Charles Leadbeater is a self-proclaimed “intellectual odd-job man,” with a background in journalism, entrepreneurship, and most recently, large-scale systems change. As the co-director of the System Innovation Initiative at the Rockwool Foundation in Copenhagen, he is helping to develop practical approaches to shifting big public systems. His conversation with Rod and Jal focuses on what is needed to make transformational change in the massive system we know as education. Highlights from the episode include: a reflection on recent test score releases in the U.S.; how being a mediocre student shaped Charles’ career path; defining student agency and why it is integral to learning transformation; how systems can support agency across all stakeholders instead of limiting it; why learning should be about acquiring a sense of purpose - focusing on possibilities not problems; a fun boat analogy that will test your movie knowledge; and a lightning round that sparked ideas for a spin-off “foodie” podcast!

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