Mission Control Podcast by Michael Stearns

October 27, 2022 How Radio Helped Oberg Roofing Sell $15,000,000 in Roofs!

On this episode, Mike has on Caleb Oberg of Oberg Roofing. Caleb's story is unique in the sense that it took him a few years to find his marketing secret to getting his roofing to be as successful as it is today.

In this episode, Caleb shares the ups & downs of starting his business and his top trick for his marketing!

Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr ==== ==== ====

ep 7

[00:00:00] Caleb: You gotta pick one and you got like, you gotta do the one that works with your market and your business. Especially

[00:00:06] Mike: with branding efforts, consistency and having the right expectation for yourself when you're investing in is really important.

[00:00:15] Caleb: Or if you're gonna do marketing, like do one thing really well and like own that thing before you go on and try and like do everything.

[00:00:31] Mike: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Mission Control podcast. I'm your host, Mike Stears. This is episode seven already. Thank you for tuning in today. We have a very, very special guest, Caleb Oberg of Oberg Roofing, out of the great state of Minnesota.

[00:00:45] Caleb: Welcome, Caleb. What's up? Lucky number seven, let's go.

Listen,

[00:00:50] Mike: man, happy to have you today. For sure. You're gonna wanna stick around from start to finish. You've got a great story. It's compelling, it's enticing, it's everything you could think of, dream of, and so much more again. Thank you Caleb. So just to kind of give you guys some context, I met Caleb at an event that was put on what about three weeks ago.

It was roofing ahead of the curve, thrown by, brought to you by TJ McCormick, the world's greatest roofer and euro shield among many others. And uh, I'm walking into the event and we're in the lobby ish area where vendors are getting set up and I see this guy and he looks like he knows his shit. Alright, so obviously I'm intrigued.

So me being me, we strike up a conversation. I had him like my YouTube channel. That was great. Appreciate you Caleb. Um, but he had a story, It was a story as far as like how he's gone about marketing his company and it truly is. Unique in the sense that I have dealt with hundreds of contractors, and I don't think anyone has gone about acquiring the type of year over year growth that Caleb has by the means he has.

So we're gonna talk about that a little bit. But Caleb, why don't we introduce you in the sense of like, who is Caleb overt? How did you get started in roofing? Give the fans what they want. Let's hear

[00:02:17] Caleb: it. Right on, man. Well, I'm, I mean, I'm 41 years old and I've spent a majority of my life, uh, in the roofing industry.

I've been doing it for 22 years. And, um, I mean, I got, I'm a father of four. I got two grand babies, um, very busy. Loved doing a lot of, lot of everything. Sports, shooting, hunting, you name it. Nice. Just got done playing a, a state softball tournament over the weekend. Came in forth to play. Unfortunately, we, we didn't take down the ship, but you know, Um, so yeah, over roofing, we started in 2017.

Um, just been rocking and rolling ever since. Okay. So you

[00:02:58] Mike: started right around five years ago. You've been in the industry for 22 years, carry the one, so that leaves 15 years before you get between you getting started and over roofing coming to fruition. So what was that journey like?

[00:03:14] Caleb: Oh man, it was a long journey.

Um, started, you know, year one, my, my uncle had a roofing business out in, uh, the southwest corner of Colorado. It's, um, it's not the nice part of Colorado. It's kind of like the desert. Okay. Um, and uh, he asked me to come out there. I was, uh, 20 years old and I was kind of in between jobs. Didn't really ever give roofing a thought.

Um, because I don't know, like my dad's history, whatever, he kind of been, uh, working in like warehouses and stuff like that. He was a supervisor for many years. And, um, I had kind of dabbled in that myself. Um, and yeah, I was kind of looking for something else. A couple of my buddies were doing, uh, framing and some other labor work, and I thought maybe, you know, this could be something for me.

So, gave it a shot. Went out to Colorado, spent, uh, three months in the spring out there. Um, basically it was, uh, you mean I, I'll tell you, the, the first roof I ever did is still, to this day, the worst roof I've ever done, . So that's, that's something, man, cuz uh, literally every job after that, uh, my entire roofing career as a roofing installer has been easier than the first one I did.

So, and, and I mean, and I, for roofers out there, I mean, you'll get this, uh, probably anybody, we were up on this, uh, shack up in the, up in the woods or up in the hills a little bit. Um, and it was this old, you know, handbuilt place. And, uh, the, the framing on the roof, the, the decking was like this really thick, like three quarter to one inch board.

It was all, you know, hand cut or whatever. And there was three layers of cedar shakes installed in this roof that all had to be torn

[00:04:51] Mike: off. A lot of fun,

[00:04:52] Caleb: tearing it off. Right. The third layer was nailed on, was 16 Penny Nails. Um, telling you, I was like, I think I got, you know, carpal tunnel on one roofing job.

I don't know what possessed me to keep going, , you know, But I was like, whatever. I'm like, I'm in Colorado, right? I'm, I'm not gonna like, you know, bail out and, uh, and uh, head home. Now I'm gonna see what's, what else is out there for me. So, um, yeah, I mean, it got started out there. Um, you know, that lasted for a few months.

My uncle was planning on moving back to Minnesota anyways, uh, to where he was born and raised. So he came back to Minnesota. He had some connections here in the roofing, um, industry, uh, other companies that he would kind of subcontract from. He was also getting a few of his own jobs from some people that he knew.

So I was, I was kind of doing that. I had enough, um, Skills. And then he gave me all of his kind of equipment, any anyways to like continue to do roofing here. So, um, basically found a couple guys that wanted to, to work. So we did that for a little while. Um, ended up going down to the cities, doing some work down there in the Minneapolis area.

I'm from St. Cloud, Minnesota. It's about an hour north of, of the Minneapolis metro area, just for context. Um, so yeah, I mean like that ultimately didn't go down like the, the greatest path. It didn't continue, um, too much there. Um, oh, oh, you know, uh, eventually hooked up with the buddy that was roofing for another company in the St.

Cloud area. So I moved back to St. Cloud. Um, we had another friend that joined us, so there was like three of us out of the five guys on the crew. And we were doing a lot of new construction for this company that we were working for. We. Collectively became roommates and we started talking a bunch about, you know, how good we were at roofing.

I was like, man, this is easy. Like we should turn this into a business, right? And so, um, basically we had, we had that idea, uh, we didn't have a plan or anything. Mm-hmm. , the owner of the business, found out, um, I was kind of talking to his sister at, you know, on the weekend or whatever. I didn't know they had a talking, you know, relationship much.

They were kind of two different people. Sure. Hung out in two complet, different crowds or whatever. Anyway, she told him, and uh, he fired all three of us. He called us into his office, said, If you're gonna start your own business, you're gonna do it right now. Fired us. Wow. So, of course we started our own business.

Um, at this point, I'm 21 years old and I've got two business partners and, um, you know, this is 2001. And, uh, in my first year, and it wasn't even a full year, I made $35,000. My first. , Um, it was more money than I had made previously doing anything before. So yeah, I was like, man, that was a, that was a success.

So, um, that kind of continued, uh, for a little bit and then that partnership broke up and then, um, I started a new partnership with, uh, just the one other guy. His name was actually Caleb as well, so there was two Calebs riff and we were What are the odds? Legit. Yeah, literally. So, um, he was a good dude though.

Um, he was sober by this time, so he was like a really good, um, you know, positive, uh, you know, side of him, right? Sure. When he's 21, you just want to be like, working a lot, drinking a lot, partying a lot. Yeah. But, um, you know, we, we, we'd hang out and party, but, you know, he, he'd keep stuff legit. Nice. So, did that for a while.

Eventually that that company, uh, you know, and the ideas or whatever that everybody else had, was going in a different direction. . Um, I decided that, uh, I didn't want to start a construction company building houses in, and this was in like 2007, um, maybe 2000, Yeah, 2007. And, uh, like I, I could kind of see the market wasn't really gonna continue to go on to the way it was going.

So I decided to hook up with the company, the, the owner that fired me originally and see if, if I could potentially go work for him again. And, uh, with welcome arms, he, he welcomed me in and, uh, made me crew lead right away. And, um, uh, you know, that was, that was cool because he already had an established crew.

Um, they were kind of like bucking me or whatever, and I basically told 'em, I said, Look, if anyone of you guys can put on more square per hour than I can, I'll gladly give you the, the job. You can keep it.

[00:09:22] Mike: You know,

[00:09:23] Caleb: like, Well, who are you? Yeah. Yeah. They're like, Who are you to even say like that? And I'm like, Well, I'm your boss.

Technically, the owner told you and your boss. You know, wager was on the board. Nobody could even touch me. So, you know, I established, you know, my hierarchy from there. Sure. It's pretty cool. I mean, that was like the old days, right? Like, these guys get together and, you know, we, we really were good roofers we're like, we could shingle really fast.

We had, you know, we killed it every day. Um, so that, that went on for a good, like, uh, till the next year. And then, um, the next year I fell two stories off of a roof and, uh, severely injured, my shoulder broke three bones in my lower back. Jesus. And, uh, yeah, the, the employment status was very sketch back then.

I wasn't technically employee. I was basically being paid under the table in cash. And so there was no, you know, work comp, there was no anything. Um, so the, the owner. Uh, in, in some fashion decided, Hey, I'm just gonna give him a company vehicle and I'm gonna create a position in my company for him to be the production manager.

Um, I guess I looked at it as just an opportunity. Um, you know, I, I didn't wanna look at it in a bad way. I needed to make money. I needed to support my children that I had, I had, um, twin daughters that I, I needed to support. So, uh, I looked at it as an opportunity to grow and learn more about this industry that I, I still actually, you know, was really into, I just needed to know more and do more.

And, um, I, I thought it was a really, I mean, just, it's a good opportunity, right? Like, yeah, my mind was always kind of like looking for the next thing. The next thing you know was always an overachiever. I wanted to start a business. I wanted to be crew lead. I always wanted to be like at the top of, you know, the level of everything that was in front of me.

I mean, yeah, I felt like I kind of got kicked backwards being a production manager rather than like the crew lead. . Um, but it, it's what I could do at the time. So fully embraced that. Uh, the owner, you know, I looked to him for some advice on what to do and how to do it. He basically said, Look, just figure it out.

Um, if anything, you're gonna do it better than I do it currently. Cuz he was doing everything else right. And so he's like, This is your sole job. He's like, You'll probably figure out how to do it better than I did. So I was like, Whoa, okay.

[00:11:53] Mike: Nice vote of confidence, right?

[00:11:55] Caleb: Yeah. Yeah. . Yeah, it was either that, I mean either that or he literally just didn't have a clue, like how to train somebody on what he was doing.

Sure. He didn't have the time or whatever. So, um, was doing that for a few months and then all of a sudden we got the biggest hail storm ever that hit the, our market hit right in our back door. And so we were, um, the, the company was working out of the basement of his house. Right in the town that got completely demolished by hail.

Wow. So now, you know, I'm hiring more, uh, roofers. I'm trying to find subcontractors, um, trying to schedule jobs and work with suppliers and, um, seeing all these other companies come in from out town, which was just absolutely insane to me. There was companies coming in from outta state all over the country.

It was just crazy. Yeah. So then, uh, the leads and the, the need for like selling or whatever became so much and too overwhelming and the owner didn't know how to sell or recruit or, or hire a salesperson. So, um, he said, Okay, now you're gonna do sales too. And I'm like,

with what time? Yeah. You know, I'm already doing all the production and I'm, I'm, and I'm hiring crews to try and keep up with the, the sales that you're already getting. Like every one of the neighbors up and down the street. , you know, obviously was going with that company. And then, you know, there there was, it was, it was all over.

And so he is like, well just go knocking on doors and like, you know, put some yard signs down just to let you know, other contractors know that we're gonna be doing these jobs. And I'm like, I don't know how to sell. He's like, Well, J uh, yeah. So, I mean, this was like, you know, the entire thing was just like, just figure it out, dude.

So,

[00:13:47] Mike: So you get frosted into the PM role, Baptism by fire. And since that worked out so well, we're gonna run that back on the sales side. ? Yeah.

[00:13:58] Caleb: Got it. All right. Good. Am I Okay, So, I mean, I didn't even know that insurance was gonna be any different from the, you know, retail and I didn't even really know what sales was like anyway.

So all I had really to support what I would say to the customers was I knew what hail damage looked like because I went on a few roofs. Just to try and establish that as a base. And I knew all of the things that went into actually installing a roof and doing it the right way, because I'd been doing that already for like, um, you know, seven years.

Right. So, Sure. Uh, I just kind of talked about those things and I was just trying to be myself and I mean, it was, it was very receptive to everybody, right? So, um, there was a lot of other nuances that happened with, you know, storm stuff and all that kind of, you know, threw me for a lot of curve balls, you know?

[00:14:49] Mike: Yeah. I think that, uh, that, that situation kind of get thrown in with, I guess, limited practical experience. It allows more authenticity to kind of bleed through, right? Where you're just coming from a place of trying to help you understand what the damage looks like. Like you may not be an expert in the claims process, let's say, from start to finish, but if somebody feels like they're there, you're there to help 'em and they can, um, they can forge some sort of relationship with you.

I think that, you know, sometimes that can be really, really helpful in the absence, especially a practical know. some would even argue at some point that you can load up on all the product knowledge and, and the, the process of it and really inundate lose people because of that. Right? Yeah. That's the thing.

[00:15:33] Caleb: Yeah. Yeah. No, it, it definitely holds true. Like, uh, you know, um, what is it? Like listen more than you speak type of thing, right? Mm-hmm. and I would just go off, you know, and I, cuz I had a million stories about everything that I ran into as a roofer. Yeah. You know, so they were just like, Man, I don't even have a chimney on my roof.

And I'm like, Oh, well . But if you did

[00:15:54] Mike: Yeah. And if you ever do in the future, you're welcome. Yeah. That's awesome. So dude, let's talk, let's talk for a moment. Let's talk about the fact that, okay, so you fell off a two story building mm-hmm. shoulder injury, broken back. Like I feel like we kind of just glossed over that so we can get back to the rest in a moment, but I definitely wanna hone in on that for a second.

So, Like, what was that like? What were, what were the circumstances surrounding that? Um, yeah, tell us

[00:16:23] Caleb: all about it. So, um, yeah, so we were working on this like, uh, this large, uh, retirement, uh, building. It was kind of like an apartment, um, for, for like, uh, retired people. And, um, we were behind the gun and, uh, there was a guy that I was, uh, teamed up with to, um, you know, tear off and dry in and shingle his section.

And, um, you know, that guy, for whatever reason was afraid it happened to be a seven 12 pitch roof. Um, you know, we didn't use any safety measures back then. I was, I've always been pretty fearless and, you know, didn't really care. Nobody told me I had to do it. The owner didn't tell me I had to do it, so I wasn't gonna do it.

So the other guy, uh, unfortunately didn't have the same, you know, no fear attitude. I'm down there on the bottom row, um, putting on the ice and water shield, we'd already torn off, cleaned up, all that stuff. I'm rolling it out. Um, I was like, I had taken two of those 16 ounce Noss energy drinks. I'm sure. I think they still make those.

You ever seen those?

[00:17:31] Mike: Yeah, I get a little tender. Yeah. . Yeah,

[00:17:35] Caleb: they pack a punch. So yeah, like I, I, you know, it was just like, that's just the way I was, man, like energy drinks just to get me going, you know, keep that drive high and, um, you know, I was so, I was down there like, you know, expecting him to come and help me and he was up there like afraid and, uh, didn't want to come down there.

And so I was even more pissed and like, you know, going faster than I needed to. So I'm rolling out the ice and water shield, pulling the plastic and balling it up as I go. And I'm going really fast. And, uh, a little bit of that, uh, plastic just kind of. Got outta control and I stepped on it and instantly just slipped.

And because I was right at the edge of the roof, I hit the deck and fell off. And it just, it happened so fast, you know? So, I mean, there I am on the ground, you know, looking up at the dude that was up there watching me work that I'm pissed off at, you know, And I'm like, luckily I landed on grass, like lawn or whatever.

There was like a divot this deep from my elbow. And uh, it just so happened I was wearing, I always wore my hammer on the back and I had the, the hammer loop or whatever. So I think that's the reason why I broke the, the bones in my lower back. And, um, my shoulder hurt worse than anything I thought. I thought my shoulder was dislocated.

So I was telling the dude, I'm like, Can you just like check up my shoulder blade, see if it's sticking out, Like just maybe pull my arm or something. And he is like, Dude, he's like, no. It's like, I'm not, I'm not touching you. Your shoulder blade's not sticking out. You need to go to the hospital. Right. So, I mean, right then and there, everything that's going through my head is like, Man, I might be done roofing.

Like, I don't even know what I'm gonna do anymore. I've spent the last seven years, it's the longest I've done anything in my life. Right. You know, working in this industry six or seven years. Right. It was right around there. Um, yeah, I mean, I was worried about, you know, providing for my family and, and all that kind of stuff.

I knew that there wasn't any work comp. I knew it was shady. We were getting paid under the table. There was a lot of, there was a lot of questions. I mean, there's a, there's a whole lot of things that go through somebody's head when you know that there's no real security. You're working an hourly job, working for some guy who doesn't have his shit together and he's not paying you very much money anyways.

So, yeah,

[00:19:54] Mike: that had to be

[00:19:55] Caleb: incredibly unnerving. So it took me, it took me like a month just to be able to raise my arm like this. Right. So I didn't even know. I didn't even know if I'd ever even be able to roof again. I, they, I could have potentially have gone back and had surgery, but the fact that I didn't have health insurance and there was no work comp, I never did.

So, I mean, yeah, to this day I still feel it. Well, so what was the

[00:20:20] Mike: diagnosis on the shoulder? Was it broken?

[00:20:23] Caleb: My shoulder was, um, it was just like torn muscles and, and uh, potentially some ligaments that, but they didn't do like a real, they did like a scan or whatever, but quick in and out cause they didn't have insurance.

Well, I spent the night in the hospital. I mean all in all, I think all the medical expenses was right around $3,500 back then. So it wasn't crazy. I just knew that I couldn't afford to go back to the hospital Right. Or, or the clinic to get some additional work done. So I just basically dealt with it, you know, I wore a sling around for, for about a, a month or two.

And That's tough. Yeah. So

[00:21:00] Mike: after the rehab, You're back into it, able to get somewhat close to full range of motion.

[00:21:08] Caleb: Yeah, no, I'm good now. I mean, uh, like I said, I still play sports. I'm still very active. Yeah. Go hunting a lot. I mean, I just deal with the pain, you know. Sure. Go to the chiropractor quite regularly.

I get massages all the time, so. Gotcha.

[00:21:23] Mike: So, yeah. Sorry I digress there, but I felt like that definitely warranted having, uh, a quick conversation and, and elaborating a bit. So you're still running as the PM of the company, and this is year what, at this moment that you're, you're the kind of the project manager?

[00:21:42] Caleb: First year I only, yeah. I only did it for like one year. Okay. Basically at that company, I'd never done anything like that before.

[00:21:50] Mike: Yeah. And then you're asked to kind of move into sales. You've got your authentic self out selling people during this wicked storm with tons of competitors fleeing. To the scene from outta town out outside of your

[00:22:03] Caleb: state.

Right. Yeah. I think I should say too that, you know, in the, the business that I had before with my partners, just, just to be clear, we only did subcontracting and a majority of it was new construction. Okay. So there was major new construction, boom. Um, there, there was almost no sales that we did on our own.

Uh, we had taken on a few jobs that were just kind of given to us, but there was no sales involved. And because I had two other partners, I wasn't even the person that like did that interaction or did that selling. So I still had no, no knowledge of any of that. It was just me. It was always just show up, um, you know, recruiting, training, shingling, tear off, all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, that makes sense. Awesome. I was a, I, I was like, there, there was three partners and um, I think it was like a 40, 30, 30 split, so. Okay. Gotcha. I was, I was on a 30 end of it. Yeah. , I

[00:23:01] Mike: was on the third. Got it. So in, in this new position that, you know, PM involved in the sales, now you're wearing both hats.

How long did that

[00:23:10] Caleb: last? Um, it lasted until the, the following year. Um, there, there was some, uh, changes that the, the owner wanted to make through some roofing business in a box thing that he did. And, um, he was looking at what their recommendation was to pay me. And, uh, so then my pay would've been dramatically less by like, I think it was around $10,000 in that year than the previous year.

Geez. And, uh, but just wasn't gonna sit well with me. Um, I had actually, uh, sold a job on my own for like an HOA for $585,000. And, um, Even with the, the $8,000 bonus that I was getting for that job in that following year, because that's when we produced it. Yeah. I was still making $10,000 less than I did the previous year.

And so the just didn't sit well with me. And, um, uh, I was also having, uh, relationship issues and, uh, man, I mean, things went sideways fast. So, um, there was, uh, some big issues between me and the owner. He was also actively trying to sell his business and he was taking me along with all these meetings and stuff like that.

And, uh, you know, everybody in the community thought I was co-owner of the business and I, and I wasn't. And so, um, I felt very disrespected in many ways that I was never even an option to bring me to the table as ownership as much as I had done to build this company. And, uh, it left a really bad taste in my mouth.

And so, um, Between my own personal actions that were taken, um, in the kind of dark hole I was going down and, uh, and my disagreeances with the owner, um, I quit and he fired me about at the same time, literally, like, I couldn't, I couldn't say I quit fast enough. He said I was fired. And I was like, Oh, if you want to pay me unemployment, we can leave the firing thing, you know, stick or whatever.

[00:25:23] Mike: Interesting. So, yeah. So, so officially, did you quit or did he, did he pull back on the firing thing so he didn't have to pay you unemployment just for inquiring Mines,

[00:25:34] Caleb: Um, officially we left on the fact that he fired me and when it came time to, uh, get unemployment, I was denied. And then I appealed and I still got, I still, it was denied.

So, geez, I've never received a penny of unemployment in my life. , which is fine. I, I, I work for everything that I, that I, you know, that I get. So,

[00:25:57] Mike: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know. And at that time, did you have a, a contingency plan in place? You have, was it still two kids at the time? Yep. So you got two kids? Yep.

[00:26:11] Caleb: longer you No contingency plan. Yeah, I, you know, um, uh, I, I had to take some time off. That was my only contingency, is trying to assess, uh, you know, what I was gonna do next, where I was gonna go see if I was gonna stay in the industry or not. And, um, I actually went a different direction together, kind of, uh, was still in construction, but a friend of mine had gone on to, um, work in the tower industry.

So he was working for a company that was. Towers. Um, some of them were the guide wire towers that went straight up and other ones were self supporters for the state of Minnesota. We also did a bunch of other like antenna and like, uh, cellular site installs and pretty much did everything. So did that for a while.

Um, it was going really, really good. I became crew lead within about eight months. Um, I got to have my own crew to build a, my, like my own site for, uh, 3,330 foot self-supporting tower for the state of Minnesota. Um, uh, it was a really cool industry to be in. I was in the best shape of my life. Um, at this point I was, uh, 29.

This was in 2009, so, um, didn't fit it for a year and a half and ended up getting fired again. So , um, yeah. It was a, it was a toxic industry as far as the people that worked in it. And you traveled a lot. And, um, uh, the, the guys, uh, the other guys in the company that saw me kind of like get to that point so fast, didn't agree with it.

And there was a lot of back talking behind my back about, you know, whether or not I should be getting paid, what I'm getting paid, and whether or not I should be getting my own, um, sites for the, you know, for building those towers. They were all prevailing wage, you know, and I'd been on several crews building several of those towers because I was, uh, a favorite at the time amongst all the crew leads, so, Sure.

Um, but whatever, they disagreed with it. And, you know, uh, something happened on a site, um, that my, uh, crew up on the tower didn't secure some stuff properly. Some of the equipment fell, damaged the fence. Um, they also, they also said that I was at a bar when I wasn't. Um, cuz I, we used company vehicles, so ultimately I got.

I said, Well, whatever your loss. Um, then I had to reassess again. Uh, took some time off. Um, and then, uh, I started a different business, um, with a partner. Um, funny story as it may be with the same guy that was on the roof that was watching me fall off the roof. I ended up starting a business with him, plot twist several years.

So, yeah. Yeah. But he was, you know, he was a good roofer actually. You know, he ended up being a really good roofer. He had some of his own demons, but, um, uh, you know, we, we figured, I was like, whatever, man. I got somebody, I got one guy that wants to roof with me. I think I can start a business with this. Um, but I was like, this time, um, you know, I'm gonna become a licensed general contractor and I'm gonna do marketing and sales, and I'm gonna do all of our own work.

And, um, Uh, I'm gonna try to work out a way to do less subcontracting and I'm gonna do branding and all this stuff. And that was the, that was the plan at the time. Um, struggled with that for about five years. Ended up, um, uh, separating from that partnership within about a year in, I think we got through one season and then that guy's demons caught up with him again.

And, um, we had to separate, um, go our separate paths. And, um, eventually there was too many issues with that business name I was operating under with him trying to still operate under it. And, you know, he, there was a customer of his that alleged, we stole a cell phone from him and I was like, Man, I don't even know what you're talking about.

So eventually I had to change that business name. And then, uh, right about that time period, um, my, my current business partner had approached me and I knew him from playing softball. Uh, it's something I've been doing since, uh, I was like 17 years old. . And, um, he was a salesman for another company and he was having some conflicts with working with them, and the work wasn't steady and he was looking for somebody else that he could go do sales for.

So, um, ultimately he was like, he's like, Well, look, you need a new business name. And I was like, Yep. He's like, Well, if you get a new business name and uh, um, you know, we start to figure this out. He's like, I'd love to come sell for you. And, uh, that's when Over Gring started in 2017. We were talking about it in 2016, January 1st, 2017 over Gring and Remodeling was a brand new business.

And we had a, I had a whole new vision for everything that was gonna happen from that day forward. Man, that's

[00:31:20] Mike: awesome. That's, uh, you took the scenic route, like, you know, that and that , it builds character folks, right? Like, I think it's important to know, like, No matter how great of ideas we have and the way that things are gonna play out in our minds, like there's always that underlying potential that shit will get burnt to the ground, right?

Like things will happen, life will happen, will throw curve balls at you, and you're gonna feel really shitty about those things. But it's really important to, to be able to persevere, to be able to cope and to be able to keep pushing. Um, you know, a lot of boxing coach, let's say, like bite down on your mouth guard and keep moving forward, like as those blows are getting thrown at you and pick your spot, fire back, right?

Um, and I mean, that's exactly what you did, right? And I applaud for that cause that's, Yeah. I wanted to

[00:32:10] Caleb: learn, right? Wanted to learn from everything. I've always been cognizant of like learning from any mistakes that I made and other people's mistakes are actually more valuable to me than learning from my own.

So started to pick up that kind of trait right? To like see what other people were messing up . Sure. So I'd make less mistakes on my own.

[00:32:30] Mike: Yeah, no, it's, that's really important cuz I mean, it's great to, to know what to do, but it's also important to know what not to do. So, life lessons with Caleb here. have the mission control podcast.

Love it. So, alright, so now Caleb over starts overgrowing with, with your business partner now business partner. Was he business partner at

[00:32:50] Caleb: the time now business partner? Uh, he was a 10 99 salesman for me at the time. Mm, love it. So he, uh, I took him on as a partner in, uh, 2020. So,

[00:33:03] Mike: So what was the, what was the, I guess the swing boat to finally say, You know what, I'm not gonna do what my old boss did to where I resented him because I had done so much for the company.

What was his contribution that made it make sense to say, You know what? I want you to be a part of this thing for the long haul. I want you to be fast

[00:33:19] Caleb: as the bottom of.

It was, uh, a lot of things with having him to be fully invested in. What I wanted to do was to let him know that I was going to, uh, I was gonna go full on in with a marketing plan to make sure that he didn't have to go out knocking doors every day. Um, I knew that something that we had to do at the beginning because literally we were starting brand new, and so he was totally on board with that.

He's like, Dude, I'll go knock doors. He's like, My goal is just to keep you and your crew booked out the whole summer. And so he had that, you know, ingrained in him. He's like, I can't let Caleb down. I gotta make sure these guys are busy. I gotta make sure we're selling roofs. And, uh, you know, he was a cradle to the grave roofer, right?

Like he did the, the sales, uh, ordering the materials, um, communicating with the homeowners. Um, I think even pulling permits and ordering dumpsters, and I got to show. And roof the jobs, um, schedule my crews, pay the payroll, um, pay Chad, you know, his commissions, and, uh, keep all the finance together. I was doing all the marketing stuff to try and like infuse some, some of that and like brand building and, and um, you know, man, I worked a lot of, uh, 14 hour days just trying to figure out, you know, how, how to put this whole thing together, you know, the right way.

You know, And a lot of that too was just making sure everybody was paid every Friday. It was a luxury I had almost never had in this industry, was making sure I had a good paycheck every Friday. So I was always the last one to get paid, man. But that's, that's just the way it is. Yeah, that

[00:34:57] Mike: makes a lot of sense.

So you mean you weren't an overnight success, like the haters will say, uh, ? No.

[00:35:04] Caleb: No, man. Our first year of sales we did, um, we actually did like $330,000 in sales. So, um, I thought that was huge. You know, that was all

[00:35:15] Mike: our own. So you said that your partner's name's Chad. Yep. Where would, without having Chad in the early stages and now especially, where do you think over roofing would be?

Do you think you'd be anywhere close

[00:35:30] Caleb: to where you are today? No, man. Uh, the first thing absolutely. That, that was the first best thing for me as somebody that was in the trades trying to figure out like, um, how to, how to like, make this thing grow right from the start was to have a dedicated salesperson.

Yeah. You know? And, um, the second person I hired in the following year was another salesperson. Mm. So, um, the only other person after that was a production manager. So, you

[00:36:01] Mike: know. Yeah. I mean, that's really good insight, especially, you know, for, at the time a young business owner. Right. I, I think it's really important to understand your limitations, and I don't mean that from the place of you can't sell.

There is a million other things that have to be done within that business. Any business, especially roofing, right? And especially if you're dealing with claims like in Minnesota, um, there's so much that has to be done within that backend administrative follow up to where, I mean, one person, you just can't do it all right?

You'll be, you'll be dusting the burnout and no time. Uh, so I think it's really important, you know, for anyone out there who's in the midst of that dog fighter is going to be starting a business, uh, especially within roofing in the near future, be mindful of that. Be, be very mindful as far as what your capacity is, what you will and won't be able to do, and what you want to delegate in finding the right people to delegate to.

It's easy for me to sit here in a, in a room with Caleb and talk about how, you know, he did it and he, it sounds a lot easier than it's going to be. You're gonna break some eggs and make that omelet as I like to say. Um, but those are, are really important, fundamental aspects of running as success. So job well

[00:37:15] Caleb: done that, That's awesome.

That is huge. No lie, man. I, I, I do still enjoy, or I did enjoy sales for, for a long time. I just knew it wasn't my strong suit. Um, I had like one semi-formal sales training ever and it was like this, it was part of that roof in a box thing that, that the previous company I worked for did, there was this million dollar, um, million dollar sales training or something like that.

We flew somewhere and did like a two day class. But yeah, I don't know. I'm not a, I'm not a salesman man. I'm just, I'm just me. Right. Um, and I knew roofing that, that's all. So, um, I'm new. That's not something I was passionate about. I was passionate about the, the roof being done properly, the homeowner having a good experience and being notified, um, to make sure that we were putting on a good quality product.

Right. Um, and, and just to kind of like how that thing grows, right? Like building a brand and a company. , um, meant so much to me at this point in my life. I, I wanted to get it right, Like no matter what, I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna mess it up. This time, I, I put my name on the company and I, and I, I wrapped my trucks, you know, and I was like, this is it.

This is happening. Like, I love that shit. There's no going that,

[00:38:33] Mike: So like, let's talk about that, man. So you're all in, you have that, um, you've got your name attached to it. So like, you know, maybe that fueled you a little bit more to be like, this thing cannot fail, right? Because now it's my name, plaster all over, it's my reputation.

Um, maybe that made a difference, maybe it didn't. But now over over roofing is everywhere. What you talk about the brand, right? You talk about building a brand and you wanting that to happen. So what was your path to making over roofing what it is? It,

[00:39:06] Caleb: um, the path, So it started out a little wonky, right?

Like, uh, Home Advisor and, um, Angie's List and, uh, Thumbtack were, were out there. Um, I think like, uh, Yellow Book was doing some stuff. I tried a few things. Um, all of them were absolute trash, uh, was mostly just spinning my wheels. But the, the good thing is, is I spent a majority of that, uh, doing those things in the, the previous, um, company that I had tried starting up.

Um, you know, and I was getting leads, but I was having to like go to the leads in the evening or get to them before somebody else, and being a roofer. And there was a lot of things like I was roofing every day and trying to, um, you know, still be on my phone to capture those leads that were coming through.

And they were still so, so garbage. Um, the people I was even competing with were worse than, than my small company, right? They were like, true chuck, and the trucks like just terrible. So I didn't know how to be a, I didn't know how to differentiate myself at the. Um, nor did I have the funds to do so. So, um, you know, when, when starting over Roofing, uh, the first year was, um, trying to figure out Google and, uh, and Facebook.

So I, I spent a lot of time just trying to figure out those things and see, you know, um, what was working and what wasn't. And so I took those things on by myself. I, I don't know, I love like the technology and the, you know, getting in there and just getting my hands dirty and like trying to figure it out on my own.

Yeah. Um, and, and I felt like it could have lended to my experience going forward just to be able to know, like what to look for if I were to hire somebody in the future to do it. So, of course, um, started doing those things. It was actually working, um, by the time we got to 2018, I had gone to, um, uh, I had gone to the radio station, um, to talk to them about doing some radio advertising and, um, you know, still, it sounded really expensive.

And, um, I figured I was gonna try it anyways. I couldn't go all in like I had heard, but, um, and I, I don't know why, like the, the radio station was the next thing. I, I just figured like, look, there's no other roofing companies in my market actually doing it. Um, and, and I think when they do do it, it's very, very short lived and they're just trying to say some kind of message, um, or, or do some kind of a special, but I don't think that they were doing it very well.

They didn't have a jingle. They didn't, um, it wasn't like a constant, you know, like all year long or whatever, or all season long for Minnesota. And so I just looked at it as a space that, um, that I could like get into. And I did hear something from somebody that said, like, you know, if you're gonna do something in as far as marketing goes, um, or if you're gonna do marketing, like do one thing really well and like own that thing before you go on and try and like, do.

So, um, I can't remember the book. I think it's called The One Thing or whatever, where they talk about, um, you know, not doing, like, not trying to be really good at everything but like really doing one thing really well. So that was radio for me and, um, after like dabbling with it a little bit in my first year, uh, I did see some upticks on the day that I was doing it in my, in my, um, uh, Google Analytics, cuz um, what I did do is I sent all the traffic to my website.

So, um, and, and I, I found a really good partner for a website. So, um, the website that I got, they, the company that built it focused on roofing companies. And so I felt like partnering with somebody that spoke my language, um, really, really, really benefited to actually building a quality website that was going to, um, benefit me as a roofing contractor.

So, uh, we had a forum on the. I sent everybody to my website. That form captured all those leads and I sent all those leads to my sales team. So now we had like, uh, we started to get a funnel right? Um, and once I found out that the marriage between those two things, like the radio and the website was, was so kick ass, I started seeing the, the Google organic search go up.

Um, so much so that overt roofing has since we started doing radio, been our most, um, most search and found or whatever, um, keyword than anything ever is over or over roofing. That's brand maybe, huh? Yeah. So like our organic is crazy , um, just because of the radio, right? So, um, in between those seasons, then I got invited from the radio place that I was advertising with to go to this, um, conference.

It was called. Brands formation. And there was a, a speaker that, um, was speaking that actually wrote a book. And, um, it was all about like building a brand and like telling a story in building a brand. And when I was at that, um, is where I came up with the, the phrase that we still use to this day is your friend in the roofing business.

So I don't know if you've ever heard of any other companies or businesses in general using that, but I kind of heard it before, so I had to ask if I could use that. And I got the all clear, all good. And so, um, what I, what I tried to do in telling that story was that we're not a typical roofing contractor that you need to be afraid to hire to come and do your job.

You know, we are your friend in the roofing business because we're gonna do it. We say what we're gonna do. And we're gonna give you the product that we say we're going to, and we're gonna do good work. We're, we're not gonna, um, you know, we're not gonna do any shady stuff. Right. It was like trying to build that storyline of like, Look, you can trust us.

Sure. There's too many, there's too many, uh, bad companies out there, and there still was, you know, at that time that really just needed to get weeded out. That would steal people's money. They, they wouldn't pull permits, they wouldn't do good installs. We were constantly getting, you know, repair calls from other companies and in the, the terrible work that they did.

And so that's, that's really like the story and the branding that I wanted to build is like, we're your friend in the roofing business, Let's go.

[00:45:44] Mike: Yeah. That's amazing. I'm really glad that, you know, we didn't meet back then because I would've told you, you're too, you're crazy for, for investing all your money into radio.

and I mean, I guess you would've known what would've happened had you done it, but that definitely would, It would've, over roofing would've taken a different path. So I, I'm glad that we got to be what we did and that you were wildly successful. And, you know, it's, it's super intriguing to me because that's not, if you put a post out and you, or you talk to 500 roofing companies and you that have done radio and you talk about their experience, I think the overwhelming majority will say they've had an unfavorable experience.

Now you had hit on a couple different things that I think are really important. You mentioned a jingle and you mentioned consistency. Mm-hmm. . So especially with branding efforts, consistency and having the right expectation for yourself when you're investing in it is really important because far too often do people, and this is goes to as far as any business, they invest in something that's branding related, not acquisition driven.

Right. Where the end goal is to build your brand. But they pay for it for a couple months and they begin to get, they get real finicky if it's not working right away. That's not how branding works, right. , like you said, right? You're trying to build that trust and that authority in your market. And they, you might, the same person might hear you 19 times, 37 times before they decide to call you because they may not have, not have a need rate then and there, and that's fine.

Um, but when you're, you're cultivating the, the growth of your brand and the authority that it has as it's perceived by your target market, it takes time and you can't abandon it early. You have to stick with it. Caleb, can you sing your jingle for us? Would you do it? We sing singer. You jingle.

[00:47:34] Caleb: You got a friend in the roofing business at Oberg Roofing and Remodeling.

Oberg.

[00:47:42] Mike: Bam. There you have it folks. Dude. So

[00:47:45] Caleb: where did you come up with a jingle? I, I hired a company to. And, um, we went through a process of trying to figure out, um, something that I would actually enjoy listening to over a long journey of time. So they're like, What kind of music do you listen to? Um, um, you know, like, what do you want to, what do you want to be in the, what do you want to have in the jingle?

Like, what do you want to say? Right. And so, uh, you know, I like, uh, I like rock and roll and, um, I like, uh, I like Old Rock, New Rock, kind of Southern rock, all that kind of stuff. So they're like, How about Leonard Skynyrd and Kid Rock Mix? And I was like, That sounds awesome. Like, so that's what it is, you know?

And, uh, because of, uh, what it is, like it can play on any station. Like, um, I think the, the second radio station that we started branding on, like that we went full on with the schedule with was a country radio. . Nice. And there's, there's a, there's a science to that too with like the, the right station with the right clientele that you're trying to market to.

Um, if anybody's looking to get into it, I would tell you straight up, like, go straight to country, man. Those people are great customers. Um, they're, they're great people and, and they got money. So, um, they don't spend it all on beer and trucks. I guarantee it.

[00:49:10] Mike: you make a really good point, and I think one that's, that's worth shining a light on a little bit more, not only just in the context of radio, but you have to understand based on where you are placing your efforts from, whether it's marketing, advertising, branding, acquisition, you have to understand like being contextually relevant based on who's in that space that you're advertising to.

So the people that are on Instagram aren't the same people that are on Facebook aren't the same people on TikTok. Aren't the same people on radio. So having your brand messaging aligned contextually with who's on the other end of those airwaves or that smartphone or whatever it is that they're gonna be accessing your brand messaging with, is really, really important and can make a huge difference as far as the outcome of your advertising or brand outfits.

[00:49:58] Caleb: Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, like everything was going so crazy e even back in like 20 18, 20 19, right? Like my, my still thought process was at one point like, do I need a website? Like everybody's on social media, But I'm like, Well, it's not everybody or whatever. So then, you know, it's like, well, we should probably get a website.

And then, and then it was like thinking about radio going, Well, I mean, like I stream, uh, I do Pandora, like I don't listen to the radio all the time. You know how many people are actually listening to the radio these days? And I was like, you know what? , like, no lie, there's like, a lot of people still listen to the radio.

Like, especially, you know, like think about fleet vehicles. Uh, those people don't have Bluetooth, right? So they're, they're having to listen to the radio all the time. Those are working class people. Those are my customers, right? Mm-hmm. . So like, there was so many things that I checked the boxes and I was like, this actually I think is really going to work.

And I mean, not gonna lie, the, the radio advertising doesn't cost as much at St. Cloud as it does in like the St. Paul, Minneapolis area, right? Yeah. So, um, it's, it's still is affordable and I mean, I know that like, um, you can get a, a roof sold for like way more than you can down in the St. Paul, Minneapolis area than you can in the St.

Cloud area. But I, I'm not even sure like, um, that it would even be affordable to do or as affordable in the early time as I was in my business to do the radio advertising.

[00:51:24] Mike: So is St. Cloud part of my ignorance? is St. Cloud a little bit more rural?

[00:51:30] Caleb: Um, well, the ST. Cloud is a, is a collection of cities. It's right around like six or seven cities.

They're all clumped together. Okay. Um, collectively, I think that the population, the inner city population within that area is probably right around 300,000 people. Okay. Um, and then, and then a lot of rural, you know, in, uh, towns that, um, spread out from there Right around like, uh, 10, 15, 20, 30 miles away.

There's a lot of, um, smaller towns around the ST. Cloud area, so. Gotcha. Um, not a, not a huge market, but, um, I mean, radio is still a big deal. There's, and I'll, Here's the example. I am currently on, uh, eight radio stations that broadcast in the St. Cloud area out of probably about 20 or more. 24. Okay. Mm-hmm.

So even in this smaller market, there's still like a lot of radio stations. So there's a lot of listeners. The only RA reason those radio stations stay in business is for people that actually advertise with them. We pay all their bills. Yeah. Otherwise they don't have a business.

[00:52:37] Mike: Sure. So I would, and this is strictly a hypothesis, there's no fact based reasoning associated with this, but my hypothesis would be the closer you are within like a metropolitan or city setting, the less likely people would be to tune into radio.

Um, and do you think I'd be way off base in saying that? Totally.

[00:53:02] Caleb: Oh, let me hear it. . It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Like, I don't know, maybe I haven't looked at like every market across the United States and how it is, but there's radio stations are not going out of business. Okay. Um, you can do the research on that alone.

Radio stations are not going outta business. Uh, and, and it's because radio is not dead. It, it is a really good place to advertise your business. Okay. And one of the best ways to do it is literally is being consistent and, uh, providing a good message and having a jingle to have that, that audio tone that gets stuck in people's head.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people tell me that they cannot get our jingle out of their head. It's Yes. Stuck. Yeah, it's stuck. People tell me that they think I'm on the radio every day of the week, all the time. , and I'm old. I'm not joking, man. They're like, You're on every day. And I'm like, No, I'm not.

I'm not. I'm on .

[00:54:09] Mike: Yeah. We didn't do that package. I could, I could assure you where that,

[00:54:12] Caleb: Yeah. Yeah, I'm on eight stations, uh, three days of the week, the same days, uh, of the week on every single radio station. The same, uh, uh, amount of times, uh, every single day on every single radio station. So the consistency is, is down.

So there's, um, two days out of the, out of the week, the weekday that I don't even do any radio advertising on, and I don't do it on the weekends either. Why?

Because the other day's work. I don't know why. Like, why, why try and go outside of something that I know already works so well? Um, you know, and I think on the weekends, um, is when people spend a lot of time together with their families and they don't have that commute time or that time to themselves to even like be that cognizant of like the radio ads that are on.

Sure. Right. So, um, you know, if they're traveling, you know, they might have, their kids might have tablets on, or they're listening to kids' music, or they're staring at the, the passengers staring at their phone anyways and they're doing the social media, or maybe they're listening to a podcast or whatever.

And then, you know, maybe mission control

[00:55:25] Mike: podcast. Yeah. , they're

[00:55:29] Caleb: not, and maybe, maybe mom or dad is, is listening to, uh, you know, their Pandora or they're listening to a, a a a game. You know, whether it's, um, football, college football or basketball. There's a lot of sports that are being played on the weekends, whether it's college or, or, uh, professional.

Sure. So it just, it just takes away from more of the opportunities for, for listeners, I think, on the weekend. So,

[00:55:52] Mike: So as far as the, and that's a really good point, I think, um, I think those are really good intuitions they have, and they make a lot of sense. as far as the weekdays, did you, have you always deployed on the same three days?

On the same three times? Have you kind of tested out different time slots to, to understand what difference this has made? Have you ab tested, were you doing radio before the jingle and after? These are all the things that su that get me super excited.

[00:56:20] Caleb: Yeah, absolutely. , uh, year one, no jingle. We did, um, we tested a few different days of the week just to see, uh, you know, the, the traction.

Um, mostly it had to do with, uh, tracking it on our Google and our website leads cuz there's no other way to track radio. So I knew that the only way I could do it, uh, well there's two ways, right? So like, you can offer up a phone number that you can have tracked. That's specifically for radio, right? But I'm like, well, who's gonna sit there?

write down a number, right? Or, or you have to have like a, a such a catchy phone number that like, people will never forget it, right? But that takes time to build that kind of, um, thing. And I wanted results immediately. So I knew that if I sent people to my website, that my website was good enough, I was gonna be able to capture those leads.

So it was a marriage between the two. I'm like, I have a kick ass fricking website, man. I'm telling you. I was like, this thing is legit. I got everybody in my market beat, hands down. Um, and this was like in my first year of business, I already have the best website. And, um, by year two, my seo, uh, was ranked number one out of all my competition in the market.

Page one, everything just dominating. So, uh, I, I paired the two together, right? I don't think it could have done it without one or the other. Sure. So, Tried a few different days. Um, and then also was trying to, um, you know, listen to the people at the radio station and see kind of what worked. And, um, uh, you know, ultimately, like, I don't know if it was from some of the research that I did or just kind of like paying attention, but like, I came to them in, in year two and I was like, I want to do, uh, a consistent, uh, branding on one radio station.

And I wanted to be, um, three different days of the week. And I picked the days and I told them, you know, um, and they were like, We were actually gonna pitch you that exact same thing. And I was like, Cool, let's do it. So right from the start, they were thank thanking me for being prepared and like knowing what I wanted and all that stuff.

And I was like, This is cool. I like these people. . Yeah. So, so yeah, I mean, one, one station turned into, uh, you know, into three. And then, um, you know, now like I said, we've, we've done 10 radio stations at a time before. Um, and then, uh, Just through like some of the, the deals or whatever. Um, we're down to eight, so, um, probably look to expand.

I mean, we're hitting the major ones. We've got like two different country ones. We got a, a Christian radio station, we got a light station, we got a, a news station, we got a sports station, we got a rock station. Um, um, I mean we're, we're, we're hitting all the spectrums, right? Sure. Alright.

[00:59:09] Mike: Now are you doing just spots, are you doing endorsements by the, by like the personality or the dj?

What is the approach? Yeah,

[00:59:18] Caleb: good question. Yep. So we, we have done some deals with, um, some of the DJs. Um, one of the cool programs and, and I mean you gotta talk to the, you know, the radio companies that might be in your market. Um, the one that we work with, they give their, um, their employees a. For, uh, basically buying our services through this thing called Marketplace.

So we kind of do like a trade deal. Nice. So I went into that knowing that I was gonna spend a certain amount anyways, and I, so we started doing the marketplace thing. So now we've had probably, um, over the years we've had about 16 customers for, that were employees of the radio station. Oh. And so a few of them were, uh, we're DJs and so we did like some separate things where, um, they would be like, we did some really fun stuff.

I'm not gonna lie, I like to have fun with the, the radio advertising. Yeah. So we would make it like enjoyable, you know, where I'd have kids, you know, or teenagers that would come up to me and tell me like, Dude, your radio stations are so much fun. Are you, radio advertisers are so much fun to listen to.

Like, you guys are having so much fun in there. Like, oh my gosh. Like, it's just like when I'm not listening to the radio, like, I enjoy your commercials. And I was just like, boom, let's go. Yeah. You know, let's make it fun. So yeah, I mean, we did that, right? We, we worked with those, uh, DJs and we did their projects.

Like we did a, we do remodeling too. So one of them, um, it was actually, uh, a couple that are on, um, the same radio station that have two different shows they're married. Um, we finished their basement for them. Um, they did some social media stuff on their side too to kinda like help with the boosting, obviously like, um, was like a side deal.

And, uh, costed a little bit more money, but it totally worked. Um, it completely kicked off and this was the time when we were starting to really like grow our remodeling side and it completely freaking exploded, man. Wow. That's, I haven't even done any remodeling advertising since I did that. Really? I don't do it on Google.

I don't do it. Yeah. But now it's just referrals and I don't know, just having the, the. Uh, conversation with the, our customers that we already do roofing and siding services for. Yeah. They're like, Yeah, you guys do remodeling too, right? And they're like, Yep, Uhhuh . Yeah. What can you guys do? It's like, um, well we, we do everything, you know, like, we'll, we'll finish a basement, we'll do a bathroom, we'll do a kitchen We'll, you know, whatever.

[01:01:45] Mike: So do you ever fear that, like in being in offering all those services you had mentioned before, how kind of alluded to you don't want to be, it was in a different context. You don't want to be the jack of all trades, master of none. Right. Um, like if you want to do something, lock in on it, become really, really good at it and focus on that and then kind of move out.

Do you ever fear that like your branding becomes diluted if you're offering all these different services to

[01:02:13] Caleb: the community? Nope. Nope. We, we, um, uh, we started in roofing and, um, I developed such a seamless. Process for estimating and selling and, uh, producing all of those, all of the roofing that we do. Um, we have one guy, a production coordinator that manages a hundred percent of our roofing and does it with absolute ease.

Um, we've got a really good, uh, um, basically a relationship with our subcontractors that we use. We've had, um, strong relationships with them for years and, uh, so we don't really have to do too much searching on that aspect. Um, so we really nailed it on the roofing side. Created like the best systems, processes, you know, everything for sales all the way through.

Right. Um, that it's actually so easy. Um, if I was only doing roofing and uh, um, I only wanted to do like, you know, maybe a few million a year in like one market, yeah, I could go, if could go live on an island somewhere and manage my company for your laptop, .

[01:03:21] Mike: So I'm assuming, again, I don't like being bored.

Sure. Um, and listen, I go crazy when I'm bored, so I'm always, uh, getting distracted by something. That's why Podcasting's great for me. I love it. Thank you for coming today. Uh, . Yeah, no, I appreciate it. This is awesome. So you didn't wake up in 2017 when you launched over grouping remodeling and say, Okay, like, we've got these bulletproof process for, for everything.

Right. So like, let's talk about, and I think this will be really helpful to a lot of people. Let's talk about like what, what, what were some of the pain points? What was the, from, from growing your company and as things began to, um, come to fruition and kind of morph into what you are. , what were different components that were really integral and really, really important as part of that?

And whether it be bringing out help from the outside, Is it watching YouTube? Is it following certain people? Feel free to give shameless plugs. Um, because ultimately we just want to help the viewers who and what played a pivotal role in that growth as far as your systems and

[01:04:30] Caleb: processes. Yeah, man, it's, uh, that's actually huge.

I, um, I spent a lot of time on YouTube and just, uh, trying to follow other, uh, people in the industry. Um, it was a really good time to start a roofing company and, uh, you know, and, and still do like retail and insurance work. Um, Dimitri, uh, had, was giving out so much free information on YouTube. Um, I think it was right around 2018.

I think maybe I found Dimitri 2018 or 2019. . Mm-hmm. , um, really just started, you know, following him. I had never like, uh, uh, got any of his products or any of his help, cuz I think that he gave so much information for free on YouTube. Um, and he, he was really a person watching him. I was like, you know, there's a lot of these things that I, I can do, like really easily, like creating videos, Um, yeah, just kind of like doing stuff, right?

Like, you know, uh, there, there was a lot, right? And then all of the other people that he worked with too, so like, uh, I saw him, I started seeing Adam Sand come around here and there and I think Adam Sand spoke at like, his conference and um, you know, so like I had, uh, I think it was just before Covid, um, I had the want and need to, to meet Adam Sand.

I think it was, uh, sbg. I ended up going out there. I knew he was gonna be out there. He was starting to do something. Um, with somebody that didn't end up working anyways, but I knew he was gonna be there at a booth, so, Sure. Uh, I had, I, I had a, I had a goal, like my, my only goal was to go out there and meet Adam Sand.

Nice. So, went out there and, uh, totally, I kept stalking his booth. He was never there. And so, like, , I was like, Where is this guy, man? You know? And like, I went over there one time and there was like, you know, like three, four people standing around him. So, um, uh, like I couldn't ever get to talk to him.

Finally, um, I just like sat there and hung out and waited for him to come by. And, uh, I went right up to him and introduced myself and I'm like, I'm like, Dude, I've been following you. And like, I, like, I really enjoy like, just kind of like listening to you, like talk about, you know, what you're doing and stuff.

Cause he was doing a lot of the video, um, uh, kind of like the video process, right? Where like you would, you would create a, a video up on the roof. to uh, show the customer, you know, something they had never seen before, which is the, the roof that they had. Yeah. And, and identify things that maybe the previous roofer had done wrong or just talk about the ways that you're gonna do it.

Right. Yeah. And then like get that video in front of the customer, like send it to them, you know, link somehow. I didn't understand all that, but you know, I was like, somehow he is doing it. I don't know if it's an iPhone thing. He was always on an iPhone. Yeah. This sounds really good. . Yeah. And then he also did like the ground plan video and, you know, he did a lot of video stuff and I was like, this, this I think is something I can use, you know, with my sales department to really kind of like be a differentiator and kind of like open up, you know, who we are and like be more, uh, personable and allow for the barriers, the walls to come down with the customer a little bit easier.

Cause now like you're being the, the fearful person behind the camera that a lot of people are afraid to do, and. Giving them this information of their actual roof and like showing them what it looks like and talking to them about how you're gonna make it right or whatever. Right. There was so many things like just showing hail damage, even when there's hail, like going around saying, Look, this is the hail you have on your roof, and it's all over.

Right. Rather than somebody from the ground, like back then, man, I mean, I'm telling you, um, a lot of times you'd get these door knockers that come around and be like, Yo, you got hail up on your roof. And the the, the customers are like, What do you mean? Were you on my roof? Like, you have a drone? Like, what are you doing?

They're like, No, you got hail on your roof. I can see it. You can't, you can't see help from the ground, man. Yeah. Um, anyways, like that was kind of the, you know, like thing. I'm like, okay, so, um, talk to Adam Sand and, um, I, I hired him to come out here and work with my, uh, sales team to teach 'em the videos and like get 'em over the hump.

Um, me alone telling 'em that they had to do it or they should do it wasn't enough. But the fact that I hired somebody to come out there and teach 'em how to do it, um, further edified the fact that like, this is the thing that you guys are gonna want to do to further your career as a salesperson in my company and in a salesman in general in the roofing industry.

So, um, having that consultant and paying somebody to come out here and do it like concrete, the fact that like, Caleb knows, like it's already, this was 2019, like Caleb's already building this amazing company. Uh, we should, we should trust him and like just break down the barriers to like do the new thing.

Uh, one of my guys started doing it, dude, and just freaking crushed it with the videos. He was, he was having the people that he sent the link to for the video shared so many times that he was getting referrals. On top of referrals. On top of referrals, on top of referrals. So much so that I couldn't even send the guy a lead anymore because he already built the pipeline.

I'm not kidding you, man. That's awesome. Built his own, he built his own pipeline following this process that is so massive. Um, he started doing this in 2019 and 2020 during Covid. Um, it grew so much so that in 2020 here, like we've barely given him any leads and he's got, um, he's got well over 3 million in sales of his own pipeline.

Geez. Yeah, it's amazing. So then, go ahead. So then with Adam Sand, he was here and, um, he didn't have anything to do for a little while, so he hung out a little bit longer and I was getting to know him, which is pretty cool. He told me that he, he loves doing CRMs and I was using a CRM at the time. Um, and I, you know, like I wanted to talk about it because the problem with the CRM I had, not necessarily the CRM itself, but my.

Is that I kind of pushed this on them and I told them, you know, like, you gotta start doing this, uh, filling these properties, you know, I need to know what's going on in my business. All this stuff. Cause prior to that, man, I'm telling you, we ran our company off of Dropbox and, and fricking QuickBooks. Okay.

Dropbox and QuickBooks . Yeah. So that was our crf then it was, uh, a different one. Um, didn't get good adoption. Adam Sand was telling me that he does, uh, CRMs, you know, um, it's something he really loves to do. And I was like, You do. I'm like, You've never said anything about it. Like, are you, are you seriously good at this?

Or is this like something you're just messing with me, You don't want to get some extra money or something, Right? I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know. He's like, No man. He's like, I built one for this company out in Hawaii. You know, they're doing like, um, they're doing like, uh, 10 or 15 million in sales with, with this one that I built, you know?

And I was like, legit. I'm like, That sounds legit. Yeah. He started telling me about HubSpot and how he was working on trying to like start doing that. And I was like, Well dude, if you're, if we're gonna do this, like you gotta get me the new best thing. And so he, we ended up being his first HubSpot build out customer for a crm.

Mm-hmm. . Um, and now he's actually here in my office doing a, a second rollout, an update, um, Ray Town. Yeah.

[01:12:17] Mike: Huh? Yeah, he's up. Adam . He's over there

[01:12:21] Caleb: somewhere. That's funny. Yeah. Uh, so Adam's back, um, he's actually leaving today. He's heading out, uh, he's on a long trip again to go to a whole bunch of other states and talk to a whole bunch of other people and help a bunch of, whole bunch of other roofing contractors with all their needs.

Um, Cool. Yeah. If anybody needs a kick ass custom built crm, like, you know, you guys gotta call Adam Sam. ,

[01:12:45] Mike: you heard it here first, folks. It's, it is really interesting. You had, you had brought up a point of like bringing in an external party. In this case it was Adam, but in a lot of other cases it won't be Adam for a lot of other people, but just the legitimacy that really that affirmation from an external person will bring in mobilizing your team to actually do what it is that you've been asking them to do.

Like that power of affirmation. Um, it's funny cuz like I'm a parent as well and I don't know if, you know, in having, you know, four kids, you've ever had a situation where like you've been asking your child to do something at home all the time and you get pushback, you get push back, you get push. And then like, you know, you go to a parent teacher conference and they're like, Yeah, you know, she does that all the time here.

And I was like, Yeah, we never happened to ask her twice for anything. I was like,

[01:13:36] Caleb: Huh. Yeah man. Teach me your nos. . Yeah. Literally teachers tell me that, uh, my kids are amazing. They're like the best, you know, Everybody loves 'em, all this stuff. I'm like, man, they drive me nuts at home.

[01:13:54] Mike: Yeah. So I couldn't agree more that, you know, it's not always a situation where you're bringing somebody in because you just don't know. Um, like you had said, like the adoption of these processes, procedures, softwares, and the fact that you can get a team to actually use them the way that they're intended to be used is paramount to the success of whatever it is that you're implementing.

It's garbage in, garbage out. I mean, you could have. Adam, you, you know, if you brought an Adam to build you outta crm, if you brought, you purchased any CRM of any kind, if you don't have your team actually on board and utilizing it, it's not Adam's fault. It's not this person's fault, It's not job Nimbus's fault that it doesn't, you know, your company's not thriving because of it.

You have to make sure that your team's getting on board and if you bring external people in to help guide them and show them the way and affirm the messaging that you've had, you've got a much better likelihood of doing that.

[01:14:52] Caleb: Um, yeah, absolutely, man. You know, and I've always taken, um, when I, when I bring in a consultant or I hire somebody, um, the thing that I always look at is, you know, what are their intentions and, and to help my business, you know, how does that work for me?

Cuz like, I am very firm in the way that I want to conduct business and, and, uh, how I think it should be done. So when I look at these consultants, I look at like, are they gonna help build my my vision or are they gonna bring in their own and try and like, change everything? Cause a lot of, a lot of companies out there, they, they have their whole program in a box, right?

So like, you pay for them, they come out, they tell you how it is. And if you're not prepared for that, you're gonna waste a crap load of money. Um, I hear of a lot of companies out there that are bringing in like all the different sales gurus they might have, like, they might have had like four or five, six of them come through their office.

You gotta pick one and you got like, you gotta do the one that works with your market and your business to just change a few things. Like take, have your takeaways right. Figure out how that consultant's gonna help build your vision. Okay. If your vision needs some work, talk to them about what the experience they have with other roofing companies maybe.

Yeah. Um, You know, Adam Sand is great cause he's been to a lot of roofing companies. He's, he's got a really good idea of, of what he's doing. Yeah. Um, we, we definitely collaborated quite a bit on building out our systems and processes. Um, he brings a lot of experience to the table with that. He's got a really good team behind him as well.

And most people don't know that he, I think he employs, um, I think it's right around like eight people right now, just in his, uh, roofing business partner. So he, he's got a solid team behind him and it's growing. Yeah.

[01:16:46] Mike: That's awesome. That's, uh, Yeah.

[01:16:50] Caleb: I'm sorry. Go ahead. Always with a consultant man. Like, find, find somebody that's gonna help build your vision, right.

Somebody you can work on to build your vision.

[01:17:00] Mike: You mentioned something in there that I think, uh, is, is very, very important and it's like the, the collaboration I've found over the years. That the quickest way that somebody can run into issues with something being productive or it being a complete failure, is there's an expectation.

If I pay person A for this, I can get put it on their plate, have nothing to do with it, and you know, it should be done for me. It's one of, you know, and that's the end of it. And that that usually is not going to be the case, right? Whether you're talking about build, especially building a crm, if you're talking about, obviously I do marketing advertising.

If you're talking about marketing and advertising, like there's typically, there should be some sort of expectation that you should have a hand in it. Nobody's gonna care about your business more than you are going to. And I think the more people that understand that, the better off that there will be trust but verify, right?

Like when you're hiring somebody to do something and they're telling you these things, verify that they're the case, right? Um, And like one more thing that you had mentioned as far as like where you got your education or like, I guess the confidence in some education from, as far as like online resources, YouTube, Right?

That's how you found Meri. That's how you found Adam. Sam was exposure through these free, um, platforms use good information that people are giving out for free. Like whether you're talking about manufacturers or you're talking about like roofing insights or sales and marketing. There are so many resources that are available for free if you look for them and you put the time in, you have to put the time in, but most people won't.

Right. So, you know, you know, like for my, for my YouTube channel, I base my content. Of questions that I've been asked consistently over the years, Questions that still come up from my clients every day. So my assumption is, okay, so if I've got seven people asking me about this in the last 30 days, there's probably, you know, 7,000 other people that want to know the same thing.

And then I'll publish it and it'll be like 12 views. And I'm like, . I'm like, Why, why do only 12 people wanna watch my content? Um, and, and there's some algorithmic things as like the YouTube channels relatively new and, and we're working on that and the content velocity, how frequently we deploying the content.

But, you know, there's a lot to be learned from a lot of great people that put a lot of time into those types of resources and you could benefit immensely from them. And, uh, I think that's really underutilized. It's, it's, it's hard, right? Because there's so much shit that we're getting pulled in every different direction and it's just information overload.

So I think you have to be really intentional as far as. How much time and where you're gonna spend that time. If you're looking towards free

[01:19:53] Caleb: resources, I feel like you have to take the information in, um, even if it's from somebody you don't know, but they have a different perspective and a different idea, or maybe it's some, some way that they do it in their market.

And then you have to like put all of those things together with what you know, you might think is, uh, necessary for your market and try to like build a formula or a perspective, a whole perspective around the concept or the idea. So like a lot of times we're always, we're always looking to make sure like we're doing what's best for our customers, what's best for our sales reps, what's best for our employees, all that kind of stuff.

To, to, to like have a good business. Right? Yeah. And constantly, I'm trying to build perspective and grow like. There's so many different things that we've had to do in this company in the last six years, five and a half years to change different things that we were doing. But as long as you're not doing it to the detriment of your team or the detriment of your customers, you're, you're more than likely gonna come out on top.

Change is absolutely necessary. Um, I, I, years ago, man, like, uh, I got into philosophy and all that kind of stuff and I learned about this guy hair colitis and he, not in his own words, but, you know, over the years, cuz he was like 400 bc um, they, they, I think his original words were as no man ever steps twice, twice in the same river.

So what that came down to is that change is the only constant. Somebody years later coined that or said that's what he was basically saying. And I got that shit tattooed on my fucking arm because change is the only constant. If you're not changing, you're freaking dying and you're, you're gonna be gone.

Nobody will remember you, you're not leaving a legacy. You're doing nothing for your employees. You're doing nothing for your own future. You have to keep up with what's going on. You have to, I mean, you should be continuing to grow to benefit your employees. Give them an opportunity to like achieve something more than just staying as a, uh, you know, an installer, right.

To, to just staying as a salesperson. Maybe they want to be a sales manager someday. Like you, you gotta create those opportunities to leave a legacy for not only you, but even for your employees. Like they want to, they want to leave a mark too. Yeah. A lot of people don't think about that man, but like my employees, like, they wanna leave a mark in this industry too.

They want to do what's right and they want to do it. They want to do it in the best way possible. So we, I mean, we, we adopt that culture, man. It's, it's the way we are here. People are used to it. Plus I got a lot of energy and a lot of ideas. So yeah. Get on board. Let's go.

[01:22:47] Mike: Well, I mean, dude, I, I, I couldn't agree more with the changes.

The only thing that's constant, right? It's, and sometimes it's, you know, very inconsequential change. Sometimes it's drastic change and, you know, you'll benefit from, you know, it's, it can be challenging, right? I think let's not oversimplify like determining what you should change and when. So like, be mindful of your business and like you said, the context, be situationally aware, but you do have to lean into change, right?

Because you can't, like, if you don't, it could cost you dearly and it's your job as a leader of a company and the leader of a workforce, and you're responsible for those people and their families and things like that, to, to keep the, especially the financial health of the company in mind and make decisions that are going to better the company and those involved with it.

Uh, so that's awesome. I, I said not too long ago, and maybe this was coined before that, I didn't find that anymore when I did a Google search. But, uh, you know, Money of tracks, talent and culture retains it. You know, I've found, you know, Yeah, I know a lot of people I know past shop that I've had where I, you know, they've done very well.

I've done very well financially, and it's like, I, I can't stay on my life. I don't care how much you pay me, I'm out. Right? So you had touched on culture. So what, what have you done that has created that culture that people wanna be a part of? Their, they're legacy oriented, right? They're thinking of these things.

Not a lot of people think of the, of legacy, right? And all in all, they're just super happy being a part of over over roofing because they believe in what you do and they believe in the values that you stand for.

[01:24:29] Caleb: Right on. So, um, Uh, as of about this time last year, I actually only had right around, I think it was like 12 employees.

Um, in the year before that I had two. So, um, this is, this is all really new and like even the, the, the concept of like culture and everything is like very on point for me because, um, uh, it's something I wanted to do, but I didn't know if it was necessary, you know, two years ago. Right. Two employees. What are any core values for Right?

Sure. Subcontract majority of our work. Um, but a lot of things has happened in the growth since then. And currently today, having 45 employees and knowing that with, uh, the growth that we had last year, that we were gonna be hiring a bunch of more people and growing the company. I took the initiative to start, um, with 401k with.

Health and, uh, dental and vision and um, uh, supplementary like, uh, Aflac Insurance. So we, we offer all of these things just to give people in this industry the ability to know that they have health insurance to ability to know that they're gonna have, uh, 401k, that they can retire at some, um, hopefully earlier than, than the projected, you know, 65, 67 years old, whatever it is.

I think it changes 67 now. Um, the, the ability to know that like if any incidental thing happens, that they're gonna get some, you know, incidentals, they'll be able to provide insurance for their family, their kids, everybody, right? Like I'd never even had a 401K until I started my own. I never had health insurance other than one that my wife provided for me previously from her employer.

It's just not something that's ever been prevalent in this industry. And it's something that I knew that if I wanted to hire, recruit, retain, um, and then do what's best for my employees, is that's the stuff I had to establish. So I did that first. That's something we started, uh, January. I think it was either end of December or or January.

Right away we had the 401K and the health, um, set up. And then, um, as the year progressed this year, we got our, uh, dental vision and uh, um, Aflac set up for everybody. So, um, that's been amazing. Everybody loves it. It's not even that difficult to do. Um, I mean, we do have like HR requirements and a lot of other stuff now.

Sure. So there's, there's a lot more to unpack there. Uhhuh, , but, um, it's kind of boring stuff a little bit. So the other stuff that, um, that we do like, okay, so, uh, David Carroll put out a post. I mean, he puts out a bunch of random stuff, right? And, um, So he said something about, Hey, have you guys ever thought about core values?

And I'm like, Yeah, man. Actually I've thought about it for a few years, is what I was thinking in my head, right? And I'm like, you know, I think I said something like, Yeah, I need to get core values. And then, um, Jessica Stahl from Ignite Results says like something like, Hey, I got you, you know, sending me a DM or something like that.

And I'm like, Oh, wow, cool. Let's get some core values, you know? Yeah. Um, in talking to Jessica, she's like, she's like, Well, let's talk about your business and your people. And, uh, she's like, core values is definitely something I do, but she's like, I do a whole lot more. And she's like, I'd really like if you got the time or the want to talk about your business.

Um, she's like, you know, let's see if, uh, see if there's anything else out there for you. So we went through the whole thing, man. Um, worked with her and Melina to get, uh, the core values established, and now we're, um, gonna be rolling them out like quarter by quarter. So we don't just throw everything, it just ba puke on everybody.

Here's the core values. And then, you know, none of it sticks kind of. . So what the core values does is it, it allows for all of the other culture building to just naturally happen. It brings, and if you do 'em, right, right? Like it includes everybody in the business to be like a family, a team, uh, people that are watching out, for other people watching out for the customer experience.

Um, just like everything. Um, they're, they're very, they're very close and personal to me in, um, you know, my own kind of moral compass and all that kind of stuff. So, um, they just, I just love 'em. I think anybody that, you know, has like the want and need to do core values in a culture, don't waste any more time, man.

If you got, if you got 10 employees, like just start doing it right now, you're gonna attract more people and the right kind of people. Um, we've had, you know, just this year in some of the employees that we've hired, we've had them actually. bring in their spouses or significant others or other family members to come work here because they enjoy it so much because of, uh, the way we, the way we operate and the way just kind of like the team and the people are, um, the culture here is, is freaking awesome, man.

Yeah, that's dope. All the people that I have here at OB Gring, I mean, shout out to everybody that might be watching, uh, you know, at ob gring. Love you guys. You guys are awesome.

[01:29:41] Mike: Mm. Yeah, I think that's, that's really good. And it's not just something you put on your wall, right? Like these are our core values, right?

You have to, you have to embody those, right? You have to, you have to have your finger on the pulses of the, of the company and the climate within it to make sure that individuals are really, I guess, living their life through those core values. Would you agree with that statement to some degree.

[01:30:07] Caleb: Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, here's the thing, man, like everybody knows that you spend a majority of your time and your days at work with the people that you work with, like you to have a culture and a team, a family, however you want to say it at work, means more than a paycheck. Okay? Like if you don't, if you don't enjoy your time at work and you don't enjoy your employees or whatever, uh, if there's no culture, if there's no, you know, growth, you know, minded company there where people, you know, might be able to move to the next level, you know, if people are constantly wondering, like, you know, oh, you know, I went to school for, um, you know, finance, but they're, you know, the owner's doing all the bookkeeping or whatever, right?

Um, if, if you're not allowing for that opportunity for them to want to move into something else, you are not providing enough for them and they're going to leave, okay? They're gonna leave. You're gonna come work for me,

[01:31:11] Mike: Let's go. That's awesome. Yeah. I think, uh, that's it. That's it makes perfect sense. And I can't tell you how many people I've had throughout the years are like, Oh, I lost this person. I lost this person. I lost this person. Why? You know, they, they got a better off for somewhere else. If you have somebody that makes a reasonable wage, they could, I would argue they could even be underpaid as, as it relates to your market, but they're happy with the people that they work with, right?

They look forward to coming in on Monday and maybe talking for 10 minutes after the morning meeting about their fantasy football team with, you know, three of the guys that they work with or whatever the case may be. Right? They just enjoy that atmosphere. They are so much more likely to stay. They're not gonna leave for a dollar an hour somewhere else.

Right. That relationship becomes more sticky because that's hard to find. Right. It's not, It is hard to find somebody that's willing to pay you a little bit more for your experience. Right. The, like those offers are, are ubiquitous in most instances, but to find a place that you're confident is going to actually provide a work environment, like they say on that job description when they're on Indeed, or whatever the case may be, I feel like most people doubt the likelihood of a, of an employer being able to deliver that experience.

So they know that they've got that in this company, in this instance over at Roofing. So like why would they ever want to leave? Right. Not to mention, you know, you're just, you're taking a ladle and just pouring out the value with health insurance and you're doing matching contributions. Like, I feel like that's not something that's typical in the industry, right.

How, Let me ask you this. Do you feel like your experience, especially what you, what you experienced in earlier on in your career with the accident and falling off the roof, do you feel like that created a sense of urgency for you when you started your own as far as like coveting that as an, as a

[01:33:11] Caleb: priority?

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, there, there's, there's a, there's a few aspects that come into play there. Mm-hmm. . Um, so when I look at, you know, I think I said that there, we have, uh, couples that work here. Yeah. You know, some of 'em work out in the field, some of 'em work in the office and, you know, I look at like young couples that, um, they both really love it here and they are potentially gonna have their own family.

If I can't provide benefits for them, uh, one or both of them are gonna leave. And I don't want my people to leave. Like, I, I get invested in, in them. Not, not just money wise, but in time and training and. , uh, you know, I really enjoy the people that I work with, that if I was not to put those things into place and lose somebody like that would suck.

Like, that's my fault. I screwed up. I should have done something else. I should have put those things there. I didn't, I never wanna look back and say I should have done that thing. Right. It's like, that's one of the, the things that kind of haunts me, right? I never wanna look back and say, I should've, should've coulda, would've.

My dad used to gimme crap about that when I was a kid, you know, getting on you about doing chores or something like that, and he'd throwing out an excuse and you'd say, should'a, coulda would've. Yeah. It's stuck in my head, man. Yeah,

[01:34:35] Mike: Love it. So what has that done in your recruitment efforts? I know that you said you brought in a couple, like, um, a couple partners in as a result of, you know, them experiencing firsthand, but what about people that don't know the company? Right. ,

[01:34:53] Caleb: How is that helps? Yeah, so it, it helps, it helps a lot. Um, one of the biggest things that we get, um, when interviewing people is they look at a growing company and an opportunity to help build and grow with a growing company.

One of the biggest, biggest things that we hear, everybody that we are, uh, hiring, you know, interviewing everything, they're like, I just want to get on the train. Like, you guys are just, you guys are flying, you know, whatever on the airplane, not a train. You guys are flying. You guys are soaring, you know, on a, on a ride.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's, I mean, that's been one thing that's been the resounding biggest thing for recruiting and hiring good people. Um, the benefits is that icing on the cake, man, they can feel secure. knowing that they're going to work for a company that cares about their employees and not just about the growth.

Okay? Mm-hmm. , if you do those things to build that foundation, it's not all about me as the ceo, the owner, um, and, and my paycheck or the, the company and all of the things that we're trying to do to grow. It's the things that we do for our people. It's the things that we do for our, our customers. It's the things that we do that, that allows this thing to be the foundation and the strong rocket ship that it is, man, just taking off and not looking back.

[01:36:21] Mike: Yeah. No, there's no doubt about it. And like culture's just so important. I can't, I could say it's something blue in the face, like part of our interview process is I ask the, the candidate to pull out a pen and paper, or I'll provide 'em with a pen and paper if they're in person, and it's like, All right, rank these things, right?

Money, work life balance, upward mobility. Customer experience right now, Assign there's, there's four things now provide sign of value as far as priority of importance. And it's tough, right? , like you're sitting on the other end of that. Like, that's really challenging. Um, but I wanna see where people are at, like, where is their mind at?

Is this somebody who's gonna say, you know, I'm culture oriented. And, and they're just, they just want it for the money, right? They want the position for the money. Cause like, I don't know, there's a lot of people that can fill that seat that would just want the money and I don't feel like they're gonna be vested as, as the next person potentially.

Right? Like, I want somebody who's gonna become enthralled into that culture are gonna become interwoven to where it's like a family, right? And I think those things are really important. Dude, you're killing it. Great job, man. . Is there anything else you wanna leave the audience with before we get up outta here?

[01:37:34] Caleb: Um, I mean, with any business, um, you gotta know your people. You gotta know your market and you gotta, you gotta know, um, you know what every, like a little bit of what everybody else is doing to create a perspective, to help build the vision, to put everything together. Yeah. So if you can keep those things, you know, in place, I think like, just about anybody could find a right formula in any market to, to make it happen.

So that's about it, man.

[01:38:09] Mike: There you go. So be aware. Take bits and pieces. Bake your own cake with it, Right? Maybe tweak a little something a little bit here, add a little bit of that, um, you know, but you don't always have to reinvent the wheel. Dude, that's really good advice. Uh, very appreciative for you spending your time with us today, Caleb.

And uh, I had a blast, man. I hope you did too.

[01:38:29] Caleb: Man, I loved it. Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely.

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Mission Control Podcast

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