t have a website to do a chat, but it’s actually very helpful to some businesses to have, because it’s reduced the amount of time that you spend on answering the same repetitive questions that you have from clients, so you just upload all of your base knowledge to there, and they, I know how to answer the client for you, so yes, 

How to Join the One Woman Show Community 

Dr. Barbara Hales 15:58 

How can people find you if they would like to join the one-woman show, and can anybody join? 

Ronnie Toronto 16:12 

Everyone can join. I know that I’m speaking only for women, but I think that men also, if they need help, I would be more happy to help them, and you can find me in LinkedIn as Ronnie Toronto. And also, if you have school or you want to sign up for school, you just search One Woman Show AI, and you can find me there. Yeah, 

Expanding the Community Beyond Women 

Dr. Barbara Hales 16:38 

okay. Well, you’ll also be able to see that in the, in the show notes, but if a guy approached you, he said, “Well, I know that you have this thing going on for women, but I’d like to learn too. So, you would accept them into the pack. 

Ronnie Toronto 16:55 

Yes, I might even open a new pack, a new community for everyone. 

Ronnie Toronto 17:00 

Yeah, I would be happy to help everyone. Yeah, 

Final Advice and Closing Remarks 

Dr. Barbara Hales 17:04 

okay. Great. Is there any last bit of advice that you would like to say that I didn’t ask, or did we go 

Ronnie Toronto 17:15 

on? I think no, I think I. I hope I have explained everything clearly. Yeah, 

Dr. Barbara Hales 17:24 

Well, you know, listeners, if there’s something that you’re unsure of, then we are giving you the way to reach Ronnie, and you could just ask her directly. So, thank you very much for being on the show today. This has been another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors with your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Till next time. 

Ronnie Toronto 17:53 

Thank you. 

In this episode, Dr. Corey Malnikof discusses: 

Key Takeaways: 

“Marketing works best when it comes from authenticity. If you truly love helping people, then marketing simply becomes sharing that passion with your community.” – Dr. Corey Malnikof 

“Scaling a practice requires systems, leadership, and the willingness to step into uncertainty before growth happens.” – Dr. Corey Melnikov 

“Doctors don’t always need bigger budgets to grow. Many of the best patient acquisition strategies are free and relationship-driven.” – Dr. Corey Malnikof

Connect with Corey Malnikof

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

TRANSCRIPTION (241)

Building a Patient-Focused Chiropractic Brand 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“Welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Today, you’re in for a rare treat. We have Dr. Corey Malnikov here with us. He is the CEO of Palmer Care Group, a healthcare organization operating 24 chiropractic clinics across the whole United States. He is an entrepreneur, speaker, and leader known for building high performing teams, scalable systems, and world class patient experiences. Today we’re going to dive into what actually works when it comes to marketing for doctors, how to attract the right patients, grow your practice, and build something that truly scales. Welcome to the show.” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Thank you for the introduction. Always fun to hear all of that in 111 share. Thank you.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“When you first started out, did you see patients at that time?” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Yeah, no, I was a.. I’ve been in practice for 21 years. I saw patients probably up to about seven or eight years ago, I had about 10 clinics at the time, and so I was a full-time guy. I loved seeing patients that they literally had to kind of rip it out of my hands for me to stop, but I kept cutting back. I kept.. I went from full-time to Monday, Wednesdays, and then just Mondays, and then I think I got to the point where I had a patient laying down, I was listening to what my doctors were saying, I was listening to the front desk, I was thinking about the other clinics, and I just felt bad for not being there 100% for the patients, and so, yeah, it’s been probably seven eight years, and I’ve been running the clinics instead of in it, but is there a long time?” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“What made your practice unique in compared to other chiropractic offices around? Did you have multiple streams of income? Where were there additional services that others didn’t provide? Were there products that you felt your patients could use? Like, what is it that made you different,” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“yeah. And I will say, you know, with 24 clinics, you know, when doctors are into different things, we do have all sorts of different techniques and instruments and things that we use on patients, but really, what makes us different is I always tried to create this atmosphere, you know, I was a big Starbucks junkie in the beginning, you know, and I was trying to open a practice, and you know, I thought I’d graduate, put a shingle up, you know, the Red Sea would part, patients would line up, I’d take care of them, and the reality, like most, most entrepreneurs find out, is you open up, and then you know nothing. So I studied a lot, I studied Amazon, I studied Nordstrom, I studied the Ritz, I studied Disney, and I studied Starbucks, and Starbucks talked about how Starbucks was meant to be the third home, right? You had home, you had work, and then Starbucks,” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“but no, I thought no drive-through, right?” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Right, exactly, no drive-thru, but I thought, you know, a chiropractic clinic, a wellness clinic, should be the third home, not Starbucks. And so I kind of wanted to create this atmosphere, and I was always really big into personal and professional development for my doctors, for my staff, and even for my patients. So we tried to build a place, and we always talked about when patients come into our place, if their anxiety is high, we’re going to lower their anxiety to peace, and if their energy is low, we’re going to bring their energy up. And so for us, it was all about the experience, the second you walked through the door, the way you were greeted, the way you were treated, the way your case was managed, and how we kind of had an impact on every aspect of your life, emotional, physical, chemical, and treatment. And so that was the goal, and for me, that’s what’s made us different. It’s just the culture and the place we created,” 

Scaling From One Clinic to 24 Locations 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“that’s wonderful. Now, before you had your first offshoot, you must have been a little bit nervous about doing that. Would opening up another location divide my patients, or would I succeed? You know, walk me through that, and how, and how you did succeed.” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Yeah, I had no intentions of having 24 clinics. I had every intention of opening one clinic and trying to make it as successful as humanly possible, being a big part of the community and making that who I was. The reality was I opened a clinic, didn’t know what I was doing, figured out what I was doing, and then very fast grew it. I had been renting a room while I was waiting for my clinic to get built with from another chiropractor, and when he kind of saw how fast I built it, he said, “You know, my friend is selling a practice, I’ll go buy it, I just need you, you can be 5050 partners, no money, and you just fix it, and so that second clinic. Was just kind of like I couldn’t do anything else in my current clinic. My wife was about to join me, so we couldn’t, we couldn’t fit any more patients there. So the second clinic was like literally completely unpredicted, but man, it was fun.

You know, I got to drive down, I was about 45 minutes away, go to this clinic that was, you know, pretty much failing, and then take it from where it was and grow it up, and so, yes, it was scary, but I’ll tell you, the scarier step wasn’t that second one, because the first one was successful, the second one was just fixing, but I went from two clinics to four clinics in a blink, and the scary part of that was, you know, I had no money, and then I started to make a little bit of money. Then we got the second clinic, and then I started to make a little bit more money, and I got four clinics, and I have negative money. So that was where I learned about the scariness of expansion. You know, when you, when you want to expand and you want to scale, you just, you have to be willing to step into this world of fear, where you’re going to take a few steps backwards before you step forwards, and that’s kind of been not to go off subject, but that’s been the whole thing, right? I went from money to no money, and then from four clinics to 10 clinics, where I went way backwards, and then got caught up, and then from 10 clinics to 20 clinics, and every time we make a massive growth, now I have to expect that fear and expect that, and just be willing to make that jump and be prepared.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“What’s really interesting is, I think many people hearing your story would think, well, by the time you got to the second or third one, you had, you had it down, and it was just going to be gravy after that.” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Yeah, yeah. No, you know, it changes, you know. Five clinics is you right? I can see patients full time and still have my fingers on everything, but it’s not me anymore, right? There has to be a C suite. There has to be an infrastructure that I built and pay for for people to run our systems and run our marketing and run our HR and to run our everything, so with every clinic you add, you are limiting your ability to accomplish the job that you would normally do, and now you have to replace yourself with somebody who is paid and trained by you, so it’s a learning curve, because none of us, you know, on this podcast, I think your listeners, the doctors, none of us are trained entrepreneurs, trained businessmen, trained business women, we just have to learn as we go and study as hard as we can, and all of it’s a learning curve, but it’s a fun ride if you take” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“it, when you started realizing that other people would be taking over the roles that you once were actively doing. Did you feel bad about it, or were you just so excited that it didn’t matter?” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“No, no, you know, you don’t want to let go of those. You grip them, death grip those. Not only do you not want to give them up, but then you know you have to learn very quickly that you can’t micromanage, right? So, like, I’m going to allow you to do second interviews and decide if this person has the ability to do the job, and I have to be able to, like, not give my approval on every employee that gets hired, and that is a very difficult thing to do, so no, every step along the way, every time you hand something off, you know, yes, you watch it a bit in the beginning, but you have to have the ability to not watch it if you want to grow, and that’s very difficult.” 

Marketing Strategies That Actually Work for Doctors 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“So, what would you say to them about that?” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Yeah, so there’s so much, it’s never ending. I mean, you know this with all the people that are on this podcast, there’s just so much great stuff out there, but it really, for me, becomes very dependent on geography, because digital marketing is absolutely amazing, and it is so deep now. I mean, yes, you can do Instagram posts, Facebook posts, LinkedIn posts, Twitter posts, YouTube posts, there’s Google post, there’s Google ads, and all that stuff works amazingly. You’ve got to learn all of that and use all of that, but there’s some geographies, like I have some geographies in Texas, that are, have such a congested digital footprint, like so many people in that congestion, that the ROI and the responses for that, you know there’s no way I could scale clinics there if that was what we did, so like in Northern Virginia, I’ll spend a lot of money on Google Local and Google Ads, and on boosts on some of our social media, so that would become very well known in the, in the neighborhoods, versus you know, in Texas, what works very well is being out in the community, meeting all the professionals that I can refer to, and that can refer to me, that are doing health screenings at different health fairs, that are doing lunch and learns in different companies, and so we use all kinds of tactics. Now, do I also do some digital marketing in Texas? Of course, but I don’t spend a lot, and do I also do all the other things in Northern Virginia? Yes, but I don’t push it a lot, you know. You’ve got to figure out what’s working. I think you know when I talk to people on the phone and they’re trying to get their marketing to work. I think part of the problem is they’ve got 15 different things going, and then these don’t work, so they try this and this doesn’t work, so they try this. You know, you got to focus in, and if, if, if somebody else can get this marketing to work in your area, so can you. So, instead of quitting it, dive into it, you know, learn why, why it’s not working, what you can do to make it work.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“Absolutely, and you know people are, so you know, scrambling for AI in their practice, without realizing that some of the old school techniques really work the best, and that it’s not something that they should forget about. People, after all, want to have a relationship with you, they want to actually see you, talk to you and hear what your views are, so you know, getting out there and introducing yourselves to people, both you know, prospective patients, but also to physicians in the area that can refer to you.” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Yeah, doctors and professional referrals. I mean, we talked to this about our doctors all the time, if the only thing you did was have two lunches a week with referral partners, and you did that every week, you’d have 104 lunches a month, and if 10% of those people like you, that’d be 10 people sending you patients every month. So there’s professional referrals, is one of the most amazing things. I will say old school is kind of funny, because we just started doing some postcards again. Now that’s from like a decade ago. I’m going to tell you, the response, the response in some of our areas on like these postcards is insane. So, there is some old school stuff.” 

AI, Social Media, and Modern Healthcare Marketing 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“And AI, I right now, by the way, also, I mean, I know everybody wants to dive into it, and I think they should. AI, right now, is the wild wild west, because there’s nobody knows for sure, but we do know that feeding it, and doing, you know, AI, oh, doing, doing the search engine optimization, which is now for AI, is absolutely amazing. I think if I can give one piece of advice on something like AI, and even, you know, social media marketing, and things like that, I think that doctors, because we were, we want to be doctors, and that we don’t want to be the professional marketer. Too many times, doctors will go out and find this is the best company to do AI marketing for me. This is the best company to do lead generation for me, and they like hand it off and forget it. So, the one thing I would say is you’ve got to learn it right, and it’s not that hard. You can jump on YouTube and say, you know, put in a video, teach me how to do AI SEO, you can go into Chat GPT and just say, “Tell me the top 100 things I need to know. You really have to learn how to do it. So, I always like lead generation AI. I learn how to do it to the point that I’m dangerous enough that I could do it, and then I don’t. And then I hire a company, because then I can watch what they’re doing, and I can make pivots, and I can give suggestions, and I don’t just take the results for what they are. So, so get into AI marketing, get into all this stuff, but for the love of God, know what you’re doing first.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“Absolutely. How actively involved are you in creating videos for your patients on the sites” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“I I’m actively involved in, and by that I mean like maybe twice a month I get with our social media people, and they shoot videos with me, so that’s about as active as I am. And then they do all the editing and posting and everything for group, which is kind of the umbrella. The individual clinics is me giving them what I want them to record and do right, and then I have a separate crew that then edits and posts those, but at the end of the day I’m really just looking at how many posts are we doing, when are they going up, what are the statistics, what are the results. So I’m all KPI driven.” 

Advice for Doctors Growing Their Practice 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“That’s great, so what advice would you give to our, you know, physicians and chiropractors that are listening today? You know, like two pieces of advice that they could implement right away.” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Yeah, well, number one, you know, when I talk to chiropractors and they’re like, I don’t have enough new patients, or I talked to functional medicine, I talked to any of these guys, and I don’t have enough new patients, right. And then it’s, I don’t have the budget for it, because there’s, there’s so much stuff that’s free. You can right now shoot videos and post it on six different platforms. You can right now go stop by an office and drop your cards and meet a professional. You can right now go bring bagels and coffee to a bank before they open. Introduce yourself and tell them about your clinic. There’s so many free things you can do right now. If you don’t have enough new patients, it is just because you are not trying hard enough. It exists. You just have to do it, and no one can make you do it. But you could post 50 posts on social media right now, if you wanted to, right, and talk about who you are, you know, talk about what you do, and your community will absolutely love it. And then, you know, the only other thing I would tell you is, you know, have a goal, like, okay, I don’t have enough new patients for the love, like, what is enough new patients, and why did you pick that number, like, and if that’s your number, give me the action steps of how you’re going to get it. So, there’s a million ways to get new patients, right? If you, if you’re stuck and your brain is like, I can’t come up with one, then go on Chat GPT, Chat GPT, and say, give me 25 ways to get new patients right now that cost me nothing, and then you can do it, but work towards a goal, right? Say, I want 27 new patients this month, and here’s the action steps I’m going to do. You do those two things. I just don’t know how you can’t have enough new patients.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“Do you have a program yet on how to instruct physicians to follow in your footsteps?” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Yeah, that’s good question. No, right. So we have all the programs for all of our doctors and CAS, you know. For me, right now, it’s just that there’s so many people that reach out about what we’re doing. My thought process was, let me just give it out for free, let me answer any questions. There’s really nothing for me to gain from this, except for, hey, doctors are helping a whole lot of people. I want you to help a lot of people. I want you to do more, and if I can be of any help for you to do that, then do it. Use me.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales: 

“That’s wonderful. So, what else would you like to tell our listening audience that maybe I haven’t touched upon lately, you know? Yet,” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov: 

“Well, you know, your podcast is marketing. You know, the only, the only other thing I’ll say about. Marketing is this. I’ve always looked at marketing is, you know, if you love what you do, if you absolutely love what you do, then marketing is just your extension of your love for what you do out into the community. And how many different ways can you come up with doing that? And if that’s what you’re doing, if the only thing you’re really doing is sharing what you love with the community, because you know it will make an impact. Then all of the negative things that we think of when it comes to marketing, the sales process, the I don’t want to do this, I don’t want to do that, all that goes away because the second you are locked in to all I want to do is help, then that’s all you’re ever doing, you’re just offering your value, and because it’s coming from such an authentic place, it works. It just works, you know. I used to go out to health screenings, and my goal was I wanted to meet one person that I could show them an alternative to maybe a surgery they were doing, and because the only thing I was doing, they were sitting there talking to people about health and wellness. I ended up with all these new patients. It just has to be authentic. You just have to figure out why this means so much to you, and then all you have to do is share that, and that’s all marketing is. It’s just you sharing who you are with the world.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales   

“That is wonderful advice. And with that, I would like to thank you for coming here. And listeners, this is, you know, a great guy, as you have seen and heard, and his company is called Palmer Care Group, and you can reach out to him at Palmer Care group.com We’ll also have that in the show notes, in case you don’t know how to spell it, or you probably forget it, as I have said it, but you know this guy has some great moves, and you need to see what he’s done and follow along. If you do that, you’re sure you’re sure there’ll be bumps, but you know what, you’re sure to meet with success. So, thank you so much for being on the show today with us, Corey” 

Dr. Corey Melnikov   

“Thanks for having me.” 

Dr. Barbara Hales  22:10   

“This has been another episode of Marketing Tips with the Doctors, with your host Dr. Barbara Hales and Dr. Corey Malnikof. Till next time,” 

In this episode, Barbara discusses: 

Key Takeaways: 

“The future belongs to physicians who learn how to combine technology with humanity, not one or the other.” – Dr. Barbara Hales

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

TRANSCRIPTION (240)

Introduction: Can Doctors Survive This? 

Dr. Barbara Hales 0:02 

Hey, welcome to another episode of marketing tips for doctors. I’m your host. Dr. Barbara Hales, today, we’re talking about something that many physicians are quietly asking themselves right now: Can doctors survive this? And when I say this, I mean the exhaustion, the bureaucracy, the endless charting, the emotional depletion, the inbox overload, the pressure to see more patients in less time, and now, artificial intelligence entering medicine at lightning speed. Some doctors are excited about AI. Some are terrified of it, and many are simply too burnt out to even think about it. But today, I want to talk about AI differently, not as a threat, not as science fiction, but as a tool that may actually help restore some of the humanity medicine has been losing for years, because, let’s be honest, most physicians are not burned out because they stopped caring. They’re burnt out because they care deeply inside a system that often makes caring harder and harder to sustain. And I think that distinction matters. So today we’re going to talk honestly about physician burnout. What AI is actually doing right now, what concerns me, what gives me hope, and why the future may belong to physicians who combine humanity with technology instead of fearing one or the other. 

The Real Problem: The Machinery of Medicine 

Dr. Barbara Hales 3:24 

The real problem, you know, when people outside medicine imagine physician burnout, they often assume doctors are exhausted because medicine itself is emotionally difficult. And yes, of course it is. We deliver bad news. We carry enormous responsibility. We witness suffering. But strangely enough, that’s usually not the part physicians complain about most. What many doctors are truly exhausted by is everything surrounding medicine, the machinery of medicine, the clicks, the forms, the documentation, the prior authorization, the inbox messages, and the constant interruption of human connection by administrative overload. I’ve heard physicians say I spend more time talking to my computer than my patients, and honestly, that’s heartbreaking, because medicine was never supposed to feel like data entry with a stethoscope. 

I once spoke with a physician who told me something that stayed with me for a very long time. He said I realized one day that I barely look patients in the eyes anymore, not because he didn’t care, not because he was cold, but because he was trying to survive the pace, typing, clicking, documenting, trying not to fall Behind, trying not to drown, and he said the moment that really shook him happened when a patient stopped talking in the middle of a visit and finally said, Doctor, are you listening? That hit him hard because he was listening, but the patient couldn’t feel it. And honestly, I think that’s one of the great tragedies of modern medicine, not that doctors stopped caring, but that the system slowly began interfering with the visible expression of caring. The eye contact, the stillness, the presence, the humanity. 

AI as a Tool to Replace Friction, Not Physicians 

Now here’s where things get interesting, because the same technology many physicians fear may actually help restore some of what we lost and before anyone panics, no, I do not believe AI is replacing physicians, at least not good physicians, not thoughtful physicians, not emotionally intelligent physicians, not doctors capable of judgment, ethics, intuition, empathy and trust building, but AI is beginning to replace friction, and that matters Right now. AI is helping physicians with charting documentation. Note, generation, administrative tasks, patient education, marketing, scheduling, and communication. And if that sounds small, you haven’t been in medicine lately, this is all administrative work, because reducing just one hour of nightly charting can feel life changing to an exhausted position. 

AI Scribes and the End of “Pajama Charting” 

One of the most promising uses of AI in medicine is the AI scribe: instead of physicians spending hours typing notes and navigating electronic medical records, AI can now listen during patient visits and generate documentation in real time. That means doctors can maintain eye contact, focus on the patient instead of the screen, and often finish charting before they even leave the office. Miracle of miracles for many physicians, this could dramatically reduce the exhausting pajama charting that steals evenings, weekends, and personal time. AI isn’t replacing the physician’s judgment. It’s removing the administrative friction that has slowly drained energy and humanity from medical practice. 

I recently heard about a physician who started using an AI documentation tool during patient visits. At first, she resisted it. She thought, I don’t want a robot in the exam room. Fair concern. But after a few weeks, she noticed something surprising. She was finishing notes before leaving the office for the first time in years. No more logging back in at 10 pm, no more pajama charting, no more sitting in bed, exhausted with a laptop, balanced on her knees, trying to finish documentation before midnight. And what struck me most was not what she said about productivity, but about her family. She said my children stopped asking me why I was always working. That’s not a technology story. That’s a humanity, a humanity story. And I think we need to start looking at AI through that lens. Not only can it replace us, but it can also help us reclaim our lives. 

AI for Content Creation and Online Presence 

Now, let’s talk about something many physicians know they should be doing, but often don’t have time for, content creation, patient education, social media, videos, blogs, newsletters, most doctors are already overwhelmed just trying to survive the work day. The idea of consistently posting online can feel impossible, but AI is beginning to change that, too. AI tools can now help physicians generate post ideas, create captions, organize educational content, and repurpose long videos into short. Clips, draft newsletters, and simplify medical information into patient-friendly language, and honestly, this matters more than many doctors realize, because patients today are searching online long before they ever schedule an appointment, and the physicians who communicate clearly online are often the physicians patients trust first. 

AI-Enabled Patient Education and Teaching Videos 

AI is also transforming patient education itself, with past educational videos often requiring expensive equipment, editors, designers, lighting scripts, and hours of production time. Now, AI can help physicians create teaching videos quickly and efficiently. Imagine a cardiologist creating a simple animated explanation of high blood pressure, a pediatrician generating a short video on fever management for anxious patients, or a gastroenterologist sending a post-procedure recovery video for patients to watch at home. These tools allow physicians to educate patients at scale while still maintaining their own voice and expertise, and better education often leads to better compliance, less confusion, less anxiety, and stronger patient Trust. 

Let’s look at the patient who finally understood. I heard about a physician who kept running into the same problem. He would spend 15 or 20 minutes carefully explaining diagnoses, medications, treatment plans, and lifestyle changes to patients, and by the next visit, many still felt confused or overwhelmed, not because they weren’t intelligent, but because patients are often anxious during appointments. They forget details, they mishear, and they leave things emotionally overloaded. So this physician started experimenting with short AI-assisted educational videos. After each visit, patients would receive a brief, two or three-minute video explaining their condition in simple, easy-to-understand language; some included animations, and some reviewed medications. Others explained symptoms to watch out for or how lifestyle changes could improve outcomes. And something remarkable happened. Patients became more engaged, more compliant, and less anxious. Staff phone calls decreased because many common questions had already been answered. But what really struck him was when an elderly patient said, “Doctor, this is the first time I actually understood what’s happening in my body.” That was powerful because AI didn’t replace the physician in that story; it amplified the physician’s ability to educate, reassure, and connect. 

Automated Patient Communication and Self-Scheduling 

Another area where AI may significantly improve both efficiency and patient satisfaction is in automated. Patient communication, AI-powered chatbots can already answer many simple, repetitive questions that flood medical offices every day, such as office hours, refills, policies, insurance participation, directions, pre-visit instructions, Portal, access, and follow-up information. And at the same time, many patient portals now allow patients to schedule their own appointments online without waiting on hold or speaking to front desk staff. That’s huge for me. I remember waiting a good 20 to 25 minutes before I got someone in the office who could actually give me an appointment. This doesn’t replace staff. It frees staff to focus on more complex patient needs and higher-level personal interactions. When used correctly, technology can reduce frustration on both sides of health care. 

The Danger Zone: Protecting Humanity in Medicine 

Let’s take a look at the danger zone now, with all that said, there are legitimate concerns and positions should absolutely be thoughtful and cautious, because medicine cannot become emotionally automated. There are things AI cannot replicate: compassion, intuition, emotional nuance, trust, moral judgment, and human presence. Patients do not heal simply because information was delivered correctly. Patients heal through connection, through reassurance, through feeling seen, and my concern is not that AI will replace good physicians. My concern is that systems may try to use AI to strip medicine down to efficiency alone and medicine without humanity becomes cold, mechanical, transactional, forgettable, we cannot allow that to happen. 

The Future: Human-First, Technology-Assisted Care 

I truly believe the future belongs to physicians who learn how to combine technology with humanity, not one or the other. Moving forward, the smartest doctors will not be blindly anti-AI, nor will they be blindly dependent on it. They will be balanced, curious, intentional, human-first, technology-assisted. And honestly, I think that’s where medicine is heading, not physician versus machine, but physician plus machine, with the physician remaining the center of trust, judgment, empathy, wisdom, and healing. 

And if this conversation resonates with you, whether you’re a physician, health care leader, or someone simply trying to understand where medicine is heading. I’d love for you to subscribe, share this episode, and join our growing community here on marketing tips for doctors, because these Conversations Matter, and the more honestly we talk about burnout, technology, humanity and the future of healthcare, the better chance we have of building a medical system that works not only for patients, but for the people caring for them. Thank you so much for being here today. This has been another episode of marketing tips for doctors with your host, Dr Barbara Hales, see you next time. Thanks. 

In this episode, Barbara discusses: 

Key Takeaways: 

“Responsible medical podcasts don’t ask for blind belief; they give people the clarity and context to think critically and make wiser health decisions.” 

Connect with Barbara Hales: 

LinkedIn: https://www.LinkedIn.com/in/barbarahales

Books:

TRANSCRIPTION (239)

 Introduction & Why This Podcast Exists 

[0:00:02] Dr. Barbara Hales 

Welcome to another episode of marketing tips for doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. We are going to discuss why medical podcasts matter more than ever. You know, one of the questions I get asked a lot is, ” Why did you even start a podcast? And honestly, the answer has very little to do with marketing. This podcast was born out of frustration, concern, and ultimately hope, because over the years, I noticed something happening in healthcare that became impossible to ignore. Patients had more access to information than ever before, but somehow, they were becoming more confused. Doctors were exhausted. Patients felt rushed. Trust was slipping, and meaningful communication in medicine was quietly disappearing.

People were turning to the internet for answers about their health, and instead of clarity, they found fear, misinformation, extreme opinions, miracle cures, and influencers posing as medical experts. At the same time, many physicians had tremendous knowledge and experience, but no real platform to explain things calmly, clearly, and humanely, and I realized something very important: education has become part of healthcare itself. That’s where this podcast came from, not from ego, not from wanting attention, but from wanting to help people think more clearly about their health, because here’s the truth: most healthcare decisions are no longer made only in the exam room. They’re being influenced on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook groups, Google searches, and yes, podcasts, which means the quality of medical communication matters enormously now, and that’s why these conversations are important. 

 Authenticity, Trust & How Podcasts Connect 

[0:03:00] Dr. Barbara Hales 

People often ask why podcasts connect so deeply with audiences. And I think the answer is simple. People are starving for authenticity. They don’t want to be talked down to. They don’t want complicated medical jargon designed to impress other doctors, and they don’t want constant fear-based headlines screaming everything you’re doing is killing you. People want honesty. They want clarity. They want someone who can explain complicated things in a calm, intelligent, understandable way. And podcasts do something unique. They allow people to hear your tone, your compassion, your thoughtful process, and your humanity, which builds trust. Sometimes, patients feel like they already know a doctor after listening to several episodes; that connection matters because medicine works best when trust exists. How do podcasts help both doctors and patients?

For patients, education reduces fear when they understand their conditions, medications, risk factors, options, and the reasoning behind medical decisions; they feel empowered instead of helpless. Educated patients ask better questions. They participate more actively in their care, and in many cases, outcomes improve. But podcasts also help doctors. And I think this is something people don’t talk about enough. Many physicians went into medicine because they genuinely wanted to help people. But modern medicine can become incredibly transactional, with 15-minute appointments, endless documentation, insurance battles, burnout, and teaching. Reconnects doctors to purpose. It reminds physicians that communication itself can be healing, and honestly, sometimes one thoughtful conversation can help more people than an entire week of rushed office visits when podcasts disagree, then what? 

 When Podcasts Disagree & How Patients Should Respond 

[0:07:00] Dr. Barbara Hales 

Well, here’s where things get interesting. Patients will often hear two podcasts with opposite opinions. One says, Never eat carbohydrates. Another says plant-based nutrition is the answer. One says, Take this supplement. Another says that the supplement is useless. So how is the average person supposed to know who’s right first? Don’t panic. Different opinions in medicine do not automatically mean someone is evil or incompetent. Medicine is not mathematics. It involves science, clinical judgment, individual differences, risk-versus-benefit decisions, and evolving research. Reasonable experts can disagree, but patients need a framework for evaluating what they hear. So what should patients do? First? Never make major health decisions based on one podcast episode. A podcast should educate you. It should not replace personalized medical care. Second, be cautious of people who sound certain about everything. Real medicine usually contains nuance. If someone says this works for everyone, doctors are hiding the truth, or this cures everything, that should raise concern. Good Medicine acknowledges limitations, exceptions, uncertainty, and individuality. The third look at motivation is the person educating you or selling fear, because fear has become a business model online, and frightened people click very quickly. Now, let me tell you a story that beautifully shows how Podcasts can actually help patients when handled thoughtfully. 

 Success Story: Awareness, Not Self‑Diagnosis 

[0:11:00] Dr. Barbara Hales 

A woman in her late 50s had been listening to several health podcasts to improve her overall wellness. One episode discussed early warning signs of heart disease in women, not dramatic movie style, symptoms, subtle ones, fatigue, shortness of breath, jaw discomfort, exercise intolerance, and she realized she had quietly been experiencing several of those symptoms for months now. Here’s the important part: she didn’t panic. She didn’t diagnose herself online. She didn’t start taking random supplements. Instead, she used the information intelligently. She scheduled an appointment with her physician and said I heard a discussion that made me wonder if I should get evaluated. Her doctor took it seriously. Testing eventually revealed significant coronary artery disease. She needed intervention, and afterward, she said something incredibly powerful. The podcast didn’t save my life because it gave me treatment. It saved my life because it gave me awareness. That’s exactly what responsible medical education should do, not replace doctors, not create fear, but encourage thoughtful action. 

 Cautionary Tale, Confidence vs. Credibility & The True Purpose 

[0:15:00] Dr. Barbara Hales 

But now let me tell you the other side: a younger woman became convinced by several online personalities that all prescription medications were toxic. One podcast after another reinforced the same message: natural healing, only doctors overprescribe. You don’t need medication. So, without consulting her physician, she abruptly stopped her blood pressure medication. She felt proud, at first, empowered, like she had taken control, but several weeks later, her blood pressure skyrocketed, she developed severe headaches, dizziness, and eventually ended up in the emergency room with dangerously elevated blood pressure. Thankfully, she recovered. Others who do that wind up stroking out. But afterward, she admitted. Something important, I confused confidence with credibility, and that sentence stuck with me because sounding confident online does not automatically mean someone is correct. What is the real purpose of medical podcasts? The best medical podcasts do not demand blind trust. They encourage critical thinking. A good podcast should help patients ask better questions, recognize misinformation, feel calmer, and become partners in their health care. The goal should never be, believe me, blindly. The goal should be to become informed enough to make wiser decisions. That’s a very different mission.

So, if today’s conversation helped you see healthcare a little more clearly, share this episode with someone who may need it too, because informed patients and connected doctors create better medicine for everyone, and honestly, that’s exactly why this podcast exists. I’ll see you next time. This has been another episode of marketing tips for doctors with your host, Dr Barbara Hales. Till next time.