Sara Vienna is the Chief Design Officer at Metalab. Slack, Uber, Coinbase... the list of products that came out of that shop is GOAT'd.

We talked about how they actually ship that work, their Tarantino process, why measuring velocity is "absolute bullshit," and a culture rule called "kind not nice" that changed how I think about feedback.

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CHAPTERS:
00:00 - "Designers are at a huge advantage"
01:58 - Learning Photoshop because tobacco companies lost a lawsuit
04:54 - "I was a really shitty designer first"
08:45 - Speed vs quality: earning space for the work you're proud of
12:05 - How MetaLab ships consistently
15:21 - The Tarantino process explained
17:16 - Building a culture of candid feedback
19:45 - "Kind not nice"
20:26 - Making space for play
26:45 - Burnout and what actually helps
30:05 - How MetaLab uses AI
35:07 - Designers marry the head and the heart
38:47 - Team structures: smaller but mightier
41:59 - T-shaped designers and specialists
44:34 - Why leaders need to stay in the work
48:00 - Advice for first-time design leaders

ABOUT TOMMY GEOCO
I spent 15+ years in tech and design. Former military. Father of five. Now building Internet Enjoyers, a weird little media + product studio rediscovering soul in creative tech.

ABOUT STATE OF PLAY
Host Tommy Geoco discovers what fuels the internet's most interesting designers and builders.

LINKS:
UX Tools Newsletter: https://uxtools.co
Follow Sara Vienna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saravienna/
MetaLab: https://metalab.com

FOLLOW ME:
X / Twitter: https://x.com/designertom
Instagram: https://instagram.com/itsdesignertom
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/tommygeoco