Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas

If you’ve been listening to Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas for a while, you’ve probably observed that much of what our guests share is more like a compass than a roadmap.  For many of the topics that we discuss, there isn’t a right or a wrong way to address the topic.  There are principles that are good to follow.  Seldom is there a one-size-fits-all response.

In this episode, you will hear from five of our previous guests sharing their thoughts on what goes into a great hiring decision.  

My hope is that you will digest what you hear, contextualize this around your own team and gifts and abilities, and come up with something that works for you. 

This episode also serves as a great introduction to our podcast for those you may know who are involved in the hiring process at their respective companies.  Be sure to share it with them as I’m confident they will find many of the talking points very insightful.

I hope you enjoy these timeless reflections about hiring great people!

Time Stamps

[2:23] – What Dr. Sandra Gray looks for when hiring for senior leadership.

[4.55] – Bob Lonac reveals what the highlights are in the long road of hiring.

[6:49] – Bob shares a story about using his intuition to hire a Radio Vice President.

[8:37] – The most critical thing about the hiring process, according to Jim Loscheider.

[10:28] – Jim talks about the differences between hiring from within the company and hiring from the outside.

[12:03] – Holly Moore tells us what she believes the primary characteristics are when she’s looking to hire someone.

[14:36] – The worst mistake hiring managers make, in Holly Moore’s experience.

[15:58] – This is the one question Holly would ask if she only had five minutes to interview someone.

[17:55] – Christine Talbot discusses her experience with recruiting.

[20:45] – Tommy recaps some of the major talking points and shares some of his own experience in hiring.

Links and Resources

JobfitMatters – Website

Episode 7 - Dr. Sandra Gray - Trial By Fire

Episode 5 - Christine Talbot - From Kaiser Permanente to World Vision

Episode 3 - Holly Moore - The Heart Of A Teacher

Episode 2 - Jim Loscheider - Talking Stewardship and Generosity 

Bob Lonac Consults - Website

We continue our conversation today with Dr. Terry Franson.  Terry coached Azusa Pacific University’s Track & Field Team from 1980 to 1995.  He coached the Men’s Track & Field Team to 11 outdoor championships in 13 years—the most in NAIA history. 

Throughout his career, Terry coached 123 NAIA All Americans, 81 National Championships, and 8 Olympians.  

In our episode today, Dr. Terry Franson shares his 20 coaching tips and explains how he tries to live his life by them.  

Be sure to listen to the first part of my conversation with Dr. Terry, I Coach the Person, Not the Sport (Part 1).  

I hope you’re as amazed by Terry’s wisdom and stories as I was while interviewing him.  Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so that you never miss an episode of Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership, and I also encourage you to share the podcast with a friend who would also be likely to get something out of it!

Enjoy!

Time Stamps

[1:23] – Tommy reintroduces Dr. Terry Franson and continues the conversation from our last episode.

[2:12] – Dr. Terry shares his tips for coaching.

[4:56] – Dr. Terry explains what he means by “the first no is the beginning of the opportunity.”

[6:16] – How Dr. Terry balanced life while on the big stage. 

[8:15] – The philosophy of the word “Team”, according to Dr. Terry.

[9:40] – What ‘facetime’ means to Terry Franson.

[12:08] – Playing offense is given new meaning.

[14:33] – We learn how Terry was inspired by Anne Sullivan.

[16:00] – Dr. Terry reveals that he’s had forty four vocal cord surgeries and how these impacted his life.

[18:02] – How coaching can take a toll on the family, and how Dr. Terry’s wife plays a role in keeping family life balanced. 

[20:01] – Does Dr. Terry Franson miss coaching?  Here are his final thoughts.

Links and Resources

JobfitMatters – Website

Connect with Dr. Terry Franson on LinkedIn

Anne Sullivan - Biography

Azusa Pacific University

I’ve long held a fascination and admiration for great coaches.  They influence the lives of young people, and I believe they have a significant role in modeling them to not only be great athletes but to also be better people and better citizens.  For some time, I’ve felt there must be an artform to figuring out how to coach individuals and—to paraphrase a great Army slogan—to be all they can be.

My guest today is Dr. Terry Franson.  Terry coached Azusa Pacific University’s Track & Field Team from 1980 to 1995.  He coached the Men’s Track & Field Team to 11 outdoor championships in 13 years—the most in NAIA history. 

Throughout his career, Terry coached 123 NAIA All Americans, 81 National Championships, and 8 Olympians.  

In our conversation today, Dr. Terry Franson shares his philosophy on coaching and leadership and tells some of the most amazing stories about the athletes he’s coached over the years.  I’m sure you’ll recognize some of the famous United States Olympians from the 1990s that Terry helped to reach their true potential.

I hope you’re as amazed by Terry’s wisdom and stories as I was while interviewing him.  Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so that you never miss an episode of Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership, and I also encourage you to share the podcast with a friend who would also be likely to get something out of it!

Enjoy!

Time Stamps

[1:33] – Tommy introduces us to his guest, Dr. Terry Franson.

[2:11] – Terry gives us a glimpse into his childhood and how he got into athletics. 

[4:21] – How did Dr. Terry’s high school coach get the best out of him?

[6:01] – We learn a few takeaways from Dr. Terry’s dissertation about getting the best out of young athletes.

[8:10] – Terry addresses his process when he realizes he’s not the best person to help someone.

[9:23] – Terry explains his stance on whether he coaches the person or the sport.

[10:42] – We hear a story about an Aha! moment Terry had when applying the lessons from his dissertation.  

[12:24] – How someone walked from relative obscurity to becoming an Olympian.

[14:17] –  Older listeners may remember this story about Dan O’Brien and Dave Johnson who were featured in a $20 million Reebok campaign in the early 90s.

[15:44] – We’re surprised to learn about Dave Johnson, an athlete who had trained for twelve years and discovered he had a fractured bone in his foot five weeks before the Olympic Games in Barcelona.

[18:18] – What happened during the Games in Barcelona?  

[19:20] – Dr. Terry tells us about a little boy sitting in the stands watching Dave compete with a broken foot.

[21:21] – Mike Barnett goes from throwing footballs, to throwing javelins, to getting thrown off the team.  

[23:38] – Dr. Terry shares how he helped coach Mike and turn his life around. 

Links and Resources

JobfitMatters – Website

Connect with Dr. Terry Franson on LinkedIn

Lead From The Heart: Transformational Leadership For The 21st Century, by Mark C. Crowley

Reebok Commercials - Dan and Dave - 1992

Anne Sullivan

Dave Johnson

Innocent Egbunike

Mike Barnett

Azusa Pacific University

Our episode today is a continuation of an earlier conversation that I had with Dr. Sandra Gray.  Our regular listeners will remember Dr. Gray from the September 3rd conversation entitled Trial By Fire - The Story of One University President - Leading Through The 2007-2008 Global Financial Crisis.  If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, I encourage you to do so.

In addition to her success as President of Asbury University, Dr. Gray has extensive insight into governing boards.  Over her career, she served on two private sector boards and at least three nonprofit boards. She did this while additionally reporting to the board of trustees as Asbury.

In our conversation today, Dr. Gray tells us about her experiences with nonprofit boards, the relationship between board chairs and presidents, and the importance of risk in the role of the president.

I hope that her wisdom continues to be helpful to our listeners! Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so that you never miss an episode of Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership, and I also encourage you to share the podcast with a friend who would also be likely to get something out of it!

Join me now as we catch the second half of my conversation with Dr. Sandra Gray.

Time Stamps

[2:18] – Dr. Sandra Gray tells us about her first board experience.

[3:51] – Dr. Gray shares what she learned from the utility board that was transferable.

[5:37] – How the Carver Model applied to the Asbury board, in Dr. Gray’s experience.

[7:18] – Dr. Gray discusses her perspective on term limits and using a matrix to populate boards.  

[8:19] – What is the ideal size of a nonprofit board?

[11:01] – We learn about Dr. Sandra Gray’s mentor who she identifies is a real guru of board governance.

[12:17] – Dr. Gray responds to a quote from Peter Drucker.

[14:00] – How often did Dr. Gray communicate with her board chair?

[15:15] – Tommy reads a quote about the relationship between CEOs and Board Chairs.

[16:26] – The role of the designated antagonist on the board, according to Dr. Gray.

[18:31] – Dr. Sandra reveals what she thought about the Enron scandal in 2001.

[20:59] – One of the challenges faith-based organizations face, in Dr. Sandra’s opinion.   

[22:22] – Dr. Sandra Gray answers the question “What is the best thing a board can do for a new president?” 

[24:21] – How does risk factor into the role of a president?

Links and Resources

JobfitMatters – Website

Trial By Fire - The Story of One University President - Leading Through The 2007-2008 Global Financial Crisis.  

The Policy Governance Model

Our guest today is David Simms, the CEO and Founder of Talanton.  When you interview David Simms, you can go in a lot of different directions.  We could ask him about his year as a White House Fellow working as a Specialist Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of State.  Or we could ask him about work/life balance and how he juggles a very busy schedule with being a husband, a parent of adult children, and a small group leader at his local church.

However, I want to leave those topics for another discussion because today we want to explore the curious intersection of faith, passion for the underserved, career, and economics in David’s life.

In this episode, I ask David what drew him to the nonprofit world, what lessons he’s learned from his decades of experience as a board member, and what lessons he would share with the next generation.

Please be sure to share this podcast with the nonprofit board members and young entrepreneurs you know.  The advice David gives for these groups can accelerate their passion and drive to be better nonprofit leaders.

I hope you enjoy this very insightful conversation with David!  

Time Stamps

[1:06] – An introduction to our guest, David Simms.

[1:55] – Tommy tells us when he first met David.

[2:43] – David shares the “short story” of what drew him to the nonprofit world.

[3:52] – We learn what David found challenging as CEO of the American Red Cross Washington/Baltimore Blood Services Region. 

[5:58] – Teams at the American Red Cross, in David’s experience.

[8:07] – David shares what he believes is his greatest lesson learned from the private sector.

[10:23] – We learn about David’s first board experience.

[12:56] – After 35 years, what keeps David going as a board person? 

[14:14] – The words and phrases that come to mind when David thinks about what makes a board a good board.

[16:20] – This is the advice that stung David the hardest.

[18:37] – What is the best thing that a board can do to help get a new CEO started on the right foot?

[20:50] – David identifies the questions his current board asks themselves about the future.

[23:05] – David reflects on one of the questions his board asks themselves, “Who else can they partner with?”

[24:23] – Tommy has David share some lessons we can learn from examples of board responsibility and poor corporate leadership.

[27:03] – David explains his tagline “Creating jobs and bringing hope via faith-driven investing.”

[29:51] – Continuing education has made a huge impact on David’s life and David speaks on the educational options that are available today.

[32:03] – What the Harvard Business School DID NOT teach David about nonprofit leadership.

[33:50] – Advice for young entrepreneurs who have it in their blood to create an impactful startup.

[34:45] – We listen to a story about David’s advice to young entrepreneurs that benefited him. 

Links and Resources

Follow David Simms on LinkedIn

JobfitMatters – Website

Talanton – Website

If you haven’t made mistakes—some more costly than others—then you are not human.  We’ve all made mistakes and would all like a second chance.

Because I believe second chances are so important, this is one of the questions I frequently ask our guests on our Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas podcast.  

I usually frame the question like this: “What would go into your decision about giving an employee who had clearly done something wrong or inappropriate a second chance?”

In this episode, we explore how some of our guests responded to this question and we reflect on the life and leadership lessons we’ve learned from them along the way.  After all, these guests have been there and done that, and—as the saying goes—have the t-shirt to prove it.

This episode is a great introductory episode to share with the nonprofit board members you know as it introduces a variety of guests and will hopefully inspire them to further explore these guests in their featured episodes.

We hope you enjoy these timeless reflections about second chances!

Time Stamps

[0:13] – Tommy Thomas shares some quotes on second chances.

[1:58] – We hear how Dr. Sandra Gray confronts second chances. 

[4:05] – Dr. Andy Westmoreland reminds us that we’ve all fallen short.

[5:39] – Dr. Westmoreland is inspired to see someone reclaim.

[5:53] – Holly Moore presents a few of the questions she considers before determining whether a second chance is worthy.

[8:23] – Jim Loscheider gives his board members permission to make mistakes.

[9:10] – Jim explains the only mistake he and his board members will not tolerate.

[10:47] – Tommy shares an excerpt from an early interview with Dr. Alan Cureton.

[11:33] – Dr. Alan Cureton shares what happens if he senses someone is not being sincere with their repentance.

[13:10] – Tommy leaves us with some parting words for first-time listeners.

Links and Resources

JobfitMatters – Website

Episode 7 - Dr. Sandra Gray - Trial By Fire

Episode 8 - Dr. Andy Westmoreland

Episode 3 - Holly Moore - The Heart Of A Teacher

Episode 2 - Jim Loscheider - Talking Stewardship and Generosity 

Meet Dr. Alan S. Cureton

Our guest today is Dr. Carl Zylstra, the former president of Dordt University.  Those of you who’ve been listening to the Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership podcast will recognize Dr. Zylstra from the August 27th Episode Partners, Brothers, and Friends: How Two College Presidents Have Come Together For The Greater Good Of Christian Higher Education.

In that episode, Carl Zylstra and David Dockery share some about their friendship and ultimately the collaboration they’ve had over the years.  If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, I encourage you to do so.  It really is an insightful episode that you can learn a lot from and it will add more context to the conversation I have with Carl today.

One of the reasons I’ve asked Carl back to be our guest today is because of the breadth of his experience in working with and serving on nonprofit boards.  My observation and experience is that being an effective nonprofit board member is not easy.  And yet, the strength of a board can make or break the effectiveness of an organization.

In this episode, I ask Carl to share with us his experiences with nonprofit boards, the best strategies for board composition, common reasons for board turnover, and much more.  

Please be sure to share this podcast with the nonprofit board members you know and not to keep us a secret.

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Carl!  

Show Notes

[2:15] – An introduction to our guest, Dr. Carl Zylstra.

[3:05] – Carl shares his experiences that led to the presidency of Dordt University.

[4:33] – What does Carl remember about his first board?

[6:09] – We learn what Carl believes is the best thing a board can do when bringing in a new president. 

[7:31] – The best strategies for board composition, according to Carl.

[9:45] – Carl clarifies the Four W’s motif and the type of experience needed to fulfill them. 

[11:59] – Carl tells us what he believes goes into an ideal onboarding strategy.

[13:00] – How does a good board manual help outline the expectations for a board?

[14:28] – In Carl’s opinion, self study should be done at every meeting.

[16:35] – After establishing credibility for a new president, boards must guard the president against loss of that credibility. 

[17:50] – Carl suggests additional ways boards can be improved.

[19:04] – What are some words and phrases that Carl believes describe an outstanding chair for the board?

[20:50] – Common reasons for board turnover, in Carl’s experience.

[22:52] – Having the wrong expectations is a key part of why people leave boards.

[23:27] – Advice on how to reduce board turnover.

[25:25] – Tommy reveals that Carl has an amazing cufflinks collection.

Links and Resources

Meet Dr. Carl Zylstra

Follow Carl Zylstra on LinkedIn

JobfitMatters – Website

Dordt University

Called To Serve: Creating and Nurturing the Effective Volunteer Board by Max DePree

Partners, Brothers, and Friends: How Two College Presidents Have Come Together For The Greater Good Of Christian Higher Education

Max De Pree

If you're new to the podcast, today's episode is a continuation of the conversation we started last week with Dr. John Reynolds on the topic of boardsmanship. John is a foremost authority on nonprofit boards and we're honored to have him as a guest. 

If you're a member of a nonprofit board, you will want to pay particular attention to John's comments on recruiting and retaining board members who are in their twenties and thirties. 

There's definitely a difference between the way men and women in this age group view how they spend their time and thus what they are willing to commit to compared to how people in their late fifties, sixties, and seventies view this. 

As the boardsmanship baton is passed from one generation to the next, the composition of boards and what boardsmanship looks like is going to change. We have to be willing participants in that change. 

As a reminder, please be sure to share this podcast with the nonprofit board members you know, particularly if they are new members to board service.  They will find these conversations with Dr. John Reynolds very helpful in their journey to becoming an effective nonprofit board member.

Join me now as I pick up where we left off with Dr. John Reynolds last week. 

Enjoy!

Time Stamps

[2:20] – Dr. John Reynolds comments on the importance of the board chair.

[5:11] – The role of the board chair, as described by John.

[7:10] – John explains how a good board chair can lead the board in self-evaluation.

[7:58] – How better boards work peer evaluations into self-assessments.

[9:00] – The value of evaluating the chair.

[10:28] – John’s observations on why boards turnover.

[11:54] – Why some of John’s best board members only served for a couple of years.

[14:13] – John shares a story about interviewing a potential board member who didn’t have time to be on a board but still wanted to help.

[16:23] – John reacts to Dr. Alan Cureton’s “oblique” recruiting tool.

[17:55] – How does John counsel his board members on succession planning?

[20:31] – The two pieces of term outs, according to John.

[22:35] – John’s experience with presidents grooming their successors as part of their succession plans.

[24:43] – Is anybody doing a good job with getting Millennials and Gen X people on boards?

[26:06] – John convinces his (mostly traditional) board members to take the company remote.

[27:10] – John talks about how Millennials and Gen Z people are mislabelled.

Links and Resources

Los Angeles Pacific University

Robert’s Rules Of Order

When one interviews Dr. John Reynolds, the conversation could go in a number of directions.  We could explore his early career as the Chief Information Officer at World Vision.  We could explore his long distinguished career in higher education.  And if we wanted a lesson in world geography and world culture, we could get Dr. Reynolds to share with us what he’s learned by traveling to more than 80 countries as he consults with national NGO leaders.

As interesting and informative as those conversations might be, today’s conversation with Dr. Reynolds will be about nonprofit boardsmanship.

Dr. John Reynolds currently serves on nonprofit boards in the United States, Canada, Australia, and South Africa.  As I was thinking about guests for the podcast, Dr. Maggie Bailey—who in her own right is very knowledgeable on boardsmanship—told me, “John Reynolds is the foremost authority on nonprofit boardsmanship.  He should be the first person you interview on this topic.”

I hope you learn as much as I did from my conversation with Dr. Reynolds.  Please be sure to share this podcast with the nonprofit board members you know, particularly if they are new members to board service.  They will find these conversations with Dr. John Reynolds very helpful in their journey to becoming an effective nonprofit board member.

Enjoy!

Time Stamps

[1:20] – An introduction to today’s guest, Dr. John Reynolds.

[2:40] – John talks about his first board and how it showed up.

[3:57] – What did John learn from Dr. Ted about board leadership?

[5:30] – John’s best strategy for staffing a board.

[8:08] – An example of how John looks to the future when staffing a board today.

[8:30] – What is the purpose of a nonprofit board?

[10:02] – John shares how he believes boards get their work done.

[12:10] – John finds that a lot of boards don’t utilize the premise of using outside board members on their committees.

[12:55] – The dangers of having functional committees, according to John.

[15:03] – What a board should and should not do for the organization. 

[15:41] – John’s experience with The Carver Model for board governance.

[18:04] – The best thing a board can do for a new CEO. 

[20:30] – Boards should set clear expectations, clear metrics and how they will be measured, and create the space for new CEOs to be successful.

[21:15] – John responds to my quote about good directors on the board.

[23:11] – The kinds of decisions boards need to consider about the CEO.

Links and Resources

Los Angeles Pacific University

From a first-generation college graduate, to working in the student affairs department of his alma mater, to the President of Samford University, Dr. Andy Westmoreland’s journey has been anything but typical. 30 days into his retirement I had the chance to sit with him and pick his brain about his approach to being a leader, his thoughts on second chances, and why he decided to leave the position that he loved. 

Although he is glad to have moved on from Arkansas, Andy’s small town upbringing taught him a lot of important life lessons, and in turn, he has been able to teach many valuable lessons to the many people whom he has worked with throughout his career in higher education.

Not only does Andy embody a wealth of knowledge and experience, but talking to him also brought back fond memories of my days at Samford when I was a graduate student in their MBA program. I hope you are able to take as much value away from this episode as I did! 

Time Stamps

[1:54] – An introduction to today’s guest, Dr. Andy Westmoreland

[2:38] – What did and didn’t change during Andy’s time as president of Samford University. 

[3:11] – Why Andy is grateful for his small town upbringing. 

[4:29] – Andy’s very first job, and his first ‘real’ job, and the lessons he learned from them.

[5:58] – The misfortune in how people often perceive student affairs departments at universities. 

[7:19] – The most effective approach to being a leader, according to Andy.

[9:13] – Andy shares what he believes to be good practice when it comes to hiring staff members in higher education institutions. 

[11:43] – How Andy approaches interviews.  

[14:10] – I share a few quotes about second chances.  

[14:49] – Andy’s opinion on giving people second chances. 

[16:41] – The wealth of experience that Andy has with fundraising.  

[19:18] – Traits that Andy thinks are important for a vice president of advancement to have.

[20:25] – Why it’s a good sign if some people are irritated by your development approach.

[21:10] – How Andy made the decision to leave his position as President of Samford University. 

Links and Resources

Samford University
Ouachita Baptist University