Natural Genius: Deep Conversations. Meaningful Lives.

Jamie Butemeyer works at the intersection of expression and belonging: the ways we learn to edit, perform and suppress parts of ourselves to stay connected, liked and safe.

Her path began in theatre, dance and pageants, where being impressive became tied to love and belonging. Later came New York auditions, yoga, Aspen, organising, coaching and The School of Expression. 

Across the different forms, the question underneath stayed similar: what happens when we stop performing our way through life and let more of who we are be seen?

Jamie is a transformational leadership coach working with founders, creatives and conscious leaders, bringing together embodiment and creative expression.

Jamie and Sam move from Jamie's four-day “Love Fest” wedding into visibility, masks, belonging and becoming less offendable. Jamie makes an important distinction: becoming unoffendable isn’t pretending nothing hurts. It begins with learning to feel what hurts instead of intellectualising, bypassing or distracting ourselves away from it.

They also talk about attention in an age of short-form content: protecting the first hour of the day, rebuilding the ability to sit with long-form ideas, and “create before you consume”. Closing out with seasonal living, shapeshifting and integration.

Thank you to the natural genius of Marisa Hallsted for introducing us.

Content note:
This conversation includes discussion of psychedelics, psychedelic healing and integration. Laws and clinical frameworks vary by location. This is general information only, not medical or legal advice, or a recommendation to use any substance or treatment.

What you’ll hear:

•  Belonging and the versions of ourselves we show the world 
•  Being seen, visibility and dropping the masks 
•  Why becoming “unoffendable” begins with feeling what hurts 
•  Distraction, short-form content and protecting the first hour of the day 
•  “Create before you consume” and rebuilding long-form attention 
•  Shapeshifting with the seasons and making space for integration 

Guest links:

•  Jamie Butemeyer and The School of Expression: https://www.jamiebutemeyer.com/theschoolofexpression
•  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamiebutemeyer/
•  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-butemeyer-995327170/
•  Express to Expand free workbook: https://golden-paper-36209.myflodesk.com/wws8vm5npw
•  Jamie and Skippy's Love Fest wedding: https://www.instagram.com/reels/DbozSmQPXx5/

Conversation mentions:

• Marisa Hallsted, Natural Genius #62: https://youtu.be/5cgJeJxSQ4E
• “Becoming unoffendable” - Natalie Hummel: https://nataliehummelcoaching.com/
• Zack Kravits: https://www.instagram.com/zackkravits
•  Authentic Living, Lindsay Patterson + Beth Mobilian: https://www.lindsayandbeth.com/aspen-program
•  Walter and Elizabeth Paepcke / Aspen Institute: https://www.aspeninstitute.org/about/our-history-and-heritage/

Chapters:
00:12 Marisa, friendship and the Love Fest wedding
04:28 Visibility, expression and being seen
10:22 Becoming unoffendable by feeling what hurts
13:45 Distraction, long-form attention and “create before you consume”
20:33 Theatre, yoga, Aspen and the road into coaching
27:04 Belonging, self-expression and the freedom to stop fitting in
32:16 Shapeshifting with the seasons, integration and aliveness

Explore further:
Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au

Credits:
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Aspen, 19 August 2026.
Produced at the Kiama office, 19 August - 24 September 2026.

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

Graeme Boden has built a life of significant professional achievement, deep family commitment and sustained contribution to others.

Across a long career in finance, resources, corporate planning and governance, Graeme worked with BHP, Bougainville Copper, major US resources companies, Sons of Gwalia and numerous ASX-listed and emerging businesses. In his twenties he joined BHP’s Ok Tedi copper-gold project team in Papua New Guinea, working across an international feasibility team and gaining unusual exposure to senior executives and major global companies early in his career.  

There is a lovely story from his late twenties. Sitting in the Morgan Guaranty boardroom in New York with BHP’s Treasurer, Graeme was asked about an Australian mining project and gave a view that went against conventional wisdom. Afterwards, the Treasurer told him he was proud of how Graeme had represented BHP. Graeme tells the story humbly, acknowledging this as part of an extraordinary early education in competence, contribution and learning to think across disciplines. 

Family sat at the centre of it all.

Graeme’s parents were profound role models. Their influence carried into Graeme’s own marriages, children and grandchildren, decades of involvement in his children’s schools and community, helping establish the Learning and Attentional Disorders Society of WA when ADHD was still poorly understood, and an ongoing commitment to philanthropy and volunteering. 

When his children were benefiting from what other people had built before them, Graeme felt it was his turn to “carry the baton”. He describes contribution as his thanks for what had gone before and his contribution to what would come after. 

Now retired, Graeme continues to contribute through organisations including Community First Development, ANZGITA and Foodbank WA, alongside supporting a wide range of charities. A recurring instinct throughout the conversation is looking out for people who have hit difficult times through no fault of their own. 

Sam knows Graeme as Uncle G, a gentleman she admires who's magnanimous, humble, generous and kind.

This conversation moves through work, family, leadership, love, volunteering, grandchildren, travel, Australian red wine and what Graeme calls the ordinary “sweetness of life.”

Asked how he built a meaningful life, Graeme offers something refreshingly simple. He hasn’t had a grand plan. Family has remained at the centre.

What you’ll hear:
• Building professional confidence at BHP and on the Ok Tedi project
• Working internationally and learning alongside highly capable people
• Leadership, decision-making and contributing beyond your own expertise
• Why family remained central throughout Graeme’s career
• Helping establish one of WA’s early organisations supporting families affected by ADHD
• “Carrying the baton” for the people who come after us
• Philanthropy, volunteering and helping people doing it tough
• Parents as role models for love, respect and gentlemanly conduct
• Children, grandchildren and the sweetness of ordinary family life
• A meaningful life that emerged without a grand plan

Guest links:
• Graeme Boden: https://www.linkedin.com/in/graeme-boden-11149611/

Conversation mentions:
• ADHD WA: https://www.adhdwa.org/
• Australia and New Zealand Gastroenterology International Training Association (ANZGITA): https://www.anzgita.org/
• Australian Doctors for Africa: https://ausdocafrica.org/
• Community First Development: https://communityfirstdevelopment.org.au/
• Australian Wildlife Conservancy: https://www.australianwildlife.org/
• The Smith Family: https://www.thesmithfamily.com.au
• MacKillop Family Services: https://www.mackillop.org.au/
• Kids First Australia: https://www.kidsfirstaustralia.org.au/
• The Salvation Army: https://www.salvationarmy.org.au/
• Foodbank WA: https://www.foodbank.org.au/WA/

Chapters:
00:00 Welcome to Graeme Boden
03:34 His father, BHP and the early career years
06:18 Confidence, international boardrooms and representing BHP
11:13 Leadership, ADHD WA and carrying the baton
14:18 Volunteering, philanthropy and helping others
17:01 Parents, role models and family legacy
21:19 Fatherhood, grandchildren and the sweetness of life
23:53 Family at the centre, without a grand plan
28:41 Contribution, Foodbank, travel and enjoying life

Explore further:
Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam Bell: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387

Subscribe for more long-form conversations with thoughtful leaders, founders, creatives and changemakers across business, human intelligence, AI, wellbeing and meaningful lives.

Credits:
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Burswood, Perth, 14 August 2026.
Produced at the Kiama office, 14 August - 15 September 2026.

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

Wendy Fyfe has spent much of her career helping people see more possibility in themselves, their work and each other.

In this episode, Sam Bell speaks with her long-time friend, strategist, facilitator and executive coach Wendy Fyfe about curiosity, connection, limiting beliefs and the small shifts that can change what feels possible.

Wendy has spent decades working with executives, senior leaders and organisations through leadership development, culture and large-scale change, including Director-level work at Deloitte and executive coaching across complex transformations. Her approach is deeply human: suspend assumption, understand the person and their map of the world, build connection first, then work with what can change.

The conversation moves from Wendy’s solo travels through South America to coaching, parenting, community, workshops and skiing. She reflects on how overthinking can stop us acting, why discomfort often accompanies growth, and how changing one belief, one action or one conversation can shift a trajectory.

There is plenty of Wendy in this one too: jumping into a freezing pool fully clothed with her daughters, “Hoover energy” versus “groover energy”, deliberate playfulness at work, volunteering, chairlift conversations and the joy of feeling fully alive on skis.

What you’ll hear:

•  Suspending assumptions and staying open to what another person can teach you 
•  How old beliefs can constrain capability, confidence and possibility 
•  Why curiosity can change the way we approach difficult relationships 
•  Choosing spontaneity, mischief and joy in busy adult life 
•  The energy we bring into a room, and why playfulness can deepen connection 
•  Building relationship and connection before trying to create change 
•  Small shifts, discomfort and the internal dialogue that shapes what we do next 

Guest links:

•  Wendy Fyfe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendy-fyfe/
•  Wendy Fyfe Consulting: https://wendyfyfe.com/

Wendy recommends:

• The Teenage Brain by Frances E. Jensen — a compelling read for parents of teenagers and anyone interested in adolescent brain development, decision-making, risk-taking, memory and addiction:
  https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-au/products/teenage-brain-book-frances-e-jensen-9780062067852
• Susan David, The Gift and Power of Emotional Courage — one of Wendy’s favourite TED Talks, especially the idea of emotions as a rich source of data rather than a trigger for immediate action:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDQ1Mi5I4rg

Chapters:
00:12 Openness, assumptions and seeing possibility
05:49 South America, fear and overthinking
15:06 Curiosity and changing what you believe is possible
19:34 Mischief, joy and “Hoover” versus “groover” energy
29:18 Community, connection and how change really happens
32:38 Skiing, aliveness and trusting the edge
35:54 Small shifts, discomfort and changing the trajectory

Explore further:
Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits:
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Geelong, 26 May, 2026.
Produced at the Kiama office, 26 May - 14 September, 2026.

 Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

What becomes possible when we become still enough to notice more of what is already available within us, between us and around us?

Peter Spence returns to Natural Genius, moving beyond the high-performance foundations of his first episode into stillness, connection, human potential and quantum thinking.

Pete has spent decades across Australian cricket and elite sport, including the NSW Cricket Association, Australian Cricket Board, AIS Cricket Academy and the Victorian Institute of Sport. He now works as a Sports & Performance Consultant.

Beginning with Pete’s recent Peace of Mind retreat with Brahma Kumaris, the conversation moves through soul consciousness, rest and recovery, Danah Zohar and Ian Marshall “dreaming each other’s dreams”, different cultural and spiritual perspectives, non-locality, breathwork, connection to land and Ralph Van Gelder singing to a spring in Mongolia.

The conversation is exploratory and throughout, Pete returns to a question that has shaped his work for decades: how might people retain openness and access more of what they are capable of?

What you’ll hear:
• Why stillness and recovery matter for performance and human potential
• Moving beyond a purely mechanical worldview
• Ideas that emerge between people, not only within individuals
• What different cultural and spiritual perspectives can open in our thinking
• Non-locality, consciousness and Pete’s curiosity about quantum ideas
• Shamanism and connection to the land
• Breathwork, mindfulness and becoming more receptive

Guest links:
• Peter Spence: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-spence-6021016/
• Pete’s first Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/iNLPdw0oZls
 

Conversation mentions:
• Brahma Kumaris: https://brahmakumaris.org.au
• 100 Days of Peace 2026: http://www.tiny.cc/100Days2026
• Calm in the City: https://www.calminthecity.org.au/
• Kalvinder Shields: https://sites.google.com/site/kalvindershields/
• Pete Williams’ Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/NX2G0g4asXc
• Serana Hunt-Hughes’ Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/7CeCpefExpY
• Margaret Wheatley / Berkana: https://www.margaretwheatley.com/ | https://www.berkana.org/
• Margaret Wheatley: Leadership and the New Science; A Simpler Way; Finding Our Way; Turning to One Another
• Danah Zohar: https://danahzohar.com
• Danah Zohar: The Quantum Self; The Quantum Society; SQ: Spiritual Intelligence; The Quantum Leader; Zero Distance
• David Jones: https://davidjonesdrums.com/
• Carmen Warrington: https://www.carmenwarrington.com/
• Barney Mercer - breathwork facilitator Sam mentions: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barney-mercer-495863268/
• The Art of Breathing: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58958038-the-art-of-breathing
• Deeper Mindfulness: https://franticworld.com/deeper-mindfulness/
• Catherine Freeman: https://www.instagram.com/cathyfreeman/

Chapters:
00:00 Welcome back and the Peace of Mind retreat
05:27 Human potential and “dreaming each other’s dreams”
12:48 Rest, recovery and moving beyond the mechanical worldview
20:23 Time, culture and different ways of knowing
29:39 Non-locality, connection and a Mongolian spring
34:06 Openness, consciousness and experiences beyond the conventional
37:46 Breathwork, mindfulness and connection to the whole

Explore further:
Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits:
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Phillip Island, 16 June, 2026.
Produced at the Kiama office, 16 June - 10 September, 2026.

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

Leave enough room to notice what you didn’t plan for.

Six months after Hamish Curry’s first Natural Genius conversation, we catch up after his nearly two months of travel through Japan and the US. The stories begin with road trips, Hamish's adult children, the all-important snacks, unexpected festivals and places discovered simply because they sounded interesting. They open into a bigger question: what happens when we leave enough space for experience and discovery?

Hamish is General Manager at Cool.org and has spent over three decades across schools, libraries and education organisations in Australia and internationally, including the State Library of Victoria, NoTosh and the Asia Education Foundation at the University of Melbourne.

After speaking at the Harvard Graduate School of Education’s Spring Learning Summit, Hamish reflects on students pushing back on default AI use, the invisible ways AI already influences decisions, and why education needs discernment rather than simply better prompting.

We move through “baby adults”, risk, philosophy, the arts, real-world learning, overstimulation, purpose and the value of slowing down enough to think, wonder and ask better questions. And back to one of Hamish’s enduring themes: serendipity tends to appear when we make room for it.

What you’ll hear:
• Why the memorable parts of travel are often the unplanned ones
• “Baby adults”, risk and getting feedback from the world
• University students wanting space to think before using AI
• The invisible AI already shaping health, banking, transport and shopping
• Why Hamish would put philosophy and the arts back into education
• Learning through real experience rather than simply absorbing information
• Making room in work and life for ideas, adventure and serendipity

Guest links:
• Hamish Curry: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamishcurry
• Attention to Detail: https://hamishcurry.com/2026/07/03/attention-to-detail/
• Cool.org: https://cool.org/
• Hamish’s first Natural Genius episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfNMrg6aMfg

Conversation mentions:
• Harvard Graduate School of Education / Next Level Lab Learning Summit: https://nextlevellab.gse.harvard.edu/homepage/spring-convening/
• Liz Bull: https://www.instagram.com/lizzycphoto
• Mark Lobo: https://www.marklobo.com.au/
• Sam Neill’s chickens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2I2_GBawWI

Chapters:
04:30 Japan, adult children and leaving room for serendipity
10:22 “Baby adults”, risk and learning from the world
19:49 Harvard and changing approaches to learning
24:03 Students pushing back on AI and its invisible influence
28:37 Philosophy, the arts and asking better questions
33:15 Slowing education down and learning through experience
36:04 Making space for wider thinking, random walks and adventure

Explore further:
Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits:
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Box Hill, 17 July, 2026.
Produced at the Kiama office, 17 July - 8 September, 2026.

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

In this second Natural Genius conversation, Sam Bell and Tina Köstler go deeper into women’s sexuality, menstruation, embodied consent, pleasure and women speaking openly with other women.

Tina is an intimacy and embodiment coach, tantra facilitator and founder of TinaKoestler.com. After years in high-performance startup environments, including senior operations roles at Choco, she moved into work centred on embodiment, intimacy and the body. She now works with individual clients and women’s circles.

The conversation begins with Tina’s years of recurring vaginal yeast infections and what changed when she started paying closer attention to her body. From there, we move through menstruation, rites of passage, The Red Tent, embodied yeses and nos, self-pleasure, relationships, women at work and the collective feminine.

We finish somewhere unexpected: if AI takes on more cognitive work, could humans create more room for creativity, connection and being?

Content note:
This episode contains adult discussion of sexuality, menstruation, vaginal health, penetration, self-pleasure, polyamory and personal psychedelic experience. Tina shares personal experience and tantra/embodiment perspectives. Some perspectives discussed are experiential and are not presented as established medical claims. This episode is for general information only and is not medical or sexual-health advice. Please seek appropriately qualified professional advice for health concerns. Laws relating to psychedelics vary by location.

What you’ll hear:
• Recurring yeast infections and listening more closely to the body
• Menstruation, rites of passage, The Red Tent and women gathering with women
• Embodied yeses and nos, boundaries, pleasure and moving beyond performance
• Polyamory, relationships and Tina’s changing understanding of her desires
• Periods, clothing, safety and feminine expression at work
• Moving from startup operations into client work and women’s circles
• AI, productivity and more room for creativity and being

Guest links:
• Tina Köstler: https://tinakoestler.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-k%C3%B6stler-8a025880/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tina.koestler
• Tina’s first Natural Genius conversation: https://youtu.be/l66cgSLnzVU

Conversation mentions:
• The Red Tent by Anita Diamant: https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/anita-diamant/the-red-tent/9781529086348
• David Stancel’s Natural Genius: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yPy6_tYHYY

Chapters:
00:00 Feminine eros, pleasure and embodied yes/no
05:01 Yeast infections and listening to the body
09:04 The Red Tent, women’s circles and the collective feminine
12:27 Menstruation, rites of passage, womb, voice and intuition
18:24 Pleasure, boundaries and moving beyond performance
22:34 Sexuality, polyamory and learning through the body
34:17 Menstruation at work, feminine expression and safety
42:16 AI, productivity and more space for creativity and being

Explore further:
Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits:
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Bratislava, Slovakia, 21 May, 2026.
Produced at the Kiama office, 21 May - 5 September, 2026.
Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

Sometimes the clearest signal is short.

Julie Jungalwala describes intuition as a quiet, non-insistent invitation. She describes today’s technological environment as “compression”, making space to hear your own signal a more deliberate practice.

Julie is a Harvard instructor in Professional & Executive Development, author, workshop leader and executive coach. Through Human Possibility and the Terrain of Transition™, she helps people navigate change and move towards work that feels genuinely theirs. She is writing her second book, The Work You Were Made For: How to find it, do it, and live it, publishing in 2027.

Her favourite coaching question is simple: “What do you want?” Julie says around 80% of people pause. Asking from first principles can feel both exhilarating and terrifying.

The conversation moves through self-location, seasons of transition, intuition and the appeal of certainty, then into a practical way forward: follow curiosity, run “safe-to-fail experiments” and make choices. Small moves let us learn without demanding the whole answer first.

Julie’s career moved from developing individual skills into systems thinking after realising “the environment wins every time”, then back towards the individual after watching people come alive doing work uniquely theirs. Her question now: what is my work to do amid this?

What you’ll hear

• “What do you want?” and asking from first principles
• The Terrain of Transition™ and locating yourself in change
• Northern Ireland, roots, safety and privilege
• Intuition, technological “compression” and Julie’s three-to-five-word signal
• Going slow to go fast and trusting your own internal system
• Safe-to-fail experiments, curiosity and embodied choice
• Systems thinking and work that brings people alive

Guest links

• Julie Jungalwala: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliejungalwala/
• Human Possibility: https://www.humanpossibility.com/
• The Knowledge Era Is Ending. Here’s What’s Replacing It [Julie's post that re-connected Sam and Julie]: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/knowledge-era-ending-heres-whats-replacing-julie-jungalwala-ed-m--rkg9e/
• Institute for the Future of Learning: https://www.the-ifl.org/
• The Human Side of Changing Education: https://www.the-ifl.org/book
• Terrain of Transition™ Reflection Tool: https://tot.humanpossibility.com/

Conversation mentions

• Clare and David Hieatt and The DO Lectures: https://thedolectures.com/info/
• Naomi Dyer-Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-dyer/
• Hamish Curry’s Natural Genius: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfNMrg6aMfg
• Raj / Series A Photography: https://www.seriesaphotography.com/about/
• Sara Walshe: https://www.upswellcoaching.com/sara
• Maggie Doyne’s Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/k-CVbUT1O7E
• Tim Ferriss: https://tim.blog/
• Annie Parker’s Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/mGH_mAgcZfc
• Serana Hunt-Hughes’s Natural Genius: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CeCpefExpY
• SXSW EDU: https://sxswedu.com/

Chapters

00:13 Reconnecting through The DO Lectures and Julie’s work
07:29 “What do you want?” and the developmental edge
10:19 Terrain of Transition™ and seasons of change
11:42 Northern Ireland, roots, safety and privilege
17:33 Intuition, compression and “woo in a suit”
21:31 Go slow to go fast, certainty and your own internal system
27:17 The work in your heart, safe-to-fail experiments and systems change

Explore further

Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam Bell: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387

Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits

Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and the Boston area, 18 August 2026
Produced at the Kiama office, 18 August - 3 September 2026

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

What comes after a life designed for freedom?

Tanner Gesek builds across startups, venture investing, writing and music. He is founder of Copilot, Venture Partner at WAGMI Ventures, and a pianist and composer whose music has passed 750,000 streams.

In this conversation, Tanner and Sam explore a question sparked by David Brooks’ The Second Mountain. A long-held script shaped by The 4-Hour Workweek centred independence, flexibility, travel and adventure. Tanner is now asking what other stories are available, and what becomes possible when freedom also includes chosen commitments, community and depth.

The question becomes tangible in a small weekly commitment. Tanner spends an hour most Saturdays improvising piano at a memory-care home, an experience with what he jokingly calls an “outsized meaning ROI”. The conversation follows that thread into friendship, the Network School “slipstream”, welcoming people wholeheartedly, composition, and choosing greater depth in work.

What you'll hear:

• The Second Mountain, The 4-Hour Workweek and questioning the “total freedom” script 
•  Chosen commitments, community and another way of thinking about freedom 
•  Piano in memory care, Frank, impermanence and “outsized meaning ROI” 
•  Network School, friendship and the energy of growing together 
•  Courage, receiving other people’s courage and meeting people wholeheartedly 
•  Returning to music, three albums and 750,000+ streams 
•  Copilot and why niching can be an emotional as well as intellectual problem 

Guest links:

• Tanner Gesek: https://tannergesek.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tannergesek/
• X: https://x.com/Tanner_Gesek
• Music: https://tannerchristiangesek.com
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6X6UFv4MBpNgNmgzl7LggC?si=Ch47_3XmRri8X8sgVukx_g
• Writing: https://tannergesek.substack.com
• Copilot: https://thecopilotagency.co
• WAGMI Ventures: https://wagmiventures.io

Conversation mentions:

• The Second Mountain by David Brooks: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/217649/the-second-mountain-by-david-brooks
• The 4-Hour Workweek: https://fourhourworkweek.com
• Presley Gonzales: https://www.linkedin.com/in/presleyjgonzales/
• Blossom Street Ventures: https://www.blossomstreetventures.com/
• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/updates
• Yiruma: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0fauHpmSHwodVYIjTqOGHz?si=d4QCkc9rQbeJGRdtlTUGAg
• Lucas Maddy’s Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/AMbqTaou6Wk
• Network School: https://ns.com/samanthaleebell/invite
• The Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/books/the-win-without-pitching-manifesto/

Chapters:

00:48 What comes after freedom? The Second Mountain
06:42 Piano, memory care and impermanence
11:05 Network School, ambition and the slipstream
15:08 Friendship, depth and real relationships
17:14 Courage, Presley and welcoming people wholeheartedly
20:21 Returning to music and higher standards
30:18 Growth, Copilot and the emotional challenge of niching

Explore further:

Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam Bell: https://samanthabell.com.au
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits:

Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Dallas, Texas, 17 July 2026
Produced at the Kiama office, 17 July - 1 September 2026

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

Rachel McIver has spent more than 30 years in HR, corporate leadership and leadership development, including senior roles at Coles and almost five years as Chief People & Culture Officer at Nando’s Australia & New Zealand. Today she is CEO & Principal Consultant of The Rachel McIver Group, helping senior leaders move from functional expertise to strategic enterprise leadership.

Rachel’s work is grounded in a deceptively simple idea: strong leadership is rarely either/or.

People and performance. Grace and grit. Stability and agility.

In this conversation, Rachel and Sam explore what happens when leaders stop treating those things as trade-offs and learn to make them strengthen each other. Rachel calls it leading through paradox: holding apparently opposing needs at the same time, then noticing the “halo effect” one can have on the other.

The conversation begins with a story remembered nearly a decade later. Sarah Jade Green recalls Rachel helping her navigate a redundancy process with a crucial language shift: a person is not redundant; their role is. It changed the tone from process versus person to organisational need and human care at the same time. 

Rachel also reflects on the leaders who shaped her, why work can be a place where people grow as human beings, and why she left a CPO role she loved to go deeper into leadership development across many organisations.

And there is another kind of leadership practice here too: creating enough space to notice the sweetness. Rachel describes “savouring sweetness” as noticing micro moments of joy: blossom on a tree, dew on a fence, walking the dog, connecting with community. Not escape from serious work. Replenishment that helps us keep contributing.

With thanks to Sarah Jade Green for introducing Rachel and Sam.

What you’ll hear

• Why “a human being isn’t redundant” changes how leaders approach difficult people decisions
 • Leading through paradox: people and performance, grace and grit, stability and agility
 • How clarity, care and performance can create a halo effect rather than compete
 • What it takes to lead effectively when several competing needs are present at once
 • Savouring sweetness, micro moments of joy and creating enough space to notice them
 • The leaders who helped Rachel grow through challenge, support, agency and trust
 • Why Rachel believes work should help people grow, thrive and carry capability into life beyond work

Guest links

• Rachel McIver: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelmciver/
• The Rachel McIver Group: https://therachelmcivergroup.com.au/

Conversation mentions

• Sarah Jade Green’s Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/iSkU4WsIIzs
• Repa Patel / Leading Mindfully: https://leadingmindfully.com.au/
• Mindful Leadership Retreat: https://leadingmindfully.com.au/mindful-leadership-retreat/
• Amanda Banfield: https://au.linkedin.com/in/amanda-banfield-36072813
• Greg Davis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-davis-60ba9211
• Andy Coleman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-coleman-221701a
• Janine Garner: https://janinegarner.com.au/
• From Hierarchy to Intelligence by Jack Dorsey and Roelof Botha: https://block.xyz/inside/from-hierarchy-to-intelligence
• Brené Brown, “Clear is kind”: https://brenebrown.com/articles/2018/10/15/clear-is-kind-unclear-is-unkind/
• Maggie Doyne’s Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/k-CVbUT1O7E

Chapters

00:13 Sarah Jade Green, lasting impact and leadership that travels
04:07 Redundancy, language and holding humanity with performance
06:20 Leading through paradox: grace and grit, people and performance
11:36 Stability, agility and the halo effect
18:06 Mindful leadership and savouring sweetness
25:00 Leaders who challenge, support and help others grow
30:52 Work as a place to develop people
32:44 Leaving Nando’s and building The Rachel McIver Group

Explore further

Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam Bell: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits

Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Hawthorn East, on Wurundjeri Country, 14 August 2026
Produced at the Kiama office, 14–27 August 2026

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au

Waris Hussain is a growth marketer and builder focused on alternative education. He works in growth at Praxis, a college alternative focused on practical skills and careers, and also has his agency, Catalyst Creatives. His path has moved through graphic design, UX, growth, startup operations, AI and product building, including early work with Career Hackers. He also shares what he learns generously through his public content, especially Instagram, and brings the same kind, open-hearted attention to other people.

In this conversation, Waris and Sam trace the path from his final years of school, when time alone and self-directed learning changed the way he saw education and work, through Network School and into the alternative-education ecosystem he is helping build today.

Waris talks about Praxis, his own public content, his AltEd Directory of 200+ non-traditional education programs, and the productivity systems he uses to make room for work, travel and life. Underneath it all is a simple thread: stay curious, explore widely, build what is useful and remain human as technology becomes more capable.

What you'll hear:

•  How time alone in his final school years changed Waris’ view of education and possibility 
•  Moving from graphic design and UX into growth marketing, startup operations, AI and building products 
•  Network School and the environments that make learning, health and ambitious work feel easier 
•  Why Waris has focused his work on alternative education and Praxis 
•  Building AltEd Directory to make non-traditional education pathways easier to discover 
•  Productivity as a way to create more life, not simply more work 
•  Childlike curiosity, relationships, nature and the human qualities worth protecting in the age of AI 

Guest links:

•  Waris Hussain: https://warishussain.com
•  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waris-hussain
•  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/warixhussain/
•  Catalyst Creatives: https://catalystcreativesagency.com
•  AltEd Directory: https://www.alteddirectory.com
•  Productivity handbook: https://warishussain.gumroad.com/l/productivity-handbook
•  YouTube: https://youtube.com/@warishussain7067

Conversation mentions:

•  Praxis: https://joinpraxis.com
•  Naval Ravikant: https://nav.al/
•  Balaji S. Srinivasan: https://balajis.com
•  Network School: https://ns.com/samanthaleebell/invite
•  Matt Hart's Natural Genius, Humanware and Becoming Yourself in the Age of AI: https://youtu.be/WHfUses9lBA

Chapters:

00:12 Waris: travel, generosity and Vietnam
06:08 Time alone and choosing your own path
07:59 Network School and environments that make growth easier
13:15 From design to growth marketing, AI and building
17:12 Praxis, alternative education and AltEd Directory
19:54 Productivity, trust and making room for life
29:40 Childlike curiosity, AI and staying human

Explore further:

Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387
Subscribe to hear future episodes.

Credits:

Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Da Nang, Vietnam, 19 May 2026
Produced at the Kiama office, 19 May - 21 August 2026

Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au