My Way Marketing

Layoffs in tech feel personal.

But most of the time, they’re not.

In this episode of My Way Marketing, I sit down with Hattie the PMM to unpack why smart, hardworking marketers keep getting laid off — and why it’s rarely about talent or effort.

The real issue?

Most marketers are playing checkers in a world that rewards chess players.

We talk about why marketing is still treated as a cost center, how people-pleasing quietly destroys careers, and the hidden rules that determine who survives when budgets tighten.

This isn’t a motivational pep talk.

It’s a clear-eyed conversation about career leverage, visibility, and ownership — and how to stop confusing hard work with real value.

If you’ve ever felt undervalued, disposable, or stuck in a loop of burnout → layoffs → self-doubt, this episode will help you reframe the game you’re playing.

• Why layoffs are usually structural, not personal
• The difference between doing great work and being perceived as valuable
• Why marketers are often trained to play the wrong game
• How people-pleasing keeps you invisible
• What “career profitability” actually means
• Why soft skills now matter more than ever
• How to move from execution to ownership without burning out

• Being busy is not the same as being valuable
• Visibility and judgment matter more than effort in downturns
• Careers stall because of misalignment, not lack of skill
• Playing the game consciously beats pretending it doesn’t exist
• The most resilient marketers invest in becoming, not just doing

“You’re not bad at marketing. You were just playing checkers in a chess game.”

“The game is being played whether you play it or not.”

“Careers don’t collapse because of effort. They collapse because of invisibility.”

“If another person has done it, it means you can too.”

• B2B marketers with 5–15+ years of experience
• Product marketers, growth leads, heads of marketing
• Anyone expected to own outcomes, not just deliver work
• Marketers navigating layoffs, burnout, or career stagnation
• People who want leverage, not hustle

Most advice teaches you how to execute better.

This episode helps you think more clearly — and build a career that compounds instead of resets.

Visit www.productmarketers.com

Subscribe to my newsletter: www.ivanburic.com/subscribe

The conversation covers a wide range of topics, including personal branding, marketing, and the role of product marketing. Shane De La Force shares insights on the importance of personal branding, the impact of diverse experiences on marketing, and the significance of understanding target audiences. He also discusses the role of product marketing in driving growth and the value of a holistic approach to marketing.

Takeaways

• Personal branding is crucial for professionals and can be a valuable asset when transitioning between roles.
• Understanding target audiences and their needs is essential for effective marketing strategies.
• Product marketing plays a pivotal role in driving growth and should be aligned with the overall marketing strategy.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Diverse Experiences in Marketing
• 06:07 Understanding Target Audiences and Marketing Strategies
• 11:04 AI in Marketing and the Human Element
• 17:40 The Four Ps of Marketing and Branding
• 30:51 The Role of Product Marketing in the Marketing Organization
• 42:21 Personal Branding and Career Development
• 47:37 Personal Values and Decision-Making

In this episode, I’m joined by Silvia Román, Senior Product Marketing Manager at Booking.com and leadership mentor, for a deep and practical conversation on product marketing, leadership, and influence without authority.

Silvia shares her journey from Latin America to Amsterdam, from marketing generalist to product marketing leader, and how working inside a global company shaped her approach to leadership, growth, and inclusion.

We explore what product marketing really looks like inside a large organization like Booking.com, especially on the B2B and B2B2B side, and why the true value of product marketing sits at the intersection of product, market, and commercial teams.

A big part of the conversation focuses on leadership. Silvia breaks down what it means to influence without authority, how trust and self-awareness outperform hierarchy, and why leadership is fundamentally about relationships, not titles.

This episode is packed with practical frameworks, real-world examples, and actionable advice on:

• Product marketing at scale in global organizations
• Influence without authority and stakeholder management
• Leading diverse and international teams
• Building a realistic personal development plan
• Managing underperformance with empathy and clarity
• The difference between leadership and mentorship

Silvia also shares insights from her leadership programs and mentoring work, designed to help new and aspiring managers build confidence and lead with intention.

This episode is for product marketers, leaders, and anyone navigating growth, leadership, and complexity inside modern organizations.

In this episode, I sit down with Theresa Gschwandtner, an Austrian-born product marketing powerhouse who built her career across cities like London, Boston, New York, Dublin, and Paris. From scaling LinkedIn’s product marketing to founding Kundra, a startup tackling parental leave, Theresa shares how diverse cultural experiences, authentic leadership, and structure have shaped her career.

We dive into:

• Global product marketing & cultural localization
• Structuring and scaling PMM teams
• Building in public as a founder
• Public speaking and leadership as learnable skills
• The unseen challenges of parental leave in the workplace

Notable Quotes

“Public speaking is a skill you can learn—and should. Especially in Europe, we don’t emphasize it enough.”— Theresa Gschwandtner

“A good PMM should think like a founder. You own the narrative, the research, the launch, the customer.”

“People don’t buy from companies. They buy from people.”

“Kundra is me, and I am Kundra. That’s why I decided to build in public.”

Connect with Theresa

• LinkedIn: Theresa Gschwandtner
• Website: kundra.ai
• Podcast: Kundra (on Spotify & Apple Podcasts)
• Substack: Kundra Notes
• Instagram: @kundra.ai

In this episode, I talk with Anna Borbotko, product marketer turned enablement leader at TomTom. Anna’s career is anything but linear — from dreaming of becoming a journalist, to procurement, to product marketing, and now enablement. Along the way, she has built a strong presence on LinkedIn and launched her own newsletter, Product Marketing Pulse.

We dive into the future of work, the skills that really matter, and why creating your own intellectual property will define careers in the years ahead.

What we talked about:

• How Anna got her role at TomTom during COVID thanks to “the click” with her hiring manager.
• Why she looks beyond hard skills when hiring, and what she really pays attention to in junior candidates.
• The unusual interview question she asks everyone: “If you see a wall in front of you, what would you do?”
• Why product launches aren’t where the real value lies — and why the post-launch phase matters more.
• How TomTom successfully pivoted from B2C to B2B and what it means for product marketers.
• The shift from “skilled labor” to intellectual property — and why the future belongs to those who turn their knowledge into scalable assets.
• Why Anna doesn’t believe in traditional training, and how she’s building a framework for enablement that focuses on learning by doing.
• How building visibility on LinkedIn (even without a big strategy) led to speaking invites, collaborations, and new opportunities.
• Why consistency and presence matter more than going viral.
• Anna’s perspective on AI, why she calls herself a “dinosaur” in adoption, and how she sees enablement evolving into managing AI agents.

One of my favorite quotes from Anna:

📌 Connect with Anna:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/product-marketing-amsterdam/
• Newsletter: ex Product Marketing Pulse, now rebranded as Lines & Leaps. (https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/7037060648253431809/)

If you’re interested in product marketing, enablement, or simply how to future-proof your career in the age of AI, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

In this episode of MyWay, I sit down with Jane Portman — co-founder of Userlist, host of two long-running podcasts (UI Breakfast and Better Done Than Perfect), and a veteran UI/UX designer turned SaaS founder. Jane shares her journey from running a solo design consultancy to building a SaaS product in one of the most competitive markets: email marketing automation for SaaS companies.

We dive into the evolution of design’s role in SaaS, why user onboarding should be every founder’s top priority, the truth about “behavior-based” email marketing, and the biggest mistakes companies make when moving from simple newsletters to advanced automation. Jane also reveals her Atomic Emails framework, a practical system to overcome creative block and design email sequences that actually convert.

And because she’s been podcasting for over a decade, we also talk about what it takes to keep a show running consistently for 10+ years, what she’s learned from hundreds of guests, and why podcasting is her favorite long-term marketing asset.

Episode Highlights:

• Why great UI/UX is an advantage, not always a necessity — and when it is a must-have.
• The difference between SaaS email marketing and “generic” email automation.
• The two foundational workflows every SaaS company should have: onboarding and paying-customer retention.
• Best practices for nurturing campaigns — and the common mistake of overthinking them.
• How the Atomic Emails framework turns existing content into high-performing campaigns.
• The technical and creative skills needed to execute behavior-based email marketing.
• How Userlist uses roadmapping sessions to bridge the gap between marketing and engineering.
• What Jane has learned from over 400 podcast episodes — and the systems that keep her consistent.

Quote of the Episode

Key Learnings

1. Design is powerful, but context matters. Great design can give you a competitive edge, but many SaaS businesses succeed before perfecting UI/UX.
2. SaaS email marketing is data-driven. It requires product usage tracking, segmentation, and triggers — far beyond standard email campaigns.
3. Start simple before going advanced. Complex systems evolve from simple ones; most companies only need advanced automation after a couple of years.
4. Onboarding is universal. No matter the pricing model, activating new users is the highest-leverage email workflow you can build.
5. Deliverability is earned. Authenticate your domain, separate cold outreach from product emails, and respect unsubscribe preferences.
6. Podcasting longevity comes from systems. Consistency is easier when production is a repeatable, team-supported process.

Michal Lasman – Leading with Empathy, Coaching & Communication

In this episode, I sat down with Michal Lasman, a product marketing leader turned executive coach, to talk about the human side of leadership—and why soft skills might be your strongest asset in today’s workplace.

Michal’s background spans B2B marketing, tech startups, and team building, but what stood out most is how much he values listening, clarity, and care.
 We talked about how marketing roles evolve, why communication is often the root of most problems, and how coaching (done right) can unlock real performance and fulfillment for individuals and entire teams.

If you’re a product marketer, people manager, or just someone who wants to lead with more intention, this episode will speak to you.

Key Takeaways

✅ Soft skills aren’t “nice to have” anymore—they’re business-critical.
✅ Clarity is a gift you give your team. Don’t underestimate how powerful aligned language can be.
✅ Most performance issues aren’t skill gaps—they’re communication gaps.
✅ Leadership isn’t a title—it’s how you show up for others.
✅ Coaching isn’t about giving advice. It’s about creating space for people to discover their own answers.
✅ Building trust as a leader starts with how you listen, not just what you say.
✅ You don’t have to “perform” leadership. The best managers are grounded, self-aware, and honest.

💬 Quote from Michal

⏱️ Episode Chapters

00:00 – Intro & Michal’s background
 03:10 – Why Michal shifted from product marketing to coaching
 06:30 – What most managers get wrong about communication
 10:00 – How language alignment impacts execution
 14:40 – Coaching vs managing: what’s the difference?
 18:10 – Giving feedback that builds trust (not fear)
 22:30 – Building leadership skills through self-awareness
 27:00 – Michal’s approach to listening in high-pressure roles
 32:20 – Lessons from coaching startup teams
 36:10 – Leadership as a practice, not a personality
 40:30 – How Michal works with clients and what he's seeing in the market
 44:00 – Advice for PMMs and team leads who want to grow into stronger leaders
 48:00 – Book recs, resources, and next steps
 51:00 – Where to connect with Michal

 🔗 Connect with Michal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michallasman/ - https://www.michallasman.com/
📩 Subscribe to the newsletter: https://ai4pmms.com/subscribe
🔗 Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanburic/

In this episode, I sat down with Barney O’Kelly, Head of Solutions & Product Marketing at Alex Partners, to talk about the career strategy behind one of his favorite mantras:
“Be seen, make friends.”

Barney believes personal branding isn’t about going viral or building a huge audience. It’s about being intentional with how you show up—inside your company, on LinkedIn, and in your network.

We talked about what visibility really means, how to shape your professional identity, and why your brand is already saying something—even if you haven’t touched your profile in years.

Key Takeaways

✅ Your job title is not your story. Who you are and how you do your work matters more than what your role is.

✅ “Be seen, make friends” is a mindset shift—visibility + relationships are the foundation of career growth.

✅ You don’t need to be loud or post daily to build a personal brand. Start with a clear profile, strong photo, and a story worth reading.

✅ Personal brand isn’t just external—it helps your colleagues understand who you are, what you care about, and where you want to go.

✅ LinkedIn is your digital first impression. Use it intentionally—even if you’re not looking for a job.

✅ The best way to grow your network isn’t to promote yourself, but to connect others and create value.

Quote from Barney
“Your job title is the least interesting thing about you. What you do, how you do it, and why—that’s where your story lives.”

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Intro & Barney’s current role
 02:00 – “Be Seen, Make Friends”: where it comes from
 05:00 – Why personal brand matters (even when you’re not job hunting)
 07:30 – LinkedIn as a runway, not a resume
 10:00 – The elements of a strong profile: photo, headline, about section
 13:00 – Finding your story and refining your positioning
 17:00 – How internal brand builds influence at work
 22:00 – The difference between self-promotion and storytelling
 27:00 – Advice for introverts: how to network without shouting
 33:00 – Helping others shape their voice
 37:00 – What Barney looks for when hiring
 42:00 – Can your brand evolve as you grow?
 47:00 – Where to start if you're building from scratch
 50:00 – Connect with Barney

 🔗 Connect with Barney: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barneyokelly/
🔗 Follow Ivan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanburic/

Crafting Stories That Close: The Art of Presentation in B2B SaaS with Mikey Mioduski

🚀 INTRO
In this episode, I sat down with Mikey Mioduski, founder and CEO of GhostRanch Communications, to dive deep into a side of product marketing that often gets overlooked: presentations.

Mikey has worked behind the scenes of some of the biggest enterprise SaaS deals—crafting decks that don’t just tell a story but drive decisions. Whether it’s an investor pitch, a big sales moment, or an internal narrative to align the org, Mikey and his team live at the intersection of storytelling, design, and strategy.

We talked about the gap between design and messaging in B2B, the hidden cost of bad decks, and why the best presentations start with narrative clarity. If you’ve ever been tasked with “just making the deck look nice,” this conversation will change the way you think about slides forever.

📌 KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Great decks are strategy tools. They aren't just visuals—they shape how your audience feels, understands, and remembers your product.
• The design vs. messaging gap is real. Most teams focus on what looks good instead of what connects—and Mikey’s work bridges that gap.
• Product marketers are presentation owners by default. But without the right toolkit or guidance, they’re often set up to fail.
• Clarity > Creativity. The best presentations aren’t flashy—they’re focused, intentional, and built around a sharp narrative.
• The internal pitch matters. Before you convince customers or investors, you need to sell the story inside your company.

💬 QUOTE FROM MIKEY
"We always say, if the presentation’s job is to move someone from point A to point B…you better be crystal clear on what A is—and where B is supposed to be."

📚 WHO THIS EPISODE IS FOR

• Product marketers who own the deck but want more confidence and impact.
• Founders trying to pitch clearly to investors or early customers.
• Designers and writers collaborating on strategic storytelling.
• Anyone tired of ugly slides and unclear messages.

⏱ CHAPTERS
0:00 – Intro
3:10 – Mikey’s path from agency work to founding GhostRanch
7:40 – What makes a presentation actually effective
13:15 – Common mistakes product marketers make with decks
20:10 – Sales decks vs. product launches vs. internal presentations
28:30 – Why great storytelling starts with knowing your Point A
34:45 – The cost of unclear internal communication
41:20 – Final advice for marketers who want to up their presentation game

🎧 Listen if you want to:

• Own your next big deck like a pro
• Understand how storytelling drives strategy
• Learn the difference between good design and smart design

What happens when you get laid off for the fifth time?
 
If you’re Hattie, you get hired again in 2 weeks—thanks to the brand you built when things were going well.

In this episode, I talk with Hattie, a seasoned product marketer, about why building a personal brand isn’t optional anymore, especially in tech.

We dive into:

• How to stay visible and valuable inside and outside your company
• What Hattie learned from being laid off 5 times
• How LinkedIn content helped her get interviews (and offers) fast
• The mindset shift PMMs need to make to grow their careers today

Whether you're a PMM, marketer, or just someone thinking, “I should probably post more on LinkedIn” — this episode is for you.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

✅ Visibility is currency — inside your company and on LinkedIn.
✅ Don’t wait for a layoff to show what you know — build your voice early.
✅ You don’t need to go viral — you just need to be consistent and helpful.
✅ Storytelling and clarity are the most underrated skills in product marketing.
✅ Personal brand ≠ ego. It’s a safety net, and a growth engine.

💬 Quote from Hattie

⏱️ Chapters

 03:10 – Hattie’s background: from startup founder to PMM
 06:45 – The reality of being laid off (multiple times)
 12:20 – Why visibility matters more than ever
 16:05 – LinkedIn strategy for PMMs (without being cringe)
 22:50 – Internal influence vs. external brand
 27:40 – How to advocate for yourself without overselling
 33:10 – Advice for PMMs early in their career
 36:45 – What Hattie would do differently
 39:30 – Wrap-up + where to follow Hattie

🔗 Resources

Connect with Hattie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hattiethepmm/
Join productmarketers.com https://www.productmarketers.com