Oblivious Witness

A week, six decades (and three continents) in the life of a truly brilliant writer

So far this week, Peter Godwin has launched his beautiful new book in the US, been interviewed at his NYC launch party by Booker Prize winner Marlon James, and been featured in the New York Times. And today here he is on the Oblivious Witness podcast, talking with me about Exit Wounds: A Story of love, loss and occasional wars, which focuses on his changing relationships with the three women who shaped his life.

It was an incredible honour to sit down with Peter for this conversation, and I’m so thrilled to share it with you here.Oh and breaking news that you’ll get here on Oblivious Witness first! Having now written four brilliant memoirs, Peter’s considering writing a book called First Person Singular that might help the rest of us to write our own… I’ve pre-ordered my copy on the strength of this announcement! Let me know if you’d like to do the same!

And I’d love to hear your stories too

If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments or send me a message about a story you’d like to share. Every heart-squeeze and comment makes it more likely that someone else might happen upon a conversation that could just widen their world.

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

What happens when you forge your own path

Maya Vassallo di Florio was born into a family of doctors and dentists, and it was assumed by everyone around her that she’d follow in the footsteps of her family. Her parents were shocked when she declared that she wanted to study journalism, even more shocked when she moved on to drama, and completely alarmed when she became a priestess and temple keeper. Maya, however, always single-mindedly forged her own path, and after years of fighting for recognition, she’s become a respected speaker, author and mentor of sacred sexuality.For more about Maya’s life, story and incredibly important work, check out her Instagram, here.Please enjoy this inspiring conversation with the extraordinary Maya Vassallo di Florio.

And I’d love to hear from you too!

If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.

Let’s all tell each other about the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our lives, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

Spend some time with the artist

As much as I want you to hear this conversation with the incredibly talented Robin Block, I have a suggestion… Head to Robin’s website first! I was lucky enough to see Robin on stage at the Ubud Writers and Readers Festival before I had the privilege of meeting him in person for this conversation, so I know that his music and mesmerising sensory performances are a wonderful introduction to his life and work. Please go and have a look then hurry on back!

I love talking to people about their travels around the world, and those conversations have an extra resonance when the person in question has documented their explorations in poetry, music and performance. Robin’s poetry collection, Handbook for the Displaced (available for sale here), was launched in Indonesia last year, and the day after we spoke I was lucky enough to attend a viewing of the beautiful poetry film he made with documentary filmmaker Jeremy Flohr.

For this conversation, Robin and I were generously hosted by Erasmus Huis, the Dutch cultural centre in Jakarta, Indonesia.

Please enjoy this conversation with the wonderful Robin Block.

And I’d love to hear from you too!

If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.

Let’s all tell each other about the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our lives, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

I want to know about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

At the age of 25, Ali Reza Yawari has seen a very great deal of life

Three weeks after he was forced to flee his native Afghanistan at the age of 15, Ali found himself isolated and alone in Indonesia, a country he couldn’t previously have found on a map. He has now been in Indonesia for ten years, and his citizenship status is still unresolved.From his earliest days in a detention facility, Ali recognised that he and the people around him needed a reason to wake up in the mornings. The children needed something to do, and the adults needed to learn, to teach, to communicate, to tell stories and be in community with those around them. And so, slowly, gathering people who could help and mustering whatever small resources were available to him, he began to build something. What started with language classes to help his friends to communicate with camp guards has grown into an initiative that supports and empowers young people whose lives have been turned upside down by displacement.

I was privileged to meet Ali at the Ubud Writers and Readers Festival in October last year, and to hear him read from his beautiful collection of prose and poetry, Lost in the Calm, in which he reflects on some of his experiences as a refugee.For this interview, I flew from our home in Bali to the bustling capital, Jakarta. Please enjoy this conversation with the wonderful Ali Reza Yawari.

And I’d love to hear from you too!

Meeting and talking with Ali has inspired me to action, and I hope it might inspire you too. From today until World Refugee Day on June 20th, I’ll be working on a project to raise awareness of the situation of people like Ali, whose strength, courage and kindness should be seen as an example to us all.If anything in this episode has inspired you, or if you’d like to know more about the project, I’d love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments or send me a message.And please squeeze the little heart below! I’ll be sure to pass on the love to Ali and his beautiful community.

With love,Michelle x

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

Welcome to Season Two of Oblivious Witness

How’s 2025 been for you so far, folks? What a wild ride we’re all on… I hope you’re all OK and managing to white-knuckle your way through the turmoil.

Would you agree that the world is feeling more dangerously divided than ever? I’ve never felt more strongly that we need to hear people’s individual stories to remind us that when it boils down to it, we’re all striving towards the same goals - fulfilment, happiness, and a world that’s safe for ourselves and for future generations.

For that reason, I’m getting out on the road to talk with amazing people for this season of Oblivious Witness. I’m bringing you stories from change-makers, from thinkers, from writers and artists and musicians and travellers of all kinds, from people who move through the world with intention and kindness and inclusivity at their core. I’m so excited about the incredible lives and perspectives I’ll be sharing with you over the coming months.

Please meet the amazing Frankie Sutton

For this conversation, my incredible guest and I were hosted by the beautiful Bumi Kinar Resort in Ubud, the cultural heart of Bali. Frankie Sutton arrived on the back of a Gojek bike. She took off her helmet and shook out her beautiful waist-length silver hair (which she’s grown out as a quiet protest against ageism!), and we spent the day by the pool and amidst the palm trees, talking about the many changes that Frankie has seen in the world over five decades of hitch-hiking, backpacking and migration.

Frankie travels the world with kindness and connection, and brought up her children to be true citizens of the world, open to the opinions and perspectives of others, and at home wherever in the world they find themselves.Find out more about Frankie’s life and adventures on her Instagram and BlueskyI hope you’ll benefit from Frankie’s wisdom, optimism and enthusiasm as much as I have.

And I’d love to hear from you too!

If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.

Let’s all tell each other the stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our lives, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.

With love

Michelle x

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe to Oblivious Witness and become part of the conversation.

I LOVED every second of this conversation with the wonderful Charlene Ng, and I’m so thrilled to leave it with you as the last episode in this first season of the Oblivious Witness podcast.Charlene was born in Hong Kong, has Canadian citizenship, and studied in the United States from the age of 15. Her elite education, which culminated in a degree in Cultural Psychology from Stanford University, left her with incredible tools for establishing an impressive career, but also with a harsh inner voice that told her that perfectionism and being “the best” were the only valid measures of success. Through practices like mindful self-compassion, Charlene has been able to quiet those critical inner voices and approach life’s challenges with a kinder inner knowing, and she now uses the wisdom she’s accumulated to help Chinese parents to guide their children in navigating their own paths towards learning.I hope you’ll enjoy listening to this conversation with the stunningly bright and inspiring Charlene Ng as much as I enjoyed having it.

And I’d love to hear from you too!

If anything in this episode, or any of the episodes in Season One, have inspired you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.

Especially in the light of the recent US elections, the world is feeling more dangerously divided than ever, and I’ve never felt more strongly that it’s through people’s individual stories that we can be reminded that when it boils down to it, we’re all striving towards the same goals - fulfilment, happiness and a world that’s safe for ourselves and for future generations.

Let’s please come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our lives, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.

With love

Michelle x

I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe to Oblivious Witness and become part of the conversation!

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

Aida Mustafina was born in a small city in the world’s ninth largest nation, Kazakhstan. When Aida was growing up, young girls were generally taught that their primary goals should be to respect men, and to value their own roles as good wives and mothers. Aida’s parents, however, were extremely progressive, and encouraged their daughters to make their own way in the world.

When Aida was eighteen, her father accompanied her to China, where she started a new life and eventually became a reluctant role model for other young women who’d come from similarly traditional backgrounds.

I’m so happy to bring you this conversation with the wonderful Aida Mustafina. Please enjoy.

And I’d love to hear from you too!

If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.

Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.

With love

Michelle x

I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe and become part of the conversation!

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

I’m so thrilled to have another Dutch guest on the Oblivious Witness podcast! And I have to highlight a thing that would have filled my Dad’s Dutch heart with joy… There’s conversation in this episode about a close encounter with Dad’s all-time favourite musician, André Rieu!

Following in the footsteps of her adventurous parents, Tanya Busquet has lived in many places across Europe, the Caribbean, the Antipodes and Asia. She’s seen life from many different perspectives, sometimes moving between extremes, like when she went from years of living on a budget as a backpacker, to a long stint working in the exclusive designer shops in Amsterdam’s PC Hofstraat. She currently lives in Beijing, China, with her husband and children.

Throughout all of her adventures, Tanya has striven to maintain a sense of the basic goodness of humanity, always looking beneath the surface of people’s behaviour to try to understand their problems and motivations. This level of empathy has led her to try to help less privileged people in some of her host nations, including Syrian refugee children in Istanbul, and orphaned rural children in China, who go to Beijing requiring life-saving surgeries.

Please enjoy this conversation with the wonderful Tanya Busquet.

And I’d love to hear from you too!

If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.

Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.

With love

Michelle x

I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe and become part of the conversation!

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling

Twenty years after my own family left post-war Netherlands in search of a better life, Linda Li’s family found refuge there after fleeing the hardships of the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

Linda’s family were the only Chinese people in a small Dutch village near the German border, and racial taunts were an unavoidable part of Linda’s childhood. Linda and her brother and sister helped their parents to run a Chinese restaurant in the village, then during a five-week holiday in China, Linda became interested in Mandarin, and eventually decided to become a translator. She spent summers in Beijing, then was awarded a scholarship to study in Shanghai, and after graduation she accepted a job with a Fortune 500 company in that city.

While in the Netherlands Linda had been seen as a Chinese, on moving to China she found that she was considered neither Chinese nor Dutch. Expat colleagues would treat her like an assistant, and Chinese people would reprimand her for not speaking Mandarin fluently enough. She slowly grew to accept this reality, and surrounded herself with like-minded friends.

Linda eventually became a successful project manager with a creative agency, but her success came at a cost. After suffering from burnout, depression and suicidal ideation, Linda started to concentrate on the things that truly lifted her up. After starting with short walks with her dogs, Linda worked her way up to running marathons and triathlons, and she now has her own business, teaching other people how to work with their bodies to stay strong, vital and alive.

Linda now lives with her wife and dog in Beijing, and the three of them dream of living in a cottage with a little garden in Spain.

Please enjoy this conversation with the inspirational Linda Li.

I knew that Amy Devine was a kindred spirit the first time I met her in Beijing, China, but it was only as the months went by and I heard more of her story that I recognised why I felt such a connection.

Amy Devine was brought up on a council estate in the UK, and like me, she ended up living a life of international adventure almost by accident. Amy’s childhood exposure to addiction and domestic abuse led her to a degree in criminology. After she graduated she moved to China, where she started teaching English, and she then gained a Masters degree in education and ended up teaching at a prestigious international school in Beijing.

During her earliest years in China, Amy enjoyed the perks of the expat lifestyle, earning a good salary and partying with her friends, until one day her flatmate pointed out that her drinking had become problematic. The journey that Amy has since taken towards sobriety and self-actualisation has changed the course of her life. Recovery has led Amy towards women’s groups, meditation and breathwork, all of which have inspired her to retrain as a breathwork facilitator, start her own business, and leave her comfortable life in Beijing behind.

When we recorded this interview just before I moved from Beijing to Bali, Amy was on the cusp of a series of fabulous new adventures.

To learn more about Amy’s breathwork offerings, check out her website (with photos by yours truly 😊), and follow her on Instagram. Also make sure you have a listen to her excellent podcast, What’s It All About.

Please enjoy this conversation with the luminous Amy Devine. I’ll look forward to bringing you an update on her adventures very soon!

And I’d love to hear from you too!

If anything in this episode inspires you to see the world a little differently or to expand your own horizons in any way, I’d so love to hear from you. Please drop a note in the comments, or send me a message about a story you’d like to share.

And if you’d like to talk about your own experiences of living away from your home nation, please let me know!

Let’s come together to share stories of the things we’ve witnessed, so that we can learn from one another and see that, despite the differences in the details of our stories, we’re all global citizens of one beautiful and intricately interconnected world.

With love

Michelle x

I want to hear about the things you’ve witnessed too! Please subscribe and become part of the conversation!

MUSIC: Defining Life, by Bill Conn

PHOTOGRAPHY: Michelle Neeling

Written and produced by Michelle Neeling