Minds Behind Maps

Thomas Ager worked for 30y at the National Geospatial Agency on Radar satellite images and recently released ‘The Essentials of SAR’ a book breaking down Synthetic Aperture Radar for, as he puts it, “non electrical engineers”

Find more about accessing Planet's high resolution & high frequency images

• LinkedIn
• His book: The Essentials of SAR (Affiliate Link)
  • Also available in Mandarin

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• My Interview with Iain Woodhouse: Understanding Radar Satellite Images
• Tom’s interview on Project Geospatial
• Mapping London’s deformation
• 70cm mapping of the Moon
• Book (and poem!) recommendation
  • Who Is Fourier? (Affiliate Link)
  • Project Geospatial: https://www.youtube.com/@Projectgeospatial
  • Fern Hill by Dylan Thomas

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:13) - Sponsor: Planet

(02:28) - Tom describes himself

(04:13) - National Geospatial Agency

(05:46) - Why should anyone care about radar images?

(09:52) - Why not just fly plane?

(10:54) - SAR in the 80s

(23:14) - Finding early use in SAR

(27:09) - Skepticism in new tech

(30:09) - Phase

(35:32) - Bringing poetry to physics

(42:01) - The most astonishing element of SAR

(48:41) - Future of SAR

(51:51) - The next step

(56:49) - The language issue

(59:45) - Tom's book

(01:02:46) - Tom's book dedication

(01:04:49) - Teaching

(01:07:40) - Getting NGA's approval on the book

(01:09:09) - Doing what people tell you not to do

(01:11:34) - Machine Learning in SAR

(01:15:55) - Book & Podcast recommendation

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Brian McClendon was one of the earliest investors & later VP of Engineering at Keyhole, which got acquired by Google in 2004. Brian become VP of Engineering and led Google Geo, overlooking the development of Google Earth & Google Maps. He also worked at Uber & is now at Niantic, which you might know for thri most popular app: Pokemon Go

Sponsor: OpenCage

 Use OpenCage for your geocoding needs with their API
 Geomob

• LinkedIn
• Niantic

• Never Lost Again by Bill Kilday (Affiliate Link)
• Brian’s University of Kansas course: “Startups Rasing Money”
• @Home Network (Wikipedia Page)
• Keyhole Inc (History of Google Earth Wikipedia)
• Google Earth
• I think you can find a link to Google Maps on your own :)
• Nicaragua border story
• Books & Podcast
  • 3 Body Problem by Cixin Liu (Affiliate Link)
  • Marketplace podcast

Timestamps
(00:00) - Introduction

(01:16) - Sponsor: OpenCage

(02:42) - Brian describes himself

(03:33) - Getting into computer graphics

(05:15) - From engineer to building companies

(08:06) - The Beginnings of Keyhole

(12:42) - EarthViewer demo

(14:33) - Going through rough times

(21:00) - What made Keyhole so unique

(25:56) - How much of Keyhole's work is still in Google Earth?

(32:08) - Borders are hard

(37:20) - Changing borders

(43:15) - Google's rationale for spending so much on mapping

(45:37) - Use for Google Maps vs Earth

(47:22) - Google Earth Engine

(51:16) - Earliest Google Earth Image

(52:20) - Working at Uber

(57:03) - Self-driving

(58:30) - Project Ground Truth

(01:04:01) - Where is self-driving today?

(01:10:29) - Trains vs Cars

(01:14:15) - Niantic

(01:17:07) - Future predictions

(01:19:28) - Glasses over phones

(01:21:05) - The next iPhone moment

(01:23:33) - Using Tech to get people outside

(01:25:57) - Teaching

(01:28:11) - The need for tech companies outside the Bay Area

(01:30:21) - Remote work

(01:34:59) - Recommendations to students

(01:36:10) - Book/Podcast Recommendations

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Ariel Seidman is one of the co-founders of Hivemapper, a company building a map through selling dashcams & paying contributing drivers with the aim of competing with Google Maps. Ariel has a long history of mapping, working on Map & Search at Yahoo in the mid 2000s.

Find more about accessing Planet's high resolution & high frequency images

• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Hivemapper

• Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson (Affiliate Link)
• Econ 102 with Noah Smith: https://www.youtube.com/@ECON102Podcast

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(02:29) - Sponsor: Planet

(03:43) - Ariel describes himself

(05:59) - Steve Jobs influence

(07:30) - Leaving Yahoo

(11:32) - Importance of owning the collected data

(14:15) - Hivemapper

(25:53) - Incentivizing contributions

(30:42) - So, Why crypto?

(33:23) - Public distrust of crypto

(39:16) - Building trust with contributors

(46:40) - Regulations & Privacy

(51:14) - Turning images into maps

(01:06:04) - Customer base

(01:16:26) - Bike support?

(01:19:11) - Most interesting users

(01:22:31) - Future predictions

(01:26:10) - Collaborating with car manufacturers

(01:27:47) - Book & podcast

(01:31:51) - Changes in Journalism

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

It's the end of the year, so time for Christmas sweaters & looking back on the year through 12 conversations ranging from advice for people wanting to build things, discussing academia & companies, thinking about the roles of maps in the world and many others.

Support the podcast & my work on Patreon

• Harold Goddijn
• Sean Gorman
• Can Duruk
• James Killick
• Mila Luleva
• Iain Woodhouse
• Jed Sundwall
• Javier de la Torre
• Este Geraghty
• Renny Babiartz
• Hongwei Liu
• Steve Brumby

(00:00) - Intro

(01:15) - Consider Supporting my Work on Patreon

(02:49) - Harold Goddijn - Advice for Ambitious People

(09:41) - Sean Gorman - Not Everyone needs to code

(14:26) - Can Duruk - Making Maps Fun

(19:32) - James Killick - Why Apple Got Into Maps

(33:00) - Mila Luleva - Academia & Private Sector

(38:33) - Iain Woodhouse - Teaching Satellite Image's Military History

(46:48) - Jed Sundwall - ChatGPT's impact on Open Data

(57:10) - Javier de la Torre - Policies are 10 years behind the science

(01:00:10) - Este Geragthy - The Story behind John Hopkins Covid Dashboard

(01:05:23) - Renny Babiartz - The Nuance in Communicating Findings

(01:11:48) - Hongwei Liu - Indoor Mapping

(01:15:58) - Steve Brumby - Maps Against Greenwashing

(01:24:26) - Outro

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My satellite image introduction video
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Max edited this episode this time so... follow me!

Jason Boone runs the Boone Loves Videos YouTube Channel with nearly 100k subscribers, teaching people visual effects & map animations. This led him to work with some of the biggest YouTubers out there, including Johnny Harris. We talked about running an online business teaching people map animations, using maps to tell stories and Jason's recent dive into tech startups.

Find more about accessing Planet's high resolution & high frequency images

• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Jason’s Youtube channel: Boone Loves Videos

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Jack Joyce
• Johnny Harris
• Google Earth Studio
• The Origins of European Imperialism by Johnny Harris
• “How Johnny Harris rewrites history” by Present Past
• Mapal
• Every Frame a painting
• Book & Podcast recommendation
  • Vagabonding (Affiliate Link)
  • This American Life Documentary Series
  • Range by David Epstein (Affiliate Link)

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:44) - Sponsor: Planet

(01:58) - How would you describe yourself

(04:22) - Jason's path to becoming a YouTuber

(12:43) - Documentary itch

(15:43) - Maps!

(21:30) - Geo layers

(24:07) - Leaning into a niche

(27:40) - Getting the data you need to tell a story

(32:02) - Working with Johnny Harris

(36:49) - Telling Stories

(40:37) - Travelling through maps

(43:05) - Joining a tech startup

(43:16) - Felt

(45:22) - Income as a freelancer

(54:54) - Helping others get jobs

(56:09) - A story of respecting Johny Harris

(59:52) - Tech Startups

(01:03:04) - Youtubers also run startups

(01:05:14) - Current YouTube landscape

(01:06:54) - Do I need film school?

(01:10:16) - One hit wonders of YouTubers

(01:13:32) - YouTube algorithm

(01:15:06) - Jason's relationship to analytics

(01:16:50) - Advice for content creators

(01:20:57) - Embracing a niche

(01:24:25) - Family privacy

(01:30:51) - Book & podcast recommendation

(01:36:20) - Behind The Scenes available on Patreon

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My satellite image introduction video
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Javier de la Torre started a Biologist Researcher, went on to start Vizzuality and later Carto where he is now. Javier works at the intersection mapping, software based companies & geospatial. He is also one of the founding members of the Tierra Pura Foundation focused on mitigation and adaptions tactics to climate change.

Check out their QGIS Plugin to easily share your QGIS projects

• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Carto

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Vizzuality
• Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth documentary
• Tierra Pura Foundation
• Andrej Karpathy’s tweet
• Geospatial + AI Javier talk at Spatial Data Science Conference
• Book & Podcast recommendation
  • Freakonomics Podcast
  • The Invention of Nature by Andrea Wulf (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:53) - Sponsor: Felt

(02:19) - Javier Describes Himself

(03:49) - Curiosity as a driving factor

(07:16) - From Researcher to Starting a Company

(14:42) - Policy is 10 years behind Science

(18:04) - Solving the Worlds Biggest Problems

(21:01) - Focusing on a single problem

(27:38) - Carto

(31:29) - Commercial viability as a key to success

(39:00) - Buiding a company vs Doing the work

(43:01) - So, why host a conference?

(47:52) - Online vs in person community

(51:13) - Geo and AI

(55:46) - English is the ultimate programming language

(01:05:03) - Will SQL survive?

(01:13:00) - The valuable skills in a post-AI world

(01:17:29) - Book/podcast

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- My video on an introduction to satellite images
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Hongwei Liu is the CEO & Co-Founder of MappedIn, a company focused on indoor mapping. I know a lot about what it takes to map the outdoor world, but little about what’s required to map indoors. That’s what this conversation is about.

Episode Sponsor: SkyFi

Get high resolution imagery easily, with prices up front on SkyFi.com

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• MappedIn
• Maker, their free new iOS app
• My conversation with James Killick
• 3D Gaussian Splatting Github repository
• Hongwei’s blog
  • How I got into startups
• My video on how satellite images work
• Book & podcast recommendation:
  • Hardcore History
  • The Catcher in the Rye (Amazon Affiliate)

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:03) - Sponsor: SkyFi

(02:13) - Hongwei Describes Himself

(04:45) - "Accidentally" Starting a company

(08:15) - Solving a technological vs a people problem

(10:21) - Starting a business as students

(13:45) - Sales is about convincing people

(17:50) - Continuing to experiment

(21:42) - What does it actually take to map the indoors?

(26:32) - Maps vs Models

(28:01) - Why do we even need good indoor maps?

(34:58) - An indoor approach to Tesla's mapping

(41:04) - All Privacy aside, what would it take to automate indoor mapping?

(45:39) - Making a free mapping app

(48:25) - Product vs Sales lead companies

(01:02:12) - "Only the paranoid survive"

(01:06:15) - AR/VR

(01:09:35) - Hongwei's hard work ethic

(01:11:05) - Unconventional path

(01:16:42) - Difficulty of finding your own lane

(01:21:38) - Grinding for the people that coming after

(01:25:21) - Faith

(01:28:45) - Visiting China

(01:34:50) - Misunderstandings through language

(01:40:22) - Leveraging the internet

(01:43:16) - Book & Podcast Recommendations

(01:45:29) - Consider supporting me on Patreon

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Sean Gorman is currently on his 4th start-up, Zephr, working on improving smartphone location. Previously he worked on 3D mapping (acquired by Snap), mapping fibre optics infrastructure (and caught the NAS's attention as a grad student). I was recently in Colorado and got to spend a few days with Sean, at the end of which we recorded a conversation about building great teams, finding what to work on and building businesses around maps

Sponsor: Felt
Try out collaborative online mapping with Felt
Check out their Youtube Channel for walkthroughs of their latest features

About Sean

• Twitter
• LinkedIn

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• We recorded this conversation right after SatCamp, that we mentioned a few times
• Matthew Ball Essays
• Zephr
• Book & Podcast Recommendations
  • Radiolab
  • Hard Fork
  • New York Times Daily
  • Malazan Book of the Fallen 01: Garden of the Moon by Steven Erikson (Affiliate Link)
  • Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:48) - Sponsor: Felt

(01:53) - Sean Describes Himself

(05:22) - Accidentally becoming an entrepreneur

(11:36) - Ending up in front of the NSA as a grad student

(25:33) - Propelled into starting a company as a grad student

(30:45) - Not Everybody has to code

(35:40) - Base, Hits or Bunts: A Baseball Analogy to start-up exits

(41:15) - VC vs Angel investing

(45:02) - Deciding what to work on

(59:25) - Building a library of ideas

(01:02:35) - Sean's current project: Zephr

(01:11:05) - Smartphone location information isn't that good

(01:18:51) - How do you solve the trust problem

(01:26:33) - Advice for people wanting to build things

(01:29:39) - Building a Good Team

(01:33:35) - Gravitating towards small teams

(01:37:37) - Predictions on the AR market

(01:40:15) - Podcast/book recommendation

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Harold Goddijn is one of the co-founders & the CEO of TomTom. TomTom has pivoted many times, from it's beginnings making PDA software in the early 90s, stumbling onto map applications, building its own hardware to millions of devices sold in a day, to its current form today. TomTom is a fascinating company in the mapping industry and I'm excited to share a conversation with the person leading it all, Harold Goddijn.

Episode Sponsor: SkyFi
Get high resolution imagery easily, with prices up front on SkyFi.com

• LinkedIn
• TomTom

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Psion
• TomTom Go
• The Overture Maps Foundation
• My interview with Mark Prioleau the Executive Director of Overture
• Books & Podcast Recommendations:
  • Napoleon: A concise biography from Davis A. Bell. (Affiliate Link)

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:58) - Sponsor: SkyFi

(02:07) - Harold describes himself

(03:49) - Being an entrepreneur

(06:53) - TomTom in the early days

(11:26) - Why get into mapping in the early days?

(17:41) - Technical hurdles to mapping

(21:06) - The not-so-smooth relationship with data providers

(25:55) - The 2000s down turn

(28:52) - Launching TomTom Go

(30:11) - From a downturn to sudden growth

(33:31) - Going IPO without raising capital

(35:18) - 2008 was a rough year

(41:40) - Pivoting the company

(45:35) - What is TomTom today?

(47:42) - The challenges of making maps today

(53:04) - Working with car manufacturers

(56:44) - Products for entreprises vs consumers

(01:00:53) - One map to rule them all?

(01:05:12) - How does TomTom make money while providing a free map?

(01:07:07) - Why collaboration with Meta, Amazon & Microsoft?

(01:08:04) - What is Harold excited about for the future?

(01:12:27) - Mapping attracts many people

(01:14:59) - Appreciating beautiful maps

(01:16:03) - Advice for entrepreneurs

(01:22:55) - Book/podcast recommendation

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

James Killick worked at Apple from 2013 to 2022 on the Maps team and has worked in mapping for the past 40 years. I've been wondering why Apple has gotten so much into Maps; Google makes sense to me, they're just the same ad business as search, but on a map. So, why -and how- did Apple get into Map?

Sponsor: Felt
Try out collaborative online mapping with Felt
Check out their Youtube Channel for walkthroughs of their latest features

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Map Happenings
• Tim Cook apologises for Apple Maps (2012)
• The Underlying Angst of Google Maps and Apple Maps
• Book & podcast recommendations:
  • Build by Tony Fadell (Affiliate Link)
  • Daring Fireball
  • Dithering
  • Lex Fridman

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:15) - Sponsor: Felt

(02:20) - James Describes Himself

(04:37) - Car navigation in 1985

(12:25) - Etak's customers

(14:33) - Analog Maps

(22:22) - From Analog to Digital

(29:07) - MapQuest's business model: Ads on a map

(32:36) - MapQuest after the Dot Com Bubble

(41:28) - The Origins of Apple Maps

(45:04) - Shortcomings with Google's data

(46:29) - Apple wanting full control of their own maps

(47:36) - Justifying the costs of owning everything

(51:11) - A Rocky Apple Maps launch

(54:24) - James's role joining Apple in 2013

(59:45) - Indoor mapping

(01:02:29) - Crafted vs automated approaches

(01:06:38) - The OpenStreetMap approach

(01:10:56) - Contribution vs Curation

(01:15:09) - So why does Apple have Apple Maps?

(01:19:25) - Would Apple move towards more advertising?

(01:27:41) - Anti-consumerism in Apple's products

(01:29:39) - Shortcomings of Google's model

(01:31:51) - Apple Maps reviews

(01:34:51) - Incentivizing contributions

(01:41:08) - Michelin Stars comparison

(01:46:36) - Apple's Spatial computing

(01:52:11) - Books/podcasts

(01:57:19) - James' blog: Map Happenings

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work