Nonprofit on the Rocks

What happens when a neuroscience researcher turned ethical fashion entrepreneur accidentally founds a nonprofit and lives to tell the tale? She builds a course to stop you from making the same mistakes.

This week, Matt sits down with Sharmon Lebby — founder of the Nonprofit Launch Academy — to dig into what it really takes to build a nonprofit from scratch — the right way. Sharmon shares lessons from her own founder journey, including the mistakes that led her to create a comprehensive eight-module course for aspiring nonprofit founders.

From why your friends make terrible board members to why you should plan your exit before you even open the bank account, this episode is a masterclass in doing good without losing your mind.

0:00 — Cold Open & Guest Intro Sharmon Leby's scenic route: neuroscience researcher → ethical fashion entrepreneur → accidental nonprofit founder. Matt teases the full lineup: boards, paying yourself, succession, and when to say no to a friend with a nonprofit dream.

4:00 — Neuroscience, Fashion & the Accidental Nonprofit How a biology degree, a spontaneous clothing line, and five women in sustainability led to Sharmon's first nonprofit — by sheer hubris. She learned she had no clue what she was doing. Matt reassures: none of us do.

8:00 — Boards Make or Break You Sharmon's biggest early mistake: recruiting friends instead of building a strategic board. Matt's rule: a great board = great org, a terrible board = game over. How to start with a skills assessment.

11:45 — The 5 Board Archetypes & When to Pay Yourself The five people every board needs — from a compliance mind to a community voice. Then: when can a founder realistically start taking a salary? Sharmon says build a "dream budget" from day one.

13:48 — Succession Planning Starts on Day One Counterintuitive but critical: planning your exit from the beginning means better systems, better infrastructure — and the ability to actually take a day off without the org collapsing.

18:40 — The 5:1 Pay Ratio Hot Take Matt's first ED job paid $55K. Now he places people making $400K. Sharmon advocates the 5:1 rule: no CEO earns more than 5× the lowest-paid employee. They both agree: if your staff needs a second job to survive, you don't get to make $400K.

22:55 — Failure, Luck vs. Skill & Nonprofit Launch Academy Getting comfortable with messing up. Matt asks his favorite interview question — lucky or skillful? — and they disagree. Plus: how the Academy was born from watching founders repeat the same mistakes (named with help from a thesaurus).

24:37 — Great Ideas, Terrible Ideas & What Makes a Strong Founder A brilliant nonprofit bridging US and African entrepreneurs under AGOA. A terrible one funneling grant money back into a for-profit. And the qualities that separate a strong founder from an ego-driven one.

28:35 — When to Start, When to Join & When to Walk Away Another org already does what you want? Find the gap — or go volunteer there first. And when Sharmon says don't: if you can't track money, won't do compliance, or want to shuffle funds, the IRS will come for you. Start a for-profit instead.

32:11 — Success Story & "Build Slow" The student who tried to skip to the last module and file her 501(c)(3) immediately — then realized she needed the basics. Sharmon's advice to her younger self: build slow. Plus two warning signs your nonprofit isn't sustainable.

38:14 — Where to Find Sharmon & Why Hire Her Find her at blesseddesignsco.com, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Threads ("where I make all my enemies"). She reads between the lines and gives words to what founders feel but can't articulate. Eight modules, build-as-you-go.

42:45 — Outro with Ashley: Lake Arrowhead Edition Ashley joins from a lake because Matt bailed for a six-month-waitlist restaurant that turned out to be terrible. Plus the great Halloween decorating debate and a recap of Sharmon's episode.

Two nonprofit podcast hosts. Zero rehearsal. One refreshingly honest conversation.

Matt Kamin (Nonprofit on the Rocks) and Meghan Speer (Nonprofit Hub) team up for the first-ever crossover between their shows — and it's basically two friends geeking out over everything wrong (and right) with the nonprofit world.

They get into the real talk fast: how to tell client stories without exploiting people, whether AI is about to change how donors decide who to support, and why nobody can agree on the "right" board size. Along the way: a hot take on why "executive director" undersells one of the hardest jobs in America, a hard line on never passing a budget in the red (your endowment is not a safety net!), a case for more nonprofit mergers, and a rant about leaders who care more about their "legacy" than the mission itself.

Candid. A little chaotic. Occasionally emotional. Packed with hard-won wisdom from two people who've spent their careers in the trenches — exactly what happens when you put two podcast hosts in a room and tell them to just talk.

00:00 – Welcome & Introduction -- Matt and Meghan kick off the first-ever joint episode, previewing a wide-ranging conversation on ethical storytelling, AI, board governance, budgets, and legacy.

4:02 – Meet the Hosts -- Megan introduces Nonprofit Hub, providing professional development for nonprofit leaders, and Matt shares his work at Envision Consulting placing C-suite and board members.

7:02 – Ideal Board Size -- The two debate working boards vs. governing boards and why the right number depends on the board's role, not the org's size.

9:00 – Ethical Storytelling in Nonprofits -- Consent, dignity, and boundaries in nonprofit storytelling, including sharing stories of failure and creating photo/story consent forms.

16:03 – AI. And the Future of Donor Strategy -- How will ChatGPT and Claude change donor research? Exploring what next-gen donors expect and the ethics of disclosing AI-generated content.

18:03 – Leadership Transitions and Generational Shifts -- The great wealth transfer also means a leadership transfer. Founders staying through COVID, Gen X getting skipped, and succession planning.

23:13 – CEO vs Executive Director -- — A spirited debate on whether the title "Executive Director" devalues nonprofit leaders and why running a nonprofit is a CEO job in all but name.

26:52 – Budgets in the Red & Endowment Myths -- Don't pass a deficit budget, and an endowment is not a safety net for bad financial practices—it's for the growth of the organization.

28:33 – Nonprofit Mergers -- Why nonprofits resist merging while competing for the same donors. The case for consolidation, shared services, and leaving ego at the door.

31:38 – Legacy, Ego & Why We Do This Work -- Matt's biggest pet peeve: the word "legacy." Both hosts share personal stories of what brought them to the nonprofit sector.

34:55 – The Podcasting Experience -- Meghan on producing a weekly podcast and what she's learned from hundreds of guests; Matt on how Nonprofit on the Rocks was born from COVID-era networking.

39:22 – Post Show: Gen X Playground Banter -- Matt and producer Ashley relive the death-trap playgrounds of their youth and debate whether Gen X is the "Prince Charles" of generations.

State of the Nonprofit Worker Report (SNWR) Spoiler: it's not a K-pop band. It's the data initiative that's about to make your next board meeting way more interesting.

In this episode, host Matt sits down with Allison (Envision Consulting) and Efrain (Center for Nonprofit Management) to talk about the State of the Nonprofit Worker Report — the survey aiming to answer the question every nonprofit leader is whispering at happy hour: are we in a silent recession, or does it just feel that way because we're all running on coffee and will power?

What you'll learn: • Why this report goes way beyond "just another compensation survey" (yes, they know you're tired of those too) • The elephant-in-the-room questions: federal funding cuts, the AI panic, and whether remote work is actually dead or just resting • Why quality-of-life metrics — like childcare, living wages, and whether you can actually pay your bills — matter more than a salary number on a spreadsheet • How CNM and Envision teamed up to be the "convener" and "data hub" so nonprofits stop making six-figure decisions based on vibes and anecdotes • A truly inspired tangent about an $8,000 laundry-folding robot and why that, too, counts as AI we can get behind

Whether you're filling out the survey as an individual or as an organization, the hosts want you to know: yes, it's a big ask, and yes, they know surveys are the bane of your existence. But without your data, there's no story — and no story means no change.

Learn more and take the survey at cnmsocal.org.

[0:00] — Welcome & Episode Introduction Matt Kamin introduces the episode's focus: the State of the Nonprofit Worker Report (SNWR), a major data initiative documenting the challenges facing the nonprofit sector. Guests Allison Fuller (Envision Consulting) and Efrain Escobedo (Center for Nonprofit Management) join the show.

[3:00] — What Is SNWR? Efrain explains that SNWR is an initiative designed to produce hard data on what he calls "the most silent travesty" — a nonprofit sector contraction potentially worse than the 2008 recession. The report builds on CNM's 2022 Equitable Nonprofit Workplace report, but goes beyond well-being metrics into economic security, layoffs, and workplace reality.

[6:00] — Why the Envision–CNM Partnership Matters Allison discusses why Envision and CNM teamed up: CNM brings convening and capacity-building power, while Envision serves as the data hub. Together, they aim to produce insights actionable for philanthropic partners, funders, and policymakers — something neither could achieve alone.

[9:00] — The Elephant-in-the-Room Survey Questions Allison runs through the survey's key topics: federal funding cuts and their impact, AI adoption and worker displacement, whether remote work is dead, cost-of-living measures like childcare affordability and commute distance, and the big question — is the nonprofit sector in a "silent recession"?

[12:00] — Trends Efrain Is Hearing from Nonprofit Leaders Efrain shares two troubling trends: nearly every nonprofit leader he's spoken with has had to reduce staff or consolidate programs, and managing the cultural fallout of those changes is creating deep workplace anxiety. He also highlights bright spots — growing curiosity about AI and real resilience through creative partnerships.

[15:00] — How Leaders Should Use the Results Efrain hopes leaders will use the report to contextualize their own struggles, understand they're not alone in a sector-wide shift, and make data-driven decisions around budgeting, salary competitiveness, and workforce planning for fiscal year 2028. Allison shares what excites her most: quantifying quality-of-life measures like childcare and living wage to see how the sector is treating its own people.

[18:00] — Why Nonprofits Should Take the Survey Efrain makes the case for participation: the data goes into a commons, free and accessible to all. He frames it as collective action — "if not now, when?" — arguing that the sector can't expect change if it won't come together to tell its own story. Every response helps demonstrate to policymakers and philanthropy that nonprofits are too critical to fail.

[21:00] — Philanthropy's Role & the Irvine Foundation Efrain expresses gratitude to The James Irvine Foundation, which provided the majority of funding for the study. He challenges philanthropy to move beyond anecdote-driven decisions and use real data when investing in the nonprofit sector — one of the largest industries that still operates largely without it.

[24:00] — Survey Logistics & the Free Digital Dashboard Allison details how to participate: the survey can be taken as an individual (15–25 minutes) or as an organization (45 minutes+). She announces a major upgrade — a free, interactive digital dashboard replacing the old static report, with a full-time developer and data team building filtering and comparison tools. There's nothing else like it on the market.

[27:00] — What Is the Center for Nonprofit Management? Efrain gives his elevator pitch: CNM has served the sector for 50 years and has evolved from a consulting org into an advocate, resource, and cheerleader — advancing research, supporting organizations through training and technical assistance, and advocating for sector resources. Find them at cnmsocal.org.

[30:00] — Post-Show Banter: Surveys, AI Robots & Matt's Stalker Candidate Matt and producer Ashley debrief on survey fatigue, the candidate who binge-listened seven episodes before his interview, and whether an AI robot that does your laundry is a dream or a nightmare. The episode wraps with a reminder to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Two podcast hosts walk into a recording session. One's drinking Eagle Rare bourbon at 3pm in LA. The other is sipping a Pinot Grigio she smuggled back from Italy. Neither has ever co-hosted before. What could go wrong?

Turns out — nothing. This week, Matt hands over (half of) the mic to Julia Campbell, host of Nonprofit Nation, and the result is one of the most honest, wide-ranging conversations we've had on this show. They cover the real stuff: why so many nonprofits are treading water, why your donors don't need a polished brand campaign (they need the truth), and why the difference between marketing and fundraising might be the most important thing your organization isn't thinking about.

Julia also makes a compelling case that you, your phone, and zero budget is all you need to build a following – just ask her client, a force of nature who single handedly helped end the dog meat trade in China.

Oh, and they get into A.I. Because of course they do. Julia's take? Stop being intimidated and start treating it like an intern. Matt's take? ChatGPT designed his tattoo, so he's basically already married to it.