“As if in each of us

There once was a fire

And for some of us

There seem as if there are only ashes now

But when we dig in the ashes

We find one ember

And very gently we fan that ember

Blow on it

It gets brighter

And from that ember we rebuild the fire

Only thing that's important is that ember

That's what you and I are here to celebrate”

- Ram Dass quote, lyrics from “Sit Around the Fire”

Some big news before we get to the episode with Jon Hopkins: This episode of the Mindspace podcast will be its last. Joe will be joining the team at the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast as a co-host. The Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast is hosted by Dr. Steve Thayer and Dr. Reid Robison. It is a “weekly conversation about psychedelics, research and the therapy that makes them so powerful as agents for lasting change in mental health.”

This last episode of the podcast will also be hosted on any of the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers platforms. You can find more information about that at psychedelictherapyfrontiers.com. Joe was also recently interviewed on the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast. You can find that episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts.

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Jon Hopkins, musician and producer. Jon is a prolific musician who specializes in electronic music. He has been playing music for over 20 years. He has written six studio albums and has collaborated and produced albums for Coldplay and Brian Eno. His album, Singularity, received a Grammy nomination for Best Dance/Electronic Album in December 2018.

He also collaborated with Brian Eno to create music for Wavepaths. Wavepaths was founded by Mendel Kaelen and Anna Wakefield. The purpose of Wavepaths is to create therapeutic tools that integrate “psychedelic science, machine learning, music theory, psychotherapies and experience design, in collaboration with artists, therapists and researchers.”

His newest album, Music for Psychedelic Therapy, was specifically written to be used in psychedelic therapy sessions.

In this interview Dr. Joe and Jon explored:

- What motivated him to write Music for Psychedelic Therapy

- His collaborative project with Brian Eno, Wavepaths

- The importance of music in psychedelic therapy and set and setting

- How pain is essential for beauty

- His Transcendental Meditation practice

- How he used Ketamine to write Music for Psychedelic Therapy

- Why instrumental music is better suited for psychedelic experiences

- The inclusion of a Ram Dass speech in “Sit Around the Fire”

- The impact of smartphones on our psyche

- What live music is like after an extended break due to COVID

Jon's website: jonhopkins.co.uk

“What's healing is the self to part relationship. And that relationship gets built based on the part being able to tell its story without repercussions.”

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Dr. Robert Grant. Dr. Grant is an Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist, a ketamine-assisted psychotherapist, a pulmonary physician, a professor of medicine at UCSF, a former researcher in HIV prevention and treatment, and a cofounder of the Healing Realms Center (healingrealmscenter.com). The Healing Realms Center is a clinic specializing in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy.

Dr. Grant is especially well known for his work as an IFS therapist specializing in ketamine treatments. IFS was developed by Dr. Richard C. Schwartz. It is a therapy based on the notion that the human mind is made up of inner parts. And healing involves the cultivation of harmony among these parts. It is commonly used in the treatment of post-traumatic stress.

In this interview Dr. Joe and Dr. Grant explored:

- How his research into preventing HIV led him to studying IFS

- What “parts” mean in the IFS model

- The three most common types of parts: Managers, Exiles, and Firefighters

- What “self” mean in the context of IFS

- How parts become burdened by trauma

- The role of “self” in healing

- The 6 F’s: Find, Focus, Flesh it out, Feel, beFriend, and Fear

- What ‘unblending’ is

- Why IFS fits so well with psychedelics

“In human beings, there is a will and desire to heal. Part of that process is finding and holding onto what is wanting to emerge on that journey. It takes perseverance. It takes courage. It takes time.”

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Atira Tan (www.atiratan.com). Atira is a somatic trauma specialist in sexual abuse recovery, educator, and activist. She has worked with survivors of child sex slavery, natural disaster survivors, victims of domestic violence, etc. And she has a very compelling TED Talk about these experiences. She is also an Expressive Art Therapist (MA), a senior yoga and meditation teacher, feminine leadership coach, and public speaker.

Atira teaches practitioners in trauma-informed plant medicine facilitation. She also works as a psychedelics facilitator at Aya Healing Retreats.

She is the Founder and Director of The Art2Healing Project, a non-profit that provides therapeutic support to women and children impacted by child sex slavery. She also provides trauma and psychological support to international NGOs for sex trafficking, abuse, and exploitation.

In this interview Dr. Joe and Atira explored:

- Her professional history working with trauma survivors

- The definition of trauma

- What is trauma-sensitive therapy

- The different between the responses to trauma for collectivist cultures compared to individualist cultures

- What is involved in teaching trauma-informed plant medicine facilitation

- What is involved in the preparation, duration, and integration of a trauma-informed psychedelic session

- How to create a safe container to hold a psychedelic experience for a participant

- What is missing from the modern day psychedelic field

- The importance of practitioners and their own personal healing

- How to build resilience

“To move through trauma often means going back to what was too much. Often we need to be with someone who is with us saying ‘I'm here. You're safe. It's okay to feel it now.’”

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with David Treleaven (davidtreleaven.com). David is a trauma professional, mindfulness teacher, and educator. He is also the author of Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness: Practices for Safe Healing. After struggling through symptoms of secondary trauma on a meditation retreat, he developed the Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness (TSM) approach.TSM helps trauma survivors avoid the risks they face when practicing meditation. TSM has been taught to veterans, prisoners, healthcare professionals, first responders, and many others.

Through workshops and online courses, David teaches mindfulness providers the tools of TSM, so that they can meet the needs of people struggling with trauma. More information on his online training can be found here: davidtreleaven.com/online-training

David has worked with organizations like Search Inside Yourself Leadership Institute (developed by Google) and the University of Massachusetts Medical School by bringing them the tools and techniques of TSM to their staff and programs. He is also a visiting scholar at Brown University.

He is the host of The Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness Podcast. He has had guests on like Sharon Salzberg, Rick Hanson, and recently Dr. Joe Flanders!

In this interview Joe and David explore:

- Challenges with the definition of the word trauma

- Is there such a thing as COVID trauma?

- Why some people are more resilient in the face of difficult experiences

- Neurobiological models of Post Traumatic Stress (PTS)

Diagnosing PTS

- Approaches to treating PTS

- The implications of collective trauma from COVID-19

“To move through trauma often means going back to what was too much. Often we need to be with someone who is with us saying ‘I'm here. You're safe. It's okay to feel it now.’”

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with David Treleaven (davidtreleaven.com). David is a trauma professional, mindfulness teacher, and educator. He is also the author of Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness: Practices for Safe Healing. After struggling through symptoms of secondary trauma on a meditation retreat, he developed the Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness (TSM) approach.TSM helps trauma survivors avoid the risks they face when practicing meditation. TSM has been taught to veterans, prisoners, healthcare professionals, first responders, and many others.

Through workshops and online courses, David teaches mindfulness providers the tools of TSM, so that they can meet the needs of people struggling with trauma. More information on his online training can be found here: davidtreleaven.com/online-training

David has worked with organizations like Search Inside Yourself Leadership Institute (developed by Google) and the University of Massachusetts Medical School by bringing them the tools and techniques of TSM to their staff and programs. He is also a visiting scholar at Brown University.

He is the host of The Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness Podcast. He has had guests on like Sharon Salzberg, Rick Hanson, and recently Dr. Joe Flanders!

In this interview Joe and David explore:

- Challenges with the definition of the word trauma

- Is there such a thing as COVID trauma?

- Why some people are more resilient in the face of difficult experiences

- Neurobiological models of Post Traumatic Stress (PTS)

Diagnosing PTS

- Approaches to treating PTS

- The implications of collective trauma from COVID-19

"I envision a day where people would be able to choose to do MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in a safe context to be either able to heal from something together or to grow together, and to support the relationship."

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Dr. Anne Wagner. Anne is a Toronto-based psychologist and couples therapist, a researcher studying MDMA-assisted therapy, and the founder of Remedy Centre (remedycentre.ca). Remedy is a social venture that provides individual, couples, and group therapy and reinvests the profit from these services into the Remedy Institute, which is “a new charity focused on supporting mental health innovation & research, including with psychedelics, training for aspiring mental health professionals, as well as low to no-cost therapy services for marginalized communities.”

She is the principal investigator on a pilot trial studying the impact of MDMA-assisted Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT) on PTSD and is planning a study that will examine the impact of MDMA-assisted Cognitive Behavioural Conjoint Therapy (CBCT) on PTSD.

If you’d like to donate to the Remedy Institute, please check out: canadahelps.org/en/charities/remedy-institute

Dr. Joe and Dr. Wagner spoke about:

- The origins of Remedy Centre and the newly created non-profit, the Remedy Institute

- Her research on MDMA-assisted psychotherapy with couples

- Using a form of Cognitive Therapy in her protocols, as opposed to more experiential approaches typically used in psychedelic therapy

- The advantage of couples therapy over individual therapy in the treatment of PTSD

- Transference and counter-transference in couples therapy with MDMA

- Integration of couples experiences with MDMA

- The roles of co-regulation and self-regulation

- How MDMA can be a catalyst for change in couples

"I envision a day where people would be able to choose to do MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in a safe context to be either able to heal from something together or to grow together, and to support the relationship."

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Dr. Anne Wagner. Anne is a Toronto-based psychologist and couples therapist, a researcher studying MDMA-assisted therapy, and the founder of Remedy Centre (remedycentre.ca). Remedy is a social venture that provides individual, couples, and group therapy and reinvests the profit from these services into the Remedy Institute, which is “a new charity focused on supporting mental health innovation & research, including with psychedelics, training for aspiring mental health professionals, as well as low to no-cost therapy services for marginalized communities.”

She is the principal investigator on a pilot trial studying the impact of MDMA-assisted Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT) on PTSD and is planning a study that will examine the impact of MDMA-assisted Cognitive Behavioural Conjoint Therapy (CBCT) on PTSD.

If you’d like to donate to the Remedy Institute, please check out: canadahelps.org/en/charities/remedy-institute

Dr. Joe and Dr. Wagner spoke about:

- The origins of Remedy Centre and the newly created non-profit, the Remedy Institute

- Her research on MDMA-assisted psychotherapy with couples

- Using a form of Cognitive Therapy in her protocols, as opposed to more experiential approaches typically used in psychedelic therapy

- The advantage of couples therapy over individual therapy in the treatment of PTSD

- Transference and counter-transference in couples therapy with MDMA

- Integration of couples experiences with MDMA

- The roles of co-regulation and self-regulation

- How MDMA can be a catalyst for change in couples

“The real medicine is the therapeutic relationship and psychedelics beautifully amplify that.”

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Dr. Rosalind Watts. Dr. Watts is the clinical lead of the Imperial College of London’s Psilocybin for Depression trials. Most recently, she designed the treatment protocol for and served as a guide for participants in a study comparing psilocybin to an antidepressant at the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London. This study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. And she is also a consultant psychologist for Small Pharma who are investigating DMT as a treatment for depression.

She is a clinical psychologist for more than 6 years, and now specializes in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. She is the clinical director for the Synthesis Institute, an organization dedicated to “training practitioners to safely, ethically and effectively support people on a journey for healing using truffles containing psilocybin.” She co-hosts a monthly Psychedelic Integration group, alongside Michelle Baker Jones for participants of psilocybin clinical trials. And she will be launching Twelve Trees Integration, a new 12 month psychedelic community integration program for anyone who has experience with psychedelics. You can sign up for the wait list here: www.drrosalindwatts.com

She also developed the psychedelic therapy model ‘Accept, Connect, Embody (ACE)’ and an iteration for group-based integration of psychedelic experiences ‘Accept, Connect, Embody, Restore' (ACER). It is based on the Hexaflex model in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT).

Dr. Watts and Dr. Joe spoke about:

- The surprising results from Dr. Rosalind Watts’s recent study comparing psilocybin to an antidepressant

- The importance of the therapeutic relationship in healing

- The role of psychological flexibility in mental health

- The ‘Accept, Connect, Embody’ (ACE) model she developed

- Her evolving approach to psychedelic integration

- The integration online groups she co-founded and co-facilitates

- How psychedelics allow people to explore their darkness, whereas antidepressants can hinder that exploration

- A guided visualization exercise based on the ACE model

- The challenges of integrating psychedelic-assisted therapy into mainstream society

“The real medicine is the therapeutic relationship and psychedelics beautifully amplify that.”

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Dr. Rosalind Watts. Dr. Watts is the clinical lead of the Imperial College of London’s Psilocybin for Depression trials. Most recently, she designed the treatment protocol for and served as a guide for participants in a study comparing psilocybin to an antidepressant at the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London. This study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. And she is also a consultant psychologist for Small Pharma who are investigating DMT as a treatment for depression.

She is a clinical psychologist for more than 6 years, and now specializes in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. She is the clinical director for the Synthesis Institute, an organization dedicated to “training practitioners to safely, ethically and effectively support people on a journey for healing using truffles containing psilocybin.” She co-hosts a monthly Psychedelic Integration group, alongside Michelle Baker Jones for participants of psilocybin clinical trials. And she will be launching Twelve Trees Integration, a new 12 month psychedelic community integration program for anyone who has experience with psychedelics. You can sign up for the wait list here: www.drrosalindwatts.com

She also developed the psychedelic therapy model ‘Accept, Connect, Embody (ACE)’ and an iteration for group-based integration of psychedelic experiences ‘Accept, Connect, Embody, Restore' (ACER). It is based on the Hexaflex model in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT).

Dr. Watts and Dr. Joe spoke about:

- The surprising results from Dr. Rosalind Watts’s recent study comparing psilocybin to an antidepressant

- The importance of the therapeutic relationship in healing

- The role of psychological flexibility in mental health

- The ‘Accept, Connect, Embody’ (ACE) model she developed

- Her evolving approach to psychedelic integration

- The integration online groups she co-founded and co-facilitates

- How psychedelics allow people to explore their darkness, whereas antidepressants can hinder that exploration

- A guided visualization exercise based on the ACE model

- The challenges of integrating psychedelic-assisted therapy into mainstream society

"All we're really trying to do is help people practice being more sensitive to their inner and outer surroundings. We're helping people build awareness and feel comfortable being fully awake in every moment of their life."

In this episode of the Mindspace podcast, Dr. Joe speaks with Steve Rio, former social impact entrepreneur and now 5-MeO-DMT and breathwork guide. He founded and runs the Enfold Institute where he guides small groups through 5-MeO-DMT psychedelic experiences. Steve is also the co-founder of Nature of Work, an 8-week program and company designed help people “build new habits and master your time, energy, and attention.” He was also co-founder and CEO of Briteweb, a social impact agency that “works with nonprofits, foundations and purpose-driven companies and helps them with marketing.” His work centres around helping people build clarity, connection, sensitivity, helping each individual realize their full potential in their life.

His focus is currently on his work with guiding small groups through their experiences with 5-MeO-DMT. He and his wife help prepare participants before the experience, during, after with integration. 5-MeO-DMT is extracted from the venom of the Sonoran Desert toad. It can now be synthesized in a lab. It is a close relative to DMT.

Steve and Dr. Joe spoke about:

What is 5-MeO-DMT?

His personal experiences with 5-MeO-DMT and they impacted his life

His beliefs on spirituality

The public’s distrust of institutions

The role that top-down institutions will play in the psychedelic renaissance

The role that bottom-up, decentralized can and should play in the psychedelic renaissance

How he helps participants to prepare for their 5-MeO-DMT retreats, how he guides them throughout the process, and how he helps them integrate their experiences in the later months

How 5-MeO-DMT can help people align with their values, build clarity, connection, and develop a sense of peace