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You've probably felt it lately…that low-grade frustration of watching a conversation that's supposed to go somewhere, go nowhere. 

Whether it's a congressional hearing, a leadership meeting, or a dinner table debate, there's a particular kind of disorienting feeling when the people in charge seem most skilled at not actually saying anything. 

Language expands, but meaning contracts. 

Lots of words, lots of volume — but what's really being communicated? And more importantly: what do you do when what someone says and what they do are two completely different things?

The truth is: leadership behaviors are rarely random. They're almost always the expression of an underlying belief about power. 

When we understand the kind of power someone is operating from, we stop getting pulled into reactive cycles.  And we can stay focused on building the kind of structures that create real, lasting progress.

This week, Karlee revisits one of the most foundational episodes of the show, originally recorded in 2020, but perhaps even more essential right now. She unpacks the 4 types of power operating all around us, and invites us to ask not just what kind of leadership we're witnessing — but what kind we're inhabiting.

In this episode, you’ll learn that real leadership is about bringing out the potential in people, not hoarding power at the top. The more we share power, the greater it becomes. And whether you've been lifted up by a great leader or are currently weathering an ineffective one, this episode is a reminder that we deserve to be nourished by the structures we're part of, not diminished by them.

If you’re ready to see beneath the surface of the power dynamics in your workplace, your community, and your politics, and choose how you want to respond, then this episode is for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (6:32) What leadership actually means and why it's a responsibility, not a rank
• (9:26) The purpose of your power: what you're really building when you claim it
• (13:24) The 4 types of power - and which one is quietly running the room you're in
• (15:52) What happens when leaders believe power is scarce
• (25:07) The Godzilla Effect: how to know what to trust when someone's words and actions aren't lining up

Resources Mentioned In This Episode: 

Buildings and Bridges by Ani DiFranco

Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts. by Brené Brown

Real Teams Win: What Smart Leaders Need to Know Now About Achieving Peak Performance by Thomas L. Steding

The Purpose of Power: How We Come Together When We Fall Apart by Alicia Garza

Black Lives Matter

Lady Don't Take No Podcast with Alicia Garza

People Mentioned In This Episode: 

Maria Sirois

Brené Brown

Tom Steding

Alicia Garza

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🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

"Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it."

Mary Oliver wrote those words, and they've become something like a quiet compass for meaningful work. A reminder to stay awake to what's here, let it move you, and share what you notice.

This week marks episode 200 of Messy & Magnificent—24 seasons, over six years, hundreds of conversations held between us. And what Karlee keeps noticing isn't just that the podcast has continued, but how.

Most of us don't walk away from what matters because we stop caring. We walk away because the way we're trying to stay has become unsustainable.

Staying with something that matters isn't about willpower. It's about creating conditions that make staying possible.

This week, Karlee shares three specific practices that have made staying with the podcast possible, and the practices that are helping leaders stay with what matters to them, too. This milestone is less celebration, more reflection. Less confetti, more candlelight. It's a pause at the threshold to notice what actually makes it possible to keep showing up for work that matters without burning yourself down in the process.

In this episode, you’ll learn why reaching out for support isn't a sign of weakness but a strategic move that turns mountains back into molehills. You’ll hear how giving your projects permission to evolve (rather than forcing them to stay the same or scrapping them entirely) creates the breathing room that makes long arcs possible, and why small, consistent progress beats perfection every time when it comes to staying engaged with meaningful work.

If you’re ready to explore what makes staying with something meaningful feel possible instead of heroic, then this is the episode for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (5:15) When asking for help becomes the next right step
• (11:30) How permission to evolve protects what matters most
• (14:45) What NASA's Mars Rover teaches us about adaptation
• (17:20) Why consistency matters more than perfection
• (22:45) The conditions that make long arcs possible

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Book: The Progress Principle: Using Small Wins to Ignite Joy, Engagement, and Creativity at Work by Teresa Amabile & Steven J. Kramer

Article: Amabile, Teresa & Kramer, Steven. "The Power of Small Wins." Harvard Business Review (2011)

Research: Edmondson, Amy C. "Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams." Administrative Science Quarterly (1999)

Book: The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth by Amy Edmondson, Wiley (2018)

Article: "Why Flexibility Is Key in Modern Project Management." Agile Business Consortium

Poem: Oliver, Mary. "Sometimes"

Connect With Karlee: 

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🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

Do you regularly you reach for your phone to reply to messages or emails that could wait? Commit to things before you've even felt out whether it's a true yes? Try to keep up with a kind of momentum that you didn’t create?

When the world around us feels compressed and urgent, a subtle kind of imbalance happens. We tend to match its pace without realizing we've made that choice. 

We lose our footing. We compress our days, shorten our response times, and mistake busyness for progress—all while telling ourselves this is what responsibility looks like.

Sometimes that sense of urgency we feel comes dressed up as responsibility. But the underlying truth is that we’re being led by fear. 

This week, Karlee reflects on what she's been noticing in herself and in the leaders she works with: the creep of false urgency and what gets lost when we mistake speed for competence. 

In this episode, you'll learn how to distinguish between real urgency and inherited momentum, why the strongest leaders aren't always the fastest responders, and how to rebuild your sense of authority when everything around you feels like it's moving too quickly. 

If this sense of having to respond quickly and fast and perfectly is not quite working for you and what you're craving is more clarity than chaos, this is the episode for you..

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (7:18) What gets lost when we move too fast 
• (12:35) Why the best teams follow leaders who ask questions
• (15:20) A simple practice for breaking the urgency cycle in real time
• (17:45) The shift that lets you stop proving and start leading from your own values
• (20:15) Why rest isn't something you earn

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

ENROLL: The Heroic Leadership Journey

People Mentioned in this Episode:

Maria Sirois

Heather Cox Richardson

Amy Edmondson

Citations:

Edmondson, A. C.
 Edmondson, A. C. (2018). The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth. Wiley.
Edmondson, A. C. (1999). Psychological safety and learning behavior in work teams. Administrative Science Quarterly, 44(2), 350–383.

Ericsson, A., Pool, R., & Coyle, D.
 Ericsson, A., & Pool, R. (2016). Peak: Secrets from the New Science of Expertise. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.

Damasio, A. R.
 Damasio, A. R. (1994). Descartes’ Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain. Putnam.

Kegan, R., & Lahey, L. L.
 Kegan, R., & Lahey, L. L. (2009). Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization. Harvard Business Press.

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

What if the future you're longing for has already been trying to reach you?

Your next season might not arrive with a blueprint. Instead of showing up as a clear strategy, it begins as something quieter: a gut feeling, a pull toward something you can't quite name yet.

Our future starts the moment we stop overriding the small, honest signals inside ourselves.

This week, Karlee concludes The Midnight Leadership Trilogy with Part 3, exploring the future that's already trying to get your attention. It's about learning to hear the whispers—the subtle leanings, the quiet longings, the hunches that feel alive even when they don't make logical sense yet.

In this episode, you'll hear about a client who felt both bored and unsettled, and why it wasn’t burn out, but a calling forward. You’ll learn why baby sea turtles always paddle toward the ocean, no matter which way you hold them, and how your brain's default mode network stitches together past experience with future possibilities.

If you're ready to respect those migration signals inside you and explore what's trying to emerge, then this is the episode for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (4:33) A story of being called forward
• (6:01) Why we don't need to name what's next to begin moving toward it
• (6:51) Sea turtles, internal compasses, and your body's wisdom
• (9:46) The default mode network: clarity comes from pause, not pressure
• (13:41) Questions to flesh out your hunches and migration signals

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Episode 196- The Midnight Leadership Trilogy | Part 1:  The Thing You’ve Known All Along

Episode 197- The Midnight Leadership Trilogy | Part 2:  The Weight You Don’t Have to Carry into the New Year

REGISTER: The Heroic Leadership Journey

People Mentioned in this Episode:

Dr. Maria Sirois

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

What if the heaviness you're carrying isn't actually responsibility?

Sometimes we mistake obligation for commitment, or we confuse what kept us safe with what will carry us forward. But underneath that sense of duty, there's often another truth… 

Some of the things you're carrying were never meant to be carried this long.

And they're certainly not meant to be carried into what's next.

This week, Karlee continues The Midnight Leadership Trilogy with Part 2, exploring the weight you don't need to take with you into the new year. Counter to dropping your priorities or having to choose between what matters most, this is about recognizing when you're carrying something in an outdated way that no longer serves you.

In this episode, you'll hear a story about a soft but clear message of letting go. You'll discover why the identity that built your success isn't always the one that carries you forward, and why your brain already knows how to release what's complete.

If you're ready to set down what no longer fits so there's room for what's trying to arrive, then this is the episode for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (1:59) The founder who realized her old identity couldn't carry her forward
• (4:46) A pervasive myth: “If I don't hold everything, it will fall apart.”
• (6:50) The season of integration and the discomfort it brings
• (11:26) Synaptic pruning: how your brain already knows how to let go
• (16:18) Creating space for the future that awaits

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Episode 196- The Midnight Leadership Trilogy | Part 1:  The Thing You’ve Known All Along

REGISTER: The Heroic Leadership Journey

People Mentioned in this Episode:

Dr. Maria Sirois

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

Does your inner season feel disconnected from what's on your calendar? 

The gap between what looks right on paper and what feels right in your body isn't confusion. That's wisdom trying to get your attention. It's a cue to pause and listen.

Because the truth you've been avoiding,  the quiet knowing that something needs to shift, is exactly what will guide you forward.

This is the bridge between what was and what's next, and it’s where transformation begins.

This week, Karlee launches The Midnight Leadership Trilogy, a three-part mini-series for leaders, caregivers, and vision holders who are in the middle of their own story. This isn't about performing leadership the way you were taught. It's about the quiet, steady questions that make a life and career worth living.

In this episode, you’ll learn why your body keeps an inner calendar and how to identify what season you're truly in. You’ll find out what becomes possible when you stop performing the season you think you should be in and start honoring the one you're actually living. 

If you're ready to name the truth you've been carrying — the thing you've perhaps known all along — then this is the episode for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (4:05) Asking yourself the deep questions
• (7:51) What the tug of inner knowing feels like
• (8:50) Determining what season you’re actually living
• (11:55) Why clarity comes from naming truth, not pushing forward
• (13:20) What's up next: The Heroic Leadership Journey and Part 2 

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

REGISTER: The Heroic Leadership Journey

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

Here's a question we don’t tend to ask ourselves: What if the dark isn't something to escape?

What if chaos, disintegration, and incoherence are just natural parts of living? Like soil in the earth where things regenerate and new life takes root.

Instead of asking "How fast can I get out of this hard time?" What if we started asking, "What am I bringing to the dark?"

That question hands the power back to you. It makes you the protagonist of your own story again, even when things feel out of your control.

This week, Karlee concludes the 3-part series, Staying Steady. This is the final conversation she co-taught with Dr. Maria Sirois, where truth and tending mature into transformation. You'll hear Maria share the raw truth about a dark year, and why reflecting on the ancient myth of Persephone has helped her reframe the experience.

In this episode, you’ll learn why dark moments aren't punishment but part of the work. You'll learn how to become the narrator of your own story, and three practical ways to stay steady when your eyes are still adjusting to what's now true. You’ll also learn the value of inviting mercy, humor, and presence into difficult seasons.

If you’re ready to stop exhausting yourself trying to avoid what's uncomfortable and instead bring the best of yourself to the darkness, then this is the episode for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (08:56) Permission to stop pretending the dark is easy
• (09:45) Ask yourself: "What am I bringing to the dark?"
• (10:13) How Persephone inhabits the underworld with purpose
• (11:21) What steadiness really means when your eyes are adjusting
• (15:19) Acts of bravery in times of chaos

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Episode 193: The Steady Center Series | Part One: Fairy Wings in a Wild World

Episode 194: The Steady Center Series | Part 2: Regeneration Begins Where Depletion Is Named

REPLAY: Staying Steady in Chaotic Times with Karlee Fain and Maria Sirois

REGISTER: The Heroic Leadership Journey

People Mentioned in this Episode:

• Dr. Maria Sirois

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🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

If you woke up tired today, not from a crisis, but just from living, this one's for you.

Because here's the thing: most of us don't break down because we're weak. We get worn out because we've been strong for too darn long.

You know how to show up. You know how to push through. But do you know how to notice the person inside the body doing all of that?

That's where regeneration comes in. And no, we're not talking about self-care Instagram posts or bubble baths (though those are nice). We're talking about what happens when your life and your work start giving back to you as much as you're giving to them.

This week, Karlee rolls out Part 2 of the Staying Steady series, based on the course she co-taught with Dr. Maria Sirois. Together, they explore what it means to tend to what matters when the good and the difficult collide, and why work that lasts begins with honest tending, not heroic pushing.

In this episode, you'll hear why fear multiplies itself and where to find "high safety" when things feel overwhelming. You'll discover the bold question about breaking the rules of complacency that can shift everything, and why narrowing the lens when overwhelm takes hold makes things feel possible. 

If you’re ready to stop leaking energy and create space for life to give back to you, then this is the episode for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (06:36) Understanding fear as a multiplier
• (08:17) Three practical approaches for regenerative leadership
• (15:05) What rules of complacency did you break just to be here?
• (17:44) Chunking down: One act of care that's available right now
• (18:44) Why strong people get worn out (and what to do about it)

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Episode 193: The Steady Center Series | Part One: Fairy Wings in a Wild World

REPLAY: Staying Steady in Chaotic Times with Karlee Fain and Maria Sirois

REGISTER: The Heroic Leadership Journey

People Mentioned in this Episode:

• Dr. Maria Sirois
• Mark Nepo

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

We cannot transform what we won’t touch.

It takes real valor to tell the truth about what’s not working,  especially when life feels both brutal and beautiful all at once. For leaders, caregivers, and high achievers, it can seem absurd to care so fiercely about the world and still need to answer emails, load the dishwasher, or fold laundry. Yet this is the paradox of modern leadership: holding what’s enormous and what’s ordinary in the same pair of hands.

This week, Karlee launches a new three-part series, The Steady Center, for anyone determined to lead with courage and care in chaotic times. Together with her longtime friend and colleague, Dr. Maria Sirois, she explores how to stay steady when life wobbles.

You’ll learn how to name what’s not working, find your footing between apathy and overdrive, and rediscover the quiet valor that steadiness requires, because honesty is the soil every kind of regeneration grows from.

If you’re ready to stop spinning your wheels alone and begin cultivating steadiness from the inside out, this conversation will remind you: honesty and tenderness are your most courageous starting points.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (05:41) Telling the truth about what’s not working
• (07:32) Nurturing honesty as the soil where steadiness grows
• (10:55) Why small, tender acts matter more than we realize
• (14:46) The two ends of the spectrum: apathy and overdrive
• (17:01) How to find your steady center between both extremes

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

REPLAY: Staying Steady in Chaotic Times with Karlee Fain and Maria Sirois

REGISTER: The Heroic Leadership Journey

*For book links: https://bookshop.org/shop/harriettsbookshop 

People Mentioned in this Episode:

Maria Sirois

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

If your brain still whispers, “If I don’t do it, it won’t get done,” you’re not alone.

High-achievers and caregivers alike have been conditioned to believe that love means carrying it all — every project, every person, every crisis. But what if that belief is quietly depleting the very ecosystem you’re meant to thrive in?

This week, Karlee invites us to explore what happens when we stop trying to be everything for everyone. She blends modern neuroscience and ancient wisdom to reveal how reciprocity — giving and receiving — restores balance in our lives.

In this episode, you’ll hear how over-functioning crept into our culture, why our brains are wired for mutual care, and three gentle practices that make it safe to be supported again. Plus, Karlee shares her first-ever public poem, “Root Among Roots,” a heartfelt reminder that we were never meant to hold the whole mountain alone.

If you’re ready to stop over-functioning and start belonging again, this is your invitation back to an ecosystem that holds you, too.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (8:21) The poem that started it all: Root Among Roots.
• (12:45) What neuroscience reveals about giving and reciprocity.
• (18:30) Why asking for help isn’t weakness — it’s biology.
• (22:12) Three practical ways to restore balance and receive support.
• (28:40) How to practice boundaries that breathe — and still belong.

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Poem: Root Among Roots by Karlee Fain

Join Karlee for free on Substack

Study: Inagaki TK, Bryne Haltom KE, Suzuki S, Jevtic I, Hornstein E, Bower JE, Eisenberger NI. The Neurobiology of Giving Versus Receiving Support: The Role of Stress-Related and Social Reward-Related Neural Activity. Psychosom Med. 2016 May;78(4):443-53. doi: 10.1097/PSY.0000000000000302. PMID: 26867078; PMCID: PMC4851591.

Retreat: Better Boundaries, Finally at Kripalu (Oct. 31 – Nov. 2)

People Mentioned in this Episode:

Dr. Tristen Inagaki

Mary Oliver

Adrienne Marie Brown

Dr. Maria Sirois

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.