This week (December 17th, 2025) on episode #645 of The New Media Show with Rob Greenlee host is joined by longtime podcasting pioneer and returning guest co-host Cliff Ravenscraft, the Podcast Answer Man, for a wide-ranging and timely conversation about where podcasting has been and where it’s heading next.

The episode opens with a reflection on the long-running industry debate around the definition of a podcast and why that question has resurfaced so often over the last few years. Rob and Cliff explore how audience behavior has quietly moved ahead of industry debates, shifting consumption toward a mix of audio, video, livestreams, and platforms like YouTube, often without waiting for permission or consensus.

Cliff shares the full story behind his return to the Podcast Answer Man brand after stepping away years ago, including why he left, what he focused on during his time away, and what changes in the podcasting and creator landscape made this the right moment to come back. He reflects on two decades in podcasting, helping tens of thousands of creators launch shows, and why many creators today feel overwhelmed by conflicting advice around video, algorithms, and monetization.

Rob introduces the concept of podcasting’s evolving eras, beginning with the often-forgotten “Zero Era” where audio and video podcasting coexisted early on, followed by the MeUndies era, the experimentation and acquisition boom, and the more recent identity-crisis phase defined by the question “What is a podcast?”

Together, Rob and Cliff discuss why the industry may now be entering what’s being called the Liquid Content Era, where shows are no longer confined to a single format and content flows across feeds, platforms, and experiences.

The conversation digs into the tension between creator intent and audience convenience, the role of RSS in a changing ecosystem, and the risks of letting algorithms dictate creative decisions.

Cliff offers a counterbalance to the pressure many creators feel to be everywhere at once, emphasizing that audio-only podcasting can still succeed when aligned with clear goals, sustainable workflows, and meaningful audience relationships.

The episode also explores production quality, evolving audio standards, video integration challenges, international podcast growth, and why podcasting remains a powerful global medium despite constant claims that it’s “over” or “dead.”

This episode is both a reality check and a recalibration, encouraging creators to stop defending definitions, focus on serving audiences, and choose formats intentionally rather than reactively.

Join the conversation in comments, and be part of the discussion about what podcasting really means now and what it can become next.

Rob Greenlee

Cliff Ravenscraft

The post What’s a Podcast Era Is Over – Welcome Liquid Content Era #645 first appeared on New Media Show.

In the December 10th, 2025 Live episode of The New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Mike Dell, VP at Blubrry Podcasting, as guest co-host for a grounded, practical conversation about what keeps a podcast growing long after the initial excitement fades. The episode opens with a sincere reflection on Todd’s passing and the lasting impact he had on the community, along with the intention to honor his legacy in the months ahead.

From there, Rob and Mike move into the core topic: why many podcasts and live shows start strong, then stall. They unpack how a lack of clarity and consistency often shows up as drifting topics, uneven pacing, and episodes that feel improvised in a way that does not serve the listener. Their argument is simple: sustainable shows are built, not stumbled into. Structure does not mean sounding scripted or robotic. It means defining a format your audience can recognize, returning to it reliably, and creating a repeatable experience that keeps people coming back.

They also talk about how modern media habits are reshaping expectations. With short form video and endless scroll everywhere, audiences decide quickly whether to stay. Rob and Mike stress the importance of a strong opening, clear positioning, and content that delivers on what the title promises. They discuss video as part of the current landscape, but keep the focus on fundamentals like audio quality, intentional production choices, and making platform decisions that do not compromise the listener experience.

Mike pulls in lessons from his own shows, including what he has learned from hyperlocal and niche content, and how community relevance can drive engagement in ways that surprise creators. The conversation highlights practical ways to increase interaction, including live chat, polls, and Q and A segments, not as gimmicks, but as tools to build a real sense of participation and belonging. They also touch on workflow improvements, handling technical issues gracefully, simplifying video production, and using on screen titles and lower thirds so viewers can easily follow along.

By the end, the episode becomes a clear playbook for leveling up: know what your show is trying to achieve, design a format that supports that goal, respect attention early, keep the quality bar consistent, and build community in a way that invites people in instead of pushing them away.

Rob Greenlee

Mike Dell

Audio Chapters:

The post Making a Pro Level Live or Recorded Show – New Media Show #644 first appeared on New Media Show.

In this episode, we relaunch the New Media Show #643 with special guest Rob Walsh, VP of Libsyn.

After a difficult last few months following the passing of longtime friend and co-host Todd Cochrane, The New Media Show officially returns with a fresh format and a familiar voice. In this reboot episode, we again talk candidly about the process of bringing the show back, honoring Todd’s legacy, and where the podcasting industry is really headed in 2025 and beyond.

Rob Greenlee and Rob Walch dig into the renewed 2026 Podcast Hall of Fame, why hosting it at Podfest Expo matters, and how this year’s inductee class reflects both the early pioneers and today’s global voices.

They unpack what advertisers are actually buying right now, why mid sized loyal shows often outperform the “big names,” and how the shift from demographic targeting to psychographic and genre based buying is changing deals for creators at every level.

The conversation also explores the rise of private communities and paid video ecosystems on platforms like Substack and Uscreen, plus the relaunch of NewMediaShow.com with a fully restored archive of nearly 600 past episodes.

From YouTube and Spotify’s “top podcast” charts to Apple’s long running audio ecosystem, the two Robs wrestle with a core question: what truly counts as a podcast in an era where many YouTube only shows get labeled as such.

They contrast audio first and video first strategies, debate download versus HLS streaming, and talk through how measurement, attribution, and IAB revenue reports reveal a still under valued ad market relative to radio and other media.

Finally, they tackle the current wave of AI generated ads and shows, including legal requirements around disclosure and why so much AI content still feels soulless, even as tools get faster and more powerful.

Whether you are an indie creator, a network executive, or someone who has followed The New Media Show for years, this reboot episode sets the tone for a new chapter that stays true to the show’s roots while leaning hard into the realities of today’s business of podcasting.

Rob Greenlee website

Libsyn podcast hosting and network

The post Rebooting the Show: Video, AI and Revenue #643 first appeared on New Media Show.

On this special New Media Show tribute episode, we honor the life and legacy of Todd Cochrane, podcasting pioneer, podcast hall of famer, founder of Blubrry and RawVoice, host of Geek News Central podcast, author of one of the first podcasting books, and co-host on The New Media Show for 13 years.

Todd’s influence on podcasting was profound: from launching one of the earliest shows in 2004, to creating the Podcast Awards, to championing open RSS and independent podcasters. His voice, conviction, and generosity shaped the medium and inspired countless creators.

Joining host Rob Greenlee Podcast Hall of Famer are Adam Curry is also a Podcast Hall of Famer, Mike Dell, VP at Blubrry, and Rob Walch, VP at Libsyn who is also a Podcast Hall of Famer as we reflect on Todd’s extraordinary journey and life, from Navy service to podcasting leader, and discuss his impact on the industry, his unwavering advocacy for creators, and the lessons he leaves for the future of podcasting.

The post Remembering Todd Cochrane Podcast Hall of Famer and Blubrry CEO first appeared on New Media Show.

The episode titled “Bryan Barletta of Podcast Movement: What’s Next for the Show?” features hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee, who welcome guest Bryan Barletta. The episode begins with Todd introducing Bryan and discussing the recent happenings at Podcast Movement following the event. Bryan expresses gratitude for Todd and Rob’s previous discussions about Podcast Movement and mentions the importance of critical feedback.

Todd brings up some challenges regarding the number of attendees and logistical details from the recent Podcast Movement event, sharing metrics he tracked personally. Bryan explains that he was less involved in that specific event but acknowledges the need for feedback and improvement based on attendees’ experiences.

Bryan discusses his recent transition after the acquisition of SoundProfitable and how it positions him to make impactful changes in the industry. He emphasizes the need to create value and excitement around the event, with a particular focus on enhancing attendance and engagement. They discuss how the geographical location of upcoming events, especially in New York, should draw more attendees compared to previous events in San Diego.

Todd highlights the differences in crowd behavior at events compared to others, like Podfest and events in London. Bryan responds that the changes since COVID and the dynamics of each convention make it essential to evaluate attendee needs carefully.

The conversation shifts to how better to engage creators and business representatives in the podcasting industry. Bryan acknowledges the diversity within the creator community and highlights the challenges of merging business and creator-centric content at events. Rob raises concerns about maintaining a balance between industry-focused events and offerings for creators.

They note the popularity of video as a growing trend in podcasting and the importance of presenting audio content in appealing ways. Todd urges that audio should remain a cherished medium and not be overshadowed by video initiatives.

As the episode progresses, Bryan shares his views on the potential of Podcast Movement to support creators more robustly and the need to differentiate from competing platforms like YouTube and Spotify. He emphasizes the importance of fostering audio-centric content creation in response to industry changes.

Toward the end of the discussion, Bryan shares that announcements will be made around October, hinting at upcoming adjustments to the event structure and approach to programming. He emphasizes the goal of making it easier for attendees to engage with the event and expresses excitement about future initiatives.

Todd and Rob wrap up the episode by reflecting on Bryan’s insights, acknowledging questions that remain, and the evolving landscape of podcasting events. They point out the potential for regional events and reiterate the need for better communication with the creator community.

The episode concludes with Todd giving his contact details and inviting listeners to follow up for future discussions.

The post Bryan Barletta of Podcast Movement: What’s Next for the Show? #642 first appeared on New Media Show.

In this episode titled “Podcast Movement Recap and Insights,” hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee discuss their experiences and observations from the recent Podcast Movement conference held in Dallas. Todd has also posted a piece on Linkedin that has garnered nearly 8000 views.

Todd kicks off the conversation by expressing gratitude for the listeners. Rob brings up the theme “show me the money,” which reflects a mixture of seriousness and humor regarding the event. Todd shares his experience of arriving on a Sunday, noting that he could have saved on hotel costs by arriving later, given the event’s setup schedule.

Both hosts discuss the presence of vendors at the conference, with Todd commenting on the impressive booth from Libsyn compared to other vendors, resulting in a total of about twenty vendors. Rob adds context for those unfamiliar with Podcast Movement, describing it as historically significant and the largest podcasting conference, although he notes that it may no longer hold that title. They express concerns over attendance numbers, suggesting that the conference may be losing its prominence compared to other events, such as Podfest.

As they delve deeper, Todd notes that many attendees seemed to be local and not diverse enough geographically in terms of representation. They discuss the financial aspects of attending the event, including ticket costs and discounts provided for local attendees. Todd expresses relief that the discounted tickets helped increase attendance.

The conversation shifts to a significant announcement made during the conference regarding Podcast Movement’s acquisition of Sounds Profitable. They discuss the implications of this acquisition and the confusion surrounding the language used to describe the transaction, which is defined as both an acquisition and a merger. Todd shares his initial reactions and interactions with key players from Sounds Profitable, expressing hope for future creator engagement.

Rob and Todd then reflect on the event’s atmosphere and traffic. While they experienced slow periods, Todd is satisfied with the overall attendance, noting that they ultimately scanned around 100 badges. They discuss the mix of people they interacted with, some looking to shift their hosting platforms, while others were starting.

The hosts discuss potential issues affecting the podcasting space, including stagnation in creator numbers and retention concerns. Critical discussions within the industry arise, reflecting on whether podcasting can maintain its independence while embracing mainstream media and the expectations of profitability.

They also discuss practical considerations for future events, including potential changes in scheduling and structure to appeal to both business professionals and creators. Rob suggests the need for one-day passes and more targeted marketing to effectively engage local audiences.

Todd expresses his hope for improvements, highlighting the possibility of creating a space for a truly educational experience that is free from self-promotion. They both emphasize the importance of creating a balanced program that prioritizes genuine teaching and sharing knowledge rather than merely promoting products or platforms.

By the end of the episode, Todd shares some insights regarding industry trends, drawing attention to the need for widespread understanding of Open RSS and its importance in sustaining the podcasting ecosystem. They conclude with acknowledgments, inviting their audience to send feedback and highlighting key people in the podcasting community, while looking forward to future developments and discussions.

The episode wraps up with both hosts thanking their listeners and affirming their return for the next episode.

The post Podcast Movement Recap and Insights #641 first appeared on New Media Show.

In this episode titled “Podcasting’s Future Is Choice”, hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee discuss various aspects of the podcasting industry, particularly surrounding the upcoming Podcast Movement event.

The episode begins with Todd and Rob greeting each other and discussing their plans to attend the Podcast Movement conference. They discuss the costs associated with attending the event and express hope that it will attract a good turnout. Todd mentions the high price of coffee at the venue, leading to a discussion about the costs of refreshments at such events.

They then transition to a new topic, discussing a recent article by Tom Webster that highlights a survey revealing the public still predominantly expects podcasts to be audio-based. The hosts analyze and debate the implications of the data, discussing how perceptions may be shifting regarding the definitions of podcasts as audiences encounter more video content.

Rob comments on the current state of the podcasting industry, describing it as “cloudy” due to the evolving relationship between audio and video formats. He reflects on how podcasting has become increasingly commercialized over time, similar to mainstream media, with a growing focus on monetization and advertising.

As the conversation progresses, Todd and Rob delve into a podcast study indicating that most listeners dedicate only three hours a week to podcasts, questioning the implications of such limited consumption. They also discuss the growth in podcast advertising revenue, which has reportedly risen, but express skepticism about the figures presented, particularly in light of layoffs within the industry.

Todd mentions Spotify’s plan to raise subscription costs for users outside the U.S. and discusses other industry trends, such as the dual nature of recent podcasting content. Rob notes that some networks are canceling podcasts labeled as risky because of their unfiltered content.

The hosts shift to a discussion about the upcoming Podcast Movement, focusing on the various sessions and their related topics, with a notable emphasis on video in podcasting. They also touch on the challenges of securing accommodations at the event.

Towards the closing of the episode, Todd and Rob recount their personal travel experiences and provide insights into Internet speeds available in their respective areas, reflecting on the necessary infrastructure for modern podcasting.

In conclusion, they agree to return with insights and updates from Podcast Movement in a future episode, signing off with their contact information.

The post Podcasting’s Future Is a Choice first appeared on New Media Show.

In the latest episode of the New Media Show, hosted by Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee, the discussion begins with a light greeting and banter about upcoming events, particularly Todd’s anticipated return to the United States and the podcast movement. They briefly touch on the advertising campaigns Todd has been involved with on PodNews and his challenges with launching GuestMatch.pro, a new platform aimed at connecting podcasters with guests.

As the conversation progresses, they delve into Netflix’s shifting focus towards video content and its impact on traditional media. Todd shares his skepticism about the effectiveness of simple audio being placed on video platforms. At the same time, Rob discusses the implications of this shift, noting how it might reshape the dynamics of podcast talent.

The hosts then spotlight Overcast’s testing of built-in transcript support, congratulating founder Marco for joining Apple Podcast and Pocket Cast in incorporating transcripts. They hope that Overcast will adopt the transcript tag from RSS feeds, thereby increasing accessibility to podcasts.

The episode transitions to a discussion about Spotify, covering its challenges with ad revenue despite overall profit increases. Rob notes the industry’s pivot towards subscription models and raises questions about Spotify’s advertising future.

The conversation shifts towards programmatic ads and how new players in the space, like rss.com, are establishing their presence with low payout thresholds. Todd and Rob discuss the implications of advertising and the financial dynamics of big tech companies managing content platforms.

They also highlight a recent list from Time magazine that featured the 100 best podcasts, expressing disappointment over the omission of notable shows such as “Pod Save America” and “The Joe Rogan Experience.” The hosts speculate on the potential political bias in the selections.

Further conversations explore the estimated boom in the podcast market projected to reach $40 billion by 2025; however, they debate whether this is realistic given the nature of the industry.

The discussion then navigates through the broader podcast landscape, tackling the nuances in monetization paths for creators and the increasing reliance on private platforms like Patreon and Substack.

Todd and Rob reflect on the evolution of audience engagement, particularly with women-led podcasts establishing a significant presence compared to traditional solo-hosted shows, which men often dominate. They discuss the importance of forming direct relationships between creators and their audience, encouraging creators to harness tools for community building and revenue generation outside traditional platforms.

As the episode nears its conclusion, they share personal anecdotes related to travel and technology, with Todd recounting his experiences with AI capabilities in optimizing tasks, such as finding flight deals.

Overall, the episode offers a comprehensive update on the podcasting industry, examining shifts in media consumption, the economic landscape, and providing guidance for creators navigating these changes. The hosts conclude the show with a reminder about their respective social media handles and encourage audience engagement before wrapping up.

The post Overcast quietly tests built-in transcripts! first appeared on New Media Show.

In this episode of “The New Media Show,” hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee discuss various aspects of independent podcasting, referencing the financial success of the Joe Budden Network, which reportedly makes over a million dollars a month on Patreon plus an equal amount in advertising revenue. Todd expresses his views on what constitutes an independent podcast, questioning whether contracts with platforms like Spotify affect that classification. Rob adds that the definition of independence in podcasting is convoluted, as many shows labeled as independent still utilize a team for production.

The conversation highlights that Joe Budden once had a contract with Spotify but is now considered independent, having left due to insufficient financial support. Todd believes that many independent podcasters can sustain themselves financially through strategic planning and high-quality content, even with a small team.

Furthermore, they discuss monetization strategies, including flexible donation models on platforms such as Patreon & Paypal. Rob shares that he views independent podcasts as those that control their content rights and haven’t given them over to a larger platform. Both hosts agree on the changing landscape, where even well-known podcasters can still consider themselves independent despite having support teams.

As the dialogue progresses, they discuss NPR’s funding cuts and the implications of these changes on independent content creation, highlighting the evolution of podcasting since its inception around twenty years ago. They reflect on how their audience demographics have evolved alongside them, with the younger audience now more prevalent than when they first started.

The latter part of the episode transitions into a discussion about industry events, with a particular focus on the upcoming Podcast Movement conference. Todd shares insights on the scale and focus of the event, noting a shift towards more corporate sponsors and fewer independent participants. They highlight the need for unified metrics in podcasting to simplify advertising buy decisions, citing confusion among ad buyers.

As the conversation draws to a close, Todd and Rob cover the emerging trend of AI-generated voiceovers for ads, discussing potential ethical concerns and implications for audience trust in advertisements. They ultimately invite listeners to share their thoughts and feedback regarding the show and the topics discussed.

The episode concludes with both hosts sharing their contact information and encouraging audience engagement, highlighting the continued evolution and challenges within the podcasting landscape.

The post Independent Podcasts Build Massive Annual Revenue first appeared on New Media Show.

In this episode titled “Adam Curry Returns and Spotify’s Seven Million Shows,” hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee welcome listeners to the new media show. Rob expresses his excitement about discussing various topics, particularly noting the significant milestone of seven million podcasts, mainly attributed to Spotify (wink)(wink).

As they delve into the numbers, Todd and Rob comment on how many new podcast creators fail to enable RSS feeds at Spotify, which limits their reach to platforms like Apple Podcasts. Todd notes that Spotify’s exclusive setup has led to many underwhelming shows, which the Podcast Index has responded to by halting the listing of new shows due to a high failure rate.

Rob points out the false perception of success that arises from inflated numbers while highlighting the challenges new creators face in achieving real engagement. Todd emphasizes that many shows are simply tests with little commitment behind them. They discuss the implications of free trials offered by hosting services, revealing frustrations with the influx of low-quality or “scammer” shows that clutter platforms.

The conversation shifts to the current climate in podcasting, where the number of new shows has decreased compared to previous years. Rob mentions that while many creators are searching for side hustles, they often have unrealistic expectations regarding making money through podcasting, which requires more effort than they anticipate.

Todd discusses the confusion many users have regarding the relationship between hosting platforms and listening services, citing that many believe Blueberry is a listening platform, which it is not. They also address Spotify’s reluctance to help creators connect with Apple Podcasts. Todd shares his experiences with users who mistakenly reach out to Blueberry for help with Spotify-related issues.

As they continue, Todd reveals internal data suggesting that many podcasts are inactive or have “dead” RSS feeds, while illustrating Apple’s unknown criteria for keeping their catalog updated compared to other platforms. Todd speaks about a rare rejection moment from Apple regarding a show based on audio quality, which Todd describes as surprising.

The episode then takes a turn towards upcoming events in the podcasting space, with mentions of Adam Curry’s participation in Podcast Movement. Todd sadly recalls past sessions that have drawn sparse attendance, emphasizing the need for promotion to attract audiences to such events.

They briefly discuss YouTube’s efforts to crack down on low-quality content generated by AI, contrasting it with the podcasting landscape, and share concerns about the rising dominance of AI in content creation. Todd shares his methods for utilizing AI tools to assist in content preparation, while maintaining that human oversight is crucial.

Towards the conclusion, the hosts touch upon trends in audience creation and how individuals are increasingly perceiving themselves as creators amid a deluge of content. They also address current scams and phishing attempts, urging listeners to be vigilant in protecting their online presence and assets.

Finally, Todd expresses his excitement about the potential new fiber internet service coming to his area, and they share amusing anecdotes about scams encountered online. Rob mentions a recent scam involving fake podcast opportunities, urging caution in distinguishing legitimate offers from fraudulent ones. The episode wraps up with both hosts thanking their audience, sharing their social media handles, and teasing future topics before signing off.

The post Adam Curry Returns and Spotify’s Seven Million Shows – LOL first appeared on New Media Show.