Most organizations struggle with accountability. Either they lean into punitive, shame-based systems that kill motivation, or they avoid the topic entirely and hope things work out. Neither approach works.

In this conversation, organizational coach Lisa Gill and I explore what accountability actually means in progressive organizations and why it's one of the hardest things to get right.

We discuss:

• Why accountability feels so uncomfortable (and what shame has to do with it)
• The paradox of choice and responsibility: you can't truly say yes if you can't say no
• How to make commitments relational instead of abstract
• Why explicit agreements are essential (and how to create them)
• The difference between blaming and supporting
• Practical tools like confirmation practices and self-scoring systems
• How to have difficult conversations without making people wrong
• Why true accountability is actually an expression of love

If you're building a more human workplace but finding that people aren't following through on commitments, this conversation offers a different way forward.

Key insight: Accountability without shame requires friction and discomfort. There's no system that removes the need for difficult conversations. But when done well, it helps everyone become bigger versions of themselves.

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About Lisa:

Lisa is an organizational designer, coach, and host of the Leadermorphosis podcast. She works with organizations exploring more participatory and human ways of working.

Learn more: https://www.reimaginaire.com/

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Mentioned in this conversation:

• Peter Koestenbaum & Peter Block - "Confronting Your Freedom"
• Doug Kirkpatrick - Morningstar & commitment keeping
• Mia Mingus - Disability justice activist on accountability
• Adrienne Maree Brown - "Loving Corrections"
• Helen Sanderson - Confirmation practices
• Frederic Laloux - Self-correcting systems
• Jan Carlzon - "People with information cannot help but take responsibility"

I talked with Rich about the essence of community. We dive deep into what defines a community, the importance of community in personal and societal development, and practical ways to foster a sense of belonging and solidarity. Rich shares personal anecdotes and experiences from his journey in community building, touching on topics like emotional maturity, hierarchy, and the impact of hospitality.Here are my favorite quotes from our conversation:

• “Community is the people that bring you soup when you're sick.”
• “Consistent repetition, orchestrates attention and builds shared identity.”
• A key aspect for creating connection within a community is hospitality.
• “When a community is really alive  it is like a super organism. Whatever is the issue, someone is at hand. Whatever is the need, someone is there with the skill or the resources. Whatever you need is gonna get met immediately”
• “ When a community is really alive  it is like being accepted in a transformative way.”
•  “That internal polarization, is like a knot that just keeps getting tighter and tighter.”
•  “It’s my belief, my orientation in the world, my understanding that all of the challenges that we face as a civilization are solved by better coordination, better collaboration, namely more community, more shared identity, more investment in each other, more care for each other, and that we need an enormous number of people to be taking responsibility for weaving the social fabric for constructing shared identities.

My conversation with Steffen centers around performance evaluation and profit sharing.I’ve known Steffen since we first met at an org exchange in 2017, which was an exchange format between progressive companies. He later hired me at kartenmacherei where he had stewarded the company culture and we worked there together for 5 years.During that time, he has become a trusted friend and advisor. I highly appreciate Steffen for his sharp analytical skills. So when I came across a logical flaw in how I had understood performance evaluation and salary setting, it was an obvious choice to ask him to challenge my thinking. Especially, since we have 5+ years shared history of creating and iterating on these processes.He did not disappoint and we had a deep discussion while keeping it fun. As always, time spent with Steffen was energy-positive and I think you will enjoy it as well.For this episode in particular it is valuable to watch the video as I share my screen to visually explain the flaw in the logic that I encountered as well as sharing my current draft of the policies.

• Profit Sharing Policy
• Salary Setting Policy

If you want to find out more about me, you can do so at https://newworkbydesign.comMusic by audionautix.com

My conversation with Lisa centers around adult-to-adult relationships - in particular but not limited to in the workplace.

My conversation with Natacha focusses on how she came to be interested in self-organization as the founder of a B2C company and consequently going all-in and transforming the company.

I’ve only gotten to know Natacha recently for this conversation. It was Steffen, who I interviewed on the previous episode who suggested that Natacha would be a very interesting person to have a similar conversation with. And he was right.

I was intrigued right away when I found out which company Natacha had founded because I am a satisfied customer of their products. Both my kids have consumed many Freche Freunde snacks when out and about or while traveling.

If you are a parent you probably know the fruit and veggie pouches called Freche Freunde. My wife, Nicole, and I have used them so frequently that we have been joking about writing a book about pouch parenting.

Natacha is a founder through and through. In this conversation she shares how she came to learn about self-organization and why she committed to making it a reality in her company - even through initial struggles. We talked about how her relationships to her team changed in the process and the armor she had to put down to do so.

Despite initial resistance and personal challenges, she achieved meaningful impact and fulfillment.

My conversation with Steffen focusses on how he came to be interested in self-organization as a founder of a SaaS company and consequently going all-in and transforming the company.

The central theme is Steffen's journey to consciously work on and transform company culture.

He highlights the shift in his leadership approach, including breaking up the company's functional silos into cross-functional teams, and the challenges faced in delegating power and fostering intrinsic motivation among employees.

Steffen also openly reflects on his internal struggles and insecurities, touching on personal crises, therapy, and the impact of ego and extrinsic validation.

We explored how his day-to-day work evolved, his relationships with employees, and the creation of a more authentic and motivating work environment.

We concluded with a broader reflection on how these transformations in the workplace parallel changes in other areas of his life, including parenting.

I’ve known Steffen for 7 years. We worked together for 2 of them, after he hired me at the beginning of the company transformation. I still remember on my very first day helping to rearrange desks because all teams were reshuffled from functional into cross-functional teams.

I have very fond memories of these two years. Not only did I refine my thinking around organizational design during that time which eventually turned into the nine org key practices that my online course is built on, but I also formed many lasting relationships with people I care about. And for that I am very grateful.

I appreciate Steffen for his seemingly insatiable hunger for learning and growth and I admire his courage for making bold moves with uncertain outcomes.

You can find Steffen at https://thriveculture.com/.

And if you want to find out more about me, you can do so at https://newworkbydesign.com

Music by audionautix.com

My conversation with Lyn focusses on psychological safety which has been her research focus already during her Masters in Business Psychology. Fast forward to today, where she’s supporting teams and organizations in creating collaboration that is effective, adaptable, and joyful.

I’ve know Lyn for 3 years and I appreciate how deeply she cares about creating work environments that welcome people to show up as their whole selves.

What I found most interesting in our conversation is how she relates psychological safety to the nervous system, trauma, and status.

Links:

You can find Lyn at https://www.lynvonderladen.de/ and get in touch via mail (at) lynvonderladen.de

And if you want to find out more about me, you can do so at https://newworkbydesign.com

Music by audionautix.com