In this episode, Nick speaks with Dr. Eugene K. Choi, who achieved the American Dream. He earned his doctorate, had a 6 figure job, lived in his dream apartment, and drove a sports car, but he wasn’t happy. That left him with the question, “Now what?”

Needing to do something drastic, an odd and different opportunity arose. There was a YouTube channel that wanted Dr. Eugene on their team.

He spoke with his wife, and she supported the decision to leave everything behind and start this new adventure. Dr. Eugene had great feelings about this move, and this decision led to many other amazing opportunities.

All it takes is saying something yes to something crazy.

About Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Eugene is a Pharm. D is a Certified Transformational Mindset coach that helps talented heart-driven leaders operate at their highest levels of clarity, energy, and focus.

With a background in clinical pharmacy, neuroscience, and business coaching, his unique science-backed process, along with the use of groundbreaking technology, helps entrepreneurs figure out how to dramatically improve performance, innovate dynamic solutions, and achieve their goals.

His articles have reached over 9 million people, and he has helped hundreds of leaders significantly transform their results at both a professional and personal level.

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

00:00:08:08 – 00:00:27:17

Nick McGowan

Hello and welcome to The Mindset and Self-mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. And on this show, my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, the lives that we lead on our path to self-mastery. So let’s not wait any longer. Let the games begin.

00:00:32:02 – 00:00:49:18

Nick McGowan

Hey, Dr. Eugene. Welcome to the show, man. How are you doing? Yeah, I’m excited that you’re here. I was telling you right before we hit record that I was saying to myself a number of weeks ago, like, I really want to be able to have more people on the show that get into the science of things. I’ve done over 50 episodes at this point.

00:00:49:23 – 00:01:16:21

Nick McGowan

By the time years comes out, it’ll be a lot more than that. But I’ve had a lot of conversations that have been almost ethereal or spiritual and holistic in a sense. But I want to be able to get to some of the sciency stuff because honestly, Dr. Eugene, there are certain people I know that listen to this show that are like, Yeah, I’ve heard all that shit before, but I’m a science guy, so I’m excited to get into this sort of stuff because I know that you basically straddle both sides of that, but you are also a doctor.

00:01:17:04 – 00:01:25:17

Nick McGowan

So I don’t want to take really any of your thunder here. Why don’t you tell us what you do for a living? And one thing that most people don’t know about you, that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

00:01:26:06 – 00:01:48:10

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah. So what I do now is it’s bizarre because I’m a former pharmacist, right? I’m a doctor at a pharmacy. And I started my own business. And I work with a lot of leaders, CEOs, sometimes political leaders. And I teach them the brain science behind how to perform better, how to focus better, how to activate your creativity at will, especially because it’s the part of your brain that you need the most, is actually shut off for about 70% of your adult life.

00:01:48:23 – 00:02:00:12

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And something that most people don’t know about me is I know what it’s like to be in the middle of three gunfights, because I was living in one of the most violent cities in the world at the time for a month doing some volunteer work.

00:02:01:06 – 00:02:11:15

Nick McGowan

Wow. Well, we have to start off with the guns, then. Guns don’t kill people. People kill people. But what happened? Give us some context of that, Ben.

00:02:12:01 – 00:02:29:10

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah. So I was in college, you know, in the Asian world, you know, it’s like the cultural expectations. It’s like be a doctor, lawyer, that kind of thing. So I was in a soul searching period and I just wanted to get away. I had a friend, good friend of mine that did some volunteer work out in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, and he was telling me about it.

00:02:29:10 – 00:02:44:07

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So I said, You know what? I’ll go. I was a pharmacy student at the time and decided to volunteer. I was part I lived in an area called the Favelas. If you ever heard of a movie called City of God, for example, it was a famous movie. I was living like a block away from one of those locations.

00:02:45:07 – 00:03:06:07

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s one of the most violent areas in the world where more than 70 80% of the kids don’t live past 21 years old because of the gun violence. They get heavily involved in drug trafficking. So what happens is the Brazilian SWAT team on occasion will come in to raid the favela. My first day of arriving there, they came, they came.

00:03:06:07 – 00:03:18:15

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And then they were shooting at each other. And we were under the windows. Like I would watch the bullets ricochet above me. And then the director of the organization I was working was like, Welcome to Barrel, which was the name of the fella.

00:03:19:18 – 00:03:21:16

Nick McGowan

You’re like, I’m getting the next flight out of here.

00:03:21:21 – 00:03:35:10

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

That I am not personally speaking. That’s why I’m not a fan of guns. That’s why if like friends are doing bachelor parties, they want to go to a shooting range. I’m like, All good, I’ll be with you guys, but I don’t want to touch it. I’ve. Yeah, like that memory got ingrained in my brain.

00:03:37:00 – 00:03:38:05

Nick McGowan

I could only imagine.

00:03:38:05 – 00:03:41:13

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Geez, it’s not sexy.

00:03:41:13 – 00:03:48:09

Nick McGowan

No. And I would assume it’s not like the movies where you’re like, Oh, there’s guns and people are shooting stuff. It’s got to be terrifying.

00:03:48:23 – 00:04:00:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Not at all. Not at all. It was terrifying. Yeah. And I didn’t know how loud they were either. Like, that was my full extent hearing how loud it was. Like, right when it’s all happening.

00:04:00:20 – 00:04:10:23

Nick McGowan

So day one, you’re like, Here I am on day one. And how did the rest of it go? I mean, did you get into anything else crazy or was the rest of the trip?

00:04:10:23 – 00:04:31:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah, I mean, the gunfights happened like two major times after where they got raided again and again. And I heard it got raided a lot more leading up to I won’t before 2016. So you know when the Olympics were announced, that’s when they started cleaning up really hard. But it was beautiful day and like the the community there the surprising because the drug traffickers took really good care of their community.

00:04:32:05 – 00:04:51:00

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So it’s like it’s a bubble. It’s its own bubble. But it had its like beauty about it. And those drug traffickers were really friendly with me. They love me like because they knew I was contributing towards their community. So it’s kind of like a protective big brother kind of feeling from them. So yeah, ironically, like it was, it was really beautiful.

00:04:51:00 – 00:05:09:14

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Like, I loved it. I built a lot of cool relationships over there and it’s interesting, right? Like, and then you come home to your first world country after seeing like houses that have three walls and some of these places and you go back to your original friends back home and they’re complaining about their boss or they complaining about the new car part that they want to buy.

00:05:11:00 – 00:05:19:15

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Huge. Yeah, huge culture shock. Yeah, I got pretty jaded after that. But it was a it was a yeah. It was not something I would take back. I learned so much from it.

00:05:21:08 – 00:05:48:05

Nick McGowan

Yeah, that’s an interesting thing. You know I’ve, I’ve had a couple conversations over, I’d say probably the past decade or so where we’ve gotten into conversation about being able to go overseas and experiencing that. Because if you’re here, even if you’re in the States or if you just live in your own town, I think about how many people are townees you know, we were talking about New York and Philly before we hit record, and neither one of us live in those places anymore and haven’t for years.

00:05:48:05 – 00:06:01:05

Nick McGowan

But there are lots of people, I’m sure some that come to mind, even for the audience there, people that are listening to this now that you may be a townee if you are, I love you. If not, if you know people that are townees, you know, that’s how it kind of works for some people. Just kind of get stuck.

00:06:01:05 – 00:06:28:01

Nick McGowan

But going to a different country and experiencing something different allows you to look at things relatively so when you I mean, for you to go and first day be like, oh, cool. Gun violence, beautiful welcome to the country. I, I could imagine that’s got to be kind of tough coming back. But when you said you were a bit jaded, was it more jaded of people than understand the relativism of it or the relativity of it all or what was it that kind of jaded?

00:06:28:01 – 00:06:51:09

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

You Yeah, it’s just like a shock, you know? Like you come back home from, like, poverty and gun violence to safety and right, like luxury, right? In a sense. And it’s very jarring. It’s like it reminds me. So I’ve also done work in India with Mother Teresa’s organization. Like I remember like being across the street at a luxury mall and you’re looking out the window from like the fifth floor.

00:06:51:09 – 00:07:08:05

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And across the street is the slums, right? It’s just like literally across the street. It’s in New York, too, right? There’s an area like between like Harlem and fifth of like across the street. It’s like clearly, like not that great looking. So that’s kind of where it just got jaded, like the inequality, like that kind of stuff, right?

00:07:08:05 – 00:07:21:14

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Like, you know, how the whole rich get richer kind of thing. Like it was just face to face with it and the poor get poorer, that whole ordeal. But yeah, I mean, I agree with you. There’s nothing like having a shift in perspective. That is why I left New York. I didn’t realize it was a bubble until you left the bubble.

00:07:22:04 – 00:07:38:09

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Right. And then you start seeing and realizing there’s so many more ways to just live life because I was just not happy with it anymore. In New York, I think it feels similar to it, right? It’s like it’s normal to be busy and overworking and hustling and being being unhappy. Like, if you’re happy and people think something’s wrong with you.

00:07:38:17 – 00:07:45:00

Nick McGowan

Yeah. Don’t hate you for it. Like, why are you so. Oh, yeah, that’s right. And then I. But you can plan and move along with life.

00:07:46:14 – 00:07:56:04

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah. Yeah. If you don’t complain with them, they don’t like you. I’m like, nah, I don’t like to complain anymore. So yeah, I mean, that’s, I just didn’t like it. So I left.

00:07:56:09 – 00:08:14:10

Nick McGowan

It’s a solid point, man. I think a lot of people miss that, you know, like, they they miss the fact that they can make that decision and making it up and move because it’s such a big, scary thing. Like I told you that I lived in Portland for a little bit and when I left Philly to move to Portland, the amount of people that told me, Oh, I could never.

00:08:14:10 – 00:08:30:01

Nick McGowan

I was like, What the fuck do you mean? Yes, you can. I went for a long weekend, came back and two weeks later was moving. I was like, You could totally do whatever you want. They were just like, Oh, no, no, no, but. And they rattled off the list of excuses. I’ve got my job, I got my family, I got this, I got that.

00:08:30:01 – 00:08:46:19

Nick McGowan

And I think for the most part, that’s kind of a metaphor for how the way people look at life, where they just allow those excuses to kind of stop them. Now, you didn’t allow the excuses to stop you at all, but what was the what was the path to get to that point where you were like, I want out of this bubble and I want to go do something different?

00:08:47:12 – 00:09:08:16

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It was just becoming more and more aware of how unhappy I was, you know, I did I did the whole what I call the Asian American dream, right? Like I got my degree, I got my doctorate, I was practicing pharmacy. I got a six figure salary right out of college. I had the nice house, the nice new sports car, the brand new apartment, all that good stuff.

00:09:09:06 – 00:09:23:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And sitting there going, Why do I still feel like shit? Why do I still have my trust issues? Why do I still have all these kind of feelings that I don’t like feeling? I thought this was it. I thought this was the ticket. I got my first paycheck and was very anticlimactic. So it’s just coming face to face.

00:09:23:18 – 00:09:44:13

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

What? Your dissatisfaction, because you can only distract yourself with pleasure for so long, right? So it just got to a point when I was face to face with it and I decided to take action because how do you grow when you’re staying still? You just can’t. So I don’t know. I just it’s kind of like a spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks kind of thing.

00:09:44:19 – 00:10:02:08

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So after three years of working, I asked my wife. I was like, I have this opportunity because I was dabbling in filmmaking at the time. And I told her, I have this opportunity where there’s three Asian dudes left behind their very successful careers. One was a Harvard Med student. One was a youngest Asian director at the time at the White House.

00:10:02:08 – 00:10:17:14

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And the third guy was, you know, being consulting, which is one of the biggest consulting firms out there. And they quit to make videos on YouTube and they invited me to join the team. So I asked her, What do you think about spending, you know, 45 minute, 45 days on the road and just have the trip of our lives and then moved to L.A.?

00:10:17:14 – 00:10:35:15

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And she said, sure. So that was my first kind of experience, just stepping out of the bubble. And I’ve never looked back since because I don’t know how else to describe it. There’s nothing else like it. It’s just it was the most liberating. I felt all my stress start to melt away. There’s just something about that trip that started it all, and that was back in 2013.

00:10:36:06 – 00:11:02:07

Nick McGowan

That’s awesome, man. And especially to have a partner that goes, Yeah, let’s do it and be able to jump into that. I could imagine that would have been pretty scary for you to step outside of it. And look, I’m I’m an Irish American and for the most part, my family like work tight with, you know, a handful of us, but it’s a big ass Irish family and not’s not the exact same as what I know you’re alluding to with the Asian-American family.

00:11:02:12 – 00:11:20:07

Nick McGowan

One of my good friends grew up in a similar situation, and I know there’s a lot of pressure that comes with that. There’s some pressure that just comes with being in the Northeast anyway, where people expect you to constantly be on the go, constantly be working through stuff and any mental issues. They just don’t want to talk about it.

00:11:20:12 – 00:11:37:19

Nick McGowan

They just take it and say, Fucking put dirt on it, get your ass back up and get back in the game and you got it. Yeah. And that’s not the way to process through that stuff. So as you started to process through, I want to shift out of this because I’m making money, I’m doing all the things, but there’s still this fucking hole in my heart.

00:11:37:19 – 00:11:42:17

Nick McGowan

What was that transition like, mindset wise for you to kind of walk through that?

00:11:43:05 – 00:12:02:10

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah, definitely a rollercoaster. It wasn’t all rainbows and unicorns because there was a whole other aspect to my journey there to get to where I’m at today. But in terms of the mindset aspects, I remember it was life changing for me because like I remember I had this moment, right? Like it might be some people might call it like a spiritual moment.

00:12:02:10 – 00:12:15:09

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Like I just like the best way I like to describe it is like I felt like something was communicating with me. Right? Call it what you want, God, universe, whatever. Right. And I was on this stretch of the road trip for about 9 hours. It was a nine hour stretch that we were going on to the next state that we were going to.

00:12:15:09 – 00:12:28:21

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And I just remember sitting there and I remember something. I was feeling it right. It’s not like I was hearing a voice in my head, but like I was feeling it. Something was communicating with me. Hey, for the first time in your life, you’re giving me something to work with. Because all up to this point, you were complaining.

00:12:29:13 – 00:12:53:09

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

You kept treating me like a vending machine. Please fix this. Please. They fix that. And I will finally take action when I have the golden green light. Like, you know what I mean? Like, the the the, you know, the road is paved for me with certainty about my future, but it’s like, for the first time, I took a risk and I felt this feeling of like, you’re giving me something to work with for the first time, because if you keep giving me nothing, I can’t work with it.

00:12:54:03 – 00:13:13:03

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And that was just the beginning of a crazy journey that led to I did filmmaking for a little bit. Some of the biggest projects that I spearheaded got 23 million views online. Like we had multiple pieces of work that went viral. That taught me a lot about marketing. Long story short, that got me at some point hired into a business coaching company where the CEO of a multimillion dollar business taught me all about business.

00:13:13:22 – 00:13:37:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Fast forward to another time when I wrote an article online that got 7 million views and went viral as well. That single handedly launched my business to help me go full time into it. And the next thing I know, I’m coaching like seven figure business owners and I coach the mayor last year and it’s just like the list goes on and on of the wild stuff that’s ever happened since that if I told myself ten years ago, this is what would happen, I’m just like, I would, I would yeah, I would think I was full of shit, right?

00:13:37:20 – 00:13:49:04

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Like so yeah, that was a life changing moment for me. It’s just like this aspect of like, you got to give. Call it what you want. The world, the universe. You got to give it something to work with. If you’re going to stay still, it’s not going to work.

00:13:50:17 – 00:14:08:16

Nick McGowan

And that’s a beautiful thing. You know, I’ve had conversations recently about what I keep thinking about as doors when you open up a door and then there are other doors that are in front of that door, little do you know if you were to look 100, you know, of you 100 foot up or whatever, you could see all those doors between all those walls.

00:14:08:23 – 00:14:28:03

Nick McGowan

But realistically, you have no idea until you either go through a door or you don’t. And for you to actually go through that door and say, Alright, I’m going to go through this one and take this jump to go cross-country and change everything that set you up to be able to go through those other doors. But it still took you to be faithful in that sort of way to keep moving through it.

00:14:28:09 – 00:14:48:13

Nick McGowan

Now, did you feel things it’s say more now, more real than you had in the past? Because that sounds like that was one of those first kind of moments where you were like, I didn’t hear some booming voice scream at me and say, This is the thing you need to do. But to feel it. Once you feel that and you’re aware of that, it’s like a muscle.

00:14:48:13 – 00:14:56:06

Nick McGowan

You start to kind of work it. Now what did that look like for you to be able to start to work that and experience more of that just along the the path that you started on?

00:14:57:05 – 00:15:15:16

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah. I mean, you can only ignore that, that nagging feeling for so long, right. So yeah, in the beginning it was like, dip your toe in the water. I’ll just do it little by little. Right? I’ll be like, okay, I’ll move this direction. And then the more and more cool stuff that would happen is just like, Oh, maybe this stuff’s actually real.

00:15:15:16 – 00:15:30:23

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Like the stuff like people preach in like personal development world and all that. And yeah, one door led to another and that’s exactly right. You know, I remember like I think the first thing that I was thinking about when you’re talking about doors is like most of us, when we’re afraid, we just can’t even see that there’s a door to begin with.

00:15:30:23 – 00:15:45:14

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

We don’t even know there’s a door. So that’s the first step. It’s just like, put your head up for a moment and just explore options and see that there’s in fact many doors we just literally can’t see it. So yeah, I once I saw the first door, took it, I realized, Oh, I like what’s on the other side.

00:15:46:08 – 00:16:04:10

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And then you kind of get more curious. I wonder what’s in this next door. And the one thing just led to another and yet it I’m still it’s still surreal for me in terms of what’s happened in my life, things I thought I could I never knew I can actually experience. It’s already happened.

00:16:04:10 – 00:16:25:08

Nick McGowan

And that’s a common consensus for everybody. Everybody that opens those doors, you know, we all say those things. And I feel sad in a certain way for the people that don’t get it because they don’t step outside of their fear to open that door. But like you said, a lot of people don’t know as you said it, I kind of pictured somebody being really upset.

00:16:25:08 – 00:16:41:05

Nick McGowan

And at that point, their their hands are over their eyes because their faces in their their palms and they can’t see anything because they’re just so upset. And it’s a matter of the awareness. Once you’re aware of the thing, you can go do it. Like think about it. If if you looked around, you’re like, Oh, there’s a fucking door over there.

00:16:41:11 – 00:16:59:07

Nick McGowan

What the fuck does that door lead me to? I wonder what I can do. Some people will be like, Oh no, you never know. It could be some big, hairy, scary monster behind it. People like you and I are like, I get fucked, boop, you kick the door and if there’s a big scary monster, you shut it. If not, because most case there isn’t, you’re able to just kind of walk through it and move through it.

00:16:59:07 – 00:17:23:13

Nick McGowan

So you’ve gone through a ton over. Oh man, it’s almost been ten years since you made that trip, which is, I’m sure, crazy for you to think about. A decade has passed since that has happened. So tell us about tell us about that decade then, you know, 20 minutes here. Tell us about that decade and like the path that got you to where you’re at now and what you’re doing now with it.

00:17:23:13 – 00:17:42:06

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah, absolutely. So what I’m doing now, so this is the coolest part is I left behind pharmacy, right? And I was I was a clinical pharmacist, so I was in the hospitals doing a lot of work with doctors, nurses. Right. Like basically making sure they don’t screw up. Right. The drugs and all that. But you’d be surprised at how many times people screw up.

00:17:42:06 – 00:18:02:04

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

But anyway, we don’t need to go there. But it finally came. It finally came full circle. My health care background helped me understand the science. So I was diving deep into neuroscience and I had this big aha moment where because of the marketing skills I’ve indirectly developed from creating a lot of content that went viral and all that right?

00:18:02:04 – 00:18:20:12

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

I was looking at this and I discovered a couple of things when I was looking at the brain science where, oh my goodness, like there is gold in here. If it can be communicated in a non academic way where it’s simple for people to understand and in a human way and more importantly to apply because a lot of academics are are horrible communication, right?

00:18:20:12 – 00:18:42:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

They’re just, you know, throwing big words at you all the time. This can actually be life changing because like, for example, this was the first big aha I had was, look, your brain, your whole nervous system can only be in one of two states. It’s what I call a survival state or an executive state. Okay. So the thing to know about the executive state is this is where all of your superpowers come from.

00:18:43:00 – 00:18:58:11

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

That’s the best way I like to explain it. Your critical thinking skills come from here, your problem solving skills, your empathy, your creativity, your innovation, your intuition. The list just goes on and on and on of all these amazing functions that your brain has, okay? The survival state is the part of your brain that can’t think it’s a reactive mode.

00:18:58:11 – 00:19:18:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

You’re reacting without thinking because it’s meant for life threatening scenarios. So when I was in the middle of a gunfight, I need my survival state to turn on right? Like to hide or to run away, to protect myself, to prevent myself from being dead. So the key thing about that, though, is a reaction without thinking. You’re not thinking you’re not able to access these amazing parts of your brain because your brain feels like it’s under threat.

00:19:19:01 – 00:19:42:22

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So when you’re talking about like because of our fear, we can’t even see these doors because your hands are on your face when you’re in a survival state. This is why you can’t see all the opportunities that are around you and the solutions that you’re around you because you literally develop tunnel vision. So case in point, if a tiger walks into your room right now, an angry tiger, are you going to look anywhere else except where the tiger is?

00:19:42:22 – 00:19:57:13

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Do you see what I’m saying? No. So you can’t see anything else in the room except the tiger, even though there’s all this stuff in the room that’s there. It’s the same applies when we’re in fear. We’re so focused on the thing that we’re afraid of, which usually isn’t even real, right? We’re so focused on the thing we’re afraid of.

00:19:57:13 – 00:20:22:16

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Your brain literally cannot see all these other things that probably will help you get what you want to begin with. You see what I’m saying? So here’s the crazy part. Like I said earlier, based on research, for about 70% of our adult life, on average, we’re not in the executive state. We’re in the survival state. The part of your brain that can’t access critical thinking skills, problem solving skills, creativity, not because your life is actually in danger.

00:20:23:14 – 00:20:45:19

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s because we’re surviving from feelings that feel uncomfortable. So how do you know this is true? You have to reflect and think. How often do you feel angry? How often do you feel frustrated, sad, anxious, depressed? And you call any of these emotions that don’t feel good because guess what? Research shows that emotional pain can be processed as just as painful as physical pain in the brain.

00:20:46:05 – 00:20:59:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Do you see what I’m saying? So your brain can’t help but view it as a threat, which is why we go into this survival mode, that, boom, you’ve lost access to the part of your brain that you need to begin with.

00:20:59:18 – 00:21:26:11

Nick McGowan

Yeah, that’s wild. I think there’s a lot of people in the world that think it’s stuck. Almost like what you were saying earlier about the Asian American Dream or the American Dream or whatever. They’ve been kind of force fed. You’re supposed to have a spouse, two and a half children. The half is always weird to me. And a cat and a dog and a white picket fence and live in suburbia and make what, 50 k a year’s kind of the average?

00:21:26:11 – 00:21:28:19

Nick McGowan

Or maybe that’s even more nowadays with inflation.

00:21:28:19 – 00:21:30:06

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Now it’s like 80. Yeah.

00:21:31:18 – 00:21:53:22

Nick McGowan

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so everybody’s kind of force fed that stuff and they think they need to do these things. You know, a coaching client recently that told me they felt like they needed to get married, I was like, well, why? Why do you feel you need to get married? Is it because the love you have for her is like, No, my parents are expecting me to do it.

00:21:54:15 – 00:22:21:00

Nick McGowan

And that’s vastly different than what choice you should be making. So being able to look at those things and understand that you’ve got to be aware of that first is huge. So for you to be able to talk to your clients about getting out of that state, the reactive state, what’s an easy way that you can give without, you know, giving us a secret source of your coaching, but for the audience to be able to kind of snap themselves out of it and realize what’s going on and do something about it.

00:22:21:18 – 00:22:41:17

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Absolutely. So the most most important thing is awareness, right? Like, how do you change something unless you’re aware of it? And look, the only time you ever feel stuck, the only time you ever feel stuck. And I can say this with total confidence. Now, whenever you feel stuck, we use that word a lot. The only reason you’re stuck is because you’re unaware of the thing that’s keeping you that the real thing that’s keeping your stuff right.

00:22:42:00 – 00:22:58:08

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

All right. So. Exactly. So, you know, it’s it’s it’s very awareness is the power meaning like if you have a piece of broccoli stuck between your teeth, how do you have the power to remove that piece of broccoli until it comes into your awareness? Someone has to point out to you or you see it in the mirror. So the first phase, it’s 100% on time.

00:22:58:08 – 00:23:17:05

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s awareness. So the mind blowing things that I’ve come to realize that it we needed to become aware of. Well, first and foremost, it’s about how safe you feel. Like you said, think about how much pressure we feel on a daily basis for many reasons. Culture, society, media, right? You watch the news, you’re watching stuff like school shootings, unfortunately, dramatic politics, pandemic.

00:23:17:05 – 00:23:36:02

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Right. And how unsafe you feel directly correlates what state you go into. If you feel unsafe, you’re going to go into survival state, right? Does that make sense? Right. So we I have to put another side statistic here, because I remember I read a survey once that asked the group of people, who’s got your back? It’s a very simple question, right?

00:23:37:11 – 00:24:00:03

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

65% of the people in the room said nobody. And guess what? 55% of those people that said nobody, they were married. So it’s a question you have to ask yourself. How safe do you feel in your daily life to just be you? Right, aside from all the pressure you face from culture, society, right. Friends, family. And because if you don’t feel safe, you’re gone, you’re going to survival.

00:24:00:03 – 00:24:17:12

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And when you’re in survival, you can’t access those amazing parts of yourself. So the next thing to become aware of is what a survival state actually look like. This is key. This is the part that blew my mind. This is the part where people realize things they didn’t realize in in the wild what you do in the survival state.

00:24:17:12 – 00:24:43:08

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s three. Your brain only knows how to do these three things, literally. It’s just it comes down to these three things. When you’re in survival, it’s fight, flight, freeze, okay? In the wild, it’s very obvious you’re going to pick up a weapon to fight when you feel like your life is in danger. Right. You’re going to try to defend yourself in some way by fighting or you’re going to run for your life in flight or you’re going to play dead and freeze where, you know, possums are famous for doing this because they’re predators like their food of life.

00:24:43:08 – 00:24:59:23

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So they play dead and they don’t get eaten. So here’s the thing. We’re in survival 70% of our adult life, right? We need to know what the flight freeze actually looks like when we’re surviving from our emotions. Okay. That’s the first thing to be aware of. So that’s the first thing I just cover. It’s just play. I tell clients all the time, make it a game.

00:24:59:23 – 00:25:16:16

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Just see how good you become at noticing these fight, fly, freeze behaviors, whether it’s yourself or other people. So what does fight look like? Fight looks like some of the obvious ones. You know, you get your feelings hurt and now you’re getting into a fight in an argument, yelling and screaming. And we all know where that go. By the way, your empathy turns off on your survival.

00:25:16:16 – 00:25:33:17

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So, you know, when you get into argument, we usually know how that ends up, right? People get hurt. So that’s a fight obvious one of fights or physically fighting. Right. A lot of I’ll I’ll call out a lot of males. Right. Tend to get into physical fights because growing up we hear false messages like, you know, be tough.

00:25:33:17 – 00:25:49:09

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s not good to show emotion, stop crying, stop being such a girl. And because we don’t know how to process our emotions or ever, we’re taught how we literally get into physical fights at the bar when some guy says something fruity or whatever. Right. Or cutting out road rage. Right. That’s another example of fight. Your ego got hurt.

00:25:49:09 – 00:26:08:08

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So you have no consideration of the cars around you. So you feel the need to cut the person back off and fight back. So here’s the thing. There’s more subtle things, a fight that most people aren’t even aware of. The need to be right is a fight response, by the way, because people have an ego about being wrong, the need to prove oneself to yourself or to someone else.

00:26:08:08 – 00:26:33:15

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Guess what? That’s a fight. Hustle, culture is a fight, right? I need to work hard and overwork. It’s this. It’s this reaction to your feeling of inadequacy or not feeling worthy or not feeling good enough. There’s some sort of insecurity or fear inside of you for you to even react that way to it. Is that making sense? And I have to give examples because a lot of people I run into that are that I work with our high performers leaders, and they’re proud of their fight mode.

00:26:33:15 – 00:26:46:23

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

They think they need it. Right. So I have to give an example of what I mean by this. It’s a badge of honor. Exactly. So I had a client once had everything you could imagine, the million dollar, multimillion dollar business, the beautiful house, family, all that good stuff. And he’s in the sixties now and he’s going, Why am I still unhappy?

00:26:48:01 – 00:27:02:15

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And I’m talking to my of the fight response. And he’s sitting there going, Oh my God, I’ve pretty much been in a fight mode and that we have to fight men my whole life. I’m like, Oh, okay. Like, tell me more. What do you mean by that? He’s like, I’ve been fighting to prove to people that I’m better than my older brother, and I’m like, What are you talking about?

00:27:02:15 – 00:27:17:12

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

He’s like, Well, my older brother was an NFL football player, and when I was in high school, my coach told me, my football coach told me literally. He said to me, like, Stop trying. You’re never going to be as good as him, so don’t even bother. So how did he fight you? He felt a need to accomplish more.

00:27:17:12 – 00:27:33:03

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

He got the money right, the business, the family. And here you are at 60 years old, going, Why am I still unhappy? It’s because you’ve been fighting your whole life. When you’re fighting, you’re always it always leads to burn out and always it’s a lack of fulfillment. And, you know, what’s the most worst thing about the fight mode?

00:27:33:07 – 00:27:46:05

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s the very thing that prevents you from getting what you want. So what I mean by this, I had another client. He argued with me about how he needed them. He’s like, No, sometimes you need a survival state, right? I’m like, Unless you’re actually about to die, you don’t need it. It’s actually screwing you over in some way.

00:27:46:08 – 00:28:10:13

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s like, No, I have to tell you, he’s like, I hit rock bottom and I had to fight. Like, my second wife divorced me because she was cheating on me. The first wife cheated on me too, by the way, and I was still paying over $2,000 of child support per month. And I hit rock bottom. I had to gather all the change from the from the room to go to that market that still takes some of your money when you cash it in and I had like $5 left and I was so pissed off.

00:28:10:13 – 00:28:24:13

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

I remember that day and that was the moment I said I had to fight and I had to keep my head down, put my shoulder up, and I was bashing through brick wall after brick wall. And that’s how I got to where I’m at today, because he’s like 5000, you know, faster. It’s like multimillion dollar business, right? So I’m like, okay, that’s fair.

00:28:24:13 – 00:28:45:21

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Well, without telling talking to you about what you should have, would have, could have done, what about a thought exercise? What if you understood how to activate your executive state? It’s the thing that gives you the ability, even if it’s just for a moment. You put your head up in your shoulder down and maybe you actually see all those brick walls you felt cornered into having to bash through that, that it was your only option.

00:28:46:08 – 00:29:02:04

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

What if those brick walls were only three feet wide? Meaning there’s a lot of other options you’re going to have to bash through those brick walls. And if you’re in the fight mode, you tend to work harder, not smarter. You see what I’m saying? But when you’re in your executive state, it’s what gives your brain the ability to work smarter, not harder, if that makes sense.

00:29:02:04 – 00:29:21:04

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And wealthy people, wealthy and happy people understand this, right? Learn how to work smarter, not harder. So anyway, that’s a big fight. One that’s a that’s a1i dove into a little bit deeper because it tends to be the one where people like pride themselves on a lot and are not even aware of that. They’re in a fight mode because they feel the need to be a perfectionist or prove themselves to people, etc. and they think it’s a healthy thing.

00:29:21:04 – 00:29:39:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s not. So they overwork as well, right? Flight response is obvious. One is things like procrastination. It’s a self-soothing mechanism, right? Because there’s usually some fear there. What if I do this now and I screw up? What if I do this now? What will people think? What if I do this now and I’m not ready? So we tend to procrastinate as a soothing response.

00:29:39:22 – 00:29:56:06

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

That’s an obvious one of flight. The more subtle ones are the ones where we start to numb ourselves on purpose. Right? Some people overindulge things like alcohol, sex, drugs to the point of addiction. Right. Binge watch Netflix eat a tub of ice cream, which, by the way, there’s no judgment around any of this because we all have our numbing mechanisms.

00:29:56:06 – 00:30:12:21

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Okay. So it’s just to be aware of it. It’s a flight mechanism that we do to avoid the emotion we don’t want to feel. Fleeing to work is a flight to act. By the way, some people distract themselves by keeping busy with work. So that’s a flight mechanism. And lastly, freeze is when we in action, we don’t make decisions.

00:30:13:15 – 00:30:24:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

The obvious ones is like more comedic. Like, you know, if someone gets caught in a lie, you see their eyes wide enough and they literally freeze. It’s their brain going, Hey, if you pretend not to exist right now, maybe this person will stop, interrogate you.

00:30:24:20 – 00:30:28:07

Nick McGowan

Done fucked up.

00:30:28:07 – 00:30:33:21

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah. Maybe this person will stop interrogating you if you just stay still and pretend you’re dead.

00:30:34:02 – 00:30:34:09

Nick McGowan

Which.

00:30:34:15 – 00:30:49:17

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Which is? It’s funny because it just shows you’re guilty that right. If you freeze. But anyway. But the other ones is when you’re overwhelmed. Right. It tends to cause indecision. You wake up in the morning, you feel overwhelmed. You don’t want to get out of bed and then you don’t get the things done that you want to get done.

00:30:49:23 – 00:31:04:14

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So anyway, that’s the first thing. It’s just I tell clients to just make it a game. Look at how often we’re in Fight for Life Freeze. And can you see how? Why we’re actually in the survival state for 70% of our adult lives. And it’s just becoming more and more aware of what this actually looks like.

00:31:04:14 – 00:31:29:02

Nick McGowan

Awareness, man. I mean, the alphabet starts with a and everything else needs to start with A with awareness. Like it all boils down to that awareness. And it’s interesting because you bring up a lot of the stories that people tell themselves, like your client, that was like, No, fuck you, I needed to do this because he was defending the story that he had created for himself and put himself as that main character saying, This is my story, this is what I am.

00:31:29:02 – 00:31:53:21

Nick McGowan

That’s just like when people are about to leave their business or job or relationship or whatever and they go, Whoa, I don’t know what I would be like if I don’t have these things and they need to separate themselves from that. So you’ve talked about the awareness. We’ve kind of covered the story of that. How do you help people separate from that bullshit and to be able to step outside of it and look and see what’s actually happening to then do something about it.

00:31:55:16 – 00:32:13:23

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

100%. So there’s two key ingredients I realize if you truly want to transform your life, and I mean that like I’m not trying to say it as like a salesy, pitchy, like, kind of thing, right? A motivational speaking kind of thing. Right. If you truly want to. I realize there’s two core ingredients. The first thing is willingness. And here’s what I mean by this.

00:32:13:23 – 00:32:30:10

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Okay, I’m going to share it in the form of a story, because this is this was a life changing moment for me, too, about what willingness really means and willingness I got to get briefly coached by this amazing coach. Your name’s Rhonda Britton. I’ll just give you, like, the one minute context of her life. At 14 years old, her parents were in the middle of splitting up.

00:32:30:10 – 00:32:47:21

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It was Father’s Day. They were going out for brunch. Her and her mom go out at the yard that’s pulling up to the curb. He gets out of his car while the sisters are still in the house getting ready. He says, I need to get my coat from the trunk. He opens the trunk, doesn’t get his coat, pulls out a shotgun, walking over to Mom, pissed off at Mom, saying, It’s her fault.

00:32:47:21 – 00:33:04:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

You did this and proceeded to shoot her. Then he points the gun at Rhonda and before he pulls the trigger, Mom was still alive, so she’s screaming at the top of her lungs not to do it. He didn’t know she was alive. So he points the gun back at mom, shoots her a second time, looks over at Rhonda, points the gun at himself and pulls the trigger.

00:33:06:02 – 00:33:25:05

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

14 years old, she was the sole witness of a murder suicide. Okay. So you can imagine a trauma like this causes major survival. How does she fight? She kept their grades up. She tried to perform, thinking maybe this pain will go away if I keep fighting. How does she flee alcohol? She became an alcoholic and she attempted suicide three times.

00:33:25:13 – 00:33:41:17

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Is one of the most ultimate forms of flight, isn’t it? And how does she freeze? Plenty of days. She woke up in the morning, didn’t want to get out of bed yet. One day she turned her life around. She became this amazing life coach. She had her own Emmy Award winning television show in the nineties. She’s been on Oprah not once, but twice.

00:33:42:20 – 00:34:02:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And she turned a life around. And you see, I have to share her story because this is why her words had so much impact on me. She said this until you’re willing to be wrong about everything, you know, nothing ever changes. And I’m not highlighting that everything you know is wrong. I’m highlighting the word willing. Are you willing to be wrong about what you think is true?

00:34:02:20 – 00:34:22:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Because she was willing to be wrong about life. Sucks that she’s all alone, that bad things always happen to her because you can attach those meanings to a crazy experience like that. A trauma like that, can’t you? And because she was willing to be wrong, she turned her life around. And once you’re willing that second part of the ingredient is ownership.

00:34:23:08 – 00:34:44:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Okay. And what I mean by ownership is this and I used to say this phrase to my kids, like I would say to my daughter, for example, you’re making me so mad right now when she’s not listening to me right. And the more I study the brain and all that, I’m sitting here reflecting, but I’m like, Man, what might a little kid interpret those words as?

00:34:45:03 – 00:35:06:22

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Number one daddy is saying she’s making daddy mad. So, oh, there must be such a thing as me being the cause of your emotions. She thinks that’s true because that’s what I’m telling her. And number two, whoa. Daddy’s really mad right now. It’s very scary. So when Daddy’s mad, it feels like he doesn’t love me. So therefore, I develop a fear of making people mad, quote, unquote, which can never make anyone any emotion, by the way.

00:35:06:22 – 00:35:24:11

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And I’m about to prove it to you. So I’m sitting there going, Oh, my God, how might this impact their as an adult? What happens if she has the unethical boss that over works her and treats her poorly and because afraid of making the boss mad because she believes she can make people mad, she allows her boundaries to get crossed and she gives in.

00:35:24:11 – 00:35:40:22

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

She over works and sacrifices her mental health and probably her physical health too. You know what really got me? I’m like, Oh, shit. What happens if she’s in a relationship one day, maybe with some boy and he’s pressuring her to sleep with him and because she’s afraid of making him mad, she’ll do it even though she doesn’t want to.

00:35:41:05 – 00:35:58:22

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

So that’s when I was just like to the best of my ability to that, because that really got me at the time. She was like three or four years old. I was like, baby girl, you can never make anyone mad. The only reason Daddy’s ever mad is because of his stuff. It’s because he’s afraid of something. And I realized my fear was being perceived as a bad that because, you know, my dad left behind our family when I was a teenager, I held a lot of resentment and all that.

00:35:58:22 – 00:36:18:21

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Right. But anyway, and to the best of my ability and I switched the words from You’re making me mad to simply I’m feeling mad because I know she’s not causing me mad. The anger, it’s the meaning I’m giving the experience, right? Oh, she’s not listening to me. So therefore that means I’m a bad dad. And I used to say angry thoughts, like, if I’m ever dad, I’m not going to be a bad dad like mine.

00:36:19:10 – 00:36:33:13

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Right? So that triggered me. So that’s when I look at the CEO and I share that story with him, I’m like, tell me again, you were saying in this call that your team’s pissing you off. Is it your team that’s pissing me off or something going on inside of you? And that’s ownership. That’s when they’re able to go, Team’s not pissing me off.

00:36:33:13 – 00:36:56:20

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s me. Because the moment you do that now you have power, you can do something about it. And that’s the first stop, and the rest is training, just like you can a muscle at the gym and physically train. Guess what? There’s a whole process. You can train your brain to get better at this because the problem, the bigger problem is 90 to 95% of your brain by the time you’re 35 subconscious.

00:36:56:21 – 00:37:12:16

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

What does that mean? It’s on autopilot, right? So just like you’re not going down the stairs, going on to put my left foot forward, my right foot forward, my left foot. You do it without thinking. The same applies to whatever you think is real. The I’m not good enough, the negative thoughts you carry, all these living beliefs that you’re carrying.

00:37:12:16 – 00:37:31:22

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

It’s on autopilot in the brain. So the good news is there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s just because of your unique life experiences and the meanings you’ve attached to those experiences. It create a programing in your brain to eventually run on autopilot, which is why you have this thing called reality. But guess what? Are you willing to be wrong about what you think is real?

00:37:31:23 – 00:37:47:01

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Because your brain is so easily fooled into what it thinks. It’s real, you know? You know how I know this? Think about this. You ever been in a dream? When you’re in the dream, you thought it was real? Yeah. So who’s to say this belief you might be carrying? I can’t do it. I’m not good enough. I’m right.

00:37:47:01 – 00:38:04:01

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Like nothing ever worked. What if that wasn’t real? Are you willing to challenge that? And then once you do that, you’re one correct. And once you have that and then it’s a skill, it’s anyone can learn it. That’s what I’ve left behind my career to teach people is to just teach it to people. And then you rewire parts of your brain that aren’t serving anymore.

00:38:04:19 – 00:38:24:23

Nick McGowan

Yeah, that’s a beautiful thing, man. That willingness, just saying, I’m willing. Just think about any relationship you’ve had for the audience, for yourself. Like, I’m willing to have this conversation. I’m willing to step into this role, I’m willing to do these things. If you’re not willing, then none of the opportunities are going to open up. You’re just unwilling to do it.

00:38:25:08 – 00:38:51:21

Nick McGowan

That’s huge. And you brought up thinking that you’re not enough or that you’re crazy. And and the amount of times growing up that I thought I was fucking crazy because I just didn’t understand how to communicate within my own head and feel and understand what the feelings were. And that goes for a lot of people. I’ve had so many conversations over the years where people go, My fucking crazy, am I losing my mind, my nuts?

00:38:51:21 – 00:39:16:08

Nick McGowan

It’s like, No, you’re not. You just need to process through this stuff and work through it. And a lot of it goes back to that awareness. I think the willingness is a big thing. Then I appreciate you getting into that and given some real activities that people can dove into and figure out. So for the people that are on their path towards self-mastery, what sort of advice would you give them?

00:39:16:08 – 00:39:40:11

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah, the bottom line advice I give is bring awareness to the relationship you have with yourself. Right. I remember when this leader was asked, you know, the cliche question, how do I find the perfect one? How do I find the perfect partner in my life? Which, by the way, is a survival state question because you’re asking that question as if there’s this one person in the world that you can dump 100% responsibility to for your happiness.

00:39:40:18 – 00:39:58:21

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Right. Who would want that pressure? And number one, it doesn’t exist. And the people who believe that they can be that person, they have their own survival issues. Right. People who play savior. Right, because they have their own security is about worthy and all that. So anyway, the leader understood and that this is coming from a place of survival and he just has a really powerful question, which was, would you go out with yourself?

00:40:00:02 – 00:40:20:04

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And I remember that hit me like a ton of bricks because number one, I became aware of my first answer being no, because it’s easy to say all the things you don’t like about yourself. Right. And you hear that in personal vomit. The second thing I had a deeper break that I was like, Oh, shit, if I can do all these nice things for my wife claiming it’s because I love her, but if I don’t love me, guess what?

00:40:20:04 – 00:40:35:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

I’m not doing those things for her. I’m doing it for me. Because if I carry a belief that I’m not worthy, my brain in the fight mode will go do these nice things for other people so that one day maybe you will finally feel worthy. Is this making sense so far, right. So that was the big breakthrough I had is how is your relationship with yourself?

00:40:35:18 – 00:40:54:13

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Because if it’s not, you’re going to be in survival. This is when I realized I was one of those people that overworked over gave because I had low self-esteem. I thought maybe if I keep over giving one day, I will feel better about myself. But that’s the key thing to understand. You cannot create authentic connection with other people unless you have authentic connection with yourself.

00:40:54:17 – 00:41:10:18

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

That’s what self-mastery is. Do you accept yourself the way you are? Do you love yourself the way you are no matter what? Because if you don’t, you’re going to live in survival. You’re going to live a transactional life. You’re not going to have deep connections in your world. You’re going to be very isolated and alone because who is the focus on when you’re in survival yourself?

00:41:10:19 – 00:41:29:17

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

You’re not being empathetic when a tiger is in front of you, about to you. Right, your brain’s not going. I wonder how this tiger’s doing today or his parents feed him. You literally are incapable of connecting with other people. So the most important to connect with first is yourself. So get yourself what you need. Support, love, right? Space.

00:41:30:05 – 00:41:46:14

Nick McGowan

Yeah. What a beautiful way to be able to end this episode. That’s such a powerful thing. You know, we’ve gone through a lot with this. And Dr. Eugene, I appreciate you being on, man. I’m excited. This is this is our first conversation, but this will not be our last conversation. It won’t tell us we’re not working the audience find you.

00:41:46:14 – 00:41:47:17

Nick McGowan

And where can they connect with you?

00:41:49:06 – 00:42:10:02

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Yeah, absolutely. I have a homepage. It’s Destiny Hacks that SEO. There’s a free training you can sign up for that gives you some, like, short term tools to get out of survival when you become more aware of it. I also have a course I’m releasing it’s neuro hacking course XCOM that basically just brings you through what I bring clients through to help you develop these skills of rewiring your brain out of survival.

00:42:10:22 – 00:42:29:03

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

And what I’m putting in there as a bonus is, you know, I’ve worked with multiple seven figure business owners, got trained by all that kind of stuff. Is this question of how do you take your talent and make an impact and ideally, you know, make some money out of it, too. So I’m doing a free like business training in there, like as well as a bonus for there and that’s that’s released on neuro hacking course AECOM.

00:42:29:14 – 00:42:32:16

Nick McGowan

That’s awesome. Again, thank you so much for being on the show. We appreciate your time.

00:42:33:05 – 00:42:34:15

Dr. Eugene K. Choi

Thank you so much for having me. This is fun.

00:42:36:06 – 00:42:58:21

Nick McGowan

Another great conversation on today’s episode of The Mindset and Self-mastery show. So what did you think of the show today? I’d love to hear your thoughts. Check out the Instagram or Facebook page to join the conversation. If you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to iTunes and subscribe five rate and leave a five star review. It helps us be found and helps others be healed.

00:42:59:10 – 00:43:20:02

Nick McGowan

If this episode opened your eyes, made you think or smile at all, then I’m sure it’ll do the same for your friends. Check out the show notes for more info from today’s episode and check out other episodes on The Mindset and Self-mastery show dot com as well as our YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube and look up the mindset and self-mastery show.

00:43:20:17 – 00:43:39:05

Nick McGowan

Thanks again to our incredible guests for being real, honest and vulnerable with us today. I’d like to thank our sponsors and most importantly, I’d like to thank you, thank you for hanging out with us today. Your support means the world to us. And with that, remember, your mindset matters and so do you.