What does it take to make more environmentally sustainable software? Carl and Richard talk to Tom Herkhove about Microsoft's efforts to make carbon footprint and emissions visible for applications. Tom talks about the Azure API Management interface as a great starting point, and the ability to shift workloads to low-emission data centers as needed. The conversation also digs into wasted cycles, like automatically fired CI/CD pipelines whose results are never reviewed. It all begins with measuring - what action you take from there is up to you!