MSP Mastery Podcast

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Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl Alt Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP, one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we are joined by Murray Smith, a Certified EOS Implementer™ based in Geelong, Victoria. Murray helps leadership teams build clarity, discipline and accountability through the Entrepreneurial Operating System. With a background in Victoria Police and experience working with businesses across a range of industries, including MSPs, Murray brings a practical perspective on what it takes to build a business that can grow without relying on the owner for everything.

Murray, Nick and I share a long connection through EOS, with both Nick and I having worked as implementers before Nick moved into his current work as an integrator for MSPs. This conversation brings together the visionary, implementer and integrator perspectives to explore what it really takes to turn a business operating system into consistent action.

We discuss why the best processes should support the team rather than make people slaves to the process, and how to recognise when spreadsheets, manual updates and disconnected tools are creating unnecessary work.

We also talk about the importance of financial visibility, clear accountability and leadership teams that are prepared to have honest conversations, challenge each other and keep doing the work even when it feels messy or uncomfortable.

Here is what we covered together:

✅ The changing MSP landscape: Why sales cycles are taking longer, why market consolidation matters, and why MSPs need a stronger pipeline than they may have needed in the past.

✅ Selling the problem, not the product: Why buyers are doing more research than ever and why trust based conversations create stronger long term client relationships.

✅ Commitment before tools: Why an operating system only works when the leadership team genuinely wants to improve and commits to consistent execution.

✅ The discipline of doing the work: Why goals and quarterly priorities only matter when people make time every week to move them forward.

✅ The importance of the integrator: Why the person driving daily execution is essential when most of the work happens outside the leadership meeting.

✅ Clarity through accountability: How an accountability chart helps MSPs establish who is truly responsible for sales, service delivery, account management, finance and more.

✅ Knowing your break even number: Why every leadership team should understand the monthly break even point so they can make decisions with financial awareness.

✅ Sharing the numbers: How giving leaders access to meaningful data helps them understand the levers they can pull to improve performance.

✅ Service delivery ownership: Why operations leaders need visibility of service gross margin and the financial impact of their department.

✅ Process should not become the work: How to recognise when spreadsheets, manual administration or disconnected tools are slowing the team down.

✅ Platforms and personal accountability: Why the right platform can support the business, but should not remove individual ownership of the numbers and actions.

✅ Healthy leadership conflict: Why a strong leadership team can challenge ideas, have difficult conversations and still remain united around what is best for the business.

✅ The danger of the one voice in the room: How visionary leaders can unintentionally limit their team when they answer every question and hold on to every decision.

✅ Finding the right operating system: Why MSP owners should first understand what is driving the need for change before choosing EOS or another business operating system.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP, with practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

Learn more about Murray and his work with leadership teams at Grip6, or connect with him on LinkedIn.

👉 Read more episode notes here: mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id1828105793
📸 Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl Alt Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP, one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we are joined by Nicky Miklós. Nicky is a professional sales coach who has spent years helping business leaders build high performing teams and cultures. She understands the unique challenges MSPs face when trying to grow a sales engine that involves more than just the founder.

Nicky returns to MSP Mastery for a second conversation to dig deeper into the concept of making sales a team sport. We explore the transition from individual brilliance to consistent processes, the importance of leadership transparency, and how to help technical teams see that identifying a client need is simply another form of service.

Many MSPs struggle with a cowboy culture where sales are inconsistent and rely on a few high performers. We discuss how owners can introduce the structure and playbooks of the sheriff without killing the energy and personality that makes the team successful.

We also explore why sharing the business journey including goals, wins, and financials is the key to building a culture of trust where every department, from administration to the service desk, feels like they are part of the winning team.

Here is what we covered together:

✅ Redefining Sales as Service: How to coach high performing engineers to see that identifying a client problem is not salesy but an essential part of delivering great service.

✅ The Importance of Internal Education: Why a technical team cannot help a business grow if they do not know the full range of products and services the company offers.

✅ Cowboy Culture vs. The Sheriff: Why growing MSPs need to move from chaotic, individual sales efforts toward consistent, documented processes and playbooks.

✅ The Power of the Get Together: How stepping out of the day to day business for offsite strategy days allows leaders to look at the penthouse view of their growth story.

✅ Transitioning Sales Knowledge: The challenge of getting the sales process out of the founder’s head and into the business so it can be repeated and scaled.

✅ Building a High Vibing Sales Culture: Why celebrations, energy, and shared excitement are essential for maintaining momentum in a growing sales team.

✅ Leading by Example: Why owners must first understand the lay of the land and the genius already in the room before making bulk changes to the way the team works.

✅ Sales as an Inclusive Sport: Why administrative, finance, and technical departments all play a role in a successful sales outcome and should be included in the celebrations.

✅ The Value of Transparency: Why sharing sales targets and business results creates accountability and allows the team to help you achieve your goals.

✅ Reframing Financials: How to educate your team on how a business actually operates so they understand that revenue and profit are what allow the business to support them.

✅ Identifying Productivity Gains: Using technical insights to spot simple opportunities for clients such as matching screen resolutions that improve their daily work life.

✅ The Monthly and Quarterly Wrap: A tactical structure for sharing wins, learnings, and future focus points to keep the entire business aligned.

✅ The Loom Video Advantage: Why creative touchpoints and short video messages remain one of the most effective ways to stand out in a crowded market.

✅ Practicing non attachment to Outcomes: How leaders can help their teams handle lost deals by treating them as lessons and creating space for the right clients.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP, with practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

👉 Read more episode notes here: mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id1828105793
📸 Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl Alt Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP, one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we are joined by Vivienne Winborne from One Little Seed. Vivienne is a respected marketing voice in the Australian MSP channel, helping technology businesses grow through practical, senior level strategy that connects with local clients.

Vivienne joins us for her second conversation on MSP Mastery, and this time we explore the changing world of MSP marketing, the impact of artificial intelligence on search and content, and the challenge of building a brand that can grow beyond its founder.

Many MSPs begin with the founder’s personal reputation, relationships and personality. But as the business grows, the brand needs to become something that the whole team and client base can connect with. We discuss how MSP owners can preserve their authenticity while creating a scalable brand that can stand on its own two feet.

We also explore why the way people find information may be changing, but the foundations of successful marketing remain the same: clear communication, useful content, brand trust and genuine authority.

Here is what we covered together:

✅ Growing Beyond the Founder: Why an MSP brand personality needs to evolve beyond the founder, while still preserving the authenticity and qualities that made the business successful.

✅ Letting Go Without Losing the Brand: The challenge founders face when they begin to step back, and how their personality and values can become part of a stronger organisational identity.

✅ Turning Values into Behaviours: Why words such as honesty and integrity are not enough on their own, and how businesses can define the behaviours that demonstrate those values every day.

✅ Marketing in an Artificial Intelligence World: How artificial intelligence is changing the way people search for information, while the need for trust, authority and well structured content remains the same.

✅ Writing for People and Artificial Intelligence: Why clear, simple and accessible language matters across websites, frequently asked questions, marketing content and client communication.

✅ Using Artificial Intelligence as a Tool: How MSPs can use artificial intelligence to support content creation and consistency without handing over their strategy, judgement and brand voice.

✅ Avoiding Artificial Intelligence Slop: Why generic content fails to build trust, and the importance of adding human experience, context and genuine insight to everything your business publishes.

✅ Stop Selling the Rolls Royce First: Why MSPs should consider meeting clients at their current level of maturity instead of trying to sell the complete solution from the very first conversation.

✅ Building Trust Through Education: How helping clients understand their technology risks and opportunities creates stronger relationships than relying on fear based selling.

✅ Becoming a Strategic Technology Partner: Why MSPs need to understand their clients’ broader business goals and help them use technology as an accelerator for growth.

✅ Making Invisible Value Visible: How MSPs can communicate the work they do to reduce risk, improve resilience and keep their clients’ businesses running smoothly.

✅ Building Authority Through Focus: Why understanding a specific industry or client group can help an MSP become a trusted specialist instead of trying to appeal to everyone.

✅ Using Existing Clients to Create Growth: How case studies, referrals and client success stories can help MSPs build credibility with similar organisations.

✅ Marketing as a Complete Client Experience: Why marketing is not limited to social media and websites, but includes client reporting, proposals, conversations, service delivery and every interaction with the business.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP, with practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

👉 Read more episode notes here: mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id1828105793
📸 Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl Alt Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP, one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we conclude our special three part series exploring the pillars that shape every successful MSP.

Part three is all about the Mindset of a Leader – Breaking the Cycle of Overwhelm.

Every MSP eventually becomes a reflection of its leadership. The culture, the energy, the growth, the standards and the performance of the team are all influenced by the mindset of the person at the top.

Nick and Jeni share honest lessons from their own MSP journey, including how a leader’s energy can affect an entire team, why owners need to protect time for deep work, and how to stop carrying every problem in the business alone.

Here is what we covered together:

• Mindset Shapes the Business: Why the way a leader thinks, feels and shows up has a direct impact on the culture, performance and direction of an MSP.

• Recognising Your Own Energy: How to become more aware of the mindset you bring into the office, client meetings and difficult conversations.

• The Impact of a Leader’s Spark: Why owners need to regularly reflect on whether they are still motivated by their business and what to do when that energy starts to fade.

• Letting Go of Expectations: Why doing your best work without expecting an immediate reward, return or specific outcome can change the way you approach opportunities.

• From Obligation to Purpose: How to start making a long term plan when you feel trapped in a business that no longer gives you energy or fulfilment.

• Discipline, Boundaries and Consequences: Why people need clear expectations, defined standards and real accountability to succeed.

• Leadership Versus Management: Why getting work done is not the same as leading people, and how mentoring and coaching help your team become the best version of themselves.

• Stop Solving Everyone Else’s Monkeys: How asking “What do you think?” helps people build confidence, make decisions and take ownership of their work.

• Protecting Deep Work: Why constant interruptions are the enemy of quality work, and how leaders can create space to focus on strategic priorities.

• Getting Out of the Weeds: Why it is impossible to make good strategic decisions when you are buried in operational demands and reacting to every urgent request.

• The Power of Saying No: How clear goals, core values and an abundance mindset can help MSP owners say no to work, clients and opportunities that do not fit.

• Finding Your Mojo: Why your motivation will change as your business evolves, and why leaders need to keep revisiting their why.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP, practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

👉 Read more episode notes here: https://mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id18281057
📸 Follow on Instagram: https://instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl Alt Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP, one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we continue our special three part series exploring the pillars that shape every successful MSP.

Part two is all about Process.

Without solid, trusted and simple processes, an MSP cannot truly scale. Owners remain caught in daily operations, technicians are left guessing, and every new team member or offshore resource creates more pressure rather than more capacity.

Nick and Jeni share honest lessons from their own MSP journey, including what happens when you outsource a mess, rely on knowledge that only lives in someone’s head, or overload your team with documentation that no one actually uses.

Here is what we covered together:

• Process Creates Freedom: Why clear core processes are the pathway to consistent results, greater capacity and an MSP that does not rely on the owner for every decision.
• Do Not Outsource Your Mess: Why offshore support fails when your processes, client information and internal workflows are not documented clearly first.
• The Three Layers of Great Documentation: How to build a simple structure using high level process flowcharts, practical checklists and detailed SOPs or technical documentation.
• Documentation Needs an Update Process: Why documentation becomes useless the moment your team stops trusting it, and why every person in the business needs to take responsibility for keeping it current.
• Your PSA Should Be the Source of Truth: Why your PSA, RMM and documentation systems need to work together, rather than creating confusion through disconnected tools and duplicate information.
• Triage Sets Technicians Up for Success: Why a ticket should be correctly categorised, checked and linked to the right information before it reaches a technician.
• Stop Making Technicians Guess: How poor ticket triage, unclear workflows and missing documentation waste technical time and create a frustrating experience for both the team and the client.
• The 20 Per Cent That Matters Most: Why you do not need to document every rare task in the business. Instead, focus first on the core 20 per cent of processes that cover 80 per cent of your daily work.
• Tool Consolidation and Simplicity: Why adding more tools does not always improve your MSP, and how getting more value from the systems you already use can reduce complexity and save time.
• Guardrails Create Ownership: How delegated authority, clear limits and defined decision making parameters help team members act confidently without constantly seeking permission.
• Building an MSP Manual: Why documentation is not about turning people into robots. It is about giving people the clarity, confidence and guardrails to deliver consistent work while still bringing their own personality and problem solving skills.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP, practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

👉 Read more episode notes here: https://mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id18281057
📸 Follow on Instagram:
https://instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl-Alt-Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP; one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long-time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we kick off part one of a special three-part series delving into the pillars that shape every successful MSP. We are starting with the most critical, and often the most challenging, component: People.

What makes this conversation essential for MSP owners is the honest look at the "Owner Bottleneck". We explore why so many leaders struggle to let go of control, the psychological shift required to trust a team, and the practical difference between effective delegation and simply abdicating responsibility.

Here is what we covered together:

• The Owner Bottleneck: Why MSP owners often become the biggest constraint to their own growth and how to stop being the hero addicted to having all the answers.
• 87 Percent Perfection: Why chasing a 100 percent "my way" approach will send you broke, and the power of accepting that your team will do things differently than you would.
• Delegation versus Abdication: A deep dive into why "dump and run" leadership fails and how to provide the structure, documentation, and evidence-based progress needed to truly let go.
• The Psychology of Communication: How understanding behavioural profiles like eDISC and Kolbe helps you adjust your language so your instructions actually land with your team.
• Accountability over KPI Theatre: Why static reports fail and how real-time dashboards and manual scorecard entry create genuine ownership in your technical team.
• Hiring for Vibe and Humility: Why raw technical brilliance often pales in comparison to team fit, and the story of the "God Complex" tech who lacked the humility to ask simple questions.
• Creating a Safe Place to Fail: Why firing someone for a major technical mistake is often a disservice to the business, and how to build a culture where the whole team learns from errors.
• The Intern Era of AI: A brief look at treating AI agents like grade five interns who need coaching and mentoring rather than expecting them to replace creative human work.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP; practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

👉 Read more episode notes here: https://mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id18281057
📸 Follow on Instagram:
https://instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl-Alt-Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP; one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long-time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this special panel episode, we are joined by three industry experts to answer a fundamental question: If you were starting an MSP from scratch today, what would it look like? Our panel includes Aaron Smith from Morphability, Ryan Spillane from 360 Consulting, and Tas Gray from Axiom IT.

Each guest brings a unique lens to the table, from sales and marketing strategy to financial resilience and the cutting edge of AI-driven operations. This isn't just a theoretical exercise; it is a masterclass in building a business that is profitable, scalable, and built for the future.

What makes this conversation particularly relevant for MSP owners is the focus on building strong foundations before adding complexity. We explore the essential financial rules that protect cash flow, why your brand must sound human in an AI-driven world, and how to use automation to support your team rather than replace them.

Here is what we covered together:

✅ The 2026 MSP Blueprint: Our panel designs a hypothetical modern MSP from the ground up, focusing on niche positioning and a productised service offering.

✅ Spend the Ten Grand: Ryan Spillane shares a critical lesson on business structure, explaining why an upfront investment in a proper partnership deed is the best insurance a business owner can buy.

✅ Authenticity in an AI World: Aaron Smith warns against the "copy and paste" epidemic in marketing and explains how to use AI for structure while keeping your final voice authentic and local.

✅ The Three Numbers that Matter: A deep dive into the financial metrics every MSP leader should track weekly to ensure profitability and long-term sustainability.

✅ AI First Operations: Tas Gray shares practical use cases for AI, including how his team built a Claude Skill to review documentation and automate the quality control of internal processes.

✅ Standardise Before You Automate: Why great automation starts with great documentation, and how to use AI to keep your SOPs current and reliable.

✅ The Human Element of Service: Why the help desk remains the face of your business and how to use automation to free your team up for higher value customer interactions.

✅ Sales Strategies for Growth: Aaron Smith breaks down the simplest, most credible way to generate leads today by solving specific business problems rather than selling technical tools.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP; practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

Connect with our guests:

Aaron Smith LinkedIn Page:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/morphabilityas

Ryan Spillane LinkedIn Page:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/fuzzyaus/

Tas Gray LinkedIn Page:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tasgray

👉 Read more episode notes here: https://mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id1828105793
📸 Follow on Instagram:
https://instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl-Alt-Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP; one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we are joined by Brenton Johnson, Managing Director of Uptake Digital. Brenton has built a strong reputation for helping small and mid-market organisations get real value from cloud, security, and smarter technology decisions.

He is a practitioner who thinks differently, cares deeply about culture, and invests heavily in people, which makes his journey highly relevant for any MSP owner looking to scale without losing the human side of service.

What makes Brenton’s story particularly relevant for MSP owners is his focus on becoming the "least valuable person" in his business. We explore the strategic decisions behind building a team of experts, the importance of "manufactured gaps" in customer service, and why leaning into a niche is more powerful than trying to be incrementally better than the crowd.

Here is what we covered together:
✅ Becoming the Least Valuable Person: How Brenton took five weeks off and discovered the business could run successfully without him, and why that is the ultimate goal for every owner.
✅ Manufactured Gaps and Cultural Stories: A masterclass in empathy where a technician suggested a stressed client stop for a cup of tea, and why Brenton now writes these stories down to preserve the "why" of his business.
✅ Leadership and Emotional Self-Awareness: The hard work of catching yourself before you react, building vulnerability-based trust, and managing the HR challenges that come with growth.
✅ Don’t Be Better, Be Different: Why Brenton challenges the "commodity" mindset and explains that technical capability alone cannot beat a deeply understood niche.
✅ Neurodiversity as a Superpower: A candid conversation on the "Gold in the ADHD brain" and why the traits that cause friction in school are often the exact ones that drive entrepreneurial success.
✅ Investing in Internal Growth: Why promoting from within and training leadership skills is the most reliable way to build a high-performing and loyal team.
✅ Vendor Relationships and Win-Win outcomes: How treating vendors as true partners and understanding their incentives leads to better results for the MSP and the client.
✅ The Value of Being a Country MSP: Why lean, empathetic, and relationship-driven "country values" have helped Uptake Digital stand out in a crowded metropolitan market.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP; practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

For more about Brenton and Uptake Digital visit: uptakedigital.com.au
Brenton Johnson LinkedIn Page: linkedin.com/in/brentonjohnson

👉 Read more episode notes here: mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id1828105793
📸 Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl-Alt-Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP; one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we are joined by Tas Gray, founder of Axiom IT and the creator of MSP Magic. With decades of experience in software development and managed services, Tas has successfully navigated the journey many MSP owners dream of: identifying a gap in the market, building a product to solve it, and achieving a successful exit.

What makes Tas’s story particularly relevant for MSP owners is his candid reflection on the reality of the side hustle. We explore the strategic decisions behind starting a separate venture, the tipping point where an internal tool becomes a marketable product, and the personal toll of running a service business and a SaaS company simultaneously.

Here is what we covered together:

✅ Identifying the Gap: How the release of Microsoft 365 Business Premium and Intune created a greenfields opportunity for multi tenant management.

✅ Internal Tool to Global Product: Why Tas decided to capitalise on his internal solutions to create a product for the entire industry rather than keeping innovations to himself.

✅ The Reality of Competition: How to stay focused when open source and free alternatives enter your market and light a fire under your development.

✅ Strategic Funding and Risk: Why separating the side hustle from the MSP financially was a critical move to protect both businesses.

✅ The Acquisition Journey: The process of selling to Hornet Security and how to assess a buyer’s culture to ensure a successful exit.

✅ The Personal Cost of Hustle: An honest look at the chronic stress and cortisol levels that come with dual leadership, and why decompression is vital.

✅ Lessons in Commitment: Why Tas believes that to truly succeed in a new venture, you must eventually move it from a side hustle to the main game.

✅ The Identity Shift: Navigating the emotional transition of selling your "baby" and finding purpose after a major business exit.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP; practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

For more about Tas and Axiom IT visit: axiomit.com.au
Tas Gray LinkedIn Page: linkedin.com/in/tasgray

👉 Read more episode notes here: mspmastery.blog
👉 Listen on YouTube: youtube.com/@MSPMastery
🎧 Listen on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4gftErFYrR8F80kthgvFbs
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/msp-mastery-ctrl-alt-deliver/id1828105793
📸 Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/mspmastery

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome to MSP Mastery: Ctrl-Alt-Deliver Podcast, the podcast for MSP owners and leaders who want to build a better MSP; one that actually works for them.

I am Jeni Clift, joined by my husband and long time business partner, Nick Clift. Together, we unpack what is really working in thriving MSPs, including insights from the trusted partners who support them.

In this episode, we are joined by Nicky Miklós, a sales leadership strategist, coach, author, and host of the Smart Business Growth Podcast. Nicky has more than 20 years of experience helping businesses build smart sales systems and confident leaders. She was also instrumental in our own journey at DWM Solutions, helping us transform our sales team into a high performing engine.

What makes Nicky’s perspective so valuable for MSP owners is her focus on healthy hustle, the idea that you can achieve strong commercial results without sacrificing your wellbeing or the health of your team. We explore how to move away from being a hero founder and how to build a sales culture where growth is everyone’s responsibility.

Here is what we covered together:

✅ The sales team sport mentality: Why growth should never sit entirely on the owner’s shoulders and how to involve different roles across the business in the sales process.

✅ The death of the information giver: Why being a source of data is no longer enough in the age of AI, and how to transition into a decision facilitator for your clients.

✅ Building bidirectional trust: The counter intuitive leadership tactic of paying staff to exercise during work hours to drive stronger efficiency and deeper loyalty.

✅ Moving beyond cowboy culture: How to shift from a figure it out as you go approach to an aligned system using playbooks, capability lifts, and structured methodologies.

✅ The human proof advantage: Why leaning into imperfection, like raw videos or unscripted voice notes, builds more trust in 2026 than polished corporate content.

✅ Sales rhythms and benchmarks: Why you need clear benchmarks of success and regular checkpoints to maintain consistent momentum without micromanaging.

✅ The growth set point: Understanding that the strategies that got your MSP to its current size are likely the same things holding you back from the next level of growth.

✅ Non attachment to outcomes: How to stay disciplined with your sales activity and follow ups without taking individual no’s personally.

We created this podcast to share the real conversations and lessons we wish we had more of while running our own MSP; practical insights from people who understand the challenges of this industry.

For more about Nicky visit her website page: nickymiklos.com

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