Ep. 4: Mom Guilt, with Jeni

** NOTE: In this podcast we reference an episode where we interviewed Sheri, a middle-aged, full-time working mom of two teens. That episode will be uploaded next week. Something to look forward to! :-)

EPISODE OVERVIEW

Hosts Shelley and Jeni explore the universal experience of mom guilt from two different life stages - Shelley as a mother of an adult child and a teen and raising a first grader, and Jeni as a new mom to a two-and-a-half-year-old. They discuss how American culture structurally contributes to maternal guilt, the compounded guilt of older motherhood, and the journey from guilt to grace.

KEY TOPICS:

* The universality of mom guilt across different parenting stages

* Working mother guilt and attachment concerns

* Cultural and structural factors that create mom guilt in America

* Mom shaming and judgment from other mothers

* How past parenting choices affect current guilt

* The unique guilt challenges of middle-aged motherhood

* Moving from guilt to grace through self-awareness

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

[00:00:00 - 00:02:00] Introduction and Different Types of Mom Guilt

Shelley and Jeni introduce themselves as middle-aged moms at different stages - Shelley with children ranging from their twenties to first grade, and Jeni with a two-and-a-half-year-old. Jeni shares her multiple layers of guilt as a working mom, from major concerns about leaving for work to minor worries about whether her daughter wore a warm enough coat.

[00:02:00 - 00:05:00] Mom Shaming and Judgment

The hosts discuss how mom shaming from other mothers compounds personal guilt feelings. Jeni describes receiving looks and comments about her daughter’s clothing choices, including from her own mother about car seat safety practices that have changed since the 1980s. They explore how external judgment feeds internal guilt.

[00:05:00 - 00:07:00] Structural Issues in American Parenting Culture

Shelley ponders on how American culture uniquely sets mothers up for guilt by placing full responsibility on mothers while providing minimal support. She contrasts this with other countries that offer guaranteed parental leave, affordable childcare, and multi-generational family support, noting that the U.S. expects mothers to be constantly available while also being productive workers.

[00:07:00 - 00:10:00] Working Mother Guilt and Attachment Fears

Jeni shares her deep guilt about returning to work after 16 weeks of parental leave, describing crying while pumping and the anxiety that her daughter wouldn’t be securely attached to her since her husband was the primary caregiver. Shelley reassures her that children can have multiple secure attachment figures and that this is actually beneficial.

[00:10:00 - 00:13:00] The Milk Shipping Incident

Jeni recounts a heartbreaking business trip where she was pumping and shipping breast milk home, only to discover on the third day that the hotel hadn’t been mailing the packages. She describes this as representing overwhelming guilt about being away from her daughter and feeling like she couldn’t even do the one thing to nurture her child from afar.

[00:13:00 - 00:15:00] Health Concerns and Parental Responsibility

Jeni discusses her guilt around her daughter’s abdominal migraines, questioning whether she’s done enough to ensure proper treatment and care. This leads to a broader conversation about how mothers constantly question if they’re doing enough for their children’s wellbeing.

[00:15:00 - 00:19:00] Shelley’s Story: Parenting Her Oldest Daughter

Shelley opens up about her oldest daughter’s struggles with addiction stemming from trauma and an abusive relationship. She reflects on being a single mother without community support, working full-time, and not having the healing and emotional regulation skills she has now. She describes carrying years of guilt about not being emotionally available and how this affected her daughter’s ability to feel secure.

[00:19:00 - 00:22:00] Growth, Awareness, and Changing Patterns

Shelley shares how she’s been completely honest with her daughter about where she “goofed up,” acknowledging both her successes and failures. She describes specific changes she’s made with subsequent children, including no longer yelling and not rushing kids constantly. She references research on how always hurrying children contributes to anxiety.

[00:22:00 - 00:26:00] Values, Anxiety, and Timeliness

Both hosts discuss the anxiety of being late that was instilled in them - the belief that “if you’re on time, you’re late.” Jeni shares her own struggle with this, noting she sometimes arrives 30-40 minutes early to events. They explore how they’re working to manage this anxiety and not pass it on to their children.

[00:26:00 - 00:29:00] The Compound Guilt of Older Motherhood

Shelley introduces the concept of “compound guilt” for older mothers - guilt about the past, present, and future all at once. Jeni describes her first moment of mom guilt at her initial OB appointment when labeled “advanced maternal age,” and her ongoing concerns about looking old for her daughter and being mistaken for a grandparent.

[00:29:00 - 00:32:00] Longevity Concerns and Quality Over Quantity

The hosts discuss the reality that their children likely won’t have them as long as children of younger parents. Jeni reflects on her father losing his mother at age 70, while Shelley notes her kids won’t be in their fifties and still have her. They emphasize focusing on quality experiences and relationships rather than quantity of time.

[00:32:00 - 00:34:00] From Guilt to Grace

Shelley introduces her upcoming workshop “From Guilt to Grace,” explaining the importance of changing our relationship with guilt rather than trying to eliminate it. She emphasizes seeing guilt as information rather than moral failure, and learning to give ourselves grace, especially when structural support systems are lacking.

THE GUILT CHALLENGE FOR MOTHERS

What’s Missing:

* Guaranteed parental leave in the United States

* Affordable, accessible childcare

* Multi-generational family support systems for many families

* Cultural acceptance that one parent cannot meet all of a child’s needs alone

* Recognition that working long hours while being constantly available is impossible

What is Happening:

* Mothers bear full responsibility for children’s wellbeing

* American culture values both intensive mothering and productive work

* Mothers face judgment from other mothers and society

* Support systems are expensive and hard to access

* Mothers internalize external pressures as personal failures

The Stakes:

When mothers carry excessive guilt without adequate support, it affects their mental health, their relationships with their children, and their ability to parent effectively. The cultural expectation that mothers should do everything perfectly while managing work and home creates an impossible standard that harms families.

ATTACHMENT AND CAREGIVING INSIGHTS

Multiple Attachment Figures:

* Children can and should develop secure attachments to more than one caregiver

* Different attachment figures serve different purposes (comfort, exploration, etc.)

* Having multiple secure attachments is beneficial for children’s development

* Multi-generational and community-based caregiving provides variety children need

Working Parent Reassurance:

* Quality of interaction matters more than constant presence

* Children benefit from seeing parents model work, passion, and purpose

* Secure attachment can form even when parents work outside the home

* The “one primary attachment figure” belief is outdated

KEY QUOTES

“We have structured it so that it is always the mother’s responsibility... we don’t have guaranteed parental leave, we don’t have a lot of childcare support, it’s expensive, we have a very expensive healthcare system, and we have this expectation that mothers should be constantly available, constantly engaged.” -- Shelley

“When you know better, you do better.” -- Shelley (quoting Maya Angelou)

“I don’t want her to feel like she always has to say, ‘Okay mommy,’ but also sometimes her ‘okay mommies’ are like, ‘Okay mommy, whatever, I’m not doing that.’” -- Jeni

“It’s not about fixing, it’s just about changing our relationship with guilt because it doesn’t go away... but it’s about how do we change our relationship with it, and how do we put up a healthy boundary?” -- Shelley

PRACTICAL TAKEAWAYS

For Middle-Aged Mothers:

* Recognize that guilt is information, not a moral failing - ask what it’s telling you

* Be honest with your children about where you’ve grown and what you’ve learned

* Focus on quality of time and experiences rather than quantity, especially as an older parent

* Consider how cultural structures (not just personal choices) contribute to your guilt

* Practice self-compassion and move from guilt to grace

For Working Mothers:

* Your child can form secure attachments to multiple caregivers - this is healthy and beneficial

* Different caregivers serve different purposes in your child’s life

* The quality of your interactions matters more than constant physical presence

* Acknowledge the structural challenges (lack of parental leave, expensive childcare) that make working parenthood difficult

For All Mothers:

* Question the “rush culture” - research shows constantly hurrying children increases anxiety

* Examine inherited values about timeliness and whether they serve your family

* Practice saying “I’m sorry” to your children when you make mistakes

* Remember that you will parent better as you learn more - give yourself grace for past choices

* Build community with other mothers at similar life stages for support and normalization

RESOURCES MENTIONED

Concepts Discussed:

* Secure attachment theory and multiple attachment figures

* Research on rushing children and anxiety development

* “Advanced maternal age” and geriatric pregnancy terminology

* Cultural differences in parental leave and childcare support

Upcoming Offerings:

* “From Guilt to Grace” workshop by Shelley

* Upcoming episode interviewing teenagers of older parents

Future Episode Referenced:

* Episode with Sheri about community-based parenting support

CALL TO ACTION

* Share this episode with other mothers struggling with guilt

* Join the conversation about how cultural structures create impossible standards for mothers

* Subscribe and leave reviews to help other mothers find this community

* Email: [email protected]

Remember: Our community is stronger and better because you are in it. You belong here exactly as you are.

Episode 4: Depression in Daughters – The Research Gap We Can’t Ignore

EPISODE OVERVIEW

In this important episode, Shelley and Jeni explore the connection between maternal age and depression risk in daughters—a topic that emerged from their conversation with Caity in Episode 3. The discussion reveals a shocking gap in mental health research affecting millions of families.

KEY TOPICS:

· The 2015 Australian study linking maternal age (35+) to higher depression in daughters

· Jeni’s postpartum depression experience at age 44

· Complete lack of follow-up research despite rising maternal ages

· Mental health support gaps for middle-aged mothers

· Alternative therapies (EFT/tapping) for maternal anxiety

· The need for age-specific mental health protocols

EPISODE STATISTICS:

· 2023: First time in U.S. history more babies born to women 40+ than to teenagers

· Fertility rates for women 40-44 increased 127% since 1990

· Yet virtually no mental health research on this population since 2015

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

[00:01:00 - 00:03:00] Jeni’s Postpartum Depression Story

Jeni shares a vivid memory of sitting on her nursery floor organizing diapers while sobbing uncontrollably. Despite experiencing “the happiest thing in my life,” she felt overwhelming sadness and depression that continued well beyond the typical two-week “baby blues” period. The frightening loss of control over her emotions was intensified by the hormonal changes after giving birth at 44.

[00:04:00 - 00:06:00] Modern Pressures on Daughters

Jeni expresses deep concerns about raising a daughter in today’s world, where 13-14 year olds look like adult women due to social media influence, makeup knowledge, and impossible beauty standards. She emphasizes the importance of approaching this research with knowledge rather than fear: “Sometimes the best thing you can do is not be scared of something, but be armed with knowledge and power.”

[00:06:00 - 00:08:00] Shelley’s Different Experience

Shelley’s postpartum experience at 43 was different—navigating a marriage affected by addiction while caring for a newborn, a 10-year-old, and stepchildren. She doesn’t remember feeling depressed, experiencing instead fear and uncertainty. This highlights how postpartum experiences vary widely.

[00:08:00 - 00:10:00] The 2015 Australian Study

Key findings from this groundbreaking research:

· Daughters of mothers 35+ showed significantly higher depression and anxiety rates at age 20

· Effect found ONLY in daughters, not sons

· Effect linked ONLY to maternal age, not paternal age

· The study has never been replicated

· No follow-up research has been conducted

[00:10:00 - 00:12:00] The Shocking Research Gap

Shelley’s discovery: Despite millions of women worldwide having children at advanced ages and dramatic demographic shifts, there has been no research on this topic since 2015.

Current research focuses only on fertility issues and pregnancy complications—mental health is completely ignored.

[00:12:00 - 00:14:00] Personal Stakes

Jeni reflects that her daughter will be 20 when Jeni is 64, potentially facing retirement. This reality drives her health choices: “Get healthy, keep walking, keep moving... so that you get to 64 and it looks like you’re still in your fifties or forties.”

The 2014 Canadian study found mothers over 40 had higher depression rates than younger mothers, raising questions about how maternal mental health impacts children—another area with no recent research.

[00:16:00 - 00:17:00] The Perimenopause Connection

Jeni shares how hormones “go sideways” during perimenopause, significantly affecting her mental health throughout life. The overlap of perimenopause/menopause with active parenting needs urgent research attention.

[00:18:00 - 00:21:00] Jeni’s Pregnancy Anxiety Crisis

During late pregnancy, Jeni experienced a surge of anxiety when she couldn’t breathe due to the baby pressing on her organs. Her OCD kicked into full gear with obsessions about dying.

After trying talk therapy with minimal relief, she made a collaborative decision with her obstetrician, psychiatrist, and husband to start an antidepressant. She got relief within weeks, though struggled with medication consistency postpartum.

[00:23:00 - 00:25:00] The EFT/Tapping Breakthrough

Jeni’s talk therapist spent most sessions talking about herself—a poor fit. Shelley connected Jeni with EFT practitioner Jeni Johnston in Australia. The tapping technique gave Jeni a powerful sense of control: “I am in control right now. The world is not spinning out of control.” Both hosts had forgotten this happened until their conversation!

[00:25:00 - 00:27:00] What is EFT?

Shelley, a certified EFT practitioner, explains Emotional Freedom Technique:

· Combines Eastern medicine (acupressure points) with Western psychology (exposure therapy and CBT)

· Clinical research shows it’s equally effective as EMDR for trauma

· Works for trauma, phobias, fears, cravings, and anxiety

· You expose yourself to difficult memories/emotions while pressing acupressure points to calm the body and rewire neural pathways

· Research by Dr. Peta Stapleton validates its effectiveness

Shelley is developing group EFT tapping sessions specifically for middle-aged moms.

[00:27:00 - 00:29:00] The Middle-Aged Gap in Healthcare

Shelley notes that Psychology Today listings skip from “young adults” to “older adults”—nothing for middle-aged people.

Society lacks cultural spaces, medical focus, and mental health recognition for this life stage.

This needs to change.

THE RESEARCH GAP CRISIS

What’s Missing:

Despite dramatic increases in women having children after 35, there’s virtually no research on:

· Mental health outcomes for middle-aged mothers beyond postpartum

· Long-term family dynamics with older parents

· Mental health outcomes for children of middle-aged mothers

· Why daughters (not sons) show higher depression rates

· Why maternal age matters but paternal age doesn’t

· Mechanisms behind these findings

· Preventative strategies or interventions

What is Being Studied:

· Fertility issues and technology

· Pregnancy complications

· Everything that can be “managed” medically

· But mental health is completely ignored

The Stakes:

Children born to 40+ mothers in 2023 will be 20 years old in 2043—when we’ll see if the Australian findings hold true. But we’re doing nothing to prepare, prevent, or understand.

UNIQUE CHALLENGES OF MIDDLE-AGED MOTHERHOOD

Advantages:

· More psychologically prepared and emotionally mature

· Greater life experience and wisdom

· More established professionally and financially stable

· Can have deeper, more mature conversations

Challenges:

· Stronger fears because we’ve “lived long enough to know some hard truths”

· Perimenopause/menopause overlapping with active parenting

· Less energy than younger parents

· Worries about longevity and missing children’s milestones

· Children entering adulthood while parents become elderly

· Potential for earlier caregiving responsibilities

KEY QUOTES

“I had experienced like the happiest thing in my life, what I had dreamt of happening forever and ever and ever. And yet all I could feel was sadness and tears and just so many tears and depression.” – Jeni

“Knowledge is power. I think it’s a little bit one step further. It’s what we do with the knowledge.” – Shelley

“Do you know what I found? Nothing. Nothing. That there has been no research done in this field specifically of depression, this link between maternal age and female depression later in life.” – Shelley

“It gave me a sense of control. I felt like I am in control right now. The world is not spinning out of control. I have a grasp on whatever it is I’m trying to get a grasp on, and it was very therapeutic for me.” – Jeni on EFT

PRACTICAL TAKEAWAYS

For Middle-Aged Mothers:

· Don’t assume postpartum depression is “just baby blues”

· Seek support early—find therapists who understand your life stage

· Consider alternative therapies like EFT if traditional therapy isn’t working

· Know that medication can be appropriate and helpful

· Build strong support systems and prioritize your health for longevity

For Healthcare Providers:

· Screen older mothers specifically for mental health risks

· Create age-specific protocols for this distinct population

· Don’t focus only on fertility and pregnancy complications

· Provide appropriate mental health resources and support

For Everyone:

· This research gap affects millions of families right now

· We need to replicate existing studies and examine mechanisms

· Society must recognize middle-aged adults as a distinct life stage

· Women’s health research generally needs more funding and attention

RESOURCES MENTIONED

Studies Discussed:

2014 Canadian Study

2015 Australian Study

Mental Health Resources:

Jenny Johnston - EFT practitioner, Australia

Dr. Peta Stapleton

CALL TO ACTION

· Share this episode with middle-aged mamas and healthcare providers

· If you’re a mental health or medical professional, contact the podcast to share your expertise

· Subscribe and leave reviews to spread awareness

· Email: [email protected]

Remember: Our community is stronger and better because you are in it. You belong here exactly as you are.

Ep. 2: Guest Interview with Caity

Hello, thank you for being here.

I’m excited to have my friend Jeni joining me as co-host for this episode, a role she’ll take on from time to time. Jeni is also a middle-aged mama, giving birth in her 40’s to her now two-and a-half-year-old daughter. Welcome Jeni!

I hope you all enjoy this episode and thank you for bearing with us as we navigate the podcast learning curve.

Hosts: Shelley & Jeni

Guest: Caity

Episode Highlights:

· Introduction to Caity: 39 years old, expecting her first baby in November, sharing her journey as a middle-aged mother.

· We discuss experiences and expectations around pregnancy and delivery at an older age.

· Breastfeeding: Pressures, hospital resources, and the value of community advice.

· Navigating “geriatric pregnancy” label and how OBs present age-related risks and benefits in appointments.

· Generational perspectives: Gen X vs. Millennial experiences of motherhood.

· Mental health: The importance of proactive self-care, recognizing warning signs, and openness.

· Cravings, food restrictions, and funny anecdotes about pregnancy symptoms.

· The value of doulas and support systems during delivery.

· Reflections on the emotional journey: Anticipation, anxiety, and the reality of becoming parents later in life.

· Community and connection: The importance of sharing stories to support other women.

Key Topics Covered:

· 00:00 Welcome to Middle-Aged Mama Drama

· 00:30 Meet Our Hosts and Guest

· 00:52 Caity’s Pregnancy Journey

· 01:33 Hospital Experiences and Breastfeeding

· 05:19 Navigating Pregnancy as an Older Mom

· 14:42 Generational Perspectives on Motherhood

· 19:15 Mental Health Support During Pregnancy

· 20:45 Food Cravings and Restrictions

· 28:00 Birth Preparation and Delivery Plans

· 34:00 Closing Thoughts and Future Episodes

Resources Mentioned:

Book: “Expecting Better” by Emily Oster, available here.

Discussion of research on pregnancy risks and mental health for middle-aged mothers

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38540450/

Connect With Us:

Remember to subscribe and share Middle-Aged Mama Drama with your friends, family, and coworkers.

If you are a middle-aged mama and have a story you would like to share, or know someone you would like us to interview, please reach out to us at [email protected] you for being here. Our community is stronger and better because you are in it.

You belong here exactly as you are.

Middle-Aged Mama Drama (MAMD)

Episode 1 - Host Intro

November 3, 2025

Welcome to Middle Aged Mama Drama, a community for you and your support system navigating motherhood later in life.

Host: Shelley

Episode Summary: In this debut episode, I introduce myself and the inspiration behind Middle-Aged Mama Drama, a podcast and community for women navigating motherhood in midlife. I share my personal journey, from single motherhood and career changes to unexpected pregnancy at 42, blending families, and the challenges of parenting through major life transitions.

Key Topics:

* The surprise of becoming pregnant again at age 42 and the emotional rollercoaster that followed.

* The “birth” of Middle Aged Mama Drama: standing between a tween and a toddler, imagining the chaos of menopause, puberty, and potty training all at once.

* Stories of other middle-aged mothers: surprise pregnancies, becoming a mom for the first time, step-parenting, and more.

* The need for a supportive community where older moms can share real, unfiltered experiences—everything from menopause to career dilemmas.

* The parallels between adolescence and middle age: identity, change, and self-discovery.

Notable Quotes:

* “Middle age: old enough to know better, time enough to do better.”

* “I wish somebody had told me, you’re not alone. Your timing is valid. There’s no one right way to do this.”

* “We need this space where we can celebrate the wisdom that comes with experience and laugh together about the absurdities we face.”

Call to Action:

I invite you to share your experiences of middle-aged motherhood. Future episodes will feature middle-aged mothers and individuals working in the medical and mental health fields to discuss issues unique to middle-aged mothers.

* Are you a middle-aged mom?

* A partner/spouse of a middle-aged mom?

* A mental health or medical professional with insights/questions/feedback/experience on this topic?

* Do you have questions or topic ideas you’d like us to discuss?

We invite you to join the conversation! Reach out at [email protected]

Thank you for listening! I’m excited to build this community and look forward to connecting with you.