NUN Local: Netherthorpe, Upperthorpe and Neepsend News Podcast podcast

December 01, 2024 #4 Cost-of-living special with Emma Taylor from the Cost of Living Support Hub at Sheffield City Council

Given the time of year, it's getting colder, and given the situation we're in, where many, many people are finding it harder and harder to afford even the basics, and we are in the midst of a cost of living situation where even people who are doing relatively well are feeling the pinch, I thought I would dedicate the December episode entirely to a conversation with Emma Taylor from the Cost of Living Support Hub at Sheffield City Council.

We talk about a lot of things in this interview, including how it's important that cost of living support isn't just a sticking plaster solution to somebody's immediate crisis, but in fact looks at wider issues and helps them to sort out their money problems in the longer term.

We talk about debt, we talk about heating, we talk about food, and we talk about Christmas and how to deal with Christmas when money is tight.

And then we talk about how people who are not struggling can help.

Links mentioned

* Around 4 in 10 adults (41%) who pay energy bills said it was very or somewhat difficult to afford them

* Between May 2021 and May 2024, UK consumer prices increased by 20.8% in total

* More than 3.1 million emergency food parcels were distributed by Trussell’s community of food banks in the past 12 months – the most parcels ever distributed in a year and nearly double the number compared to five years ago

* There was a 61 per cent increase in applications for cost-of-living grants at the University of Sheffield, rising from 5,926 in the 2022-23 academic year to 9,593 in 2023-24.

* Rent in Sheffield rose nine per cent over the past year

* Cost of living support hub

* Welcome spaces in Sheffield

* Citizens Advice Sheffield

* Energy Affordability Helpline: 0800 448 0721

* National Energy Action

* Christians against Poverty

* Partnership to End Poverty

* LEAP appliances

* Green Doctor

* Housing Solutions (homelessness help)

* YES Warmer Homes Advice line

* Food Works Upperthorpe (aka Zest cafe)

* S6 Food Bank

* Age UK Sheffield

* National Databank and data poverty highlighted in O2 Christmas campaign

* National Debtline

* Buy Now! The Shopping Conspiracy - Netflix

Transcript

Philippa Willitts:

Welcome to the December 2024 episode of NUN Local, the podcast for and about Netherthorpe, Upperthorpe and Neepsend.

We talk about debt, we talk about heating, we talk about food, and we talk about Christmas and how to deal with Christmas when money is tight.

And then we talk about how people who are not struggling can help.

All the links we mention are on the website at nunlocal.news, so head over there if you think any of them sound like somewhere that could help you.

So here's the interview with Emma.

This year, about 4 in 10 adults who pay energy bills say it was difficult to afford them.

UK consumer prices increased 20% between May 21 and May 24.

The Trussell Trust have distributed 3.1 million emergency food parcels in the last 12 months, which is the most they've ever distributed in a year.

The University of Sheffield found a 61% increase in applications for cost of living grants.

Rent in Sheffield has risen 9% in the past year.

There is a lot going on with regard to the cost of living crisis and as we are in winter and people will be even more worried about their fuel bills.

Today I am speaking to Emma Taylor, who is the partnerships and engagement lead for Sheffield City Council's cost of living support hub.

Emma, thank you for coming on the podcast.

Emma Taylor:

Thank you for having me, Philippa.

Philippa Willitts:

So, in Netherthorpe, Upperthorpe and Neepsend, there is poverty with related health and social issues.

In your work, what issues are you finding that people are facing with the cost of living as we go into winter this year?

Emma Taylor:

Well, to another stat to add to your summary is that one in four residents are found to be in poverty in our city.

So this is in Sheffield specifically, and in the sense of what people are facing with going into winter this year, I think it's fair to say that everybody is impacted by the cost of living in one way or another.

And I think before, as it always has been, it's always been a priority for supporting more vulnerable members and residents of our city.

And that's absolutely fair and is right.

But I think now we are seeing a real combined issue where people are coming forward with multiple issues.

So this is finance, fuel and food. So the three Fs, it's very useful to remember those things when we're talking about things.

And the other side of that is really, there's a real, real problem with there being around £230 million worth of benefits a year going unclaimed in Sheffield.

So it's £230 billion countrywide.

Philippa Willitts:

And that's benefits that people are entitled to and not claiming?

Emma Taylor:

You are absolutely right.

This is things that people are entitled to.

They have a right to this.

And it's very important that that part of it is understood and people don't know what they don't know.

And I think the difficulty with that is you're not sure then where to go when you have high energy and high rent, or you have rent arrears, or you have council tax issues, or you're struggling to pay your water bill, your phone and your broadband.

Big, big, big, big debts, really, that tend to be quite common for many people. Whether you're working, whether you're a benefit claimant, whether whatever your situation is, retired, a new family, whatever it might be, there's lots and lots of people who just can't seem to see a bit of a way out of things.

What I'm seeing at this point, and I've spoken to a few of the team members from the Community Support Helpline at the Council as well around this.

So it's not just me on my own deciding what I think and what I think is going on. This is, this is a big, big part of what it is, really.

So people are suffering from lots of different things and it's not just one.

So I guess what the change has been, it's not just somebody coming forward with, oh, I'm finding it difficult, this particular bill has again gone up.

It's then looking at the difference between usage and then paying off a debt, for example, for energy, it's then you're coming into winter and then your usage is going up and then it's compounded by perhaps another thing.

And that could be stress.

And the stress part of that tends to be a really big factor in somebody potentially literally going to that point of burying their head in the sand.

I think that part is the unpicking.

So the unpicking process, just one thing that somebody is coming forward for that's quite straightforward.

Hello, I would like a little bit of help with X. I'm not sure who to speak to, I'm not sure where to go, but I've really come to the point where I'm not sure what to do next.

And I think at that point you really have to listen because a person potentially might well phone up or come to see somebody within a welcome place, for example, there are over 300 in the city, so they always one to remember.

But within the community space, sometimes people might not feel good about doing that or comfortable. They might see neighbours and people they know.

So there's a little bit of shame in owning up to the fact that people have got issues and problems.

So I guess when somebody has that point at which they've come forward, there sometimes tends to be a real overload of lots of other things that then come tumbling out and you don't stop a disclosure of any kind like that.

You have to listen and by that point and the questions asked, if you're doing a Housing Support fund application, for example, will then open up those other things because we would ask about have you got any debts?

It really gets then a financial picture of why somebody might need a little bit of extra help.

But that is kind of sticking plaster stuff.

It's the longer-term support really that is going to really make the difference.

Philippa Willitts:

So you've talked a bit there about some of the conversations you've been having with people.

Can you tell me about the work you've been doing across the city?

Emma Taylor:

Yes, engagement, partnerships lead what's all that about? What does it mean really?

It's a real mix, my role, I'm very lucky.

I get to do a lot of wonderful meeting of public and residents and people from different community groups across the city, schools, you name it, lots of different services who wish to get that little bit of added value with cost of living support and the partners who I kind of beg borrow and steal to come with me to do a bit more, give a bit more for the support and the wraparound services that are on offer.

So for example, next week there's a DWP job centre Cost of Living event, key friends, key critical friends within energy sector, so the energy poverty sort of side of things, which is a real mix.

You've got Citizens Advice, Affordability Team, you've got National Energy Action, you've got Christians against Poverty.

We're not the only show in town!

There's lots of other grant schemes out there, so it's quite crucial to bring those services together.

I mean, I struggled trying to answer this question and it's not because I don't know what I do.

I think it's because I cover so many different aspects of things that I guess it's important to do engagement and partnerships work and you can't do it without it, without having your finger in lots of pies and understanding and getting a bit annoying and being part of things like the Homelessness Prevention forums and being part of reducing infant mortality programmes that are going on.

There's all these different services. There's not one connection that hasn't got anything that's worthwhile.

There's always something very positive to come out of it.

And I think within that strategic field, it's being a voice, it's understanding and respecting that every contact that a person has counts.

Every contact, every frontline person I've trained or I've done some sessions and you’ve heard me before, I get very excited and passionate about cost of living because I'm a prolific sharer.

I want everybody to know about the latest scheme.

You know, did you know about this new data scheme you can get?

Did you know about the social tariffs and broadband part?

And people do remember this and go, well, actually, can I ask you to have a look at some of the materials I'm providing?

For example, I've done one recently with the NHS and a big, brilliant piece of work by this particular lady who's working on it for people who are being discharged from hospital.

And it's about all different services for all different capacities, different, different abilities, different reasons why somebody might be being discharged, different age groups.

But within that, it was about sense checking and making sure.

And that's because I'm just really annoying and I just get everywhere and everyone's, oh something about that cost of living thing, have I got everything right?

So I do a lot of work with the family hubs. That connectivity is really important.

But one thing I did want to raise to you, if you don't mind, is there's a brilliant project by Gordon and Sarah Brown, and I don't know whether this is something you've heard about before, but it's around poverty and it's around basically what partnerships within poverty means.

Philippa Willitts:

Oh, okay.

Emma Taylor:

It's really good.

So basically it's called Partnership to End Poverty. And if you haven't seen it already.

This has got a bit of background and it basically speaks to the power of working together, like you and me right now, giving me this wonderful opportunity to speak to people, share some of the knowledge, if we can, through the conversations and help somewhere else.

You know, it's helping somebody else if it's not that individual person.

Philippa Willitts:

There's no part of life that's not affected if you can't afford things.

Emma Taylor:

Exactly.

Philippa Willitts:

You think kind of immediately of say, health or getting around, but any social project, any community project, there are ways in which, first of all, some people won't be able to access it for money reasons.

But also, yeah, poverty affects every area of your life without exception, really.

Emma Taylor:

It does.

And I think without talking about it like we are now and without sharing information, without really rallying to, like I said, being a bit annoying and being everywhere you possibly can be and saying, do you know about cost of living? Do you know about the support available? Do you know about this particular new project? It's fantastic.

And you know, it's targeting, I don't know, one, one thing or another. It might be housing projects, it could be anything, but there's lots of different things.

But without that really we are always better together and working together.

I am just one small cog in a very big machine trying to make these things happen.

I'm very passionate about what I do. I love my job.

I think it is just a really crucial thing to just share as much as possible and work as closely as possible with lots of different partners and agencies.

And in particular as well is community organisations across the city.

Because without them and without being able to support people within their community, there is no way around it.

I couldn't do it because they are then telling me, can you come back? Actually we've got a ladies group, we've got women's group, we've got a different number of different individuals who may need support.

And I think it's always one of those things where it's not a one stop shop we don't, oh, here's one trick pony, we've got a bit of money.

Here you go, off you go.

It's not about that. We're here for the long term to try and really give that better offer to people rather than the sticking plaster, quite frankly, of a little bit of grant money.

It's not a bad thing, it's brilliant and it's well timed and it's very, very valued.

There is nothing wrong in that.

But the long-term game is where a lot of agencies are in the same as us so you've got fuel vouchers you can get potentially, if you're in need, from citizens, Citizens Advice Affordability Line and National Energy Action do the same, LEAP has appliances, it's all these different things.

Green Doctors, absolutely fantastic organisation, go into people's homes, just lots and lots of things, lots of fuel voucher aspects of that.

But it's about long-term support, people who aren’t unable to look at their home in a way in which… just don't know where to go with their damp and mould problems or they're just not efficient enough and it will cost more, it costs more to be in that situation as well as you know. It costs to be poor.

Philippa Willitts:

So, last year we heard a lot about people having to choose between heating and eating.

Are you seeing the same problem this year?

Emma Taylor:

I think this year we are seeing the same situation.

And I think from, however, since 2021, 22, I think now it's moved to people having to make more precarious, more difficult decisions.

And it's still around finance.

I would say yes, yes. I'd say it's all around the financial side and that part of it is always going to be there and I think it's because it's that need first.

If you think about how crisis is, crisis is now.

It isn't about what's happening tomorrow or next week.

It's right now and in the right now that will always, that is always going to be that absolute knee jerk need right there and then of how I can be helped for this initial situation.

It's only when a person can step back a little bit.

But that's what community support helpline teams do, that's what citizens advise do.

That's what lots of other welcome place organisations and community organisations, voluntary sector and charity organisations and faith sector organisations across the city do is look at having that conversation to okay, is there anything else?

You know, is everything all right?

Is there anything more we can do?

You can't ignore the crisis, but what you can do is look to the future and look to that long term planning.

And I guess the crisis part, I would say, and the difference between that and those difficult decisions is really around people who are then not only in the in the debt they're in, some people are getting into worse debt.

So it's not just, oh, my phone bill, it's actually then actually that's also my water bills, that's also my rent all, that's also my mortgage. Or then that's also my utility bills and everything else that compounds.

And the worst part, I would say that I'm seeing and sadly it is something that I have seen quite a number that I don't want to see.

But that then crisis is about risk of homelessness.

And then there are also families coming forward who have been made homeless.

So they've been issued a section 21, they've been in private rented sector, they've just.

That's it.

There is support for that. Of course there is.

There is all those things in checks and balances in place to support them.

The council certainly would do that.

Philippa Willitts:

However you want that to not happen in the first place.

Emma Taylor:

You don't want that to happen in the first place! Exactly that.

But we can't do anything necessarily about that.

And until we have those better relationships with the private rented sector and I know Shelter and housing solutions side are working closely and together in partnership to be able to do more.

So I know these things are happening, but it's just really tricky.

So I'd say the larger part is seeing homelessness in action, if you like, which is terribly sad, and then you're compounding that with somebody with small children and small children with health conditions.

So you've got a lot of different layered aspects of concern for a family or for an individual who may have had to sort of stop working for one reason or another.

And it usually is around health conditions.

And that is the worst thing - I know that's one you did start with at the beginning about health issues and other parts of poverty impacting on that.

And I would say that is about where a lot of people are.

There are barriers there to working, barriers there to getting ahead and getting control of finances.

But you're not alone.

No one is alone.

There is lots of help there, there are people to talk to.

And I think that part of it is, at least, that there is that opportunity, there is that offer there.

But if people don't do anything about it, then it just gets worse.

And you know, that then leads to quite serious mental illness because people get so stressed about it.

And yes, it's around basically just doing the best we can.

And I think that's a big part of what I like to do, hence the engagement, hence the partnership side, is to make sure that everybody has got as much information and service support as they possibly can.

And what's difficult sometimes is then knowing where they are and who to go to.

And that part is where the frontline work and the frontline support is a really crucial part of where I like to be.

So I can make sure they have a conduit to me, they can ask questions, we can do sessions with training, we can do lots of different things.

And it's just wonderful because it goes both ways.

It's not just about hearing me going on about stuff, it's right talk to so and so, they're brilliant at this particular piece of work or this is where you can connect and here's a form where you can do a proper referral for somebody who perhaps can't get through to a utility company, for example, and can't make themselves understood for language barriers or whatever it might be.

We all know, everyone personally has experienced many of the issues that are affecting the clients we serve and we support.

And they in turn also, all of us have had some need or other for the support that's available.

Wellbeing and mental health is a big part of that.

Philippa Willitts:

And as you're talking about people not coming forward necessarily until it's a real crisis situation, I'm thinking about the shame we've put on ourselves.

I should be able to look after my family or I should be able to pay my bills is not something you would be faced with when approaching cost of living support or citizens advice.

Those people would not put that same shame on you as we put on ourselves.

Emma Taylor:

And it is tough.

Philippa Willitts:

It's really hard. It's really hard.

Speaking of heating personally, I'm going by the advice of Martin Lewis, the money saving journalist guy

Emma Taylor:

I think I've heard of him

Philippa Willitts:

Once or twice! That it's more efficient to heat a person than a space. So I'm covered in blankets, extra layers of clothes.

But one of the things that's really helping me is a heated blanket.

But even they are 40, 50, 60 quid, so that's a lot to pay out to then maybe save some on your heating.

So what can people do if their heating bills are too high and they're scared to put the heating on?

Emma Taylor:

I mean, I think definitely, certainly things like hot water bottles, I use them quite a lot recently when the temperatures have gone very low.

Oh my Gosh, yeah. I like cuddle it like it's like it's a cat or something.

And that's been one of my favourite go-tos.

But what I will say is, that fear of putting heating on as the temperatures dropping, like you say, it really. It shouldn't be there, it shouldn't be there.

People should not be afraid of these things.

There are fantastic schemes out there and I know I've said a little bit about some of the energy friends within the city who are doing great things to help people.

What I would probably say is looking to some of those agencies such as Green Doctors and National Energy Action and LEAP.

But Green Doctors and Leap do go into and do visit people's homes.

They amongst others.

And there's another one that's right in front of me actually. So this is Yes Warmer Homes Advice line. Lots of different places.

What they actually do and what they can do straight away when they visit it is to check that efficiency is there.

So if there's any problems it could be a person might not be able to bleed the radiators for example or they might be losing heat behind it.

They will have small measures on them which are free to be.

And I had a visit from recently so I know what they can do and it's absolutely brilliant, the advice they give.

They know everything.

It was absolutely amazing to see the kind of advice that was given around that and I valued that so much because it helps me then understand and then be able to share that on, pass that on.

But I will say that they, amongst all of those different agencies which I'm happy to share details with you from wanted to put them somewhere.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah, I'll put everything on the website.

Emma Taylor:

That would be marvellous because there's so much of it.

But you know what, if you do one thing that might be really, really a really, really positive step because they’re easy measures to save on things.

And I think what they would mostly say and they think we're talking about damp and mould problems, they can compound this.

You're trying to dry your clothes, they won't dry if you're just heating you.

And wearing a wet blanket around you isn't going to be very comfortable for you either.

It's around having that good ventilation but and also fair heating and it can be on fairly low but probably more often than just not at all or just heating one room, it's kind of false economy.

So I think I would say, my advice would be to take advantage of these free, easy measures that you can get.

You can order them and I will share these too. So people can do that for themselves, which is fantastic.

You can just text some support to some of these, they're really good.

But having someone in your home to come and say and speak and sit with you and go, do you know what? Your boiler’s like this. But if you did it like this, you could have it on for several hours in the day and your home is then gently warm.

And there's these other measures that can help. Things like draught excluders.

Don't underestimate where the cold is coming from.

So there's a lot of support there to use the basics as well, like a nice hot water bottle.

It does last a long time.

Philippa Willitts:

And it's so cosy.

Emma Taylor:

It's cosy custard and it's fine.

But it's terrifying and I totally get it.

I actually myself have, you know, there's people in the neighbourhood I can see, they don't put the lights on and I know they're in, but they don't put the lights on.

And again, it's about cost and not knowing how much things cost, because people think it costs a fortune and it's like, yeah, one pence a day or something for a light bulb.

So it's not quite as bad as all that.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah.

But if you don't know.

Emma Taylor:

I know.

Philippa Willitts:

Then you don't know.

Yeah.

Emma Taylor:

You're going to be scared, aren't you?

I'm not going to put that on. Do I need to put it on?

What I'd say is it's about safety and that the people I'm thinking of, or I concern myself sometimes with a little bit, is that they're older and if they're walking around in the dark and they have mobility issues.

That also could cause a fall. Is it worth it?

I don't know.

For a light bulb.

Philippa Willitts:

It's a kind of domino effect of things, isn't it?

Emma Taylor:

It is.

And your health can be very, very much impacted on that, especially with respiratory issues.

That's a problem. Especially if you go to colder home, it will affect your chest more.

My husband has asthma. I've seen him when he's had a bad attack and it's awful, it's horrible and incredibly painful to watch, let alone go through.

And that is compounded with cold, cold air. He was going outside. But if you were living in that and sleeping in that and that's not going to be good for you.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah, yeah. So like a combination of maybe lower level heating on plus warming yourself.

So mixing the two so that your home is not freezing.

Emma Taylor:

Yes. Because with the best will in the world, you've got a little snuggly, you've got your water bottle and whatever, whatever it is you can afford or you've gotten to use at hand.

But again if you're then breathing in and your nose and your face and everything is freezing, unless you really sat there with a balaclava or something. But even then moisture is going to form around your face.

When you really think about all of it, it's a mix of both.

It's a blend. Keeping that cosiness dripping over so your pipes can't freeze and then you're not compounding other problems for your water supply and other things like this.

Philippa Willitts:

And prices, especially food prices have risen.

I think even people who aren't struggling with money are noticing this and limiting what they buy, maybe having fewer treats.

But if you are struggling with money, that can mean struggling to meet even your basic food needs.

And it's especially hard to eat nutritiously when money is tight and prices are high. Especially if you then also don't have a fridge or you don't dare turn the oven on.

What advice would you have for people who are struggling to afford nutritious food?

Emma Taylor:

I think the difficulty with food prices, availability… and availability as in access to.

So are we talking local shops? Are we talking to the bigger supermarkets? Are we talking economies of scale?

Can you afford more? Can you afford to carry more?

A lot of this, it's actually about your physical ability to be able to carry these larger but cheaper products home with you.

If it's rice, if it's oil, if it's, if it's pasta, whatever it might be, it's about then you know you're spending more locally for somewhere you can potentially get to.

Or do you then put all in to go a little bit further away to a bigger supermarket or chain or something where you can get a bit better costed products.

But I think in the sense of nutritious food locally you do have all sorts of different spaces.

So if people are really struggling, there are three sort of main spaces really within the area where somebody can access on a pay as you feel go or a community pantries.

And there's also the cafe at Zest and Zest is fantastic.

Oh, gosh, I'm so jealous.

I really wish I lived near there. I love a pool and I love their food.

It's fantastic.

So good, so good.

And I think one thing I will add here because there's quite a lot of services where you can phone up and get referrals for. You might need a referral, you might not.

But one thing I will say is people did have… And this is something that came out in, in Covid, which is very odd. Wherever it came from, I'm not sure, but there was a kind of a bit misinformation going on about frozen things not having any nutrition.

Right, so vegetables, products where you can save things so the things don't go off. People think no, all the nutrition is gone. So why would I buy frozen?

And the reason I say this is because Zest do have these wonderfully prepared frozen packs in card containers. So it's friendly on the environment. It's recycled in a sense as well, so it's food that's been saved from landfill.

Food Works are just amazing. I've known them for a long, long time and always been quite in awe of their services and how they're doing things.

And what you are really doing as well there is you're taking away from landfill by purchasing those things, as well as getting yourself some nutritional foods and you can stock it into your freezer if you have one - like you say, can be difficult, but there is nutritional value in frozen things.

I don't know where this came from, but a lot of people said, oh, I'm not buying that. Even though it's probably better and cheaper, it's nothing in it. It's all gone.

So it's a bit of a strange…

Philippa Willitts:

As I understand it, because when things are frozen, they're picked and frozen so quickly that they actually can retain more nutrients than if they're hanging around fresh for weeks or days.

Emma Taylor:

You're absolutely right.

I mean, look at lovely peas. Everybody's got peas in their freezer. It's just the law.

You're absolutely right.

And I think the reason I say it is because sometimes those products are actually very, very reasonable.

And there's lots and lots of places where people can access that at much cheaper prices.

I think in the sense of the people accessing food banks, people accessing the pay as you feel services and things like this, there are places where you do have to have a referral for them and I think if anyone's going, oh, well, which one is it?

Is it the pay as you feel pantry? What is all of this?

There are all these different things and they're all wonderful. Where are they? How do I get them? How do I get to them? What's the deal?

People can call up and phone up the community support helpline. They can phone up the Citizens advice line as well on this.

Lots and lots of different services will do this for people as well. Lots of different community organisations and, and other sectors can do this, but it's basically they can phone up and what they'll then be given is a phone back to say this is where your nearest one is.

Because there'll be people listening who won't have any clue about this.

But you know what? Will be like, actually, I think I might need this.

Philippa Willitts:

And if you're listening to this and you think, my auntie's not got the Internet, but she can get a call back.

So if I can get her to ring this number, she doesn't have to go online to find the nearest place, somebody will give her a ring and tell her what she needs.

Emma Taylor:

It just takes away the problem of going well actually, if you go online, you put in this search criteria…

Don't get me wrong, lots of people can do that.

But like we said, we're talking about crisis of the now.

You’re talking about somebody very stressed and compounding with that is, I'm flipping hungry, I need formula for my baby, I need specific foods and I also might need halal food, I might need different… it is all very, very different.

You can ask those questions as well. And I think it's one thing just to remember that as well.

It's not just about a pack of pasta and a tin of beans.

It is a thing.

If any listeners are thinking, oh well, I would, but I'll probably just get some random thing or other.

It's not actually. People are listened to within their particular needs and especially if it's someone with children and things like this, don't just stop at that. Get support from family hubs within that field because they are absolutely brilliant and they're all wonderful to work with and they really do see a lot of vulnerability at this time of year especially.

It's getting higher, the calls are getting higher.

Philippa Willitts:

I can imagine this is a two parter:

Are you seeing people getting into debt because of the cost of living? And if somebody is in debt and feels like it's getting out of control, what can they do?

Emma Taylor:

Okay, so I'd say well, yeah, sadly yes, yes. I think I said from before it is fair to say that more people are struggling whether they work or claim benefits, own their own home or rent.

And I think this is right across the board.

And the reason I say this is because people, I think sometimes we're talking about shame and they're talking about pride before and it's quite an important part to remember that everyone is affected and I think your money isn't going as far as it used to.

And so when we were talking at the beginning of checking these things over within whatever you might need to claim and things like this, it's not just about universal credit and aspects like that.

We're talking like personal independence payments, we're talking things that aren't linked with means tested benefits.

We're talking about the compounded issues and problems I think people have with the housing rates and the rental rates and allowances that people have.

There's such a widening gap where you get the price is going up, have our wages suddenly gone up? Everything going up and things stagnating slightly, even if it's a little bit extra and it's not to be knocked. Everybody's probably very, very pleased to get anything at the moment, but it just doesn't go far enough.

And this is why this longer-term aspect of the community support helplines basically push to do that. And our cost of living support hub as a wider part of that is about making money go further for somebody or income max as we would call it, in shop talk.

But it is about maximising that.

And we are not the only show in town who does it. Age UK, they can support those things. You've got social prescribers who can help with some of those things as well.

We are not the only people who can do the benefits checks and things like this.

But cost of living has impacted so many people in so many ways that yes, the debts are getting higher and the issue there, I think for those people is that it's that struggle of then going do you know what?

I can't pay any of these things.

And so I'm not even going to bother looking at it.

And I think, like we've mentioned before, Philippa, I think we've had lots of conversations, haven't we, in VAS meetings around Brown Letter fear and it being a thing.

And I know you felt very strongly about that.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah, you just stop opening the post because it's all threatening about how much you owe to who.

Emma Taylor:

It's not like a nice card from your auntie, is it, with a tenner in it?

It's, oh, I know what this is going to be.

Oh, goodness, I don't know.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah, yeah.

And then when you're not opening them, you lose track of what you owe and how much you owe and who you owe.

Because, yes, the fear just makes you shut it all down, I think, in your head.

Emma Taylor:

And you do.

And I think it's… There are words for this as well. It's kind of around executive capacity.

It's an important factor within your ability to try and not only access services, but just to be able to see through it and communicate and correspond with all the different things that are coming through and make sense of it.

And you compound that with all those things there, then you've got health conditions. So what might that mean? A doctor's appointments over here and when are they?

And then I've got to pay this bill on this very quickly on when you're speaking with somebody who's got that exact thing going on is because they will likely reply well, a year ago it was £3,000. So it's probably a bit more than that.

And I say, oh, a year ago?

Well, yes, I've just got these letters but I know it's quite a lot, but can you help me?

And, well, this is the day we hopefully can and this is the kind of thing I'm hearing from social prescribers as well.

This is frontline workers working with families. This is lots of different services and they're not easy to unpick.

But we will try our damnedest to make sure we can do as much as we can to join those things up and at least make that a little bit less scary.

But it is around just starting somewhere with this and talking to somebody.

Safe to say, I think people have a right to live debt free and live worry free and have access to the support they are entitled to.

Yes, we've got grants, yes, we've got all these other lovely people to talk to and that's fantastic as the first steps.

But it's looking at what you're entitled to.

Consider it, think about it, look into these things and check and just query it and be curious, I would say be curious about your finances and about your health, and kindly curious about your friends and family.

There are cohorts within the city, especially within the areas we are talking about today, who are further removed from that, more vulnerable and potentially less likely to ask for help.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah, I'm writing an article at the moment about exactly why it's so much more expensive to be disabled.

Charity Scope has calculated, I can't remember the exact number, but it costs something like £975 a month extra for families with a disabled person in them just to live, just daily living costs.

And there are so many things that people don't take into account or don't think of. But if you need special food, if you need equipment, if you need to get taxis, if all of these things all add up to some groups of people being harder hit or more strongly affected by already difficult financial situations.

Emma Taylor:

Just horrible to hear, Horrible to hear. And you just think, well, that's just a bad lot all round, isn't it?

And it shouldn't be the case.

It's just so tricky because some of the products that you need or person might need to get about are just ridiculously expensive.

And I think there's something around necessity for that. And I think that period products and other things like that, which are stupid, stupid money. And you just think, what is this about?

Philippa Willitts:

That's something I always put in the food bank collection box, is period products.

Because if you don't have them, it's just a dignity situation, isn't it?

Emma Taylor:

It is.

Philippa Willitts:

If you can't stop yourself from bleeding all over your clothes, you're just not going to feel good in any way.

Emma Taylor:

I mean, no one is going to.

Then is the compound from that is having then to wash your things so you need new clothes.

Because like you say, exactly that, it's about the dignity part of it.

It's just crucial that there is that support there.

And I must say, there's many things like that that really, there's always some things that really gets you and I think that's one for me as well.

And I think access to data is another part of it as well.

Access to SIM cards and aspects like this, which they're starting to do more.

And I know O2 have launched their campaign with Foundation for Good and all of that, which is fantastic, but there's still more that needs to be done.

It's just, yeah, it's a lot, there's a lot of things to level up the playing field and then you've also got all the other things you want to think about climate change and everything else, which is all super, super valid. But in a way this is where the energy efficiency measures and support is coming into play.

Yes, it's a planet thing and yes, of course it's right and we all have a duty of care for our future generations, but it's also because it will cost you a lot less money and your home will be warmer and drier.

So it's a lot of reasons.

Philippa Willitts:

And that thing we were just saying about periods, that if you can't afford menstrual pads so you bleed on your clothes and then you need to buy more clothes.

It feels like a perfect example of why being poor is really expensive.

In the same way as you might not be able to take advantage of special offers in Tesco because you can't buy more than you really, really need.

You might not have options to choose your utility suppliers because you've owed them money.

Disabled people often live in poverty but have may have no option but to buy higher cost food because maybe they need pre prepared, pre chopped things, maybe they have particular dietary requirements.

So a lot of people feel like they're in a vicious cycle and really trapped.

Do you have any tips or recommendations for people who are feeling trapped in their financial difficulties?

Emma Taylor:

One thing is so many people are very much in their own heads and it's the mental health part and potentially also not having somewhere to go, someone to talk to and then maybe for one reason or another, not being able to share what they're going through with friends or with family members.

It might be considered very shameful. We have to talk about it, else it just keeps going around in circles.

And I think the mental health aspect is probably one of the key parts of which I would say that's really where we need to step on and make sure we are dealing with it and that part of it is one of the main aspects I dwell on more than anywhere, because then if someone gets their head clear, is then able to tackle those first steps and I guess - sorry it sounds really pulpity: but be not afraid, speak up, have those conversations.

What happens within a crisis to people is it's of the right this minute and of the now.

But rather than thinking, okay, I've got this thing I need to deal with over here and I need to sort this out there, that part of it is one thing, but it's about not borrowing that trouble for tomorrow.

Because if you do, and this is especially coming into the festive period and all the rest of it, it's just going to get worse really.

And so I think in the sense of that support and how you might get out of that cycle, it's around basically speaking to somebody. It's about getting that financial help and guidance.

And there's National Debtline, there is Citizens advice, there are great services out there to access for people who have got other issues.

Take the first step to take control, basically, is going to be the priority.

Philippa Willitts:

As I told you the other day, for me, this is some time ago, but ringing National Debtline was a terrifying thing to do.

Partly because it involved opening those letters and writing down some numbers and adding it all up.

Emma Taylor:

Oh gosh.

Philippa Willitts:

But being able to just openly say those numbers and not have somebody gasp in horror, but just be like, okay, like we can work this out.

And then just having somebody who could talk me through step by step, because that's the other thing. You feel so overwhelmed that you don't know what a first step is.

Emma Taylor:

No.

Philippa Willitts:

So if somebody can say to you, number one, do this, number two, do this, number three, do that, then there's like a process you can follow and it already feels a bit more in control.

Emma Taylor:

There are some amazing spreadsheets and bits and pieces and single pages where I've seen recently about just plotting these bits of information as well for yourself.

And I think it is about that manageability, isn't it?

It's about open conversations with professionals who are super used to hearing these things unfortunately, but also fortunately they won't be shocked for the situation that you might be in.

And I think to manage a debt or sets of debts, you do need a helping hand. Nobody expect you just to handle all of that on your own.

Philippa Willitts:

Even just telling you which are priority debts and which are non priority debts, that wasn't terminology I'd ever heard before that. I hadn't known that there were different legal processes for different types of debts or any of that, but they knew all of that and they could tell me the relevant bits for my situation.

Emma Taylor:

I mean, you can go into sort of voluntary arrangements, you can go into a number of different, different ways to manage debts.

And you can also have managed bank accounts where basically the bank takes on all the debts and all the bits and pieces and manages all of that with the money you have coming in and going out.

Philippa Willitts:

It was so helpful.

One of the things they said to me was, these people would rather have something than nothing.

Emma Taylor:

Yes.

Philippa Willitts:

So they might come to an agreement where you pay five pounds a month and they might try and get you to pay more, but they'd still rather have £5 a month than no pounds a month.

Emma Taylor:

Absolutely.

Philippa Willitts:

That demystified it a bit for me as well.

Emma Taylor:

And I think also looking at that part of it, you have a right to have that ability to pay. And I think it's a form of like, say it might not be lots and lots of money, but it's what you can afford.

And what you can afford is still you controlling that.

Even if it's a pound a month, a pound a week, whatever it is, it's still something.

One thing I did come across recently was a person, one of my frontline workers was talking through somebody's debts and issues and what they basically went through, budgeting, they went through.

What income have you got coming in? And then let's put as many things as possible, so not just the basics, but all the things you're paying out.

And one of them was to a charity. And she was accessing a food bank, this particular lady, and she was paying to a really good, don't get me wrong, wonderful charity.

Philippa Willitts:

And what a gorgeous thing to do. But that's the time to prioritise yourself.

Emma Taylor:

That was something good and wonderful. But it's things like that, it's having those conversations to say really, it's a lovely thing and maybe when things get a little bit better for you, do put back a little bit of money to that particular charity of your choice and something that lady cared very much about.

But you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Not everyone can do it and give yourself a break.

Philippa Willitts:

You’re allowed to cancel that direct debit and you've done a wonderful thing and you may be able to do that again in the future lately, say.

But right now is not the time.

Emma Taylor:

And checking as well that things… I mean, sometimes you might have a subscription that you didn't even know you got and you might have moved accommodation.

So you might feel a bit afraid of looking into your finances sometimes. But actually it's good to do those good look throughs and searches and checks and I think it's any which way you can get that support to have a conversation about that.

And if people are genuinely struggling with their mental health, physical health, whatever it might be, then speak to your GP about that, because there are people that can support you and that you can get that referred support on.

And there's plenty of brilliant services out there who will be able to give you a helping hand to talk you through and help you just find that clear path.

Philippa Willitts:

And this is the December episode of the podcast. A lot of people will be feeling the pressure to have the perfect Christmas.

What would you say to people who feel like they've got to buy all the best presents and all the perfect food, but money is tight?

Emma Taylor:

Well, I would say, goodness, don't we all? It's quite a stressful thing.

You think, oh if you had all the money in the world, you'd want to give everyone something wonderful because of how much you can show your love for somebody and your care for somebody or your thanks for somebody and for them being in your lives and just being wonderful.

Hugs are free.

Philippa Willitts:

A walk in the park is free.

Emma Taylor:

There's a lot of nice things you can do and to be honest, it's a tricky one, isn't it?

But I think whatever festive celebration is taking place, there's always a huge amount of pressure to do what is expected.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah.

When it's Eid, you're meant to cook for everybody, all the food. When it's Hanukkah… whatever's going on, there's some pressure to almost perform generosity in a way that is very money based.

Emma Taylor:

Yes, often I think that's, I think, like we've said before, think on the future because my advice would be don't rob from tomorrow to pay for today.

And that goes for everything, I would say.

But it's not just to be a complete humbug on it all. You can still do nice things. It's much easier said than done.

But talking back to our friend Martin, Martin Lewis, there's a wonderful little video he's got an excerpt of him speaking to an audience around Christmas time.

And he basically got everybody to talk about their pressures and he was questioning, why are you spending all this money? What's your average spend? What does it make you feel?

It was very lacklustre. And all it said was stress all round.

And the number one out of all of it was really, well, what do we really want? Do you really need to have that pressure on that person?

I think we had the conversation, didn't we? And he had the same thing. It was people saying, oh, I've seen a friend. And then I bought them a present. They didn't get me one.

Then they came to get me one and it was all a bit funny because they didn't have much money and then they felt they had to get one for me and all of this sort of thing.

And it's very similar in that pressure. It's almost like, don't cave to it.

But you were saying about some of the work I do, it's for no good reason that a lot of the bigger events for finance and help for cost of living, they're being planned in for January and February, different services, different products, different ways.

And it's because it is the worst time.

It's the long… It's like January is like… I mean, how many years is January?

Philippa Willitts:

And it's the worst weather and it's grey and you're absolutely broke.

Because often people are paid a bit early in December if they're normally paid at the end of the month as well, because of bank holidays. And so January is a literal stretch of the amount of time between monthly pay packets, if that's what you get.

There's all so many reasons.

And then if you open Facebook and all your friends have somehow got matching pyjamas for Christmas Day only.

Emma Taylor:

Oh, goodness, yes.

Philippa Willitts:

With their kids. And they're different to last year's matching pyjamas, which are different to the year before's matching pyjamas, you can think I'm giving my kids a terrible Christmas, but that's just not the case.

If it's fine to not have matching pyjamas, basically.

Emma Taylor:

I think a lot of it is you do you. And I think the brand part of things is also a tricky thing.

It's hard, fast fashion, new, new, new.

I think people are starting to see a bit more about that recycled part. Vinted's doing brilliantly from that reason, isn't it? And ebay and places and the sales and swaps type functions on local neighbourhoods.

Those are brilliant.

And I've seen so many things that are being given away for free and people are sharing things like Christmas, older Christmas decorations they're getting rid of.

I've certainly done that locally from my area.

TikTok and Instagram aren't real life, are they to be aspired to? I think some of them might be because they're all about saving the planet and supporting things and listening to lovely podcasts like this one, hopefully will be useful and interesting and wonderful.

And there's lots of free learning and wonderful things and how to make stuff.

Philippa Willitts:

If people have Netflix, there's a new documentary, I think it's called Buy Now that I watched the other day and it's all about exactly how Amazon, Shein, all of these make us buy.

Basically all the tricks they use to make us need the latest new thing.

Emma Taylor:

I see.

Philippa Willitts:

And if you want to feel better about not overspending at Christmas, not having the branded things, not having the brand new things, and if you have Netflix, watch this documentary.

It is incredibly powerful.

Emma Taylor:

That sounds absolutely… that is going to be watched. That sounds absolutely brilliant.

And you know what, as well, this time of year, I think if sometimes people needing newer things, we do a big sell.

So we go through things, we perhaps… Oh, do you know what? I love that, but I'm just a bit bored of seeing it.

Sell that on, whether that's a local thing, someone can pick it up from your house.

You don't even have to go and post it.

Philippa Willitts:

Or on vinted. Or on ebay.

Emma Taylor:

Or on vinted. Or ebay. Yes.

So you've got all these different choices, but a few pounds there. A few pounds. It adds up. It really does.

And doing those sorts of things means you probably can get a nice little something. If you needed a new coat or something warm and cosy.

I could go on forever about many different aspects of this because it's just so vital and yeah, it affects so many people. So many people.

Philippa Willitts:

It really does.

And I think to kind of conclude it would be good to think about if somebody's listening and they're doing okay, they feel like things might be a bit of a stretch, but they're managing.

Emma Taylor:

Yeah.

Philippa Willitts:

And they want to offer help to others. What are some ways they can do that?

Emma Taylor:

Well, I think on this, there's a lot of really, really wonderful opportunities on volunteering.

And I get asked quite often about this and sometimes, often this could be a really good way in for someone looking for work as well and things.

But it's also for somebody to give back a bit of time.

And actually it's not just giving back a bit of time. It's giving them a bit more social and getting them out to talk to people, having a little bit more meaning if perhaps you've been retired or your children have gone to school and you've got a little bit more time back.

So it's one of those things where lots of people are coming forward to ask about it because they want to do something.

And I must say, I've never seen so many as recently there's been just so fantastic, so many different opportunities.

One of the things I would say is to go for Sheffield Volunteer Centre. It's part of Voluntary Action Sheffield, and they have loads and loads of advice on the opportunities for volunteering across the city for different things.

Currently, organisations across the city also looking for help over Christmas for things like community meals. NHS are looking for lots and lots of people for different services.

Befriending services.

Philippa Willitts:

I was just going to say befriending!

Emma Taylor:

Here, there and everywhere. There's so many things.

And you know what? I probably say the befriending part, and probably most people that have come forward to say that we're interested in something like that, have been people who've used the service themselves and have actually got a lot out of it.

So lived experience does then usually come full circle a little bit, which I think is wonderful and as it should be.

And I think if you aren't able to do any of those things, because some people might not be able to donate to a food bank. There's lots of donations set up for S6 Food Bank.

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah, I know the Tesco on Infirmary Road.

Emma Taylor:

Oh, yes.

Philippa Willitts:

They have a basket where when you've done your shopping, you can put something in the basket and I know that they then top it up.

So whatever the value of what people donate, Tesco itself adds to that with more products.

Emma Taylor:

That's really… I didn't know that. That's really positive, isn't it?

Philippa Willitts:

Yeah.

And I don't know whether all Tescos do that or all supermarkets do that, but I do know on the Infirmary Road one, which is just down the road, there's a sign saying, I can't remember the percentage, but we add maybe 20% of the value on to what people donate.

So yes, and that's relatively easy if you're already doing a shop to pick up a bag of pasta or pick up a pack of tampons or pick up a box of tea bags.

And yeah, as you're leaving the store you just drop it in on the way out.

Emma Taylor:

That's another thing actually, if you are having a good clear out, charity shops are really keen on looking for Christmassy things, but also things like fabrics and books and crockery I've seen recently.

Giving things away makes me feel really good.

Philippa Willitts:

Emma, thank you so much. It's been really interesting and I'm sure people are going to find it really useful.

Emma Taylor:

I hope so. It's always a pleasure, Philippa, and brilliant to talk to you and have the opportunity to share some of the support that's on offer out there.

Philippa Willitts:

And you'll get those links to me for the different organisations and I will make sure they're all on the website at http://nunlocal.news.

Emma Taylor:

Perfect. Well, thank you very much.

Philippa Willitts:

Thank you for listening to NUN Local and do subscribe at http://nunlocal.news to get every episode out on the 1st of every month for more hyper-local Netherthorpe, Upperthorpe and Neepsend News.

NUN Local is a project of Scribble and Bloom, a social enterprise created to encourage self-expression as a way to improve lives.

Find out more about Scribble and Bloom Community Interest Company and its other projects including zine-making workshops and Easy Read translations at http://www.scribbleandbloom.org.uk

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.nunlocal.news

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