National Polygamy Advocate

National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was on "STOSSEL" on FOX Business Network (FBN) hosted by John Stossel, on March 4, 2010.   The set-up featured John Stossel seated on the right, with Mark Henkel and Gretchen Carlson seated beside each on the left. Gretchen Carlson is the renowned TV personality and co-host (at the time) of her own separate television show, "FOX & Friends."  (Note: years later, Gretchen Carlson stopped working for FOX after successfully filing sexual harrassment accusations against that employer.) The show was taped in New York before a live audience on February 24, 2010, the week before it aired.  The entire episode was about modern-day "Prohibition" involving various segments such as drugs, prostitution, polygamy, and more. (Note: a decade later, many states had legalized marijuana.)  John Stossel's topical purpose of this show's particular episode was to demonstrate how making things illegal is what causes more crime - just as America had learned from the alcohol "Prohibition" in the 1920s.   At the very end of the show, John Stossel gace an eye-opening concluding-commentary to re-iterate the episode’s entire purpose, "I'd like to think that my body belongs to me."  Gretchen Carlson represented the "opposing polygamy" perspective, focusing mostly on making the "slippery slope" argument.   This "polygamy" segment also included two un-named polygamous wives, seated in the audience.  One of the wives gave an eloquent re-statement of Mark Henkel’s frequent soundbite that polygamists are not after legalization, only de-criminalization.  Back to the main stage, as Gretchen Carlson continued to attempt the "slippery slope" argument, Mark Henkel smilingly provided succinct, friendly, and powerful soundbites to overcome her attempted argument.  Indeed, having done his preparation-homework about Gretchen Carlson herself, he was able to bring the "polygamy" segment to a jokingly and laughingly positive conclusion: he created a new soundbite on-the-fly that repeats a line that Gretchen Carlson herself had been shown in other videos over the years as repeatedly saying.  Given the invite to have "he last word," she brought the "slippery slope" argument even way out to the silliness of "not-even humans.” John Stossel interjected to correct her that this segment was talking about adults. Mark Henkel then gave the new soundbite, applying Gretchen Carlson’s own known hands-to-temple gesture , asking, "Do we have to google the meaning of consenting adults?"  She good-naturedly laughed, gave a knowing-smile to Mark Henkel, knowing that she had been gently comedy-roasted by him.  She laughed,;John Stossel laughed; everyone laughed.  (Listeners may get more details about this humorous soundbite at this online , "Marry Non-Humans? Funny TV Sound-bite Flattens Slippery Slope.")  This interview was one of the most positive and friendly interviews that Mark Henkel had been fortunate to give.

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National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was interviewed for "Weekend America" on NPR, National Public Radio, Reporter Alex Cohen, on February 27, 2006.  This hour-long interview occurred two weeks before the premiere of HBO’s fictional TV series, "Big Love." The reporter was looking to meet and spend time with a polygamous family.  She sought to tape record numerous interactions in order to "put a human face on polygamy."   Mark Henkel informed that, as friendly, positive, and polite as the reporter was in asking for this, the request was still close to what he calls a "circus act request."  With that understood, he and she continued to see how they might find a way to do something for her show – especially because this was for a radio program.  Knowing that the coming "Big Love" news cycle would generate massive publicity for months, the reporter was hoping to complete this project before that pending news cycle, with an intended airdate of March 11, 2006.  The accelerated timeline of this project prevented it from being achieved.  Nevertheless, this initial interview reveals the challenges posed for families in Unrelated Consenting Adult Polygamy (UCAP) in dealing with overall media that generally focuses more on seeking to put families on display rather than let the polygamy movement directly explain the issues affecting polygamists.  The reporter was professional, honest, and sympathetic toward polygamists regarding how bad other media can be, and she certainly conducted herself with compassion.  Hereby being archived for history, this important interview educates listeners of the hardships and issues of media "circus act requests" - whether by honest reporters as this individual one here or by more outright dishonest manufactured news corporations.

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National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was interviewed for "48 Hours" on CBS News, Producer Sarah Prior, on May 19, 2008, preparing a pending episode that later aired on May 27, 2008. This occurred during the news cycle that followed the April 3rd FBI raid in Texas of the FLDS, the Mormon-based cult led by criminal Warren Jeffs. During that news cycle, the manufactured news outlets decidedly chose to focus on that one cult's criminal activities involving underage marriage, pretending and purporting that Jeffs' crimes are "what polygamy is about." No matter how many times that Mark Henkel appeared in media to condemn such things as not being representative of UCAP, Unrelated Consenting Adult Polygamy, numerous outlets in the corporate press mostly refused to report the actual truth; making-up and purporting news was more applied than reporting facts and whole context. Mark Henkel even identified such outlets as the "child-s*x media" because of their craven obsession with the false misrepresentation. The content of this interview between the producer and Mark Henkel was, itself, excellent; the producer understood the importance and actuality of the education he provided to her; yet, the network still chose to ignore all that and to otherwise focus only on the criminals of the Mormon-based FLDS in its later segment titled,"Polygamy - World Apart."  This podcast episode ends with an attempted subsequent phonecall to the producer's voicemail box, as she never called back ever again. The FLDS and their leader Warren Jeffs were indeed involved in real crimes that were always, adamantly, and loudly opposed by the National Polygamy Rights Movement for Consenting Adults. The startling difference from this interview and the resulting segment wholly demonstrates how disconnected from facts and disconnected from the real story that the manufactured news corporations really are in their manufacturing of "fake news"  - and it explains why Mark Henkel called such "reports" as "News Purports."  Nevertheless, now archived for history, the this interview contains many important and educational soundbites.

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National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was interviewed for National Geographic Television, by Associate Producer Dana Kemp, on August 24, 2003, preparing to pitch for a segment on a developing episode for a second season of one of their programs. Six weeks before this interview, the U.S. Supreme Court had decided the Lawrence v. Texas decision of June 26, 2003. This interview was a follow-up to the first interview that been conducted two weeks previously on July 24, 2003. (That first interview used to be available for sale before it was later made freely available on Episode 43 of this podcast. With this new episode, this second interview is released for the very first time.) This 64-minute interview centered around how the producer could best pitch the segment to the higher-ups at National Geographic Television channel.  She asked excellent questions, completely understood the importance of the standard of Love-not-Force, and was definitely sympathetic to the issues of persecution for Christian Polygamy and UCAP (Unrelated Consenting Adult Polygamy). She even recognized how jealousy is a cultural, social indoctrination of expectation. Mark Henkel discussed how some of the families with the TruthBearer.org organization (he founded) could be willing to participate under some serious privacy protections.  Listeners will find this positively conducted interview to be quite educational.

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National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was on HLN Special Report with Vinnie Politan, with Ryan Smith as fill-in host, on Headline News TV network, on July 27, 2011.   After being on Vinnie Politan's show twice the week before (with that main host himself), Mark Henkel appeared again the then-next week with a different fill-on host. As opening arguments  in the FLDS' Warren Jeffs trial were set to begin within less than 24 hours of this segment’s broadcast, the fill-in host had brought Mark Henkel onto the show again to join a panel of another slate of three different guests.  (Jeffs was found guilty the next month, August 2011, to serve a sentence of life imprisonment plus 20 years).  The segment focused on sensationalizing the so-called "lost boys" that the FLDS (Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints) reportedly would abandon. The anti-polygamists tried to allege that that cruelty to adolescent boys is supposedly “what happens in polygamy” because of the so-called "mathematics." This segment was extremely sensationalistic, as even the host, at one point, compared the situation to "terrorist organizations." Fortunately, the fill-in host did positively identify that Mark Henkel was not connected to the FLDS, Warren Jeffs, or any of the crimes. Mark Henkel then presented a vehemently strong response that normal, healthy, Unrelated Consenting Adult Polygamy (UCAP) families around the country, not living in isolated sects, do not participate in underage marriage with girls and do not abandon boys as that horrendous idea of alleged “lost boys.” The third guest to speak was a professional anti-polygamist-for-profit who was so caught up in her propaganda to try to smear all polygamy that she did not even realize that she even undercut the statement of the second person who was not hostile to that anti-polygamist. Anyway, this segment reveals how the manufactured news corporations will sensationalize a story. It also demonstrates how necessary it is to have such an effective and strong positive polygamy advocate’s voice to be included in the segment discussion as well.

National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel appeared on Pat Robertson's show, "The 700 Club," on the Christian Broadcasting Network, CBN, on August 16, 2005. For history archiving purposes, Mark Henkel's taped appearance on this specific segment helped "made history." Namely, for the first time in history, a renowned Christian organization (The 700 Club), as led by a worldwide-known Christian leader (Pat Robertson), had publicly acknowledged "Christian Polygamy" as "evangelical Christians" on TV and even said the exact words of "Christian Polygamy" and "Christian polygamists." The two words "Christian" and "Polygamy" were no longer a supposed "contradiction in terms." History had been made indeed. For this segment, Mark Henkel had been previously "interviewed on tape" by a professional woman named Kim Bonney. To hear her lengthy interview with Mark Henkel, listeners will want to hear Episode 99 of this podcast, posted February 5, 2020. The final segment that aired on August 16, 2006  (despite a number of times being "bumped" from previously scheduled dates to air) was instead reported by David Brody. The scope of this segment unfortunately intended to scare its major Christian audience with the notion that the then-growing efforts to legalize same sex marriage would supposedly result in legalized group marriage, polyamory, and polygamy too. The premise - and especially the early part of the segment - initially focused more on salacious notions pertaining to group marriage and polyamory in order to indeed "scare" the network's Christian audience. The report included statements from many then-big names such as Stanley Kurtz ("conservative" lecturer and pundit), Maggie Gallagher (president of the Institute for Marriage and Public Policy), and David Frum (albeit famous among conservatives as a "faux conservative") - all to speak against such supposed "changes to marriage." Contrary to their opinions, the report also included statements from Elizabeth Emens (former University of Chicago Law School Professor), an unnamed then-President of the American Civil Liberties Union (claiming that the ACLU would "defend polygamy" – which never really happened as the ACLU ultimately remained silent regarding polygamy in the following decade to come), Robin Trask (editor for the polyamory magazine, Loving More), and of course, the one and only advocate for actual polygamy on the segment, Mark Henkel (Founder of the TruthBearer.org Organization for Christian Polygamy). As the concluding voice to make the final argument for polygamy, Mark Henkel was able to make a number of quick yet important soundbites in the segment, including his "circular argument of law and sin" soundbite. Most importantly, the reporter, in the end, genuinely treated the concept of Christian Polygamy itself separately yet surprisingly fairly. The reporter kindly and accurately introduced Mark Henkel with the following QUOTE that made history: "Polygamy has a range of defenders including some evangelical Christians. Mark Henkel is the founder of the Christian Polygamy organization, TruthBearer. Christian polygamists believe husbands are called to love their wives as Christ loves the churches." That introduction is repeated and looped a couple of times at the end of this podcast to demonstrate its profound history-making significance. Yes, with this segment, history had been made on August 16, 2005.

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National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was on HLN Special Report with Vinnie Politan, on Headline News TV network, on July 22, 2011. The second interview that week, the host had brought Mark Henkel onto the show again to join a panel of three other guests. They were there to discuss the next then-pending trial of Warren Jeffs set to begin on the following Monday. (Jeffs was found guilty the next month, August 2011, to serve a sentence of life imprisonment plus 20 years). All the panelists agreed that Jeffs was a criminal for the underage rape charges, and Mark Henkel clarified that Jeffs was always opposed by the National Polygamy Rights Movement for Consenting Adults. In this interview, Mark Henkel repeated the observation (from the day before) of how Warren Jeffs' court trial that Summer was being tried in "Tom Green County" of Texas - 10 years after Mark Henkel had previously been out in in the media speaking out against another underage criminal named, Tom Green.

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National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was interviewed by Jennifer Dobner, for the Associated Press (the AP Newswire). **This is a MUST-HEAR Inteview***. On April 3, 2008, law enforcement raided the Eldorado Texas compound of the Mormon-based FLDS, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. For weeks, this raid was the ongoing "big story" for news organizations around the world. As most of those media outlets were routinely yet falsely labelling its leader, the criminal Warren Jeffs, as a supposed "polygamist leader," Mark Henkel had been working feverishly to clarify that Warren Jeffs was no such "polygamous leader" at all, to declare that Jeffs was loudly opposed by the National Polygamy Rights Movement for Consenting Adults, and to completely differentiate that UCAP, Unrelated Consenting Adult Polygamy, has nothing to do with such cultic actions or crimes. The AP reporter had interviewed Mark Henkel several times over the previous years, and she was glad to conduct this interview as well. Giving numerous important soundbites, Mark Henkel also revealed how most of the media only manufacture news rather than report it.  He stated how he plans to write his memoirs for archving historyas an expose of how irresponsible and anti-truth that the "manufactured news outlets" really are and how they so abused the polygamy movement this way. After detailing the "Polygamy Rights Win-Win Solution" to end the marriage debate, and after demonstrating how he is able to persuade Conservatives and Christians by using their own arguments (where Liberals cannot so persuade), Mark Henkel explained, "Liberals might not like hearing the arguments I make, but what I say to them is, BE QUIET! Or, one could be less polite and say, Shut Up! Stop arguing. Listen to this. The only way we're going to persuade Conservatives is with conservative arguments. So, BE QUIET. Let me explain it to them." The reporter interjected, "Liberals are not going to lose if they just keep their mouths shut." Mark Henkel replied, "Exactly!" That was just one of the numerous positive exchanges in this interview. As the reporter wrapped up the interview, she was clearly satisfied with the content she needed from it, saying, "This is all good stuff!"

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National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel discussed the breach of agreement by and with Producer Aarne Heikkila and the TODAY Show on NBC-TV, on March 22, 2006, three days after the show aired a report by Lester Holt, on March 19, 2006.   Prior to that broadcast, Mark Henkel and the producer had conducted extensive negotiation together as conditions for producing the segment.  (Three of those negotiation discussions have been previously posted to this podcast.)  The polygamous family from the TruthBearer.org organization (which Henkel founded) had only agreed to be interviewed for the show with specific conditions, one of which being that the report would not be “all about” them, but centered around Mark Henkel, his organization, and the overall movement for UCAP, Unrelated Consenting Adult Polygamy.  Mark Henkel had made these conditions mandatory due to the actions of another show, “Dateline,” on NBC-TV, that had previously mispresented polygamy horribly.  The resulting TODAY Show segment that aired on March 19, 2006, still made the report solely about the family.  That action was a direct and blatant breach of the agreement.  Only because it as true that the aired-segment did at least treat the family positively, Mark Henkel still willingly indicated that the way to begin to heal that breach and to begin to restore trust with NBC-TV would be for them to work together and to thereby do a second report as originally agreed.  The producer said that he needed a couple days to see what other options they could do.  Nothing else was ever again produced or aired.  After allowing 15 years to pass since this breach occurred, and because NBC-TV has made no correction, healing, or even effort over this period of 15 years, this discussion is now being made public for the archives of history (as directly authorized to Mark Henkel by the agreement for him to record and air any of such discussions). It also reveals why most of (what Mark Henkel calls) "circus act requests" made by other corporate media would later be denied, in terms of protecting families from this happening again.  This breach, therefore, established the precedent that any media claiming to be “seeking families” would have to first abide and follow Mark Henkel's terms and conditions.

National Polygamy Advocate ™ Mark Henkel was on the TODAY Show on NBC-TV, for a report by Lester Holt, on March 19, 2006. As per the many discussions beforehand, this report was supposed to be about Mark Henkel, his TruthBearer.org organization, and the national polygamy rights movement. In the end, NBC instead made the report "all about" a polygamous family. While that family was from Mark Henkel's organization, there was no mention in the report of any such connection. Mark Henkel's appearance lasts no longer than 12 seconds. Lester Holt states, "As many as 100,000 Americans are believed to be living in plural marriages. But now with the buzz over HBO's hit series, 'Big Love,' and a growing political acceptance of same sex unions, polygamy activists are emerging, some calling it 'the next civil rights battle,' and the battle lines are being drawn." It then cuts to tape, listing "Mark Henkel, Founder, TruthBearer.org." Mark Henkel explains, "We're saying, get government out of the business of defining marriage altogether. And basically, let consenting adults choose their own contractual arrangements." Overall, the report presents itself kindly toward the family itself (and toward UCAP, Unrelated Consenting Adult Polygamy, in general), even though the family did not agree to be the main focus/subject. The segment also reports that the family was Christian, not connected to anything with Mormonism. After the segment ends, Lester Holt speaks (then-live) with Campbell Brown. She says to him, "And they seem like normal, like the person you'd run into in the grocery store." Lester Holt replies, "Very nice people, and you would never raise an eyebrow if you met them anywhere." She closes, saying, "All right. Much to think about."  Notwithstanding that the segment was certainly kind, the breach of the agreement paved the way for tougher demands with all other media over the years afterward. This result became a strong lesson-learned. Breach notwithstanding, the report was positively presented; and it does indeed leave the viewer/listener with much to think about indeed.

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