Ministry Deep Dive

Travis and Jake continue their conversation discussing his book, "What Are Christians For?" Surprisingly, there is a great deal of confusion as to what the role of Christians should be in society. Is it only to be disciples who make disciples? Is it to glorify God and enjoy Him forever? What about in our public life? What role does our Christian faith play in the political sphere? Our vocation? Does it have any effect on the environment? The answer may surprise you.

Jake is the editor-in-chief of Mere Orthodoxy, an online periodical seeking to be a voice of sanity in the midst of craziness. His writing has appeared in First Things, Books & Culture, Christianity Today, Commonweal, Front Porch Republic, National Review and Fare Forward. He is the author of two books, In Search of the Common Good: Christian Fidelity in a Fractured World and What are Christians for?: Life Together at the End of the World.

Travis and Jake discuss Lincoln, Nebraska, Tanzania, Wendell Berry, N.T. Wright, Herman Bavinck, Francis Schaeffer, Elisabeth Elliot, and what our role as Christians is to be in the world.

Episodes referred to in this episode:

Listen to #234 | What Are Christians For? with Jake Meador, Pt. 1

Learn more about Jake.

Check out Mere Orthodoxy.

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

What Are Christians For? Is it only to be disciples who make disciples? Is it to glorify God and enjoy Him forever? What about in our public life? What role does our Christian faith play in the political sphere? Our vocation? Does it have any effect on the environment? The answer is an unequivocal, yes!

Jake Meador is today's guest on Apollos Watered, discussing his book, What Are Christians For?

Jake is the editor-in-chief of Mere Orthodoxy, an online periodical seeking to be a voice of sanity in the midst of craziness. His writing has appeared in First Things, Books & Culture, Christianity Today, Commonweal, Front Porch Republic, National Review and Fare Forward. He is the author of two books, In Search of the Common Good: Christian Fidelity in a Fractured World and What are Christians for?: Life Together at the End of the World.

Travis and Jake discuss Lincoln, Nebraska, Tanzania, Wendell Berry, N.T. Wright, Herman Bavinck, Francis Schaeffer, Elisabeth Elliot, and what our role as Christians is to be in the world.

Learn more about Jake.

Check out Mere Orthodoxy.

Sign up for the class, "God's Greatness | Your Mission" here!

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

Takeaways:

• The complexity of modern life necessitates a robust Christian faith capable of addressing myriad challenges.
• Many individuals are deconstructing their faith due to a lack of comprehensive teaching on Christian life and purpose.
• Christians are called not only to make disciples but also to engage meaningfully with cultural and societal issues.
• The conversation explores the broader implications of what it means to be a Christian in a fragmented world.
• The book 'What are Christians for?' challenges readers to reevaluate their understanding of Christian identity and mission.
• Understanding the historical context of Christianity can illuminate contemporary issues and inform a holistic approach to faith.

What do you need in your relationship with God? I am sure you can think of many things. One thing that has helped so many Christians and churches is developing a relationship with global Christians, and in doing so, you find your vision of God expands, your relationship with God deepens, and your zeal for ministry exponentially increases. Today's guest, Stephen Pardue, takes us on a journey into the global church and how global theology increases our view of God, helps us to join with what God is already doing, and fulfills His mission with our neighbors who are different from us.

Stephen T. Pardue (PhD, Wheaton College) directs the ThM/PhD in theological studies and church history at the Asia Graduate School of Theology and teaches theology at the International Graduate School of Leadership in Manila, Philippines. He is the author of Why Evangelical Theology Needs the Global Church and the coeditor of 10 books, including Majority World Theology and Asian Christian Theology. He and his wife, Teri, have four children and belong to Union Church of Manila.

Sign up for the class, "God's Greatness | Your Mission" here!

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

A couple of the episodes referenced in today's episode:

#150 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 1 | Kevin Vanhoozer

#151 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 2 | Kevin Vanhoozer

In this second part of our conversation, Travis and Tom discuss our political witness, premillennial dispensationalism, bad theology, Christian nationalism, and how the gospel is bigger than we often realize. While the gospel encapsulates our personal salvation, there is much more involved than just that, but the redemption of all creation.

Understanding Tom means understanding not only what he is saying, but what he is responding to. Without that as a backdrop, you miss his point. Listen in and hear not only what he says, but what he is responding to, and as if often the case, it's the abuses in mind.

N.T. Wright (Tom) is currently Research Professor Emeritus of New Testament and Early Christianity at St Mary’s College in the University of St Andrews and Senior Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. He has authored or co-authored over 90 books, and today he joins Apollos Watered to discuss his newest book, "Jesus and the Powers: Christian Political Witness in an Age of Totalitarian Terror and Dysfunctional Democracies."

Other episodes referred to in this episode:

#150 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 1 | Kevin Vanhoozer

#151 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 2 | Kevin Vanhoozer

#226 | The Church Between Temple & Mosque | Dan Strange

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

Takeaways:

• N.T. Wright emphasizes that the problem with sin is not merely personal failure, but failing to fulfill God's creational purposes in the world.
• The concept of being human in a biblical sense includes being agents of God's restorative work in creation, not just focusing on individual salvation.
• Politics from a theological perspective requires Christians to view political engagement as part of their mission to embody God's kingdom on earth.
• Wright critiques Western individualism in Christianity, advocating for a corporate understanding of faith and community that reflects our shared identity in Christ.
• The church's political witness must challenge both external powers and internal inconsistencies, holding leaders accountable to God's standards.
• Wright argues that genuine political engagement should reflect the values of the kingdom of God, prioritizing love and justice for all people.

What should our Christian political witness look like in an age of totalitarian terror and dysfunctional democracies? What is the church's role between Jesus and Caesar? What does Jesus' kingdom look like in the shadow of empire? How do we testify to the powers? How do we resist them?

Today we welcome N.T. Wright to the show. Prof. Wright is currently a Research Professor Emeritus of New Testament and Early Christianity at St Mary’s College in the University of St Andrews and a Senior Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. He has authored or co-authored over 90 books, and today he joins Apollos Watered to discuss his newest book, "Jesus and the Powers: Christian Political Witness in an Age of Totalitarian Terror and Dysfunctional Democracies."

Takeaways:

• Tom Wright emphasizes the importance of understanding the political implications of the Gospel.
• The kingdom of God is not just a spiritual concept but has earthly significance.
• Christians are called to engage in politics wisely and biblically, not reactively.
• The church should reflect a diverse community that challenges societal norms of division.
• Dark powers influence human authority, and Christians must discern these influences in society.
• The church's witness is to embody love and unity, showcasing God's kingdom in action.

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

What role does politics play in the mission of God? How do we navigate the political field without stepping on a cultural landmine? What should our political engagement look like? And what do we do with things like Christian nationalism?

Today's guest is Cherie Harder, President of the Trinity Forum. Cherie Harder serves as President of the Trinity Forum. Before joining the Trinity Forum in 2008, Ms. Harder served in the White House as Special Assistant to the President and Director of Policy and Projects for First Lady Laura Bush.

Earlier in her career she served as Policy Advisor to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, advising the Leader on domestic social issues and serving as liaison and outreach director to outside groups. From 2001 to 2005, she was Senior Counselor to the Chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH), where she helped the Chairman design and launch the We the People initiative to enhance the teaching, study, and understanding of American history. Before that, Ms. Harder was the Policy Director for Senator Sam Brownback and also served as Deputy Policy Director at Empower America.

She holds an Honors B.A. (magna cum laude) in government from Harvard University and a post-graduate diploma in literature from the University of Queensland in Brisbane, Australia, where she was a Rotary Scholar. She is also a Senior Fellow at Cardus, an Editorial Board member of Comment magazine, a past board member of Gordon College and the C.S. Lewis Institute, a current board member of the Convergence Center for Policy Resolution and Faith and Law, and an advisory board member of the National Museum of American Religion.

Check out The Trinity Forum

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

There are so many things that are happening in our world today and churches are trying to figure out what to do next. What do we do next? How can we be faithful and fruitful in this moment? How do we do community in this world when people are already so busy?

Pastor and author Stephen McAlpine shows us that the answers aren't that complex. We can future-proof our churches. Listen in as Travis and Stephen discuss Stephen's new book, Futureproof: How to Live for Jesus in a Culture That Keeps on Changing (Discipleship resource: a Christian response to cultural change and the future of the church)

Check out Stephen's website.

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

#futureproof #stephenmcalpine #Christianity #church #churchinnorthamerica #reformation #rechurching #Jesus #Christ #brideofchrist #hope #christisking #apolloswatered #wateringfaith #travismichaelfleming #evangelicalism #Christian #goodnews #churchattendance #americanevangelicalism #committed

Takeaways:

• The contemporary church must refocus its hope on the age to come, as emphasized in the Bible, to navigate the present cultural challenges.
• It is imperative for church leaders to articulate the return of Jesus as the cataclysmic event that will usher in our ultimate hope.
• To effectively future-proof the church, individuals must resist the temptation to seek fulfillment solely in present circumstances and instead look towards God's eternal promises.
• The cultural discombobulation experienced today requires church leaders to provide a clear and compelling vision that transcends mere moral guidance or therapeutic messages.
• As society becomes increasingly secular, churches must foster deeper communal connections among believers to counter the isolating effects of modern life.
• The church's mission in a hostile culture is to showcase beauty, justice, and mercy, reflecting God's character in a world that often overlooks these values.

The stats reveal trouble in evangelicalism, Bible reading is down, church attendance is down, and the none's are rising. What's going on?

In The Great Dechurching, authors Michael Graham, Jim Davis, and Ryan P. Burge have done the work and come back with the stats. It's both better and worse than we could imagine. 40 million people have stopped going to church in the last 25 years and that's just the tip of the iceberg. However, amid such depressing news, there is hope. Because many of them are willing and ready to come back!

Listen as Travis and Michael Graham discuss the book, the stats, and what we can do to help connect people to Jesus and His church.

Referenced in this episode is Dechurching.com, The Keller Center.

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

#thegreatdechurching #Christianity #church #churchinnorthamerica #reformation #rechurching #Jesus #Christ #brideofchrist #hope #christisking #MichaelGraham #theKellerCenter #apolloswatered #wateringfaith #travismichaelfleming #evangelicalism #Christian #goodnews #churchattendance #americanevangelicalism

Takeaways:

• The term 'dechurching' describes individuals who attended church regularly but now do so less than once a year.
• Michael Graham's research reveals a staggering 40 million people have left church over the past 25 years.
• Many who left did so for pragmatic reasons, not due to theological disagreements or scandals.
• Over half of those who left evangelical churches are open to returning if invited.
• The study identifies distinct profiles of de churched individuals, each with unique reasons and circumstances.
• There is hope as many de churched individuals still maintain a positive view of evangelicalism.

Everywhere we look its about us. How "we" want things, "our" true self, "our" vision of the world, what "we" want, etc. Even algorithms cater to us, giving us more and more of what we want, but is that the secret to happiness? Getting more of what "we" want? There is a better way. By taking the focus off of ourselves and getting our focus back on God, that's not easy. We need some help. Who could help us refocus? How about from "those who are dead and yet still speak"? We need to go back and listen to those voices with God-centered lives: Jonathan Edwards, C.S. Lewis, and Augustine.

Today, we welcome one of the greatest living historians of American history, George Marsden, who can help us do just that. Dr. Marsden brings Edwards into the twenty-first century, along with Augustine and C.S. Lewis, he helps us to see how we can reorient our lives in our modern times to be more God-centered and ordered by our loves rather than the algorithms of our modern world.

Dr. Marsden is Professor of History Emeritus at the University of Notre Dame, is an influential historian who has written extensively on the interaction between Christianity and American culture, particularly on Christianity in American higher education and on American evangelicalism. He is well known for his biography Jonathan Edwards: A Life. He has authored other books including The Soul of the American University, Religion and American Culture, Fundamentalism and American Culture, and C.S. Lewis’s “Mere Christianity”: A Biography.

Marsden studied at Haverford College, Westminster Theological Seminary, and Yale University; he has taught at Calvin University, Duke University, and the University of Notre Dame.

Today, we discuss his newest book on Edwards, "An Infinite Fountain of Light: Jonathan Edwards for the Twenty-First Century."

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

Takeaways:

• The exploration of Jonathan Edwards' theological insights offers a profound understanding of authentic Christianity amid contemporary ideological distractions.
• Dr. George Marsden emphasizes the importance of historical context when interpreting the works of Jonathan Edwards and their relevance today.
• Edwards' notion of rightly ordered loves serves as a guiding principle for Christians to assess their faith and its impact on their community.
• Understanding the intersection of Christianity and culture is essential to grasp how faith evolves and influences societal norms over time.
• The revivalist spirit of the 18th century, exemplified by Edwards, invites a reconsideration of modern evangelical practices and their theological foundations.
• Marsden articulates the necessity of humility and charity as core virtues within the Christian community, reflecting the true essence of Christ-like love.

Where does Christianity stand between Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and the like? How do we build a relationship with those of other religions without losing ourselves in the process? What are the bridges that need to be crossed to lead them to Jesus?

What is the mission of the church today? What role does the cultural mandate play? And how can the 20th-century Dutch missiologist, J.H. Bavinck help us understand the mission today so that we can do it both faithfully and fruitfully? What role does contextualization play in communicating that mission? That's what we discussed on today's show!

Daniel Strange is the director of Crosslands Forum and the vice president of The Southgate Fellowship. He is one of the inaugural fellows of The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics and is the author of Their Rock Is Not Like Our Rock: A Theology of Religions (Zondervan, 2015), Plugged In (The Good Book Company, 2019), and Making Faith Magnetic (The Good Book Company, 2021) (the book we are talking about today!) He is a contributing editor for Themelios and an elder of Hope Community Church, Gateshead, U.K., which is part of the Fellowship of Evangelical Churches (FIEC).

It's a fantastic, fun, and faith-filled conversation that can help you build a bridge with unbelievers so that they too can know Jesus. This is a must-listen!

Check out #177 Daniel Strange, Pt. 1 and #178 Daniel Strange, Pt. 2

Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.

Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!