Marketing Upheaval

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. What a pleasure it was to speak with Xenia Muntean, the CEO of Planable. It's a content review and marketing collaboration platform. She had some sharp insights into how companies need to rethink how they get their social media content done. Like let's face it, social media can continue to be handled in a loose way. It's officially reached the grownup stage and requires the same type of processes and review is more established media and Xenia had some smart thoughts and solutions to that. I enjoyed her thinking and the conversation you will to check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Rudy Fernandez  0:47  

Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Xenia Muntean, co founder of Planable, a social media collaboration and approval platform for agencies and large brands. She was named in the Forbes 30 Under 30 list for 2019. She frequently speaks about social media content trends, including at Cannes. Xenia, is an expert on creating social media programs and has a lot of insights into content distribution and collaboration and how it could be better. So this is gonna be a great conversation. Thanks for joining me.

Xenia Muntean  1:19  

Well, thank you so much for inviting me as well. I'm excited to do this.

Rudy 1:23  

Well, first thing, before we talk about Planable, and social media content, you've had just, I think, an extraordinary meteoric career. I think you started your first social media company when you were still at university, I believe.

Xenia 1:39  

Yeah, that was an agency. So we're doing a lot of social media content production for our brands, and I started it during my second year of university.

Rudy  1:48  

So you started in Moldova, where you're from? And then went to Romania. And now it's just, it's just taken off.

Xenia  1:58  

Yeah, your research is very much on point.

Rudy  2:01  

Congratulations. So do you find that your age is a benefit when you approach new business? 

Xenia  2:11  

Yeah, that's a good question. I think, you know, in the beginning, I was thinking that people are going to oppose more to talking with me because I'm very young. I don't think it hurts anything. Because I'm building a software company. We are social media marketers, they are young as well. So I think it's even better. I think it helps. Because we're on the same page. You know, we are millenials. We don't like to work in Microsoft Outlook and Microsoft Office. You know, we - they can resonate with me and my mission at Planable.

Rudy 2:48  

Yeah, that's right. I think the younger generations have a much better handle on it. 

Xenia 2:52  

Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Rudy   2:54  

So tell listeners about Planable. Just so they know a little bit more about the company and what it does. 

Xenia   2:59  

So I started Planable, as you mentioned, after I had my own Social Media Marketing Agency, and I started the company together with my co founders, because all of us worked in the industry. And we were, frankly, a bit frustrated with how everyone was working in the industry. For the people that are not very familiar with how social media content planning happens....

For the complete transcript and show notes, visit: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/12/18/xenia-muntean-founder-ceo-of-planable/

Support the show

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In this episode we talked about creating a brand framework with Ed Farley. He knows a bit about that since he's lead branding for global brands like Anheuser Busch and Humana, United Way and Edelman Financial, four totally different industries. But the approach to create a strong global brand remains the same and eat, whether it's beer or insurance or financial services. He talks about creating a brand framework and how to balance the art and science when you're building your story. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Rudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Ed Farley, the global brand strategist who has been head of branding for huge brands like United Way, Humana and Anheuser Busch and has managed brands that extend across the US and around the world. And we're going to talk about that and what it takes to do that. Well, thanks for joining me, Ed, really excited to have you on the podcast.

Ed Farley: Hey, it's great to be here. Thanks.

Rudy: So you've seen marketing from a big global point of view. And obviously, you've seen these brands evolve over time. Often we talk about what's changed in marketing. But there are some things that have to stay true in terms of branding. And given your your scope and your understanding of branding. What do you think some things are, some elements that ought not change in order to have a strong brand?

Ed: It's an interesting question, because for industries, as you had mentioned, I constantly needed to walk around and in re-educate folks with whom I work on what is brand strategy, right? It's not branding, it's a strategy but doesn't need to change is the idea that you need a strategy to inform great work, great messaging, great consumer experience. And that's really all about a disciplined approach to create a brand strategy. And so what I would encourage everyone to do is think about how that strategy gets created and what kind of rigor and discipline goes into that strategy.

Rudy: When you say, you have to maintain that rigor to go into brand strategy, what are the some of the steps to make that happen?

Ed: A lot of people are talking about purpose-driven brand strategy. And that's important because reality of that is that in today's global marketplace, we've shifted from business to consumer marketing to consumer to business B to C to B to C to B. And so brands are now engaged in daily conversations with consumers who demand experiences on their own terms, and influence others to buy or not to buy. It has an impact on products and services and sales channel partners. And we've really got to remember that it all begins with a story, a story that has meaning and it resonates with audiences with whom you want to do business. You've got to establish the context of your brand strategy. And that requires some evaluation. The first type of evaluation that I would suggest is to understand your own perspective. Understand your own legacy, your history, get your stakeholder and leadership input into your brand strategy, understand your unified ambition, and your mission and vision and values....

To see the rest of the transcript, images and show notes, visit: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/12/11/ed-farley-global-brand-transformation-strategist/

Support the show

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. This is Part Two with Sandra Mackey, the Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secours Mercy Health, a large nonprofit hospital system that’s in seven states. We’re entering a whole new era of hospital business and hospital marketing. And these two episodes address them. In Episode Two, we talked about how hospitals can become the Center for Community Health, what competition from companies like Walmart will mean and how you can use marketing to improve patient experience. And of course, how you do all this while maintaining patient privacy. Anyway, check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Rudy Fernandez  0:51 

What do you think are some major changes in terms of how a brand like let’s say Bon Secours Mercy Health brands itself? What’s changed? In terms of how you engage people with that brand,

Sandra Mackey  1:04 

So Bon Secours Mercy Health is the parent company of two brands that sit underneath it. One is Bons Secours. The other one is Mercy Health. And so we look at sort of the individual attributes that those two brands bring. And again, we start with research and understanding what drives consumers. What are their current perceptions? And where do we have an opportunity to influence those perceptions of services that are provided by the health system. And so for starting there, and truly unpacking the things that drive consumers, it helps us to market to consumers in a way that is about engagement, rather than what we think they want to hear that will move the needle. And one example of that is I think, in the industry, it’s been a long recognized practice in the industry that there’s promotion of awards, “we’re the best in this”, “we’re the number one in that.” We don’t say one of how many, by the way – it could be one of a thousand.. 

Rudy Fernandez  2:09 

Yes, no, the chest thumpy stuff. Yes.

Sandra Mackey  2:12 

Yeah, exactly. In the top three…of three. You know, there’s a lot of self promotion around the health system that has occurred over time that I think consumers have gotten used to, based on research that we’ve done, consumers express fatigue around that type of marketing. Because there are so many of those awards recognitions out there. And I think that consumers start to question what does that really mean? Does that translate to a better experience? You know, who’s taking these surveys? Lots of questions that come up in their mind. And at the end of the day, what we have learned from that type of research is that those awards and recognitions are more about the health system than they are about the consumer. We have a shift in that philosophy. And we have really, you know, taken a completely new direction in the way that we engage with consumers. And what a concept we actually talk about the consumer, not about ourselves. Yeah, we want to be able to demonstrate that we understand what their greatest needs are and where they’re coming from and what they have gone through before they get even come through the door. And so our approach to branding has really taken on more of a consumer voice, I’d say than then we’ve ever done within our health system.

View the complete transcript, images and show notes at:

https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/12/04/sandra-mackey-cmo-of-bon-secours-mercy-health-part-2/

Support the show

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. I love these two episodes with Sandra Mackey, the Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secours Mercy Health, a large nonprofit hospital system that's in seven states. Now just for perspective, I read about healthcare, marketing and business for fun. So let that sink in for a minute. So for these two episodes, I recommend being late for work late picking up your kids, whatever you need to do to hear them. In this first episode, Sandra and I spoke about hospital consolidation and what that means for all of us and what that means in terms of marketing. We talked about how hospitals need to move more towards providing a continuum of health and what people treating healthcare the way they treat shopping for shoes means for marketing and hospitals. Our conversation was wonderful and actually a little weird for me. Let me explain. A few months ago, I presented to a small group of hospital marketing people my thoughts on the state of hospital business and marketing. I talked about how hospitals need to change dramatically from sick care to more platforms of health and how marketing can help them do that. It wasn't a very flattering talk. And at one point, I compared hospitals to going the way of Blockbuster Video unless they changed. And let's just say I didn't get a standing ovation. Anyway, when I spoke with Sandra, she was saying that her team is exploring many of those same thoughts, the ones I've been preaching to whomever would listen, she even made the Blockbuster Video comparison, which made me feel less crazy, and also gave me hope. The fact that this large hospital system is looking to a more robust future to serve people is exciting to me. Because with new technology, hospitals are in an ideal position to become so much more in the daily lives of the people they serve, and marketing could be core to that. Anyway, enough of all that, check out this episode. And welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Rudy:

Hey, welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Sandra Mackey, the Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secours Mercy Health, which is one of the country's largest healthcare organizations. They have 48 hospitals and serve people in seven states. Healthcare is a category that at Creative Outhouse we're pretty passionate about. And Sandra and I have worked together and known each other for a long, long time. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Thanks for joining us, Sandra.

Sandra Mackey:

Well, thank you, Rudy. It feels great to be back together again. It's been a long time. I'm thrilled to have been invited to join you on the show today.

Rudy Fernandez:

I think one of the industries that has had even more upheaval than marketing is healthcare, and you're at the center of both. So what are some of the huge changes taking place with regards to healthcare and healthcare marketing as it applies to let's say, hospital marketing? 

View the rest of the transcript, show notes and images at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/12/03/sandra-mackey-cmo-of-bon-secours-mercy-health-part-1-2/

Check out our healthcare creative marketing case studies at: https://creativeouthouse.com/healthcare/

Support the show

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. It's Thanksgiving and we know a lot of our listeners will be enjoying time with their families, or if not enjoying at least you're spending time with your families. Anyway, you can hear our next guest next week. It's Sandra Mackey, Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secours Mercy Health, a hospital, it's in seven states. And we really get into the future of healthcare and hospital marketing. So whether you're in healthcare, marketing, or ever plan to just use our healthcare system, check it out next week. This week, it's just me with some brief comments about what we've learned. And as a switch to our regular programming. I want to talk about what hasn't changed in terms of marketing. Let's go with the theme of what we're thankful for. It's appropriate for the holiday. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. 

A lot has changed in terms of marketing, but I'm most thankful for the one thing that hasn't changed. More on that in a few minutes. 

The first thing I'm grateful for is our guests, we released our 20th episode last week and man, we've talked about how customers have a deeper say in terms of brand, how people have lost faith in traditional institutions and why they're turning to brands to deliver their values. We talked about what's working and what isn't working in traditional PR and ad agencies. We learned about new technology and audience research. We learned about gaming music, higher education, food marketing, crisis, AI and martech, diversity and Inclusion, startups and 125 year old brands, B2B, B2C, and what happens when all these changes leave you looking for a job, and we're just getting started. So huge thanks to our guests, who have been so generous with their time and their brilliant insights. I've learned a lot from them. And if you haven't listened to all our episodes and want a little time away from your family, then go listen to some others. I guarantee you, each episode will give you something to take note of, it will open a new door in your mind. I know I'm better at my job because of our guests. 

I'm also grateful to our listeners. You know, when we started this, I admit, I had some pretty low expectations. I didn't know who was going listen to a marketing podcast. And what I'm seeing is, it's just amazing. We have listeners from around the world. Every week, we get more people subscribing, and sending us notes. It's just an extraordinary thing to see catch on and know that people are getting as much out of this as we are. You know, from what I've seen, our listeners and our guests have something in common. There are different types of people in the world. There are people who pretend to know things and maybe use jargon to hide the fact that they maybe don't know much. There are people who are afraid to ask questions because they're embarrassed because you know, you don't want to appear ignorant. Then there are other people, my people. People who don't know all the answers and there excited by that. I have a sense that our listeners fall into this group. And I know our guests do. Look at the list. They are CEOs, Presidents, CMOS, Founders - all brilliant and accomplished people. And you know what they have in common? They know a lot, because they're constantly asking questions. They're excited about the things they don't know yet.

View the rest of the transcript, images and shownotes from each episode at CreativeOuthouse.com/podcast. 

Support the show

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In this episode, I spoke with Dr. Jonathon Halbesleben about two areas at critical points of change. The first is the university system and how people are accessing it, and the other is a completely new way to view work life balance. Jonathon is the Dean of a very successful college, the College of Continuing Studies at the University of Alabama. Nationally, distance education has grown 14% while traditional admissions have shrunk 3%. And that continuing trend is going to cause a tremendous shift in terms of how we view universities, and Jonathon shared his view of what the future might look like. He's also a PhD in organizational psychology, with much of his studies and publications centered around workplace productivity and contentment. It was an enlightening conversation about work life balance, and why we should stop using that phrase. It's a great episode folks. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Transcript:

Rudy:
Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Dr. Jonathon Halbesleben. He's the Dean of the University of Alabama's very successful College of Continuing Studies, and a PhD in industrial psychology. Jonathon has written and edited 13 books and published numerous articles. His areas of focus have been workplace stress, work, family issues and employee engagement. He's a fellow of the American Psychological Association, and the Society for industrial and organizational psychology. So we have two areas that I'd like to talk about today. One is the growth and continuing education. And the other one is the trends in work life balance. Two topics, one expert guest, thank you for joining me, Jonathon.

Jonathon:
Thank you. I'm delighted to be with you. 

Rudy: 
So let's talk about continuing education we have - overall nationally I think enrollments are down 3% in a traditional University, but in continuing studies are up 15 percent What do you attribute that change to?

Jonathon:
You know, I think it's a couple of different things. But overall downward trend in enrollments is some of that's just demographics. It's true in Alabama. But it's true nationwide where we're now moving into the period where we're getting to very close to being about 18 years post recession. Yeah. And that was a time when people were maybe a little bit more reflective about having children, bringing children into the world. And so we're actually seeing declines in like, traditional 17-18 year old students that would be going to college. That definitely helps explain the downturns overall in college enrollment. With regard to the more of the distance learning or online education and those increases, I think a big part of it has been that people, they see that that you can get a good education that way. That it can be just as good as that experience you might get on campus, the experience might be different. I mean, you might not be going to football games and visiting the strip or whatever on your campus. But the education itself is just as high quality, but the cost is often lower.
Full transcript at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/11/20/jonathon-halbesleben-phd-dean-at-the-university-of-alabama-and-expe

Support the show

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In this episode I spoke with Rob Kischuk, CEO of Converge. It’s pretty amazing technology that automates your digital marketing reporting. First time I saw it, I thought, whoa, this changes things. Rob gave us some deep insights into which digital channels are working, how they’re working, and how best to make use of the flood of data marketers have access to these days. Rob is also the host of the popular Marketing Agency Leadership podcast, and we talked about podcasts have affected his business. Rob is super smart, which will become evident as you listen to the podcast. And to be honest, editing this episode was tough because of all the useful information. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Transcript:
Rudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Rob Kischuk, CEO of Converge. It’s a brilliant marketing technology company that automates digital marketing reporting. Rob is also the host of the Marketing Agency Leadership podcast, which is listed in the top 15 podcasts for agency owners and executives. Rob was the one who inspired me to create this podcast. So we’re going to talk about both of those worlds digital and audio. Thanks for joining me, Rob. 

Rob: Thank you so much. It’s great to be able to join you.

Rudy: Just for listeners. Can you tell me a little bit about Converge and what it does?

Rob: Sure Converge automates the process of generating marketing reports across digital social, offline marketing channels. This is something people in some companies will spend days every week or weeks every month, doing the same thing, just a treadmill of reporting for their clients, we really want to help them focus on locking in the methodology in the data collection and make all that automatic, so they can focus on being smart humans and actually make good solid recommendations to clients using their brains instead of just using their hands to slap spreadsheets into PowerPoint

Rudy: So what platforms

Rob: Really anything you can imagine. A very small digital agency might use very simple core stuff: Google Analytics, AdWords, Google Search Console for SEO, let’s say Facebook, Instagram paid and organic Twitter, that sort of thing. And then you can get very robust and complex into high end SEO platforms like BrightEdge, you can get all the leads into internal CRM data, or even custom databases depending on the needs of the client.

Rudy: And I’ve seen it – it’s all on a dashboard. Yeah, easy to use, actually pretty cool. Actually you had a really nice story about getting funding from Mark Cuban back before you were converge. Yeah, tell listeners about that. It’s pretty cool story.

Rob: Sure. So my wife decided one year that I was born in Indiana. She didn’t decide that but she observed that I was born in Indiana and I liked football. And that was the year the Super Bowl was in Indianapolis. So she got all of my family to basically pool in money for my birthday and Christmas that year. And when I go somewhere, I’m not really good at taking a lot of time off. I’m always looking for a way to do something that can move the business forward.
Full transcript at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/11/13/rob-kischuk

Support the show

How much do artists promote and get paid for their music? How does Elton John write a song? Matt talks about the music industry from a creative’s POV.
Visit www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast for complete shownotes and transcripts of every episode.

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. And this episode I spoke with Matt Still, a Grammy Award winning engineer and music producer. Matt has worked with people like Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Santana. He's worked with OutKast, Lady Gaga, and the list goes on and on - from legends to new artists. Matt and I have known each other for a long time, and I always enjoy talking with him. We talked about how he got started. We talked about the changes in music and the rights of artists, because Matt also advocates for the rights of performers and artists, which I admire. So I think people who make music have these magic powers that create this miraculous thing that profoundly affects us emotionally, makes us think and affects our lives. We talked about that too. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Transcript
Rudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Matt Still, Matt is a Grammy Award winning music producer and engineer. He's a national trustee for the Recording Academy and an artist in residence at Kennesaw State University. In his 25 plus years in the music industry, he's seen a lot of things change, and he's managed to change with them. So we're going to talk about that. Thanks for joining me, Matt.

Matt: Thanks for having me.

Rudy: So, I'm going to just for the listeners, start with shameless name dropping, if that's okay, because you're pretty modest guy, but I don't think you ought to be. You work with Elton John. Yes, you've worked with OutKast, Fallout Boy, Lady Gaga, Rod Stewart, Santana, Allison In Chains, BB King, Arrested Development, TLC. You've worked with Stevie Wonder and Patty LaBelle. Then it goes on and on and on. So how does a kid who grew up in Georgia and loved music grow up and become a guy who works with all these legends.

Matt: Well, I've been in music my entire life. I started playing the piano and taking classical piano lessons at the age of four. So music was always a part of everything I did. And I never really thought about doing anything other than music. Yeah, you know, really, and I wanted to be I wanted to be the performer. I wanted to be the next Elton John. My mom bought me an Elton John songbook, but when I was a teenager. I think it's kind of ironic that I'm actually been working with him for over 26 years now. But I wanted to be the performer. And I remember when I was in bands in high school and in college, and we go into recording studios, and the recordings never came out sounding the way I wanted.

Check out the complete transcript and shownotes at https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/11/06/matt-still-grammy-winning-audio-engineer-and-producer/

Support the show

How does a 125-year-old brand stay cutting edge? Kathy talks about UL’s purpose and structure to keep up in dozens of vertical B2B markets.

Check out all our all episodes: www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. I had a great conversation with Kathy Seegebrecht, the Chief Marketing Officer of UL or what used to be known as Underwriters Laboratories. It's the largest independent testing laboratory in the world. They test for safety, security and sustainability. And the thing that amazes me is that every day you, me, everyone, we all use products and services they test. Yet it's not as if they're top of mind. So I wanted to hear from Kathy about that. I also wanted to know how you market a 125 year old company in new areas without sounding outdated. What's the secret to staying on top for 125 years? Spoiler alert, it's all about living the company's purpose. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Transcript:

Rudy Fernandez  0:56
Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Kathy Seegebrecht, Chief Marketing Officer of UL, which used to be known as Underwriters Laboratories. UL is the largest independent testing laboratory in the world. And chances are, you use products and services they test for safety, security and sustainability. In her four years at UL, Kathy has expanded and evolved the role of marketing there, and we're going to talk about that. So thank you for joining me, Kathy.

Kathy Seegebrecht  1:21 
Great. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. I'm excited to talk about UL, one of my favorite topics.

Rudy Fernandez  1:26
UL the certification approval - it's ubiquitous, and we all use products and services that you've touched somehow, just really top level: automotive, lighting, mobility, technology, building materials, healthcare, energy, utilities, financial transactions, it's everywhere, all sorts of consumer products. But here's my first question is: Given all that, as a CMO, who is your customer?

Kathy Seegebrecht  1:51 
We certainly have a very broad customer base. We service clients who buy products and wants to know if it's safe, secure or sustainably sourced. We have clients that sell products, who want to know if it meets regulations, where they want to sell it. And then we have clients who make products, who want to know all of those things. So our customers include brand owners, retailers, manufacturers and banking institutions. And that really just names some of the bigger client categories. We're firmly a B2B company. However, consumers are also really interested in what we do, and they benefit from our work, so thus you can see I've got the challenge as marketing all of those services, all of those various customer bases.

Rudy Fernandez  2:26 
That's really what I wanted to get into. That seems overwhelming. How do you reach your customers or engage with them?

Kathy Seegebrecht  2:35
It's interesting because our customer base actually gets even more complex when you get down to the persona level. So we work with a variety, wide variety of customers whose titles range from quality assurance, regulatory compliance, workplace health and safety.

The rest of the transcript is available at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/10/30/kathy-seegebrecht-cmo-of-ul-underwriters-laboratories-o

Support the show

Visit www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast for complete show notes, transcripts and images from all of our episodes.

Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In part two of my conversation with Brett Bruen, we talked about - what else -  politics and the upcoming 2020 elections. Brett worked for President Barack Obama as the head of Global Engagement and frequently speaks about politics and crises. Hearing his ideas and how candidates need to communicate was awesome. He gets into what President Trump does well, that has led to his success in politics. impeachment proceedings, notwithstanding that part for me coalesced so many different ideas about the president and his brand. Anyway, check this out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.

Transcript:
Rudy Fernandez  0:47  Brett, I wanted to take advantage of having you on the podcast to ask you about the upcoming political contest. This is going to be an enormous campaign season. So what are some basics every candidate ought to know in regards to crisis because you know, they're going to be encountering something.

Brett Bruen  1:05  Oh, absolutely, I think you should, first and foremost, have a pretty intrusive investigation into not only things that you may have said or did, but what could, as we've seen so many examples recently of videos or audio that has been sliced and diced to suggest that you said something or did something, even if in actual fact you didn't. Same goes for your cyber security. And we saw this play out in the French Presidential campaign where the Russians engaged in this kind of tactics. They hacked into the McCrone presidential campaign emails and you know, you will often see companies and we've got clients that have very high tech secure communication systems, but their employees are still sharing information on personal email and personal social media accounts on apps that is very insecure. And so understanding those vulnerabilities and not just building better security protocols and the like, but preparing for those eventualities where you might have to be in a situation where you're battling against truly fabricated information. And how you do that how you ensure that you're not on the defensive as I think the McCrone campaign was. It's a case study that U.S. candidates should really look closely at to glean some of the ways in which they anticipated and they prepared for that. I'd also say the challenge these days of the media environment being so intense and so occupied with whatever is the newest new news, and it's tough to get in there and it's tough to try a breakthrough. We've seen presidential candidates struggle with this. The old tactics, the old tradecraft of campaigning really does need to be rethought. And I think Elizabeth Warren is one example of, her sort of selfie political campaign strategy of, just getting as many selfies as you can. So you're spreading throughout this social network of all of the people who've attended your events. I think you got to get more creative.

Read the full transcript at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/10/23/brett-bruen-of-global-situation-room-on-crisis-management-in-politics-part-2/

Support the show