Now as Then

Ever heard of Isis? (Hint: you probably did.) Ranging from the Christian Roman Empire to the painting on Nefretiti’s tomb, Isis has been here, there, and everywhere. Interestingly, there seems to be a cyclical relationship between Isis and women. Isis represented the general autonomy of Egyptian women. Likewise, Egyptian royals, such as Cleopatra and Nefertiti, used Isis to legitimize their rule in Ancient Egypt. Over time, the appeal of Isis became so great that she became a protective figure from Dynastic Egypt to the Roman Christian World.

Hosted by:

Megan Vu, (Undergraduate, Brown)

Nyimah Thompson, (Undergraduate, Brown)

Selena Yuan, (Undergraduate, Brown)

Richard Fleming, (Undergraduate, Brown)

INTRODUCTION (PART 1) (00:00:10-00:01:30) 

Megan: Picture this, you’re at the Nile River. Maybe you’re fishing, where the sun hits the water at just the right angle to get that rainbowy-kaleidoscopic effect. Or maybe, you’re weaving baskets with the soft, but tough grass from the Nile Shore. While looking for the best grass to use, you stumble across a woman hiding a shiny, golden coffin among the reeds. But here’s the kicker; the coffin is carrying Osiris (the to-be God of the Underworld), but the woman is his wife: the goddess Isis. 

Hello, fellow viewers! It’s Megan here, back with an episode for Now As Then. I’m a student from Brown University, right here in the beautiful city of Providence, Rhode Island. While I’m currently studying medicine, I also like studying classics and ancient civilizations in my free time (in this case, Ancient Egypt). I’m also joined by my other colleagues Selena, Richard, and Nyimah. Care to give yourselves a short intro? 

Selena: Hi, I’m Selena, and I’m planning on studying applied-math and economics. I know, quite different from archaeology. 

Nyimah: What’s up? I’m Nyimah, a freshman who’s planning to study psychology. 

Richard: Hello, I’m Richard. I’m studying computer science, and I’m planning on working with machine learning. 

INTRODUCTION (PART 2) (00:01:31-00:06:12) 

Megan: Haha, this is one of the reasons why I love this class. It truly has the ability to draw people in from far and wide, and from various backgrounds! Now that we all got to know each other, let’s talk about the star of our show: Isis. 

Nyimah: In general, Isis seems to be a protector, capable of unifying all of Egypt, and even has rejuvenating magic2. Now, let me bring up an interesting question: what’s her relationship with Egyptian women? Do we think that she empowers them? Or that she really doesn’t? 

Megan: That is an interesting question. Before that though, who exactly was Isis? 

Selena: Let’s start with her name. According to an Egyptologist named Joyce Tydesley, Isis’ original Egyptian name was Aset. It changed to Isis sometime during the Greco-Roman rule (332 BC -395 AD). Her name was depicted by a sign of a throne. She could also appear with a small throne on her crown. Both pictures usually symbolize royalty. 

Richard: Yeah, and also her name quite literally translates to “Queen of the Throne.” 

Nyimah: God, what a powerhouse. Remember the time that we went to the John Hay Library? We saw their special collections and found a huge compilation of Egyptian hieroglyphs. 

Megan: Yeah! I remember that. I also remember seeing an image where Isis had both the crown of Upper and Lower Egypt, which is quite fascinating. It’s usually uncommon for a woman to hold this much power. But what’s her story like? 

Selena: So, the legend of Isis had multiple variations, but in its most simplest form, it goes something like this. Isis was the sister and wife of the god Osiris. In fact, they were twins and were said to have fallen in love in the womb5. Their stories were actually one of the great romantic tragedies back then. 

Nyimah: The most famous rendition that I know of is by Plutarch, a Greek philosopher. In his version, Osiris was murdered and dismembered by his jealous brother Seth. After, Isis 

Megan: Oh! I remember hearing about this. In my version, though, Isis devoted herself to finding the different parts of Osiris. The gods were so impressed by her dedication that they helped put Osiris back together. 

Richard: Oh yeah, that story was super fitting of what her initial powers were. She was the protector of women and creator of magic. And even after thousands of years, she became the Queen of the Universe. 

Nyimah: That really is quite interesting. She also influenced different parts of Egyptian society, even mummification rites! 

Megan: You’re right! Remember when we took that class trip to the Rhode Island’s School of Design, we went to their museum, and I remember seeing a cool artifact. I’m the furthest thing from an Egyptologist, but it was called a pectoral. And, for our listeners by the way, a pectoral was something strung around the neck of the deceased. It’s sort of an amulet that was believed to have powers of protection. It was carved to look like Isis, with her arms spread out. But what was interesting was that she had wings or feathers of some sort, aligning underneath her arms9. 

Selena: I remember seeing that. Her wings were so intricate, and I found out her wings represented freedom. It would originally be sewn into the dead’s linen as a means of protection for their journey into the afterlife. Egyptians were huge on amulets, so whatever shape the amulets took on was representative of their powers. In other words, this pectoral was a symbol of Isis to protect their dead in the afterlife. 

Richard: Yeah, it really feels like Isis is giving you a big hug. Her outstretched wings truly emphasize her status as a protector. 

Nyimah: Speaking of the afterlife, let’s look at an example. There’s a tomb belonging to a New Kingdom pharaoh called Seti I. In his tomb there are depictions of Isis all around or right above the body11. Remember the story of her and Osiris from earlier? Isis was believed to restore the souls of deceased humans to wholeness as she did with her husband. 

Megan: Isis was huge on magic. Overall, it seems as though she’s associated with the ideas of freedom and divine protection. This idea was so attractive. Over time, Isis became this sort of protective figure during Dynastic Egypt all the way to the Roman Christian world. 

Selena: So, to sum it up, Isis was a symbol of female empowerment. She reflected the freedom and autonomy of Egyptian women, particularly in royalty like Nefertari, Cleopatra, and Hatshepsut. 

EGYPTIAN WOMEN (00:06:14-00:16:21) 

Megan: Now we all agree that Isis was an incredibly powerful goddess, right? From our earlier discussion, she’s associated with the ideas of freedom, divine protection, and motherhood. In fact, there’s a hymn for Osiris from the New Kingdom that accurately summarizes Isis’s character. “His sister was his guard, the mighty Isis who protected her brother, seeking him without tiring, not arresting until she found him.” Overall, we get this sense that Isis was dedicated, a protector and that’s what makes her so fascinating. 

Nyimah: she was a powerful symbol of female independence. For now, it’s important to look closer at women’s rights. For example, they can learn to read and write freely, participate in trade and business, buy and own property, speak out in court, and even divorce their own husbands. 

Selena: Right, It’s so fascinating how people tend to forget this. Like Greek women, especially those of the lower class were subjected to the home where they took care of children and performed domestic duties. They did this because they thought women were a sin in a sense. 

Megan: And yes, I would agree. For another class, I did extra reading and stumbled across this article called Women in Ancient Greece. Essentially women were forced to stay inside the home because it was believed that they would be seduced by other men in societies like Ancient Greece. There was this idea that women were immoral and lacked self-restraint. 

Selena: Exactly. Especially with the idea that the woman’s sole purpose was to bear children. So, forcing women to stay in the home was a means to reduce the chance of her getting seduced. 

Richard: Yeah. But I think it would be difficult to give an exact answer. There’s no surefire way of knowing, except for looking at Egyptian art from the Dynastic period. Usually, upper-class women and daughters were included in these pieces of art by virtue of their relationship to a particular man. In this way, these women conform to the stereotypical view of the idea that the Egyptian female was a passive support for her husband or father from the Dynastic Egyptian tombs. Seems like they want to reinforce the idea that the man rather than his wife was the head of the household. 

Megan: And I would agree. But there were exceptions to that rule. Let’s first go to our first woman from the old Kingdom. Her name was Lady Nebet and she worked as a supervisor and writer within Ancient Egypt. She was titled daughter of Gev, daughter of Thoth and daughter of Horus. Since Horus was the son of Isis. It’s like she’s claiming that she’s directly related to the goddess. 

Nyimah: Isis was considered a powerful sorceress and healer. It was also said that she had taught women such skills. Egyptian women also worked as a supervisor or writer to help get income from outside the house. It gives a sense that Lady Nebet has a bunch of power and autonomy within society similar to Isis. 

Richard: Yeah definitely, Isis represented the autonomy of women through funeral rites during the old kingdom. Women could work as professional mourners. Usually, they were specialists who were hired to enhance the status of the deceased by openly grieving at one’s funeral. Tyldesley says, “Two women were chosen to impersonate the two Isis and Nephthys, the sisters of Osiris who assumed the shape of birds while searching the world for their dead brother.”

 Nyimah: Funerary matters are usually where women can share their voices the most, especially in misogynistic cultures like those of the Greeks and Romans. Funerals and public mourning are one of the main ways women can share their voices. 

Selena: Yeah, and there are also other women who can share their voices even louder. Egyptian queens. Egyptian queens and regents aren’t defined by their husbands. For instance, there’s a tomb from the fourth dynasty for a queen named Meresankh and it displayed her picking lotus blossoms while riding on a boat with her mother. 

Richard: Yeah, and what’s significant about that, instead of her husband or brother, it was her mother that was with her in the tomb. This would imply that female queens could act independently, separately from their husbands. 

Nyimah: That is very interesting, but what does she have to do with Isis? Does she resemble her at all? 

Megan: Well, remember that story where Isis resurrected Osiris? Isis seemed to have the more dominant, ” heroic” role of that story. You don’t see Osiris doing anything, but it was Isis, the woman of the story, that was doing the heroic deeds. In other words, she made her own identity on her own terms. She acted independently, based on her own will, and separate from that of Osiris. I believe that’s what makes Isis so attractive. She didn’t need her husband to flourish. That would be similar to Meresankh. You don’t see her husband or brother on her tomb. She focused on her relationship with her mother. 

Richard: Exactly. Also, Isis had a son with Osiris named Horus. After Osiris passed, Isis raised Horus until he was powerful enough to challenge his uncle, Seth, and become king of Egypt. Things like this happened with other Egyptian queens, particularly Hatshepsut and Nefertiti. 

Selena: I briefly remember Hatshepsut from a class discussion. I think she’s from the 18th dynasty, and she was the only queen whose rule wasn’t followed by a period of chaos. 

Megan: And you would be right. Hatshepsut was a force to be reckoned with. When Hatshepsut’s stepson, Thutmose III, succeeded his father’s throne at a young age, Hatshepsut served as a regent and supported him, offering him guidance and whatnot. Like that story from Isis earlier. 

Richard: Yeah, the one where she raised and protected Horus when he was younger? 

Megan: Exactly. Did you know that she eventually called herself Pharaoh? The way I see it, it could be a strategic move on Hatshepsut’s part to declare herself pharaoh. It’s like she’s fulfilling a divine duty, and thus she can portray herself as a protector and guide. And by portraying herself as a protector like Isis, she could legitimize her rule, and display herself as a ruler chosen by the gods. 

Nyimah: Okay, I see. Hatshepsut guided her stepson and ruled alongside him, similar to how Isis helped Horus. 

Selena: Okay, alright, so there’s this idea that Isis could be empowering women because women like Hatshepsut have real power and rights, which were rare in ancient societies. It’s because powerful women like Hatshepsut exist that Isis can become such a powerful symbol for women. 

Megan: Oh yeah, but now I’m gonna break your brains just a little bit. There’s another queen, and I think you would all know her. Cleopatra. Tildesley wrote about her too. In her work, Cleopatra, the Last Queen. 

Richard: Yeah, and I think we all know her and her fling with Mark Anthony. 

Megan: And you would be right, but she was also an incredibly special queen. Similar to Hatshepsut, Cleopatra legitimized her rule by making it as though she and Isis were the same person, thus forging her own powerful and divine identity. And, it is similar in a way. 

Nyimah: For instance, she tried to portray herself as a daughter of Ra, so she would have the divine right to rule. And now, Cleopatra associates herself with Isis, the Great Mother. 

Selena: Whoa, that’s incredibly interesting. Does she share a similar protection story like that of Hatshepsut? 

Megan: Mmm, it’s a little bit different from that. There were several artifacts where Isis had Horus sitting on her lap. Other times she would be suckling Horus. This image could be interpreted as Egyptian queens suckling their sons. Remember, there’s a strong connection between Isis and kingship, and Cleopatra used this well-known imagery to her advantage. 

Nyimah: Really? How? 

Megan: Well, during her rule, she printed this suckling image on Cybrian coins. When she had her son, Caesarion, Cleopatra portrayed herself in the same way. Her son was on her left, and she’s suckling him. Isis left was considered the throne of kings. So, by using this imagery, it’s like Cleopatra is telling us her lap is also the throne of kings and that she’s a goddess herself. In addition, since this image was incredibly common among the Egyptians, it just further solidified the idea that Cleopatra and Isis were the same. 

Richard: Yeah, exactly. Cleopatra created her own divine identity and proved herself able to rule all over Egypt with the power of Pharaoh. Also, this makes me think more about Egyptian queens and how they further exemplify Isis. 

Nyimah: Really? How? 

Megan: It has something to do with the relationship between pharaohs and their gods. Tildesley had this idea about a contract between the two parties. The gods keep everything in order, a.k.a. maat, in Egyptian terms, and they’re treated like gods. This was because it was believed that they could ward off chaos, and thus the Egyptians established their own sense of justice. 

Selena: And in return, they give sacrifices and temples and all of that for the gods. But because the pharaohs had this immense power, they established order, justice, and united all of Egypt. They’re usually associated with or worshipped as though they’re a god. Isis does help empower these women, such as Cleopatra because it’s like these female pharaohs could create order and 

Richard: Interesting. I think I have another queen who relates to this idea. Queen Nefertari. Particularly, I want to look at a painting of her tomb in the Met Museum in New York City. 

Selena: Sounds amazing. What did the painting look like? 

Richard: On Nefertari’s tomb, there was an inscription showing Isis holding her hand, leading her into the afterlife. 

Nyimah: That does make an interesting picture. What about her husband, Ramses III? 

Megan: And that’s the fun part! Her husband was nowhere to be found! The painting also demonstrates Isis’s importance in leading royals to the afterlife. The Editions believe that the afterlife isn’t the end, but it’s the beginning to the next part of one’s life. 

Selena: That’s really cool. I think that it shows that Nefertari’s identity wasn’t shaped by her husband. In fact, it also shows how Isis had the power and importance equivalent to that of a husband. It also further demonstrates Isis ability to nurture royals as she’s helping Nefertari into the next part of her life. 

Richard: This is all really fascinating, but it also makes me wonder, do these ideas about Isis continue into other eras, like the Roman Christian world? 

Nyimah: Well, to answer that question, we have to explore ancient Rome. Let’s go! ASIDE TO THE AUDIENCE (00:16:22-00:17:04) 

Megan: Wait, wait, hold up. This may sound like a lot of information, but let’s have a recap. First, Egyptian women had more rights than other women in other civilizations. They can own property, divorce their husbands, work outside the home, etc. Because of that, Isis rose as a symbol for women’s empowerment. Egyptian royals like Hatshepsut and Cleopatra used the appeal of Isis’s divinity to legitimize their role. Hatshepsut represents Isis’s protection and guidance. Cleopatra became associated with Isis and developed her own divine identity, something unheard of in other civilizations. Now that we got that straight, let’s head to the beautiful city of Rome. 

ISIS X MOTHERHOOD (00:17:05-00:21:21) 

Nyimah: We have arrived in Rome, the empire of vast knowledge, eternal beauty, and acceptance. As you walk around the streets of this ancient empire, notice some of the things around you. Feel the warmth of the morning sun on your face, and a cool breeze rushing past you. Look at the multitudes of people starting their day. 

Selena: The men going to whatever job awaited them at their destination, the women are flowing through the market and talking with everyone around them, and the children are making their way to school to be educated. Breathe in the dust from the number of carts being dragged along the dirt streets. Now, take a moment and bask in your imagination. When you close your eyes can you see yourself there? 

Richard: Absolutely, I can. 

Megan: Oh yeahhhh, I can see it. Rome is absolutely gorgeous. 

Nyimah: Great! Now, as we continue I want you to keep this picture in the back of your minds. It’s going to be very helpful in the discussion during this next part. Ancient Rome was an Empire full of curiosity, especially toward other cultures and the specific characteristics of those cultures, like religion. In this section of the podcast, we will discuss the Roman view of two prominent female figures in two very different religions. The Goddess Isis from the Egyptian world and The Virgin Mary from the Christian world. 

Megan: Sounds amazing! What would the Virgin Mary have anything to do with Isis? 

Nyimah: Great question! These two women shouldn’t even be brought up in the same conversation when they have nothing to do with each other, right? But, this statement is not totally true. Even though Isis and the Virgin Mary represent different characteristics of their respective religions, they do share one similarity: the importance of motherhood.

Megan: Oooohhhhh! What an interesting connection! The Ancient Egyptians did think of Isis as the Great Mother, or the Mother Goddess. 

Nyimah: To help get a better understanding, I want to include a brief explanation from the undergrad Katherine Burdick’s thesis on The Power of Mothers: A Comparison of the Egyptian Goddess Isis and Virgin Mary. She talks about how both Isis and the Virgin Mary were famous religious figures in the Roman Empire during similar time periods. And through this, as time progressed people (at least in the European world) people were unable to decide which one came before the other, and eventually, both women started to represent similar things. 

Selena: What kind of things? 

Nyimah: Well, do you all know the story of the Virgin Mary? 

Richard: Yeah, of course! She was visited by the archangel Gabriel one night and was told that God had chosen her to bring his son into the world. 

Nyimah: Right, and the message that this story conveys is that Mary represents the ideal mother. She was personally chosen by God to raise the son that would liberate the world. I don’t know about you, but to me, that sounds like an overwhelming amount of pressure that I would not be able to handle. But, for Mary it was her calling. 

Megan: And in a similar way, in all of the stories told about Isis and Osiris, it seems that other than wanting her husband to be whole, Isis wanted to find his body so that she could conceive a child (a.k.a. Horus the enemy of his uncle Seth). And, this child would accompany his father in the afterlife and his mother in the mortal world. 

Selena: Right, again, we see this theme of a woman’s main purpose being the opportunity to bring a child to life, and these children, in some way, end up affecting the world they’re entering. 

Nyimah: I want to mention two pictures from the article Mothers: The Influence of Isis on the Virgin Mary. The two pictures show statues of both Isis and Mary. The first statue was made in the 7th century CE and shows the Virgin Mary breastfeeding baby Jesus. The second statue shows the same image, but instead it depicts the Goddess Isis and was made in 7th-6th century BCE. Both statues were made in different time periods and depict both women showing her care for a child. It’s clear what the message being conveyed is. 

Richard: Yeah, messages like these have been passed down for centuries in their respective cultures. We can really see that the concept of giving birth (especially to sons) was something celebrated. People strongly believed that their kids change the world, and it was a woman’s honor and duty to give life to them. 

CONCLUSION (00:21:22-00:26:28) 

Megan: Although the ancient world doesn’t currently exist, Isis is farrrr from forgotten. We can still see glimpses of her in the modern day! For instance, there was the cult of Isis. Yeah, did you all think we would forget about that? 

Nyimah: Isis was seen as “The Mother Goddess,” and her influence spread from outside of Egypt, from the Roman Empire all the way to Afghanistan! 36 

Selena: These days, people use Isis for more commercial uses. In 2014, singer Katy Perry created a music video for her single “Dark Horse” (which, by the way, I really liked). Around the end of the video, Katy Perry ascends to the top of Pyramid with wings alongside her arms37. Remember that pectoral from RISD we talked about? Where Isis had wings outstretched? I believe Perry was trying to emulate Isis’ power, but purely for commercial purposes. 

Richard: Yeaahh, the same can be said for Hollywood movies. In the movie “Gods of Egypt.” They talk about the battle between the god Horace and Seth to determine who would be pharaoh over Egypt. Katheryn Blake played Isis in that movie.

Nyimah: Oh yeahh, I remember that! It does remind us that people use Ancient Egypt for commercial means. All the actors were white, so there was truly a lack of Egyptian dialogue. 

Megan: Yeaahh, sadly. I remember that movie getting a lot of hate for being incredibly whitewashed. I remember the reviews were also pretty brutal. Mostly, it was because, and you’re right, because of the lack of the Egyptian voice and actors. 

SELENA: Yeah, I also think it’s important to note that while it sucks that modern depictions of Isis are farrrrr from what she originally represented, it can be argued that without this exaggerated imagery, people might forget about Isis and Ancient Egypt altogether. 

RICHARD: I feel like we can talk about Isis forever, but these topics sound like they’re for another episode. Thank you for joining us today on an episode of “Now as Then.” If you’re interested in learning more about Ancient Egypt, just visit our website and watch other episodes from us. The team and I here are truly excited to have you here with us today, and we hope that we gave you an interesting take on the intersection of Isis and Egyptian women. 

MEGAN: I would also like to thank the people who made this episode possible. Special thanks to our professor Robyn Price, who made this opportunity possible and introduced us to Audacity! Thanks to Izzy of the Rockefeller Library to help us with the studio room (and giving us tips for editing audio). Also, to Karen Bouchard of the John Hay Library and helped us look at the Library’s Special Collections. Honestly, you all are super amazing, super kind people. Thank you so much for listening to us! 

Everyone: Goodbye!!! 

OUTRO MUSIC (00:26:28-00:26:38)

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digitalcommons.providence.edu/history_undergrad_theses/54. Accessed 5 Nov. 2023. “The Goddess Isis and Her Son Horus: Ptolemaic Period.” The Metropolitan Museum of Art, www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/548310. Accessed 06 Nov. 2023. 

Higgins, Sabrina. “Divine Mothers: The Influence of Isis on the Virgin Mary in Egyptian Lactans-Iconography*.” Journal of the Canadian Society for Coptic Studies, vol. 3-4, 2012, pp. 71–90. Accessed 4 Nov. 2023. 

Hoffman, Jordan. “Gods of Egypt Review – Ridiculous, Offensive and Tremendously Fun.” The Guardian, 26 Feb. 2016, 

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Perry, Katy. Dark Horse (Official) Ft. Juicy J. Youtube, Capitol Records, 20 Feb. 2014, www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KSOMA3QBU0. 

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The ancient Egyptian pyramids have been admired for thousands of years and along with that admiration has come varying theories for how the pyramids were constructed. Over the years, many alternative western theories have arose, often discrediting and underselling the achievements of the ancient Egyptians and these alternative theories have contributed to the perception of Egypt as a mystical place that is part of the “orient”. Through primary and secondary sources from the ancient Greeks to contemporary research, we explore how the perception of the construction of the pyramids have changed over time, break down why Egypt specifically has experienced this, and how archaeologically attested evidence and Egyptologist research have proposed the most likely explanation for the creation of the pyramids. The pyramids continue to be a testament to the ingenuity and skill of the Ancient Egyptians and discovering how the pyramids were created gives us a more genuine appreciation of ancient Egypt.

Hosted by:

John Huang (Undergraduate, Brown)

Alex Ziegler (Undergraduate, Brown)

Sidhant Sharma (Undergraduate, Brown)

Wheeler Padgett (Undergraduate, Brown)

Introduction:

John: Hello everyone, welcome to our podcast: Deconstructing the Construction of the Pyramids, Episode 5 of Season 3 of the Now as Then podcast. My name is John Huang and I’m joined by my mates, Alex Ziegler (“hi with your name”), Sidhant Sharma (“hello with your name”), and Wheeler Padgett (“hey with your name”). Before we get started, we want to give a big thank you to Alexandra Poterack, Karen Bouchard, Laura Stokes, Izzy Ulasz, and of course Dr. Robyn Price for all of their help in the crafting of this episode. 

Sid: Today we will be talking about the Ancient Egyptian pyramids. Throughout history, visitors to Egypt have been amazed by the Pyramids of Giza. In this podcast, we will be exploring how travelers across generations have hypothesized about the creation of the pyramids, from ancient Greeks and Romans to English and French colonists to finally, current day archaeologists, Egyptologists, and scientists.

Wheeler: There are over 100 pyramids in Egypt, the most famous of which are the three pyramids at Giza. Most pyramids were constructed during the Old Kingdom period. They were built to serve as monuments to the gods and tombs of the pharaohs, that would house their souls after their deaths. The first pyramids were the Step Pyramids, which were layered, rough monuments originally designed by the architect Imhotep. Over time, the design was refined by the Ancient Egyptians, making the pyramids larger and more intricate until they reached the design that captures the attention of so many people today. These gigantic tombs have enthralled the world for thousands of years.

———————————————————————————-

Alex: The Ancient Greeks were one of the earliest groups to record their travels to Egypt. Beginning with Hecataeus of Miletus, many Greek scholars were fascinated by Egypt and wrote of its culture and history. Herodotus’s Histories are the oldest remaining example of these texts. Published in 430 B.C.E., the Histories are mainly an account of the Greek and Persian wars; however, they also contain “An Account of Egypt” describing Herodotus’s time there. Shortly after the time of Herodotus, Alexander the Great, who was Macedonian but shared much of Greek culture, conquered Egypt and established the city of Alexandria and his own Pharaonic rule of Egypt. For the next 300 years foreign rulers continued to govern Egypt through what was known as the Ptolemaic Period. During this time Greek writers such as Diodorus of Sicily and Strabo, wrote their own descriptions of Egypt and the Pyramids. 

Sid: Civil war in the latter end of the Ptolemaic period perfectly set the stage for the later Roman visitors. They ruled Egypt from 30 BCE all the way until about 641 AD and had a wide range of attitudes towards the pyramids and their construction. The major primary accounts come from historians and philosophers, the most famous of which was Pliny the Elder. However, the views of the Roman emperors and common people, while not as well documented, were also significant. 

John (Narrator): Wouldn’t it be nice to hear this from the sources themselves? Fortunately, today we’re diving into some conversations with some of the first few visitors to Egypt. However, these sources are all depictions of the ancient Egyptian world by scholars from the Western world. Therefore, it is important to consider how Egyptology and archaeologically backed perspectives differ from this. With that in mind, here’s Herodotus with his views first.

Alex: (Herodotus) As the first to record my visit to the Pyramids I have determined that they were built by a collection of evil kings during the 8th Century. The king Cheops commissioned the first pyramid at Giza. The natives there told me that the pyramid was built like a flight of stairs “[using] appliances made out of short pieces of wood to lift the blocks of stone.” . 100,000 men worked over 20 years to complete the Pyramid of Cheops. The construction of the Pyramids was extremely expensive; it is recorded that they spent 1,600 talents of silver on radishes, onions and garlic alone .

John: (Narrator) “Interesting, but what did Roman historians like Pliny have to say about this?”

Sid (Pliny): I personally don’t see why we are even considering these Ancient Greek tales. After all, the Roman empire was but an improved version of Greek civilization. Historians like me synthesized the knowledge of multiple Greek historians, with theories including: 1600 talents was spent on food for laborers, salt and alkalis were used to create ramps for the building blocks of the pyramids and then flooded and destroyed by the Nile annually, or that bridges were made from mud bricks that were given to individuals to build their houses once the pyramids were made. I sorted through and analyzed works from popular authors like Herodotus, Dionysius, and lesser known ones like Duris of Samos and Alexander Polyhistor, critically analyzing each one and coming to the conclusion that “it took 360,000 men twenty years to build the Great Pyramid and the time for all three pyramids of Giza combined was 88 years and four months”. I was the original Encyclopedia Britannica!

Sid (Voiceover): Hang on, a mix of sources with nobody verifying the quality of any of them? That sounds like a recipe for disaster! Unverified theories floating around were given further validity when referred to by historians like Pliny, and contributed to the mystique that’s always enveloped Ancient Egypt. But back to the interviews, maybe others will be different.

John (narrator): Now we have heard from some of the most prominent Greek and Roman historians, but what did other Greek historians like Diodorus Siculus think of the Pyramids? 

Alex (Diodorus): The Egyptian Pyramids are a true masterpiece. Their size and craftsmanship “fill the beholder with wonder and astonishment.”. Herodotus’s theory is truly impossible because cranes were not invented at the time the pyramids were built, therefore, could not have been used to move the stones into place. I believe that mounds of sand were used as ramps to move the great stones up the Pyramids.  360,000 men were employed in the erection of the Great Pyramid over the span of 20 years. There is no trace remaining of their construction “so that they do not have the appearance of being the slow handiwork of men but look like a sudden creation, as though they had been made by some god and set down in the surrounding sand.”. 

John (Narrator): Were the Romans as amazed by the pyramids as their precursing visitors? Let’s hear from Julius Sextus Frontinus first.

Sid (Frontinus):  Not to brag, but I was the mastermind behind the incredible aqueducts system of Rome, something that can only be described as “indispensable”. By contrast, these Egyptian pyramids are idle and useless! Sure I’m an expert in materials and could have theorized about how these massive structures were created, but I choose not to engage in this tomfoolery. 

John (Narrator): Other Romans allowed themselves to engage in the admiration of these gargantuan creations, like the historians Ammianus Marcellinus and Tacitus. 

Sid (Ammianus)- My dear Julius, you are sorely mistaken. While most Roman philosophers like yourself and the great Pliny himself found the pyramids rather pointless, pun not intended, there were a select few of us fascinated by them and I, Ammianus Marcellinus, a soldier turned historian, was one of them. I love how Tacitus, a politician who wrote about Egyptian history put it, saying the pyramids were “mountain” like buildings, built on “almost impassable sands”. I couldn’t agree more, even saying that they were one of the seven wonders of the world, and that human labor has never produced anything this high and mighty before. I firmly agree with Herodotus’s theories about their creation, we shouldn’t be as quick to dismiss the Greeks!

John (Narrator): Similar attitudes were also reflected in the Roman kings and artists. Here’s Gaius Cestius, a Roman emperor sharing his opinions.

Sid (Cestius): Historians and philosophers have dominated the discourse about the construction of the pyramids through the years, when in fact it should be the emperors and the Roman public. My predecessor Caesar and successor Hadrian were amazed by the pyramids, and as was I, even building my tomb inside a pyramid! Just the other day, I read an incredible poem by the Roman poet Horace, who uses the difficulty involved in the construction of the pyramids, but the incredible result achieved, as a metaphor for the process of writing poems and the resultant invaluable contribution to the arts. The vast amount of labor and planning involved in their construction, something I experienced personally by building a pyramid to house my body, makes me appreciate them even more. 

Alex (Voiceover)- A Roman culture split on their views of the pyramids and how they were constructed makes for a very interesting case on their influence on orientalist thought. People like Pliny or Frontinus who didn’t create their own theories on the construction of the pyramids, dismissing them before truly understanding them, embody a pillar of orientalism- how the academic study of countries in the East is considered secondary to that of the West. However, even the emperors and historians who were obsessed with the pyramids were guilty of this, treating the study of the pyramids as a hobby rather than an intellectual pursuit.

John (Narrator): Yes! As we’ve seen the Greeks and Romans generated varying theories on the construction of the pyramids that created a cloud of uncertainty and occultism in the minds of the Greek and Roman readers who could not visit Egypt themselves. Shockingly, some of these theories have found their place even today, despite our improved knowledge and technology!

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Wheeler: Further in the future, after the French and British invasions of Egypt and the development of Archaeology as a discipline, Western science began to create some accurate theories about the pyramids; however, we also saw some more unqualified theorists giving their two cents, often attributing the construction of the Egyptian pyramids to outsiders as opposed to the Ancient Egyptians themselves.

Alex (Narrator): What are some examples of this?

Wheeler: For starters, in 1882, a man named Ignatius Donnelly wrote a book called “Atlantis: The Antediluvian World” in which he claimed that after the Lost City of Atlantis sank into the ocean, the Atlanteans migrated to Egypt and built the pyramids with their superior technologies.

Alex (Narrator): Sounds interesting. What were his qualifications to propose this theory?

Wheeler: That’s the thing – he had none. He was an American Congressman and was well known for his fringe conspiracies, but he had no actual scientific evidence for this theory. Unqualified people spreading misinformation wasn’t an uncommon occurrence around this time, either. In a 16th-century sketch from Flemish artist Maarten de Vos we see an even more exaggerated example of this. The image, titled “The Pyramids of Egypt,” depicts a mystical scene of royalty admiring the pyramids while men work at their feet carving blocks of stone. The Pyramids themselves are shown in a completely inaccurate manner, with incorrect proportions, entryways and arches that don’t exist, and even carvings on the sides and busts of people on the tops. Upon closer inspection, we see more Roman monuments that don’t actually exist in Egypt littering the background of the sketch – and there is even some sort of mysterious flying creature soaring through the sky. The royal figures are pictured in traditional Roman garments, and the Latin caption at the bottom of the image reads, “these things keep the eyes of those who have come to them for ages;” perhaps the juxtaposition of the Romans at the forefront of the image and the workers at their feet suggests that the pyramids were constructed for the marvel of the ‘superior’ Westerners.

Alex (Narrator): Surely no one took that drawing seriously though.

Wheeler: Though Maarten may not have been an Archaeologist, he was a well known historical painter of the time, so it is safe to assume that people may have trusted his depiction of Egypt. And this image was widespread, too – in 1614, Dutch printmaker Magdalena van de Passe made various prints of the sketch and distributed them. The one we looked at was at the Rhode Island School of Design Museum in Providence, Rhode Island. Similarly, because Ignatius Donnelly was such a public figure, his book was well published and reached a wide audience. Though these ideas may seem outlandish to a modern audience, they reached a lot of people, and definitely contributed to a wide Orientalist perception of Ancient Egypt, depicting it as a mystical and magical place and asserting Western dominance over it.

Alex (Narrator): Where did these thoughts even originate from?

Sid: In the Roman period, we saw the start of Egyptomania, and a resultant array of theories about the construction of the pyramids. A prominent example includes the ideas from the followers of Hermeticism. This ideology had a cult following and believed that a mythological ancient sage and demigod called Hermes Trismegistus founded the cult. They thought that he had created a system of secret knowledge hundreds of years before Romans entered Egypt and saw that there would be an apocalyptic event sometime in the future. As a result, this demigod built the pyramids to hide his knowledge deep inside them, so that future followers of the cult would be able to find it. While this sounds ridiculous, this was one of many cults at the time, and Hermeticism is only this well known because classic Christian thought criticized it, keeping it in the public eye.

Alex (Narrator): Did the association of pyramids and religion only come from cults like hermetic ones or were there others who thought similarly?

Sid: The lack of knowledge about the pyramids construction often made people resort to religion as a way of explaining them. A prominent example can be seen in an extract from Flavius Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews book two. Josephus was a military leader, but was also a respected scholar and historian. Surprisingly, despite how well read he was, he believed that the Egyptians were lazy people who could never build the pyramids themselves, and hence forced Jewish slaves to do it for them. This theory has now been debunked, but is a prime example of a key trope of orientalism- that the orient was full of barbaric and backwards societies, with cruel practices.

Wheeler: The theories equating the construction of the Pyramids to outsiders was not only common in Western Culture, but in Islamic Tradition as well. One legend accounts the construction of the Pyramids to two Yemenite Kings. These kings conquered Egypt and later built the Pyramids after having a dream foretelling disaster. Many Islamic Traditions and Legends claim that the Pyramids were built anticipating large natural disasters. These theories are now viewed as fairy tales; however, they were once received as truth and further portrayed the idea that Egyptians were lesser and could not have built the Great Pyramids by their own might.

Alex (Narrator): Well, those theories seem very outdated. They can’t still be relevant today.

John: Even in our current day, there are some influential figures that hold pretty questionable beliefs as to how the pyramids were constructed. For example, former presidential candidate, Ben Carson, strongly believed that Joseph built the pyramids to store grain, referring to the Old Testament story of Joseph. 

Another well-educated and influential person is Elon Musk, as he tweeted: “Aliens built the pyramids obv”. It was likely that he was joking, as in the following subtweets, he commented with a more plausible and archaeologically sound explanation for the pyramids. However, because Elon Musk is so influential and so many people will believe him, this tweet led to concern from Egypt’s international co-operation minister to go so far as to invite him to Egypt to see the pyramids for himself.

Additionally, if you look up “Who constructed the pyramids?” on Youtube, you will see a bunch of varying alternative theories as to how the pyramids were built. Here, we have attached a clip from the History channel’s Ancient Aliens: Secrets of the Pyramid. This full episode has amassed over 1.5 million views on Youtube alone and likely contributes to many people believing in extraterrestrial intervention in the creation of the pyramids. However, these alternative theories discredit the ancient Egyptian pyramid builders and diminish the engineering prowess, and cultural achievements of the ancient Egyptians.

So, while modern Egyptological research and science have found the most plausible explanations for the creations of the pyramids, a few questionable thinkers can still contribute to an Orientalist perspective of ancient Egypt. It is essential to approach alternative theories with a critical mindset, considering the evidence-based research conducted by scholars in the field of Egyptology in order to gain appreciation for the genuine achievements of Ancient Egypt.

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Sid (Narrator): What are some of the more plausible explanations for the construction of the pyramids that we’ve seen throughout history?

Alex: Egyptian and Muslim historians had been admiring and studying the Pyramids for hundreds of years prior to the arrival of the French in 1798. ʿAlī Mubārak was an Egyptian politician who worked towards reform and Egyptian Nationalism in the mid 1800s. Mubārak was fascinated by the history of Ancient Egypt and produced many writings on the subject. In his writings on the Pyramids, he accounts the vast previous beliefs from both Islamic and European sources on their construction and purpose. Ultimately, he seems to agree with the common Egyptological idea that the Pyramids of Giza were built by Khufu, Khafre and Menkaure. As to the process of constructing the Pyramids Mubārak does not take a distinct stand, but does refute Herodotus, claiming that the Egyptian Pharaohs responsible for the Pyramids were not cruel, but were viewed with great esteem. Although Mubārak’s writings were largely ignored by Europeans, they were widespread throughout the Islamic world and contributed heavily to the cause of Egyptian Nationalism and Independence. 

Sid (Narrator): When did Western Egyptologists start to study the Pyramids more deeply?

Wheeler: Beginning in the 18th and 19th centuries, Western scientists began to make some useful mathematical observations about the pyramids. During this time, Egyptology as a field of study was coming into its own. John Gardener Wilkinson was one of the first Westerners who was qualified in the field to publish his findings about the pyramids. Wilkinson had studied in Egypt for a long time, and in 1835, he released “Topography of Thebes,” in which he expounds upon numerous groundbreaking mathematical and geological discoveries about the pyramids, including the alignment of the temples with North and South as well the quarries that the Ancient Egyptians may have taken the stone from. Similarly, in 1859, Egyptologist John Taylor discovered a correlation between the dimensions of the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza and the numerical constant Pi. He published his findings in a book called “The Great Pyramid: Why Was It Built and Who Built It,” which was received by a wide audience.

Sid (narrator): Why were these theories any more important to the public than previous conspiracies, say, Donnelly’s Atlantis theory that you spoke about earlier?

Wheeler: Well, perhaps some might have disregarded this science in favor of fringe theory, but at this time, the fields of Archaeology and Egyptology were beginning to be respected as valid academic fields in Western scientific circles. Because people like Gardener and Taylor provided valid evidence for their discoveries, they were often taken more seriously. This helped serve to “demystify” Egypt a little, as many began to accept that it wasn’t magic that built the pyramids but the mathematical and scientific prowess of the Ancient Egyptians.

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John: Recently, science-based theories have provided the most plausible explanation as to how the pyramids were constructed, which serve to debunk a long held mystery of the pyramids. 

Wheeler (Narrator): Really? How so?

John: One of the key foundations for pyramid construction is the use of water, more specifically the Nile River. A long-held area of confusion and inquiry has been how the transportation of tons of materials was possible with the limited technologies of the time. However, a recent research paper has provided valuable insight in this area. Research conducted by Sheisha et. Al concluded that Old Kingdom pyramid constructors used the river environment of the Nile and its floods to exploit former parts of the Nile to move the tons of limestone and granite required to build the pyramids. By studying fluctuations in water levels throughout the past 8000 years, Sheisha et. al’s research can be used to support a long held theory, called the fluvial-port hypothesis. This hypothesis proposed that pyramid engineers used the annual Nile flooding like a hydraulic lift, bringing the higher water levels to the base of the Giza plateau to transport supplies and building materials directly to the pyramid site.

Wheeler (Narrator): How else was water used in the construction of the pyramids?

John: Another vital use for water explains how a large work force could have moved massive objects. At its base, the Giza pyramid was built with blocks with dimensions of 1.0 m × 2.5 m x 1.0 — 1.5 m high and weighing a staggering 6.5 — 10 tons. Ancient Egyptian evidence suggests that the blocks were first levered onto wooden sleds and then hauled up ramps made of sand. However, dry sand tends to pile up in front of a ramp which increases friction until the sled is nearly impossible to pull. This issue is eliminated when dealing with wet sand. A group of physicists experimentally tested that the friction on sand is greatly reduced by the addition of an ideal amount of water. 

Wheeler (Narrator): Okay, this is a non-Egyptologist perspective; what do Egyptologists say about this theory?

Alex: Dows Dunham, a former Egyptologist at Harvard University, proposed a similar theory in his 1965 paper, Building an Egyptian Pyramid. In creating a model of the Egyptian pyramids, they appeared to be carrying jars of water for the pyramid builders to drink or for wetting down the timbers to reduce friction. 

So, from both an Egyptologist perspective and science backed perspective, the use of water to reduce friction was not only feasible in ancient times but also essential in transporting heavy materials up ramps. Using modern methods of science and research models, scientists are able to clarify the often misheld conceptions for how the transportation of materials was organized.

Wheeler (Narrator): Okay, that explains how they got the materials to the pyramid site, but what other techniques did they use to build it? 

John: First of all, completing such a large project could not have been achieved without proper organization and extensive preparation. Evidence has been found to support the existence of a well-organized team as a pictorial representation from the tomb of the royal architect Senedjem-jb Inti (5th Dynasty) shows that the architect was in charge of planning a pyramid complex. Furthermore the discovery of Deir el-Medina, a workmen’s village which housed artisans and craftsmen who worked on the tombs in the Valley of the Kings during Middle Kingdoms into the New Kingdom, demonstrates the existence of well structured and organized systems for completing large scale projects in ancient Egypt.

Additionally, scientists have proposed that the construction of the pyramids actively involved the use of ramps and rollers. Using archaeologically attested evidence of the stepped core of the pyramids, archaeologists and Egyptologists deduced that ramps were used with their slope adjusted for the transport method chosen for the respective materials. While this evidence was used to explain the Step Pyramids from the Old Kingdom, other studies have found the use of ramps in constructing other pyramids like the Great Pyramid of Giza. 

For example, in Stephen Brichieri-Colombi’s research, Brichieri-Colombi found the ideal configuration of spiral ramps was a spiral ramp extended tangential to the pyramid. This configuration is found to be feasible by ancient Egyptians and endorses previous approaches by other archaeologists.

Alex: However, while these scientific theories that involve physics, math and geology have western scientific backing and are plausible explanations for the construction of the pyramids, it is important to keep note that most of these scholars are scientists in other fields and not Egyptologists and may not be necessarily following the best Egyptological practices. For this reason, it is vital to explore how archaeological evidence supports these theories. The fundamental finding that supports all of this contemporary research is the Wadi el-Jarf Papyri.

Wheeler: What is the Wadi el-Jarf Papyri?

Alex: The Wadi el-Jarf Papyri was discovered by Pierre Tallet, a famous French Egyptologist. It was a papyrus written in hieroglyphics by workers who built the Great Pyramid of Giza. Among the papyri was the journal of an inspector named Merer, which provided a detailed account of the daily life and work of ancient Egyptians during the construction of the Great Pyramid of Giza. This papyrus contains information about the transportation of limestone blocks to the pyramid site, the construction of a harbor at the site, and the daily activities of Merer and his team. Despite the texts being in separate fragments, they are exceptionally valuable and are a testimony to the construction of the pyramids. Using the diary, researchers were able to base and guide their current research in the field of pyramid construction. 

John: Modern research not only demystifies the construction of the pyramids but also challenges outdated perspectives rooted in orientalism, promoting a more informed and respectful appreciation of the achievements of the ancient Egyptians. As explained earlier, many of these techniques and technologies required decades of engineering and incredibly large workforces, which only speaks to how sophisticated and advanced ancient Egyptian society was. By providing more accurate explanations for the pyramids’ creation, we are able to further appreciate Ancient Egyptian society.

Conclusion:

Alex: Well, there have been a lot of theories about how the Pyramids were built. I can see why so many people nowadays have such crazy beliefs about the Pyramids.

Sid: Yeah, all of the different theories have caused great confusion and false understandings of Egypt throughout history. 

John: For the longest time I thought the Pyramids were built by aliens!

Alex: Wheeler, do you want to summarize what we learned today?

Wheeler: Yeah, throughout history, visitors to Egypt have been amazed by the Pyramids of Giza. Their theories about their construction have further contributed to the western mystification and orientalist perspectives of Ancient Egypt, establishing a widespread flawed understanding of Egypt that persists even today.

Alex: As we look at other sources on the history of ancient Egypt and the pyramids, it is important to understand the effects these theories have on modern Egypt and the true history of Ancient Egypt. Additionally, we must remember that the ancient Egyptians were real people and we must strive to honor their legacy and achievements. 

John: Thank you for listening to this episode of Now as Then.

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This podcast aims to explore the intimate connections between divinity and the Nile during three specific time periods: that of Ancient Egypt, Greco-Roman exploration of Egypt, and the Renaissance into the Enlightenment Era. Through primary and secondary source research, it is evident that Ancient Egyptians turned to religion to explain the power and importance of the Nile in everyday life. By creating a sort of godly notion associated with the Nile, this divine allure and mythological lore surrounding the river drew in scholars, conquerors, and tourists to come to Egypt and explore the mysteries which it had to offer. Upon the arrival of foreigners in Egypt, the godly ideas associated with the Nile were then perpetuated through scholarly writings by the visitors which were brought back to their homelands. Thus, as a result, the association of the Nile with divinity permeated into foreign societies in order to provide an explanation for their lack of knowledge surrounding the patterns of the river. 

Hosted by:     

Also featuring:

Segment 1: Introduction (0:00 – 1:00)

Lainey: ***intro music*** Hello everyone and welcome to season 3 episode 4 of Now As Then! Today we are going to be diving into the Nile River and discussing the perceptions and associations of the Nile throughout time. The Nile’s impacts on ancient Egyptian society and other civilizations throughout the globe have been profound, so let’s get right into it! We are coming to you now from the AV Room of the Rockefeller Library at Brown University, my name is Lainey Lynott.

Helen: I’m Helen Primis

Maria: And I’m Maria Souza

Lainey: We’re all first years at Brown University aiming to explore the idea of how Ancient Egyptians turned to religion to explain the power and importance of the Nile in everyday life. Helen: During our research, we discovered that the divine allure of the Nile drew in scholars, conquerors, and tourists alike to explore ancient Egypt. 

Maria: These visitors to Egypt then continued to perpetuate the godly ideas associated with the Nile in their own societies in order to provide an explanation for their lack of knowledge surrounding the patterns of the river. ***trumpets**

Segment 2: Ancient Egyptian Perspective (1:05 – 5:16)

Maria: To start off, how exactly did the Ancient Egyptians interact with the Nile?

Lainey: Well, daily life in Egypt was deeply intertwined with the surrounding environment. And the importance of the environment in Ancient Egypt was manifested in the plethora of excavated religious objects, songs, prayers, and sculptures that celebrated the environment which enabled the Egyptian empire to thrive over millennia.

Helen: Yes, and the case is no different for the Nile – if anything it was the most celebrated aspect of the Egyptian environment. Since the predynastic period, the Nile served as the main source of water and food to feed the Ancient Egyptian population. 

Maria: The Nile had an annual inundation cycle during the summer caused by the heavy rainfall ***rain noises***in the Ethiopian highlands. During the flood, the river levels would rise and water the land of Egypt. 

Lainey: In the book, “Egyptomania: A History of Fascination, Obsession and Fantasy,” Ronald Fritze, an American historian, writes about how Egyptians referred to their homeland as Kmt, translating to “the black land,” after the dark soil that nurtured their civilization. 

Helen: Each year, the inundation was a long awaited moment for most of the population, as the empire’s farming population needed the flood to water the soil so their crops would grow. And as a way to highlight the Nile’s importance in Egyptian society, the god Hapi was originated, the god that personified the inundation of the Nile each year. 

Maria: In Egyptian Art, Hapi is illustrated as having a bulky, androgynous figure. Unlike other gods, Hapi has a big and visible belly and large breasts. 

Lainey: Yes, and they were specifically portrayed in a more feminine light to represent the fertility that the Nile offered from the inundation. Since the Nile was imperative to Egyptian life, Hapi was sighted as one of the most important Egyptian gods amongst Ancient Egyptians. 

Maria:  Hapi was also often referred to as the unifier of Lower and Upper Egypt. We looked at a sunk relief from the Great Temple at Abul Simbel on the West Bank of the Nile River to help illustrate Hapi’s prevalence in Egyptian society. 

Helen:  This temple was erected for the worship of Pharaoh Ramesses II and the sunk relief has Hapi portrayed twice. On the left side we see him holding a lotus flower, the symbol for Upper Egypt, and then on the right holding stems of a Papyrus, the symbol for Lower Egypt. 

Lainey: Both Hapis are holding what is called a sema-tawy, which includes two tied plants meant to represent the eternal unification of both Lower and Upper Egypt.  

Helen: And aside from representing Hapi in art pieces and texts, Ancient Egyptians also conducted prayers, like the Hymn of the Nile, where they asked Hapi to bless them with the annual inundation: [transition to sound and more dramatic reading of the Hymn] 

Maria: ***water noises***“When you overflow, O Hapy, Sacrifice is made for you; Oxen are slaughtered for you, A great oblation is made to you, Fowl is fattened for you, Desert game snared for you, As one repays your bounty. One offers to all the gods of that which Hapy has provided, Choice incense, oxen goats, And birds in holocaust.” 

Helen: It is interesting to observe in this tune/text from the Middle Kingdom the tone of despair that underlies the words of the prayer. They expressed how prosperous the Nile is to Egypt, how much they needed that prosperity in their lives, and how everyone sacrificed everything for the inundation and for it to unleash its powers over the Egyptian grounds. This showcases how people explained and understood the Nile in terms of their own religion and godly perceptions, and in this case of the ancient Egyptian civilization itself. 

Lainey:At the same time the Nile was key for agriculture in Egypt, the river also served as the primary source of transportation to Ancient Egyptians. The direction of the river’s current flow and prevailing winds all favored an easy commute between different areas of Egypt, increasing communication between different people and facilitating trade. 

Helen: To express this importance, Egyptians placed models of Nile river boats in the deceased person’s tomb to guarantee them transportation for eternity. The Nile was a gift that Egyptians wanted to carry with them even in the afterlife. This demonstrates the societal draw to the Nile on a religious basis, as a key aspect of ancient Egyptian religion was the afterlife. 

Section 3: The Greco Roman Period: (5:20- 11:00)

Maria: ***Greek music*** To continue moving through our overarching timeline, we are now going to move from the Ancient Egyptian perspective and launch into ***drumroll*** the Greco-Roman Period! 

Helen: We start our journey in around 500 BCE when Greek historian Hecataeus of Miletus embarked on his visit to Egypt. Widely considered to be the first Greek on ground in Egypt and record his findings, the true tragedy of Hecateaus of Miletus’ time in Egypt is that no copies of his findings still exist today. 

Lainey: Moving on into the 450s BCE, we get our first Greek-recorded account of Egypt from Hecataeus’ successor, Herodotus. Herodotus’ compilation of writings are commonly known as The Persian Wars or The Histories. And he recounted his experiences in Egypt in Book 2 of his 9 book collection. 

Maria:  By sharing his works with the Greek public, Herodotus sparked an obsession with Egypt in Greece. Particularly Herodotus’ “Account of Egypt” served as the catalyst for Greek Egyptomania to take flight in Greek society and began a long line of academic, mythological, and personal writings of life in Egypt– particularly with questions and ideas surrounding the Nile. 

Helen: Herodotus recounted his experience witnessing the Nile’s yearly flood during his time in Egypt. He then raised a particular mysterious idea which enthralled the Greek intellectual community: “Of the sources of the Nile no one can give an account, for the part of Libya through which it flows is uninhabited and desert.”  ***trumpets*** 

Lainey:  Within Greek mythology, potamoi are specific river gods that correlate to given rivers around the world; and as Egyptomania became popularized in Greek society, Nilus emerged as the divine representative for the Nile in Greek religious practices. 

Helen: And then there are also naiads (which can be equated to the female versions of potamoi) that were also used to symbolize the inexplicable habits and actions of water, and the naiad associated with the Nile was Caliadne, a daughter of Nilus. 

Maria: As we mentioned before, Hapi was the Egyptian god responsible for the inundation of the Nile each year. In Greek mythology, we see the Greeks use Nilus’ divine power as the explanation for the Nile’s flood each year just as the Egyptians did with Hapi. 

Helen: And Caliadne then was associated with the Nile’s fertile nature and how the flood each year brought the Egyptians a plethora of natural resources. We now see a sort of pattern between the two societies – the Greeks and the Egyptians – using gods to explain the habits of the Nile. 

Lainey: Moving further on into the Greco-Roman era, we now arrive at the Alexander the Great Era of Hellenistic Egyptomania. ***cheers and applause***

Helen:And Alexander was a Grade A example of falling susceptible to the Egyptomania perpetuated by his Greek predecessors. The writings and lore surrounding Ancient Egypt preached by Greek intellectuals preceding Alexander led him to want to explore and conquer Egypt in hopes of finding the origin of the Nile. 

Lainey: Yes exactly, so Alexander sent an expedition in 332 BCE to follow the length of the Nile and try to discover the origin and other realities behind some myths associated with the river that became common lore in European societies. 

Maria:  Then further compounding on the pattern of publishing writings for the public about the divine trials and tribulations of Greco-Roman adventures in Egypt, Alexander the Great’s time and conquest of Egypt was closely recounted by a plethora of scholars, including Greek historians Plutarch and Diodorus. 

Helen: In Diodorus’ Library of History, which was published in the 45-35 BCE range, he talks about Alexander the Great’s conquest of the Nile and his mission to dispel the mythology surrounding the Nile. Then in Plutarch’s Moralia published in the mid-1st century AD, we can see Plutarch project a sort of “savior complex” of sorts onto Alexander’s role as a “truth finder” amidst the lore surrounding Egypt.  

Lainey: Now to round out this era of Greco-Roman Egyptomania and the Nile, we are going to talk a bit more in depth about the Roman take on the Nile. ***Roman music*** In Plutarch’s Moralia, he had a whole book dedicated to the overlap between Greek and Roman mythology, including the permeation of Nilus into Roman mythology. 

Maria:We see this manifested in Roman artwork in particular; for example, a massive, larger than life statue was found in Rome in an ancient Temple of Isis in the 16th century, but dated it back to sometime in the 2nd-4th century. 

Helen: This statue, known as “The Vatican Nile,” portrays the river as a godly figure in a human form, which represents how the Nile itself had some semblance of agency and intelligence as a person would. And given that the statue was found in a temple of Isis in Rome, and that this is a deification of the Nile, this statue is truly the epitome of the intersection between Roman Egyptomania and the Nile being associated with divinity.

Lainey:  This association we see of the Nile with divinity in the Roman period comes from similar ideas found during the Hellenistic, Greek, and Egyptian periods of Egyptopmania which preceded it – and it did not stop here. 

Maria:  In the post Greco-Roman period, including the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and modern-era, we consistently discovered similar ties between the river and godly intervention as more and more people explored the allure of Egypt. ***Renaissance music***

Section 4: Renaissance/Enlightenment/Post-Greco-Roman Era: (11:00-20:30)

Lainey:  Let’s jump forward in time once again. As Helen mentioned earlier, finding the source of the Nile piqued the interest of many scholars. Well, in the nineteenth century, the sources of the Nile were actually discovered. 

Maria: Yes, exactly! Two sections of the Nile were identified as sources by a British explorer named John Hanning Speke in 1863; these were called the Blue Nile and the White Nile. 

Helen: And this discovery of the Nile took away a bit of the mystery surrounding it. But, it did open the door for even more divine claims to be made in relation to the river. The sources of the Nile were described as religious, filled with spirits sent from heavenly gods during the 19th century, by British explorers. 

Maria: One specific source of the Blue Nile, Gish Abay, was a source of “holy water,” a divine river from heaven in Egypt and Ethiopia. Christians would actually pray to the flowing river and the spirits residing in that river. 

Lainey: And along with Christianity, Islamic scriptures also tie religion into the Nile sources. Egyptian Muslims saw the Nile as a gift from the god, Allah, and believed that Allah could cause the Nile sources to flow. 

Helen: There was actually some tension between Christians and Muslims over what religion was most dominant over the Nile, its sources, and flowing patterns. Thus, Christians and Muslims alike were drawn to the Nile to defend the upholdings of their respective divine gods in terms of placement with the Nile.

Maria: In other words, these examples prove our claim that the divinity of the Nile attracted people to the Nile. We see here both European Christians and Egyptian Muslims using godly association to explain the Nile’s patterns. 

Helen: In addition, during this modern period, travel along the Nile increased. Many members of European society traveled along the Nile in order to spread the word of Christianity. 

Lainey: Even before the source of the Nile was discovered, tourism along the Nile was huge around 1685 and onward. A common trip on the Nile river began in Alexandria and went through different Egyptian cities including Memphis, Thebes, through Cairo, and finally to Nubia.

Maria: This conversation brings us to our special collections object from the John Hay Library at Brown University, Cook’s Travel Handbook. Brown University’s Karen Bouchard, the Archaeology and the Ancient World specialist librarian, contextualized Cook’s Travel Book for us. 

Helen: We first asked her: why are primary sources, like Cook’s traveling handbook, so crucial in research projects? What insights can they provide us that secondary sources cannot? Here’s what she had to say:

Karen Bouchard: “Well, they give you the original, right, you’re getting it right from the horse’s mouth. If you go to a secondary source, those are still very valuable because you’re getting insight from scholars who are looking at those primary sources, but you’re not getting the actual first-hand knowledge yourself. You may learn something different from looking at the primary source that you may not have picked up by reading the secondary sources, and so seeing what the actual person in the nineteenth century wrote about Egypt tells you a lot more than just looking at it through somebody else’s eyes.”

Helen: To follow up, we asked Karen about her personal comments on Cook’s Handbook. Given that it was published in the late 19th century, what sort of influence does the era have on the source, Karen?

Karen Bouchard: “Well Thomas Cook, they did tours for people so that’s how they got started. They ran tours for, kind of, middle class people. So it was kind of the first time in the Victorian era that people who weren’t rich could go on these tours and guided tours, so that’s how it started in England. They put out these handbooks kind of as publicity for their tours, but you could buy a handbook and take it with you if you went on your own as well so that you wouldn’t miss any of the sites when you went to Egypt.”

Lainey: So as Karen referenced, Thomas Cook was an Englishman who traveled around the world, recorded important tourist information, and published his accounts for others to follow if they were to explore any of the regions he had encountered. 

Helen: We were actually able to examine this object hands-on at the John Hay Library, and it’s evident that this book, from its small size and organized chapters of accounts, was meant to be distributed to the public. Cook published this handbook for Egypt in 1897. 

Maria: While Cook mostly explains the Egyptian monuments, canals, and ports, he also discusses biblical associations with the Nile. Cook writes about how the Nile was mentioned in Biblical Scripture and even cites specific bible chapters from Amos and Jeremiah. In these scriptures, the annual inundation of Egypt is alluded to, and Cook explains the prophecy of Isaiah in which God dries and smites the Nile in response to sin. 

Lainey: This goes to show the use of religion, in this case Christianity, to explain Nile flooding as the surging and subsiding of the Nile was viewed as a result of mourning and sin. Now as I mentioned before this book was widely distributed to public populations. So it is interesting to note that Cook included biblical Nile accounts because they are unrelated to travel, which is the purpose of this book. By doing this every person who read Cook’s travel accounts, who were just reading for travel purposes, were exposed to Nile-Christian relationships. 

Maria: A cycle was created from this in which biblical associations with the Nile were known and spread through travel accounts, and then more people were inspired to travel in order to experience said biblical associations.

Helen: Further than just discussion of Christian associations, Cook’s Travel Handbook also discussed actual travel along the Nile in terms of Christianity and Coptic Christianity. Cook explains his travels through Coptic Convents, villages of priests, Christian tombs, and Christian temples found along the Nile. 

Lainey:  Yes, for instance, Cook directly states:“the innumerable tombs, of which the Stabl Autar is the principal, are interesting from their Egyptian remains and also from their Christian associations, as being tenanted by monks and hermits.” Again, Cook draws specific attention to Christianity along the Nile for an audience that is European and Christian, increasing ties and incentive for European travel to Egypt. 

Helen: Thus, European societies held firm connections between their faith and the Nile from biblical citations and exploratory accounts, increasing attention to the Nile, and causing travel up and down the Nile. 

Maria: Let’s give a quick shout out to (Karen Bouchard) for helping us examine Cook’s Travel Handbook in the John Hay Library! ***applause*** Thank you so much for your help. 

Lainey: As we just discussed, in this age of European exploration, literature was a main source of distributing primary information regarding the Nile River. In travel accounts, the ways in which Egypt was written about contributed to the spread of Christian association with the Nile. Consequently, European interest in the Nile grew in conjunction with these Christian associations so that people could understand why and how the river flowed in their own beliefs.

Maria: Let’s consider some more sources. In an 1854 letter from the traveler Florence Nightingale, Nightingale illustrates that he felt a desire to experience the mysterious, spiritual Nile firsthand, and hence traveled to Egypt along the Nile. He also explains experiencing a supernatural and spiritual feeling while traveling along the river. 

Lainey: The portrayal of the Nile as “spiritual” reproduces the idea of the “divine Nile.” These accounts contributed to an increase in Egyptian exploration along the Nile to experience this broad sense of spirituality, which was applied to religions. Hence the draw of travelers to the Nile, to understand the Nile, was built upon the relationships between the Nile and religion. 

Helen: Let’s hone back in again on Christianity because after the fifteenth century European conquest in Egypt and the spread of European Christianity with the Nile was really huge. In the Renaissance period from 1450 to 1650, the Nile was endowed with especially divine connotations.

Maria: In Renaissance literature from European travelers, the Nile was described as “Earthly paradise” and “divine creation.” Travelers were fascinated and impressed by the Nile, and they actually related it to an expression of Christian divinity. 

Helen: To add onto that, many European scholars at the time, including Franciscan friar Suriano and Johann Michael Heberer directly associated the Nile with what they called “earthly paradise.” These scholars then wrote about their fascinations, spreading these wondrous associations with the public back in Renaissance Europe. 

Maria: Along with general wonder, scholars at this time were intrigued by the floods of the Nile. When explaining the Nile inundation, scholar and traveler Jean de Joinville stated “Nobody knows how these inundations occur, unless it be by God’s will.” 

Lainey: Thus, during this time, Christianity was used as an explanation for the patterns of the Nile in terms of flooding, proving our claim that religious allure drew people in to explore Egypt and perpetuate religious Nile concepts into their societies in order to understand the river. 

Segment 5: Counter (20:30- 23:21)

Lainey: So, as we’ve discussed, the associations of the Nile to religious affiliations emphasizes the Nile’s relationships with divinity, life, and spirituality. However, there are multiple sides to this discussion, and we’ve found that in addition to the “holy” Nile perceptions which attracted travelers, the Nile also had some associations with death. ***gasp*** 

Maria: During the Napoleonic Era in the eighteenth century, death was highly associated with the Nile due to the fact that the French Conquest of Egypt took place during maritime warfare. There were actually battles on the Nile during this time, and because of this many soldiers as well as Egyptian, French, and British citizens drowned in the Nile during wartime. 

Helen: The traveler and scholar Vivant Devon actually wrote about his experience in Egypt during the time of the French Conquest and exemplified the deaths in the Nile during combat in attempts at battle through his writings.

Lainey: This alternate portrayal of the Nile is completely different from aspects of our claim that Nile intrigue and travel increased on the backbone of religious purposes. These darker Nile accounts don’t discredit what we’ve proven regarding the perpetuation of godly associations with the Nile for different societies, rather this demonstrates a different side of the coin representing a draw to the Nile. 

Maria: To add on, while the Nile has been mostly portrayed as a blessing so far, this body of water has also been represented as frightening and destructive. Although the flooding provided the water needed to fertilize the Egyptian soil, when the river inundated beyond the expected, it washed away and destroyed everything in its wake. 

Helen: To understand this flip side of the coin, we can use John Robert Huddlestun comparative study of the River Nile in Ancient Egypt and The Hebrew Bible. In religious books, the Nile was described as a violent sea with a deadly inundation cycle in this particular context. In Bible chapters of Amos, the cycle of flooding and sinking was referred to as a destructive pattern of building and torring, connecting it to effects of an Earthquake. 

Lainey: In Isaiah 19:5-10, the river is shown to be a destroyer of temples and explicitly states that everything that was previously sown by the Nile would eventually disappear. Exodus shares how the River turned into blood and thus portraying it as part of the plague against Egypt (Exod 7:14-25). 

Helen: We bring this information to light because religion is a multifaceted concept. Most of what we have found highlights positive perspectives on the Nile and the ways in which divinity drew people in. But at the same time, more negative, dangerous aspects of divinity existed and created a sense of caution towards the Nile throughout time. And the caution toward the Nile was merited given just how powerful the river was. Still, this caution caused an increase in attention to the Nile, supporting our notion that generally speaking, whether positive or negative,  religion proliferated the understanding of the Nile in multiple societies. ***trumpets***

Segment 6: Conclusion (23:24 – 24:49)

Maria: So, what’s the point of what we’re getting at? Why exactly do we care about the divine nature of the Nile? 

Helen: As we discussed in the very beginning of this podcast, the Nile was the very lifeblood of Egypt. To pay respect to and try and explain the patterns of the Nile, the Egyptians turned to divinity. 

Lainey: But what is really interesting and important about the divine association with the Nile was how it successfully made its way into other powerful dynasties outside of Egypt. 

Maria: Yes, exactly, it was a way in which other intellectuals and historians from foreign empires paid a mutual respect to the empire which the Egyptians built around the miraculous patterns of the Nile. 

Lainey: We’ve had so much fun in the process of making this podcast and we hope that you had fun over the last 30 minutes with us. 

Helen: Thank you so much to everyone who has helped make this episode possible: special shoutout to our wonderful professor Dr. Robyn Price for her work in this seminar, all of the librarians at Brown University who have helped us put this episode together including Laura Stokes, Izzy Ulasz, and Karen Bouchard, and then lastly Director of Museum Academic Programming at RISD Art Museum, Alexandra Poterack.

Lainey: This has been Lainey,

Helen: Helen,

Maria:  And Maria, and thank you for listening to Now As Then. ***outro music*** 

Exhibit A:

Relief of Hapi from the Great Temple at Abu Simbel. (c.1279-1213 BCE). From the colossal statues of Ramesses II, Abu Simbel, Egypt. Link.

Exhibit B:

Model of a River Boat. (c.2046-1794 BCE). Art Institute of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois, United States. Link.

Exhibit C:

Dore, Gustave. “The Child Moses on the Nile.” Exodus 2:1-4, illustration from Dore’s ‘The Holy Bible’, engraved by H.Pisan. 1866. The Bridgeman Art Library. https://search.credoreference.com/articles/Qm9va0FydGljbGU6MzI0NTgxMA== 

Exhibit D:

Fragment with Personifications of Victory and the Nile. (6th Century). Byzantine. Object number: 1971.49.1.  The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, New York. Link.

Exhibit E

Swetnam-Burland, Molly. Egypt Embodied: The Vatican Nile. American Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 113. The University of Chicago Press, 2009, pp. 439-457, Link . 

Blanford Edward, Amelia Ann. “A Thousand Miles up the Nile.” London, George Routledge and Sons, 1889, Gale Primary Sources, Link. 

Denon, Vivant. Travels in Upper and Lower Egypt, during the campaigns of General Bonaparte. 1802. F. Cundee, for B. Crosby and Co. (London), Volume 1, Gale Primary Sources, Link. 

Diodorus. Library of History: Vol 1 and Vol 17. Loeb Classical Library Ebook, (Link). 

Erlikh, Ḥagai and Israel Gershoni. The Nile: Histories, Cultures, and Myths. 2000. Boulder, Lynne Rienner Publishers, eBook, EbscoHost, Link. 

Firew, Gedef Abawa and Terje Oestigaard. The Source of the Blue Nile: Water Rituals and Traditions in the Lake Tana Region. 2014. Cambridge Scholars Publishing, eBook, Google Books, Link. 

Fritze, Ronald H.. Egyptomania : A History of Fascination, Obsession and Fantasy. Reaktion Books, 2016, pp. 71-107. ProQuest Ebook, Link. 

Hard, Robin. The Routledge Handbook of Greek Mythology: Eighth Edition. Taylor and Francis Group, 2020, Ebook, Link. 

Herodotus. The Persian Wars: Book 2 (An Account of Egypt). Translated by George Rawlinson. Introduction by Francis R. B. Godolphin. New York: Modern Library, 1947. Link.

John Robert Huddlestun. Who is this that Rises like the Nile? A Comparative Study of the River Nile in Ancient Egypt and the Hebrew Bible. University of Michigan ProQuest (1996). Dissertations Publishing. Link. 

Lurker, Manfred. The Routledge Dictionary of Gods, Goddesses, Devils, and Demons. Taylor and Francis Group, 1984, ProQuest Ebook, Link.  

Minutoli, Wolfradine. Women travelers on the Nile. 1827. Cairo: The American University in Cairo Press, Gale Primary Sources, Link. 

Moorehead, Alan. The White Nile. 1960. Harper and Brothers Publishers, 1960. 

Nightingale, Florence. Letters From Egypt. 1854. Printed by A. & G. A. Spottiswoode (London), Gale Primary Sources, Link. 

Oestigaard, Terje. The Religious Nile : Water, Ritual and Society since Ancient Egypt, I. B. Tauris & Company, ProQuest EBook, 2018, Link. 

Oliver J. Thatcher. Vol. I: The Ancient World. Milwaukee University Research Extension Co., 1907, pp. 79-83, Link.  

Peck, W. (2013). Transportation. In The Material World of Ancient Egypt (pp. 162-170). 

Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. doi:10.1017/CBO9781139034296.014. Link. 

Plutarch. Moralia: Parallels between Greek and Roman Stories, On the Fortune or the Virtue of Alexander the Great, and Isis and Osiris. Loeb Classical Library Ebook, Link. 

Seneca the Younger. Natural Questions. Loeb Classical Library Ebook, Link. 

Swetnam-Burland, Molly. Egypt Embodied: The Vatican Nile. American Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 113. The University of Chicago Press, 2009, pp. 439-457, Link . 

Thomas Cook (firm). Cook’s Tourists’ Handbook for Egypt, the Nile, and the Desert. T. Cook & Son, 1897.

Vasunia, Phiroze. The Gift of the Nile : Hellenizing Egypt from Aeschylus to Alexander. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2001, Ebook, Link.

Wilkinson, Richard, H. The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson, 2017. 

Bell, B. (1971). The Dark Ages in Ancient History. I. The First Dark Age in Egypt. American Journal of Archaeology, 75(1), 1–26. https://doi.org/10.2307/503678

Lichtheim, M. (Ed.). (2019). Two Pseudepigrapha. In Ancient Egyptian Literature (1st ed., pp. 691–705). University of California Press. https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctvqc6j1s.41   Lichtheim, M. (Ed.). (2019). Songs and Hymns. In Ancient Egyptian Literature (1st ed., pp. 240–259). University of California Press. https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctvqc6j1s.19

Cleopatra has become a captivating figure throughout the world. Yet, her depiction in the media may not be representative of who she truly was. From Western Asia to Ancient Egypt, these views deserve the same respect as the ones dominated by Europe. In this podcast, we’ll use these depictions to present a more accurate portrayal of Cleopatra and promote future integration. 

Hosted by:

Also featuring:

Segment 1: Introduction (0:00)

Brendan: When you think of Egypt, what first comes to mind? 

Cuddy: Pyramids?

Julia: Mummies?

Brendan: King Tut?

Brendan: While all of these are important symbols, there’s no way you forgot about one of the most famous Egyptian figures: Cleopatra. Constantly referenced throughout modern culture and media, the Last Queen of Egypt has captivated the interests of so many people today. Yet, our perception has not always been this way. In fact, immediately after her death, it might have been the complete opposite. 

Intro Music

Brendan: Hi, my name is Brendan Rathier…

Cuddy: My name is Cuddy Steadman…

Julia: And my name is Julia Xia…

Brendan: And in this podcast, we’re going to discuss, debunk, and debate some of the largest topics surrounding Cleopatra. From famous Roman philosophers to Shakespeare’s grand plays, we’ll discuss how the queen’s legacy has changed beyond her death. 

Julia: We’ll also be joined by Dr. Kerri Lorigan, an Associate Professor at Langston University. With a specialty in Roman Egyptology, Dr. Lorigan will offer insight into these different depictions and how we should be viewing this famous figure. 

Cuddy: Finally, we hope to dissect some issues still contested today: How did Cleopatra die? What was her skin color? All of these questions and more will be answered in “Now as Then” Episode 3.2: Cleopatra. 

Intro Music

Segment 2: Cleopatra Intro & Early Reception (1:44)

Brendan: There’s no better way to introduce Cleopatra than by starting at the very beginning. Born around 69 BCE to Ptolemy XII, she served as the last active ruler of the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Egypt. Following her father’s death, Cleopatra ascended to the throne alongside her younger brother and husband Ptolemy XIII. However, after a power struggle erupted between the two rulers, Cleopatra was exiled to Syria. 

Julia: That’s far from the end of her though! She later returned to Alexandria with an army and gained the support of Julius Caesar, who had invaded Egypt to take over his rival Pompey, and with his support, she regained power in Egypt. At the same time, Cleopatra had an open affair with Caesar and gave birth to their child, Caesarion. This relationship would continue until Caesar’s assassination in 44 BC. At this time, she saw to it that her new brother-husband was also killed.

Cuddy: That’s certainly a lot of death. But isn’t there more to the story?

Brendan: You’re certainly right Cuddy! While Caesar and Cleopatra were a popular pair, the most famous relationship was between her and Marc Antony. After Antony visited Egypt around 41 BCE for military aid, the two fell in love with one another and had three children. This affair angered Caesar’s heir Octavian, who had arranged for Marc Antony to marry his sister instead. As such, Octavian would wage this propaganda war against the couple and cited Cleopatra’s status as a woman and foreigner who wanted Roman power.

Cuddy: Wow, so even when she was alive, Cleopatra’s perception was constantly distorted against her. 

Brendan: Yeah, it really is depressing… Unfortunately, this rivalry between the two rulers would take an even worse turn at the Battle of Actium in 31 BCE. After the fight, Cleopatra’s entire fleet was defeated by Rome, causing them to escape to Alexandria. From here, the fighting continued with Octavian invading Egypt directly. Finally, after falsely hearing that Cleopatra had died, Marc Antony committed suicide in 30 BCE. Soon later, Cleopatra took her own life as well rather than serving as a captive to Octavian. So, amidst a decade of betrayal and love, Cleopatra’s death marked the end of Egyptian rule in Egypt.

Julia: That’s true… While this engaging story has been recited throughout history, it is only one perspective on the queen. Dominated by Western tropes, this standard narrative focuses on dramatization, romance, and power. There are so many aspects of her life that are absent from this story. However, as it is the victors that write history, most of the sources we do have about Cleopatra are not Egyptian, but rather Roman and Greek. Ranging from philosophers to politicians, these powerful figures have rewritten Cleopatra’s legacy to support their agendas. So, let’s focus on a few of these depictions and see how they compare. Specifically, we’ll focus on their depiction of Cleopatra’s death and some of her actions beforehand. Let’s get to it! Wanna start Cuddy? 

Cuddy: Sure! Two of the Romans who wrote about Cleopatra were Plutarch and Cassius Dio, and both of their depictions of the queen follow a similar pattern. In the moments leading up to her death, the two cite Cleopatra’s charisma and cleverness as key attributes. In fact, during her capture by Octavian, both writers illustrate such traits in action. Because Octavian wished to keep Cleopatra alive to showcase his success to Rome, the queen was determined to stop herself from ever leaving Egypt.

Julia At first, she used her charisma to plead with Octavian to let her die. But, after gaining little progress, she reversed her stance and made it appear as if she was eager to live. This approach had much more success, as Octavian loosened restrictions on Cleopatra. 

Cuddy: Exactly! According to the two Romans, this then allowed the queen to lock herself in a room with two servants, dress herself in royal attire, and give herself a noble death. So, in the final moments of her life, Plutarch and Cassius Dio give her some dignity.

Julia: Yeah at least they showed some respect by acknowledging her devotion to Egypt. Still, the scene is tainted with tropes of sexuality and slyness. What’s worse, is that these initial transcriptions have set the basic understanding of Cleopatra today.

Brendan: OK, so after hearing all of these stories. You’re probably asking, how did Cleopatra really die? Well, the answer is: we don’t know! While the works by Plutarch and Cassius Dio, (and other Roman authors) go into speculation, there isn’t a conclusive answer. Some say that she killed herself with a poisonous dagger, while others cite an apsis snake being the prime conspirator. Even more dramatized depictions speculate that she was bitten in the butt or breast (I believe that’s the one Octavian supported). Let’s ask Dr. Lorigan what she thinks: 

Dr. Lorigan (6:44-7:46): She’s a very strong and ambitious woman and I don’t feel like she is the type of woman to give up and poison herself. I think that probably Octavian had her murdered. He controlled the narrative about her death, so these things about the snakebite come actually out in his memoirs after he’s made himself Augustus. He pushes the idea that she got bitten by a snake. But we know that after he found her and she was dead, he had her son Caesarion hunted down: he was the son of Caesar. So now, he had removed all of the threats to the throne. So probably the most credible theory is that he had her killed because honestly, this woman who had fought so hard (she murdered her younger brother, she got married to him and then married her other brother, she dealt with Caesar, she dealt with Marc Antony) to keep Egypt and fight for her position. I just don’t see her as a woman that could’ve committed suicide. 

Brendan: What a hot take huh? In addition to Dr. Lorigan, Ana Rosso from the International Society of the History of Medicine thoroughly researched this topic too. In her report about Cleopatra’s death, she determined that the viper would be the most likely snake to kill her as it is pain-free and easily concealable.,

Cuddy: That’s true, but even though there is speculation, there is no way for us to know exactly how she died.

Julia: I think it’s unfortunate that the earliest accounts of Cleopatra’s death are once again controlled by non-Egyptians. So many of these writers started the theories we know today. It is really important that we’re aware of their motives when consuming Ancient Egyptian content. We also need to start introducing sources beyond the Western Hemisphere. While the Romans may refute it, being bit in the breast is far from the queen’s legacy. 

Brendan: Fortunately, we do have some sources from Egypt about Cleopatra’s life, and they represent a different side of her. For example, an Egyptian hieroglyph inscribed in stone around 51 BCE cites Cleopatra as a “goddess who loves her father”. Additionally, in the Temple of Dendera, images on the walls depict Cleopatra standing behind her son Caesarion, who would become the next heir to Egypt. Because Hathor acts as a mother to the god Horus, which is embodied in the pharaoh, Cleopatra intentionally depicts herself as the goddess to protect and guide her son as the next ruler.,

Cuddy: You know, another unique characteristic about that is the height of the two figures. Usually, the mother is depicted as shorter than the son. But, in this illustration, Cleopatra is the same height as Caesarion, showing her dominance in the relationship. These two depictions show a different side of Cleopatra: while Plutarch and Cassius Dio try to degrade the ruler as ruthless and cynical, here we see Cleopatra as both a devoted mother and daughter. Additionally, both sources tie Cleopatra to a godly and superior status, cementing her influence throughout Ancient Egypt. 

Julia: And if you were still unsure about the queen’s dominance, take a look at some Egyptian currency. While earlier coins of the Ptolemaic dynasty depict the man as the leading figure, coins minted after her death specifically showcase Cleopatra on the front and Marc Antony on the back. This could imply that Cleopatra was the more powerful figure in their relationship. 

Brendan: Hopefully, after all of this, you can see that there’s more to Cleopatra than what you’ve seen in modern media. Yes, Cleopatra may have been this clever figure who captivated some very powerful men. But she was also a leader, mother, daughter, philosopher, chemist, and much more. We asked Dr. Lorigan about her thoughts on who Cleopatra was as a person, and this is what she had to say:

Dr Lorigan (10:38-11:34): So she really worked to associate herself with Egypt. Again, she did math, chemistry, and philosophy, and it’s said that she hung out with philosophers all the time, talked to them, and even published books. A lot of the research there says that people in Egypt loved her. She was a great pharaoh, she made connections with the Arab world, and she turned Egypt from basically a bankrupt country that was in a civil war to the richest country in the Mediterranean. Because she was such a shrewd businessperson. And she kept Egypt free from Roman rule. Egypt was the very last nation to fall to the Romans when they sought to take over everything. She worked very hard, and that should be her legacy, not this woman who slept with a bunch of men and got very powerful.

Brendan: Well I think Dr. Lorigan perfectly summarized Cleopatra’s true identity. But regardless of origin, her image has been constantly molded to fit different agendas. While the Romans wanted to further their dominance and authority, the Egyptians wanted to uphold her status as an amazing pharaoh. So, it’s really important to look beyond the stereotypes we see in modern media. In seconds, we’re now going to fast forward a few hundred years (focusing on the Medieval & Renaissance eras) and see how these depictions and agendas changed, how they’ve stayed the same, and if there is [sic] any differences between the East and West. Spoiler alert: there are. Cuddy, take it away!

Segment 3: Eastern vs. Western Depictions of Cleopatra (12:20)

Cuddy: Yeah, so given all the intrigue and speculation regarding Cleopatra’s life and death, it’s easy to make up stories about her life and make inaccurate cultural depictions of her. And oh boy, did Europeans do that. During the Middle Ages and Renaissance, Cleopatra as a subject of fact and fiction exploded in the Western cultural imagination. 

Julia: In Elizabethan times, one of the most famous authors in English history wrote the seminal work on Cleopatra: Antony and Cleopatra, the play by Shakespeare. Lauded since its inception, this play was first performed in 1607, but the first written copy we have comes from 1623. 

Cuddy: The play depicts Cleopatra as much more than the one-dimensional caricature of femininity depicted in most works of the time. Indeed, Cleopatra is widely regarded as the most complex and developed female character in all of Shakespeare’s works. She presents a multifaceted interplay between a seductive manipulator and a powerful opportunist. 

Brendan: Shakespeare explores the dynamics of power and love, and how these forces intertwine in the lives of Cleopatra and Antony. Cleopatra is not just a lover; she is a queen with her own ambitions and agency. Her relationship with Antony is depicted as one of mutual passion and political alliance, rather than a one-sided affair. This portrayal reflects both an interest in Cleopatra herself and the broader Renaissance fascination with the classical world, where figures like Cleopatra were reimagined through the lens of contemporary values and ideas.

Julia: Yeah, that play has had a lasting impact on how these historical figures are perceived. It has influenced numerous artistic and literary works, and its portrayal of Cleopatra has contributed significantly to the enduring fascination with her character. Indeed, in an 1867 copy of the play we have here at the John Hay Library, the editor’s note states that “[Antony and Cleopatra] is too vast, too gorgeous, to be approached without some prostration of the understanding…We have read it again and again, and the impression which it leaves again and again is that of wonder.”

Cuddy: But people didn’t just reissue Antony and Cleopatra, and although it was certainly the most popular cultural rendition of Cleopatra up through the 19th century, it was not the only one. Another prominent depiction comes from a short story entitled “Une nuit de Cléopâtre,” by Théophile Gautier, a French writer and poet from the early to mid-19th century. This work definitely puts a lot less emphasis on, shall we say, historical accuracy. 

Brendan: Absolutely, so the work begins with Cleopatra admitting to her servant that she is having a bit of an existential crisis about her rule of Egypt, and only love can rid her of her sadness. Once again, Cleopatra is shown as simply a love-obsessed ruler who is less interested in ruling a country than in her various pursuits with men. A lover arrives named Meïamoun, who admires her and her beauty. Cleopatra decides to entertain his love for the night but is drawn back to reality when Antony arrives, at which point she poisons Meïamoun, leaving him to die.

Cuddy: We got to take a look at a translation of this book that had illustrations by Paul Avril, which is a pseudonym for ​​Édouard-Henri Avril, an erotic illustrator. Our copy was published sometime in the 1890s and was some of the most overtly sexualized content about Cleopatra from this time period. Many of the illustrations depict Cleopatra using typical Orientalist tropes, such as small clothing, belly dancing, and seductive acts. Evidently, the popular fascination with Cleopatra carried over into the objectification of women common during this time period.

Julia: Something to note about this copy is the time period during which it was written; you see, the original text comes from before the scramble for Africa when the Ottoman Eyalet of Egypt still technically ruled Egypt, but the illustrations and publication of the copy we have is from after Britain fully controlled Egypt. The illustrations reflect this, depicting Cleopatra as subservient to the outsider who comes to court her and should be a reflection of the culture surrounding Egypt during this period. 

Brendan: Exactly! The orientalist themes of subjugation and inferiority are part of the larger pattern of Western behavior when using Cleopatra’s story. Whether it be Plutarch in the 1st century or artists in the 19th century, Cleopatra as a figure was used to further a political agenda, instead of being remembered in her own right. 

Cuddy: These depictions range from complex and intricate to simplistic and demeaning. Yet, they all present Cleopatra as an object attached to Antony rather than her own independent person. Although the focus on Mark Antony has dwindled over time, the view of Cleopatra as a lesser ruler who tried to distract and manipulate those around her has been cemented in the modern perception of Cleopatra and resulted from these various cultural depictions during the formative period of modern Western culture.

Brendan: Now that we’ve looked at Cleopatra’s perception beyond ancient times, you may think that the rest of her legacy has been generalized to fit this Western mold. However, that is far from the truth. Just like how Ancient Egypt represents the queen in a different light, the Arab world’s reception of the queen also starkly contrasts the works from Europe. Whether it is due to a lack of translations or simply European discrimination (we don’t really know), these works are often overshadowed by the more dramatic depictions in the West. 

Julia: You’re right. In the book Egyptology: The Missing Millennium, Egyptologist Okasha El Daly illuminates the forgotten part of Egyptian study. Using a variety of secondary sources from Islamic authors, he argues that Western humanities undermine the native perspective of Ancient Egypt. From the medieval age to the rise of colonialism, these perspectives create a depiction of Egypt that is more representative of its inhabitants. Specifically, in his segment about Cleopatra, El Daly emphasizes an absence of any seductive or sexual representations. Interesting right? 

Cuddy: Absolutely! Whereas the Europeans depicted her very romantically, Cleopatra is praised by the Arabs for her accomplishments as a scholar. For example, one book written in 690 CE by an Egyptian bishop describes a Cleopatra who worked tirelessly in the interests of her people. Labeled as the “wisest amongst women,” the queen initiated many public works throughout Egypt. 

Brendan: Particularly, Cleopatra reconstructed Alexandria by converting water into land with dikes. She even installed a canal to bring excess water to the city. These immense projects parallel the praise by Ancient Egyptians. While we may not have a lot of these sources, they unlock key info into the queen’s past as both a ruler and politician. 

Julia: So, what’s the takeaway from this? To show that there are so many different depictions of Cleopatra throughout history. Although this perspective by the Middle East provides excellent information, it is often discarded in pre-modern and modern depictions. 

Cuddy: We posit that the reason for this is portraying Cleopatra as an intelligent and strong woman with political acuity would have been disruptive to the image of both Egypt and women that was propped up in the West as truth during the period when these works were written. Therefore, it was politically expedient to instead claim that Cleopatra was a manipulative, helpless ruler who used her charm to gain any power she could. 

Julia: Exactly. Instead of being shown in her own right, she was made a secondary figure tied to the men in her life. The narrative about Cleopatra has been controlled for so long by various groups that we don’t have a broad range of perspectives on Cleopatra. This has done very real and tangible harm over time: we talked to Dr. Lorigan about this, and this is what she had to say: 

Dr. Lorigan (20:20-21:00): We don’t have people that really even know about her writing, [sic] writing about her. Or who wanted to try to put her in a good light. And later, as you have these powers like the Roman Empire taking over, and then later the European empires, you have this colonialism and racism taking shape and we are, like, pushing this colonialist narrative, and social Darwinism, that kind of seeks to erase all these voices of the people in the colonized country [sic] because we need to see them as unintelligent and inferior. So, we can’t look at their scholarly sources and things like that.

Brendan: When we compare this narrative to the Eastern sources from the time, the more accurate version of history is clear. But even now, we don’t hear about Cleopatra’s political prowess and intelligence. This tired trope of Cleopatra in relation to Caesar and Mark Antony is used again and again to the point where it’s all that most people think of her as nowadays. But the real question is, how do we think of her nowadays? 

Cuddy: I’m so glad you asked! Let’s talk about how Cleopatra’s image has shifted in the past century. In the age of social media, her popularity has changed in many ways. While past representations remain, there is this new mix of depictions by different groups throughout the globe. Ranging from Europe to Africa, there’s certainly a lot to talk about, right Julia? 

Segment 4: Modern Representations of Cleopatra (21:45)

Julia: Absolutely! What do you think of when you hear the name Cleopatra? 

Cuddy: Well, probably a woman wearing gold, maybe some dark eyeliner. Someone mysterious, maybe alluring and seductive. 

Julia: Exactly! Her name rings a bell. A quick search on the online movie database IMDb yields 71 titles tagged with Cleopatra. Whether those are full-blown movies made about her, like the 1963 film Cleopatra directed by Joseph L. Mankiewicz, or if she’s a character, like in the 2005 Scooby-Doo movie, Where’s My Mummy?, Cleopatra’s story has often been repacked and retold in film and media. Cleopatra holds a prominent place in Western culture, and the recognizability of her likeness has made her a highly commercialized figure. 

Brendan: Absolutely! The 1963 movie tells the story of Cleopatra amid a changing Egypt under intruding Roman influences. Cleopatra’s entrance into the film is a bold one, rolling out of a red carpet dressed in red after being presented as a gift to Caesar. Immediately, Cleopatra employs something of flirtation and emboldened confidence to achieve her goal of becoming Queen, even asking Caesar outright for the title.

Julia: Yeah, she is acknowledged for her intelligence, wit, and proficiency as a ruler, yet her sexuality is brought into the conversation but to highlight her domineering nature, “taking lover by the number over names”.

Brendan: Yeah, in this modern, Western portrayal, Cleopatra’s prowess is extremely distinct. With the retrospective knowledge of Cleopatra as a Queen among Egypt’s few Queens and Egypt’s last ruler, the film juxtaposes her masculinizing and feminizing features. 

Cuddy: Cleopatra herself is played by Elizabeth Taylor, a prominent Hollywood actress who at her death was memorialized and described by The New York Times as a “beauty incarnate”. Through Elizabeth Taylor, this association and classification of Cleopatra with beauty is created. 

Julia: Whether she is lounging about in the baths or strategizing her next move, Cleopatra is adorned in colorful and beautiful costumes with striking black eyeliner. Even the set design of her scenes has extra opulence: the boat she takes to Rome is mast with red sails, women lounging about in colorful dresses, and Cleopatra is dramatically veiled behind white curtains sitting between two cat statues. 

Brendan: Yeah, there is this mystical, untouchable, otherworldliness to Cleopatra, and whether that sets her above or on par with Caesar and Mark Antony, their influences take prominence in her story. She becomes romantically involved with Caesar, bearing him a child. In scenes where she speaks with Mark Antony, he holds jealousy towards Cleopatra’s relationship with Caesar. Caesar comes between many conversations, and Cleopatra seems to have the skill of bringing out Mark Antony’s vulnerabilities and insecurities regarding his envy towards Caesar.

Julia: Exactly, this romance arc becomes pivotal to the plot, with politics and relationships blurring the lines. Whether that is Cleopatra crying on the floor pleading with Mark Antony or the two characters dramatically slapping each other in fits of anger, Mark Antony even admits that the reason he came to Egypt was to follow Cleopatra, his “love”. But, ultimately, the drama of love in Cleopatra’s life is the most distinct and marketable aspect for a film at a whopping four hours long. 

Cuddy: Whew, I get tired just from listening to this description. What about more simple and digestible portrayals of Cleopatra? I seem to remember from my childhood that she was part of a TV special.

Julia: You remember correctly! Scooby-Doo! in Where’s My Mummy? takes on a very different tone for Cleopatra. Being a children’s movie, the focus shifts from the romance surrounding Cleopatra’s death to her tomb and burial. Cleopatra is similarly portrayed as a strong and determined woman, yet frightening as she casts a curse upon Egyptian treasure. Even in her character design, she is less flashy with a harder appearance and a deep voice. 

Brendan: Cleopatra’s life isn’t the focal point of this movie, but her recognizability is still utilized with the choice of making her lost tomb the driving force of the plot. Cleopatra takes on more mythological and fantastical attributes, and her resulting character is a mixture of Egyptian and Egyptomania tropes: utilizing the “power of Isis” and rising as an undead mummy to protect her “riches”.

Cuddy: Both films cover this broad, stereotypical characterization of Cleopatra and have subsequently shaped many generations’ perception of her as mysterious, beautiful, fearful, and lustful. 

Julia: Hmmm. Are there any other forms of modern media that follow this depiction? 

Brendan: Absolutely, and I bet you all will know this one. In Katy Perry’s 2014 music video for her song “Dark Horse,” she takes on a version of Cleopatra, “Katy Patra.” Katy Perry sits on a throne in a colorfully pink Egyptian set judging gifts of various suitors that she subsequently rejects and curses into other objects. At the climax of the song, she stands upon a pyramid taking on the form of an open-winged Isis. 

Julia: Oh my god I remembered watching that when I was a kid! Well, there is no doubt that Cleopatra has become such a prominent and recognizable figure in Western media and her portrayal has been constantly reprised in several forms all owing to characteristics of her beauty, mystery, or allure. However, there has been one especially polarizing debate. 

Cuddy: Yep, and it’s been a hotly contested one! In the center of her claim by Western culture, is the contention towards the color of her skin. Was she White or was she Black, or something else? Why does it matter?

Julia: Well, in the visual mediums described earlier, the two films and music video, Cleopatra is depicted by fair-skinned individuals of Caucasian descent. Even in the animated movie, Cleopatra is drawn with very fair skin and clearly white features. But how can we know for certain? Can we know for certain? 

Brendan: Like other aspects of her identity, the color of her skin is quite ambiguous. Cleopatra ruled over an African country, Egypt, but came from Macedonian Greek ancestry during the Ptolemaic reign. We know that Cleopatra’s grandmother was a concubine, and her mother was unknown. 

Cuddy: With this being such a complex topic, we wanted to ask Dr. Lorigan what she thought. 

Dr. Lorigan (28:13-28:56) Okay, so we know that Cleopatra is from a Macedonian-Greek royal family, on her father’s side. We don’t know who her mother was. So, we know at least half of her heritage is this white, European heritage. However, barring any future information we find (or something like that), we really cannot say for certain. However, when we look at her, we can say (like the people in Egypt, they weren’t really horrified by this) that she is Egyptian, and that’s how they see her. They see her as an Egyptian queen and not representative of white culture, or black culture, but taking her on the basis of who she was. 

Brendan: So, we don’t know for sure, but one thing is for certain: she was an Egyptian.

Julia: Like Dr. Lorigan was saying, Cleopatra exists at a very interesting time in history pulled by many different forces between Africa and Europe, and with her transport to the West, the narrative has been overwhelming that she was White. 

Cuddy: We’ve seen this from the very beginning of cinema. In a movie poster from the 1940s for Bernard Shaw’s Caesar and Cleopatra, Cleopatra is portrayed by a White woman, Vivien Leigh, and surrounding her are more women who have fair-skin, Caucasian features. However, the people serving Cleopatra in the image, holding green leaves, have a much darker complexion. 

Brendan: But why is it that Cleopatra has consistently been portrayed as White? Shouldn’t her being Egyptian be more marketable, given American Egyptomania?

Julia: Well, Cleopatra’s assumed whiteness seems to elevate her. Maybe it makes her seem like a better ruler or a more formidable opponent or ally in the Egyptian-Roman conflicts that characterized her life. 

Cuddy: Maybe it is the implied Whiteness that comes from recognizing and labeling her as white based on her Greek identity. The fact that she was Egyptian was projected onto a whitewashed version of her identity, which has made her so popular in Western media and culture. 

Segment 5: Conclusion (30:13)

Brendan: Well, either way, you gotta admit, Cleopatra has taken the world by storm. 

Cuddy: From the earliest depictions of her death to “Katy Patra,” the last queen of Egypt is ever evolving. These depictions spanned across periods, regions, and cultures, but aren’t presented equally enough to listeners like you. 

Julia: True, but unfortunately, most of the depictions we see are dominated by how the West views Cleopatra. The focus on her seductive features and sexual references undermine [sic] her importance as a ruler and political figure. So, it’s important to view Cleopatra through a multifaceted lens. As discussed in this podcast, there’s so much more to this empowering figure. But something we haven’t talked about is why. Why is it that her legacy is constantly manipulated? What makes her such a powerful tool, in both a political and cultural sense?

Cuddy: Well, I think that Cleopatra is so influential that her accomplishments either threaten or uphold those who choose to portray her. So, it was best for different groups to manipulate the queen in ways that favored them.

Brendan: Yeah, I think that’s definitely prevalent in the context of Rome and how they wanted to ruin her legacy by making her more dependent on others. Each Greco-Roman depiction can be traced back to the politics of their time, and they all use her story to spread a message. 

Julia: Absolutely, I feel that the idea of Cleopatra has overtaken who she really was as a person. Today, so many of the narratives we see are motivated by either colonialism, Afrocentrism, or something else entirely. Cleopatra seems to be more or less a name melded and morphed to fulfill an agenda, and that does real damage to her legacy.

Cuddy: Totally agree. That’s why we should see Cleopatra as an accomplished leader rather than as a tool to support a given movement or set of values. 

Brendan: Well, per Ancient Egyptian traditions, as her name continues to be spoken, she will continue to live on. As the living, it is our responsibility to ensure that this legacy is presented accurately, using a range of perspectives that have been suppressed up until this point. 

Cuddy: We may not be able to replicate her life entirely…

Julia: Or know the events of her death…

Brendan: Or the color of her skin…

Cuddy: But if we work to separate the idea of Cleopatra from the person Cleopatra, we can better understand Ancient Egypt as a whole. 

Julia: Well, that’s all we have for you today. Thanks for joining us for another episode of “Now and Then!” We hope that you all enjoyed this deep dive into Cleopatra and her legacy.

Cuddy: We want to give a huge thanks to our wonderful professor, Dr. Robyn Price, for aid throughout the research process; Izzy Uliasz, for helping us at the Rockefeller Library Recording Studio; Karen Bouchard, for her help at the John Hay Library Special Collections; and of course, Dr. Lorigan, for being our wonderful guest on today’s episode. 

Brendan: We would also like to thank YOU the listener for tuning in with us today. 

All: Until next time!

Outro music

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The deity Seth is intimately associated with Ancient Egypt’s sense of duality with how he opposes Osiris and Horus. But as time moves forward, when other cultures begin to take Ancient Egypt’s religion and use it as their own or as inspiration, does Seth retain these aspects?

Also featuring:

OSIRIS: Seth, why?

SETH: Oh, you know exactly why brother

ISIS: Oh, Osiris, I suppose it falls to me to revive you.

RA: Seth, you are prepared for tonight?

SETH: As always, my King.

APEP: [Hisses]

RA: Then I trust you to protect me with all your strength.

SAMANTHA LIN: Now, what was that all about?

CALEB FAVER: Yeah, what was that? Wasn’t Osiris the pharaoh or something? And Seth just killed him!

LIN: Exactly! And scattered his body parts all over too.

FAVER: And at the same time. He’s what, protecting the head honcho of the gods, Ra?

LIN: Interesting, isn’t it?

LIN: Welcome to “Now as Then” Season Two Episode One. I’m Samantha Lin.

FAVER: And I’m Caleb Faver, and today, with the help of a certain expert,

JEFF NEWMAN: Hi, my name is Jeff Newman. I am currently a fourth year PhD student in the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures. I study Egyptian archaeology.

LIN: We’re discussing the god of chaos and the desert, Seth.

LIN: So what do you know about Seth?

FAVER: Well, you know how Loki stabbed his brother in the back?

LIN: Ah, yes.

FAVER: He’s like that. But other than that, not much.

LIN: So, Seth is the god of the desert, storms, foreigners and chaos. And well, like you said, he stabbed his brother. Were you paying attention to the beginning?

FAVER: Oh, yeah. Osiris is his brother. Did he have other siblings?

LIN: He did indeed. You might have heard of them! Isis and Nephthys.

FAVER: Wait, isn’t Isis Osiris’ wife?

LIN: Yup. Seth married his sister as well.

FAVER: Really?

LIN: Yeah. And he’s Anubis’ dad.

FAVER: That seems…

LIN: On the topic of Anubis! You know how he has a jackal head?

FAVER: Yeah, and Horus has a falcon head.

LIN: You know what animal Seth has on his head?

FAVER: From the images I’ve seen it’s a mix between a dog and an aardvark?

LIN: Yeah, that’s probably as close as you’re gonna get. The animal he is from the shoulders up is called the Set animal. Kinda Sets him apart from the other gods that his animal is, well, his and doesn’t exist, right?

FAVER: Haha, but yeah, I can see how that makes him different from the others just by nature.

LIN: Right. And when the Set animal hieroglyph is written, most of its words like “suffering” and “violent storms” have an association with chaos, which happens to be what Seth is a god of. 1

FAVER: Just straight up chaos?

LIN: Just straight up chaos! which might I add is very important to ancient Egyptian culture. You see, think about the layout of their land.

FAVER: I remember learning about this actually. Among the river valley civilizations, Egypt started it up around the Nile. Their lives were led by the Nile, since when it flooded, it deposited silt that let them grow their crops. Yeah? And if you’re interested to learn more, check out our episode on the Nile.

LIN: Perfect. Now, what’s important is that you remember the other important geographical feature of Egypt. It’s smack in the middle of…

FAVER: The desert.

LIN: The desert! The important part of this is just how diametrically opposed these two things are in every way.

FAVER: The desert is full of course, rough, irritating sand that gets everywhere.

LIN: While the river valley is filled with crops.

FAVER: The desert’s also harsh and hot and hard to travel through. It’s chaotic and dangerous to be in.

LIN: Meanwhile, Egypt around the Nile is considered home where it’s safe and there’s food and water.

FAVER: The sands are bright red,

LIN: While, the silt is a glistening black.

FAVER: So earlier when you said Seth was the god of the desert, you were saying he’s basically the god of all these bad concepts.

LIN: Exactly. And guess who the god is of all these good concepts? I’ll give you a hint: He’s dead now.

FAVER: Oh.

LIN: Yes! Oh-siris. His domain is all those good things we mentioned. In addition to being associated with kingship. 2 It doesn’t end there either. It’s probably clear by now that the ancient Egyptians had a strong sense of duality. Black and red, Osiris and Seth, and Ma’at and Isfet.

FAVER: What was those last two?

LIN: Well, Ma’at is basically order, involved with things such as justice in moderation. The goddess Ma’at is the daughter of Ra, god of the sun and one of the gods responsible for creating the world. Very important.

FAVER: So isfet is disorder.

LIN: And it’s the pharaohs’ job to make sure that Ma’at overcomes Isfet. So, you know, society can function.

FAVER: And if Osiris and Horus are related to the pharaohs,

LIN: You guessed it. Also associated with disorder is our good friend Seth. It doesn’t end there either!

LIN: Egypt may have good natural defenses, what with all the sand and water, but it still ended up falling to foreign rule. And guess who’s also the god of foreigners?

FAVER: Seth. Imagine if after invading they said, “Hey, Seth seems pretty neat!” and took him as their representative.

LIN: There’s no need for that! That totally happened. 3

FAVER: Wow! So Seth was kind of the worst, just totally evil.

LIN: Incorrect!

FAVER: Oh, okay.

LIN: Were you paying attention in the beginning?

FAVER: Hmm. In that segment, Seth was protecting the king from a snake. Oh, wait, this is the part I know well actually!

LIN: Go wild.

FAVER: The creator of the gods and the world, Ra, would descend into to the underworld every night as the representation of the sun setting. Waiting for him every night was Apep or Apophis, a giant serpent and yet another embodiment of chaos, who would try to sink Ra’s boat and keep the sun from rising the next day.

FAVER: So during this time, it was the job of certain gods to keep the king safe. Namely Bastet, the Eye of Ra, and Seth. Seth has been depicted as spearing Apep in the Book of the Dead 4, a clear show just how he goes about doing his job.

LIN: Awesome! Thank you, Caleb! You see, after all this, there’s something else Seth is associated with: power. That staff you see lots of representations of him holding is called a Was-scepter, which represents power. And look at this. 5 Look familiar?

FAVER: Huh. You sent me a picture of one of the heads of a scepter. It looks like his head. And is that Seth carved into the wood?6 For the symbol of power to have his animal shape and have his face engraved in it sure explains how he’s able to fend off the evil serpent so well.

NEWMAN: With a deity like Seth, he originally sort of has a, instead of a danger aspect to his sort of cosmic flavor, that originally seems to be more dealing with power and strength. So he seems early on to be more of a god that’s associated with chaos, but not necessarily the bad form of chaos, but the chaos that exists in life naturally. And you can even see it in some of the earliest Egyptian religious texts that we have, that while Seth is very much a dangerous deity, he’s also a protective deity. And this kind of goes to a concept that you see throughout Egyptian religion, in that if you can get like a demon or some sort of very terrible, dangerous force, figure out a way to have that horrible thing, work in your favor, you can sort of harness it. Sometimes we refer to it as something being apotropaic.

So it’s finding one of these like dangerous forces and sort of harnessing it to use to help protect whatever your own initiative is. That sort of seems the way that the Egyptians thought of Seth, at least early on in Egyptian history. But then, of course, even in the Pyramid Texts, the famous Contendings of Horus and Seth, we also have references to that early on as well, too. And yes, it does seem that the Egyptians felt that Seth was oftentimes in opposition to the two gods that were most associated with kingship, Osiris and his son, Horus. But this also goes to another Egyptian concept, which is that there’s always a balance in life. But what the Egyptians sort of nuanced this idea, this balance idea is that you can never have one fully eliminate the other; it’s not good to have one be completely eliminated. What’s good is that there’s a balance of both. And that’s sort of how I sort of interpret Seth, at least early on in Egyptian history. He’s kind of that necessary evil.

FAVER: So after all, this Seth is the worst, but also the most important to the Pantheon.

LIN: In a way, yes, he defends the most important God alongside Bastet. So he isn’t just a single facet.

FAVER: Are you even allowed to exist in such two different spheres? Doesn’t Ra merge with Osiris when he enters the underworld?

LIN: Yes. And yes. You also have to remember that after he died, Osiris became the god of the underworld, another very important part of ancient Egyptian culture. Between killing Osiris and protecting Ra, Seth is very involved in the most important concepts of rebirth. You’re most well versed in Norse mythology, right?

FAVER: So it’s like that where things can be interpreted in different ways. In Norse’s case, it’s because there’s only really two books to draw material from.

LIN: Ancient Egyptian religion is like the opposite of that. Before being really consolidated, different cities had their own cults favorites. It’s not as clear cut as Greek mythology where Agamemnon bad or Achilles mad.

NEWMAN: The Egyptians were not necessarily looking for one specific answer to any of their fundamental existential questions, and in a way that I mean, you can see in many religions, Greek religion included, and that’s that there’s oftentimes inconsistencies when you look at the specifics of what they deal with. But I would say that overall Egyptian religion is very fluid. There is never simply, at least to the outside observer, there often doesn’t seem to be one correct answer to any of the big questions in life. Instead, the Egyptians prefer to layer those meanings onto different entities, onto different stories, onto different symbology. Whereas in Greek mythology, there seems to be much more of a standardized hierarchy.

LIN: Homer and his buddies were…

FAVER: Oh, yeah, they wrote everything down.

LIN: Yeah, exactly. Oh, on the topic of Homer! Seth was actually adapted into Greek mythology.

FAVER: Really? I don’t remember any Set animal headed Greek gods.

LIN: Yeah, he wasn’t lucky enough to get a humanoid body this time. You know how Seth came to be associated with invaders?

FAVER: Did they not really like him after that?

LIN: Yeah, to the point where he kinda sorta merged with the snake he used to kill every night.

NEWMAN: And this is also, for instance, when we get the most expressed form of the Contendings of Horus and Seth –  that actual story comes down to us in the form of a papyrus from the 20th Dynasty, I think, so actually rather late in the New Kingdom. And that’s where we get the fully expressed form where Seth actually murders Osiris, and almost does the same thing to Horus and sort of usurps the throne. So coincidentally, when you get that papyrus, you also get detections of the attitude that Seth isn’t necessarily the greatest deity. And that’s when we sort of see that he’s sort of turning into this more evil figure. So there is a diachronic shift in the attitude of Seth and Egyptian religion for sure.

LIN: So to the Greeks, Seth became Typhon. In Hesiod’s theogony, Typhon is the father to a bunch of Echidna’s monsters, including Cerberus and the Hydra. And is shaped like

FAVER: A giant snake? 7

LIN: You guessed it.

FAVER: So they just made him a monster and ignored the good he did for the gods.

LIN: Well, he was also the dad of typhoons.

FAVER: So he kept the storms and his chaos: his kids are the antagonists to a bunch of heroes.

LIN: Yeah, it’s not really a great look for Seth, you know. And you know how Greek mythology was very clear cut. When they adapted Egyptian gods, a lot got shaved off. They really just took a lot of the gods and put their attributes on to their own Greek Pantheon. 8

FAVER: Did Apollo get Horus?

LIN: You bet.

LIN: Anyway, guess how people are worshipping Seth in the modern day.

FAVER: People are worshipping Seth in the modern day?

LIN: Yep. But not in the way you’d think. Kemetism does exist, which is people following the ancient Egyptian religion in the modern day, but that is not what we’re here for.

FAVER: Oh.

LIN: Seth has his own religion that’s a spin off of Satanism.

FAVER: Excuse me?

LIN: Setianism started in Santa Barbara, California in 1975, separated from the Church of Satan and believe that Seth, or Set, is the one true God. And they are indeed exempt from taxes. 9

FAVER: But, but isn’t Seth from a polytheistic religion, where when somebody in power tried to make it monotheistic, they experienced post mortem backlash?10

LIN: Akhenaten did that with the creator god too. Not the trickster, controversial, Seth.

FAVER: Well, what do they focus on in Seth?

LIN: They have a religious book that Seth spoke through the founder Michael Aquino in.

FAVER: Is… is that? Does this track with-

LIN: And it focuses on Seth as a teacher who teaches them to gain immortality of consciousness.

LIN: None that really sounds like the ancient Egyptian concept of Seth. So they essentially saw this demonized figure, decided he was like the Satan they were familiar with, and molded the concept of him to fit their religion they were starting.

FAVER: Essentially, that feels disrespectful of the ancient Egyptians.

LIN: I agree. Well, to lighten the mood a little maybe let’s transition to something we can both enjoy talking about a little more.

LIN: Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure, the manga by Hirohiko Araki.

FAVER: Heck yes.

LIN: You’re the one who introduced me to this massive franchise that’s led to Araki getting his art displayed in the Louvre. This man has collaborated with Gucci!

LIN: And his currently eight part manga we’re discussing started in 1987 and continues to have its story told.

LIN: But what we want to focus on is Part Three: Stardust Crusaders.

FAVER: That’s the arc where the titular Jojo and his friends travel through Egypt to defeat DIO. And what do you know? A lot of the enemies they fight have powers based on Egyptian gods, including our good friend Seth.

LIN: Sethan, the stand introduced in chapter 205, or Episode 31 of Stardust Crusaders, materializes as a black or purple shadow respectively, and has the power to regress the age of anyone that passes over.11

FAVER: Wait. Something about that doesn’t sound right.

LIN: Oh, so you have been paying attention?

FAVER: Of course I have. Seth is associated with red and is normally in direct opposition with black. What gives?

LIN: Even if Jojo is known for its off the wall color palettes and changing them for the scene? Wouldn’t it make sense to make this stand red as a simple homage?

FAVER: After all this, I also don’t really see how his stand relates to this role in the myth either.

LIN: The only thing I could think of is his connection to Horus the Younger through fighting with Horus and their Contendings. Check out the season one episode about Horus if you’re interested about that.

FAVER: That’s, that’s a bit of a stretch.

LIN: Yeah, but it’s  all i’ve got.

FAVER: Then isn’t this in a roundabout

LIN: HA

FAVER: way, a bit of like what the Sethian guy did to Seth? Strip him of all his meaning and relevance in order to make him fit the narrative.

LIN: I think you could argue that, especially because some of the other gods referenced in Jojo’s, such as Horus or Osiris, both didn’t have their names changed, and their references to the original gods were much more clear.

FAVER: Yeah, Horus was a straight up falcon, and Osiris dealt with people’s souls, a nod to his role in the underworld.

LIN: That being said, When localized Sethan was changed to Set, and I think Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure has the excuse of being both fiction and having quote unquote, Bizarre in the name. It’s not meant to be taken seriously.

FAVER: I see where you’re coming from.

LIN: But this is still a legitimate culture being referenced here and not just fun Western album names like the other powers are named after. So Food for Thought. Is this depiction, both of Egyptian gods as the enemies and Sethan’s design and power made better because it’s fun?

FAVER: To be fair, most of the Egyptian gods stands belong to Egyptian locals.

LIN: That is a good point. Something to keep in mind.

LIN: We made it all the way to the end. So I have a question for you, Caleb, are you familiar with Orientalism?

FAVER: Vaguely? Aren’t rugs oriental?

LIN: I think they have that descriptor sometimes. But that’s not what this use of the word is. You know how the way people in the West view other nations is a bit skewed sometimes, sometimes to make them look more threatening?

FAVER: Well, yes, unfortunately, like how the intro song to Aladdin talks about cutting off your ear.

LIN: Yeah, Orientalism is the result of that. It’s the mindset that the Orient basically the middle to Far East is different and something of a spectacle, to be ogled and profited off of or feared, but not understood. Enough of this, and eventually the result is that the West views cultures of the Orient as inferior and something to be improved.

FAVER: Disgusting.

LIN: I know right? Egyptomania really led to a warped view of Egypt as a whole. And I’d argue that these uses and misuses of Seth are just another example of that. He was stripped of his original identity and just either an evil monster or something completely different depending on who was using his image.

LIN: It’s only fair to note that the ancient Egyptians had a hand in the flip to a pure evil Seth. However, the others really took what happened and ran with it.

FAVER: So you’re saying that Orientalism is still relevant and you’re using Seth as your example.

LIN: That’s indeed what I’m doing. Unless people cared to look, they never have known about the facets of Seth. Similarly, unless people care to find proper sources, the ancient Egyptian civilization is largely something mystic and far away and Amazing, while modern Egypt is just kind of geographically superimposed over it,

FAVER: Dang, I’ve learned a lot from this and I definitely don’t want to fall into that hole. The ancient Egyptians were people with a religion and to respect that is to takes steps to respecting their culture as a whole,

LIN: I couldn’t have said it better myself.

LIN: Thank you so much for joining me on this opener episode of Season Two of “Now as Then.” A huge thank you to Robyn Price for leading the seminar that produced this podcast, Deidre Whitmore for all to help with podcasting, Simon Lee, Katherine Kapsidelis, and Jet Jacobs for their insight into research, and Martin Brennan for help on copyright.

FAVER: If you want to hear more about Ancient Egypt and how it’s relevant in our modern time, check out the other episodes of “Now as Then.” Each one is about a wholly different topic, so really?

LIN: You should listen to all of them.

FAVER: You should listen to all of them!

LIN: One last time. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Seth spearing Apep

Was-Scepter of Seth’s face

Araki, Hirohiko. “‘God Sethan’ Alessi, Part 1,” Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders. Weekly Shonen Jump. 1991.

Banks, J. and Nagy, Gregory. Hesiod, Theogony. https://chs.harvard.edu/CHS/article/display/5289 . Center for Hellenic Studies, Harvard. 12 Dec. 2019. Accessed 16 Apr. 2020.

Betrò, Maria C. Hieroglyphics: the Writings of Ancient Egypt. 1st. ed. New York: Abbeville Press, 1996.

Budge, E. A. Wallis. The Gods of the Egyptians: Studies in Egyptian Mythology. Routledge, 2010.

Bunson, Margaret. Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt. Facts On File, 2012.

Ćwiek, Andrzej. “RED AND BLACK WORLD.” Studies in Ancient Art & Civilization 18 (2014). https://www.academia.edu/35318747/Studies_in_Ancient_Art_and_Civilization_vol._18.

Dorman, Peter F., and John R. Baines. “Sources and Limitations of Ancient and Modern Knowledge.” Encyclopædia Britannica, Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., 10 Oct. 2017,               
www.britannica.com/topic/ancient-Egyptian-religion/Sources-and-limitations-of-ancient-aNd-modern-knowledge.

 Fritze, R. H. Egyptomania: A History of Fascination, Obsession, and Fantasy. 2016.

Hirst, John. “Horemheb – KV 57.” Tombs of Ancient Egypt, Osirisnet, 5 May 2011, www.osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/horemheb/e_horemheb_pharaon_01.htm.

Introvigne, Massimo. Satanism: a Social History. Brill, 2016.

Te Velde, H. Seth, God of Confusion: A Study of His Role In Egyptian Mythology And Religion. Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1967.

Trigger, Bruce Graham; Kemp, Barry; O’Connor, David Bourke; Lloyd, Alan Brian. Ancient Egypt, A Social History. Cambridge; New York: Cambridge University Press. 2001.

UCL Petrie Collection Online Catalogue. “New Kingdom UC60024,” The Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology http://petriecat.museums.ucl.ac.uk/detail.aspx#7474, 2019, Accessed 1 May 2020

21st Dynasty Book of the Dead, Egyptian Museum, Cairo

“I Recall” by Blue Dot Sessions

“Storybook” by Scott Holmes

“Interception” by Kai Engel

“SnakeAttackVerbPuls” by Jamius
https://freesound.org/people/Jamius/sounds/41531/

“Nasty Knife Stab 2” by Aris621 https://freesound.org/people/Aris621/sounds/478145/

“Beheading SFX” by Ajexk https://freesound.org/people/Ajexk/sounds/271984/

With a river as widely known as the Nile, you’d think the average would know a little more about it. You’re in luck! Listen in, and I’ll tell you everything you need to know about the Nile River and its purposes over time. We will then explore how changes over time brought the Nile to where it is today; and then see how time might’ve changed the way we even think about it.

Featuring: (not pictured) Amr Shahat, PhD Candidate, Cotsen Institute of Archaeology, UCLA

[Introduction 00:00-2:59]

RUBY PROSSER: *background music* Perhaps the most famous river in the world, The Nile River has been a source of life for Egyptian civilization for thousands of years. It is the world’s longest river, spanning more than 6,800 kilometers (~4225 miles) and runs through 10 different countries. While it is so long, its drainage is a mere fraction of rivers such as the Amazon, Congo, and Danube. All of this water not draining out into the ocean flooded and irrigated the river’s banks and provided sustenance for the people who lived near. 1There were also widely known cultural beliefs about the river such as its personification as a god, explaining the Nile’s power to give life in the otherwise desert climate of Egypt. 2And for its time, the Nile was also known as an extensive trade route, and inspired plans for socio-political structures and settlements throughout Egypt.3 You wanna hear more? Let’s go for a “Journey Down the Nile”.

PROSSER: Thanks for dropping by, my name is Ruby Prosser and welcome to Season 2 Episode 2 of of Now As Then, a podcast series exploring differences and similarities in perceptions of Ancient Egypt over time. In this episode called “Journey Down the Nile”, I will be talking about many aspects of Pharaonic, Ptolemaic/Roman, and modern Egypt that had built up as well as changed Western perceptions of the Nile River. We’ll be learning some of these changed perceptions were created in part by ideas of globalization and ethnocentrism, and contribute to damaging practices of commercialization and notions of Orientalism. This is a whole lot to hear right now, and I promise I’ll be explaining all of this… but that’s for later. For our special guest, we are joined throughout the podcast with the wonderful Amr Shahat.

AMR SHAHAT: My name is Amr Shahat I am a fourth-year PhD student in Egyptian archaeology and my specialization is archaeobotany. So when I dig in archaeological sites I look for food and plant remains and I explore the history of culture and cultural interaction through the lens of plants. How do they use these plants for their food system, agriculture, medicine, clothing and for trade interactions?

PROSSER: Great! There’s so much more to hear, so stick around!

*Switch up music*

[Section 1: Ancient Egypt 3:00- 14:24]

[Subsection: Agriculture]

PROSSER: *background music* So we’ve all heard the phrase “Water is life”. And for ancient Egyptian civilizations, the Nile River was the source of all things needed to survive. The Nile River first provided irreplaceable water, and then humans learned to control it for agriculture. With years of surpluses, this aspect of Egypt was a flourishing one, but farmers had to have technology to calculate ways to get the best crop yield. *river sounds* Let’s start with the very basics according to Nezar AlSayyad, a professor and urbanist with interests in Islamic architecture and urban history. Water goes through natural processes, like precipitation, can gather in a lake, glacier, and be released by rivers and streams into the ocean. The most natural form of water ancient Egyptians learned to control was, of course, the river that we call the Nile today. We can learn about the Nile’s natural cycle in the terms of the ancient Egyptians and their agricultural calendar. The three seasons were named Akhet, Peret, and Shemu, or Inundation, Growing, and Harvest. These parts had about four months each, and were all very distinctive parts of the Nile’s agricultural “cycle”. First, Akhet or Inundation was the four month’s time in which the Nile’s water levels rose up to extensively flood the soil on the banks of the river. This left farmland well-watered and very fertile for the next growing season. *background music ends* This sudden rise in the waters, though, created devastating floods, ruining the farmland and the previous harvest of crops if not measured correctly. I’ll talk a little more about Hapy *sparkle sound*, the personification of the power behind these floods, when we talk about the Nile’s cultural significance. Further, to combat this power, ancient Egyptians created a very, very advanced irrigation system. This system allowed for many canals to reach the innermost parts of land to water the crops. Systems like shadufs, which were long poles attached to a water bucket, allowed for farmers to easily allocate the river water to these canals. The next season is called Peret, when farmers plant multiple crops in the silt, including but of course not limited to barley, onions, wheat, and lettuce. Ancient Egypt used tools such as the ox-drawn plow, hoes, and large baskets to plant after inundation. Breaking up the fertile soil after it had been inundated was important to actually make sure the seeds could be viable and sprout.4 After another four months of plowing the fields and harvesting, the final season of Shemu, or harvesting came along. A primary source shows us multiple storage records of distributions in the food surplus, suggesting ancient Egyptians were harvesting in surplus for many years.5 Because of this people were able to make and store other artifacts like textiles, also shown in the record. Ancient Egyptians celebrated this surplus and the season Shemu with a festival associated with the goddess Renenutet. 6 *background music* We know there were celebrations, but Amr, what did they celebrate?

SHAHAT: So there is a celebration of two important days. The harvest day in March, and there’s a day in January around, I think,  January 21st where after the flood is complete and when winter starts and the water is cold. They consider that time the cleanest and the purest time for the Nile water. They call it the day of Wathas, it means swimming, the Nile is safe to swim in and drink from. And they consider Christianity and Islam the host religions and it’s the other way actually, they continue these ancient beliefs around the Nile even under [the current] time period. *background music ends*

PROSSER: Wow, it’s crazy how the efficiency of their yield from the river has been celebrated for that long! The efficiency of the agricultural system also definitely proved itself through the surplus, and this suggests Egyptians also had materials to trade. According to AlSayyad, there soon became development of reed and wooden rafts which converted the Nile into a highway for trade, communication, and political integration. With further developments in technologies to farm and trade, there was successful handling of the Nile River over the first few Dynasties. Great!

[Subsection: Culture]

*high pace, switch up music*

PROSSER: Think back to when we talked about inundation, and the power behind the flood to either give life or create destruction. Those are cultural beliefs about the Nile! At this point, let’s introduce a little information about the religiosity of ancient Egyptians, or how religious the general population was. Barry Kemp, an archaeologist and Egyptologist, recognizes that many ancient Egyptians followed a “popular religion”, but were also used in New Kingdom periods as a way to possibly boost personal relationships with the deities they prayed to.7 It was more of the nobles and elites that would practice spells, rituals, and other prayers. Nonetheless, it’s important to learn about what many people believed about the Nile River in the Pharaonic time. Ancient Egyptians unified most gods with the characteristics of the central god Ra, or the King of Gods. Because of this, the Nile River god, Hapy, is depicted with many similarities to Ra and lesser known Khenum, an early god of waterfalls. Another deity associated with the Nile is Renenutet, a powerful goddess in control of nourishment, fertility, and harvest. You can probably remember that she was celebrated at Shemu, the harvest festival.8 *background music* Amr, who was Hapy and how was his religious presence effective for the ruling class?

SHAHAT: In ancient Egypt the embodiment of the Nile flood and the balances and beauty that the Nile comes with is embodied by the god Hapy. You see that kings, when they focus on agriculture, especially in the middle kingdom after they recover from civil war, they started to focus on irrigation systems and development. So we also find emphasis on god Hapy, and Amnemhat the 3rd to celebrate and presents himself as god Hapy on Earth, bringing bounty to the Nile, et cetera, he has a presentation of himself as Hapy bringing food and fish and plants to the Egyptians. This statue is in the Egyptian museum, it’s very impressive. *background music ends*

PROSSER: Very impressive indeed! Many images of Hapy represent inundation itself, which we remember was the flooding of the soil on the banks along the Nile. In Pharaonic times he is normally represented male aligned, but also androgynously being a “stout man with female breasts” giving him a duality of sorts. That duality plays out in his gender presentation and control of both fertility and drought. In Sety I tomb, there are multiple other facets that show the phenomenon of dual conception. For example, we have the North and South river valleys, and familiar double tomb inscriptions of the god having a papyrus plant in one hand and a lotus plant in the other. I know you’re thinking: Ruby, what does that stuff mean? The North, or Lower Egypt is the delta that diverges into several channels until it dumps into the ocean symbolized by papyrus. The South, or Upper Egypt is the portion upriver from the delta symbolized by lotus. The unity of the papyrus and lotus flowers showed the Nile’s connection between both Upper and Lower Egypt, again ultimately showing Hapy’s dual power. Ancient Egyptians showcase the first case of religiosity and personification of the Nile River, which is evidently their biggest claim to survival. We will soon touch on how these beliefs bleed into other periods, using aspects of these ideologies to increase economic endeavors as well as change religious beliefs. Let’s move on!

[Subsection: Sociopolitical]

*high pace, switch up music*

PROSSER: There is so much to explore concerning social organization and trade in ancient Egypt through most of the dynastic periods. What did they trade, how were they organized socially and politically? A great example to talk about is Memphis. Memphis was the first capital city of lower Egypt, and was the product of twenty different dynasties. As we discussed with Amr in the first section, the Nile River shaped the organization and content of early settlement and soon to be built villages or cities. With the harnessing of the Nile River, civilizations were able to have a surplus of food, which enabled ancient Egypt to have a state administration, division of labor, and early specialized jobs like merchants to trade. Division of labor did change throughout dynasties, but the city expanded regardless of specialty. For example, centralization and city building only expanded as the pyramid builders grew the city to accommodate their craftsmen and laborers even though they were notoriously not great city builders. On top of those jobs rested the civil servants, priests, nobles, bureaucrats, and eventually the king or pharaoh. This political organization was created for the king to conduct duties and ceremonies showing he was a divine being linked to both the godly and human worlds. This religiousness in the higher levels of society provided more money and resources to be allocated to architecture, including temples, tombs and pyramids. This was the beginning of commercialization in Egypt because soon temples served not only a religious purpose, but also as a center of economic power.

[Discussion]

PROSSER: So what can we take away from all this? We have to learn this information first to be able to analyze how it changed our perception of Egyptian society later. But we can also use this information to learn how ancient Egypt themselves learned to adapt and control efficient agricultural, religious, and political systems in their own right, without much outside influence. That is, until the influences of the Ptolemies and Rome.

*Switch up music*

[Section 2: Ptolemies/Rome 14:25- 26:34]

PROSSER: Alright, let’s talk about the Greco-Roman period, spanning about 900 years in Egypt. Greek influenced and inhabited Egypt first for about 300 years, and Roman control lasted another 600 years or so after that, making Greco-Roman control span from about 330BC to 630CE. Wow! Remember, we are thinking about how new influences such as the Greeks and Romans on the use of symbols to commercialize Ancient Egypt. Ptolemy II is credited with many achievements and interests such as the Library of Alexandria, foreign policy and agricultural expansion. He is a large reason why ancient Egyptian or Pharaonic culture bled into his time period so much, depicting him as a religious elite as well as an administrative leader. As I take you through these 300 years or so, think about how ancient Egyptian values were changed and depicted, and how that changed how you might see Egypt today!

[Subsection: Agriculture]

*flute music*

PROSSER: Before the Greeks arrived around 330 BCE, the Egyptians were largely left to themselves to manage the Nile. Then Greeks came into Egypt and centralized the government and therefore agricultural systems to feed their empire. The biggest difference was, Egypt became part of Greece, and the leaders became more concerned with having stricter control over production so they were able to use both Egypt’s fertile soil and large labor force. The Fayyum, an oasis region of Egypt known for its very lush agricultural land, was actually most prominent in the Middle Kingdom, or 1975 BC to 1640 BC, but was settled in and terraformed by the Greeks. As time moved on, ancient Egyptian irrigation systems inspired Greco-Roman canals and hydraulics.9 *background music* The calendar and seasons were also changed to a dual calendar system, including Julian months and more patterns to follow because now they were solely using this system to create revenue for their empires.10This is important because the agricultural systems were now being used to create coinage along with a stabilized economic production system, ultimately giving leaders more economic and therefore political power. Amr, can you jump in here and give us some crops that emerged in this period? How about from other places or times?

SHAHAT: So this is very important, we started out with mainly the wheat and barley and linen. Here I found that also while the plants were still in use, especially palm. You get two kinds of fruit from them, dates and another fruit called DOUM and this palm tree is only native to the South of Egypt. And it is marked by having two heads, like you know the regular date palm has one head on top. No, this one has a trunk and then the trunk becomes two trunks and then two heads of the palm. I’ve never seen this in the North or anywhere not near the Nile River. It’s also native to Sudan. It’s these wild plants that continued because they had multiple uses like spices to juices to even medicinal applications.

PROSSER: Ok, so moving on to more recent periods such as the Ptolemaic period, what kind of crops do we see being introduced along with these ones that are staying?

SHAHAT: Yes we have the introduction of pomegranate coming from the East Mediterranean. I found the introduction of juniper berries, it was my first time to discover it and this species specifically. During quarantine for the coronavirus I made my own hand sanitizer out of it. I just added percentage of alcohol in it, crushed it and made it a sanitizer. *laughs*

PROSSER: That’s so cool! That’s how you do it guys. *background music ends* Okay, so what about the agricultural systems themselves? Colin Adams, a professor of mathematics with an interest in Roman-Egypt transportation, also says there were lots of exploitations and failures during this time. Workers were subjected to years of compulsory labor, there was redistribution of wealth to the wealthy, and then there ended up being future hindrances in agricultural production due to poor management. Because of this “negligence” to handle irrigation, many of these Roman canals that came in the latter part of the rule of Greco-Romans failed in production and disrepair.10 During this time, there were additional efforts to monopolize industries out of Egypt for additional revenue. The desperation to exploit the people, land and symbols of ancient Egypt was just the start of appropriation in Egypt. Above all, this is evidence that the settlers of Greco-Roman Fayyum believed economy and agricultural processes were more of a major concern of the state, suggesting the purpose and therefore perception of the Nile River had changed into more of a functional tool. We will later talk about this tool and how it concerns socio-political movements as well. Things were quick to change throughout this period, but Egyptologists are quick to study these fluctuations and apply them to this growing notion of commercialization.11,12

[Subsection: Culture]

*flute music*

PROSSER: Cultural appropriation is essentially the adoption of culture, usually a more dominant culture taking from the lesser one to benefit off of it. Recall from about thirty seconds ago when I told you about the people, land, and symbols that were being appropriated for economic use? This is exactly cultural appropriation, *boo noises*  and it definitely goes hand-in-hand with commercialization. This is the management and selling of a product for financial gain. As you recall, traditional ancient Egyptian images of Hapy are predominantly drawn as a male character, but as we move further into the Greco-Roman period, we see more of his sexual and therefore cultural duality like we saw in the Tomb at Sety.In Greek-style pictures, Hapy is seen associated with a female, who first appeared on Alexandrian coinage. The introduction of the coin and this image widely normalized female-aligned gods into Greco-Roman period cultural belief. This goddess was called Euthenia, representing abundance and wealth. This fit with Greco-Roman attitudes of making revenue from agriculture as well as just having cultural power over the native Egyptians. Amr, can you tell us a bit about what stayed the same as well as some changes when it came to the Nile’s use and beliefs around it in this period?

SHAHAT: *background music* It expanded and exploited on making more irrigation systems, connected more channels and canals, and focused on water systems in the oasis also. Especially Fayoum, where the Nile branches out naturally and pours into not the Mediterrarnean a lake, called Lake Fayoum. East LA has this project working on this project working on the Greco Roman history of agriculture and agricultural exploitation in Fayoum.

PROSSER: Thanks Amr, great input. And we can actually see this with the Harris Magical Papyrus also shows evidence of Egyptian-inspired stories rewritten with Greek gods’ names in the same context.2 Furthermore, Egyptian religious beliefs that rivers had their own demons also inspired Greco-Roman nymphs, or water spirits of the Nile River. It is generally known that those two ideologies, being Ptolemaic and Egyptian were pretty syncretised at the time. So what? Now we know the influences of monotheistic religions show both change in actual belief and a change that encouraged economic exploitation of ancient religious beliefs over time. We must stop perceiving Egyptian culture through a lens of ethnocentrism and economic profit. Well Ruby, what is ethnocentrism? Ethnocentrism is the idea that people see other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards of their own culture. This is seen in Greek and Roman Egypt possibly because there was an increase in aestheticism or a beauty contest, and even a sense of notoriety, like I’m better than you because I use the image of Hapy on my empire’s coins.

[Subsection: Sociopolitical]

*flute music*

PROSSER: The introduction of early Ptolemaic administrative districts called sepat, led to the operation of a government that oversaw nomes, which were basically smaller versions of the government. This caused some internal conflict, eventually leading to decentralization of power in this period of Egypt. Nonetheless, these cities were a huge center for trade and communication between other cities and eventually empires. The river flow soon became the basis of taxation and government income in ancient Egypt and its settlements. This growth continued on through the Greco-Roman period, when more political organization grew the economy and stabilized settlement patterns. Unfortunately there were uprisings under Ptolemaic rule, and according to many scholars, they were caused by many factors including ethnicity, nationalism, poor economy, and Nile floods. (Damn you Hapy!) As you might remember, one of Ptolemy II’s goals was to intensify crop production and work on the water system, transforming Fayoum into a fertile plain. However, with revolts and resentful attitudes, indigenous Egyptians looked at the Greeks as invaders, and it took decades for Egyptians to accept this new power structure. An artificial Macedonia was created, and introduced the system of nomarchies just as it had in Ptolemaic times. Both private and public landholds earned higher incomes, but the land was still residentially divided between Egyptian and Greeks. Trade under Roman rule provided a short but sweet production of luxury goods, but the government continued taxation and privatization of land. Eventually, the Roman Fayuum faded away. So what’s the big idea with this? There is obviously a power struggle here between a dominant and subordinate culture, and as we discussed previously, this struggle ends in appropriation for the benefit of the larger culture. Now that empires see the benefits of commercializing, Egypt starts to be perceived in an Orientalist lens, being described as interesting or mystic, therefore giving false worth to the products. Now that’s business. See  it all now?

[Discussion]

PROSSER: Okay, so there was a LOT of change through the entire Greco-Roman period, and I have noticed many ideologies that completely change my personal idea of how I see Egypt already. But we conquered some big points, and I want to chill for a second before we dive into modern Egyptian systems that evolved through the mechanisms of technology, ethnocentrism, and foreign affairs.

[Section 3: Modern 26:35- 36:32]

[Subsection: Agriculture] *techno music*

PROSSER: So you wanna know how Egypt ends up? Ok calm down. Starting as early as 1869, tours of Egypt and the “Holy Land” were given on steamboats up and down the river. John Cook, the man who gave these tours had previously scouted the transatlantic market before. This travel through the river created revenue and encouraged travel, trade, and business to places they’d never been. Oh sorry. Cook called it the “Holy Land”? *mysterious oRiEnTaL music* Ah yes. Orientalism. This is important to acknowledge. You recall the definition of Orientalism, and the harmful Eastern stereotypes it perpetuates. This is a prime example of recognizing culture that is different and commercializing it for revenue; we can see in Cook’s case, it was his boat. Edward Said was really onto something in 1978. Finally, as we move into more recent times, there are a few dams. The High Aswan Dam is located in Aswan, Egypt and was built across the Nile River between 1960 and 1970, just before Said wrote “Orientalism”. It was mainly built to control flooding and early on in the plans and pre-builds for the dam, engineers found a way the dam could produce power as well.13 This water control and hydroelectric power is used to help increase the productivity and agricultural production of modern Egypt. Of course, there is political worry about the ecological effects of the dam. Amr, please tell us about your own research on this subject! *background music*

SHAHAT: Modern crops dating to after the High Dam time period, I found a huge drop in the fertility of the soil and this a striking, first hand finding to the anthropogenic impact of the dams on changing the ecology, the water system, and the fertility of the soil along the nile river countries. Now there are political committees saying they want to evaluate the damage of the dam. They argue they need a scientific committee to debate on environmental impacts. But there is no evidence the dam has ecological damage.

PROSSER: This is very interesting and also very important because the Aswan Dam is the most advanced technology for the use of agriculture along the Egyptian Nile River today. Comparing now to way back then in Pharaonic, this is quite obviously a huge change from the wooden machines or outdated agricultural calendars because irrigation is now completely regulated and controlled. *background music ends* The Nile has always been known as a place of life, but now we are able to see an increase in the means of productivity and therefore revenue, like what we see with surplus crops and the steamboat rides. All that leads up to what we know now which is a highly efficient renewable power source AND the agricultural benefit of a dam, being a very well calculated irrigation and controlled crop harvest. Dam(n)!

[Subsection: Culture]

PROSSER: Well let’s move back a little. Egypt moved into a postcolonial era in the mid-twentieth century with help of Nasser, the Suez Canal was freed from Western rule and the British were finally pushed out of Egypt. This was the start of the Egyptian revolution, and cultural and nationalistic ideologies started to flood Egypt. A new Egypt was on the rise, liberated from Western Egypt to look for a more self determining and nationalistic view to define what it meant to be a powerful pan-Arab state. Nasser, the leader of Egypt during the building of the Aswan Dam, wanted to move fast and engage in modernization the same way empires did, not so much thinking about the ramifications of quick cultural change towards Western ideals. This was soon taken over by a supremacist-like ideology that had blatant disregard for people’s separation from the Nile River and the water that flooded Nubian and Egyptian “temples, churches, mosques, art,” and homes.14Affecting many Nubian communities, there was noticeably less traditional family structure and the language was dying. There was a growing poverty rate which prompted the loss of so much ancient art and literature with no regard due to the Aswan Dam’s creation. Because of this destruction, the Egyptian government had sadly self-imposed damage to their own culture as well as destroyed many parts of Nubian culture just to control water and create power. Either way someone will argue the dam helped or didn’t, but there is an inexplicable truth when we cross the line into foreign relations.

[Subsection: Sociopolitical]

*techno music*

PROSSER: Before we get very modern, let’s talk about Mohamed Ali and cotton with Amr.

SHAHAT: Mohamed Ali is native to Albania, and then came right after the political vacuum when the French colonialism left Egypt and he became the ruler of Egypt under the Turkish empire and then he announced his independence from Turkish empire and made Egypt his own center of an empire. He made a lot of changes in the agricultural system in Egypt. And what never got published or studied is that Mohamed Ali introduced cotton and some colonial crops even from the Americas like tobacco like the British got from Americas to Europe. He introduced them to Egypt before British colonialism even came to Egypt. He would help British colonialism during the invasion of the New World with troops from Egypt. *background music* The cotton as a cash crop dropped under a modern capitalism system but at the same time we still have this tobacco industry in Egypt. The original name was the Eastern Company, that’s what the British called it but  under nationalism, we call it Cleopatra. *laughs* It’s still continued. This is how we internalized colonialism under modern times and we don’t remember this is from colonial history. *background music ends*

PROSSER: Exactly, moving forward into the modern period, the Council on Foreign Relations wrote the “Nile Waters Agreement”, looking to promote understanding of international relations and foreign policy concerning the Nile’s water usage and allocation to countries. The proposition and conversations of splitting water took place between the broad years of 1896 with the reconquering of Sudan by Egypt and Great Britain (jointly) and 1929 with the negotiation that Egypt remains the main user and “owner” of the Nile.15 Egypts recognition as a sovereign state and their push towards freedom as we discussed earlier, which pushed ideals of Egyptian nationalism. The negotiation of Aswan Dam began when the Low Dam, built in 1902, was overthrown. Egyptians at first weren’t interested, but eventually wanted the water to be stored in Egypt for political reasons. The United States and the USSR both wanted to help develop the dam, but it started to get complicated during the Cold War and growing “intra-Arab tensions”.16At this point, it was Egypt’s turn to engage in an alliance that was powerful and could help them become the sovereign state they fought for. As you recall Nasser claimed to lead Arab in its newfound nationalism, but realized he couldn’t unless he grew his military. Eventually with the help of the US, Britain, and USSR, $70 million dollars and arms were exchanged for Egyptian grain and cotton. However, as both deals were taken, the US and Britain withdrew their funds, and the Soviets gave them even more money to build the Aswan Dam. Both the Soviets and Egyptians provided engineers to work on the plans for the dam, threatening to submerge several historical sites, but the Soviets helped with a rescue mission as well. Even today, there is an Arab-Soviet Friendship memorial commemorating the Aswan Dam build completion in remembrance. These foreign relations were exactly what Egypt needed to be freed, and we see that change stands out in bold when you reverse back into history. In order to establish a strength in the world, it doesn’t necessarily have to be dominant, a country just felt the need to prove themselves after their liberation. While many people might not have even known this, it is crucial to know this information to talk about why and how we see Egypt or any other Eastern country a certain way.

*Switch up music*

[Conclusion 36:33- 38:16- End]

PROSSER: So what did we learn today? Let’s look back.

We knocked out ancient Egypt *punch noise*, we talked about their irrigation systems *punch noise*, Hapy *punch noise*, and civilization building *punch noise*. Okay how about Greco Roman times? We have more irrigation advancements and economic growth. Do you remember there were highly organized miniature government districts? *punch noise x3* Hold on, unfortunately these times heavily influenced how Westerners see in an Orientalist perspective. Ouch. In the modern times, there are even more commercialized and globalized forms of revenue along the Nile with transportation, business, and trade. *punch noise* Destructions of cultural material belonging to both Egypt and Nubia as well as the introduction to new nationalist ideologies prove Egyptian liberation. *punch noise x2* Last but not even close to least, we recognized foreign relations with the Soviet Union tremendously helped Egypt in becoming a globally recognized sovereign nation as well as helping with the building of the modern irrigation and power system, the Aswan Dam. *punch noise x5* woohoo!

Why did we learn this? We (Westerners) are blinded by the glorification and mysticism of ancient Egypt. We are fed stories like “Arabian Nights” and Aladdin forgetting that we are only being exposed to stereotypes and that we will rarely forget them even if we are conscious enough. To see both sides of a historically rich place, you must study many aspects over many time periods to see what has changed and how it can be improved upon or kept up. *background music* Well, that is all for today folks. Wow. Make sure to watch all the other episodes by Daniel, Gaby, Isabel, Sam and Sophia. Very special thanks to Robyn Price, our wonderful and insanely smart graduate instructor for this seminar. Also thank you to Deidre Whitmore for tips on recording podcasts, Martin Brennan for teaching about copyright, and Simon Lee, Jet Jacobs, and Katherine Kapsidelis for giving us research resources. This was Ruby, and thank you for listening to “The Journey of the Nile”. *background music ends*

Adams, Colin. “Stimuli for Irrigation, Agriculture, and Quarrying.” A Companion to Greco‐Roman and Late Antique Egypt (2019): 233-250. Accessed 14 Apr. 2020.

AlSayyad, Nezar. “A Nile Oasis in the Sahara: Fayoum of the Ptolemies.” Nile: Urban Histories on the Banks of a River, Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh, 2019, pp. 125–138. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/10.3366/j.ctvrxk18d.15. Accessed 1 May 2020.

AlSayyad, Nezar. “The Birth of the Nile: Water Carves a Path through Rugged Land.” Nile:

Urban Histories on the Banks of a River, Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh, 2019, pp. 29–46. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/10.3366/j.ctvrxk18d.9. Accessed 14 Apr. 2020.

AlSayyad, Nezar.“The Nile of Lower Egypt: Memphis, the First Capital City.” Nile: Urban Histories on the Banks of a River, Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh, 2019, pp. 47–60. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/10.3366/j.ctvrxk18d.10. Accessed 14 Apr. 2020.

Collins, Robert O. (2000). “In Search of the Nile Waters, 1900–2000”. The Nile: Histories, Cultures, Myths. Edited by Haggai Erlich and Israel Gershoni. Lynne Rienner. pp. 181–256.

Crabitès, Pierre. “The Nile Waters Agreement.” Foreign Affairs, vol. 8, no. 1, 1929, pp. 145–149. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/20028752. Accessed 14 Apr. 2020.

Cross, F. M. 2003 Leaves from an Epigrapher’s Notebook: Collected Papers in Hebrew and West Semitic Palaeography and Epigraphy. Harvard Semitic Studies 51. Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns.

El – Sawi, Ahmed. “THE NILE – GOD. AN UNUSUAL REPRESENTATION IN THE TEMPLE OF SETY I AT ABYDOS.” Egitto e Vicino Oriente, vol. 6, 1983, pp. 7–13. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/24232650. Accessed 1 May 2020.

Kákosy, László. “The Nile, Euthenia, and the Nymphs.” The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 68, 1982, pp. 290–298. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3821647. Accessed 1 May 2020.

Kemp, Barry J. “How religious were the ancient Egyptians?.” Cambridge Archaeological Journal 5.1 (1995): 25-54.

Manning, Joseph Gilbert. The last pharaohs: Egypt under the Ptolemies, 305-30 BC. Princeton University Press, 2012.

Moor, Antoine de, Cäcilia Fluck, and Petra Linscheid (eds) 2017. Excavating, analysing, reconstructing textiles of the 1st millennium AD from Egypt and neighbouring countries: proceedings of the 9th conference of the research group “Textiles from the Nile Valley”, Antwerp, 27-29 November 2015. Tielt: Lannoo.

Parker, Richard. The Calendars of Ancient Egypt. Studies in Ancient Oriental Civilization 26.

Chicago, 1950, University of Chicago Press. Accessed 17 May 2020.

Rahmstorf, Lorenz and Edward Stratford (eds) 2019. Weights and marketplaces from the Bronze Age to the Early Modern period: proceedings of two workshops funded by the European Research Council (ERC). Weight & Value 1. Kiel; Hamburg: Wachholtz; Murmann. Reid, Donald Malcolm. Whose Pharaohs?: Archaeology, Museums, and Egyptian National Identity from

Napoleon to World War I. Univ of California Press, 2003.

Rossetti, Ilaria. “ResHapyng the urban space: Bakchias in Ptolemaic and Roman times.” Archeologia e Calcolatori 28.2 (2017): 291-300.

Shaw, Ian, ed. The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press, 2003.

Shenoda, Matthew. “Damming the Nile: A Poet’s Ecology.” Prairie Schooner, vol. 90, no. 3, 2016, pp. 40–50. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/44985084. Accessed 1 May 2020.

Thomas, Harold A., and Roger Revelle. “On the Efficient Use of High Aswan Dam for Hydropower and Irrigation.” Management Science, vol. 12, no. 8, 1966, pp. B296–B311. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/2628098. Accessed 16 Apr. 2020.

“Valley Sunset”, “Forest Treasure”, “Break Away”, MixKit, 2020. https://mixkit.co/.

Watterson, Barbara. The Egyptians. Wiley-Blackwell, 1998. https://www.purple-planet.com/newest-tracks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3rZPuyydKg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HDDjHEKfn0

Ancient festivals/religion

11:36- 12:48

Hapy

12:52- 13:53

You’ve probably heard of the famous King Tut. Be it museum exhibits or Tut-themed paraphernalia, it seems like the whole world is obsessed with this boy king. But why does he so enamor us today, and how have our depictions of him created and perpetrated an Orientalist narrative that has had negative consequences in both the past and the present? Listen in to find out!

Section 1: Introductions (0:00)

ISABEL DAWSON: When you think about Ancient Egypt, who or what comes to mind? Is it the pyramids at Giza? Is it the Nile river? Is it the gods, like Anubis or Ra?

REBECCA DAWSON: If you’re like us, you’ll think of the famous King Tut. You might even picture his golden mask, perhaps one of the most well-known artifacts to ever come out of Ancient Egypt.

ISABEL: But have you ever wondered who Tut really was? How someone who lived and died thousands of years ago continues to influence our world today? 

ROWAN DAWSON: And does that mask even belong to him? Well, more on that later.

ISABEL: I’m Isabel Dawson-

ROWAN: -I’m Rowan Dawson-

REBECCA: -and I’m Rebecca Dawson. We’re recording this today in the closet of our home. We’re so excited to be talking about King Tutankhamun today, and we hope you listeners are just as excited to hear about him too.

ISABEL: This is episode 3 of season 2 of Now as Then, an ongoing podcast series about the perception of Ancient Egypt throughout time. Our episode, “Tutmania,” intends to delve deeper than the superficial knowledge most people have of the famous boy king today. 

ROWAN: First, we’ll go back to Ancient Egypt in the 18th dynasty to talk about Tut’s reign itself and the political and religious mess he found himself with. His family, and their policies, became pretty important here. We’ll also discuss his immediate legacy…or should I say, lack of it.

REBECCA: Then we’ll jump to the 20th century, starting with Howard Carter’s excavation of his tomb and the Tutmania that swept through Europe to the impacts on the field of Egyptology that these findings held.

ISABEL: Last, and certainly not least, we’ll discuss how we, in the modern day, perceive King Tut. From the souvenirs and movies he’s inspired, to his status as the icon for Ancient Egypt in pop culture…and to how our Western depictions of him ultimately contribute to the harmful idea of Orientalism…there’s a lot to say, and we’ll get to all that. But first, we need to go to the past…

Section 2: King Tut’s Reign (2:26)

ROWAN: So, King Tut must’ve been a pretty good ruler, right? He had that tomb full of treasure, and I’d say he’s the most famous pharaoh now.

REBECCA: Yeah, I saw that movie, uh, The Curse of King Tut’s Tomb? Tut saves all of Egypt. He’s the good guy, the hero. 1

ROWAN: He also fires lasers and has mechanical golden wings—I wouldn’t count on Hollywood for accuracy…but anyways, he must’ve been pretty influential for his time, right?2

ISABEL: Well, not quite. To understand King Tut’s reign, we have to examine Akhenaten, the pharaoh believed to be Tut’s father. You see, Egypt had this long history of polytheism, and they worshipped a large pantheon of gods, including Amun. Akhenaten, however, changed all this. He moved from the traditional capital Thebes to a new one he created in present-day Amarna which was called Akhetaten, or “the Horizon of Aten.” Instead of worshipping Amun and the gods Egypt had for centuries, he uprooted religious tradition to worship a single god, the Sun Disc Aten. Akhenaten wanted to remove funding from the temples of Amun and to effectively erase the deity from history.3 Now, you can understand this wasn’t a very popular idea. Causing religious upheaval isn’t really the best way to gain the favor of those around you. But let’s get back to King Tut. His reign was spent reversing Akhenaten’s policies. He reestablished the worship of Amun, which can also be seen reflected in his name: originally Tutankhaten, he changed it to Tut-ankh-AMUN, which roughly translates to “all life is in the hands of Amun.” He left Amarna and worked to restore the religious traditions Egypt had been following for centuries.4

ROWAN: So why isn’t he the hero, then?

REBECCA: Well, despite doing all of this, his name was tarnished because of its association to his father. We know this because of artifacts like the Abydos King List, which was found in the temple of Ramses II, who reigned in the 19th dynasty. See, these king lists weren’t really used to give an accurate, chronological list of all the pharaohs that previously reigned. Instead, they listed the names of kings seen as legitimate—kings the pharaohs of the 19th dynasty, in this case, approved of. In the Abydos King List, the name of Tutankhamun is missing. Actually, the whole Amarna period is missing.5 This tells us a lot about how the rulers who came after him wanted him to be remembered. They didn’t want anything associated with the Amarna period and its religious upheaval to be acknowledged. His legacy was all but erased after he died.

ISABEL: Speaking of which, how did he die?

ROWAN: There’s been tons of theories over the years. It could’ve been a number of things that ultimately brought about his early death. No one knows for sure, but it was probably a mixture of a malaria infection and poor health. He had a clubbed foot and probably had to walk with a cane—you can actually find a lot of those in his tomb. There’s also evidence of a leg fracture and infection. Other theories suggest diseased bones or other accidents. A lot of his health problems probably stemmed from the fact that he was a product of incest. His only two daughters were also inbred and were stillborn. Their mummies were found in his tomb, too.6

REBECCA: Oh, how sad.

ROWAN: His tomb itself seems to suggest it was prepared quickly—I mean, no one expects a 19 year old to die. For one, it’s much smaller than any other king’s—it was probably meant for an official, but was just repurposed for his use. There’s even brown marks where mold must’ve been on the paintings on the tomb walls. That means that the paint wasn’t even dry yet before the tomb was sealed .7 His life was truly too short.

ISABEL: The more I learn about King Tut, the sadder I get. His reign was cut short with an early death at the age of 19, and despite doing all he could to restore Egypt’s religious traditions, his name was tarnished. His story is really very tragic.

REBECCA: Yeah, he wasn’t seen as a hero like in the movies, at least in his time. But all those details don’t make for a sellable narrative, I guess. Anyways, as I mentioned before, Tutankhamun was basically unknown to the world for centuries after his death. That is, until, the year 1922.

Section 3: Tomb Discovery (6:43)

ISABEL: “Friday, October 27, 1922: Left Cairo for Luxor.” 

“Wednesday, November 1: Commenced operations in the Valley of the Kings…”

“Saturday, November 4: At about 10am I discovered beneath almost the first hut attacked the first traces of the entrance of the tomb Tutankhamen…” 

“Sunday, November 5: Here before us was sufficient evidence to show that it really was an entrance to a tomb, and by the seals, to all outward appearances that it was intact…I was much puzzled by the smallness of the opening in comparison with those of other royal tombs in the valley. Its design was certainly of the 18th Dynasty. Could it be the tomb of a noble, buried there by royal consent? Or was it a royal cache?” 

“Sunday, November 26: Feverishly we cleared away the remaining last scraps of rubbish on the floor of the passage before the doorway, until we had only the clean sealed doorway before us…It was sometime before one could see, the hot air escaping caused the candle to flicker, but as soon as one’s eyes became accustomed to the glimmer of light the interior of the chamber gradually loomed before one, with its strange and wonderful medley of extraordinary and beautiful objects heaped upon one another. There was naturally short suspense for those present who could not see, when Lord Carnarvon said to me `Can you see anything’. I replied to him `Yes, it’s wonderful.’”8

You just heard excerpts from the diary of Howard Carter, the man credited with discovering King Tut’s tomb. 

REBECCA: So what “wonderful” things did Carter find?

ROWAN: Plenty of things, and practically everything intact which was definitely rare as many tombs were plundered. One of the reasons Tut’s tomb was so special was because it had only been robbed twice, probably close to his funeral, and almost everything was left behind. This gave us an insight into what a more undisturbed tomb would have looked like. But back to the “treasure:” There were chests, huge alabaster vases holding fragrant oils, animal-shaped couches and stools, jewelry, golden fans, shrines…the list goes on.9 The tomb was truly packed with stuff, as can be seen from the excavation photos. Artifacts were piled on top of each other, and there wasn’t much room to work.10

REBECCA: What was the significance of all these items? What do they tell us about what ancient Egyptians thought about their kings and the afterlife? 

ISABEL: They tell us a lot! Inscriptions on the chest Rowan mentioned earlier say Tut will be blessed with all the benefits one can have when they enter the afterlife, like wine and incense.11 The paintings on the walls of the Burial Chamber are also really important artifacts and generally depict the acceptance of the pharaoh into the afterlife. The North Wall shows the Opening of the Mouth ceremony, where Tut is depicted as Osiris and his successor Ay claims legitimacy to inherit the throne. Another scene shows Nut welcoming the deceased king into eternal life. The South Wall depicts the gods Hathor, Anubis and Isis, also holding symbols of welcome.12 As you can see, these paintings really emphasize the idea of the afterlife as eternal life. Though Tut’s time on earth may have come to an early end, he would still live forever. Even though he was associated with such a controversial period, King Tut was still given a proper burial.

REBECCA: Wow, this all must’ve been a really amazing discovery at the time. I’m guessing news got out fast, huh?

ISABEL: That it did. People came from far and wide to get a peek at Tut’s tomb. Photographers would camp out just to snap shots of the artifacts being taken out.13 And this fascination wasn’t just limited to Egypt. By now, the Western world was already obsessed with Ancient Egypt, and the discovery of Tut’s tomb only furthered this. Actually, there’s a lot of interesting advertisements from the early 20th century and even before then, all of them Egypt-themed. You’ve got books like The Kiss of Pharaoh: The Love Story of Tut-Anch-Amen that definitely takes some artistic license, but people loved them because it was riding on this “Tutmania” idea.14 There’s even companies using imagery of Tut and Egypt-related things to advertise their products. You’ve got things like “King Tut cologne” and “Touth-Ankh-Amon Pharaoh Scent.”15

REBECCA: Hm, I don’t know about you, but I don’t really want to be smelling like a three thousand year old mummy.

ISABEL: Me neither, but it’s for the hype, you know? Anyways, people even wrote songs about him, though the lyrics were pretty inaccurate. This was because this stuff was even happening before the tomb and his body were completely excavated and documented—people didn’t know the facts, but they didn’t need those to let their fantasies and misconceptions about Ancient Egypt run wild.

ROWAN: That’s how you got the early misconception of Tut being an old man. Songs like “Old King Tut was a Wise Old Nut” and drawings always depicting him that way, before they realized the body they were looking at was that of a young adult’s.16

ISABEL: Even the idea of a curse associated with King Tut’s tomb was spread. That’s because some of the people who were involved with the excavation, like Lord Carnarvon, died.17 Even though it was of natural causes, people popularized the idea of a curse. Of course, this was totally untrue, but if you just look at the media today, it’s saturated with the idea of a “mummy’s curse.” 

ROWAN: I guess they thought it was more interesting to die of a “curse” than an infected mosquito bite.

REBECCA: Maybe so. So we know there definitely was a huge interest in Tut in the early 20th century, and we can extend that to all of Ancient Egypt in general. But why? Why were people so obsessed with Tut? What made him so special?

ISABEL: For that, let’s ask our special guest speaker, Maryan Ragheb! Hello Maryan, it’s so nice to have you speaking with us today. Could you please introduce yourself to our listeners?

MARYAN RAGHEB: So, I’m Maryan Ragheb. I’m an Egyptian Egyptologist/archaeologist. I’m studying archeology at the Cotsen Institute at UCLA, and I’m on my second year now, so I’m supposed to advance to candidacy by the end of this year, so within a month. I, my main focus is Ancient Egyptian archaeology and my topic is related to craft production of body adornments at the time of state formation.

ISABEL: The field of Egyptology was already well known in the Western world even before the excavation of King Tut’s tomb. What made King Tut different from other pharaohs and tomb excavations that caused the people of the early 20th century to be so obsessed with him? Why is there a “Tutmania” but no mania for other findings?

RAGHEB: So the most obvious answer is because Tut’s tomb is the only royal tomb that was mostly intact—not entirely intact—and, so, it’s something that hasn’t been heard of before at the time. Later on they found other royal tombs that have also been intact, but they’re not—they don’t come from this golden era of Tutankhamun and Hatshepsut and that stuff. So that’s an obvious answer, but also I think Carter and Lord Carnarvon did a very good job at publicizing the discovery for so many reasons: to get more like, media attention, and therefore heightening the importance of their discovery, making—having some sort of leverage over the Egyptian government at the time, maybe to advocate their rights, which is very an imperialist thought, but like their right to get the, the, the objects that were found in the tomb. So there were so many reasons why they were so keen on having a lot of important public figures and a lot of press going as they were preparing the tomb and stuff. And that definitely like, heightened things up, and in an unexpected turn of events, because Lord Carnarvon sold the rights to publish about the tomb discovery to the London Times, so other press started publicizing about rumors of the mummy curse, or the Tut curse. So it’s almost like it’s all related. Of course there were, there was no curse or anything.

ISABEL: We were talking about Western depictions of Ancient Egypt in the early 1900s, and the idea of a “mummy curse” came up. What do you think are problems with the idea of a curse associated with Egyptian tombs? How does this paint the Ancient Egyptians to the world in mass media?

RAGHEB: I mean it was definitely a very good subject for movies, and, don’t get me wrong, I love the movies. I think it just heightened the people’s interest in Ancient Egypt, this sort of mysterious culture and mysterious magic and stuff. And for some odd reason, they—even though there is this mummy curse, people always want to see the mummies in the Egyptian Museum for example or in any museum, having a mummy on display is something that is, like a masterpiece for a lot of people.

REBECCA: As Tut gained popularity in the West, so did inaccurate depictions of Ancient Egypt. Whether it was companies using his name to make their products more “mystical,” or books and illustrations depicting him surrounded by women, one thing was for sure: the Western image of who Tut was thought to be—romantic and exotic—was being spread and would continue to influence how people thought of him and Ancient Egypt. 

ROWAN: “Old King Tut’s” popularity doesn’t die out yet. Let’s go to the present to see what’s become of him.

Section 4: Tut in the Modern Day (16:50)

ISABEL: You stare into a face of gleaming gold. Two black eyes stare back.18 The expression seems indifferent, or is it thoughtful? Whatever it is, the mask of Tutankhamun is timeless: created by the Ancient Egyptians centuries ago, and now admired by millions all over the world, centuries later. Currently, the mask is housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo, but it and other artifacts from Tut’s tomb have traveled all over the world since their discovery in the early 1900s. 

REBECCA: In 1977, an exhibition called “The Treasures of Tutankhamun” toured the US. This sparked newfound interest in Egyptology, bringing a somewhat exclusive field into the public eye. Many flocked to see the shiny gold artifacts, leading a wave of “Tutmania”. And of course, good ol’ capitalism wasn’t far behind—plenty of Tut themed paraphernalia was created: from T-shirts to toys to posters, there was everything.19

ROWAN: Of course, this commodification of Tut didn’t go un-criticized. 

In 1978, Steve Martin performed his song “King Tut” on Saturday Night Live. Donning some stereotypical Egyptian garb and accompanied by similarly dressed dancers and musicians, he satirized the newfound popularity of Tut and how this man from thousands of years ago was like a celebrity with people making toys and trinkets about him.20

ISABEL: I think my favorite line from that song is “He gave his life…for tourism.”21 To me it really perfectly sums up what Tut became in the public eye. Forget history—people want to see and make bank on this mysterious pharaoh from Ancient Egypt.

REBECCA: And make bank they did. But it wasn’t just mass consumerism that made Tut so attractive. In Melani McAlister’s book chapter “The Common Heritage of Mankind: Race, Nation, and Masculinity in the King Tut Exhibit,” she writes that Tut was also seen as a symbol of Black identity and history for some African Americans. For example, in 1978, LA city mayor Tom Bradley created a King Tut day in February, explicitly linking Tut to Black History Month.22 Tut was no longer just an ancient pharaoh from a distant society—he was a celebration of Black history.

ISABEL: This claiming of Tut as Black stemmed from the Afrocentric approach to Egyptology—the belief that Egypt was a Black society. Let’s go back to the Atlantic slave trade, where Black people were stripped of their cultures and written off as “uncivilized” and “childlike” by Western powers in order to justify putting them into slavery. After years of being fed this propaganda that they were somehow inferior, knowledge of Ancient Egypt came along. Finally, there was a “civilized” Black society—or at least one that even white people recognized as “civilized,” whatever that means.23

REBECCA: Many Black scholars advocated for this idea of a Black Egypt. It was a way to uplift their communities after centuries of cruelty and inequality. It showed that Black people did have an impactful culture and put African history on equal terms with white history.24

ISABEL: But even the idea that African history needs to somehow get on the same level as white history is so incredibly racist. Why does Europe and North America get to “set the bar” here? Unfortunately, that was the society people were—and still are—living in. Anyways, many of these Afrocentric beliefs did not go uncriticized. Many Egyptologists have said that some claims, like Egypt being the source of all African culture, are inaccurate. Or that certain Afrocentric theories just don’t add up.25 But criticism can be controversial and biased—especially in the context of Black oppression in America and the predominantly white field of Egyptology. 

ROWAN: So what would the Ancient Egyptians say? Well, back in Tut’s own time, labels like “black” or “white” didn’t hold the same connotations that they do today. But let’s think back to those early depictions of Tutankhamun and Egypt that appeared decades earlier. The illustrations that went along with things like the “Touth-Ankh-Amon fragrance” and the “Old King Tut” song depicted him and the Ancient Egyptians as light-skinned, or with very western European features.26 And it’s important to note these depictions are either Western in origin or catering to Western audiences.

ISABEL: What is the significance of Tut becoming a symbol of Black history, especially considering how so many depictions of him and Ancient Egypt have been whitewashed? Maryan weighs in.

RAGHEB: That is also a very sensitive subject. Claiming Tut as Black is something that a lot of African Americans do and it’s their identity, they identify with this culture so that’s perfectly fine. And the reason they’re taking Tut as a symbol is because he’s a symbol of Ancient Egypt in general, like a lot of people, they don’t know anything about Ancient Egypt except Tut and the pyramids. And gold, again. So that’s understandable. The way Hollywood depicts Egyptians, or Ancient Egyptians, is, as you said, is very whitewashed. I never thought that Jaime Lannister would ever be Horus, who would’ve thought? But the problem is that if you want to do something more accurate, you have to kind of give up this Western idea of race and ethnicity because it’s different in different parts of the world. So in, in most parts of the world, people, like we don’t consider ourselves white, so why are you putting that person in? You could put someone whose more Middle Eastern. You can put even someone whose Black, that’s a very valid portrayal of Ancient Egypt because there were a lot of Nubians, there were a lot of people from different cultures, but not European white…that is, yeah…but, um, I don’t know, like I don’t necessarily see it as “Black” or “white,” it’s just not just white. Like you can put in a lot of ethnicities and it will still be an accurate portrayal.

REBECCA: Regardless of whether Tut was actually Black by modern standards, there is no doubt that he, and by extension Ancient Egypt, are powerful symbols of identity and achievement for a group of people that have been historically ripped from their cultures and denied recognition or equality in white societies.

ROWAN: And rather than just a symbol of Black history, King Tut has become one of the most well-known symbols of Ancient Egyptian culture to the world.

ISABEL: Yeah—Tut’s popularity in pop culture nowadays has allowed many people to be introduced to Ancient Egyptian culture through his depictions in books, film, and art. But how accurate are these depictions? What sorts or misconceptions do they create about King Tut and Ancient Egypt?

RAGHEB: Um, most of them are not that accurate, although there has been some attempts to make some sort of accurate depictions. But I would say that most of the movies about Tut and Ancient Egypt in general are not that accurate. I mean, The Mummy is one example, and Gods of Egypt, don’t get—don’t get me started talking about Gods of Egypt! But, yeah, so, they not only depict a lot of the historical facts wrongly, but they also, their depictions of modern Egypt is not accurate either. It—it’s kind of stereotyped, in a way. I mean for Ancient Egypt it’s, it’s just the way they dress is very exaggerated. Uh, the cities, sometimes they kind of mix things, like the, they put up a set that looks like a marketplace from, I don’t know, a Persian or an Islamic period kind of marketplace instead of an Ancient Egyptian one. So these kinds of things are very, um, I would say it sends this idea of all these exotic people who are backward, or, or just like evil, because they own some un-understandable magic, or, yeah.

ROWAN: Speaking of misconceptions, know what’s really interesting about King Tut’s mask?

REBECCA: What?

ROWAN: New studies show that it didn’t even belong to him in the first place. If you look at it closely, you can see there’s a place where another name was scratched out. That’s the name of Nefertiti, Akhenaten’s co-ruler and wife.27

REBECCA: Wow, really?

ROWAN: There’s more evidence, too. While initially covered with gold foil, the ears on his mask have piercings, which could mean it was supposed to be depicting a woman. The other materials in his tomb were also probably repurposed Nefertiti goods.28

REBECCA: It’s so strange to think that the mask practically everyone associates with King Tut wasn’t even originally his at all, nor was it depicting his likeness. It’s like everything that’s popularized in the mainstream media about him is just a…misconception.

ISABEL: I think you’re getting it here. So many of the ideas we have about Tut and Ancient Egypt just…aren’t true. And more things are discovered and more ideas refuted all the time, as the field of Egyptology grows. 

REBECCA: You know, I agree that it’s probably important for Egyptologists to know details about King Tut, like his mask and stuff, but why would the average person be aware of these things? Why is all this ancient stuff still relevant? Why should we care?

ISABEL: I agree that maybe the average person doesn’t need to know all the details of all the paintings in Tut’s tomb. I think things like his mask, though, represent just the tip of the iceberg on misconceptions about him and Ancient Egypt. The impact of these misconceptions aren’t just that the average person doesn’t know about these details. These depictions of King Tut have much more far-reaching and long-term consequences, one such being the idea of Orientalism, named so by professor Edward Said.

ROWAN: Orientalism is the lens through which the West—Europe and North America—view the Middle East. Historically, it has been used as a tool to justify imperialism and colonization in these regions by painting the Middle East as a place that couldn’t take care of itself and needed to be controlled. Orientalism homogenizes, demonizes, and “others” groups of people.29 Middle Eastern women are shown as submissive yet sensual, and Middle Eastern men are shown as barbaric. And just like the early depictions of King Tut that we have, Orientalism isn’t based on any real facts—it stems from and is perpetuated by Western imagination. 

ISABEL: So how does this all connect back to Tut and how he’s portrayed in Western pop culture?

RAGHEB: So, modern Orientalism kind of puts Egypt within this context of this backward country, where, it’s, the Europeans are going there to excavate and to find the ancient Egyptian stuff, which, yes, there are a lot of European or Western archaeologists working in Egypt, but that also undermines a lot of the work that Egyptian scholars are doing. So in these movies or in these media, it’s always the Westerners excavating and then just the Egyptians are the workers who are carrying the stuff. And although this was true at the time of Lord Carnarvon and Carter, but that has changed over time. So if you’re depicting a movie um, like uh what was it I think it was The Pyramids? It was this low-budget horror movie at some point and it was about this excavation team digging an unheard of pyramid before and they just got in and they all get killed inside the pyramid. But the whole set up of these, of these, of this excavation team is just wrong—it’s not a depiction of reality, and it only reinforces certain ideas about Egypt being all desert, all uneducated people, and for that movie for example, this event happened supposedly during the time of the 2011 revolution which was a political revolution that occurred in Egypt quite recently, and they’re showing it as completely chaotic and everything…and it’s just, it kind of…it’s a superficial way of dealing with the complexities of modern Egyptian societies as well as Ancient Egyptian societies. Uh, when we’re talking about movies that are strictly Ancient Egypt, you always find a lot of gold, just so much gold, and a lot of evil characters, and it’s just, it’s, it’s not letting people in on the real complexity of the culture in Ancient Egypt and in modern Egypt. Yeah, so I think that it reinforces this idea of Orientalism. However if we’re talking about exaggeration as something to attract the public and make them more interested in Ancient Egypt, that definitely works, unfortunately, it works.

ROWAN: Tut represents our fascination with Ancient Egypt and wanting it to be all these things it just…isn’t. 

REBECCA: It’s just like that movie I was talking about—The Curse of King Tut’s Tomb. It hits all the marks—Tut is more godlike than human, the actual history of his reign is basically nonexistent, and “big name” gods from the Ancient Egyptian religion are just cherry-picked to make the story more dramatic.30 This depiction is similar to the ones we’ve already seen so many times before—it’s told from a Western perspective. The story is told from the point of view of a white man who is the main character and the hero. Tut’s played by a white actor, too! And I get that it’s Hollywood and we should expect some fantastical elements, but these depictions aren’t doing much to help the West’s perception of Tut or Ancient Egypt.

ISABEL: The whole idea of Tut is romanticized. Popular media doesn’t know and doesn’t really care about his real story, how he fits into the Ancient Egyptian world, or what we can learn from his reign and erased legacy. They care more about the superhero Tut, the shiny, mysterious Tut with a tomb that might curse you. They care about the fantasy Tut that can sell the most souvenirs and make the most movies. And unfortunately, this image of Tut contributes to Edward Said’s idea of Orientalism, which romanticizes, generalizes and exotifies Egypt. As long as Tut is this mystical figure rather than the tragic boy king he really was, this Orientalist view of ancient Egypt will be perpetuated. 

Section 5: Conclusion (32:36)

ISABEL: King Tutankhamun’s short reign was spent trying to reverse his father’s policies and restore religious stability to Egypt. Despite his efforts, he died young and his legacy was all but erased after his death, the next dynasties not wanting to remember the controversial Amarna period. Tut went unknown for centuries until his tomb was discovered by Howard Carter in 1922, and this discovery helped fuel the already exploding infatuation with Ancient Egypt. Tut-themed ads, consumer goods, and songs were spread in popular media, as well as the inaccurate and often harmful portrayals of an “exotic” Egypt. 

REBECCA: And the hype didn’t stop there. King Tut became even more popular in the 70s, when millions came to see the artifacts from his tomb as they toured the US. Just like in the 20s, the pharaoh was romanticized, sensationalized, and commercialized for the consumption of the masses. For some, he also became a symbol of Black history and identity—a significant movement in the Western world which had often depicted Tut and Ancient Egyptians as white.

ROWAN: Today, the boy king that had an arguably insignificant reign and legacy has become the most famous pharaoh and icon of Ancient Egypt. This can be seen in pop culture—especially movies—that favor fantastical narratives that feed into stereotypes, rather than accurate portrayals.

REBECCA: Knowing all this, how should we move forward? The depictions of King Tut we’ve had thus far may have been entertaining to some, but ultimately, they’ve contributed to the harmful romanticization and exotification of Ancient Egypt that still paints the Middle East as “different” today. On a larger scale, these ideas have been used to justify colonization, racism, and stereotyping. So now what? Do we denounce these films and books? Should we put disclaimers before every one? I think it’ll take a lot more than that to undo decades of misrepresentation. 

ISABEL: If anything, having conversations like these is a good start. There’s a lot to unpack with Orientalism, and Western perceptions of King Tut just barely graze the surface. Going forward, when we look at these depictions of figures from societies that are not our own, we should be aware of who is telling the story and what their motives are. Is it a company trying to get you to buy some fancy, “exotic” item?

REBECCA: That can really change things. And we hope you all—the listeners—take this sentiment with you in your daily lives.

ISABEL: We want to thank everyone who made this episode possible: our guest speaker Maryan, who gave us such insightful information on King Tut; Deidre Whitmore for tips and tricks on recording audio; Martin Brennan for navigating copyright; Simon Lee, Jet Jacobs, and Katherine Kapsidelis for giving us research resources; our teacher Robyn Price for guiding us in this project, and our listeners for showing interest in King Tut himself! This was Isabel-

ROWAN: -Rowan-

REBECCA: -and Rebecca, and we hope you enjoyed “Tutmania.” Make sure to check out the next episode, “The Purpose of Isis,” too. Thanks for listening!

Abydos King List. 1250BC. The British Museum, https://research.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=177487&partId=1.

Benderitter, Thierry. “TUTANKHAMUN-KV62.” Edited by Jeremy Steele. Translated by Jon Hirst, Osirisnet, Osirisnet, osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/toutankhamon/e_toutankhamon_01.htm. Accessed 15 Apr. 2020.

Brier, Bob. 2013. Egypt-omania: our three thousand year obsession with the land of the pharaohs. New York: Palgrave Macmillan.

Carter, Howard. Tutankhamun: Anatomy of an Excavation, 1922. Edited by Elizabeth Flemings, et al., Griffith Institute, 2010, www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/4sea1not.html. Accessed 29 April 2020.

David, Rosalie. “Early Study and the Unwrapping of Mummies.” The Oxford Handbook of the Valley of the Kings, edited by Richard H. Wilkinson and Kent R. Weeks, Oxford University Press, 2015. Oxford Handbooks Online, doi:10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199931637.013.025. Accessed 15 Ap. 2020. 

“Dystopia.” 152. Mixkit, mixkit.co/free-stock-music/.

Fritze, Ronald H. Egyptomania a history of fascination, obsession and fantasy. London: Reaktion Books, 2017.

“King Tut – SNL.” Youtube, uploaded by Saturday Night Live, 10 Sep. 2013, www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYbavuReVF4.

McAlister, Melani. “‘The Common Heritage of Mankind’: Race, Nation, and Masculinity in the King Tut Exhibit.” Representations, no. 54, 1996, pp. 80–103. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/2928693. Accessed 15 Apr. 2020.

Mulcahy, Russel, director. The Curse of King Tut’s Tomb. Hallmark Entertainment, 2006.

Palestine Diary. “Edward Said On Orientalism.” Youtube, 28 Oct. 2012, www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVC8EYd_Z_g. 

Reeves, Nicholas. “Everywhere the Glint of Gold: The Mystery of Tutankhamun’s mask.” The Octavian Report, vol. 1, no. 3, June 2015, pp. 29. Academia, www.academia.edu/13929303/Everywhere_the_Glint_of_Gold_The_Mystery_of_Tutankhamuns_Mask_2015_. Accessed 29 April 2020.

“Serene View.” 443. Mixkit, mixkit.co/free-stock-music/.

Smithsonian Institution. Tutankhamun Treasures: A Loan Exhibition From the Department of Antiquities of the United Arab Republic. American Association of Museums and the Smithsonian Institution, 1961. HathiTrust Digital Library, https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015048541752. Accessed 15 Apr. 2020

“The King.” 857. Mixkit, mixkit.co/free-stock-music/.

“Tutankhamun.” The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin, vol. 34, no. 3, 1976, pp. 1–48. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3269009. Accessed 15 Apr. 2020.

We discuss how the goddess Isis has changed throughout time from when she was first created in ancient Egypt to nowadays where she is still revered by some in the world.

[Introduction-0:00]

Gabriela Ramirez:

Thank you for tuning in. My name is Gabriela Ramirez and you’re listening to Season Two, Episode Four of Now as Then, where we discuss the ways in which Ancient Egypt has changed the different aspects of our culture in our world today. In this episode, the purpose of Isis, we’re going to discuss how the goddess Isis has changed throughout time from when she was first created in ancient Egypt to nowadays where she is still revered by some in the world. The Cult of Isis still exists today.

GR:

So what is it about this goddess that makes her so famous? Even most people who don’t revere her in any way, know who she is, and know that she has some connection to Ancient Egypt. Even some know that she’s an Egyptian goddess. But what is it about her that makes her so popular? We find out that throughout history she has been worshipped by many, but she has not always retained the same meanings that she has had from ancient Egypt. So let’s dive into the original meanings of Isis from ancient Egypt when we first hear about her purpose there.

[Section 1: Isis in Ancient Egypt-1:46]

GR:

In ancient Egypt, when we learn about Isis, she has very much taken on the role of a mother goddess and wife to Osiris. She is specifically the mother of Horus, and in The Contendings of Horus and Set, she helps her son become the ruler of the gods and goddesses, cradling him like a baby, though there are two main forms of Horus, Horus the younger and Horus the elder. (If you would like to learn about the different forms and popularity of Horus, check out Season One, Episode Four: Falcons and Pharaohs.) In fact, some figurines of Isis are of her cradling the baby Horus and nursing him. One such figurine can be found at the John Hopkins Archaeological Museum. It has a turquoise color, and you can tell that it is Isis by the symbol that is on her hair, the “chair” symbol. She holds Horus near her breast so that she can feed him. This image of Isis cradling baby Horus speaks to her qualities as a mother: caring, protective and supportive. (If you’d like to learn more about the image of Isis nursing baby Horus, check out Season One, Episode Five: Like a Virgin: Madonna and Child.) Thus, the Egyptians viewed her in the same way, a mother, asking her for guidance and protection, just like how she did for Horus and his troubles. Here’s Jordan Galczynski, a graduate student at UCLA, with more information on the topic.

Jordan Galczynski:

I think often Isis gets kind of equated with motherhood and you know, childbirth and like the protective mother. So I think that’s often especially later on in Egyptian history she gets she gets the mother kind of signal. Earlier on, I mean, she has like the kind of regenerative aspects to with putting together Osiris and then making the first Horus. So she was very integral in starting kingship in ancient Egypt. But yeah, I think most cases it’s she’s connected to motherhood, children. Protection things like this.

GR:

So even though Isis possesses different qualities and grander powers, such as the power of regeneration, the Egyptians considered her a mother goddess, having all of the qualities of a mother and protecting Ancient Egyptians like her children.

[Section 2: Isis in Greco-Roman culture-4:20]

GR:

When foreigners began to invade and travel to Egypt, the Egyptian culture became syncretized into other civilizations, especially Greek and Roman cultures. In some cases, some Egyptian gods and goddesses were forgotten. However, Isis did not die so easily like the others. With a strong Greek influence in Egypt, especially in the Delta region, many of the Greeks began to syncretize, or merge, Isis into their culture, even along with their own gods and goddesses. Oftentimes, the Greeks would compare her to Aphrodite. It is very interesting that she would be compared to Aphrodite given her role in ancient Egypt was a mother goddess. Aphrodite does not necessarily possess motherly qualities. In fact, she is vain about her own beauty. However, the Greeks compared Isis to the fertility aspects of Aphrodite since Isis impregnated herself when she regenerated Osiris from the dead. The comparison between Aphrodite and Isis possibly gives the latter a new purpose as a goddess of fertility. Though it is not a very popularized idea, there are still some who compare Isis to Aphrodite for this purpose. However, Isis was syncretized into Greek mythology in another somewhat unusual way. There were some Greeks who believed that Isis was the goddess of the seas. Now, in Greek mythology, it’s Poseidon who’s the god of the seas; this could possibly be another connection to Isis as possible, grander powers. According to the 2019 book Isis Pelagia: Images, Names and Cults of a Goddess of the Seas, it says that “the Egyptians perceive the seas as frightening, a place where there are risks that can lead to capsizing or even death.” Even if the Egyptians did not value the seas, the Greeks definitely did as they built their entire culture around the Mediterranean Sea. So, because the Greeks began to perceive, through Egypt secretization, how much power Isis could have, they believed that her power must be demonstrated through the power of the waves. Therefore, to some cults of Isis in Greece, Isis’s purpose was to be the goddess of the seas, praying to her to keep them safe as they cross the seas as a sign of her power. It is very different from the purpose of a mother goddess.

GR:

Across the “pond” in Rome, Isis gained huge popularity than she ever had before. There she was so absorbed into Roman culture that she was considered an All-Goddess, a goddess with so much power that she had powers from most of the other deities in Roman mythology. According to the 2016 book, ISIS: Eternal Goddess of Egypt and Rome, some Romans viewed her as a savior “as she eventually becomes a beneficial goddess of nature, a saviour, and to many, the sole goddess.” Again, the savior purpose appears in the Roman culture, attributing to her great power and many Romans believed that she was so much more powerful than the other Roman deities that they worshipped Isis more. Their worship was so great that they began to build temples and statues for her. The Art History Museum in Vienna, Austria, in the Collection of Antiquities, there’s a statue of Isis from Roman culture, and it’s from the Middle Imperial period from the first half of the second century CE; it was found in Naples, Italy. Now this statue has some Egyptian culture on it, like the broken sistrum in her right hand or the jar of the holy Nile water in her left hand, or maybe the headdress of the sun disk, between cow horns, borrowed from the ancient Egyptian goddess, Hathor. The main difference is she is dressed in Roman garments, specifically black Roman garments. In the description of the statue, the dark parts of the robes are meant to contrast against the “white marble of the incarnate of the goddess” to demonstrate her purity. This statue is a great representation of Isis’s popularity among the Romans, and her popularity swept over the entire Roman Empire and remained there for many more decades. Jordan has more to add about Isis’s popularity in Rome.

JG:

I think specifically of the Romans, adopt the Cult of Isis and bring the cult back to you know, the Italian peninsula. So you find we find temples dedicated to Isis in Pompei. You can there’s one, there’s one in Rome. We have people being you know, priests of Isis, Italians, Romans. Even stories The Golden Ass, The Metamorphosis is a story about a individual a Roman going trying to initiate into the Isis cult, and all the mysteries that and you know is part of this.

GR:

The mystical and exotic aspect of Isis being from ancient Egypt, also very much appealed to the Romans. The main significance here of Isis from the Greeks and the Romans is that to them, she was not a mother goddess. To some Greeks, she was a powerful goddess, the goddess of the seas. Although it definitely surprised me, I can see why they viewed her as a goddess of the seas, due to her power and connection to water from two very different civilizations. The Greeks knew that they had to appeal to her for safe passage on the seas. Then we move on further to Roman culture, and she’s seen as an All-Goddess, almost as if she was monotheistic, even though some Romans were still polytheistic and did worship the other gods and goddesses. But they were many, many Romans who saw her as a generic, mystical, All-Goddess with a lot of power to bring salvation to them. It was very different from her role as a mother goddess, someone who would protect the Egyptians.

[Section 3: The Disappearance of the Cult of Isis’s Popularity-11:33]

GR:

As I continued my research, I noticed that I could not find sources that stated she was very popular during the Middle Ages or the Renaissance era. And I think the reason for this has to do with the rising popularity of Christianity. Here’s what Jordan says about the popularity of Christianity and how it affected Cults of Isis at the end of the Roman Empire.

JG:

I think just like, you know, Christianity being so popular and you can’t, you know, in Christian thought you there’s one god right you can’t worship other gods. So the popularity of Christianity and in being Christian at least in, you know, Europe and such, takes over. Even in Egypt right we have there they convert very quickly to Christianity so I just think yeah the popularity of monotheism right. monotheistic religions during the time take over.

GR:

Sometimes some Christian officials would take brutal ways to stop people from worshipping polytheistic religions. Those who are found worshipping another god, or pagans, were put to death. So someone who was worshipping Isis would have most likely stopped. However, this does not mean that the Cult of Isis died off. In fact, the Cult of Isis has been found in some unusual places.

[Section 4: Isis in Modern Times-13:05]

GR:

So let’s move on further in time and go to County Wexford in Ireland in 1994. An article was published in the National Catholic Reporter called “Goddess Isis alive and well in County Wexford.” Now, you might be probably thinking, “Wait, isn’t Ireland predominantly Catholic?” And this article implicitly asked the same question as well. The article asserts that even in Catholic Ireland, the cult of Isis is very popular. It addresses how the first appearance of the cult of Isis was in 1976, 18 years before the publication of this article. It even shows a picture of Isis in the Huntington Castle temple. Olivia Robertson and the Reverend Lawrence Durdin-Robertson “launched the fellowship of Isis” which praised Isis for her feminine divinity, especially since they needed a powerful “female spirituality” against the “men who have been messing up the world.” They found Isis so that they could have some connection to divinity to help them out. This was in the 1970s 1980s, where the goddess Isis is still very much popular, possibly even due to Egyptomania, the renewed interest of Europeans in ancient Egypt, with, yet again, another different purpose for the goddess Isis, and her popularity continues even into the 21st century. In an article called Isis & Secret Magic & Esoteric Books, by Isidora from the website Isiopolis, a website dedicated to the goddess Isis, there is a picture of what a modern-day altar of Isis would look like. The modern altar of Isis of the fellowship of Isis in Utah has a little Isis figurine in the center with her wings expanded outwards and upwards to show the full length of her power. Surrounding her are other little figurines and some flowers, one of the other figurines being Osiris. Behind her, there’s a tapestry of Isis, laying on her side and her wings spread out. Here, Isis is a magician goddess. This ability actually comes from some evidence of it in ancient Egypt, and it was not as known as her role as a mother goddess. However, some current Fellowships of Isis “understood magic to be inseparable from a relationship with Isis, the Goddess of Magic … from the compassionate magic of healing to the ecstasy of the theurgic union that renews the spirit and deepens the soul.” Isis now has a new purpose, Isis as the goddess of magic, magic that is used to heal. Now, this is a different purpose than what we have seen; before, she was powerful, a mother, purely divine. Now, she is a magician but most of all, a healer. Many people can speculate about why, in modern times, people want to see her as a magic healer, done through compassion. One speculation, and again, it is a speculation, is that through all the war and suffering we have been through, some people wanted a little compassion in the world.

[Section 5: Isis Commercialized in Popular Media-16:53]

GR:

Though the Cults and Fellowships of Isis are popular in modern times today, there are many people who don’t worship her but still use the aesthetic and some understanding of Isis to commercialize her meaning. For example, in 2014, Katy Perry released a music video to her single “Dark Horse” featuring Juicy J. Towards the end of the music video, around three minutes, Katy Perry begins to ascend the pyramid that she received as a gift, demonstrating her power, but at around three minutes and 20 seconds, she begins to pull these wings from behind and strongly hold them out as she continues to sing, and the song begins to finish. These images are the same as the images of Isis on a modern altar. Even before this moment in the video, she says she is Aphrodite, provoking the comparison of Isis to Aphrodite. Afterwards, I found another video titled “Katy Perry’s ‘Dark Horse’ Behind the Scenes” to see if there was any reason for why she chose to be Isis at the end of the music video. Although she did mention the parts about her being Isis, she didn’t give any explanation for this choice. So, I must speculate if the use of Isis is a part of ancient Egyptian commercialization, or using images of ancient Egypt for someone’s profits. Like I mentioned before, not many people know much about the goddess Isis. Then, could it be that Katy Perry was commercializing the way Isis looked like so that she could appeal to those who might recognize that she was trying to look like Isis? She would not just be commercializing Isis, but all of ancient Egypt. She compared herself to Cleopatra as well, and there are various images of Egyptian gods and goddesses that would be in ancient Egyptian tombs. She uses the aesthetic of ancient Egypt as background to what her song is really about: telling a lover not to mess with her. Here’s what Jordan says about possible commercialization in “Dark Horse.”

JG:

I think they’re harkening back to these images we have from either bright spreading her wings being like a vulture Goddess, right, of like protecting. So I think they’re definitely pulling on these metaphors that the Egyptians would recognize today if they saw Katy Perry’s music video, but then to the Egyptians, right. This stuff was supposed to be you know, not shown to the public, maybe kept in a tomb, kept in the temple, in like a very sacred space and not for you know, popular media or something like this. So I think the Egyptians would be like, you’re blaspheming like the goddess right? So I think they would recognize the artistic metaphors being used right? Like recall Isis her, her headdress, maybe her garb, the wings and stuff like this. But I don’t think they would acknowledge how she’s being used I guess in this commercialization sense of like harkening back to this exotic Egypt, like Katy Perry was trying to do.

GR:

Thus, it begs the question, is it due to reference to Isis, or mass commercialization?

[Section 6: Conclusion-20:36]

GR:

In conclusion, Isis had all these different purposes throughout time and space. To the Egyptians, she was a mother goddess. To some Greeks, she was the goddess of the seas, paralleling the importance of the seas. To the Romans, with which she gained much popularity, she was a generic Savior, All-Goddess, very powerful, very mystical. Then, in County Wexford, 1976, she was a goddess of pure female divinity to combat patriarchy. In modern times, she’s a compassionate magic healer goddess. Throughout these changes of meanings, Isis was constantly commercialized, along with the rest of ancient Egypt, to gain profit from her aesthetics.

GR:

But why? Why Isis? Circling back to our main question, why Isis? She’s developed many meanings and purposes throughout time and history that some people may not even know what is real anymore. I think, however, the bigger question is this. What was actually happening at the time when her purpose changed? With the Greeks and the Romans, they were invading and traveling to Egypt and were mesmerized with the exoticness of this place. Thus came Isis as a powerful goddess with a mystical aspect. In the 1970s, the feminist movement was taking a hold in many places around the world, wanting women to have more power. Thus came Isis as a powerful feminist goddess. Nowadays, in 2020, there is still prejudiced injustice in our country and all over the world. Thus came Isis as a compassionate healer goddess. Even in the Middle Ages and Renaissance era, when she was not popular, Christian officials persecuted those who worshipped polytheistic gods and goddesses. The main common denominator is this: something major happened, added with the exotic aspect of Isis and ancient Egypt, that prompted people to change Isis’s purpose to fit the times. All of this could be speculation, but I’ll leave you with this thought. There are some people who love the aesthetic of ancient Egypt and its popularity and to some extent, the power that Isis represents. So maybe that’s why the goddess Isis appeals to them so much. Whether it is true reverence or commercialization. Isis has some great importance to most people in the world today.

[Section 7: Outro-23:48]

GR:

Thank you for listening to this episode of Now as Then. If you’re interested in more content like this, be sure to check out our other episodes of Now as Then. I’d like to give a big thanks to Deidre Whitmore of Digital Archaeology Lab Cotsen Institute, Robyn Price, Simon Lee, Katherine Kapsidelis, Jet Jacobs of UCLA Library Special Collections, and Martin Brennan of Scholarly Communication Education for making this podcast possible. I want to give a special thanks to my interviewee, Jordan Galczynski for her input in this episode.

Again, thank you so much for listening, and stay healthy.

Bleeker, Claas Jouco. “Isis as Saviour Goddess.” The Saviour God; Comparative Studies in the Concept of Salvation, Presented to Edwin Oliver James, 1963, pp. 1–16. EBSCOhost, search.ebscohost.com/login.aspxdirect=true&db=reh&AN=ATLA0001053832&site=ehost-live.

Bragantini, Irene. “The Cult of Isis and Ancient Egyptomania in Campania.” Contested Spaces: Houses and Temples in Roman Antiquity and the New Testament, 2012, pp. 21–33. EBSCOhost, search.ebscohost.com/login.aspxdirect=true&db=reh&AN=ATLA0001934215&site=ehost-live.

Bricault, Laurent. Isis pelagia: images, names and cults of a goddess of the seas. Translated by Gil H. Renberg. Religions in the Graeco-Roman world 190. Leiden; Boston: Brill. 2020. DOI: 10.1163/9789004413900.

Diadora. “Katy Perry’s “Dark Horse” Behind The Scenes.” Youtube. 19 June 2014. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuoP9GXKn0I

Galczynski, Jordan. A graduate student at UCLA. 28 May 2020.

Faience statuette of Isis suckling Horus. ECM 1717, Eton College Myers Collection. John Hopkins Archaeological Museum. Baltimore, Maryland.

Farrell, Michael J. “Goddess Isis Alive and Well in County Wexford.” National Catholic Reporter, vol. 30, no. 35, 29 July 1994, p. 10. EBSCOhost, search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=a9h&AN=9408183580&site=ehost-live.

Isidora, and Serapion. “Isis & Sacred Magic & Esoteric Books.” Isiopolis, 6 July 2013, isiopolis.com/2013/07/06/isis-sacred-magic-esoteric-books/.

Jackson, Lesley. Isis: eternal goddess of Egypt and Rome. London: Avalonia. 2016.

Nikoloska, Aleksandra. “Evidence of the Cults of Isis on the Territory of the Republic of Macedonia.” A History of Research Into Ancient Egyptian Culture in Southeast Europe, edited by Mladen Tomorad, Archaeopress, 2015, pp. 221–228. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvqmp0sp.25. Accessed 16 Apr. 2020.

Perry, Katy. Dark Horse (Official) Ft. Juicy J. Youtube, Capitol Records, 20 Feb. 2014, www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KSOMA3QBU0.

Statue of Isis. Roman, Middle Imperial period. 2nd century CE. Naples, Italy. Kunsthistoriesches Museum. Vienna, Austria. https://www.khm.at/objektdb/detail/50667/?offset=2&lv=floorplan. 

Yan-Kee. D. “Allegretto cantabile.” Divertimento of Life. Free Archive Music. https://files.freemusicarchive.org/storage-freemusicarchive-org/music/ccCommunity/Dee_Yan-Key/Divertimento_of_Life/Dee_Yan-Key_-_01_-_Allegretto_cantabile.mp3

Have you ever wanted to explore the old tombs of Ancient Egypt? Ever wonder why they were made? Or what exactly the journey to the underworld looked like? In this episode of Now as Then, we’ll be diving into Ancient Egyptian tombs, the ways they assisted the dead to the underworld, and the ways that the contents found within them still pervade western media to this day. From there, we’ll be touching on the ways media uses tombs to capitalize off of Ancient Egypt, and the ways that Ancient Egypt has continued to be culturally relevant, in part due to tombs.

            Section One: Introduction

Musical Intro

SOPHIE NENNINGER: So imagine it’s the 1800s and you’re unexplored traveling into Egypt for the first time. Now you’ve never been and as you’re seeing the grand artifacts and architecture of the ancient kingdom, you’re wondering, Yo, what’s up with all this dead stuff? Hi, welcome to season two episode five of now versus then, I’m Sophie Nenninger and today we’re going to be talking about the tombs of ancient Egypt.

So right off the gate, let me address the idea of death in ancient Egypt that has been perpetrated by the Western world. Because of all the preserved tombs mummies and sarcophagi, Egypt has been branded as an exotic mummy obsessed kingdom. And while that is not entirely untrue, it does depict Egypt in a two dimensional light, which I will be working to uncover within this episode.

Starting off the podcast we’ll explore the original tombs of ancient Egypt, what they look like and the things they were buried with the dead. Moving on to the Victorian era. We’ll be talking about Egyptomania and the 1800s and the ways that the aesthetics of tombs were integrated into the art and architecture of Britain. From there, it’s the roaring 20s and the ways that art deco was inspired by King Tut’s tomb and as well as some of the fashion trends inspired by the sarcophagi. Lastly, we’ll be covering the modern world how fashion has capitalized on some of the Egyptian tomb aesthetics and interpreted the artwork into popular culture.

[Musical Transition]

            Section Two: Ancient Egyptian Tombs (00:02:07)

NENNINGER: So the Egyptians had been burying their dead in tombs since the pre dynastic period, which was about 6000 to 3100 BCE. But these tombs are not our traditional idea of what an ancient Egyptian tomb would look like. They were graves lined with brick in the ground, often containing pottery and small in contrast to the pyramids of the Old Kingdom.1

Our interviewee Kylie Thompson mentioned these kinds of tombs and our conversation about the big tombs of ancient Egypt. And because I messed up the audio, I’ll introduce her here. Kylie is a PhD candidate for Near Eastern language and cultures department at UCLA, and she focuses in Middle Kingdom funerary archaeology, here she was explaining the timeline of tombs that existed in the ancient Egyptian kingdoms.

KYLIE THOMPSEN: You want to start at like the earliest point of what we consider of, you know, Ancient Egypt. You start with tombs that are just directly into the ground. It’s kind of a lot like, you know, our modern cemeteries, you know, buried with, you know, obviously the bodies and maybe some objects really depending on sort of social status. That’s a huge thing, especially in the ancient world, we deduce a lot of information about people through their tombs, and what was in them and how large they were, things like this. Doesn’t always mean the same thing, but it helps us understand more about them as time progressed from the pre dynastic period, and you go into the Old Kingdom, that’s when you get like things called mastaba tombs. So you still have like shafts and chambers and what have you under the ground but then you have this large mud brick structure on top so you can just imagine being an ancient Egyptian walking around and there are these you know, giant superstructures.

Of course, that would be you know, probably quite intense. So you can- and it’s intense for us to even though we don’t have them perfectly preserved, you go to Egypt. Now you can sort of see what these look like. And then you kind of continue on with this. You have these mastaba tombs, but you also get pyramids and these, I kind of touched on this before, but you’re going to get drastically different types of tombs, depending on social status. And so if you’re the king, the Pharaoh, you start to have pyramids built. The upper elite –These things are sort of hard to, you know, when we’re using like our modern day, sort of conceptions of like, what elite is, but suffice it to say upper elites, they have these fill these mastaba tombs. Sometimes rock cut to tombs, so things like into a cliff.

But you know, then you have also massive pyramids with a lot of stuff inside. We don’t know exactly what because that’s another important thing about ancient Egyptian tombs most were looted, objects were taken out to be reused. The tombs themselves were reused, right. So we are missing a lot of information. Pyramids, you know, sort of persisted for a while for, you know, through the Middle Kingdom. That’s the time period that I’m interested in. And then they sort of fall off. And now when we get to the new kingdom, which I think this is another thing people think about when thinking about tombs is for example, King Tut’s tomb. He’s a new kingdom King. And that’s where you have like the Valley of the Kings. This is used for, you know, a couple hundreds of years. And these are, you know, you have sort of this mountainous–that’s probably not the right word, but you have all these different cliff faces and tombs were being dug into this into the rock. And you have all these different chambers and King Tut. So famous not because he did anything super exciting but just because he’s actually the only sort of King that we have his funerary equipment almost completely preserved–we do know that some stuff was looted in antiquity. But so like all these, you know, this idea we have of all the gold and all the different things and the decoration that all comes from King Tut’s tomb and that’s why he’s, you know, captured the imagination of, you know, like almost everybody, right?

And yeah, and that sort of, you know, continues on these rock cut tombs are what are most, you know, it’s what most people are doing, who have the means to have these types of tombs. But yeah, so it’s a long history. It’s a couple thousand years, but that’s sort of like a quick and dirty rundown to styles throughout the ages.

NENNINGER: So like Kylie said, the tombs built to bury the dead actually varied quite a bit. They went from these original cemeteries to mastabas to pyramids to tombs cut out of the sides of mountains, to chambers built in the Valley of the Kings and to the eventual merging of Egyptian burials with Roman and Greek tradition in the Ptolemaic period.

And I know that in our modern perception of tombs, you might just think, oh, we have cemeteries. They’re not too different from tombs, but tombs in cemeteries were relatively uncommon at this time in societies other than Egypt. That’s not to say they didn’t exist, but not to the level of ancient Egypt.2

The tomb that I’m choosing to focus on today was the tomb of Seti I who was an ancient Egyptian pharaoh in the 19th dynasty. His tomb was located in the East Valley of the Kings and is the longest tomb in the valley at 137 meters.3 I’m choosing to use this tomb because the reliefs are incredibly extravagant, and I think the depictions on the walls encapsulate a lot of what we consider today to be cliche Egyptian aesthetics due to the nature of the excavation of the tomb. The function of the tomb itself was to assist the dead to the afterlife. Seti’s tomb was large enough to house the texts of multiple books which were there as a guide for Seti, the Book of the Dead was inscribed on the walls of the tomb to guide the king to the duat, or the underworld. In an essay by Bojana Mosjav, she details the meanings and inscriptions and the artwork on the walls, the secret names of Ra that were invoked for the protection of the pharaoh, his image ingrained on the wall, bringing him back to life with the heavenly cow ready to carry him into the sky. His sarcophagus was laid under the night sky, the sky goddess embracing the tomb sparkled with stars. Thus, the tomb itself functions as a piece of the physical underworld, a space tied between life and death.4

So from what we know about all of these kinds of tombs in the interiors of them, how were they supposed to, like, assist the dead to the underworld?

THOMPSEN: So that’s a great question because I think it’s what most people sort of forget about when thinking about tombs that it was a space for the dead to be transformed. And then eventually, you know, make it into the afterlife.

There’s so many different elements that come into play. Again, depending on what type of tool it is, but I’ll just sort of give a generalized answer that can sort of somewhat be applied throughout history to a degree. But you have, you know, for example, you have like the actual burial chamber right, a tomb could be much larger, it has a funerary chapel where people bring offerings to the dead. You have, you know, different sub chambers, like empty chambers, all these different things where objects are going, you have text on the walls and hieroglyphs that have sort of if you’ve ever heard of like the Book of the Dead people, you know, they’ll say like, Book of the Dead spell 117 something like this. So again, I think even just that language, kind of like, you know, captures the imagination. But you know, you have these texts that are supposed to assist the dead to the underworld. Certainly The fact that they’re mummified that they’re in a coffin that they’re in a sarcophagus, the colors that are used, they’re just, it’s so like, every element in a way sort of plays into the ultimate goal of having the deceased person transformed and, you know, go properly to the afterlife, right? Yeah. So yeah, totally.

NENNINGER: So in the tomb of Seti I, we see a lot of the texts and books that Kylie was talking about. Because of the size of the tomb, there was enough wall space to include the book of the afterlife, the Amduat or the Book of the Dead, the Book of the Gates, the Litany of the Sun, the Book of the Heavenly Cow and the ritual Opening of the Mouth, as well as the Judgment of Osiris. Now, I don’t have enough time to explain all of these depictions but the Book of the Heavenly Cow, for example, is an ancient Egyptian text which deals with the rebellion of humanity against Ra and then his destruction of all of the rebels against him through the goddess Hathor. But when Hathor is sent down to earth, she kind of goes on this or bloodlust rampage. So Ra decides to have mercy and gets Hathor drunk so that she turns away from her bad side which is named Sekhmet back into Hathor who is a friend of humanity. But after all of this mess goes down Ra decides that he’s tired of looking over humanity. So he asks the goddess Nun to take him up to the heavens, but Nun doesn’t really know how to do this. So Nut turns Nun into the Heavenly Cow and Ra rides away on her back while the other Gods help her to transport Ra, higher from the earth and away from human beings. I chose this one because I love cows and I could totally get behind a celestial heavenly cow. That sounds kind of amazing.5

Anyways, the actual depiction on the wall is a giant cow being held by all of the gods in assisting raw up to the heavens, and this image in a tomb was to assist the pharaoh up into their rightful place in the heavens(Osirisnet). Looking at the tomb of Seti I today, it’s now very dramatically lit, and some of the paint has rubbed off but the small chapel and pillared hallway still have retained their color. In the images I’m seeing of the walls most of them appear to be bas reliefs in the aspect of style of most traditional ancient Egyptian art. A bas relief is when an image is etched out of a wall and the image pops out and the background remains flat. And aspective art style can be described as art that lacks perspective.6This doesn’t make it lesser than it just means it serves a different purpose than art with perspective and it’s used to describe the traditional Egyptian style of drawing people in profile. That is commonly associated with ancient Egyptian art now, as you can see, inspired by music like walk like an Egyptian.

So these details about the tomb are important because it’s a lot of what ends up being passed down to modern day society, and things that we commonly associate with ancient Egypt. These walls and the tomb have a sense of timelessness. stillness, like it could last an eternity rather just encapsulating a moment. The walls depict Gods like Horace, Isis, Osiris and Amun and the paint that has lasted is golden, teal, and a rich read. These depictions are what I see most commonly throughout history and pieces inspired by Ancient Egypt, the golden ideal of the kingdom, vibrant, stoic, everlasting and aspective. These images weren’t depicted to capture a moment like impressionists might have, but they were created to immortalize the king. And in doing so they immortalized a society or at least made it last long enough for it to reach modern society.

Also, although this tomb was robbed before archaeologists ever discovered it, it is important to note that it was full of the pharaohs, belongings and pieces of art that were meant to accompany him to the underworld.

I think that this tomb is representative of how the Western world began to see and interpret Ancient Egypt. The beautiful golden art we see on the walls and aspect of style becomes taken on as an aesthetic in the world of the Victorian era and onward, and the fashion of the goddesses in the depictions on the walls became inspiration for later fashion in the 1920s Art Deco movement.

It was discovered in 1817 by Giovanni Belzoni, and parts of the interior were taken to London and Duluth, as well as the sarcophagus which is now in the John Soane’s museum. The tomb was also vandalized by Egyptologists. The tomb was also vandalized by Egyptologists Champollion and Lepsius who cut off two life size reliefs for the Louvre.7 Because so much of this tomb was immediately shipped off to Europe, it’s easy to make the claim that Europe became inspired by it. 

So now let’s Boogie on down to the Victorian era and see how Europe was shaped by ancient Egypt.

Section Three: Egyptomania in Victorian England (00:15:22)

[Musical Transition]

NENNINGER: So several thousand years go by we all know the drama of Antony and Cleopatra, the Greeks take over Egypt and we skip over to Napoleonic France. When Napoleon enters Egypt, he takes claim over Egyptian artifacts and artwork and begins collecting artifacts to bring back to France.8 This triggers the first era of Egyptomania in Europe, and the British get this creepy fascination with ancient Egypt and start incorporating it into everything. So for some context on Victorian England, the era is famous for Queen Victoria who basically sent the country into a 100 year romantic slash emo party.

The era was a juxtaposition between the new industrialism that the country was headed towards and the Gothic era that it was bent on going back to. And one of the big reasons that this time was so dark was because Queen Victoria herself experienced the death of her husband, and was mourning for most of our queenship. Because of this, the entire era is branded by this Gothic and romantic aesthetic for life.9

Because of the obsession with death and immortality and the natural ways of living, A lot of the British clung to this idea of ancient Egypt, which they associated with death, but also contradictory with an existence of immortality due to the longevity of its rule.

NENNINGER: So, when we think about it when these objects were starting to be taken out of tombs in the 1800s, what do you think like Europeans clung on to the most as like this idea of ancient Egyptian tombs and the dead and all of this, like, ooh, afterlife business.

THOMPSEN: So it totally kind of, I mean, it’s been brought up already in our short interview so far, but obviously these things just when you look at it, It definitely, again, really captures the imagination, but you sort of get during the 1800s. It’s called like Egyptian revival. And because, you know, I think most people are sort of familiar with, like the Art Deco style and the like 1930s. But even like you mentioned before , when you know, there’s a lot of stuff happening in Egypt, as it relates to like archaeological projects. And so objects were being transported back to the museum, and a lot of stuff is related to what would have been in the tombs or it came from tombs, but they, you know, they’re looted and sold on the art market, things like this. I think what sort of got them the most were, of course, the pyramids, which is a tomb but that was super incorporated into a lot of different things, pyramids themselves. This isn’t necessarily related to the tomb, but I feel like I should bring it up, you know, obelisks like our own. You know, like, we have In Washington, DC, a giant obelisk, things like this were really sort of pervasive within this, you know, visual culture of the 1800s Egyptian revival objects in the tomb like this scarab you know, the little winged beetles.

NENNINGER: Yea!

THOMPSEN: This comes up like on furniture, jewelry, all this different type of stuff. So even though you might see it outside of a tomb context as well, it’s also in the tomb. So they’re kind of you know, I think certainly the like tomb decoration is what really sort of fascinated people. The dress like what people are wearing in, like depictions on the walls, I think, you know, that really lik the jewelry that they’re wearing. I think that also was incorporated. So a lot of these different elements. Definitely in architecture and furniture and probably clothing and jewelry as well, all sorts of, you know.

NENNINGER: So when we talk about the 1800s incorporation of Egypt into the identity of Europe, it’s important to mention Orientalism and the justification of stealing artifacts by European entities. I’ll get more into Orientalism later but in the context of the 1800s Orientalism was basically the depiction of Eastern and Near Eastern countries as inferior to Europe to justify taking their artifacts.10

Due to the nature of the Gothic era as an artistic movement. Much of Egyptian aesthetics were incorporated into the look of the artistic style. In terms of visual aesthetics, scarab necklaces and rings based off of the amulets found in ancient Egyptian tombs were incorporated into the mourning garments of those mourning the dead. Egyptian scarab amulets were worn by the dead to assist them in the weighing of the heartbeat by Osiris. However, in the Victorian era, widows would wear them after their husbands had died.11 Victorian Englanders took their mourning very seriously. There were a set of rules for how you’re supposed to dress and act after someone important to you died.

Garb wasn’t the only thing inspired by Egyptian tombs. The most literal incorporation of ancient Egyptian tombs was in the West section of the Highgate Cemetery in London, which was nicknamed Egyptian Avenue.12 Now on first glance, I didn’t really see the Egyptian influence and if it had not been nicknamed Egyptian Avenue, I probably would not have found it. The cemetery is definitely the British ideal of what Egypt look like and not completely accurate. It’s kind of when people used to paint elephants who have never seen an elephant and then the painting ends up looking horrendous and nothing like an elephant. This section of the cemetery has an archway into it, and it is lined with two columns and there’s an obelisk on either side. The actual archway has this kind of rounded upside down V shape, which I don’t believe is an accurate representation of what a real doorway looks like in ancient Egyptian tombs. It seems a little more inspired from indo Islamic architecture, such as the Taj Mahal and they kind of just threw on this style of archway associating it with other exotic quote unquote, countries.13 A real Egyptian tomb often had a traditional rectangular shaped archway into the doorway. However, the two columns lining it do look accurate to what a tomb really did look like in ancient Egypt and the novelists are obviously from Egypt, even though they aren’t really at the center entryway into tombs. I think it’s important to note about the cemetery that even though it’s not really an accurate depiction of what ancient Egyptian tombs look like, it does point to the fact that Britain was obsessed with this Egyptian ideal of death, enough to incorporate it into their own funerary rituals. Although it wasn’t a perfect depiction of an ancient Egyptian tomb. The British believe that this Egyptian way of burying their dead is associated with true respect of their dead. Despite this, it does perpetuate the idea that Egypt was this foreign exotic country to the extent that Britain actually kind of grouped together two countries, which are nowhere near each other to create this one theme cemetery.

And more specifically in the realm of art, the Gothic artistic movement incorporated very literally a lot of Egyptian themes. Oscar Wilde published his book The Sphinx, Bram Stoker published the Jewel of the Seven Stars, and I think most popularly, Percy Bysshe Shelley wrote Ozymandias.

This poem has stayed relevant since the original publication even being featured in the trailer for the final season of Breaking Bad. Here’s a segment of the poem read by Bryan Cranston.

I met a traveller from an antique land,

Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone

Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,

Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,

And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,

Tell that its sculptor well those passions read

Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,

The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;

And on the pedestal, these words appear:

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.”14

So now that Bryan Cranston has not only flexed on us with his impeccable voice, but with the great audio quality compared to my childhood closet bedroom with a blanket over my head, let’s get into what this poem means.

The poem depicts the remnants of the statue of Ramses II, and although it doesn’t give a description of a tomb, the poem is about a once godlike King and one that was determined to have his legacy live on after death. Not only does the sculpture itself speak to the nature of immortality after death in ancient Egypt, but it also speaks to this Gothic fear of death. All of the literature of the period that was written about undead creatures highlights a fascination of the dead, but also a fear of it funneled through a lens of a creature incapable of dying. The irony of this poem is that although Shelley is making a point that no one can survive the test of time, yet he immortalizes Ramses II by writing about him and he is immortalized again through the Breaking Bad reference to him. Shelley also depicts an Egypt different to the romanticized version often seen in other works at the time. While they all depict this golden ideal of Egypt. This one is of the barren desert and the sands that stretch far into the horizon.

            Section Four: Tutmania, Art Deco, and the Roaring 20s (00:24:58)

[Musical Transition]

NENNINGER: Egyptomania never really got the chance to come down as it transitioned to Tutmania at the discovery of the tomb of Tutankhamen which just revamped the obsession once again. The tomb had been mostly hidden from tomb robbers and maintained its original condition for the most part. For more information on the tomb of tooten common check out season two episode three of now as then, which delves into the boy King and why his legacy has lived on. Because of the discovery of his tomb Egyptologist got an idea of some of the Grand objects that were buried with the pharaohs. And because we had those objects and those objects were taken to museums, the general public became obsessed with the findings of this tomb. This obsession led to another resurgence of the aesthetic within the artistic world. However, Egypt was already popular before the discovery of Tut’s tomb in 1925. Costume designer and artist, Sonia Delaunay, took inspiration from the golden jewelry found in the tombs of the loof and her costumes of Cleopatra in the London Music Hall became hugely popular indicating public popularity before the discovery of Tut.15

Furthermore, one year before the discovery of Tut, the Sid Gauman’s theater was built in Hollywood. Yet after the discovery of King Tut the obsession boomed. Dresses based on Tut’s sarcophagus became popular, Delaunay herself and designed a dress inspired by Tut’s innermost sarcophagus and French jeweler Cartier made a vanity case shaped as an Egyptian sarcophagus, which was meant to be an homage to the way Egyptians beautified mummies.16

Okay, um, what do you think is the most common misconception about interiors of ancient Egyptian tombs or the reasons for burying the dead or any of that kind of situation?

THOMPSEN: So I definitely think one of the biggest misconceptions it probably based on like the movies we were talking about, too, is people always bring up like if I, you know, mentioned that I’m an Egyptologist or I work in Egypt or something like this. They want to talk about mummies in particular and they always think mummies were meant to be, like, brought back to life. Like right now, like here, like, no, it’s much more complicated than that. They’re not trying to like wake up and, you know, in 2021 or 2020 and be like, Hello, I’m here. It was to preserve the body. So their spirit could like recognize the body when it was re inhabited. But like, again, always in the afterlife, it’s all about the afterlife. Or a lot of it is about the afterlife, right? So I think that’s one of the big misconceptions. I think one of the other misconceptions is that we have all these like tomb with, like, all this, like gold, and you had these like, giant fancy, like, funerary processions, where it’s just like the most elaborate thing you’ve ever seen. And, and while like, we don’t know exactly what went on, right, we weren’t there and we’re missing a lot of information. I think. People don’t realize that we’re like, again, a lot of that stuff is not in the tombs now. A lot of even, like, the tomb decoration that would be on the walls has fallen off and it’s being restored and things like this. I think people think we have a lot more than we do. It’s not to say we don’t have a ton of stuff. When you’re studying Ancient Egypt, we don’t have like, a lack of information per se, but I think a lot of people think of King Tut’s tomb and his like, golden coffin and sarcophagus and things like this, and they assume we have that, you know, for everybody across history. And yeah, and maybe some– oh, here’s another really good one. And this will be my final point, specifically about the pyramids because these again, were tombs. And I think just all of this pseudo science and like the ancient alien esque type stuff as it relates to pyramids, like you know, like, Oh, we have to go to the top and it’s gonna like all get this like special solar charge or whatever, I’m going to go into the sarcophagus of Khufu in his pyramid, and I’ll whatever. Or just like that the aliens built them when we know exactly how they were built. There’s like a lot of Oh, actually, that’s my final point. The last thing I want to say is we do know a lot more about like, like, you know, people were constructing them, people made these objects. It’s not like this magical mystical thing. I think people kind of forget about the human element that they were made, in fact, by people. And we know a lot about the engineering we know a lot about like the craftspersonship. It’s not just like totally evading us, and we’re like, oh, yeah, must have been aliens, and it was used for grain storage. We know how it was built, and you know, all these things. So, So yeah.

NENNINGER: The 20s also really capitalized on the Egyptian aesthetic, and it would be inaccurate if I didn’t mention that much of these products were being sold by essentially selling the idea of exoticism to rich white people. It allows the buyer to feel as if they were an adventurer on a mission to excavate the next tomb and perpetuates the depiction of ancient Egypt as a one dimensional country.

So I recently had a conversation with my dad about his trip to Egypt and Orientalism came up because what else are you going to talk about during quarantine? I think it’s an important conversation to have right now, especially with the anti racist movement going on. And I think it’s an important topic to be brought to the table as it’s not talked about very often.

BOB NENNINGER: The tombs feel very Indiana Jones, and you can’t help but associate the Hollywood interpretation of something. And your sort of like, sense of adventure is sometimes wrapped up into what Hollywood is feeding you. And then you go and you see it. You’re like, thrilled by the fact that it’s actually like that. Yeah, this cool factor where you feel like you’re–you’re discovering it for the first time.

SOPHIE: Yeah.

BOB NENNINGER: You get that feeling because it feels like you’re on the edges of civilization when you’re there. Yeah.

NENNINGER: So, do you know what Orientalism is?

BOB NENNINGER: Not really. I think if I had to define it, I wouldn’t really be able to. I’ve heard the word and I might be able to patch it together. But no, I should be honest. I don’t know what it is.

NENNINGER: Yeah, no, that’s completely valid. It’s not very, like, used in mainstream–mainstream media. So basically, in 1978, Edward Said published his book, Orientalism, which defines the Europe, European and Western interpretation of the Near East and Eastern cultures as historically patronizing. And he uses this, like, imperialist and colonialist agenda of European countries as evidence for the depiction of these countries as subordinate and also to establish power over these countries and create a caricature of culture in order to capitalize off of them. So if for example like the Movie Aladdin, you wouldn’t really think about the fact that it is kind of a two dimensional picture of the Near East and East, Middle East, because it’s like a Disney movie. And you’re just like,

BOB NENNINGER: Oh, totally.

NENNINGER: and it’s like a fake thing. But if you think about it, like they’re depicting, a lot of like, the villains are darker skinned in the movie. Half of the costumes are kind of not real representations of what those people would be wearing. And then they use a lot of the culture as just like a exotic depiction of what we think it is, and not a reality. So when we’re talking about like the Indiana Jones interpretation,

BOB NENNINGER: That’s totally orientalism.

NENNINGER: yeah, totally, totally. Because it’s like we’re selling this idea to white people that if they go to Egypt, they’ll have this whole fantasy of being the original adventurer, and they continue to use that . Less in the Victorian era, the Victorian era was kind of just like using it as an aesthetic, and as an idea, but during the 20s when people were starting to become Egyptologists and archaeologists, it was kind of selling this idea of going to Egypt and having this very exotic vacation, and then like, going and seeing the pyramids and like I was saying earlier today, like drinking champagne on top of the pyramids ran like that ended up funding like Howard Carter’s original finding of King Tut and then justifying European countries going into Egypt and taking some of their artifacts, to capitalize off of themselves.

BOB NENNINGER: So it’s funny, as far as Orientalism is concerned, it reminds me of a scene in Indiana Jones. That is like one of everybody always comes away saying you know, think it was so cool or whatever, but when he is trying to fight his way out of the, the–that sort of the bizarre the the, the area wherever the you know, sort of like the labyrinth of the city where all the people that people are selling their wares and everything yeah

Throwing baskets over and they’re hiding in baskets and they’re trying to run away from the bad guys. But one of the bad guys comes out to be this big this heavyset guy and he he’s almost like the guy that’s going to stop Indiana Jones and he pulls out his giant machete or it’s this giant sword and he starts throwing it or flipping it around in his hands and everything and he starts doing this elaborate, elaborate display of domination. Yeah, as opposed to you know, Indiana Jones just kind of looks at him and pulls out his gun and shoots them dead.

NENNINGER: Yeah

BOB NENNINGER: walks away like you’re sort of means nothing to me because I’m an American with a gun.  And that to me was like, especially viewed in today’s world versus the 1980s when this was made it’s like it’s clearly this whole like you know, our guns are our power, you are less than us. Yeah, cuz we’re so crafty. And we have ultimately this weapon. It just it seemed like a condescending scene. But everybody at the time used to high five and think that was like,wasn’t that great.

[Musical Transition]

NENNINGER: So I don’t have enough time to include all of my conversation that I had with my dad. But he does highly recommend visiting Egypt, if you ever have the chance, he talks very fondly about the culture, and specifically about Aswan. So if you ever get the chance, apparently visit Aswan.

It’s important that we take a step back from the past and reanalyze some of the problematic mistakes that occurred so that we can be aware of some of them in the future. These aesthetics are so prevalent in our modern day world our past just rubs off on fashion of today, as style is often just a new interpretation of the past. Although the 20s were aesthetically very beautiful, there is still value in acknowledging the origins of some of the aesthetics and why they came from where they were taken. For more on a look on this, let’s see some of the modern day use of tomb iconography.

Part Five: Modern Day (00:35:58)

[Musical Transition]

Um, so now like transitioning into like modern times now how much of this, like, iconography Do you still see playing out in the modern world today?

THOMPSEN: So I definitely think it may, of course sort of have stemmed in like the 1800s and early 1900s, but we’ll still see it now. The Art Deco, for sure. Even a few years ago, I was driving in Chicago, and just like noticed that on one of the, I think it was like one of the Loyola Marymount in Chicago, I’m not positive, but driving by it and noticing I think, also like the wings scarab or something like this, and different Egyptian elements. and that was when I was earlier in my studies, I was a Masters student then and kind of didn’t know much about, or, didn’t think much about, like Egyptomania and stuff like that. And so it’s sort of, I realized that a lot of stuff we probably don’t even notice, but it was, you know, taken from like, the Egyptian, ancient Egyptian visual culture. A lot of things, a lot of like, national monuments have Egyptian influence, again, things you don’t think about particular architectural styles, you know, in the US and Europe.That is still like something that you would see today.

Sort of outside of like, well, I’m also thinking about film, of course, that’s like something like the Gods of Egypt movie came out a few years ago. The new like, of course, we have the mummy from the 90s with Brendan Fraiser. And even earlier they, you know, the first mummy movie I think was like in the 1930s. But in a lot of movies, you get sort of, of course, they’re using like, you’ll go into an ancient Egyptian tomb and it’s super like hyper stylized and sort of reimagined.

And, but certainly that is still incredibly popular. And they still this is only again sort of tangentially related to just like the physical tomb itself, but I know they have like cults of ISIS like the goddess Isis, and that still I know like even like people are still doing that. So definitely, I think it’s just like in a lot of our visual culture that we don’t even, you know, always think about.

I’m trying to think of anything else in specific. I definitely think jewelry though. Now again, I’ve noticed based off of again, things that you would see within a tomb specifically usually like the Scarab or a Sphynx which you know, might be depicted in a tomb or you’ll have like a physical statue of it. I’ve noticed, like, little jewelry like a necklace and it’ll have like, even if it’s like supposed to not be super ostentatious like they’ll still do the same to learning style, something like that. So yeah.

NENNINGER: I know I totally didn’t notice all of the like Egyptian iconography that’s inspired from just like random popular stores now like during my seminar now I’ve been making eye contact with this, like, triangle shaped statue out in my room forever and it looks like the Eye of Horus.

THOMPSEN: Oh, yeah. Oh, that’s a great one. Like people, I totally missed out on that. I forgot about that. But yeah, people love that. I noticed that on like, like, bracelets, anklets, shirts, things like this, where, you know, you might have seen it, like on a tomb wall. And now it’s like, just like, it’s just manufactured like a like, whatever. Hmm, like, have a shirt with something like that on it. So yeah.

NENNINGER: Um, do you have any final points that you want to make any closing?

THOMPSEN: I guess my only final closing point is if there’s any Egyptologist that ever listened to this. I have over generalized a lot, but I think that it sort of gets the general you know, the main thing points across. Um, and yeah, I have can’t think of any final points. But if you ever get the chance go visit you just and you can go visit a lot of these tombs, so then you can see them in person. Okay.

NENNINGER: It was great talking with you.

THOMPSEN: Thank you so much for having me. It was fun to chat during this global pandemic.

NENNINGER: Definitely!

NENNINGER: So Egyptomania may not be as prevalent as it was in the 20th and 19th centuries, but the remnants of these cultures still remained to this day. In 2018 Chanel’s Metier d’Art show centered around Egyptian iconography specifically inspired by the findings within Tut’s tomb and the Art Deco movement that followed.17 The show was set around the temple of Dendur in the Met, and the models walked around it on a catwalk. The show got a lot of negative criticism due to some of the Western influence on the show rather than a genuine influence of ancient Egyptian art. It toasts the balance between cultural appropriation and appreciation. On the one hand, it brings to light some of the collections of Egyptian art, yet on the other hand, it shouldn’t be labeled as an Egyptian line. The designer is German and it took place in America, but as inspired by the ancient kingdom.

Looking at most of the show, many of the designs are in head to toe gold and the similar style that idealizes Egypt, others completely neutral and despite the Egyptian influence, most of the silhouettes are not similar to what Egyptians were actually wearing, but rather an interpretation of the themes and colors seen on the reliefs, and in the tombs.

Most of the models have some form of gold earring, headpiece, or collar,

and the clothing pieces feature long dresses, golden boots and blazers with coats that reach the calf. Furthermore, most of the sets look like Gucci two pieces which kind of whitewashes the nature of the show. I believe this show is kind of indicative of the way that Egypt has been accepted into our mainstream culture today. It was so prevalent throughout the 1800s and early 1900s, that the somewhat colonialist depictions of Egypt are what are a part of our culture. We accept the inaccurate media about ancient Egypt that prevails over popular culture because it has been so normalized.

            Part Six: Conclusion (00:42:12)

[Musical Transition]

So how do tombs tie this all together? Well, I think that the obsession with Egypt in the Western world is ultimately tied to Egyptian tombs and mythology. The tombs to the Ancient Egyptians contain the secrets to a successful journey to the afterlife. And when Europeans came into Egypt and saw the art and architecture wildly different than their own, they wanted to both be associated with it, as it was such a long lasting kingdom with beautiful art and culture, and also to unlock the so called secrets of these tombs. Also most of our media containing Ancient Egypt can be tied back to the tombs. Pyramids were tombs, fashion and art emulating the aspective style was found in tombs, horror stories traced to mummies are found in tombs, and furniture and jewelry, inspired by the findings of Tut’s tomb is just that inspired by a tomb. Furthermore, there’s this pervading idea that ancient Egypt was this eternal dynasty, a dynasty that seemingly conquered death by immortalizing. Its kings and people in the afterlife, and a dynasty that managed to preserve the homes of their dead.

Also the fact that many of the big monuments within Egypt are tombs contributes to the Association of Egypt with death. When European Egyptologist were travelling into Egypt and the pyramids were literally towering over them it might have been easy to generalize and assume that the Egyptians were obsessed with death. Now the Egyptians were certainly fascinated with death, but it would be wrong to label them in this two dimensional light. Combined with the fact that much of Egyptian history was a mystery at the time, the European fascination may have started from the mysterious facade of ancient Egypt, combined with its association with death. Ultimately, I believe that the orientalist views of ancient Egypt that still pervade modern media can be tied to the initial reactions of Europeans to ancient Egyptian tombs, and the ways that their original view of Egypt was spread across the western world

And on that note, thank you for tuning in to this episode of Now as Then! I hope that I gave you guys some insight into the era and to some of the tombs of ancient Egypt. A special thanks to our interviewee, Kylie Thompson, Deidre Whitmore for helping us figure out all of our recording audio, Martin Brennan for helping us with copyright. Simon Lee, Jet Jacobs, and Katherine Kapsidelis for helping us with research and of course, our wonderful instructor, Robyn Price, for helping us put together this project. I’d also love to remind you to check out the podcasts of my peers for more now as then content and this is Sophie Nenninger signing out! Peace!

Bard, Kathryn A. “The Egyptian Predynastic: A Review of the Evidence.” Journal of Field Archaeology, vol. 21, no. 3, 1994, pp. 265–288. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/530331. Accessed 17 May 2020.

Benderitter, Thierry. “Temple of Sethy I .” Tombs of Ancient Egypt, www.osirisnet.net/monument/temple_sethy/e_temple_sethy.htm.

Bowles, Hamish. “Chanel Pre-Fall 2019 Fashion Show.” Vogue, Vogue, 17 Dec. 2018, www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/pre-fall-2019/chanel/slideshow/collection#9.

Briefel, Aviva. “Hands of Beauty, Hands of Horror: Fear and Egyptian Art at the Fin De Siècle.”  Victorian Studies, vol. 50, no. 2, 2008, pp. 263–271. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/40060325. Accessed 16 May 2020.

Brier, Bob. “Napoleon IN EGYPT.” Archaeology, vol. 52, no. 3, 1999, pp. 44–53. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/41779247. Accessed 27 May 2020.

Elliott, Bridget. “Art Deco Worlds in a Tomb: Reanimating Egypt in Modern(Ist) Visual Culture.” South Central Review, vol. 25, no. 1, 2008, pp. 114–135. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/40040022. Accessed 4 May 2020.

Goetz, H. “An Irruption of Gothic Style Forms into Indo-Islamic Architecture.” Artibus Asiae, vol. 22, no. 1/2, 1959, pp. 53–58. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3249143. Accessed 11 June 2020.

“Heart Scarab of Hatnefer.” Metmuseum.org, www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/545146.

Mitchell, Rebecca N. “Death Becomes Her: The Progressive Potential of Victorian Mourning.” Victorian Literature and Culture, vol. 41, no. 4, 2013, pp. 595–620., www.jstor.org/stable/24575727. Accessed 16 May 2020.

Mojsov, Bojana. “The Ancient Egyptian Underworld in the Tomb of Sety I: Sacred Books of Eternal Life.” The Massachusetts Review, vol. 42, no. 4, 2001, pp. 489–506. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/25091798. Accessed 16 Apr. 2020.

Pae, Taavi, et al. “The Formation and Location Features of Estonian Cemeteries.” Journal of Baltic Studies, vol. 37, no. 3, 2006, pp. 277–297. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/43212724. Accessed 27 May 2020.

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Shelley, Percy Bysshe. “Ozymandias.” Gleeditions, 17 Apr.

“West Cemetery.” West Cemetery – Highgate Cemetery, highgatecemetery.org/visit/cemetery/west#featurephoto9.

In this episode, we will discuss how Egyptian pyramids have changed as a symbol of power, from mythological and foundational elements in ancient Egypt to a source of commercialization and attraction in modern Egypt. We will also discuss how this change occurred, under the context of Orientalism and cultural appropriation of elements of the pyramids in written sources, as well as in modern replications that alter what they pyramids were meant to represent.

[Sec. 1: Introduction]

DANIEL LEE: Thank you for tuning in. I’m Daniel Lee and you’re listening to Now as Then, where we discuss the ways in which ancient Egypt has shaped many aspects of our history and culture, as well as the world we live in today. In this episode, we examine how the pyramid was not only a symbol of the afterlife and royalty, but actually a highly complex structure that has affected aspects of politics, economy, astronomy, and architecture throughout history.

Pyramids. It’s probably safe to say they’re the archaeological symbol of Egypt. In fact, pyramids have become so representative of Egypt that millions of people still visit the Giza pyramids every year today. It’s certainly quite odd to see the pyramids, which symbolized such political and religious power in the past, now being used as tourist attractions.

Just how have pyramids, which originally served as monumentary tombs, become such symbols of commercialization? To understand the history of the pyramid, and how its value as an icon has changed, we’ll first have to talk about its origins.

[Sec. 2: History and Design]

We start from the long, long past of Egypt, and we’re talking way back, like before the first dynasty of the Old Kingdom even began. Back then, Egypt wasn’t really an organized society, but people still lived in smaller social groups in separated settlements. These early societies carried on their first funerary services near “natural pyramids,” or basically mounds or hills that these people settled near to.1 The traditional notion of pyramids as linked to reaching the sun and thus divinity apparently started from this point, but we’ll talk about that later.

The important thing to take away from this tradition, however, is that the geometric shape of a pyramid eventually became associated with exclusivity to the higher classes of society, as larger natural pyramids were reserved to people of power, such as generals or officials. It’s pretty similar to how we ascribe greater value to things at the top of the pyramid, which is the highest and most exclusive point. Think of whenever you draw a social or a food pyramid. It’s not that strange at all!

Still, man-made pyramids would be constructed several centuries later. J. Donald Fernie’s article “Marginalia: Astronomy And The Great Pyramid” provides great insight into the history of the development of pyramidal design.2 In the article, Fernie states that the first pharaohs of the Old Kingdom weren’t even buried in artificial pyramids, and instead in underground burial chambers called “mastabas,” which were called so because of their resemblance to brick benches in villages of the same name. The transition from rectangular mud mastabas to the more stone-cut and limestone-built pyramids happened rather suddenly, with the first recorded pyramid being the Step Pyramid at Saqqara, also known as the Pyramid of Djoser, the first king of the third dynasty, from the 27th century BCE. In comparison, the Great Pyramid of Giza was only built about a century later! Sadly, a lot of the pyramid building ended by the 6th dynasty of Egypt, though there was a small revival later when the Kingdom of Kush was in power.

What’s fascinating about these early pyramids is that they weren’t actually simple in their design, but rather used very specific measurements in their construction, which involved components of astronomy. For instance, the Descending Passage in the Great Pyramid of Giza lines up with the celestial north pole. Other theories exist, such as that the 10:9 ratio of the pyramid and its height multiplied is close to the actual speed of light, or that its base lengths divided by its height is close to the mathematical component pi. While these relations are indeed fascinating, it’s important for us to be wary of how much of these relations were truly intended given the scientific limitations, such as the measurement of light, at that time. The opposite is still true, but we’ll talk more about that when we discuss European pyramidology, so stay tuned!

While specific measurements of the pyramid leave some room for argument, pyramids certainly did contain components of architectural complexity. While the initial theories of pyramid construction involved the use of an external ramp in tandem with things like cranes or corkscrew design, modern archaeological evidence actually leads to the conclusion that the pyramids were built using internal ramps constructed within them3 External ramps would still be used, but they would later be stripped to form the inner parts of the pyramids as the build progressed, so that no resources would be wasted. Talk about cannibalism!

Because of their complexity, pyramids also often experienced architectural failures that caused distortions in the overall shape of the pyramids, as seen from Kurt Mendelssohn’s instances of failures in pyramidal architectural designs from his 1971 article.4 Given their size, the majority of the pyramid not forming the inner walls or the exterior can contribute to pressurization, which can lead to the crumbling of the pyramid. The Meidum Pyramid was abandoned mid-construction for this reason, resulting in a step pyramid-like structure, while the Bent Pyramid was altered to form a more stable structure after an initial crumbling. In fact, this is exactly why the pyramid is called bent! When ancient Egyptians rebuilt the pyramid, they made the upper part have a smaller slope, giving it an oddly curvy look.

So why are the history and the design of the pyramids important? Well, it’s important to take note that larger pyramids built during the Old Kingdom, such as the Great Pyramid of Giza, didn’t just take their symbol of power from nothing. Though they differed in complexity, pyramids in Egypt incorporated architectural design as a way of amplifying the various ritual symbols ascribed to their earlier forms of burial mounds, such as elements of the sun and the stars, or even the afterlife. In the next section, we’ll discuss more on how these ritual elements are represented within pyramids, and how they can form an image of “mysticism.”

[Sec. 3: Ritual Functions]

In ancient Egypt, religion was more than just one solid belief. Instead, it was more like a larger belief system that touched on many cult values from various cultures, and attempted to group them together through the use of large ideas represented by major deities. It’s no wonder that each deity has such radically opposing characteristics in each myth. Sometimes, deities could even represent completely opposite ideas. A great example of this is the deity Seth, who is at times regarded as the destroyer of the world, while at times its protector!

One factor that played into unifying cult beliefs was actually through building pyramids. Linked with the representation of wealth and power, pyramids were ritual tombs constructed to commemorate the passing of a figure of authority. It makes sense, then, that the greatest pyramids would be built by those of royalty. Within pyramids, ritual texts combined ideas from different cults as a form of establishing political stability.

The strongest case for this can be seen from pyramid texts on divine conflict. Divine conflict is a recurring theme in ancient Egyptian texts, often representing the real conflicts that took place between nations or religious cults.5 This also meant that they would record stories of royal succession, a hot topic when it comes to conflict in Egypt, through divine representations. One of the most prominent divine conflicts is that between Horus and Seth, the two successors of Osiris following his death. In various written forms, such as the famous Contendings of Horus and Seth, the conflict of royal authority that leads to justification of succession of power becomes the center of the narrative. That might make the story sound like a serious war epic, but it really wasn’t. The Contendings of Horus and Seth was actually more of a comedic twist on the famous conflict, and even involved vulgar actions such as taking Set’s testicles! If you want to hear more  about the myths about Horus and Seth, you can check out Season 1 Episode 4: Falcons and Pharaohs, or more specifically about Seth in Season 2 Episode 1: Seth Apart.

In particular, the physical components of each deity, as in Horus’ eye and Seth’s testicles, serve as symbols of the political struggle through their mutilation throughout the narrative. Hence, the eye of Horus, the victor of the struggle, became the symbol of royal strength and political power in Egypt. In other cases, the identification of Horus with Osiris, the neutral, observing entity, hints to the importance of the concept of order and unification within the narrative of pyramid texts. The trinity of Horus, Osiris, and Isis would also later be used in the Coptic tradition in its emulation of the holy trinity of the Bible, and similarly the three angles of the pyramid as well as the three pyramids at Giza, ascribing greater ritual relevance of the pyramid. If you want to learn more about Isis’ representations in other cultures, or the Cult of Isis, or Coptic depictions of Isis’ motherhood of Horus, you can check our Season 2 Episode 4: The Purpose of Isis or Season 1 Episode 5: Like a Virgin, Madonna and Child, respectively.

Of course, the pyramid also has its more well-known ritual significance in its importance as a passage to the afterlife. As we talked about before, pyramids have long been associated with the divinity, and thus more astral concepts, such as the sun and the sky, which is why pyramids were built with such astronomical calculations in the first place.

This linkage of the pyramidal shape, which points towards the sun, is also found in Mesoamerican pyramids. For instance, Aztecan pyramids, such as the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan, were used as altars for human sacrifice to gods. Interestingly, early Mesoamerican pyramids also served as burial mounds, similar to Egyptian natural pyramids. Here’s a little sneak peek to an upcoming interview with Matei Tichindelean, a first-year archeology student at Cotsen Institute, where he explains why such parallels exist, even when these civilizations existed in completely different time and space, and thus without contact:

MATEI TICHINDELEAN: So pyramids, now I guess if we’re talking about Mesoamerica and Egypt, we first need to make sure that these are two different types of “pyramids.” Mesoamerica is really mounds of Earth that are built up, and then they are usually the outer shell, sometimes of stone. Whereas in Egypt, I guess it depends on what pyramid you’re looking at, but let’s say for example the Great Pyramid—those are the Great Pyramids of Giza—those are all made out of limestone, blocks of limestone. Now, they are also thousands of years apart. The Giza pyramids, the big pyramids of Khufu, the biggest one, the tallest one, that was completed around 2500 BCE, whereas the pyramids in let’s say Tenochtitlan, those were done about 800 AD, if I remember correctly. Don’t quote me directly on that date. But, in the 80s, so at least 2000 years apart. And I think when it comes to pyramids, which you do find different types of pyramids all over the world, there are—it’s one of the easiest ways to stock up dirt, piles of dirt, and form a tall structure and not have it collapse. That’s the key. To not having it collapse. And humans, found out everywhere, well a lot of places, that that is a structure that could support a lot of weight, and it can be built to a pretty significant height. So I think that’s where you find parallels. If you’re talking about the structures of the pyramid, the form of it.

LEE: Egyptian rulers were often held as members of divinity that descended to rule Egypt, so their deaths were taken as their “return” to the celestial kingdom in Egyptian religion, or, in simpler words, ascension to the heavens. Because of their importance to royal authority, pyramids often contained texts that described the process of ascension for royal figures in greater detail.6 Generally, the pharaoh would go through the process of the purification of the soul, which occurs through prayers and spells, and eventually leads to the “ejection of essence,” almost like an astral projection, except it’s permanent. The ejected essence then goes through the general processes of transmission and identification of the soul. In this step, the pharaoh’s soul may be guided by other deities that recognize the pharaoh in the process. Lastly, the soul must pass through the celestial gate and the river behind it, and be recognized by Atum-Re, the first being, in order to be accepted into the heavens. Sounds like an awfully complex way to die!

These texts might sound like disconnected tales that represent different ideas, but they actually paint the same picture! Whether based on unification or ascension, their use of deities gives insight to the religious authority of the ruler of Egypt, tied to their political authority. And because they were also a place to store such knowledge and stories for an exclusive group of priests and nobles, pyramids thus took on the image as a site of religious practice central to Egyptian culture. The image of “mysticism” created by this religious association would later become the source for its cultural representations in other societies.

But before we get to that, let’s quickly go over some of the different functions pyramids had in ancient Egyptian society. The pyramid has multiple sides, after all!

[Sec. 4: Other Social Functions in Ancient Egypt]

While pyramids had great influence in the religion of ancient Egypt, they most certainly had other uses in politics, economics, and society.

As we discussed previously, pyramids had great political significance in bringing order to a fractured nation. Even if religious texts were reserved for people such as priests, nobles, and pharaohs, they still carried the important themes relating to unification within the kingdom. This is especially important since Egypt was a kingdom initially separated into Upper and Lower kingdoms! Pyramids thus allowed these ideas to be carried through multiple generations, becoming a component of Egyptian centralization through the use of identification with diverse ritual images.

Furthermore, pyramids had an important economical function regarding the employment of citizens, as discussed in Mendelssohn’s article. Contrary to popular belief, Egyptian pyramids were not constructed with the use of slaves, but instead mostly through the mass employment of paid and willing workers. Now, I know what you’re thinking. Why waste so many resources on a seemingly pointless and enormous project? Well, the entire process was actually beneficial to ancient Egypt because it prevented unemployment and coincided with the crop cycle of Egypt.

Because of the nature of the annual Nile floods, during Akhet, or the inundation season following the harvest and before the growing of the new crops, many farmers would be left unemployed for several months. Building pyramids provided temporary work for farmers, which consisted of the majority of Egypt’s population, and thus an economic source. In fact, for a considerable period of Egypt this interchanging between occupations became a core of the Egyptian economy, to the point where it became dependent on the activity of pyramid-building, which is why pyramids would often be constructed while the pharaoh was alive, and also why multiple pyramids were built during a pharaoh’s life. For more information on how the Nile flood affected Egyptian society, you can check out Season 2 Episode 2: Journey Down the Nile.

Pyramids also contributed to various social and religious organizations. Archaeological records reveal that in some instances there existed certain “pyramid towns” in between pyramid complexes, which were inhabited by cult members and nobles.7 In particular, written documents such as stelae and excavations of walls around the vicinity of the Nefirirkare’s pyramid strongly suggest the existence of settlements near the pyramid. While the cult was an exclusive group intended for ritual service following the construction of the complex, pyramid towns nevertheless suggest that pyramids encouraged social organization in the form of cult hegemony.

So there you have it. Even if they were initially meant to serve as monumental tombs, pyramids were actually central to many elements of ancient Egypt, defining aspects of its social, economical, and religious organizations. It’s no wonder, then, that pyramids became the symbol of ancient Egypt, not only for their monumental value, but given its impact on ancient Egpytian culture as a whole!

Still, the value of the pyramids lies beyond Egypt, given its inspirations to other civilizations such as ancient Greek, Arabic, and modern European societies, which would inevitably change what it was meant to represent.

[Sec. 5: In Other Cultures]

Pyramids have been a representative icon of Egypt as far back as the early classical era. The earliest written source that accounts the pyramids dates back to about 430 BCE, from Book 2 in Herodotus’ “The History of Herodotus.”8 In it, Herodotus accounts the ongoing construction of the Great Pyramid of Giza at the time, claiming that the entire build took twenty years of labor by about a hundred thousand people, with the construction of the causeway taking ten years. While controversial for his accounts of being in Egypt, the general accuracy of the description of the pyramids does suggest that Herodotus at least took accounts from other Greek travelers, and that Greeks had had, though unwritten, knowledge of pyramids far before the source was written. Greek sources further suggest that monumental structures such as pyramids was one factor that encouraged travel to Egypt by many well-known Greek scholars, such as Solon, Thales, and Plutarch, similar to their value in tourism today.9

Given their place in the Middle East, pyramids also became inspirations for legends in Arabic culture. Take the example of A. Fodor’s article, which introduces three Arabic legends that have their own claims to who built the pyramids: Hermes, Surid, and Shaddad ibn Ad.10 In the tales, Hermes builds the pyramids in order to store the knowledge he gains from God, while Surid and Shaddad ibn Ad build the pyramids in preparation for a catastrophe.  In particular, these three legends have clear biblical connections, with Hermes corresponding to Moses’ acceptance of the testaments, and Surid and Shaddad ibn Ad corresponding to Noah’s building of the ark in preparation for the flood. These legends are instances of the harmonization of beliefs in the Coptic tradition, with tales from the Jewish Bible becoming the basis for Egyptian culture, as well as the acceptance of the religious value of the pyramids by Arabic societies.

Another instance of the development of the Coptic tradition in Egypt can be seen from Masoudi’s “Meadows of Gold and Mines of Gems,” written some time before his death in 956 CE.11 Masoudi provides a Coptic account that Surid built the pyramids to store elements of knowledge, as in the Hermes tales, while the priests explain that the Coptic language, in which the Coptic tradition is built, originated from the syncretism of ancient Egyptian inscriptions in pyramids with the Greek alphabet. Thus, Arabic accounts provide a strong case that Coptic traditions originated from the interaction of foreign culture with the pyramid texts.

While pyramids were certainly influenced under the rule of Greco-Roman and Arabic empires, they underwent another large wave of change following the age of European colonialism. One of the famous stories, though the accuracy of its details is up for debate, is that Napoleon Bonaparte entered the Great Pyramid of Giza. One account, written when Napoleon was still alive, gives a descriptive quote on his exploration of the pyramid, providing insight into the majestic value ascribed by Europeans to the Great Pyramid, much like in the Old Kingdom.12

“He afterwards penetrated into the interior, where he found a passage a hundred feet long and three feet broad, which conducted him by a rapid descent towards the apartments that served as a tomb for Pharaoh, who erected this monument. A second passage, much injured, and leading towards the summit of the pyramid, carried him successively over two platforms and thence to a vaulted gallery, in one of the walls of which the place of a mummy was seen, which was believed to have been the spouse of one of the Pharaohs” (Robertson 73-74).

Along with newfound exploration and settlement into Egypt, modern history introduced the period of Enlightenment, in which European scholars became fascinated in the study of the values held by the pyramid. Primarily, this “pyramidology” founded by western scholars, while rediscovering the mathematical and astronomical factors included in the construction of the pyramids, also contained erroneous assumptions, such as the theory that pyramids were built with slave labor.

These “scientific” elements of the pyramids were thus also manipulated for other purposes, one of which was used to support nationalism.13 John Taylor, a British scholar that continued research from other pyramidologists like Edme-François Jomard and even Sir Isaac Newton, associated the British inch with the Egyptian standard of measurement that was incorporated in the construction of the pyramids. Taylor’s discovery of this “perfect unit” allowed him to be acclaimed by renowned scholars, such as the astronomer Piazzi Smyth and the mathematician Sir John Herschel. The association of the British inch with the pyramids allowed the measurement to be regarded as a divine figure, revealing the extent to which the pyramids were heralded as as a symbol of mysticism by European scholars, as well as the ways in which pyramidology was used to build a divine image of the expanding European empires.

When learning about ancient Egypt, it’s important for us to take into account how we’re influenced by these assumptions, which are more often based on coincidence than archaeological evidence! Such “theories” undermine the technology of ancient Egypt, denying the possibility of carrying such knowledge, and often lead to conclusions that radically differ from what is found from ancient records. One such theory even goes as far as to suggest that Egyptian pyramids were built by aliens! Clearly, we need to take on how our views of the ancient world, and the colonialist views towards Egyptian civilizations shape our beliefs. Take it away, Matei!

TICHINDELEAN: So I guess I’ll introduce myself. My name is Matei Tichindelean, I’m a first-year archaeology student here in the Cotsen Institute, but I study Egyptology. I’ve dug in Egypt a few times, in a tomb in a temple site. I’ve dug in the American Southwest, and Roman sites in Romania as well.

LEE: So pyramids have also been—have been assigned a lot of religious value. So were pyramids ever used for religious reasons outside of their original construction? Like how the famous Hagia Sophia was remodeled to fit the Islamic empire that conquered it?

TICHINDELEAN: That’s a good question. And are we just talking here about the Egyptian pyramids, or are we talking about pyramids in general?

LEE: I’m talking mostly about how Egyptian pyramids might have been, like, religiously appropriated by—culturally appropriated by a different civilization.

TICHINDELEAN: So yeah, they definitely have religious connotations when it comes to ancient Egypt. And those for the most part remain the same but it changed slightly, for example after the completion of the 4th dynasty pyramids, the big ones in Giza, people continued to build pyramids, but they also built smaller ones, and temples to the sun that had a component that was a pyramid. I guess you could also look at, later on, private tombs, so elites in ancient Egypts could also build a smaller pyramid over the entrance to their tomb, which again has a religious connotation. But in terms of them being appropriated for other religious purposes, I mean, I can speak to the Islamic history in Egypt, because I’m not an expert in that, for a little bit, but look at nowadays, there are different spiritual traditions that are more modern, like Kemeticism, for example, that have close connections to ancient Egypt. Kemet being the ancient Egyptian name for the land of Egypt. So there’s this whole Egyptomania that started up mid-1800s, with Napoleon’s invasion of Egypt, where it spread throughout Europe especially. And pyramid-building in itself got incorporated with a lot of Christian—I don’t want to say Christian traditions—but in Christian cemeteries you see pyramids as a symbol of eternity, of enduring, of life. So it’s something that has been, because it’s so imposing, it has been incorporated in many different types of outlooks. But, yeah, I guess then it depends on what you mean by religion, because they all have some kind of symbolic meaning to it, that you could interpret as a religion. Kemeticism, people who have practiced that believe it’s—I mean, they could describe it as a form of religion.

LEE: So, in that case, in what ways could Egyptian pyramids have been affected by its portrayal in western media, or in cultural representations in general that may have altered its meaning?

TICHINDELEAN: I mean, I think when people think of Egypt, one of the first things they think about is the pyramids. That and maybe mummies, right. But as we have seen from the 2016 presidential election, I think that was one of the things that was brought up by a presidential candidate—I can’t remember his name now—Carson?

LEE: Ben Carson?

TICHINDELEAN: Yes, yes. Ben Carson suggested that the pyramids had a different function, that they had, if you remember, he said that they’re more like granaries. We don’t really have any evidence to show any of that. I mean, there are different chambers inside of it, and a typical thing that you would have in an Egyptian funeral, which is what a pyramid is, it’s a tomb, it’s actually a, more correctly, it’s a regeneration machine. Some Egyptologists describe it as a regeneration machine. Yeah, I’m going off on a tangent here. But yeah, in terms of western culture I think they have been associated again, starting in the mid-1800s, with this spiritualistic kind of Orientalist, almost, idea of people being connected to the ancestors, or at least people in that area, or people in the past being closer to nature. But I think one of the most damaging ways that western media specifically has been, interacting with pyramids, it would be probably the History show Ancient Aliens, which for many different reasons, well, I’m sure you probably know, one of the claims says that they were built by aliens, which is very problematic, in my opinion, it implies that it actually has a long history of these kinds of claims that started off when the Europeans first started visiting Egypt, about how their culture could not be “advanced enough” to build something like this, so therefore it must be something else. It must be something that is out of this world. Because only white people build beautiful things, like Norte Dame or, I don’t know, Eiffel Tower, or any cathedrals in Europe. People in this era could not have built it. So shows like that, I think, do a great disservice, never mind about history, but to the portrayal of people from that region, ancient and modern.

LEE: Well, given its regard for its symbol of mysticity, what are some other ways that pyramids have become cultural icons outside of Egypt?

TICHINDELEAN: I brought up the fact that they started to become incorporated as a symbol of eternity, especially in Christian burials, and I think you see that a lot in England especially, where it first started. I mean, if you see public buildings, for example I did my masters at the University of Liverpool, and all buildings there have little sphinxes and pyramids on top of them, because that was the architectural style, this Orientalist style that was popular in the early 1900s. And then we got it, again, incorporated into Christian burials, kind of the headstones in the shape of the pyramids or obelisks, to signify this enduring, I guess, memory, in cases of cemeteries. Or you have it on the dollar bill, right. It’s a symbol of—well actually I’m not exactly a hundred percent sure what it is—but I think it has to do with the masons, the Freemasons, so these secret societies again incorporated these ancient symbols to perhaps give themselves a more credible heritage, them being ancient societies that had knowledge passed down from thousands of years ago. That’s some of the ways that I could think about right now.

LEE: Alright, could you tell us other instances of pyramid-building outside of Egypt that people may not have heard about?

TICHINDELEAN: Yeah, I mean, the amazing structures, and I guess pyramids or mounds, however you may want to call it here in America, at Cahokia, next to St. Louis, for example. I mean I think the base of that is way bigger than the Great Pyramid, the base of it, not in terms of the height, but the base of it. And in terms of manpower and work that went into it, it was probably equivalent. I mean again, as I said, these are the most stable structures to build, so there are, for example, even in the South Pacific, there is some evidence of pyramid building, that means stones being kind of stacked. They’re not as big as the ones in Egypt or Mesoamerica, but again, if we’re talking about pyramids, it depends how you would define a pyramid. If you’re talking about the shape, then you have many instances throughout history where you can see that.

LEE: That’s all the questions I’ve got. Do you have anything else you might want to say to whoever’s listening to the podcast?

TICHINDELEAN: In terms of, I guess, pyramid-building, there is a huge history spanning almost 2000 years within Egypt itself, of pyramid-building, and that continues not only in Egypt, actually. The country with the most pyramids is Sudan. They’re smaller than the ones in Egypt, but the most surviving pyramids will be in Sudan. And they have been incorporated from an early on tradition in Egyptian history as a symbol of power and of regeneration that in order to really understand, even within these periods in Egyptian history what they mean, you have to look at them in specific contexts. So, you know, perhaps a pyramid that was built in, let’s say, 400 AD in Nubia, did not have exactly the same meaning to that person that built it, as the Great Pyramid, whether we’re talking about religious or really maybe—I mean they were both in a way tombs, but, yeah.

LEE: Okay, I think that pretty much wraps up the interview, then. Thank you for your time, Matei.

TICHINDELEAN: Yeah, no problem.

LEE: As long as Egypt has been a subject of foreign written history, it has also clearly been a subject of cultural appropriation. In this section, we saw how identification, assumption, and manipulation of elements of the pyramid each altered the image of ancient Egypt as it became represented in other cultures. Certain aspects would be emphasized, while others would be underrepresented. As we transition into the modern world, pyramids certainly change in what they represent in society, and we can attribute that change to these cases of appropriation!

[Sec. 6: Modern Identity and Conclusion]

The pyramid in modern society continues to be taken as a symbol of mysticism, often in an exaggerated form from that of the early classical period. In one such case, Semir Osmanagic, a Bosnian museum director, claims certain natural hills to be the “largest man-made pyramids” in history! The media attention taken on by the site reveals the existing fervor over the mystical identity of the pyramid, as well as the extent of the harm that pseudoarchaeology can do to official archaeology. A more well-known instance of false information contributing to the legacy of the pyramids is in the case of the Illuminati, which is associated with conspiracy theories of secret societies such as the Freemasons. You can even see the famous icon of the Eye of Providence contained within the pyramid on the back of your one-dollar bill!

Pyramids today have also been associated with power or authority, and continue to be built for reasons similar to that of its original construction. In modern context, the pyramidal design is also linked with commercialization, given the iconic value of the symbol. Many famous examples of modern pyramids can be found in major cities in the U.S., such as Luxor Las Vegas, which serves as both a hotel and casino, and the Memphis Pyramid, which was originally an arena but now serves as a location for Bass Pro Shops. Though smaller in size, the art museum of Louvre in Paris is another well known example that incorporates the pyramid into a design.

From simple burial mounds to the Great Pyramid of Giza, pyramids throughout history may have varied in design, but all of them have nonetheless spawned continuous discussions about their religious and social importances, as well as their influences to other societies in Europe and the Middle East. Even today, pyramids continue to make their legacy in the modern world, as an embodiment of cultism and power.

So to answer the question, how have we changed in our interpretation of the pyramid, throughout the four and a half plus millennia that they’ve existed in? Well, we’ve seen how in both the ancient and the modern worlds, pyramids have acted as icons of power. In ancient Egypt, pyramids were built in order to guide those in power to the afterlife, often ascribing them to divinity. Pyramids were also important to ancient Egyptian society as a whole, carrying many economic and social functions. However, we’ve also seen how over time representations of pyramids in other cultures have caused the cultural importance of the pyramids to be diluted, and rather emphasize its religious functions to the point of exaggeration. Modern representations rather use the pyramidal structure as a point of attraction, and a source of commercialization, due to its distorted representation from Egypt’s history of cultural appropriation.

Still, another way to look at this is that the pyramid has still survived as an icon of authority and fascination over ancient history that humans have tried to emulate ever since, no matter how much it may have changed as a symbol. The original builders of the pyramid may be gone now, but the pyramid still exists!

This episode concludes Season 2 of Now as Then! If you’re interested in more content like this, make sure to check out other episodes of Now as Then, and you can read in greater detail from this episode’s bibliography. Shout-out to Deidre Whitmore of Digital Archaeology Lab Cotsen Institute, Simon Lee, Katherine Kapsidelis, Jet Jacobs of Library Special Collections, and Martin Brennan of Scholarly Communication Education for making this podcast possible, and special thanks to Matei Tichindelean for this episode’s interview.

Otherwise, thank you for listening, and stay safe!

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