In this heartfelt episode, Kevin and Jennifer share their inspiring journey through their Mormon upbringing, missions, and eventual faith transition. They discuss navigating doubts, supporting their gay and transgender children, and redefining what love and family mean. From facing church pressures to embracing authenticity, their story highlights resilience, acceptance, and the power of unconditional love. Don't miss this moving conversation about finding peace and purpose beyond organized religion.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:05:25 Kevin’s story begins

00:14:20 Kevin met with general authority Paul H. Dunn to get approved for his mission

00:27:58 Jennifer’s Story begins

00:36:11 They met again with Paull Dunn about getting married in the temple

00:48:38 Defining their own gender roles in their marriage

01:01:18 Concerns with paying tithing

01:09:00 Teenage son struggling with p*rn and coming out as gay

01:17:48 Their gay son decided to serve a mission; he was told his mission will “cure him of his gayness”

01:30:00 Mission president refused to let him go home, and had possession of his passport

01:38:00 Kevin told his son “never try to make the church work for you - it never will”

01:51:55 Their gay son says that if he was not able to leave the mission he may have committed suicide

02:08:50 Their daughter tells them she is done with the church; she experienced love bombing

02:12:50 Kevin asks his mom, “If the church wasn't true would you want to know” - she says no

02:16:50 “If there is a place in the church for my gay son, we will reconsider”

02:30:40 Discussing transgender issues in the church

02:40:48 Why do a lot of ex-Mormons turn to atheism after leaving the church?

02:28:20 Has the way that they see “love” and “family” changed over the years? What do they mean for them now?

02:56:23 Final thoughts

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Lori Vallow Daybell was interviewed on NBC/Dateline Exclusive. Keith Morrison sat down with convicted murderer and Mormon mom, Lori Vallow, to talk about her case. Her two children, Tylee and J.J. were last seen in September of 2019 and she and her new husband Chad Daybell were arrested and charged for their murder. During the Dateline interview, Lori said that she and Chad Daybell were going to be exonerated because of Jesus. “I have seen things in the future that Jesus showed me when I was in heaven.” She went on to say that “Jesus is a funny guy and a wonderful person that loves everybody and especially loves her.” Lori has long been desirous to appear on Dateline and finally got her wish. She is also charged with conspiracy in the attempted murder of her niece’s ex-husband in another case.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:00:30 Lauren Mathias, Megan Conner, Gerardo and John

00:10:00 She went in surprised, she’d heard most of it, but was surprised at Lori’s anger

00:17:50 Gerardo feels the interview would have been different with someone with a cult background

00:19:25 Did the interview show us the real Lori Vallow?

00:29:50 Lori is trying to lay groundwork for blaming Tylee for JJ’s death

00:34:00 Discussing the evidence that Tylee was killed weeks before JJ

00:47:40 Lori claiming that she met Jesus

00:51:25 Polling the audience about weather Lori Vallow believes this is true

01:09:30 Where do Chad’s beliefs begin and end?

01:12:05 Lori bringing in the spare tire and the car chair

01:25:00 We didn’t see much of the 90 minute interview between Lori and Keith

01:29:55 What Keith did that Lauren did not like

01:37:00 Was JJ asleep or was he already dead?

01:39:30 How Mormons view death and how Lori did not have a lot of grief or sadness in this

01:41:50 Lori saying that Tammy loves her and she loves Tammy

01:55:20 It was clearly disturbing to see Alex and Chad unloading a pickup truck

02:05:55 Alex’s death - was it natural causes or a murder?

02:18:00 Harmful places in Visions of Glory

02:19:55 Mormon beliefs that play into this crime

02:31:00 Other individuals who killed their children because they thought their children were possessed

02:39:00 Lauren being a members of the church

02:49:45 Lori saying that she’s right and “I told you so”

03:18:30 Keith pointed out that Lori was giving parenting advice

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Dana shares her personal journey of growing up in the Mormon church, navigating mental health challenges, and eventually deconstructing her faith. From her Mormon upbringing and mission experience to questioning societal and religious expectations, Dana's story explores themes of self-discovery, the impact of religion on her life, and the search for meaning beyond traditional beliefs. After leaving the church, Dana delves into topics like mental health, fertility, relationships, and motherhood, offering a candid perspective on her path toward healing and personal growth. This channel is a space for open discussion on faith, identity, and life after Mormonism.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:05:00 Dana’s Mormon Story begins

00:17:00 What examples did she see of women in the church?

00:21:34 It was out of the ordinary to see women with careers

00:38:23 She was reported to the Bishop and her parents that she had experimented with cutting

01:06:30 Dana’s mission experience service in Atlanta, Georgia

01:12:22 She didn't love the temple experience - was “underwhelming”

01:24:24 David Archuleta was at the MTC during the same time

01:32:51 Dana knew very soon that she wanted to leave the mission early and she had to fight to go home

01:38:27 Dana Decided to go to BYU

01:56:25 Felt pressure to be married by the time she finished BYU

02:02:17 Dana to tell her parents that they could not be married in the temple and her mother told her “He’s taken everything from you”

02:18:07 Mormon therapist asked her to consider if she would be open to dating a non-Mormon

02:29:50 Dana lists the ways the church failed her - the church makes promises it can’t keep

02:41:20 Began to research severe PMS and PMDD, and learned that she suffered from it

02:47:02 Dana decided to have a baby by herself - very radical in Mormonism

03:08:00 Dana feels that she was a better foster parent as an ex-Mormon

03:14:40 Deconstructing the idea of “motherhood” in Mormonism

03:27:18 Dana focusing on her PhD

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When vlogger Ruby Franke was arrested for child abuse in August 2023, it shocked millions who had followed her family’s seemingly perfect life on YouTube. But behind the wholesome image was a much darker reality. With counselor Jodi Hildebrandt’s influence, the Franke family spiraled into a nightmare. Now, in Devil in the Family: The Fall of Ruby Franke, the Frankes’ eldest children, Shari and Chad, and Ruby’s husband, Kevin, speak out for the first time. In this episode of Mormon Stories, we react to this gripping series, unpacking the shocking revelations and what they say about family, control, and the dangers of social media.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:02:45 Curious Case of Judi Hildebrant

00:22:45 “Mormon Mommy Bloggers”

00:30:40 Kevin is also a victim of an abuser

00:48:50 Ruby thinks a happy family is an obedient family

01:10:57 Ruby’s channel was “Advancing the image of the church”

01:26:00 Pressure in Mormonism to find a partner that is acceptable by church standards

01:56:49 The Franke kids begin to shut down to the camera

02:02:26 Ruby tells Chad: “Fake being happy right now”

02:14:17 Who is the “Devil in the Family” representing?

02:30:20 “The beanbag incident” with Chad’s bed being taken away

02:40:42 Shari saying Chad got “beaten” and had to help him clean up blood off the walls

03:01:21 Kevin’s initial reaction to ConneXions - “This is a cult”

03:23:20 Lauren’s reaction to Jodi’s house: “They had Costco inside this house”

03:28:00 The LDS church could be shutting this dogma down but they don't

04:04:00 When Jodi is possessed its a feature, when the kids are possessed its a bug

04:31:10 Jodi Gave Ruby permission to be this way

04:49:40 Shari calls the police for the first time to do a wellness check on the kids

04:58:54 The younger daughter found in the closet - wasn't even able to talk

05:17:50 “Takes an exceptional lack of empathy” for a mother to do this

05:25:11 Assessment of how Kevin let this happen

05:41:30 Sometimes families like these can be more susceptible to manipulation

06:07:00 Become cult informed! Become born again to your own intrinsic knowledge

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In this long awaited interview, James Huntsman, a successful businessman and member of the Huntsman family, joins John Dehlin and fraud attorney Mark Pugsley to discuss his high-profile fraud lawsuit against the LDS Church—how he lost his LDS faith, why he pursued a fraud lawsuit to get a tithing refund, what he learned, and why he has no regrets.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:00:49 Brief overview of James Huntsman's lawsuit

00:07:27 Family background info

00:18:50 Served a mission at 18

00:22:21 Discussion of a kidnapping in their family

00:36:27 Emergence of Ensign Peak & church investments

00:49:58 Cracks start developing in James’ faith

01:03:03 What led to him deciding to file the suit

01:09:35 The downsides of him suing

01:17:00 Comparing the organized structure of his family’s business to the disorganization of the church

01:28:55 What sparked his desire to sue the church

01:37:00 “It was a very personal battle for me”

01:48:40 Statute of limitations for fraud

01:54:00 Everyone now knows how much the church has - floodgates of awareness have been opened to the churches bad financial dealings

02:07:00 James has no intention of damaging the church

02:14:15 The church today does not need members tithing

02:26:00 How did they feel after they filed?

02:44:20 Are churches protected from committing fraud

02:58:00 James feels relieved that it is all over, and they can talk about it now

03:11:29 Final thoughts & Conclusion

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For nearly two centuries, Joseph Smith’s involvement in polygamy has been a point of controversy. Historians and more recently, LDS leaders, have affirmed that the Mormon prophet took dozens of wives. But a growing movement within the Church is challenging that narrative, arguing that Smith was a monogamist—and that polygamy was a later invention used to justify the actions of Brigham Young and other church leaders.

One of the most vocal advocates of this perspective is Michelle Stone, creator of 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy, a YouTube channel with nearly 120,000 subscribers. A lifelong member of the LDS Church, Michelle once had a strong testimony of polygamy, believing it was divinely inspired. But everything changed ten years ago when her husband questioned whether polygamy was ever truly of God. Determined to prove him wrong, Michelle embarked on a deep dive into historical records—only to find herself questioning whether Joseph Smith practiced polygamy at all.

Now, she joins Mormon Stories to share her research, her faith journey, and why she believes the Church has it wrong on one of the most controversial chapters in its history.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:05:22 Why we want to have Michelle on

00:15:48 Michelle’s great-grandfather was told by the president of the church to go to Mexico to get a second wife

00:35:07 Her grandfather was called to be a mission president in Tonga, leaving behind other wives

00:48:56 She was never taught that Joseph didn’t practice polygamy

01:05:00 Things made more sense once she realized there was problems in church history

01:14:00 Trauma of losing a child at the hospital in 2020 during the pandemic

01:24:00 Had an experience where she felt that she saw her daughter grown up

01:56:48 Michelle was devastated by the Nov 2015 LGBTQ Policy

02:04:50 Discussion of polygamy in the BOM

02:14:50 Michelle had a second faith crisis in 2020

02:32:33 When did she start her YouTube channel “132 Problems”?

02:43:34 God saying in the BoM that polygamy is an abomination

02:56:01 Has she ever decided differently than what god “commanded”?

03:18:15 Discussion on RLDS church and why they split from the LDS church

03:19:41 Michelle is asking individuals to “hold a little space” for this new theory

03:31:54 Her episode on Emma changed her mind

03:49:20 “I have become more confident in my stance since I started speaking out”

04:16:57 Michelle’s thoughts on Fanny Alger

04:39:45 Why were there rumors of polygamy going on in the church in 1835?

05:00:40 Questions on the Nauvoo Expositor

05:33:00 How can the church be true if the original men made so many mistakes?

05:40:50 What are her thoughts on the church maybe excommunicating her?

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In December 2024, the Mormon Church released a new chapter in the children’s Doctrine and Covenants Stories on the topic of polygamy. In that chapter they discuss how God sometimes commands his people to live polygamy and how hard it was for Joseph Smith to obey. The chapter also discusses how Joseph’s wife Emma did not want her husband to marry other women. Children were even taught that some of the brethren were arrested and put in prison for living polygamy.

After the release of that chapter many people spoke up, criticizing the church for this new content. Many believed these stories were too heavy for children and that by releasing this chapter the Mormon Church was actively teaching a story of sexual assault and grooming.

Today we learned that the church changed this chapter. Certain phrasing was removed as well as entire sections of the chapter. Is this due to online criticism of the church teaching children polygamy? Does the Mormon Church cave under pressure? Join us today as John, Julia (from Analyzing Mormonism), and Alyssa Witbeck discuss these changes.

YouTube

Show Notes

00:07:55 Clip - Criticism forces the church to change

00:25:36 Clip - Nathan Hinckley talking about them using the word “hard”

00:26:15 Comparing the original and the new version

00:35:20 Clip - Is God okay with forced polygamy?

00:36:55 Comparing the changes on the second image

00:42:20 Clip - “The Mormon church is participating in sexual assault”

00:53:46 Clip - Michelle Stone on Emma Smith00:56:10 In the new version this section has been completely taken out

01:01:58 Clip - “How did this get through the review process?”

01:15:22 Clip - Mormon leaders went to prison01:19:24 The last panel did not change on Woodruff’s manifesto

01:26:08 Polygamy is still hard on women today in an eternal aspect

01:36:25 What was the 2015 Exclusion Policy and how the church rolled it back

01:32:40 Answers from the Church History Survey

01:48:17 The story of Zina Huntington

01:50:30 Clip - Can consent be given in a Mormon context?

01:54:55 This is a positive change overall

02:03:10 What is it that causes people to question their faith?

02:06:11 Clip - “A faith that blinds you is problematic”

02:08:25 Final thoughts

___________________

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

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A 15 question quiz has been designed to facilitate healthy discussions about factual LDS Church history, and LDS Church historical transparency. It should take less than 5 minutes to complete.

Audience: This quiz is for anyone who has ever been an LDS Church member, including active and inactive LDS Church members, and former LDS. Please take this quiz yourself, and then please invite family, friends, and (most importantly) LDS church leaders and missionaries to take the quiz as well.

We are hopeful that the survey can serve as a way for you and others to healthily discuss factual LDS Church history, as well as the LDS Church's overall record of historical transparency. NOTE: All of the historical facts below have been recognized by the LDS church as valid, to the best of our understanding. References have been included for discussion.

We will be awarding a modest number of cash awards to those who complete the survey in its entirety, and who are willing to share compelling insights or experiences - which might include coming on the podcast to discuss their experiences.  We are also considering the option of administering this survey as a scientific, random survey.  If you are interested in supporting such a project, feel free to donate at the link below.

Enjoy! And please email us with any feedback or experiences you'd like to share.

Survey link: https://forms.gle/3o7Tr6ZHKzoEBpMs8

To donate to this project: https://donorbox.org/ldschurchresearch

YouTube

Show Notes

00:08:30 Going over the survey together, email, etc.

00:12:00 Question one - Were you taught about Joseph Smith’s 1826 Treasure digging trial?

00:14:10 Question two: What were you taught regarding the Book of Mormon translation?

00:15:50 Question three: What were you taught about the priesthood restoration?

00:17:18 Question four: Were you taught that Joseph Smith had over thirty wives?

00:18:20 Question five: Were you taught that Joseph Smith hid his first marriages from his wife Emma?

00:22:20 Question six: Were you taught about the different accounts of the First Vision

00:24:55 Question seven: Were you taught that Joseph Smith allowed black men to have the priesthood?

00:27:44 Question eight: Were you taught that Joseph Smith was a Freemason?

00:29:40 Question nine: Where you taught that the Book of Abraham is a false translation?

00:32:10 Question ten: Were you taught about Joseph Smith destroying the Nauvoo Expositor?

00:35:00 Question eleven: Do you feel like the Church has been fully honest?

00:35:35 Question twelve: Do you feel like the truth claims are important?

00:36:55 Question thirteen: Would you have made different decisions had you known?

00:38:29 Question fourteen: Did the church intentionally withhold this information?

00:58:40 Why did the church even release the Gospel Topics Essays?

01:30:00 Share this survey with friends and family

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Anna shares her personal journey growing up as a Pentecostal Charismatic in Utah, detailing her experiences within the Assemblies of God (AG) church, and the struggles and beliefs that shaped her faith. Although she has never been Mormon, Anna has a unique perspective of the LDS church as she grew up surrounded by Mormonism in Utah. Anna also delves into her time as a missionary in Mozambique, her eventual questioning of her beliefs, and the emotional journey of leaving the church. The conversation touches on the challenges of leaving a high-demand religion and finding new paths to healing and authenticity.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:04:14 Anna’s intention

00:15:35 “Gift of Tongues” vs “Speaking in Tongues”

00:25:43 Both of Anna’s parents are pastors

00:40:00 The belief in “healing” abilities in Assemblies of God

00:56:00 Anna diagnosed with cancer around age two, they thought religion could heal her

01:19:20 Why do “mainstream” Christians not see Mormons as Christians?

01:33:18 Anna was conditioned to believe that expressing emotion shows closeness to God

01:52:08 Anna talks about what it was like to have Mormon parents not want their kids to be around her

02:01:17 Speaking in tongues for the first time

02:16:50 Creating false memories

02:26:45 How are sexual transgressions seen in evangelicalism vs mormonism?

02:38:05 Anna stopped attending church and school because she felt so ashamed

02:40:50 Anna’s connections with the Latter Day Church of Christ or the polygamist Kingston Group

02:52:41 Anna’s time in Mozambique

03:02:45 It took Anna years to adjust back to normal after her work on her mission

03:10:20 Anna felt like God was calling her home to “save the Mormons”

03:21:10 Anna voicing: “I have created an image of myself that isn't real”

03:38:30 Questioning what to do with her life after leaving that mission

03:47:20 Anna began to see red flags in her pastor -he was not financially transparent and sexist

03:52:15 Anna’s pastor gives sermon called “Four Bad Reasons that People Leave the Church”

04:12:04 Anna feels extremely alone now after leaving

04:25:00 Her parents are still not very willing to view things that are critical of the church

04:45:13 Watched Margi’s “Coming home to myself” THRIVE presentation

04:50:08 What are her moments where she taps into beauty or pleasure?

04:53:46 Final questions for Anna

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Many have asked the question: Did Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith have sex with his polygamous wives? During his lifetime, Joseph Smith engaged in polygamy (which was illegal in the state of Illinois) and his wives consisted of women who were underage, women who were single, women who were widowed, and women who were already legally married. What is the evidence for his sexual relations with them? Additionally a number of the brethren were also commanded to live polygamy, what is the evidence for sexual relations in those unions? Were any children born in polygamy during the prophet’s life? Join us for a unique LDS Discussions episode where we explore these topics and answer these questions.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:10:50 The purpose of polygamy from the scriptures - Book of Mormon Jacob 2:27-30

00:14:05 List of all 35 of Joseph Smith’s wives

00:19:45 Color coded list of the wives and sexual relations with Joseph Smith

00:26:55 Fanny Alger was Joseph Smith’s first “polygamous” wife

00:32:45 Lucinda Pendleton Harris was the first polyandrous wife

00:38:20 Zina Huntington was already married and was seven months pregnant

00:45:30 Presendia Buell didn’t know if her son was Joseph’s son

00:49:42 Levirate Marriage with Agnes Smith, Joseph Smith’s sister-in-law

00:58:44 Sylvia Sessions Lyon thought her daughter was actually Joseph Smith’s

01:01:15 How can the Mormon polygamy deniers explain this away?

01:12:40 Elizabeth Durfee helped Joseph arrange new plural marriages

01:19:00 Did Emma Smith push Eliza R. Snow down the stairs?

01:22:26 Clip - Emma Smith did not attend Relief Society through all of 1843

01:30:06 Sarah Ann Whitney had a fake or “front husband” after she married Joseph Smith

01:38:00 Joseph Smith visited Flora Ann Woodworth often

01:54:50 Lucy Walker answers the question of why Joseph Smith didn’t have children in polygamy

02:05:36 Helen Mar Kimball was only fourteen years old

02:25:50 Desdemona Fullmer dreamed that Emma was going to poison her

02:36:40 Malissa Lott’s testimony that she slept with Joseph Smith

02:46:10 Human Trafficking in Mormon history

03:03:10 Children born into polygamy

03:08:52 The final count for who Joseph Smith had sex with and who he did not

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