Ocean Wings Podcast

Makenna Trapani spent five years in emergency veterinary medicine before realizing that individual care wasn’t enough to fix the system-level problems affecting animals. Now, at just 23, she works as a Government Affairs Associate in Arizona, helping to pass animal welfare legislation and build the coalitions needed to turn ideas into state law. Martina sits down with Makenna to explore her path from vet tech to policy work, how an internship sparked her interest in public service, and what it actually takes to move a bill through the legislature, from stakeholder negotiations to the persistence required when laws don’t pass the first time.

In this episode

• What emergency veterinary work revealed about the limits of care beyond the clinic
• How a Senate internship sparked Makenna’s path into public policy and advocacy
• What a Government Affairs Associate actually does day to day
• The two-year process behind passing an animal neglect law
• How bills move through committees, chambers, and legislative deadlines
• What “being a voice for the voiceless” means in legislative work
• The role of lobbying, amendments, and compromise in shaping legislation
• Why persistence and timing matter as much as good ideas in policy work

Key moments

(00:00) Introducing Makenna and her work in public policy

(01:14) Emergency vet work and the gaps that led her toward policy

(03:30) What a Government Affairs Associate does

(05:29) How Makenna and Martina first met in Hawaii

(06:31) Shark research and early conservation work

(07:59) Linking conservation work to policy and legislation

(09:21) From vet tech shifts to policy work at the Capitol

(11:28) The animal neglect case that led to new legislation

(13:32) The two-year process behind Arizona's animal neglect legislation

(14:50) How legislative timing and deadlines affect bills

(17:23) How many people are involved in passing a bill

(19:57) Stakeholder work, lobbying, and persistence

(21:12) Closing reflections on civic engagement and change

Resources

• Episode page and resources: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/vet-to-lobbyist-makenna
• Get Martina’s emails: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter
• More about manta rays on https://mantarayadvocates.com
• Watch the full video on YouTube 

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For over thirty years, Professor Dawn Murray has built a career in marine science by following her curiosity wherever it led. That path has included jellyfish research at Monterey Bay, documenting Indigenous medicinal plant knowledge in Bhutan, and serving on the advisory council of the first Indigenous-led National Marine Sanctuary in the United States. In this conversation with Martina, she walks through the key turns in her career and the people and places that shaped it — and examines how ocean science translates into education, policy, and real-world action.

In this episode

• How a lifelong curiosity for the ocean became a 30+ year career in marine science
• Ocean systems, nutrient cycles, and why they matter far beyond the shoreline
• How manta rays reveal the health of ocean ecosystems
• Working alongside Indigenous communities from Tulum to Bhutan to Hawai‘i
• Challenging students to apply ocean science in their own communities
• Grassroots activism, policy, and the long game of ocean conservation

Key moments

(00:00) Introduction: Dawn Murray, marine scientist and professor

(01:48) Growing up coastal: Hawaii, Santa Barbara, and a love of the ocean

(04:07) From art history and Italian to marine science 

(06:01) Jellyfish, marine snow, and master's research at Monterey Bay

(09:24) PhD work and citizen science in the intertidal

(11:22) Intertidal ecology and human shoreline impacts

(14:56) Why ocean health is essential for human survival

(15:42) The global ocean conveyor belt explained

(19:39) Phytoplankton, food webs, and climate regulation

(24:30) The discovery of the third manta species

(25:12) Mantas as nutrient movers and ecosystem connectors

(27:40) What is plankton? Phytoplankton vs. zooplankton

(32:11) Why lights attract plankton at night

(34:30) Lifelong curiosity and resilient ecosystems

(38:55) Teaching graduate students across the globe

(46:00) Environmental awareness: Europe vs America

(49:08) From awareness to action: activism and policy

(52:50) The Tribal Trust Foundation and advocating for Indigenous voices

(55:56) Preserving Indigenous medicinal plant knowledge in Bhutan

(01:00:23) The Chumash Heritage National Marine Sanctuary

(01:03:10) Miloli‘i: community-led ocean stewardship

(01:07:55) Curiosity, connection, and protecting what we love

Resources

• Episode page and resources: oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/dawn-murray-marine-biologist
• Get Martina’s emails: oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter
• More about manta rays on mantarayadvocates.com
• Watch the full video on YouTube 

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In this episode, Martina sits down with Savannah Maira, a core member of the Manta Ray Advocates team, to discuss her journey to her current role in ocean conservation. With a background in backstage theater and office administration, Savannah explains how her skills in organization, consistency, and long-term observation now contribute to manta ray conservation and enhance the guest experience. The conversation provides insight into how individual manta rays are tracked over time, how real sighting data informs candid discussions with guests, and how considerations such as safety, seasonality, and preparation guide responsible ocean encounters. 

In this episode

• Savannah’s path from theater and admin work to swim guiding with manta rays
• How nightly manta sightings are tracked and documented over time
• The story of Black Diamond’s fishing hook injury and its long-term resolution
• What the 2025 sighting data reveals about familiar mantas and close encounters
• Why manta ray sightings vary by season, and when tours are canceled for safety
• How the box jellyfish calendar evolved into the Manta Rays of Kona calendar project
• Sharing manta ray work and knowledge with the next generation

Key moments

(00:00) Introduction to Savannah and her role at Manta Ray Advocates

(00:37) Backstage theater and the path to Hawaii

(04:21) How a family connection led to an unexpected job opportunity

(07:04) Starting in admin and learning the business fast

(08:45) First manta swim and moving into guide briefings

(11:19) Swim guide training and lifeguard certification

(13:44) Commuting across the island for weekend guiding

(15:13) Tracking Black Diamond’s fishing hook injury over time

(22:06) Recording nightly manta sightings to answer guest questions

(23:41) 2025 sightings: familiar mantas and close encounters

(29:14) Seasonal manta sightings and tour cancellations

(34:46) The Manta Rays of Kona calendar project

(40:21) Raising a four-year-old manta ray enthusiast

Resources

• Episode page and resources: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/savannah-swim-guide
• Get Martina’s emails: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter
• More about manta rays on https://mantarayadvocates.com
• Watch the full video on YouTube 

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Rae Madison Gerber’s life has been shaped by three encounters with manta rays that became unexpected turning points. What began as a tentative first swim evolved into a way to reconnect with her body, question long-held beliefs about trust and worth, and find the clarity to step away from work that no longer felt right. This episode explores listening inward, finding momentum when the world feels overwhelming, and how the ocean can create space for emotional release.

In this episode:

• What manta rays can teach us about self-acceptance and seeing bodies without judgment.
• How Rae’s work with Body Trust shapes her approach to healing and care.
• The role of listening inward and continuing forward to something better when the work you’re doing no longer fits.
• How trauma lives in the body and why the ocean can help unlock what gets stuck.
• How Rae imagines blending the power of the ocean with therapeutic work to create a different kind of healing space.

Key moments:

(00:00) Introduction 

(01:33) Rae's first manta experience

(03:33) From anxiety on the beach to joy in the water 

(06:25) Rae’s path into mental health counseling

(07:52) Unlearning body shame with the mantas

(09:26) "Big Bertha," a manta ray matriarch 

(11:43) Burnout and wondering if therapy is still the right path

(16:26) A new chapter and choosing work that makes your heart sing

(19:47) What Body Trust is and why it matters 

(22:48) Third manta swim and finding community in the dark

(26:41) Keeping momentum when the world feels heavy

(31:52) Learning scuba the right way: skill, discipline, safety

(34:20) Scar the sea turtle and protecting the ocean

(35:46) Body Trust meets the ocean: Rae's vision for group therapy

(37:21) Trauma in the body and healing in the ocean

Resources

• Episode page and resources: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/rae-body-trust-therapy
• Get Martina’s emails: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter
• More about manta rays on https://mantarayadvocates.com
• Watch the full video on YouTube

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Living in landlocked Nebraska makes ocean visits precious. In this episode, Chris Gorman reflects on why he and his wife keep returning to Hawaii, how they approach travel with care and curiosity, and what made their manta ray experience unexpectedly impactful. It’s a conversation about slowing down, traveling with intention, and bringing a little of the Aloha Spirit back home.

In this episode:

• Chris’s approach to sustainable travel and experiencing places from a local’s perspective 
• How to cut through online noise and figure out which experiences are actually worth your time
• Why choosing fewer, better experiences often leads to deeper trust and more meaningful moments
• Carrying lessons from travel back home: slowing down, consuming more thoughtfully, and being more aware of everyday choices

Key moments:

(00:00) Intro and living in landlocked Nebraska

(04:37) Swimming with manta rays during a stressful season

(05:20)  Learning about Hawaii from locals, not guidebooks

(08:19)  Choosing responsible travel experiences 

(10:05)  A magical moment in the water with the manta rays

(17:09)  "Serial research" and planning trips with intention 

(18:16)  Going beyond the guidebooks and maximizing your travel experience

(26:51)  Reading between the lines of online reviews

(32:48)  How preparation and experience create trust on the water

(38:02)  What indigenous cultures reveal about sustainability

(42:19)  Feeling more tuned into the planet after time in Hawaii

(44:39)  Aloha as a way of living, not just a greeting

Resources

• Episode page and resources: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/chris-intentional-travel
• Get Martina’s emails: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter
• More about manta rays on https://mantarayadvocates.com
• Watch the full video on YouTube

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What does it mean to experience nature without expecting something in return? In this episode, Martina and honors undergraduate student Rowan Daugherty explore that question through the lens of environmental ethics, drawing on Rowan’s academic work and a manta swim that echoed those ideas. Together, they examine how technology and consumer expectations shape our experiences and why shifting away from a human-centered mindset matters.

In this episode:

• How expectations influence our experience of nature, and what happens when we let them go
• Why technology and social media subtly distance us from real connection with the natural world
• The difference between a human-centered and eco-centered way of moving through the world
• What environmental ethics looks like outside the classroom, in everyday choices and habits

Key Moments:

(00:00) Meeting through the manta swim 

(02:51) Rethinking how we interact with nature

(04:13) An essay about "Putting the Phone Down" 

(05:32) Studying law through an environmental lens

(09:50) Technology as a barrier to connection in nature

(13:39) Turning nature into an attraction

(18:09) Aldo Leopold's ecocentric vs. egocentric philosophy

(21:45) Being out of your comfort zone in nature

(24:05) Thinking about your own environmental ethic

Resources:

• Episode page and resources: oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/rowan-daugherty-technology-vs-nature

• Get Martina’s emails: oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter

• More about manta rays on mantarayadvocates.com  

• Watch the full video on YouTube 

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Hawaii State Rep. Nicole Lowen talks about how laws get made and why ocean conservation policy moves so slowly. From regulating ocean recreation to renewable energy, this is what it takes to turn environmental concerns into action.

Why do environmental regulations take so long, even when there's public support? In this episode, Hawaii State Representative Nicole Lowen pulls back the curtain on the legislative process and shares what happens behind the scenes when we try to protect our oceans.

Rep. Lowen chairs the Energy and Environmental Protection Committee and has spent over a decade working on renewable energy, ocean conservation, and waste management policy. She walks us through what a state representative does, how committee assignments work, and the departments like DLNR and DOBOR that oversee our natural resources.

The conversation discusses the long process of ocean recreation regulation in Hawaii. Despite a 2014 resolution calling for mandatory industry regulation, a tragic death in 2022, and widespread concern about overcrowding at popular manta ray dive locations, rules still haven't been implemented - and Rep. Lowen explains why.

We also explore Hawaii's renewable energy: the 100% clean energy goal by 2045, the closure of the last coal plant, the expansion of solar farms, and the potential for geothermal. Rep. Lowen discusses where Hawaii is ahead of schedule and where we're struggling, as well as ongoing challenges with cesspools, waste management, and invasive species.

This episode is for anyone who's frustrated by the slow pace of environmental progress and wants to understand how the system actually works. If you care about ocean conservation and want to move beyond individual action to influence policy, this conversation will help you understand how each of us can engage with the process.

KEY MOMENTS

(00:00) Intro

(01:38) What does a lawmaker actually do? The four buckets of the job

(04:10) How Rep. Lowen "fell into" politics after working at the legislature

(08:29) The committee system: how you get appointed and who has power

(10:23) Conservation as the heart of the work—ocean, land, and everything connected

(13:40) Hawaii's renewable energy progress: where we're ahead and where we're behind

(17:50) Why ocean recreation still isn't regulated after 11+ years

(22:30) The tragedy that reopened the conversation in 2022

(24:35) The surf lesson lottery disaster and why fair regulation is so hard

(27:51) The decade of decisions: why this moment matters

RESOURCES

• Episode page and resources: oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/rep-nicole-lowen

• Get Martina’s emails: oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter

• More about manta rays on mantarayadvocates.com  

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At age 12, Ashley Jacob knew she wanted to work with marine mammals. Her path there took her through elephant seal fieldwork, challenging funding landscapes, and an unplanned move across the Pacific. Today, she's a marine scientist guiding manta ray swims in Hawaii. Her story shows how persistence and a clear sense of purpose often matter more than any perfect plan.

• How Ashley’s early love of the ocean and animals evolved into a career in conservation and manta ray advocacy
• Choosing research, outreach, and education over aquarium work, and why following your values can get you further than a perfect plan
• How a single wildlife encounter can shift perspective in lasting ways
• Why you don’t need to be a large company to make a meaningful impact in conservation
• Practical advice for anyone who wants to build a career in marine science 

Key moments:

(00:00) Introduction 

(03:25) How a childhood film sparked Ashley's marine mammal career 

(07:00) Marine biology at Humboldt 

(11:34) Scientific diving and choosing conservation education over aquarium work

(16:05) Elephant seal fieldwork on California's Lost Coast 

(20:34) Elephant seal migration patterns 

(23:25) Florida shark and ray tagging 

(26:21) Moving to Hawaii for work 

(30:47) Finding Manta Ray Advocates and aligning work with personal values

(35:43) What makes manta ray encounters so transformative 

(38:20) Ashley's advice for building a career in marine science

Episode page and resources: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/ashley-marine-biologist

Get Martina’s emails: oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter

More about manta rays on mantarayadvocates.com 

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Marine biologist Dawn Murray sits down with Martina Wing for two hours of conversation about manta rays. Martina shares 27 years of experience with Hawaii's reef manta rays, from identifying individuals by their belly patterns to navigating the current challenges of sustainable manta tourism. Dawn asks the questions a marine educator wants answered, and Martina provides insights from nearly three decades above and below.

In this episode, you’ll learn about:

• What we know (and don't know) about manta ray reproduction
• Manta rays movement ranges and individual behaviors
• The gracious and acrobatic manta ray feeding patterns
• Martina’s mission to make manta tours safer and more sustainable
• The "superpower" of manta rays: pushing trauma forward for healing

You’ll get to know the individual mantas Martina’s gotten to know and love, hear about civilians and scientists who’ve helped uncover some of the mysteries surrounding the gentle giants of the ocean, along with some manta ray mythbusting. 

Key moments:

(1:46) Martina's origin story: from deep grief to manta rays
(8:13) Evolution from underwater videographer to shore-based tour operator
(13:48) How do we identify and track individual manta rays?
(28:22) The birth and early development of manta rays
(46:15) Manta ray filter-feeding behavior and patterns
(52:57) Dangers and threats to manta rays in Hawaii and globally
(59:14) Why is manta ray tourism such a controversial topic right now?
(01:05:00) Stories of manta ray courtship and pregnancy
(01:10:55) Mythbusting: manta rays don’t turn off their brains to swim
(01:11:13) Manta ray predators and why mantas are hard to catch
(01:14:16) Movement range and the Pavlov effect, continued at (1:25:53)
(01:20:12) Does the moon affect manta ray movement patterns? Continued at (01:21:32)
(01:20:30) The third species of manta rays, officially recognized last summer (2025) 
(01:23:47) Do manta rays eat jellyfish?
(01:29:41) The partnership with Jim, speaking up about safety and manta tour regulations
(01:51:48) Sharing the magical experience of swimming with manta rays

This episode is for anyone who wants to understand manta ray behavior and cares about sustainable ocean tourism and conservation. 

Episode page and resources: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/episode/dawn-martina-manta-deep-dive

Get Martina’s emails: https://oceanwingspodcast.com/newsletter

More about manta rays on mantarayadvocates.com 

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Ocean Wings is a podcast about conservation, civic courage and the ripple effect of nature. Tune in weekly for real stories of how manta ray magic leads to positive action, personal healing and meaningful change.