Mormon History Podcast – Gospel Tangents – Mormon History Podcast

Joseph Fielding Smith, a towering figure in the 20th-century Latter-day Saint landscape, is often remembered as a theologian and Church leader. But his long tenure as Church Historian also positioned him as a key interpreter of Mormon history, an area where his approach offers a fascinating case study in the relationship between faith, perspective, and the writing of the past. Our recent discussion drawing from the sources explored this complex legacy, highlighting Smith’s contributions alongside critical insights into the nature of historical objectivity and bias.

When Joseph Fielding Smith became Church Historian, he faced the significant challenge of organizing sprawling, uncatalogued collections. He initiated processes that professionalized the church archives, particularly after World War II, by creating finding aids, dividing materials into collections, making lists, and microfilming documents.

However, from the perspective of a professional academic historian, Smith’s method of engaging with historical sources differed markedly. He treated certain documents, like the Bible and those produced by figures he considered revelators such as Joseph Smith Jr. and Joseph F. Smith, as entirely reliable and didn’t subject them to critical interrogation. This lack of “suspicion of sources”—the practice of asking who wrote a document, when, and what biases they might have—is highlighted as a key distinction between Smith and professional academics. His influential book, Essentials in Church History, exemplifies this approach, treating “official LDS sources” uncritically, yet it became a foundational text shaping LDS understanding of their history for decades.

This brings us to a core concept in academic historical study: the non-existence of “objective history.” Writing academic history itself is considered a bias. The aim for professional historians is not to eliminate bias, which is seen as impossible, but rather to be acutely aware of bias—both in the sources they use and in their own perspectives—and to account for it in their work. This requires adhering to methods and principles developed over generations of scholarship. Mature scholarship involves being frank about one’s own point of view and how it might influence interpretations. Trying to pretend one is objective is seen as a mistake. Richard Bushman is presented as an example of a scholar who openly discusses his background and how it might shape his work.

The sources also reveal how bias can influence not just conclusions, but the very questions a historian thinks to ask—or doesn’t ask. While “motivated reasoning” (steering sources to a predetermined conclusion) exists, it might be less common than bias manifesting in the kinds of questions that arise from a historian’s background and positionality. The discussion used the example of Richard and Pamela Price’s hypothesis regarding the influence of Cochranites on the Quorum of the Twelve and the practice of polygamy. While the Prices found evidence of contact between the groups, they reportedly don’t account for the significant chronological gap between this contact and the public announcement of polygamy. This failure to ask about or explain this gap is suggested as stemming from their predisposition to believe the Quorum of the Twelve were the originators of polygamy.

Joseph Fielding Smith was a prolific writer. Beyond Essentials in Church History, other notable works include The Way to Perfection, a narrative history of humanity from pre-existence to afterlife, where he explicitly stated his views on race. He also authored Man His Origin and Destiny (1954), which he considered his most important book, responding to higher criticism of the Bible and the theory of evolution. Perhaps his most widely read work during his lifetime was his “My Question” column in the Improvement Era church magazine, where he answered diverse questions with authority, reaching a vast monthly audience. After his death, these columns and other writings were compiled into influential reference works like Answers to Gospel Questions and Doctrines of Salvation.

Smith is considered the most influential LDS theologian of the 20th century. While Bruce R. McConkie was also highly influential, he is seen as primarily a popularizer and systematizer of Smith’s ideas, possessing an encyclopedic mind focused on organization compared to Smith’s narrative bent. McConkie turned Smith’s writings into topical reference collections. Smith’s influence also extended to being a prominent defender and exponent of the church’s racial restrictions, articulating the theory that people of African descent were less righteous in the pre-existence in The Way to Perfection.

In conclusion, Joseph Fielding Smith’s legacy is multifaceted. He contributed to the professionalization of church archives while simultaneously employing a historical method rooted in faith rather than academic skepticism. His voluminous writings and interpretations profoundly shaped 20th-century Mormon thought and doctrine, including controversial areas like the church’s racial restrictions. His work continues to underscore critical questions about how personal beliefs, institutional roles, and inherent biases interact in the construction and understanding of history.

Do you agree with Matt that Joseph Fielding Smith is the most important LDS theologian of the 20th century? Who is the most influential in the 21st century so far? Will the Church move away from JFS’s defensive posture on science, especially evolution?

Don’t miss our other conversations about this book! https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/joseph-fielding-smith/

Joseph Fielding Smith: evolution was not something he thought highly of. The son of Joseph F. Smith and grandson of Hyrum Smith, was a prominent figure in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As an apostle from 1910 and later Church President, he became known for his strong defense of traditional doctrines, often clashing with those who sought to reconcile faith with modern scientific and academic thought.

Don’t miss our other conversations about this book! https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/joseph-fielding-smith/

One of the most famous conflicts involved the theory of evolution and the age of the Earth. Smith staunchly opposed the idea of an old earth, particularly the notion of human-like creatures or pre-Adamites living before Adam and Eve. His core objection wasn’t simply to evolution itself, but to the idea that there could have been death before the Fall of Adam and Eve. Smith believed that death entered the world because of the Fall, and if death existed before then, it would undermine the necessity and efficacy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. This principle of no death before the Fall was central to his arguments.

This perspective led to direct clashes with contemporaries like James E. Talmage and John A. Widtsoe, who were generally more open to scientific ideas. The most notable dispute involved B.H. Roberts’s book manuscript, The Truth, The Way, The Life, which attempted to reconcile a very old Earth and the possibility of pre-Adamites with the Genesis account. Roberts proposed that Adam and Eve were the first humans with souls, not necessarily the first biological humans. As a member of the church’s publications committee, Smith absolutely rejected Roberts’s ideas, protesting their publication to the Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency. While this conflict brewed behind the scenes, Smith publicly denounced the idea of an old Earth and pre-Adamites in a speech. In response, Talmage gave a talk endorsing the possibility of an older Earth, highlighting some public disagreement among church leaders. Ultimately, the First Presidency chose not to endorse either side and requested both men cease public conflict on the issue, preventing Roberts’s book from being published at that time. Smith, however, outlived many of his contemporaries and later published his own book, Man His Origin and Destiny, which strongly attacked Darwinism and the higher criticism of the Bible.

Smith’s career as a defender of traditional beliefs was significantly shaped by his upbringing and early experiences. His father, Joseph F. Smith, was called to testify before Congress during the Reed Smoot hearings. During these hearings, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (RLDS), led by descendants of Joseph Smith Jr., saw an opportunity. Richard Evans, an RLDS apostle, issued broadsides accusing the LDS Church of corruption, denouncing Brigham Young for originating polygamy and blood atonement, and claiming the RLDS Church was the true successor to Joseph Smith. This became a “family feud.” Joseph F. Smith was infuriated and asked his son, Joseph Fielding Smith, to refute Richard Evans.

This charge launched Joseph Fielding Smith into a career of research and writing, focusing on apologetics – the defense of religious beliefs. He published pamphlets refuting Evans, arguing that polygamy originated with Joseph Smith Jr., not Brigham Young. This pamphlet feud led to exchanges in newspaper op-ed pages and solidified Smith’s path. He began working in the Church Historian’s office during this time and soon became Church Historian, serving for decades until he became Church President in 1970.

His long tenure as Church Historian meant he had significant influence. Unlike contemporaries like Talmage, Widtsoe, Joseph Merrill, Adam Bennion, and B.H. Roberts who sought to engage with the rising world of professional academia and show Mormonism as respectable by their standards, Smith viewed professional academics with suspicion. He saw many as hostile to faith, pointing to academic works that explained religious experiences through non-religious lenses, such as a biography suggesting Joseph Smith Jr. was epileptic. Smith believed these scholars were “out to destroy religion” and therefore he saw no need to build bridges with them.

A significant controversy involving his time as Church Historian concerns the 1832 account of Joseph Smith’s First Vision. This early account was contained in a diary under Joseph Fielding Smith’s custody. At some point, three pages containing this account were removed from the diary. While it is unclear who exactly removed the pages, Smith is considered a plausible candidate because the document was in his custody, specifically in his office safe. However, other people also had access to the archives. Smith did later show the 1832 account to a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy. The removed leaves were eventually restored by archivists in the 1990s. Smith was ultimately blamed for the incident, as allowing such treatment of a “priceless document” was considered quite scandalous regardless of who performed the action.

Joseph Fielding Smith’s legacy is complex, marked by his unwavering dedication to defending the faith as he understood it against perceived threats from both inside and outside the church.

Is the Church changing with regards to academics & evolution? Do you agree that the defensiveness of JFS continues to be seen in the modern Church?

Dr. Matthew Bowman has just released a new biography on Joseph Fielding Smith. Bowman is the Howard W. Hunter Chair of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University in Claremont, California. The Mormon Studies chair Bowman holds at Claremont Graduate University is the oldest in the country, having been established over 15 years ago. Bowman is the third person to hold the chair, following Richard Bushman and Patrick Mason. Patrick Mason left Claremont to take the chair at Utah State University.

Don’t miss our other episodes with Dr Matthew Bowman! https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman/

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Other Mormon studies chairs exist at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley (held by Deidre J Green), and the University of Virginia. Although not directly affiliated with Claremont, the late Jan Shipps is credited with making the study of the Mormon tradition a legitimate academic pursuit for those outside the tradition, enabling universities like Claremont without historical ties to Mormonism to establish such a chair. Before the endowed chair, Anne Taves, a professor interested in Mormonism, taught American religious history at CGU, and Armand Mauss was involved in fundraising and occasionally taught classes.

Bowman is also involved in the “Introductions to Mormon Thought” book series, which he co-edits with Joseph Spencer. Published by the University of Illinois, the series aims to stimulate the growth of Mormon intellectual history through accessible introductory volumes on important Mormon thinkers. The series broadly defines “Mormon thinkers” to include artists like CCA Christensen and Minerva Teichert, alongside more traditional intellectuals. The books are intended to be short, accessible, and explore how these individuals influenced how members of the Mormon tradition understood themselves. The series uses the term “Mormon” intentionally broadly to encompass all denominations and movements originating from Joseph Smith’s work, including fundamentalist Mormons and figures from the Community of Christ. While initially planned for 10-15 books, the series is doing well and is expected to continue. Other volumes in the series cover figures such as Eugene England (by Christine Hagund), Vardis Fisher (by Mike Austin), Sonia Johnson (by Chris Talbot), Lowell Bennion (by George Handley), Hugh Nibley (by Joseph Spencer), and Richard Bushman (by JB Haws). A future volume is planned on Eliza R. Snow (by Deidre Green), and Bowman hopes for one on Sheri Dew.

Bowman chose to write his book in the series about Joseph Fielding Smith, though his initial interest was in Bruce R. McConkie. He agreed to write about Smith instead to secure another author’s participation in the series. Bowman views Joseph Fielding Smith as Bruce R. McConkie’s intellectual parent and considers him the most significant LDS theologian of the 20th century, leaving a deeper and more persistent mark than others like James E. Talmage. While McConkie was influential, Bowman sees him more as a systematizer of his father-in-law’s ideas rather than being an original. Other significant 20th/21st-century Mormon thinkers mentioned include B.H. Roberts, Margarita Bautista, Sheri Dew, and Leverne Parmley..

A significant fact about Joseph Fielding Smith is that he was the grandson of Hyrum Smith and the son of Joseph F. Smith. Bowman emphasizes that being a “Smith” was incredibly important to Fielding Smith, shaping his sense of duty and responsibility to continue his family’s work. His memories of his father and uncle’s violent deaths and his father’s need to hide from federal marshals profoundly influenced him, fostering a sense of defensiveness and a perception that the world was hostile and persecuted the family for their beliefs. This background deeply marked his legacy and understanding of his life’s mission.

Bowman suggests that Joseph Fielding Smith contributed significantly to fostering a “circle the wagons mentality” within the church. Unlike figures such as John A. Widtsoe and B.H. Roberts, who sought dialogue with the outside world, Fielding Smith saw it as threatening and believed his job was to defend the church against those trying to destroy the truth. This defensive posture spread among his followers and readers, increasingly becoming the church’s general mentality, perhaps starting earlier than often assumed, possibly in the 1930s with his opposition to evolution. This opposition led to public disagreements, including with James E. Talmage, who endorsed the idea of an older earth.

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Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

In our final conversation with Dr Margaret Toscano, we’ll discuss the chapter in Sara Patterson’s book, “The Sept 6 & the Struggle for the Soul of Mormonism.” Margaret will discuss her and her husband Paul’s reaction to Sara’s descriptions of them in the book. Check out our conversation…

Don’t miss our other conversations about the Sept Six: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/sept-six/

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More than two decades after the events known as the “Sept 6,” Margaret Toscano offers a candid look back, reflecting on the pain of excommunication, the evolution of her personal beliefs, and how she and her husband, Paul Toscano, hope to be remembered beyond that defining moment. Margaret highlights what she feels Patterson’s book misses about her and others’ journeys since 2003.

Toscano reveals that her 2003 interview, featured in the book, captured a time of significant pain. Being kicked out of one’s church, even for someone who might not be a “Believer,” is deeply painful, particularly when it’s tied to one’s heritage and family, a sentiment she notes is also true for others like David Wright. She is proud of her ability to navigate that pain and notes the documentation of it in the book is important.

Contrary to advice she received to simply “walk away” from Mormonism to heal, Toscano felt compelled to stay engaged. She identifies as Mormon, distinguishing this from being LDS (a member of the LDS Church), and views it as her ethnicity and heritage. This identity is crucial to her, and she has continued to write, research, and discuss Mormon issues, currently working on a book about Heavenly Mother..

Over the past twenty years, Toscano’s spiritual journey has evolved. While not a “true believing Mormon,” she has reached a point where she can openly say she is a Believer on some level, a stance she felt ashamed of years ago. Her ideas of God are complex and not aligned with traditional Mormon views, but she believes in God, an afterlife, and the soul. She describes herself as a “skeptic believer,” a person who doubts everything but has also had experiences that affirm her faith. Crucially, she feels able to claim her spirituality openly, something she couldn’t do as easily two decades prior. She asserts that being a scholar and an intellectual is compatible with having faith.

A major point of reflection for Toscano is the legacy she and Paul desire. They explicitly state they do not want the September Six to be the sole definition of who they were. Margaret doesn’t want to be remembered “simply as a dissident,” nor does Paul want to be remembered simply as one of the Sept 6.

Toscano highlights that Paul’s faith journey continued significantly after 2007, when the book reportedly leaves him having lost his faith. Paul has since “found his faith again,” seeing himself as a Mormon Christian with a deep testimony of Jesus Christ, which informs his interpretation of the Book of Mormon and his extensive writing. Margaret is immensely proud of Paul’s intellectual output, which includes some fifteen books—theology, memoir, novels, essays, and more. She wishes for him to be remembered primarily as a “man of Mormon letters,” an important Mormon intellectual, and a brilliant writer.

As for herself, Toscano hopes to be remembered as an important Mormon scholar and a beloved teacher at the University of Utah, emphasizing her continued work and care for the Mormon community. She underscores the importance of remembering and being remembered, noting her critique that the book overlooks the continued contributions and experiences of many involved in the 1993 events, including her own work and relationships since 2003.

Toscano also touches on the changes she’s observed in Mormon studies and at the Sunstone conference, where she was a frequent participant for decades.. She feels Mormon studies has become polarized, with some scholars unwilling to cite excommunicated individuals like herself. Sunstone, she believes, has shifted from a strong emphasis on scholarship, which included diverse perspectives from theologians, philosophers, and social scientists, to focusing more on personal experiences. This shift, she suggests, has made it harder for active, questioning church members, who previously found a space there, to feel represented or find sessions relevant to them. She notes the current dynamic often includes Community of Christ members, fundamentalists, and “angry ex-Mormons,” with less middle ground for scholarship or differing points of view from within the church. Despite the changes, she’s glad Sunstone continues.

In reflecting on her life and work, Margaret Toscano makes clear that while the September Six was a significant event, it is only one chapter in a long and complex story of scholarship, faith, pain, resilience, and an enduring connection to her Mormon heritage

What are your thoughts on Margaret’s scholarship, Sunstone, & the September Six?

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Gospel Tangents

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In our final conversation with Dr Margaret Toscano, we’ll discuss the chapter in Sara Patterson’s book, “The Sept 6 & the Struggle for the Soul of Mormonism.” Margaret will discuss her and her husband Paul’s reaction to Sara’s descriptions of them in the book. Check out our conversation…

Don’t miss our other conversations about the Sept Six: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/sept-six/

Copyright © 2024

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

More than two decades after the events known as the “Sept 6,” Margaret Toscano offers a candid look back, reflecting on the pain of excommunication, the evolution of her personal beliefs, and how she and her husband, Paul Toscano, hope to be remembered beyond that defining moment. Margaret highlights what she feels Patterson’s book misses about her and others’ journeys since 2003.

Toscano reveals that her 2003 interview, featured in the book, captured a time of significant pain. Being kicked out of one’s church, even for someone who might not be a “Believer,” is deeply painful, particularly when it’s tied to one’s heritage and family, a sentiment she notes is also true for others like David Wright. She is proud of her ability to navigate that pain and notes the documentation of it in the book is important.

Contrary to advice she received to simply “walk away” from Mormonism to heal, Toscano felt compelled to stay engaged. She identifies as Mormon, distinguishing this from being LDS (a member of the LDS Church), and views it as her ethnicity and heritage. This identity is crucial to her, and she has continued to write, research, and discuss Mormon issues, currently working on a book about Heavenly Mother..

Over the past twenty years, Toscano’s spiritual journey has evolved. While not a “true believing Mormon,” she has reached a point where she can openly say she is a Believer on some level, a stance she felt ashamed of years ago. Her ideas of God are complex and not aligned with traditional Mormon views, but she believes in God, an afterlife, and the soul. She describes herself as a “skeptic believer,” a person who doubts everything but has also had experiences that affirm her faith. Crucially, she feels able to claim her spirituality openly, something she couldn’t do as easily two decades prior. She asserts that being a scholar and an intellectual is compatible with having faith.

A major point of reflection for Toscano is the legacy she and Paul desire. They explicitly state they do not want the September Six to be the sole definition of who they were. Margaret doesn’t want to be remembered “simply as a dissident,” nor does Paul want to be remembered simply as one of the Sept 6.

Toscano highlights that Paul’s faith journey continued significantly after 2007, when the book reportedly leaves him having lost his faith. Paul has since “found his faith again,” seeing himself as a Mormon Christian with a deep testimony of Jesus Christ, which informs his interpretation of the Book of Mormon and his extensive writing. Margaret is immensely proud of Paul’s intellectual output, which includes some fifteen books—theology, memoir, novels, essays, and more. She wishes for him to be remembered primarily as a “man of Mormon letters,” an important Mormon intellectual, and a brilliant writer.

As for herself, Toscano hopes to be remembered as an important Mormon scholar and a beloved teacher at the University of Utah, emphasizing her continued work and care for the Mormon community. She underscores the importance of remembering and being remembered, noting her critique that the book overlooks the continued contributions and experiences of many involved in the 1993 events, including her own work and relationships since 2003.

Toscano also touches on the changes she’s observed in Mormon studies and at the Sunstone conference, where she was a frequent participant for decades.. She feels Mormon studies has become polarized, with some scholars unwilling to cite excommunicated individuals like herself. Sunstone, she believes, has shifted from a strong emphasis on scholarship, which included diverse perspectives from theologians, philosophers, and social scientists, to focusing more on personal experiences. This shift, she suggests, has made it harder for active, questioning church members, who previously found a space there, to feel represented or find sessions relevant to them. She notes the current dynamic often includes Community of Christ members, fundamentalists, and “angry ex-Mormons,” with less middle ground for scholarship or differing points of view from within the church. Despite the changes, she’s glad Sunstone continues.

In reflecting on her life and work, Margaret Toscano makes clear that while the September Six was a significant event, it is only one chapter in a long and complex story of scholarship, faith, pain, resilience, and an enduring connection to her Mormon heritage

What are your thoughts on Margaret’s scholarship, Sunstone, & the September Six?

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We discuss 2 important moments in Peggy Fletcher Stack’s career: “We don’t apologize,” and “What about the women? Peggy Fletcher Stack is the senior religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune. The focus of the conversation turns to the persistent challenges within religious coverage and the dramatic evolution of the journalistic landscape itself. For Peggy, certain topics consistently emerge as central “pressure points” or “conflicts.” Drawing on Apostle Boyd K. Packer’s 1993 speech, she observes that issues surrounding feminists, gays, and intellectuals have dominated her reporting because, as she puts it, journalists cover “planes that crash,” not “planes that land on time.”

Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/

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She highlights the continued intensity of LGBTQ+ issues, noting they remain “very very hot.” Her archive reveals nearly 700 articles containing the word “gay,” underscoring its consistent prominence. While public protests on issues like ordination might have decreased since events like Kate Kelly’s excommunication, Peggy firmly states that gender issues have “absolutely not died down,” citing ongoing concerns among younger women and pushes on topics like allowing young women to pass the sacrament or women sitting on the stand.

“We Don’t Apologize” Moment

Peggy Fletcher Stack recalls a meeting with Apostles Todd Christofferson and Dallen H. Oaks around the time the church was announcing a “compromise” on LGBTQ+ issues. She asked them, in the context of trying to promote civil discourse, if the church would ever apologize for the rhetoric of some members on this topic as a way to improve civility. Elder Oaks responded directly, “No. We never apologize.” Peggy notes that this response to a specific question was later interpreted by some as being a statement of general church policy, which she clarified was not the case. She also mentions that Elder Oaks repeated a similar sentiment on a video podcast (Trib Talk no longer exists), stating that apology “isn’t in the Bible,” which caused a “huge flap” and led to people blaming her, the messenger. She said this illustrates how something said can come to be seen as policy.

The “What About the Women?” Question

Peggy describes a press conference in January or February 2018 with President Russell M. Nelson and Elder Oaks where reporters were limited to one question each. Peggy had prepared a question asking what would be done to increase diversity in leadership, specifically mentioning “women, people of color, and non-Americans.” President Nelson’s initial response was to focus on his personal connection to Peggy and her family, an “awkward moment” for her. After speaking about non-Americans, and feeling they were finishing their answer without addressing women, Peggy, despite the one-question limit, called out from her seat, “What about women?” President Nelson then spoke about loving women, highlighting his daughters and mothers. Peggy characterized this moment, which occurred on live KSL TV, as a “weird existential moment” balancing the personal and professional. Ironically, she felt it ended up being a “win-win” for her, as critics from different perspectives interpreted the interaction in ways that subtly improved her standing with them.

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Peggy Fletcher Stack highlights her biggest interviews, significant moments, and enduring themes of her three decades covering religion. Peggy’s career at the Salt Lake Tribune has intersected with pivotal historical events and figures. She covered sensitive issues like Catholic abuse and the aftermath of 9/11, immediately being assigned to interview Utah Muslims. She shared a moving story of a young Muslim boy named Osama who faced bullying after 9/11 but later reclaimed his name and faith.

Covering the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City brought another highlight: interviewing Archbishop Desmond Tutu about forgiveness, an encounter she described as a truly memorable moment despite the initial challenge of getting her story into print. She also had the unique opportunity to spend four days covering the Dalai Lama’s visit, with press access to every event.

Reporting on leadership transitions within the LDS Church also marked her career. She wrote President Ezra Taft Benson’s obituary but never interviewed him as he wasn’t publicly visible in his last years. She covered President Howard Hunter’s trip to Nauvoo, noting his warmth and the public’s desire for physical connection after Benson’s absence. The advent of President Gordon B. Hinckley brought a shift; at his first press conference, he stood the entire time and took questions, a departure from past practice. Peggy recalled her own encounter, where President Hinckley showed familiarity with her and her family before she proceeded to ask numerous questions. Notably, she covered President Hinckley’s historic 1998 trip to sub-Saharan Africa, the first time an LDS prophet had visited the region. Traveling separately from his group, she managed to secure an interview with him in Zimbabwe, where he famously commented on fighting adulation. This Africa trip stands out as a definitive highlight of her career.

Reflecting on her coverage, Peggy connected her most frequent topics to Apostle Boyd K. Packer’s 1993 speech identifying feminists, gays, and intellectuals as enemies of the church. She realized these areas – which she terms “pressure points” or “conflicts” – have been the focus of her reporting because journalists cover “planes that crash,” not “planes that land on time.” This includes covering the September Six excommunications (intellectuals)10, the ongoing evolution of women’s issues and gender dynamics (feminism), and the persistently “hot” topic of LGBTQ issues.

Peggy also recounted another one of her biggest interviews involving a memorable interaction with President Russell M. Nelson in 2018, where she asked about increasing diversity in church leadership. His initial, somewhat awkward, response focused on knowing her family. He finally answered about international leaders, but he didn’t address female leadership, leading her to press him to address the specific question about women: She asked loudly, “What about the women?” She viewed this moment, captured on live TV, as a strange intersection of the personal and professional that ironically benefited her standing with critics from different perspectives.

What are your thoughts about Peggy’s coverage of the LDS Church specifically? Do you think she is biased one way or the other? Do you listen to Mormon land and/or subscribe to the Salt Lake Tribune? What are some of the biggest interviews we didn’t mention?

Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/

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It was fun to sit down with Peggy Fletcher Stack about her time at Sunstone and Mark Hofmann. Peggy Fletcher Stack is a senior religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune with over three decades of experience. Peggy, also a co-host of the Tribune’s weekly “Mormon Land” podcast, discussed her extensive career, offering insights into her work, her background, and some of the pivotal moments she’s covered. The conversation quickly delved into the origins of her career, her time at the Sunstone organization, and even her connection to a notorious historical event.

Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/

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Peggy’s long tenure in religion reporting at the Tribune spans 34 years. Before joining the paper, she was involved with Sunstone magazine and was the originator of the Sunstone Symposium. Recounting its beginnings, Peggy explained that as young people working on the magazine, they needed material to publish. She conceived the idea of holding a symposium where people could present, providing content for the magazin. Despite skepticism from some who felt they were “just kids,” the first symposium in the late 1970s or early 1980s was successful, leading it to become an annual event that has continued for over 40 years. Peggy noted that Sunstone often struggled financially but ultimately persevered.

Peggy’s early career included a period spent freelancing in Kenya. In 1985-1986, shortly after getting married, she and her husband used their wedding money to move to Kenya to do freelance writing and photography. They chose Kenya because it was English-speaking and stable at the time. While they hoped to sell stories, Peggy admitted they didn’t sell many. She described it as more of an adventure that provided a reason to travel and learn. She recently returned to Kenya for a conference with the International Association of Religion Journalists (IARJ), a group she helped found in 2012 and now serves as executive director.

One of the most compelling parts of the early discussion was Peggy’s connection to Sunstone and Mark Hofmann bombings. Hofmann, known for forging historical documents related to Mormonism, had his “findings” discussed extensively at Sunstone. Peggy knew Mark Hofmann personally and conducted the only print interview he ever gave. Looking back at that interview, she realized he was lying throughout, something she didn’t recognize at the time. Peggy described Hofmann as socially awkward, noting he wouldn’t look her in the eye during the interview, which she initially attributed to social skill issues but now sees as a sign he was fabricating information. Remarkably, the Hofmann bombings happened on the same weekend as Peggy’s wedding, October 12, 1985. One of the victims, Steve Christensen, was a close friend, a major Sunstone donor, and a columnist. After the bombings, Peggy received calls from national media and initially suspected a business connection. However, when Mark Hofmann himself was injured in a bombing the next day, it became clear the events were tied to the documents. Peggy and her husband were warned they might be in danger, even checking their wedding presents for bombs and staying away from their apartment. This personal connection means Peggy always knows how long it’s been since the bombings by her wedding anniversary. Reflecting on that time, she acknowledged her lack of training as a journalist then and the difficulty of knowing Hofmann was lying. Even LDS Church leaders were fooled.

Peggy’s path to the Salt Lake Tribune was somewhat unexpected. After her time in Kenya, she and her husband moved to New York City, where she worked various jobs, including editing at a medical ethics think tank, working for the United Methodist Church communications department, proofreading at a law firm, and working at an Episcopal Church magazine. In the summer of 1991, while visiting Utah, Pat Bagley at the Tribune told her about a religion reporter opening. Despite living in New York, having no daily paper experience, and holding degrees in English and Sociology (with graduate study in American religious history) rather than journalism, she applied. She proposed helping launch the coverage for the summer, expecting to return to New York and help them find someone else, but the editor hired her immediately. Her first day on the job was the day after Salt Lake lost its bid for the 1998 Winter Olympics, and she was sent to cover the announcement that the Southern Baptist National Convention would come to Utah that same year. This first story, which connected the Southern Baptists’ decision to Utah’s abortion law and was placed on the front page, made her feel she might be good at the job. She initially committed to just a year but ended up staying for 34 years (so far.)

Discussing her academic background, Peggy emphasized the value of her English and Sociology degrees. While writing came easily due to her English background, writing quickly for a daily paper was a challenge. She highlighted how sociology, particularly the study of big themes, social trends, and cultural analysis from thinkers like Weber and Durkheim, helped her approach reporting. Although modern sociology often involves statistics, which she admits isn’t her strength, she appreciates how data analysis by others helps her understand and report on social dynamics. She advises aspiring journalists to study other subjects alongside journalism to gain a broader perspective.

What are your thoughts on Peggy’s career?

Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/

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Gospel Tangents

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Joseph Smith’s bank went under back in 1837. Those banknotes he printed are now worth much more money! Brent Ashworth shares his Kirtland bank notes from the Kirtland Safety Society signed by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, & Sidney Rigdon! He also shares Lorenzo Snow’s prison diary, and we’ll also play a Bing Crosby record from the 1930s on an early 1900s phonograph! Check out our conversation…

Don’t miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth

transcript to follow

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

transcript to follow

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

How did Brent Ashworth get started in collecting Mormon memorabilia? He started at age 7! We’ll discuss his first collections from the prophet Heber J Grant, his 1st edition Book of Mormon, and other documents he has related to Joseph Smith and early Church history! Check out our conversation…

Don’t miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth

transcript to follow

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

transcript to follow

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.