Two podcast hosts walk into a recording session. One's drinking Eagle Rare bourbon at 3pm in LA. The other is sipping a Pinot Grigio she smuggled back from Italy. Neither has ever co-hosted before. What could go wrong?

Turns out — nothing. This week, Matt hands over (half of) the mic to Julia Campbell, host of Nonprofit Nation, and the result is one of the most honest, wide-ranging conversations we've had on this show. They cover the real stuff: why so many nonprofits are treading water, why your donors don't need a polished brand campaign (they need the truth), and why the difference between marketing and fundraising might be the most important thing your organization isn't thinking about.

Julia also makes a compelling case that you, your phone, and zero budget is all you need to build a following – just ask her client, a force of nature who single handedly helped end the dog meat trade in China.

Oh, and they get into A.I. Because of course they do. Julia's take? Stop being intimidated and start treating it like an intern. Matt's take? ChatGPT designed his tattoo, so he's basically already married to it.