What happens when you love Jesus, love ministry, love the people you're serving, and still find yourself praying that your board will fire you?

Justin Hoehner has been there.

On this episode of Ministry Minded, Dr. Nick Bank and Lincoln Murdoch sit down with Justin, the director of Camp Comeca near Cozad, Nebraska, for a candid conversation about pastoral burnout, false guilt, rest, resilience, and finishing well.

Justin opens up about some of the darkest seasons of his ministry, while Lincoln shares lessons from more than four decades of ministry about pacing yourself, knowing when to step back, and resisting the temptation to believe that being needed means being faithful.

They talk about why pastors can become "addicted to being needed," why rest can trigger false guilt, and why sometimes the most spiritual thing you can do is stop and simply be with Jesus.

Justin also talks about Camp Comeca's Pastor Stay program, Mission Impact Camps, and the upcoming Rooted and Resilient retreat for pastors and their spouses.

You don't have to burn out to be faithful.

Sometimes finishing well means learning how to rest.

Dr. Bank's Book: Down Like Jesus: Navigating Pastoral Pain in the Footsteps of Christ
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FPQT4S2W

Lincoln's Book: See You at the Finish
https://www.stepuptolife.com/store/p/palm-r39wy

Pastoral Retreats at Camp Comeca:
https://comeca.camp/mission-impact/#pml_mic

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www.StepUpToLife.com

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Pastor Bart Wilkins has faithfully served the same church for more than 30 years. In this conversation, he shares the lessons, challenges, and convictions that have shaped his ministry—and what every pastor and ministry leader can learn from them.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why church planting is harder—and more rewarding—than most people expect.
• What Bart would tell his younger self if he could start ministry over.
• How to stay faithful through three decades of pastoral leadership.
• Building a discipleship pathway that actually produces disciple-makers.
• Why Flatland Church launched the Omaha School of Ministry.
• Developing future pastors and ministry leaders through theological training.
• Why Step Up to Life is becoming central to Flatland's discipleship strategy.
• Using Step Up to Life in baptism and membership classes to help people understand the gospel, evaluate their spiritual journey, and learn to share their faith.

Whether you're planting a church, leading an established congregation, or investing in the next generation of leaders, this conversation offers practical wisdom for the long game of ministry.

Flatland Church Website: https://www.flatlandchurch.com/

Flatland's Discipleship Pathway: https://www.flatlandchurch.com/discipleship-pathway

Omaha School of Ministry: The Omaha School of Ministry (OSM), located at Flatland Church, partners with Southwestern Assemblies of God University to offer hands-on leadership training combined with accredited online degree programs.

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In this conversation, Dr. Nick Bank and Jared Kliewer—founder of Presence Ministries (www.Presence-Ministries.org)—explore the hidden emotional and spiritual cost of long-term ministry leadership, especially the quiet collapse that often goes unseen behind the pulpit.
Jared shares his personal journey through COVID-era leadership strain, the loss of a co-pastor, anxiety on stage, and his eventual transition out of staff ministry into founding Presence Ministries, a nonprofit dedicated to caring for weary and wounded ministry leaders.

Together, they unpack several core dynamics shaping pastoral formation and breakdown:

The pastoral isolation cycle, where leaders feel unable to safely disclose struggles.

1. Performance-driven identity rooted in unresolved attachment wounds.
2. Distorted images of God as an harsh evaluator rather than a delighting presence.
3. The danger of conflating vocation with identity and becoming dependent on being needed. 

The episode also highlights practical pathways toward healing, including contemplative journaling, relational safety, and the presence-centered framework influenced by Dr. Curt Thompson, where vulnerability, attuned presence, and the presence of Jesus converge in healing.

Nick also references formative voices and communities shaping this conversation, including his book Down Like Jesus, the Kineo Institute, Standing Stone Ministry, and Dr. Geoff and Cyd Holsclaw’s work.

*Jared's Presence-Ministries: https://www.Presence-Ministries.org 

*Dr. Bank's Book: Down Like Jesus: https://a.co/d/0dW4xa89 

* Spiritual Health Assessment: https://form.typeform.com/to/dPmkNlle 

*Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com

*Kineo Center's Free Burnout Quiz: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/686eba2f783d5700154ef51b

*Standing Stone Ministry: https://standingstoneministry.org
*Cyd Holsclaw: https://www.cydholsclaw.com
*Attaching to God (Geoff & Cyd Holsclaw): https://www.attachingtogod.com
*InterVarsity Press author page for Geoff Holsclaw: https://www.ivpress.com/geoff-holsclaw

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In this episode of Ministry Minded, Dr. Nick Bank and SUTL Executive Director Lincoln Murdoch are joined by Step Up To Life’s newest team member, Alex Daum, to talk about what actually makes a sermon effective.

With over 40 years of preaching experience as a pastor, missionary, and church planter, Lincoln reflects on a lifetime of communicating God’s Word. Alex brings a decade of experience preaching to middle and high school students in audiences ranging from 100 to 1,000, while Dr. Bank shares insights shaped by decades in pastoral ministry and his doctoral work in Advanced Biblical Preaching.

Together, they tackle questions every pastor and Bible teacher should be asking:

• What makes a sermon “good”—biblically and practically?
• How can we interpret Scripture responsibly without losing clarity?
• Why did Jesus rely so heavily on stories, and what can we learn from that?
• Why do so many sermons fail to stick—and how can we preach so people actually remember and apply God’s Word?

If you’ve ever wondered why people struggle to retain or live out what they hear on Sunday, this conversation will challenge and equip you to preach with greater clarity, faithfulness, and lasting impact.

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www.StepUpToLife.com 

In this episode of Ministry Minded, hosts Nick Bank and Lincoln Murdoch (briefly, from bed post-surgery) introduce a major development within Step Up To Life: the appointment of Alex Daum as U.S. National Director of Youth Evangelism and Strategic Partnerships.

Alex brings over a decade of frontline ministry experience with the Todd Becker Foundation—engaging public high schools, discipling gap-year students, and leading thousands of one-on-one gospel conversations across the Midwest. But his story begins much earlier—with a hidden life of sin, a crisis of eternity, and a moment of deep conviction that led to true repentance and saving faith.

This episode is more than an announcement. It’s a window into a growing burden:

-Why Gen Z is more spiritually open than we think
-The evangelism gap in modern youth ministry
-How apologetics and gospel clarity must work together
-Why most believers don’t share their faith—and how to change that
-A bold new initiative: the Step Up To Life Ambassadors Program

Together, Nick and Alex unpack a vision to equip young believers not just to know their faith—but to articulate and multiply it. This isn’t about replacing existing ministries—it’s about refining them. Strengthening them. Igniting a culture where students move from passive belief to active disciple-making.

You’ll also hear:
-A powerful testimony of transformation from pornography and spiritual apathy to radical obedience

-Real stories of students confidently defending the faith in everyday conversations

-Insights into building resilient, gospel-centered leaders in a hostile and confused culture

-Why fear—not theology—is the biggest barrier to evangelism

-How God often leads step-by-step, not all at once

This is a conversation for pastors, youth leaders, parents, and anyone burdened for the next generation. Because the question isn’t whether young people are searching. It’s whether the Church is ready to meet them with truth in a way they find compassionate and compelling.

🔑 Key Topics & Timestamps (Optional Add-On for YouTube/SEO)
(00:00) Major Announcement: New Role at Step Up To Life
(05:00) Alex Daum’s Testimony: From Sin to Saving Faith
(15:00) Inside the Todd Becker Foundation Model
(25:00) Why Gen Z Is Spiritually Open Right Now
(35:00) The Vision: Step Up To Life Ambassadors Program
(45:00) Apologetics + Evangelism: A Missing Link
(55:00) Real Story: A Teen Defends the Faith at Work
(1:05:00) The Future of Youth Discipleship

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In this episode of Ministry-Minded, Nick and Lincoln reflect on a remarkable season of global ministry—spanning continents, cultures, and contexts—yet marked by a shared hunger for one thing: a clear, biblical gospel.

Fresh off the Asia Summit in Bali, they recount powerful, firsthand stories of transformation—from unlikely leaders in hostile environments to pastors shaped through suffering and perseverance. These accounts don’t just inspire—they raise deeper questions about what true conversion really looks like.

A striking theme emerges: across the world, many are beginning to recognize the difference between superficial responses and genuine saving faith. That same realization is now surfacing closer to home, with unexpected responses from students and church communities alike.

As the conversation unfolds, Nick and Lincoln also share how new tools and training are helping equip believers to engage in clearer, more faithful gospel conversations—both locally and globally.

This episode is both sobering and hopeful: a reminder that the gospel must be clear, and that real transformation still changes everything.

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In this episode, we sit down with several of our Step Up To Life champions from across Asia—pastors serving in Pakistan, Myanmar, India, Singapore, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Japan. Through a series of honest, hope-filled conversations, they share how they continue to press forward in ministry amid persecution and ongoing financial challenges, while faithfully bringing the gospel into prisons, their local communities, and school children. You’ll hear how they are using Step Up To Life as a simple, powerful tool to communicate the gospel more clearly and effectively within their own cultures and networks. As you listen, we invite you to join us in praying for a smooth, fruitful season of ministry as these leaders return home and multiply what God is doing through them.

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https://youtu.be/oFhq-9ucRSc?si=x7LMx8gNoxMIarNJ

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Modern psychology is often shaped by humanism and self-definition—frameworks that conflict with biblical anthropology. Many pastors sense that tension but feel unsure how to navigate it faithfully.

In this episode of Ministry Minded, Lincoln Murdoch and Nick Bank are joined by licensed therapist Joe Slabaugh of CityCare Counseling (Omaha, NE) for an honest, theologically serious conversation about Scripture, counseling, discernment, and the care of souls.

Joe draws from his background in ministry and clinical counseling to explain:

• Why the “Bible vs. counseling” tension persists in doctrinally serious churches
• How much of modern therapy is rooted in humanistic assumptions
• Why discernment—not rejection or uncritical acceptance—is the biblical path forward
• How the doctrine of common grace helps Christians evaluate counseling wisely
• The difference between distress, dysfunction, trauma, and ordinary pain
• Why shame is often the hidden root beneath anxiety, depression, and relational breakdown
• How confidentiality and structure make counseling distinct from casual pastoral conversations
• Why many pastors carry loneliness and emotional weight in silence
• What pastors and church leaders should actually look for when evaluating a counselor
• How Joe incorporates the Step Up To Life gospel framework in counseling when appropriate—without violating ethical or professional boundaries

This is not an argument for replacing Scripture with psychology.
It is a call to clearer theological thinking, wiser pastoral discernment, and more faithful care of human souls.

This episode is especially for:

• Pastors and elders who take the sufficiency of Scripture seriously
• Ministry leaders wary of secular ideologies
• Christians who care deeply about soul care, discipleship, and spiritual health
• Anyone trying to understand whether counseling can be approached biblically

You don’t need less conviction.
You need clearer discernment.

Guest: Joe Slabaugh, Licensed Therapist – CityCare Counseling
Featuring: Lincoln Murdoch, Executive Director – Step Up To Life
Host: Nick Bank, U.S. National Director – Step Up To Life

CityCare Counseling:
https://www.citycarecounseling.org/

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What started as gathering of believers has become a living picture of what God can do when generations say yes together. In this episode, C.J. Greiner and Nick Failla share the story behind an unexpected church gathering that began drawing Gen Z—and quickly revealed a deeper calling neither of them saw coming. What they thought was a moment turned into a mandate: to shepherd a community where older and younger believers walk side by side as one family.

C.J. and Nick unpack how God invited them into leading together, bridging generational gaps so that seasoned saints could step into their role as spiritual mothers and fathers, and younger believers could be formed, grounded, and sent. They challenge the modern idea of “revival culture,” explaining that revival isn’t about chasing the next emotional high, conference, or moment—but about cultivating Christian discipline, shared life, and faithfulness rooted in ancient community and the practices of the early church.

This conversation is a call back to something deeper:

• A church shaped by relationship, not hype
• Spiritual formation over spiritual consumption
• Intergenerational discipleship as God’s design
• Revival as a sustained way of life, not a fleeting experience

If you’re hungry for a faith that lasts, a church that feels like family, and a vision of revival grounded in history, humility, and holiness—this episode is for you.

Pastor C.J.'s Book: https://a.co/d/70HqU9Q

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In this conversation, Jimmy George — Executive Director of Fresh Start for All Nations — opens up about the deeply personal journey behind his ministry. Before he ever helped others walk in freedom, he had to confront a “missing piece” in his own sanctification.

Although he carried years of solid biblical training and pastoral experience, Jimmy realized that information alone wasn’t forming him into the kind of shepherd Christ was calling him to be. The Lord invited him to slow down, look honestly at his own hurts, and move from information to transformation. That required facing moments of woundedness, misunderstanding, disappointment, and pastoral pain — and allowing the Holy Spirit to bring healing where he had previously just pushed through.

In this episode, Jimmy unpacks what forgiveness truly is (and what it is not), how the gospel frees wounded hearts, and how leaders can walk in greater wholeness through the Fresh Start process. It’s a timely, hope-filled conversation for anyone longing to experience the deep, liberating work of Christ that restores the heart and renews the call.

www.FreshStartForAllNations.org

or Text: 'Fresh Start' to 55444

Get Dr. Bank's Book: 'Down Like Jesus: Navigating Pastoral Pain in the Footsteps of Christ' here: https://a.co/d/dVK5rWO

Support the show

www.StepUpToLife.com