1:07- Deep Dive- Eurovision and Contemporary Pop

21:43 Joker Out (Slovenia 2023)

39:58 Killer Notes or Killer Nodes with Telly Leung

This week we're discussing Eurovision's relationship to contemporary pop-- and specifically what it is about the rules of the world's largest song competition that complicate its relationship to the charts. We cover rules around back-up singers, auto-tune, the orchestra, and use of tracks.

21:24 Interview with Fazla (Bosnia, 1993) - All The Pain In The World, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbrJkzQ4Ik

36:20 Interview with Jeff Hiller (Somebody, Somewhere)

In this episode we look at politics at Eurovision in the modern era. First, we examine a series of conflicts in Europe, and discuss how Eurovision's increasingly dominant self-conception as "apolitical" has hampered its ability to consistently confront contemporary events. Then, we talk to Fazla, who escaped Sarajevo under siege in the dead of night-- dodging sniper fire and scaling a mountain barefoot to make it to Eurovision and deliver a very important message. Finally, we comedian Jeff Hiller (Somebody, Somewhere) examines how even Eurovision's campiest numbers can carry important messages in a game we're calling "Is That A Political Message in Your Pocket, Or Are You Just Happy To See Me?"

19:55 - Gjon's Tears talks about his 2021 Eurovision near-win

35:00 - Michael Hsu Rosen plays a game putting the people against the powerful

We dive into one of the biggest controversies among Eurovision fans: how Eurovision selects its winners. Should they rely on the expertise of industry juries or should we let the people decide? We explore the evolution of Eurovision's constantly evolving selection process, and talk about the different implications of its varying forms.

In this week's episode we explore Eurovision's language rule-- which, during the eras' it's been in effect, has required that countries only submit songs in their own national languages. Defenders of the rule claim that it's necessary to preserve the diversity of language in Eurovision, while critics point out that it's unfair to require representatives from smaller nations to perform in languages unfamiliar to the televoting audience. We talk about how the on-and-off implementation of this rule tracks with larger issues at Eurovision, including the commercialization of the festival, the balance of power between larger and smaller nations, whether globalization necessarily means loss of national identity, and whether pop music is moving into a new phase of internationalism.

#03: Pop, Power, and Politics

1:15 Deep Dive into The Political History of Eurovision

16:46 Jamala (Eurovision Winner, 2016, Representing Ukraine)

30:49 Brooke Gladstone (Peabody Award-winning host of On The Media)

These days, Eurovision claims to be “apolitical,” but that wasn’t always the case. We explore how Eurovision was founded in the aftermath of World War II, alongside political institutions like the UN, with the aim of stitching Europe back together. And we talk about how the contest dealt with ‘political’ songs over its first half century. 

Then we talk to Jamala, the Ukrainian singer who performed her Eurovision winning song about Stalin forcing Crimean Tatars out of their homes two years after Putin had done the same for her generation. 

Finally, we introduce American journalist Brooke Gladstone to the contest through a game where she guesses whether or not a song was censored for being too political. This leads to a conversation about how Eurovision might better function as a public square, particularly in a time of increasing conflict in Europe.

Links:

Jamala's Album QIRIM: https://open.spotify.com/album/4oiDxgPCPh6FZDNQFCLziC?si=q43ss1SUSvm6B6zHTXBCyQ

Jamala's Eurovision Winning Song, 1944:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS6eKEOdLQ

"Is It Political?"

Marry Me - Krista Siegfrids -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdU02F9lT2g

Ne ver, ne boysia - Tatu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRwsNuDX3Kg

We Don't Wanna Put In - Stephane & 3G - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6-7Rw4xug

1944 - Jamala - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS6eKEOdLQ

Madonna's Eurovision Performance - https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=VG3WkiL0d_U&t=0s

#02: Queer-o-Vision

18:36 - Gustaph (Eurovision Contestant, 2023, Representing Belgium)

35:18 Robin de Jesus (Three time Tony Nominated actor, Netflix’s tick…tick..BOOM!, Hulu’s Welcome to Chippendales)

There’s always been something a little queer about Eurovision. In our second episode, we explore the contest’s history with the LGBTQ+ community– and how this “family show” has, at many points in its nearly 70 year existence, been way out front on LGBT rights issues. We also discuss the moments when the contest hasn’t lived up to its image.

We then talk to Gustaph, who, as a teen, left a promising career as a popstar in Belgium because of pressure to stay in the closet– only to emerge two decades later on the world’s largest stage with a song that’s unabashedly queer. The surprise hit of Eurovision this year, it catapulted to the top ten after being placed toward the bottom in the betting markets. We discuss how Gustaph’s out and proud second act reflects a radically changed culture, and the ways in which homophobia, now subtler, seeps into both the fandom and supposedly “aesthetic” criticism. 

Tony nominated American actor Robin de Jesus then stops by to play a game of “Gay or Eurovision.” As he guesses whether a number is performed by a queer artist, or if its queer aesthetics are just part of the Eurovision brand; we talk about the evolution of queer style and queer music in a time of expanding rights and mainstreaming of the community. And that conversation sounds gay to you— you have no idea how gay it gets.

Links:

Dana International on Pinkwashing: https://www.ynetnews.com/culture/article/r1emcq8g2

Ping Pong: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/may/12/israel

Mango TV Scandal: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-44078305

The Queer Politics of Eurovision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnjtzn7ZkCs

Charlie’s Politico Article: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/20/tricky-politics-of-eurovision-during-war-00097885

Gay or Eurovision:

Give That Wolf A Banana - Subwolfer - Norway, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJjo8s3fKUM

Lasha Tumbai - Verka Serduchka - Ukraine, 2007 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjHJneVonE

Cezar - It’s My Life - Russia, 2013 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgHWFiavqjA 

Mahmood and Blanco - Brividi - Italy, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MgMhzfUmiA

Minn Hintsi Dans -Paul Oscar - Iceland, 1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-D4AAkYpsk

Guests: David Dobkin (Director: Wedding Crashers, Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga with Will Ferrell), Jerry Mitchell (Three Time Tony Award Winning Director/Choreographer, Kinky Boots, Legally Blonde)

Eurovision is the most watched song contest in the world– with viewership reaching 200 million people. It’s larger than the Superbowl! But while Eurovision songs have charted 28 times in America, 19 of those times came before 1974. This was shortly followed by a dry spell that featured only one Eurovision song on the US charts in nearly 50 years. What happened? And why, over the past three years, have we seen a resurgence– with Eurovision acts touring major venues in the states, garnering awards and press coverage, and, yes, charting? 

We explore these questions, and then talk with David Dobkin, the director of the movie responsible for the suddenly growing American interest in Eurovision– taking a look behind the scenes at the Will Ferrell vehicle that streamed #1 on Netflix, and tracing David’s personal journey of discovering and falling in love with the contest as he made the film.

Then we introduce Eurovision to Tony Award Winning Director Jerry Mitchell live on the podcast, with a game we call “Tops and Bottoms with Jerry Mitchell.” As we sip palomas in his Fire Island home, Jerry brings his expertise, honed through years of staging Broadway’s biggest musicals, to help us evaluate what makes a successful Eurovision production number.

Theme Song - Music: Tim Rosser, Lyrics: Charlie Sohne, Vocals: Magnus Riise

TIMECODES:

Deep Dive, “Why is America Waking Up to Eurovision Now?” - 1min14sec

Interview with David Dobkin, Director “Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga” - 16min39sec

Interview with Jerry Mitchell, Tony Winning Director/Choreographer of Kinky Boots and Legally Blonde - 38min54sec

LINKS:

Charlie’s Politico Article: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/20/tricky-politics-of-eurovision-during-war-00097885

Eurovision Songs on the Billboard Hot 100:

https://www.aussievision.net/post/every-eurovision-song-to-chart-on-the-us-billboard-hot-100

Success of the Eurovision Movie

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/06/28/a-new-netflix-offering-has-unseated-floor-is-lava-for-the-1-spot/?sh=6320f9734271

EUROVISION US CHART TOPPERS MENTIONED: 

Rosa Linn - Snap 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIKIgjLGf98

Duncan Laurence - Arcade

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eztx7Wr8PtE

Maneskin - Beggin’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg72z08aTXY

WATCH EUROVISION: THE STORY OF FIRE SAGA: https://www.netflix.com/title/80244088

FROM ‘TOPS AND BOTTOMS WITH JERRY MITCHELL’:

Kaarija, Cha Cha Cha (Finland 2023) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJHe-iZ5HSI

Konstrakta, In Corpore Sano (Serbia 2022) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po7HDHTBBE0

Reiley, Breaking My Heart (Denmark 2023)  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1DvuxpKkHY

Anna Bergendahl, This Is My Life (Sweden 2010) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNk6CZ77ags

Cornelia Jakobs, Hold Me Closer (Sweden 2022) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWDThAfryW4

Kate Ryan, Je T’adore (Belgium 2006) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JHnre0q3ow

Loreen, Tattoo (Sweden 2023) -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mCELuFz5I