One of the themes of the Lean Out podcast is the ongoing tensions between men and women. This past week saw a shot fired on that front: a piece published in The New York Times Magazine, titled “The Trouble With Wanting Men.” For this special joint episode, podcaster Meghan Daum and I unpack this essay with a Gen Z guest.

Meghan Daum is an American author and essayist, and the host of the Unspeakable podcast, soon to be renamed the Unspeakeasy. Lily Isaacs is a British writer, and an editorial assistant for UnHerd.

Meghan Daum and Lily Isaacs are my guests, today, in this joint episode of Lean Out and the Unspeakable.

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