Nap Trapped

Welcome back to part two of our 100th episode with That Sleep Doc, Dr Sujay Kansagra. He's a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University and the inventor of the Lullabee smart crib mattress. This half is where Bec finally gets to ask about a real bugbear of hers, low sleep needs, and Sally asks Sujay to diagnose her. We get into what actually decides how much sleep our babies need, why six hours of naps won't give you a twelve hour night, whether overtiredness is really a thing and how Sujay copes with the trolls in his comment section. Then it's a very slow fast five, the Lullabee versus the Snoo and the biscuit question we promised you.

Missed part one? Listen here: https://www.naptrappedpodcast.com/p/ep-100-what-is-sleep-training-that-sleep-doc

Subscribe and catch every episode at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

- Why genetics set our sleep needs and how rare truly low sleep needs are

- Why a low sleep needs label doesn't mean you can't improve sleep

- How stacking too much day sleep can look like low sleep needs

- What the science does and doesn't say about overtiredness

- Why toddlers get wired, not sleepy, when they're short on sleep

- Sujay's take on Wonder Weeks, swaddling, melatonin gummies and sleep consultants

- How the Lullabee weans itself out and why it's the polar opposite of the Snoo

CHAPTERS

00:00 Welcome back, Nap Trappers

00:20 Bec's bugbear: low sleep needs

11:16 Is overtiredness real?

21:06 Trolls and the comment section

28:57 A very slow fast five

36:18 We're a good team

ABOUT NAP TRAPPED

We're Sally Woods from The Sleep Concierge and Bec Maher from The Sleep Centre. Nap Trapped is our baby sleep podcast for tired, time-poor parents who want evidence-based answers in plain language, with realistic expectations and no empty promises.

ABOUT DR SUJAY KANSAGRA

Sujay is a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University, aka That Sleep Doc, and the inventor of the Lullabee smart crib mattress.

LINKS

Sally (The Sleep Concierge) on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/

Bec (The Sleep Centre) on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/

Part one: https://www.naptrappedpodcast.com/p/ep-100-what-is-sleep-training-that-sleep-doc

Dr Sujay Kansagra on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thatsleepdoc/

Dr Sujay Kansagra on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thatsleepdoc

Dr Sujay Kansagra website: https://linktr.ee/thatsleepdoc

Dr Sujay Kansagra on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thatsleepdoc

We made it to 100 episodes and we couldn't think of a better way to celebrate. Sally's heart was beating the whole time 'cause she's that much of a fangirl.

Our guest is the one and only Dr Sujay Kansagra, known to so many of you as That Sleep Doc. He's a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University, where he directs the child neurology sleep medicine program. Sally DM'd him on the seventh of December 2024, before Nap Trapped even existed. It was left on unread. A hundred episodes later, here we are.

In part one we rip the band aid and ask what sleep training actually is, whether sleep associations are real and how you tell a sleep association from a baby seeking connection. Sujay walks us through the learned helplessness research, attachment, night feeds and breastfeeding, parent guilt and why a well rested parent is a safer driver. He also tells us why he invented what he calls the most expensive crib mattress in the world and still says sleep training is safe and effective.

Then we get into the hard bit: the crying. How Sujay coaches families through it, the two methods he reaches for and why even he found sleep training his own kids hard. Sally shares the early rising that finally shifted once she sent her husband to the gym. Bec's famous line gets a run too. Hold steady.

If you've been fear mongered out of getting help, this one's for you.

Subscribe to Nap Trapped wherever you listen and find every episode at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

What You'll Learn:

- Why there's no formal definition of sleep training and how Sujay defines it

- How sleep cycles and normal night wakings bring sleep associations into play

- How to tell if a sleep association is actually a problem for your household

- What the 1960s learned helplessness experiments do and don't tell us about sleep trained babies

- What the research says about sleep training and attachment

- Why night feeds and breastfeeding can sit alongside sleep training

- The two types of crying and how Sujay matches a method to a family's tolerance

- Why having someone in your corner through the execution makes such a difference

Chapters:

00:00 Happy 100th, Dr. Sujay

05:01 So, What Is Sleep Training?

19:31 Busting the Sleep Training Myths

37:26 Coaching Families Through Crying

45:45 Part Two Next Week

ABOUT:

We're Sally Woods from The Sleep Concierge and Bec Maher from The Sleep Centre. Nap Trapped is our evidence-based baby sleep podcast for tired parents who want real answers without the fear mongering. Dr Sujay Kansagra is a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University and the creator of Lullabee. You'll find him on social media as That Sleep Doc.

Links:

Sally, The Sleep Concierge: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/

Bec, The Sleep Centre: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/

Dr Sujay Kansagra, That Sleep Doc: https://www.instagram.com/thatsleepdoc/

That Sleep Doc on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thatsleepdoc

That Sleep Doc on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thatsleepdoc

All of That Sleep Doc's links: https://linktr.ee/thatsleepdoc

Camp Snooze intakes: joinsnooze.com

Nap Trapped: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

We're back in the Sleep Detectives hot seat answering your real baby sleep questions — bottles, naps, toddler boundaries, split nights, daycare schedules and a very important Fiji trip. Subscribe and never miss an episode at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

What You'll Learn:

- When to drop the morning and before-lunch bottles (the exact ages)

- How to protect your toddler's sleep when a new baby arrives — and what NOT to change

- The transitional schedule explained: why it doesn't have to look textbook

- Early rising vs. actually early rising — and why we almost never make a nap drop off an early rise

- Split nights: what they actually are (and what's just a resettle going nowhere)

- How to audit a 1am wake with a sleep trained 13 month old

- The pilot analogy from Dr Becky that reframes holding a boundary with a toddler

- Why six months is prime time for sleep shaping

- Daycare schedules with fixed bottle and nap times — how to make it work

- Fiji with a five month old: do you stay on Sydney time or just get on Fiji time?

Chapters:

00:00 – Welcome to Sleep Detectives

00:33 – Dropping bottles: before-lunch and morning bottle ages

02:00 – Protecting toddler sleep when a new baby arrives

06:40 – 12 month old on transitional schedule: one and a half hour afternoon nap

11:22 – 18 month old on one nap: should I wake at two if she'll sleep till three?

12:31 – 14 month old: early waking and 20 minutes to self-settle — time for one nap?

17:18 – 1am wake with a sleep trained 13 month old — split night or resettle?

25:50 – Dr Becky's pilot analogy and holding boundaries with toddlers

31:07 – Six month old: when to start waking from naps to get on a schedule

34:20 – Eight month old in daycare five days a week: adapting nap and feeding advice

39:45 – Five month old trip to Fiji: Sydney time or Fiji time?

41:02 – Wrap up

ABOUT NAP TRAPPED:

Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two sleep consultants, two mothers, one podcast dedicated to evidence-based baby and toddler sleep support in plain language. No empty promises, no guilt, just real answers for tired parents.

Links:

Instagram Sally: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/

Instagram Bec: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/

Website: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Is the two-nap schedule wrecking your nine-month-old's sleep — or was something already brewing before you made the drop? This week we work through a real DM case study: a nine-month-old who moved to two naps and promptly hit the fan with short naps, false starts, lengthy middle-of-the-night wake windows and reactive co-sleeping creeping earlier and earlier.

We unpack why the nap drop is rarely the villain, what the clues in this mum's own message tell us about what was already in the mix, and exactly what we'd do first — including why we'd put the third nap back in (yes, really) and why early rising needs to be sorted before any nap transition happens.

We also share a Google review that genuinely made Sally tear up on mic, and Bec drops a quick winter temperature check that could explain a lot of what's creeping back into your nights right now.

Subscribe and find all our resources at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

What You'll Learn

• Why the 3-to-2 nap drop is rarely the root cause — and what usually is
• The one thing that must be sorted before any nap transition
• Why cot-side settling and early-morning co-sleeping have a shelf life
• How the eight-month sleep progression creates a perfect storm
• Why we'd bring the third nap back in strategically and what that looks like
• The room temperature check Bec wants every southern hemisphere family to do right now
• How Camp Snooze would approach this exact scenario in two weeks

Chapters

• 00:10 Welcome back and a Google review that made Sally cry
• 06:18 What is Camp Snooze?
• 07:27 The case study DM: nine-month-old, two naps, everything hits the fan
• 09:15 Was the nap drop really the problem?
• 11:23 What was already brewing before the drop
• 13:32 Our fix: bring the third nap back and here's why
• 14:20 Strengthening self-settling skills at this age
• 15:50 The co-sleeping shelf life conversation
• 17:46 How Camp Snooze would handle this over two weeks
• 20:25 Bec's winter temperature tidbit for early risers
• 22:02 What to do if you're still on three naps and have sleep issues
• 22:55 Wrap up

About Nap Trapped
Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two Australian sleep consultants keeping it real for tired parents everywhere. Evidence-based, warm and zero fluff.

Links

• Sally: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/
• Bec: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/
• Everything else: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Sally and Bec tackle four real listener cases: third nap chaos, space feeding, early rising and the Early Rising Protocol for almost-12-month-olds.

Which parent should be the one doing the settling at bedtime? Can you tag team? What happens if you tap out mid-session? Sally and Bec get into all of it — and their answer might surprise you.

Subscribe to the Nap Trapped newsletter for weekly sleep support: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

What You'll Learn

• Why Bec's default is mum first — and exactly when she flips that
• What happens when dad takes over and it's going well... then mum comes back in
• The breastfeeding-to-sleep trap: why the boobs returning changes everything
• Why one parent per resettling session is the non-negotiable rule
• The extinction burst on nights three and four — and why you don't want to swap parents right then
• What to do if you're a solo parent, a FIFO parent, or your appendix ruptures
• How Sally runs bedtime in her own house (alternating nights, electric blanket by 7.02 pm)
• Why both parents need to be able to settle, even if one is easier right now

Chapters

• 00:00 Intro & celebrating Bec's three-peat family
• 05:38 Which parent should do the sleep training?
• 06:18 Why Bec prefers mum for the first three to four nights
• 07:38 The breastfeeding-to-sleep association problem
• 09:07 When dad should take the lead instead
• 10:19 Path of least resistance — and what that actually means
• 13:59 Don't rescue the other parent mid-session
• 15:31 Can you tag team? One parent per resettling session explained
• 17:18 When dad says "I think they want you" — Bec's take
• 19:02 What if your appendix ruptures? Future-proofing both parents
• 21:43 Sally's alternating bednight system at home
• 23:09 The extinction burst and why consistency is everything on nights three and four
• 25:20 Solo parents, FIFO families and the village mentality
• 26:03 Wrap up

About Nap Trapped
Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two sleep consultants, two mums, and zero patience for vague advice. Every Wednesday they bring you evidence-based, real-talk sleep support for tired parents.

Links
Instagram — Sally: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/
Instagram — Bec: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/
Website: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Subscribe and never miss an episode: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Sleepy Ds are back. This week Sally and Bec put on their detective hats for four real listener questions — and as always, they love a side quest.

From a 14-month-old waking every two hours in a co-sleeping setup where mum feels like she's tried everything, to 8-month-old twins early rising on three naps, a 12-month-old with habitual 10 PM and 2 AM feeds, and an 18-month-old screaming the house down at bedtime — this episode covers the full spectrum of what families are actually living right now.

Sally and Bec break down why "I've tried everything" often means behavioural sleep training hasn't been tried properly or consistently, why the 14-month age group is one of the most common they see, and why zooming out is the single biggest gift a sleep consultant brings. Bec shares a real case study of a two-and-a-half-year-old whose cot was removed six months ago — and what happened when they brought it back. Sally walks through a 2-year-5-month-old who had been a great sleeper at 8–9 months and then fell apart 17 days ago.

For the twins question, they dig into corrected age, calorie distribution, dream feeds for twins specifically, and why early rising is almost never the right trigger for a nap drop. For the night weaning question, they unpack the difference between extinction and modified Ferber, dummy replug strategy, anchored feed times, and how to teach a 12-month-old to find their own dummy. For the 18-month regression, Sally explains the rule of threes, why checks can make things worse and what to do instead, and how filling an autonomy cup during the day gives you the backbone to hold a boundary at bedtime.

What You'll Learn:

- Why "tried everything" usually means one key thing hasn't been tried — or hasn't been done consistently enough

- How the 2-to-1 nap transition makes 12–15 months one of the trickiest ages Sally and Bec see

- Why early rising almost never signals it's time to drop a nap

- The difference between extinction and modified Ferber — and which fits a dummy-using 12-month-old

- How to anchor overnight feeds and organically nudge them out

- Why check-ins can escalate an 18-month-old and what to do instead

- The rule of threes for toddler habits

- How micro-choices during the day support bedtime boundary-holding

Chapters:

00:00 – Welcome back, Sleepy Ds

00:37 – Side quests, adenoids and Dirty Dancing

02:42 – Question 1: 14-month-old, waking every 2 hours, co-sleeping, tried everything

06:17 – Why "tried everything" often misses the full picture

11:08 – Bec's real case: bringing the cot back for a 2.5-year-old

15:14 – Why having a coach changes everything

19:05 – Question 2: 8-month-old twins, 3 naps, early rising at 5–6 AM

24:31 – Why we don't drop a nap to fix early rising

27:14 – Lining everything up so there's just one thing to do

30:11 – Question 3: 12-month-old, 10 PM and 2 AM feeds, night weaning plan

34:06 – Extinction vs modified Ferber, dummy strategy, anchored feeds

38:00 – How long will night weaning take? The honest answer

39:42 – Question 4: 18-month-old screaming at bedtime, checks make it worse

41:19 – The 18-month regression, autonomy cups and micro-choices

44:18 – When to reduce check-in input and lengthen intervals

46:16 – The rule of threes and when to hit reset

47:41 – Wrap up and sleep crimes ahead

ABOUT NAP TRAPPED:

Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two Australian sleep consultants who work with real families every single week. Evidence-based, warm, and refreshingly honest about how hard this actually is.

Links:

Sally – https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/

Bec – https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/

Podcast – www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Sally and Bec step away from baby sleep talk to share the five things they genuinely believe are worth the money — from kitchen appliances to travel. No affiliate codes, no sponsors (yet), just honest opinions from two tired, busy mums who have tried a lot of things.

Subscribe and join the village at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

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WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

- Why Bec swears by her Thermomix (secondhand or otherwise)

- The Ninja coffee machine that replaced Sally's daily takeaway habit

- Microblading, travel prams and the Robovac debate

- Why a cleaner or housekeeper is not a luxury — it's a sanity saver

- The case for great champagne, Ben and Jerry's Tonight Dough and gym membership

- Why booking the trip — any trip — is always worth it

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CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and episode premise

02:06 Bec's #1: The Thermomix

05:34 Sally's #1: The Ninja Coffee Machine

09:53 Bec's #2: Microblading

11:36 Sally's #2: Baby Zen Yo-Yo travel pram

14:49 Bec's #3: The Robovac

15:46 Sally's #3: A cleaner or housekeeper

21:43 Bec's #4: Great champagne

23:16 Sally's #4: Ben and Jerry's Tonight Dough

25:51 Bec's #5: Gym membership

29:38 Sally's #5: Book the trip

33:23 Wrap-up and listener question

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ABOUT NAP TRAPPED

Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two experienced baby sleep consultants, mothers and friends who tell it like it is. Evidence-based, warm and occasionally very funny.

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LINKS

Sally: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/

Bec: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/

Podcast: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Sally and Bec are back in the hot seat answering your real-life baby sleep questions live and unscripted. From managing jet lag with an eleven-month-old to knowing when to drop a night feed, trimming nap one, tackling twins in a shared room and transitioning away from patting to sleep — this episode covers a lot of ground in plain language with the science behind every answer.

Subscribe and get more at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

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WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

• How to handle a two-hour time zone difference with a baby without pre-adjusting at home

• Why creature comforts and a mini bedtime routine matter on arrival night

• When an 11.30 PM and 3 AM waking pattern at six months is habitual versus hunger

• How to confidently drop a ritualized night feed and anchor in a single overnight feed

• When to start trimming nap one for a nine-month-old on the OG two-nap schedule

• Why a short-long nap structure protects the second half of the day and reduces early rising

• How to transition from patting to sleep toward independent self-settling

• Twins at eight months sharing a room — the case for letting them coexist early

• What time nap one should be when your eleven-month-old wakes at six instead of six-thirty

• Whether staying in the room while baby self-settles causes problems down the track

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CHAPTERS

00:00 Intro — millions of great sleepers not on our schedule

00:25 Welcome to Sleep Detectives

01:19 Q1: Preparing an eleven-month-old for a two-hour time zone difference

07:08 Camp Snooze ad

07:40 Q2: When to resettle versus feed — six-month-old waking at 11.30 PM and 3 AM

12:39 Q3: When to trim nap one — nine-month-old on OG schedule

17:01 Why there is always a why behind schedule changes

21:03 Q4: Transitioning from patting to sleep to self-settling

26:43 Q5: Twins at eight months sharing a room

31:34 Q6: Nap one timing when eleven-month-old wakes at six AM

35:03 Soapbox — overtiredness is real

37:47 Q7: Does staying in the room while baby self-settles cause problems later

44:42 Wrap-up and where to find help

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ABOUT NAP TRAPPED

Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre). Between them they bring twenty years of hands-on baby and toddler sleep experience. Every episode is evidence-based, judgment-free and built for tired, time-poor parents who want real answers.

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LINKS

Sally — https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/

Bec — https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/

Camp Snooze — joinsnooze.com

More episodes — www.naptrappedpodcast.com

What if you didn't need a big sleep training plan to see real results? In this Snooze Masterclass, Sally and Bec break down a real-life message from a family member whose 11-week-old is now sleeping 11 hours overnight — after just a handful of small, low-pressure changes. No crying it out. No dramatic overhaul. Just the right foundations, applied consistently.

Subscribe to the Nap Trapped podcast and access all masterclasses inside the Snooze membership at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN
• Why a hard 7am wake time is the single most powerful anchor for your baby's day
• How swaddling for every nap works as a sleep association — and why the Miracle Blanket is a game-changer
• The difference between a baby who is awake and a baby who is just noisy overnight
• Why over-responding at night can accidentally create the very wake-ups you're trying to avoid
• How these small changes protect you heading into the four-month sleep regression
• Why it's okay — and sometimes better — to pop baby down and see what happens

CHAPTERS
00:10 Welcome to the Masterclass
01:09 Why sleep doesn't have to be all or nothing
01:48 The text message that started it all — 11 hours overnight at 11 weeks
03:30 Change 1: Hard wake at 7am and why it anchors everything
06:07 How a set wake time protects bedtime and builds circadian rhythm
07:05 Change 2: Swaddling for every nap — sleep associations and the Miracle Blanket
09:00 Change 3: Putting baby down in the bassinet for naps
10:59 Bec's experience — starting from day one with the cot
13:32 Temperament, contact naps and giving yourself permission to try
14:44 A flow chart idea for newborn settling decisions
16:35 Change 4: Letting baby flap around overnight instead of rushing in
17:10 Why first-time parents don't know what normal baby sleep sounds like
18:50 One of two things will happen — and both are okay
19:58 Why white noise is more for parents than babies
20:46 How over-responding overnight can snowball post four-month regression
22:50 Small changes add up — celebrating the wins
24:55 Working holistically: foundations first, techniques second

ABOUT NAP TRAPPED
Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two Australian paediatric sleep consultants who keep it real about baby sleep. Evidence-based, warm and refreshingly honest.

LINKS
Instagram — Sally: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/
Instagram — Bec: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/
Snooze Membership + all episodes: www.naptrappedpodcast.com