mbanerjeepalmer+listennotes 's Listen Later

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Today's show:

Delegating is its own unique skill, requiring training and a real investment of time and attention.

On TWiST, Jason chats for a full hour with the founder of one of his favorite startups, Athena, which trains online assistants and pairs them with busy founders and executives. (Jason has 2!)

But getting the MOST out of your executive assistants is less obvious than it looks. Jonathan unpacks some of the secrets to "Black Diamond Delegating," and how he manages to keep 6 different high-level helpers operating at once.

Plus, Jason and Jonathan look back at the Open Angel Forum days, where Jason invested in Jonathan's previous company, Thumbtack, praise the "Checklist Manifesto," discuss the telltale signs you've achieved market pull, and lots more insights.

Timestamps:

(01:53) We're joined by Jonathan Swanson from one of JCal's fav startups, Athena!(02:02) Jason and Jonathan first met during the Open Angel Forum, when Jonathan was working on Thumbtack(06:44) Finding the "little touches" that can help make an app more delightful(9:47) Northwest Registered Agent - Form your entire business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Get more privacy, more options, and more done—visit https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twist today!(12:05) The shift from Thumbtack to Athena was all about time(12:52) How Jonathan delegates to 6 exec assistants at once(14:22) Pricing Athena's EAs: Jason runs the numbers(15:09) Why Athena made Jason believe in hiring assistants again(18:15) Getting past the "Cardinal Sins of Delegation"(19:38) Crusoe Cloud: Crusoe is the AI factory company. Reliable infrastructure and expert support. Visit https://crusoe.ai/build to reserve your capacity for the latest GPUs today.(20:48) Will AI ever be able to replace Athena assistants?(23:41) Inside how Athena finds and trains assistants from around the world(27:01) How JCal became an Athena Ambassador… and almost crashed the system!(30:55) Gusto - Check out the online payroll and benefits experts with software built specifically for small business and startups. Try Gusto today and get three months FREE at https://www.gusto.com/twist(32:11) The magic of having assistants work on "backstop projects" and creative tasks(37:14) How to know when you have achieved market pull(40:05) Why getting the most out of delegating takes real investment and training(44:36) More praise for the Checklist Manifesto(46:26) Jonathan gives us a peek at what "Black Diamond Delegation" looks like(52:14) Jason's early experiences hiring overseas assistants, from the Mahalo days*Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.comCheck out the TWIST500: https://twist500.comSubscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp*Follow Lon:X: https://x.com/lons*Follow Alex:X: https://x.com/alexLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm/*Follow Jason:X: https://twitter.com/JasonLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis/*Thank you to our partners:(9:47) Northwest Registered Agent - Form your entire business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Get more privacy, more options, and more done—visit https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twist today!(19:38) Crusoe Cloud: Crusoe is the AI factory company. Reliable infrastructure and expert support. Visit https://crusoe.ai/build to reserve your capacity for the latest GPUs today.(30:55) Gusto - Check out the online payroll and benefits experts with software built specifically for small business and startups. Try Gusto today and get three months FREE at https://www.gusto.com/twist

In the first Executive Function episode, Brett sits down with Jeanne De Witt Grosser, Chief Operating Officer at Vercel. Before Vercel, Jeanne spent nearly a decade at Stripe, where she built and scaled global revenue teams and led product partnerships. In this conversation, she unpacks what separates good executives from extraordinary ones, shares her rigorous executive hiring process, and reveals the brutally honest performance review feedback she'll never forget.

In today's episode, we discuss:

References:

Where to find Jeanne:

Where to find Brett:

Where to find First Round Capital:

Timestamps:

(01:17) What separates good executives from extraordinary ones

(02:48) How leadership changes as companies scale

(04:15) What an executive is actually accountable for

(06:11) The leap most rising leaders never make

(07:52) When to dive deep vs. when to step back

(10:09) Teaching people to think like you do

(11:56) Creating a shared language across the business

(13:52) What a COO job description actually looks like

(17:20) The upside of owning the full customer experience

(19:10) Why marketing rolls up under a COO

(21:06) Being demanding and supportive at the same time

(22:33) Inside the executive interview process

(27:35) The workshop prompts that reveal everything

(30:11) The common thread in failed executive hires

(36:36) Metrics: the driver tree philosophy

(43:04 What a collaborative exec team looks like

(57:08) How Stripe got 30 people to operate as one team

(1:03:50) Working yourself out of a job

(1:10:32) The review feedback you can't unhear

How do you tell if an economy is actually working? Most economics classes point to controlled inflation, steady growth, or low unemployment - but what if the level of financial fraud is the real hidden indicator?

Robin Wigglesworth and Gillian Tett talk to Dan Davies, financial historian and author of Lying for Money, to hear about some of the wildest and most shocking frauds in history. From 'the great salad oil swindle,' which almost brought down American Express to a fake gold mine in Borneo that ended with a mysterious fall from a helicopter. Together they explore how trust drives modern economies - and how fraudsters continuously exploit it.

Further reading: Lying for Money: How Legendary Frauds Reveal the Workings of Our World by Dan Davies

To enjoy future episodes, be sure to subscribe to The Story of Money wherever you get your podcasts, also on the show's dedicated YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@FTTheStoryOfMoney

Hosts: Gillian Tett and Robin Wigglesworth

Senior Producer: Michela Tindera

Executive producers: Kate Ford and Manuela Saragosa

Video producer: Michael Saliba

Original music and sound design: Breen Turner

Broadcast engineers: Bianca Wakeman and Petros Gioumpasis

Podcast development: Laura Clarke

FT global head of audio: Flo Phillips

Learn more at www.ft.com/tsom or get in touch at [email protected]

Read a transcript of this episode on FT.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tom Verrilli is the chief product officer at Whatnot, a live shopping platform that’s become the fastest-growing U.S. marketplace business in history, with over $8 billion in GMV. Before joining Whatnot, Tom was CPO at Twitch and director of product growth at Twitter (during one of the most turbulent periods in the company’s history).

In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:

1. Why Whatnot’s product team was founded on the premise “we regret that product management exists”

2. How AI is reshaping the PM role

3. What Tom looks for when hiring PMs

4. The shift toward senior ICs doing the work

5. How AI has transformed data science at Whatnot

6. Tom’s “play the accordion” mental model

7. Why “hire great people and get out of their way” fails

8. His biggest lessons from his time at Twitter

—

Brought to you by:

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Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/this-cpo-regrets-that-product-management

—

Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0

—

Where to find Tom Verrilli:

• X: https://x.com/tdrobbo

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-robertson-042

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction

(02:40) “We regret that product management exists”: what it means and why

(08:30) When specialization makes sense, and when it doesn’t

(15:20) How Whatnot structures its PM org

(17:28) What 31,832 PM applications revealed about the function

(19:40) How to develop systems thinking

(22:10) The shift to senior ICs doing IC work

(32:26) Advice for PMs struggling in today’s market

(35:22) How AI has transformed work at Whatnot

(41:14) The data scientist problem

(42:48) Which roles are trending up and down

(44:48) What the product team of the future looks like

(46:29) Why core PM skills are the most durable in an AI world

(49:23) How to get the most out of the people you hire

(53:32) Navigating the CPO-founder relationship

(57:34) Advice for aspiring CPO’s

(59:16) How to know when to stand firm and when to step back

(01:01:38) Play the accordion: balancing strategic vision with fast iteration

(01:06:35) Agentic commerce vs. live commerce

(01:09:46) Lessons from Twitter

(01:13:07) Failure corner

(01:15:45) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Referenced:

• Whatnot: https://www.whatnot.com

• Building, and Whatnot: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/building-whatnot-tom-verrilli-bwkdc

• Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv

• Why Netflix is betting on systems thinkers—not specialists—in the AI era | Elizabeth Stone (CPTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/netflix-cpto-on-ai-and-the-future

• Peter Bailis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pbailis

• Mike Krieger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekrieger

• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next

• Ben Kus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benkus

• Henry Shi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henrythe9th

• Hex Threads: https://hex.tech/product/threads

• Product management theater | Marty Cagan (Silicon Valley Product Group): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty

• Grant LaFontaine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantlafontaine

• Logan Head on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-head

• Emmett Shear on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmettshear

• Kara Swisher on X: https://x.com/karaswisher

• Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin—Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY

• Star City on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/star-city/umc.cmc.2l8p785osmtmiyk64bh6tfde1

• For All Mankind on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/for-all-mankind/umc.cmc.6wsi780sz5tdbqcf11k76mkp7

• Service NSW Mobile App: https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/services/service-nsw-mobile-app

• Rudyard Kipling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudyard_Kipling

• E-fish.com: https://www.e-fish.com

—

Recommended books:

• The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers―Straight Talk on the Challenges of Entrepreneurship: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062273205

• The Purpose Driven Church: Every Church Is Big in God’s Eyes: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310201063

• Babel: Or the Necessity of Violence: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators’ Revolution―An Historic Fantasy of Dark Academia: https://www.amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Elizabeth Stone is the Chief Product and Technology Officer (CPTO) at Netflix, where she oversees Engineering, Product, and Design. Since her first appearance on the podcast two years ago—which remained my second-most-popular episode for more than a year—she has expanded her role to lead product, in addition to engineering. Before Netflix, Elizabeth was VP of Science at Lyft, Chief Operating Officer at Nuna, an economist at Analysis Group, and a trader at Merrill Lynch.

In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:

1. Why “systems thinking” is now the most important skill she looks for

2. How to manage the flood of AI-generated output without losing quality or signal

3. How Netflix thinks about AI fluency as a universal expectation rather than a level-specific skill

4. What “excellence as an operating system” means

—

Brought to you by:

WorkOS—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: https://workos.com/lenny

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—

Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/netflix-cpto-on-ai-and-the-future

—

Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0

—

Where to find Elizabeth Stone:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-stone-608a754

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction

(02:25) AI and role confusion: the storming phase before the forming phase

(07:36) How roles have changed in the past two and a half years

(11:55) Will functions survive? The case for craft specialism

(13:26) What Netflix is hiring more of—and less of

(17:22) Why systems thinking is the rising skill across every function

(20:20) Is the design process dead?

(22:08) Skills trending down

(28:33) AI fluency and Netflix’s career ladder overlay

(31:00) AI use cases beyond coding

(35:12) Netflix’s AI history

(38:36) Excellence as an operating system

(41:11) The pillars of the excellence OS

(46:41) The keeper’s test—and why it’s mostly a positive conversation

(50:21) Attracting top talent in the age of frontier AI labs

(52:54) Junior talent, craft mastery, and the mentorship question

(56:25) Where engineering goes in 5 to 10 years

(59:45) The future of entertainment: beyond film and TV

(1:02:18) AI in Hollywood: Netflix’s creator-enablement position

(1:06:15) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Referenced:

• How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• The design process is dead. Here’s what’s replacing it. | Jenny Wen (head of design at Claude): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-design-process-is-dead

• Claude Code: https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-code

• Claude Cowork: https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-cowork

• Netflix’s “Keeper Test” and Why You Need It | Lorne Rubis: https://www.highlights.lornerubis.com/2015/08/the-netflix-keeper-test-and-the-courage-to-take-it

• Innovation for Filmmaking, By Filmmakers: Why InterPositive Is Joining Netflix: https://about.netflix.com/en/news/why-interpositive-is-joining-netflix

• InterPositive: https://weareinterpositive.com

• Netflix Prize: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize

• Quarterback on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81482895

• The Bill Simmons Podcast on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/82186214

• Spencer Pratt on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spencerpratt

• Salman Rushdie’s Substack: https://salmanrushdie.substack.com

• Remarkably Bright Creatures on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81911351

• Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com

• Tour de France: https://www.letour.fr/en

—

Recommended books:

• Thinking in Systems: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557

• Into Thin Air: A Personal Account of the Mt. Everest Disaster: https://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/0385494785

• Liar’s Poker: https://www.amazon.com/Liars-Poker-Norton-Paperback-Michael/dp/039333869X

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

We often think of the challenges created by technology as separate and disconnected, so trying to solve them feels like playing the world's hardest game of Whac-A-Mole. 

What if, instead, we tackled them at the root by identifying the patterns in design, development, and deployment that are causing these issues? Once we understand what's driving inhumane tech, we can develop a set of principles for building humane tech. 

In this week’s episode of Your Undivided Attention, Aza Raskin sits down with fellow CHT co-founder Randy Fernando to walk through CHT's Seven Principles of Humane Technology. For each principle, they draw on real-world examples from the podcast and beyond to clearly illustrate how these principles (and their absence) show up in the world. 

There’s so much more here than can go into a single podcast. If you want to go deeper, visit humanetech.com/course and sign up to learn more. 

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on X: @HumaneTech_ and subscribe to our Substack.

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

What Happened in Vegas with Natasha Dow Schüll 

Down the Rabbit Hole by Design. Guest: Guillaume Chaslot

Forever Chemicals, Forever Consequences: What PFAS Teaches Us About AI 

The Power of Solutions Journalism with Tina Rosenberg and Hélène Biandudi Hofer 

The Invisible Cyber-War with Nicole Perlroth

Anthropic’s Mythos Has Changed Cybersecurity Forever. What Now?

How OpenAI's ChatGPT Guided a Teen to His Death

Attachment Hacking and the Rise of AI Psychosis

Digital Democracy is Within Reach with Audrey Tang

The Tech We Need for 21st Century Democracy with Divya Siddarth

Mind the (Perception) Gap with Dan Vallone 

CORRECTIONS

Aza incorrectly named Tina Rosenberg as one of the founders of Solutions Journalism. Her organization's name is the Solutions Journalism Network. 

Aza stated that “chatbots are better than any human at persuading people out of conspiracy theories.” This is in reference to a study that found AIs to be very slightly more persuasive than human experts; we can’t extrapolate from that that they are better than any human. The point stands that they are remarkably good persuasion machines.

Aza referred to EO Wilson as the “father of evolutionary biology,” but the field he is largely credited with founding is sociobiology. 

Aza cited Spain and Denmark as examples of countries that have banned social media for teens. However, these countries have only proposed such bans; they have not been enacted. 

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Andrew Ambrosino leads development of the Codex desktop app at OpenAI. Nearly 100% of OpenAI employees—not just engineers—now use Codex weekly. A lifelong builder with a background spanning engineering, design, product management, and founding companies, he is now responsible for turning the Codex desktop experience into what he calls “the best desktop app that has ever existed, full stop.”

In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:

1. Why AI has completely flipped the product development process

2. What “taste” really means as a professional skill, and why it is emerging as the most valuable capability in an AI-first workplace

3. Why Andrew believes the Codex app would have failed if they launched it last November (vs. in February)

4. The “zone defense” model for how product managers at OpenAI operate when everyone can build anything

5. How roles are collapsed on Andrew’s team, and why eliminating the concept of roles entirely is a big mistake

6. How Andrew uses Codex to run his own workflows

7. The vision for a home base that coordinates work across ChatGPT, Codex, and the tools people already use.

—

Brought to you by:

WorkOS—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more

Mercury—Radically different banking, now with Command

—

Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape

—

Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0

—

Where to find Andrew Ambrosino:

• X: https://x.com/ajambrosino

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajambrosino

• Website: https://ambrosino.io

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Andrew Ambrosino

(02:30) How AI is changing the shape of product work

(06:32) When to use documents vs. prototypes

(10:25) What “taste” actually means

(12:06) Why AI is still bad at design

(16:18) Is the design process really dead?

(21:35) What the design process looks like on the Codex team

(23:41) Are product functions disappearing?

(27:22) Team structure

(30:12) IC vs. management

(31:37) Planning roadmaps

(35:16) Building features that don’t work yet

(38:13) The ambition problem: when you’re too AGI-pilled

(39:17) The latest frontier: loops and autonomous development

(52:05) How Andrew uses Codex to automate his entire job

(46:52) The power of computer use and browser automation

(49:10) Will we run all our SaaS apps inside Codex?

(52:05) The future vision for Codex

(57:20) The videographer who built a Premiere Pro extension with Codex

(59:30) Failure corner

(1:01:50) Lightning round

(1:07:03) BTS: How our producer uses Codex for editing

—

References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Fiona Fung leads the teams behind Claude Code and Cowork at Anthropic (overseeing Boris Cherny and the entire engineering and PM team). Before Anthropic, she spent 11 years at Microsoft building Visual Studio and TypeScript and then moved to Meta, where she started Facebook Marketplace (now generating over $100 billion in GMV annually), worked on Meta’s first smart glasses and AR glasses, and led infrastructure, growth, integrity, and safety teams at Instagram. She’s been an engineer for over 25 years and has a unique perspective on how the role of building software is changing.

In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:

1. What she’s learned about running a team that’s shipping 8x more code than before

2. Which roles AI will transform next

3. Specific ways her team uses AI

4. How Claude “routines” have changed how she operates as a manager

5. The context-switching problem no one has solved yet

6. The biggest unsolved problem in AI

7. What keeps her up at night

—

Brought to you by:

WorkOS—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: https://workos.com/lenny

Mercury—Radically different banking, now with Command: https://mercury.com/

—

Where to find Fiona Fung:

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/fionafung

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Fiona Fung

(02:31) How the engineering role has transformed over 25 years

(09:28) What an AI-pilled software team looks like in 2026

(12:26) Using Claude to manage and review team output

(14:40) The evolution of code review and verification

(16:55) Who to hire: creative builders and deep systems experts

(18:18) The shift to ambitious thinking

(19:40) The growth mindset required to thrive in AI-native teams

(25:52) Helping small businesses adopt AI tools

(31:46) How Anthropic spots latent demand and builds for it

(35:08) The next frontier: asynchronous work with AI routines

(38:06) Agency and accountability in AI-native teams

(39:40) The vibe shift from token-maxing to ROI measurement

(44:24) The “bad vs. sad” quality framework

(49:34) Why all managers start as ICs at Anthropic

(55:24) Preventing skill atrophy

(58:43) Managing context switching with 20 AI agents running

(1:00:08) How PM and data science roles are transforming

(1:03:40) The importance of dogfooding and using your own product

(1:08:36) Outstanding questions

(1:12:48) The future of engineering jobs and education

(1:17:59) What keeps Fiona up at night: team culture at scale

(1:22:53) From six-month roadmaps to JIT (just-in-time) monthly planning

(1:27:03) Lightning round

—

References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-the-most-ai-pilled-engineering

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Mark Pincus founded Zynga—the company behind Words With Friends, FarmVille, and Zynga Poker—and has arguably created more hit consumer products than anyone in history. At Zynga, eight of 10 major game launches became massive hits, reaching over a billion players. Over the past five years, Mark has been synthesizing everything he’s learned about building successful consumer products and turning it into a book, Life at the Speed of Play, which comes out on June 23. This is the first interview he’s done about the book.

In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:

1. His “Proven, Better, New” framework: copy what’s proven, make it better so that 10 out of 10 people say “f*ck yes, I’ll use this”—then add something new

2. Why being less ambitious is the path to the most ambitious ideas

3. His rule of thumb that your instincts are right 95% of the time, but your ideas are wrong 75% of the time

4. “Kill hope before hope kills you”

5. How to raise kids in the age of AI

—

Brought to you by:

WorkOS—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more

Vanta—Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI

—

Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-common-pattern-behind-successful

—

Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0

—

Where to find Mark Pincus:

• X: https://x.com/markpinc

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markpincus

• Website: https://www.lifeatthespeedofplay.com

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Mark Pincus

(02:46) The Proven Better New framework overview

(07:29) Earning the right to innovate

(08:30) What “better” really means

(12:03) Quick summary of the framework

(12:40) Examples of the framework in action

(13:30) How to use proven correctly on your platform

(15:13) The moral arbitrage of copying

(23:55) Be less ambitious

(28:25) The Bolt.new story and staying humble

(33:15) Kill hope before hope kills you

(37:00) Using AI as a failure machine

(40:08) Why Zynga’s games succeeded (it wasn’t virality)

(48:36) The future of consumer social apps

(57:05) How to know if your product is a B+

(1:01:25) Distribution in the age of AI

(1:15:39) Make everyone a CEO

(1:18:18) Stay close to the metal

(1:21:35) Why Mark says micromanagement is beautiful

(1:23:35) The expert witness

(1:25:05) The number one job of a CEO is to be right

(1:26:35) What Mark is teaching his five kids

(1:35:14) Mark’s “why”

(1:37:08) Mark’s new book: Life at The Speed of Play

—

Referenced:

• Tribe.net: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe.net

• Zynga: https://www.zynga.com

• Sid Meier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier

• Electronic Arts: https://www.ea.com

• CityVille: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CityVille

• Words With Friends: https://wordswithfriends.com/

• Scrabble: https://playscrabble.com

• Reddit: https://www.reddit.com

• TED Radio Hour, MIT Media Lab founder, 1984 TED talk.: https://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_negroponte_5_predictions_from_1984

• Peter Thiel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterthiel

• FarmVille: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FarmVille

• Craig Newmark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Newmark

• How to consistently go viral: Nikita Bier’s playbook for winning at consumer apps (co-founder of TBH, Gas, advisor, investor): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier

• Angry Birds: https://www.angrybirds.com/

• OMGPop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMGPop

• Draw Something: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draw_Something

• Slack founder: Mental models for building products people love ft. Stewart Butterfield: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/slack-founder-stewart-butterfield

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Garry Tan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garrytan

• Brian Armstrong on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barmstrong

• Jason Citron on X: https://x.com/jasoncitron

• Stanislav Vishnevskiy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/svishnevskiy

• Jeff Bezos on X: https://x.com/JeffBezos

• Andy Jassy on X: https://x.com/ajassy

• Niantic: https://nianticlabs.com

• Pokémon Go: https://pokemongo.com

• Bing Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/binggordon

—

Recommended book:

• Life at the Speed of Play: Launch Products People Love!: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Speed-Play-Launch-Products/dp/0063352575/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Immad Akhund is the CEO and co-founder of Mercury, a digital banking platform that’s become the go-to financial infrastructure for startups. Before Mercury, Immad spent nearly two decades founding companies, learning the hard way what separates a good idea from a great business.

In this episode, Immad shares the hard-earned lessons from launching Mercury as his third startup. He unpacks how he recognized this was the right idea to pursue, what strong product-market fit feels like, and why trying to "iterate" your way to success often leads founders astray.

In this episode, we discuss:

References:

Where to find Immad:

Where to find Brett:

Where to find First Round Capital:

Timestamps: