Non-Compliant Podcast

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 54, Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, hosts renowned mediator Hesha Arbams. During this episode, Jay and Hesha discuss the best tactics for solving big problems with big personalities through the lens of Hesha’s book, Holding the Calm: The Secret to Resolving Conflict and Diffusing Tension.

The episode starts with Jay sharing that he agrees with 75% of Hesha’s book, a high rating from him. Hesha responds by sharing why she wrote her book: she handles the most difficult conversations in the world and she wanted to make her expertise accessible to people handling conflict at any level (2:30).

Early on, Jay says the best negotiators find the common ground between the parties’ arguments. Hesha adds, in her experience, no one ever changes their mind when they are being bombarded with facts and being told how wrong they are. Rather, people change their mind when you can start slowly and ease into the argument (7:30). The key to knowing where to start? Diagnosing the motivators (10:20). Jay jumps in to clarify that facts and law matter, however, it's how you approach these facts that makes the difference. Hesha counters that it’s all about perspective and being open to hearing other sides helps you create your own opinion (11:35).

Later, Hesha cracks open the secret to getting what you want: give people three options. It sounds simple, but she explains that if you give people three choices, one too high, one too low, and one right in the middle, then 85% of people will choose the middle option, identifying themselves as “moderate” and “reasonable.” By putting your preferred choice in the middle, you've then done what Hesha calls “framing” and you’ve won over most of your audience (16:20). What do you do when even this doesn’t work? Both Jay and Hesha suggest flipping a coin (20:00).

Hesha drops another truth bomb about negotiation by explaining that people are often in what she calls “the fog of war” when negotiating. When in this state, which lasts for about 20 minutes, Hesha claims people are less able to be reasonable and the number one way to calm them down is through validation (24:00). She then gives advice for how to disrupt the argument cycle and insert validation exactly when you need it (27:00).

Near the end of the episode, Hesha talks about people thinking emotionally and that 80-90% of people in arguments aren’t trying to win, they are trying not to lose, thus changing the approach entirely. Hesha closes out the podcast by reflecting on her own moral compass and what motivates her to solve conflict professionally (33:50).

Connect with Hesha Abrams:
Website: https://www.heshaabramsmediation.com/
Buy her book: https://www.holdingthecalm.com/

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/

Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreativeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 53, Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, hosts David Enrich, well known New York Times Journalist and author of Servants of the Damned: Giant Law Firms, Donald Trump, and the Corruption of Justice. During this episode, Jay and David talk about the undocumented and under-discussed corruption in Corporate America and how BigLaw plays a role.

David starts by sharing the inspiration for his book, Servants of the Damned: Giant Law Firms, Donald Trump, and the Corruption of Justice. Over the last 20 years, David has been covering stories on business and finance, and now his expertise brings him to examine BigLaw (2:50).

Noting a major shift, Jay brings up the 90’s and asks David what he thinks happened to cause the evolution of lawyers from being servants of the court to money hungry celebrities. David cites the end of prohibition of advertising as the key turning point in the legal history (5:35).

According to David, the law firm, Jones Day, started marketing immediately after the Bates v. State Bar of Arizona decision in 1978 overturned the prohibition on legal advertising. He even goes on to describe the hilariously out-of-touch efforts to modernize in the early 2000’s by Ted Walader, involving a polo and khaki fashion show and Ralph Lauren-directed trainings about workplace apparel (12:15).
Jay points out a major contradiction; BigLaw firms take on and represent the worst companies in the world, but when lawyers get hired by BigLaw, they wear it as a badge of honor. Jay and David go on to discuss if this esteem around mega firms is earned and how the power dynamics play into their cases (18:45).

The constitutional right for all accused criminals to have legal representation has been expanded to now mean businesses have legal counsel on everything, always, all the time. Legal services shouldn’t be used to evade taxes, hide money, etc., and David says the Corporate Bar has perfected the shut-down of criticism regarding this abuse. Jay and David agree that somehow criminal defense firms have a bad reputation for defending criminals, but big corporate firms are considered patriotic for defending themselves (25:20).

David highlights the Law-School-to-BigLaw-Pipeline and Jay tacks on to it, joking about his naivety going into law school. (29:00).

To close the show, David and Jay agree that there is a new wave of young students that stick to their guns and are standing up against working on cases that challenge their morality, despite those same cases being extraordinarily lucrative (37:00).

Connect with David Enrich:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/davidenrich
Website: https://www.nytimes.com/by/david-enrich

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/

Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc

The Rebellion, written by lawyer/artist Ari Scharg, shines a spotlight on corrupt practices in the legal industry. It finds its roots in the real life $100m+ client Ponzi scheme perpetuated by celebrity lawyer, Tom Girardi, the husband of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills star, Erika Jayne. The song focuses on how Scharg’s firm, Edelson P.C., exposed the fraud and how there is currently a little known battle waging in his industry between reformers and the old guard, who want to keep exploiting a broken system. Annotated Lyrics: https://genius.com/Ari-hp-the-rebelli...

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zoFwzLhcI

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 51, Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, hosts guest Dan Karon, plaintiff’s attorney popularly known as Your Loveable Lawyer. During this episode, Jay and Dan connect over their personal brand, how to capture an audience’s attention without losing morality, and one of Dan’s passion projects: authoring a book.

Dan and Jay kick things off with a discussion about Dan’s marketing as a lawyer and the importance of authenticity. Dan talks about his journey and inspiration behind making his content relatable (4:25).

Later, Dan toys with the idea of creating a TV show (7:35) and Jay poses the question: How do you create content that captivates an audience without losing your loveable nature? Dan and Jay brainstorm an answer – mimic elements of reality TV and make the viewers feel like they are “right there in the shit with you,” creating a narrative that an audience can follow from beginning to end (16:20).

In the middle of the episode, Jay dives into Dan’s book, 12 years in the making. Dan talks about how he channels fictional writing in his legal writing to keep his reader interested (24:15), but Jay pushes back with his own views and writing process as he works on his own novel (29:50).

Near the end of the episode, Jay suggests a lot of lawyers are really creative and were considering other creative careers before choosing law (35:20). Contrastingly, Dan shares that his experience is not the same and how he encourages creative writing in briefs. Ultimately, they agree it's never too late to start something creative, like writing or painting, and both reflect on how they are doing just that in their adult lives (40:00).

Jay and Dan bring the episode to a close by talking about how their careers in law have aged, and they connect over their shared experience of teaching law (43:50).

Connect with Dan Karon:
Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/dankaron
Website: https://yourlovablelawyer.com/

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/

Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreativeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 50 Host Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, sits down with Eric Troutman, a prominent class action defense lawyer and the Czar of TCPAWorld.

To start the show, Jay and Eric talk about their careers. Despite having wildly different paths, both attorneys started in BigLaw, opened their own firms, and now have podcasts discussing a wide range of issues (6:30).

Next, Jay and Eric discuss counseling clients on the defense side (19:00). According to Jay, when valuing cases on the defense side he looks at the plaintiffs’ attorneys and asks himself how much they need out of the settlement. For Eric, the first things he looks at are market value, jurisdiction, judge, and opposing counsel. Eric also breaks the cardinal rule of class action practice -- not only does he talk about how the sausage is made, he is the first defense attorney to publicly state that most plaintiff's firms settle cases based on the lowest amount a court would accept. (27:30)

Later in the show, Jay talks about how the Edelson PC values settlements (45:30)

To end the show, Jay asks Eric why he’s not a plaintiffs lawyer (52:00).

Connect with Eric:
Website: https://tcpaworld.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAEJheuf73uLZCpvHTN05Aw

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/

Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreative
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc

Recent Non-Compliant Podcast Episodes:
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 49: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-49-the-one-where-we-get/id1491233296?i=1000580465259
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 48: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-48-the-one-where-we/id1491233296?i=1000570488861
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 47: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-47-the-one-where-we/id1491233296?i=1000567521768
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 46: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-46-the-second-one/id1491233296?i=1000566009952

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 49, Host Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, and Guest Ari Scharg, a Partner at Edelson PC, discuss Edelson Creative.

Connect with Ari:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/scharg?lang=en
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/ari-scharg/

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/



Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreative
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc



Recent Non-Compliant Podcast Episodes:
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 48: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-48-the-one-where-we/id1491233296?i=1000570488861
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 47: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-47-the-one-where-we/id1491233296?i=1000567521768
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 46: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-46-the-second-one/id1491233296?i=1000566009952

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 48, Host Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, and Guest Jennifer Rosato Perea, a nationally recognized leader in legal education and DePaul University College of Law's Dean, discuss DePaul's new First Generation in Law Scholars Program (FGLP).

Earlier this year, DePaul University College of Law announced that with the help of two alumni, they were launching a program aimed at providing a pathway for first-generation law students. FGLP invests in first-generation students from historically underrepresented groups and students who demonstrate an interest in attending law school in the future, according to the school’s announcement.

The three-year, intensive summer program will provide rising freshmen, sophomores and juniors enrolled in Chicago-area colleges and universities with an immersive, holistic experience that will introduce them to law school, the legal profession and the practice of law, according to the school.

To start the show, Jay and Dean Rosato discuss the origin of FGLP, and the goal of the program (6:00).

Next, Jay and Dean Rosato discuss how *you* can get involved. To discuss partnerships or financial contributions, email Dean Rosato at [email protected], or donate at https://give.depaul.edu/FGLP.

Later in the episode, Jay takes Dean Rosato up on her very generous offer to be Non-Compliant’s Dean of the Day. Jay starts by asking Dean Rosato if there’s a difference with what law students want out of their career today compared with several years ago (31:00).

To end the show, the conversation then turns to student activism (39:00).

Connect with Dean Rosato:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dean-jennifer-rosato-26207353/
Website: https://law.depaul.edu/faculty-and-staff/faculty-a-z/Pages/jennifer-rosato-perea.aspx

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/



Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreative
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc



Recent Non-Compliant Podcast Episodes:
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 47: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-47-the-one-where-we/id1491233296?i=1000567521768
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 46: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-46-the-second-one/id1491233296?i=1000566009952
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 45: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-45-the-one-with-a-lot/id1491233296?i=1000564837907

In Non-Compliant Episode 47, we switch things up. Guest Host, Kelsey McCann, Edelson PC’s Chief of Staff and Director of Recruiting, is joined by Angela Reilly, a First Year Associate at Edelson PC. Angela received her J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School, where she dedicated her time to providing criminal and civil legal services to indigent clients. Angela was involved with the school’s clinical program, specifically the Criminal and Juvenile Justice Project. Angela also conducted research for Professor Genevieve Lakier on a variety of First Amendment issues, and externed for the Honorable Sophia H. Hall in the Chancery Division of the Circuit Court of Cook County. Most relevant to the episode, Angela spent her 2L summer working as a Summer Associate at Edelson PC.

Angela and Kelsey dive into a spirited discussion about how to be a successful summer associate, providing guidance to listeners along the way.




Connect with Angela:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-reilly-b560a279/
Website Bio: https://edelson.com/team/angela-reilly/

Connect with Kelsey:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelsey-mccann-b45938159/
Website Bio: https://edelson.com/team/chief-of-staff/



Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreative
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc


Recent Non-Compliant Podcast Episodes:
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 46: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-46-the-second-one/id1491233296?i=1000566009952
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 45: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-45-the-one-with-a-lot/id1491233296?i=1000564837907
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 44: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-44-the-one-with/id1491233296?i=1000561633377

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 46, Host Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, and Guest Elizabeth Chamblee Burch, the Fuller E. Callaway Chair of Law at the University of Georgia School of Law, and author of Mass Tort Deals: Backroom Bargaining in Multidistrict Litigation, discuss Elizabeth’s most recent work, a two-year procedural justice study titled, Perceptions of Justice in Multidistrict Litigation: Voices from the Crowd.

To start the show, Jay and Elizabeth get into the weeds of what is going on in the Plaintiff’s Bar and Elizabeth’s study. After spending two years conducting research for this project, Elizabeth came to the following conclusion— MDLs work really well for plaintiff attorneys, but not their clients. The reason for this? MDLs are like factories—they were built to serve a goal of efficiency, which often leaves clients unsatisfied and feeling like they are not being heard (15:36).

Later in the show, Elizabeth offers a solution to improve client satisfaction with the MDL process. According to Elizabeth, for people to feel good about judicial system, it’s not only the result they look at; they also look at procedural fairness— people want accountability, for others and the system to acknowledge the harm they’ve been subjected to, and to protect other people from these products/ companies (15:36).


Next, Elizabeth and Jay discuss the improper (and shocking) way many plaintiff’s firm calculate their costs, which includes charging their clients for steak dinners, flying private, and charging interest (34:34).


To end the show, Jay and Elizabeth discuss what the future holds. If the past is an indicator, Elizabeth is not optimistic, change is really slow, and the status quo benefits attorneys and judges (40:21). Jay on the other hand, believes there is going to be big change because of the huge shift in law students who are looking to do plaintiff’s side work.

Connect with Elizabeth:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/elizabethcburch
Website: https://www.elizabethchambleeburch.com/
Read her study: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3900527

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/



Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreative
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc



Recent Non-Compliant Podcast Episodes:
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 45: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-45-the-one-with-a-lot/id1491233296?i=1000564837907
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 44: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-44-the-one-with/id1491233296?i=1000561633377
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 43: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-43-the-one-with/id1491233296?i=1000551417114

In Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 45, Host Jay Edelson, nationally recognized plaintiff’s attorney and founder of Edelson PC, and Guest Jonathan Pollard, a high stakes competition lawyer and founder of Pollard PLLC, discuss Elon Musk’s tweet about building an in-house legal team of “hard-core streetfighters".

Jay and Jonathan start the show by giving their initial reactions to Musk’s tweet, discussing how the hiring paradigm that large corporations such as Tesla use make it difficult, if not impossible, for Musk to assemble the legal team he wants (3:15). Pollard explains that “elite” Big Law firms create risk-adverse, “paint-by-numbers” players.

Later in the show, Jay and Jonathan discuss in-house positions more generally (10:45).

The discussion then turns to possible solutions not only for the challenge Musk faces in assembling his legal team, but also to the challenges corporate in-house teams face more generally (16:45). Jay suggests Musk incentivize firms on the project by offering money for big wins rather than an hourly bill rate to address issues of motivation and passion for the work. Jonathan highlights the need for companies to seek out small firms that are subject-matter experts, rather than using huge firms who may perform poorly in the areas where they lack expertise.

After this, Jay and Jonathan shift to their personal experiences with “streetfighter” lawyers (23:21), the dynamic of audacity and success, and Musk’s crusade against Twitter’s plague of fake accounts (32:35).

Finally, Jay asks Jonathan what advice he might give law students considering various career paths, to which Jonathan answers: do your due diligence to avoid a miserable experience, know that you can be successful beyond the “triangle” of Big Law, Big Corporate, and Big Government, and seek out firms that care about mentorship (39:11).

Connect with Jon:
Pollard PLLC Profile: https://pollardllc.com/jonathan-pollard/

Connect with Jay:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jayedelson
Edelson PC Profile: https://edelson.com/team/jay-edelson/


Connect with us:
Website: https://www.edelsoncreative.com/#podcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edelsonlaw
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdelsonCreative
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/edelson-pc


Recent Non-Compliant Podcast Episodes:
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 44: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-44-the-one-with/id1491233296?i=1000561633377
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 43: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-43-the-one-with/id1491233296?i=1000551417114
Non-Compliant Podcast Episode 42: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-compliant-podcast-episode-42-the-one-with-iapp/id1491233296?i=1000548376684