NTS Don't Assume with Zakia

A short-sighted librarian who prides herself on being responsible, reliable and getting home early, Anne ‘Susan’ Cadogan might have been a surprising match for the legendary producer Lee ‘Scratch’ Perry.  But it was her version of Hurt So Good, produced by Scratch in 1975, that saw Susan catapult to fame. As the song rose up the UK charts, Susan found herself on a flight out of Jamaica and booked to appear on Top of the Pops. 

It was her first brush with pop stardom but Susan was determined to do it her way. She refused to wear the revealing clothes pushed by the costume department, refused their choreographed dance moves, and barely wore any make up. Her performance remains one of the most arresting of the time,  foreshadowing the arrival of the Lovers Rock scene. 

Susan is a brilliant storyteller.  In this interview with Zakia she discusses her split personality between Anne, the dedicated librarian, and Susan, the performer, the early days of the Black Ark studio, passing the chalice with John Holt, and whether there might be love on the cards with the original writer of Hurt So Good. 

Like many Jamaican performers, Susan never received any royalties for Hurt So Good. She discusses her frustrations around the music industry but how she still holds our hope for a cheque in the post. Despite that and the physical challenges of older age, Susan is still performing. In this sparkling interview Susan proves herself to be equal parts steely and sweet. Watch out toyboys.

Presenter - Zakia Sewell 

Producer - Alannah Chance 

Music composition - Jennifer Walton

Mix-Mastering - Sol King 

Exec Producer - Lizzy King for NTS

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jamal Moss has been making music in Chicago under the moniker Hieroglyphic Being since 1994. His music is deeply rooted in the influential house and techno scenes of the city but also draws on the avant-garde and jazz. His music is both dark and transcendent, mechanical and organic. 

In this interview he unpacks the origins of these dualities, describing how he was raised by his adopted parents on the city’s jazz greats but discovered dance music in the club aged 12 after being brought along by an uncle who had business to attend to. Too young to enter the building, the young Jamal felt the vibrations from outside, and he was hooked. 

In this frank interview we learn about his early days running club nights in Chicago, how his adopted father’s position in the Masons gave him certain insight on the inner workings of the city, his unapologetic days as a gigolo and his rejection of the term AfroFuturist.  Oh and he also dabbles in nanotechnology. 

Hieroglyphic Being makes music to serve humanity, and when he’s not doing that you’ll find him throwing avocados at squirrels. Don’t Assume. 

This interview was recorded at the end of 2023, and includes music with generous permission from Hieroglyphic Being. 

Tracks in order:

Hieroglyphic Being - The Flying Men of Zimbabwe

Hieroglyphic Being - The Language of Strings

Hieroglyphic Being - The Mystery of the Rose

Hieroglyphic Being - Being Awake and Energize

Hieroglyphic Being - THANKS FOR THE TRACKS U LOST

Hieroglyphic Being - Fuck the Ghetto, think about outer space

Discover Hieroglyphic Being on NTS [https://www.nts.live/artists/2391-hieroglyphic-being]

Presenter - Zakia Sewell 

Producer - Alannah Chance 

Recording - Si Richards

Music composition - Jennifer Walton

Mix-Mastering - Sol King 

Exec Producer - Lizzy King for NTS

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the 1960s Vashti Bunyan burned all her possessions, saddled up a horse and cart and set off for Donovan’s Scottish island with her boyfriend. So far, so pastoral. But Vashti’s story is not a counter cultural fantasy, and Vashti is not the folksy heroine people assume she is.

Vashti was born in 1945 in Newcastle, named after a rebel queen from Persia and she lives up to her namesake’s reputation. The singer-songwriter started out with ambitions to be a popstar, but was quickly disillusioned by the music industry. After releasing a few singles which fell on deaf ears, she set out on her now infamous horse-drawn journey to Donovan’s commune on the Hebrides. Along the way she wrote her debut album, Just Another Diamond Day.  It was largely ignored on release but when it was re-issued in 2000 it gained a cult following and is now considered a psych-folk classic, lauded for its delicate beauty, even though folk was never a genre Vashti related to. 

In this real meeting of minds, Vashti and Zakia talk about Vashti’s punk approach to quiet music, her experience of being rejected from a class on music technology for being ‘too old’ and the importance of dreaming for a better future. It’s fair to say that Vashti continues to do things her own way and her own, softly-spoken version of a rebel queen. 

Discover Vashti Bunyan on NTS

Presenter - Zakia Sewell 

Producer - Alannah Chance 

Music composition - Jennifer Walton

Mix-Mastering - Sol King 

Exec Producer - Lizzy King for NTS

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Bedroom producer turned global club-pop icon Kathy Yaeji Lee, better known as Yaeji, is our guest this week. Yaeji self-identifies as an “introspective loner” and was raised between New York and Seoul. In this interview she reflects on how her upbringing has influenced the music she makes today: whether that’s listening to her dad’s mixtapes of Korean indie ballads, finding community in internet forums or getting into the brostep scene for her radio show in Pittsburgh. She started out DJing and later became a producer, known for her introspective yet danceable beats, and vocals which swing between Korean and English. 

Where some of our Don’t Assume guests struggle to think of any surprising hobbies outside of music, Yaeji was spoiled for choice. She’s a prolific journaler, with multiple journals on the go at any one time. She’s also into fibre art, where she collects fibres from across the world and weaves them into yarn to knit or crochet into fabric. Whilst this sounds like a departure from the songs featured on albums like With A Hammer, it all feels like a continuum of Yaeji’s lifelong process of observing, gathering and reassembling the multiple facets of her identity to create something new. 

Discover Yaeji on NTS

Presenter - Zakia Sewell 

Producer - Alannah Chance 

Music composition - Jennifer Walton

Mix-Mastering - Sol King 

Exec Producer - Lizzy King for NTS

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thundercat doesn’t follow the rules. From his tattoo of the word NO, to his genre-bending playing and extensive collection of cat hair, he's an artist who keeps us guessing and is the perfect guest for Don’t Assume. 

The bassist, singer, and producer has become a key figure in the West Coast jazz, funk, and R&B scene alongside the likes of Kamasi Washington and Flying Lotus. Known for his virtuoso playing and falsetto voice, Thundercat actually cut his teeth playing bass in the thrash metal band Suicidal Tendencies. He traces a line from there to the psychedelic, jazz-infused R&B that he’s loved for today, as he and Zakia discuss being the weird kids in school, how all musicians want to be comedians and his quest for extra pickles. 

Thundercat has benefited from some incredible collaborators along the way including Kamasi Washington, Mac Miller, Erykah Badu, Flying Lotus and Kenrick Lamar, here he reflects on the impact they’ve had on his career. He’s a mercurial talent, and over the course of the interview he dances between references, funny asides and reflections on grief, all grounded in what is clearly a sincere love and respect for music. 

Discover Thundercat on NTS

Presenter - Zakia Sewell

Producer - Alannah Chance

Recording - Sophie Ellison

Music composition - Jennifer Walton

Mix-Mastering - Sol King

Exec Producer - Lizzy King for NTS

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Diamanda Galás is one of a kind. The Greek-American artist is known for her uncompromising approach and singular, multi-octave voice. Her work often channels the pain of the dispossessed, giving emotionally charged performances that explore subjects like the AIDS crisis, the Greek-Armenian genocides and experiences of grief. But she is equally at home singing jazz standards and blues songs. We couldn’t think of a better artist to launch this series of Don’t Assume, a podcast which reveals the sorts of things you’d never expect from our favourite artists.

In this lively conversation, Zakia and Diamanda travel across the expanse of Diamanda’s wide ranging career, discussing everything from her collaboration with John Paul Jones, the influence of her strict father, her mistrust of the term “avant-garde” and her love of forensic TV shows. 

Diamanda is equal parts deeply serious and acerbically funny, swinging between reflecting on her regrets to lacerating the ‘bubble gum crap’ of the Beatles. This interview feels like a true meeting of minds, and a chance to see both sides of this formidable artist, truly someone who embodies the spirit of this new series of ‘Don’t Assume’.

Discover Diamanda Galás on NTS

Presenter - Zakia Sewell 

Producer - Alannah Chance 

Music composition - Jennifer Walton

Mix-Mastering - Sol King 

Exec Producer - Lizzy King for NTS

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lisa Maffia came to prominence in the early 2000s as the only woman in So Solid Crew, the platinum selling UK Garage act from South London that took over the UK mainstream. 

Lisa joins Zakia in the NTS studio in London to reflect on Lisa’s younger years and the early days of So Solid Crew, through to Lisa’s solo career. Lisa and Zakia discuss the highs and lows of So Solid’s journey, which took them from DIY pirate radio to the Brit Awards and countless other accolades. Along the way they drew criticism from the British press, and they fell victim to the Metropolitan Police’s punitive 696 form, which all but shut down their scene. In this Don’t Assume interview, Zakia and Lisa celebrate the lasting legacy of UK Garage and its celebration of Black Britishness. 

Presenter - Zakia Sewell, Producer - Lizzy King, Sound Recording - Fabrice Robinson, Editing - Femi Oriogun-Williams, Composer - Jennifer Walton, Talent & Outreach - Samuel Strang. 

This is an NTS Podcast, discover more at www.nts.live.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mark Mothersbaugh is the co-founder and lead singer of iconic American new-wave band, Devo. As the band embark on a global tour, Mark and Zakia reflect on the first 50 years of Devo and they speculate on what the next 50 years of the band will look like. 

Mark recalls some of his successful moments of subversion; placing subliminal messages into soda commercials and his other film and TV commissions. 

This Don’t Assume conversation serves as a rallying call to mutate, not stagnate. 

Presenter - Zakia Sewell, Producer - Lizzy King, Sound Recording - Jennifer Walton, Editing - Femi Oriogun-Williams, Composer - Jennifer Walton, Talent & Outreach - Samuel Strang. 

This is an NTS Podcast, discover more at www.nts.live.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lloyd ‘Bullwackie’ Barnes and his legendary Wackie’s institution has been at the heart of the dub and reggae scene since the 1970s. 

Starting out as a tailor to reggae’s brightest stars, Bullwackie quickly started working as an engineer at Treasure Isle and Studio One studios in Kingston, Jamaica. On moving to New York with his family he became immersed in the burgeoning reggae and dub scene briefly running his own soundsystem. Bullwackie opened up the first reggae studio in New York, Wackie’s House of Music. 

Since Wackie’s was founded in 1976, Bullwackie has produced and released records with the likes of Sugar Minnott, Lee Scratch Perry, The Love Joys, Horace Andy, Max Romeo, Dennis Brown, and - as Zakia discovers - even impromptu sessions with the likes of Mohammed Ali. After enjoying a resurgence of interest in more recent times, following a reissue series via Mark Ernestus and Moritz von Oswald’s Basic Channel dub techno label, Wackie’s today enjoys multi-generational cult status.

In this podcast Zakia and Bullwackie reflect on his life and career, and the exciting discovery of his stolen archive of unreleased Wackie’s recordings that Lloyd has recently recovered, and is now in the process of mastering, in some cases nearly 50 years after they were first recorded. 

Check out the NTS Guide To Wackie’s

Presenter - Zakia Sewell, Producer - Lizzy King, Sound Recording - Josh Farmer & Zara Wladawsky, Editing - Femi Oriogun-Williams, Mastering - Felix Stock, Composer - Jennifer Walton, Talent & Outreach - Samuel Strang. 

This is an NTS Podcast, discover more at www.nts.live.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.