OCF Crosspoint Podcast

Episode Summary

Every generation complains about the one coming behind it, and for today's military leaders, much of that frustration lands on Gen Z. My guest this episode, Sarah Carter, is a U.S. Merchant Marine Academy graduate and former Navy P-3 and P-8 pilot who finished her service as executive officer of the President's Emergency Operations Center in the White House Military Office. She now coaches leaders with Arrowhead Leadership Consulting (arrowhead-leadership.com) and has presented at the Caleb Challenge Career Transition Strategies Workshop at OCF's White Sulphur Springs.

Carter explains how a generation raised with more structure, supervision, and adult involvement had fewer chances to develop five critical skills, and why the military is well suited to building several of them. She offers practical guidance for officers leading young service members, for leaders transitioning into civilian roles, and for Gen Zers themselves. The goal isn't lowering standards—it's becoming more deliberate about preparing people to meet them.

Related episode: For more on career transition, listen to Maj Gen Pete Peterson, USAF (Ret.), in "Not wrong or right, just left or right": Planning ahead for career transitions.

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

What skills is Gen Z missing?

Many Gen Z adults have had fewer opportunities to develop five critical skills: creativity, problem-solving, independence, autonomy, and communication (including socialization). The gap traces back to childhood. Carter points to the 1981 abduction of Adam Walsh. Amplified by a new 24-hour news cycle and later America's Most Wanted, it left many parents afraid to send kids outside to play. This began a decline in outdoor play through the 1990s and into the early 2000s, hindering certain types of creativity and imaginative play. Indoors, a stick can no longer become a sword or an oar, and single-purpose toys replace imagination. A child holds up a juice box and a caregiver opens it—no problem-solving or words required. Early video games at least had a wire that kept kids on the same couch talking; today's gamers can play strangers anywhere in the country and beyond without saying a word. Leaders who feel like they're parenting young employees are partly right. Carter calls it developing and an opportunity to help them grow "not just in your company or your military unit, but in their lifetime."

What do leaders get wrong about Gen Z?

Common complaints about Gen Z—that they're lazy, avoid eye contact, can't communicate without a phone or laptop, and just don't "get it"—are often misdiagnoses of something else, such as unclear priorities or inexperience. Take laziness. Carter advises leaders to "check your priorities and how you've communicated them." A young person who doesn't know your priorities may be focused on something they see as more important, and look lazy as a result. Limited eye contact usually reflects inexperience and uncertainty. Until now, most Gen Zers have related to adults as teachers or coaches. Those were transactional relationships with no expectation of ever reaching a level playing field. A professional setting is the first place they're expected to grow toward near-peer relationships. That's trainable. Set the expectation early: "One day you're going to be where I am. We're going to have a more near-peer conversation. How I'll note your understanding is you looking at me."

Why does Gen Z ask "why"?

Usually out of inexperience, not pushback. When the situation allows, the best response is to answer it. Many young officers and enlisted members don't yet see the big picture or where they fit in it. Their schooling also taught them that asking why gets them the answer for the test, so an early "why" can sound like they're hunting for one. Carter remembers asking why as a young ensign and hearing, "You don't need to know right now." Previous generations largely accepted a keep-your-head-down approach, but that no longer cuts it. A Gen Zer who doesn't get an answer can chase another opportunity, search the Internet, or ask peers. Depending on how jaded those peers are, the answer may not be the one you want them to hear. Explaining isn't always appropriate, but when it is, answering why fills the knowledge gap and earns buy-in.

How do I develop a junior officer who needs constant direction?

Start with self-reflection, then replace instructions with questions. Carter asks frustrated leaders: Did you have it all figured out when you were in their spot? She points to photos of herself as a brand-new ensign covered head to toe in mud and riding a tricycle in her flight suit—hardly setting the leadership example. Next, examine how you communicated expectations. If the honest answer is "they should have just known," that's not the right answer. Then ask for their thought process: What are you considering? What's the end state? How will we achieve it? What am I missing? What more do you need from me? That turns direction into "a dialogue and not just a dictation," jumpstarting problem-solving. To keep development from sliding into micromanagement, set a timeline (weekly developmental conversations for three or six months, for example) and a clear expectation of what they should handle on their own.

How do veterans lead Gen Z employees in a civilian job?

Recognize that the inexperience runs both ways, then lean on the planning skills that military service built. Even a very experienced leader is inexperienced in the civilian realm, so the friction is mutual. Carter suggests turning "why" back around: Why are you going about it that way? What are you really asking? Also ask the people you lead what they expect of you; the answer may be very different from the military's. Even "I don't know, bro" is a good answer—it lets you tell them what they can expect. The most valuable skill to carry over is planning. The military lays out a "golden path" for progression; the civilian world doesn't do a great job with that. When an assistant site manager Carter coaches said his promotion goal was to "communicate better," she asked, "How are we going to do it?" That deeper digging is what military people are conditioned to do.

How can Gen Z succeed in their first job?

Take ownership of building relationships, learning the organization, and asking the questions you need answered. Many Gen Zers join an organization based on a job description or mission statement they read online. When it isn't what they expected, they leave quickly. Carter's question for them: How much time did you invest in actually getting to know the organization? Relationships at work also look different. They're no longer transactional, like those with teachers and coaches. Instead, they're a new type of relationship you have to develop. Also, don't expect answers to simply show up, the way they did when an assignment meant reading textbook pages 10 through 87 for a test. "Now it's on you to ask the questions to get the information that you need to grow." Before you ask, reflect on what you're really trying to learn, so your question gets at the heart of it.

Highlights Summary

If work-life balance is a bad word, then what should we call it instead? And what happens when you get the decision wrong? Those two questions surfaced in a short interview debrief with Lt Col Jeff Miller, USAF (Ret.), after the formal conversation had wrapped up but before we stopped recording. When pressed on what should replace the word balance—since even "integration" still smuggles balance back in—Miller lands on three words: live on mission.

Military duty and family both become parts of that mission rather than two things weighed against each other, and Proverbs 3:5–6 becomes the path from a convoluted decision to a straight one.

Miller then turns to something driven, objective-oriented officers often need to hear: God doesn't value getting every decision right. He values your heart. Miller, an OCF local leader for ROTC at Mississippi State University, spent 34 years in the Air Force.

Questions answered and themes covered in this segment include:

What should a Christian pursue instead of work-life balance?

Live on mission for Jesus with military duty and family both understood as parts of that mission rather than two things weighed against each other. Jeff Miller landed on this phrasing after concluding that even "integration" still implies balance, and that the pull toward balance is really a desire to run your own agenda and keep life under control. He anchors the alternative in Proverbs 3:5–6: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, do not lean on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths." Miller reads that progressively: first trusting God with the outcomes you fear will fail, then refusing to map out the chain of career moves that supposedly leads where you want, and then honoring what God values. The result is a straight path instead of a twisted one, and the confidence to explain your decisions to a spouse or to your fellowship.

Will God still use me if I make the wrong career decision?

Yes. God does not value career performance, perfection, or getting every decision right—he values your heart. Miller observes that military officers are driven, objective-oriented, and pursuing excellence, and that those instincts follow them into spiritual life, where they can harden into a sense that a wrong turn disqualifies you. He compares it instead to a father who wouldn't reject a child for a mistake, but receives them, course-corrects, and keeps working. The response to a wrong decision is to acknowledge it, repent to your family and to the Lord, and humbly start over. Miller adds that the destination we enter is often not the one God wanted in the first place, which is precisely why we hear "recalculating." God has prepared work for us to walk in and will get us there; our part is to cooperate early and often.

OCF Crosspoint Show Notes with Lt Col Jeff Miller, USAF (Ret.)

Opening Summary

"How does a Christian in the military achieve balance between work and family?" A cadet asked Lt Col Jeff Miller, USAF (Ret.), that question during a panel event for ROTC, and after 34 years in the Air Force, 34 years of marriage, and four children, Jeff realized he didn't have a good answer. Neither did the seasoned officers around him. One active-duty squadron commander admitted he felt like he was failing his family, his squadron, and Jesus every day.

That unsettling moment sent Miller into a study of Scripture that reframed the question entirely. Instead of balance, he offers a different word: ascendancy—Christ's priority so eclipsing every other priority that his values become yours, and those values guide every competing decision. Miller, an OCF local leader for ROTC at Mississippi State University, unpacks that framework, what biblical rest is, and how to discern a hard season from an unsustainable one.

A companion Bible study by Jeff Miller on this topic is in editing and will be posted at ocfusa.org soon—link to follow. Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

How does a Christian in the military balance work and family?

Balance is likely the wrong goal. The nature of military service does not lend itself to balance, and what most people are seeking when they seek balance is control—a life that feels manageable. Jeff Miller describes it as sitting on a seesaw waiting for someone of equal weight, only to have an 800-pound gorilla drop onto the other end: a national crisis, a deployment, a command billet where you are effectively owned by the organization, a child with special needs, or a personal struggle you brought on yourself. None of those are within your control. Miller's own attempt to answer the question from a panel stage amounted to little more than warning cadets to tell their future spouse what they were getting into. The better question, he concluded, is not how to balance two priorities but whether Christ is ascendant over both.

How do I put Christ first in a demanding military career?

Study Christ closely enough to know what he values and let those values decide the tradeoffs because when his values become yours, you can ask which principle he values most in this moment. Putting Christ first means letting him ascend over, eclipse, and swallow up every other priority, including family. Jeff Miller calls this ascendancy, drawing on Luke 14, where Jesus says that anyone who loves family more than him cannot be his disciple, and on the parables of the pearl and the hidden treasure, where the finder sells everything without hesitating (Matthew 13:44–46). Practically, ascendancy works like this: when you study Christ closely enough to know what he values, his values become yours, and you can ask which principle he values most in this moment. Sometimes the answer is that military duty takes precedence and family runs at a temporary deficit; at other times, it might mean the opposite. Miller admits he entered service with Christ merely augmenting his own agenda; ascendancy means Christ is the agenda. Single service members can ask the same question of work and life.

What's the difference between Biblical rest and taking time off?

Rest is not the cessation of movement. In Matthew 11:28–30, Jesus invites the weary to take his yoke—an instrument of work—and learn from him, promising rest for their souls. Jeff Miller notes that taking a master's yoke in that culture meant submitting to that master's instruction: put yourself under my program, and I'll show you how to find rest. That reframes Sabbath. Getting away from the workplace or doing nothing at all isn't the point; ceasing normal activity in order to reflect on what God has done, what he has given you strength to do, and who he is (and to give thanks) is the point. Family fun is good but a distant second. Miller confesses that his beach vacations used to be packed so full that he came home exhausted, having never sat still to watch the sun come up and meditate on God's Word.

How can a Christian find rest during a high ops tempo or deployment?

Rest travels with you. In a high-tempo environment, the rhythm of a weekly Sabbath may not be available, but daily rest is, even if found only in 5-minute increments. Military life has hurry-up-and-wait moments built into it: heavy information loads and rapid decisions, then a pause. Jeff Miller's counsel is to memorize Scripture so that you have something to reflect on in those pauses, to thank God for the surge he just carried you through, and to ask for help with what's ahead. Waiting for a deployed chapel service or a real day off usually means waiting a long time. Miller applies the same principle in retirement: he swims laps for half an hour daily, where there's no conversation and nothing to look at, and meditates on Scripture—coming out physically rested and spiritually restored.

How do I know if a demanding assignment is God's calling or not?

Three sources of guidance apply: God's Word, the Holy Spirit, and the counsel of wise people around you. God's Word tells you what God values, which is the starting point for sorting through competing priorities. Jeff Miller adds a hard question to weigh alongside it: can anyone else fill your role? In general, someone can almost always fill your place in the military, but no one will ever fill your place as a husband, wife, mother, or father. The Holy Spirit teaches, but struggles to speak to someone who isn't in the Word and hasn't taken the time to ask. And wise counsel requires actually being in fellowship, which is difficult when you move every one to three years. This is one reason Miller points to the OCF network for relationships that cross assignments and miles. After weighing all three, you have to act, and the action may be drastic.

Can a Christian officer step back from career advancement and still be faithful?

Yes. If God calls you to separate or slow down, you should do it, and he will take care of you. Jeff Miller is one example: he stepped off the fast track and moved to the reserves, serving in seasons that ranged from six days a month to full-time as an Air Reserve technician. That pace let him meet his obligations at home while staying in uniform for 34 years and walking alongside young officers. He also describes a friend who left active duty for the airlines specifically because Christ was ascendant, using the income to support ministry and the travel benefits for long-term mission work overseas. Miller acknowledges the cost: he watched classmates reach flag rank and felt the envy. But he wouldn't trade the joy of serving quietly and helping younger commanders succeed.

Opening Summary

COL Chels Chae, USA (Ret.), served nearly 30 years in the Army, from West Point graduate, infantry officer and 75th Ranger Regiment veteran to commander of the Wolfhound Battalion at Schofield Barracks. He finished his career as Chief of Staff for Joint Task Force Homeland Defense and Deputy Chief of Staff for U.S. Army Pacific. For 13 of those years, he and his wife, Christine, walked through their son's mental health crisis, a season no military school prepared him for. In this episode, Chae talks with host Josh Jackson about the difference between competence and dependence, why his prayers once sounded like mission briefings, and how a solitary drive to a hospital in Pasadena, Calif., reshaped the way he talks to God. If you've been trained to project strength while privately carrying something you can't fix, this conversation offers a hard-won picture of God's providence—usually visible only in the rearview mirror. Chae is the author of the devotional One Life Under God: Back to Faith—A Daily Roadmarch. More information at his author site.

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

How do you find your identity in Christ after retiring from the military?

Start by separating who you are from what you've done. Rank, position, and assignment all change; identity in Christ doesn't. Twenty years ago, Chae says, he would have answered the identity question with "I'm an Army officer, I'm a Ranger, airborne." Today he answers first as a follower of Jesus Christ, then as Christine's husband and a father—and everything else, he says, is simply something he has done. That reordering came shortly after retirement, when he realized someone else was sitting in his office, someone else was commanding his units, and life just kept moving. He describes God asking him a direct question in that season: "Who are you now?" Titles were never meant to define him. They were window dressing.

Why do my prayers feel like a mission briefing?

Because military training teaches you to arrive with the problem already solved—and that habit follows you into prayer. Chae's prayers, by his own account, followed the briefing format: explain the problem, present the proposed solution, ask God to bless the plan. He wasn't intentionally excluding God; he simply assumed he already understood what needed to happen. The danger of leadership, he says, is believing that a careful enough plan and enough hard work can solve almost anything. Eventually a season arrived where no rank, no leadership training, no planning process, and no amount of grit produced an answer. He now calls that one of the greatest gifts God gave him, because it taught him the difference between competence and dependence—and mature Christian leadership, he argues, requires both.

How do I trust God when I can't fix my child's problem?

You trust God's character instead of your own ability to solve it. Chae and Christine walked a 13-year journey with a son in a mental health crisis, initially diagnosed as a lifelong condition. From the outside, the family looked fine—promotions, a strong marriage, active in church. Inside, he faced something none of his skills touched: gathering information, developing courses of action, deciding, leading. He kept asking God to change the circumstances and heal his son; looking back, he believes God was changing him instead, exposing where he trusted his own ability over God's authority and sovereignty. Faith, as he defines it, isn't confidence in what you hold in your hands—it's confidence that God remains good whether you understand his plan or not. What held them together was finding a private place and praying out loud together.

How do you pray when you're angry at God?

Pray honestly, without a mask—anger, tears, and unanswered questions included. Chae's most formative prayer wasn't composed or reverent. He was alone in a car, driving to the hospital where his son was, yelling and weeping, asking God why an innocent child at the very start of his life had to go through this. In the silence afterward, he sensed God's answer: "Now you know how you should pray to me." He anchors this in Psalm 22, which he says gives him permission to be honest with God without pretense or protocol. If David (and later Jesus) could say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Psalm 22:1), nothing needs hiding from a God who already sees the heart. The same season changed what he asks for—less "fix this, Lord," more "what do you want to teach me today?"

How do you know God's will for your future as a Christian?

Stop trying to figure out God's plan for 10 years from now and start walking faithfully with him today. God is the only one who lives on what Chae calls "the far side of the future"—he already knows tomorrow, and the lamp you're holding only lights the ground directly in front of you. Chae tells the story of a young manager who had decided he'd change jobs in a year; Chae asked whether every decision between now and then would be colored by that plan. A week later the man dropped it and committed to being faithful to his team—"Don't worry, God's got you." Chae's own summary of Jesus is blunt: don't worry about tomorrow, seek the kingdom of God and his righteousness (Matthew 6:33-34). Give today the effort God assigned you, and be able to say you were loyal to it.

Why can't I see God's plan while I'm going through it?

You usually don't see it in the moment—you see it looking back. Chae puts it this way: nothing in the windshield helped him figure out what the future held for his sons or his family. But in the rearview mirror he sees all of it—God's faithfulness, goodness, and purpose he couldn't have identified while he was living it. He describes being embarrassed, in hindsight, by how much energy he spent on the horrifying feeling of not knowing what came next, only to look back and say, "Oh. Okay. Now I see." His own immigration story reads the same way: born in London, back to Korea, then to New York and Chicago at 12 as his father chased a better education for the family. He didn't recognize God's providence at the time. He sees it now. Asked what he'll say first in heaven, his answer is one word—aha—because that's where he'll finally see all of it.

Editor's note: In this episode, the passage about going into your room and closing the door to pray is cited as Matthew 5. The correct reference is Matthew 6:6, part of Jesus' teaching on prayer in the Sermon on the Mount.

Summary

Can real discipleship survive in a world of influencers, algorithms, and unlimited Christian content—especially inside a transient military life?

In this episode of OCF Crosspoint, we continue the conversation on influencer culture with Lt Gen Clint Hinote, USAF (Ret.), and CH(COL) Light Shin, USA. Together they draw a sharp line between being inspired, informed, and truly discipled, and explain why spiritual formation depends on proximity, accountability, and community rather than content consumed alone.

They tackle discipleship amid PCS moves and deployments, what it means to point others to Christ rather than yourself in uniform, and why grace—not performance—sustains it all. The episode closes with one practical first step any Christian military leader can take this week.

Resources mentioned:

• The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
• The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

How can Christians in the military stay discipled through frequent moves and deployments?

Frequent moves, deployments, and training cycles make the in-person proximity that discipleship requires harder, but a transient military life also creates constant opportunities because new people are always arriving and need to be welcomed. The practical key is welcoming the stranger: those already established at a base should intentionally invite newcomers into a small group, offer a meal, even offer to pick them up. Practical advice for newcomers? Don't wait; get plugged in fast. This is a strong argument for keeping small groups open rather than closed. Discipleship also doesn't have to last a lifetime to be real. Jesus discipled His followers for about three years, roughly a single assignment cycle, so the quality of the time matters more than its length. Video tools can also help sustain a relationship after a PCS.

What does "follow me as I follow Christ" mean for a Christian military leader?

For a Christian military leader, "follow me as I follow Christ" is first something you do rather than something you say. You live your faith out consistently, and that example earns the credibility to explain it when others notice you're different. When people ask what makes you different, you point past yourself to Christ, admitting you're imperfect and fail often but are genuinely trying to follow Him—a 1 Peter 3:15 moment. The deeper aim isn't building a personal brand but acting as a signpost pointing to Christ as the ultimate Commander, much like faithfully carrying out the commander's intent. Following the Apostle Paul's example also means imitating a life that lays down its rights, absorbs costs, serves others, and is willing to suffer well—not one measured by worldly success. Philippians 2 is an excellent chapter for further study on these themes.

Can Christians be discipled through podcasts, sermons, and Bible apps, or do they need community?

Short answer: No, content cannot disciple you. Christian content like podcasts, sermons, and Bible apps is genuinely valuable, and God can use it powerfully, but on its own it isn't discipleship because consuming content is largely one-way, while real discipleship is two-way and relational. You can't be truly formed by a curated persona or a platform; formation happens through proximity—sharing meals, offering hospitality, doing life together, and holding one another accountable. A helpful picture is apprenticeship: a master shows the apprentice, works alongside them, then releases them to do the work while staying available. That's a progression content can't replicate, especially for leadership and the Christian life. Content is best treated as supplemental to connection and grounded first in Scripture. Barna research (2022) found that 39% of Christians aren't engaged in any form of discipleship.

How is Christian discipleship based on grace instead of performance?

Christian discipleship is grounded in grace rather than performance. It isn't about earning check marks or leveling up spiritually, but about responding to what Christ has already accomplished. The means of grace include knowing and storing God's Word in your heart (not just reading it on a Bible app), living a life of repentance when you fall short, and resting your confidence in Christ's finished work rather than your own efforts. This kind of formation is slow—more like a slow cooker than a microwave—which can frustrate a culture that wants quick hacks. But it's freeing: unlike an algorithm that demands constant performance and can cancel you, the gospel means that when you fail, you're forgiven rather than canceled. That freedom is a distinct mark of grace-based discipleship.

How can a Christian start a discipleship or mentoring relationship?

A simple, concrete way to start a discipleship relationship is to invite someone to coffee—or a Coke, lunch, or a meal at home—and let honest conversation grow from there. If you're a younger or emerging leader hoping to learn from someone more experienced, invite them; most people who are worth being discipled by genuinely enjoy this and may not even realize you're interested. If you're the more seasoned leader, take the initiative with someone you'd like to know better—ask questions, get to know them, and let one conversation lead to the next until a real relationship forms. Another step is to pray, by name, for a specific person to invest in or to be invested in by. It might also be a good idea to take a fast from technology by turning off social media for a while to make space for that prayer. You can also find more information about mentoring on our website: https://ocfusa.org/mentoring

Data and metrics related to the topic:

Mental Health and the Anxious Generation:

Nearly half (47%) of Gen Z ages 12–26 report feeling anxious often or always. More than 1 in 5 (22%) report feeling depressed often or always. Source: Gallup / Walton Family Foundation survey, 2023

Rates of anxiety among Gen Z increased 134% between 2010 and 2018. Depression rose 106% in the same period. Source: Jonathan Haidt, The Anxious Generation (2024), citing epidemiological data

Loneliness and the Mentoring Gap:

Young adults (18–34) report the highest loneliness rates of any age group, which is counter to the common assumption that elderly people are most at risk. Source: Gallup, 2024; Cigna national survey

24% of young people with no adult mentor say they never feel their life has meaning and purpose. With even one adult mentor, that number drops to 6%. Source: Springtide Research Institute

Only 8% of Gen Z respondents say there is a religious leader they can turn to. Source: Springtide Research Institute

Trust: Influencers vs Institutions:

Gen Z's most trusted sources: family members (88%), friends (84%), ordinary people doing good (81%). Religious/faith leaders rank at 44% — below doctors (77%), scientists (75%), and teachers (74%). Source: Edelman Gen Z Trust Survey — 9,600 Gen Zers ages 14–24 across six markets

Confidence in religious institutions fell from 60% in 2001 to 37% in 2021. Source: Gallup, cited by AEI Survey Center on American Life (2025)

Summary

Lt Gen Clint Hinote, USAF (Ret.), and CH(COL) Light Shin, USA, join host Josh Jackson to examine influencer culture through a biblical lens. Hinote brings decades of military leadership experience and is now building a speaking ministry focused on integrating Christian faith and leadership into a single, unified message. Shin serves as an active-duty Army chaplain and father of three daughters, navigating influencer culture's effects on faith and family in real time. Both will be speaking on the theme of influence at OCF's White Sulphur Springs Conference Center this summer.

The conversation begins by establishing a biblical framework for thinking about influence—one that applies to all Christians before it applies to military officers specifically. A few key distinctions anchor everything that follows.

First, the platform versus the algorithm. Both guests agree that social media platforms are morally neutral—the tool itself is neither good nor evil. Hinote compares them to the Roman road system: the same infrastructure used to carry armies also carried the early gospel across the known world. What man built for one purpose, God can use for another. The YouVersion Bible App is offered as a contemporary example of Christians using technology with vision for gospel purposes. The algorithms driving those platforms, however, are a different matter. They are deliberately engineered not to inform or build up users, but to keep them scrolling—by targeting base impulses, feeding comparison, and manufacturing shame. Hinote frames these as the "flaming arrows" of Ephesians 6, and the first thing you see on social media that triggers envy, comparison, or temptation is an arrow. Recognize it. Raise your shield of faith.

Second, influencer versus witness. Shin draws a sharp distinction from Acts 1:8, saying that an influencer seeks to build a following but a witness tells the truth about what they have seen and heard, regardless of the audience's reaction. Both guests agree that Christian influence should be a byproduct of a Christ-centered life—not a goal pursued in its own right. When influence becomes the goal, self replaces God at the center. The framework they offer is simple: know Christ above all things, do what Christ commanded, and become more like Jesus through that ongoing, lifelong process. Influence, rightly understood, flows from that. As Shin puts it, the question worth asking regularly is: "Whose kingdom did I build today—God's or mine?"

Third, authenticity over curation. The lie of influencer culture, Hinote argues, is that you have to look like you have it all figured out. In reality, authenticity builds trust, and trust is what creates genuine influence. This is as true in the gospel as it is in personal branding, and the early church wrestled with the same pull toward following personalities over Christ, as Paul addresses directly in 1 Corinthians 1:12. The standard the guests return to throughout is 1 Peter 3:15 (ESV): "Always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you—yet do it with gentleness and respect."

With that foundation in place, the conversation turns to what this means specifically for Christian officers serving in uniform.

Referenced in this conversation:

• Summer R&R 2 at WSS (Hinote)
• Summer R&R 6 at WSS (Shin)
• YouVersion Bible App
• The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness by Timothy Keller

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include: How is social media affecting the younger generation entering military service?

Young people entering the military are increasingly shaped by a worldview centered on self-promotion, curated personas, and metrics of online acceptance. This stands in direct tension with what military formation is designed to accomplish. The foundational goal of basic training is the breakdown of individual ego and the subordination of self to the unit. Shin references Timothy Keller's The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness as the counterpoint to what he observes: recruits arriving not in freedom, but in what he calls "bondage of self-obsession"—more concerned with how they're perceived on a platform than how they're showing up for the person next to them. Hinote adds that this tension isn't new, and that American individualism has always been something the military has had to address. However, the platforms intensify that individualism by continuously reinforcing exactly the self-focused impulses that military culture is trying to dismantle. Character development must be continuous and intentional, not treated as something institutions address only when there's time. Resource: The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness by Timothy Keller How do I share my faith as a military officer without it being weird or forced?

Start by living the message before communicating it, and know which role you're speaking from at any given moment. Hinote, drawing from his own experience rising through senior military ranks, offers a framework that proved practically useful. When you are on a platform, in uniform, with rank on your shoulders and a flag behind you, you are speaking from a position of institutional authority, and conflating that authority with the authority of Christ risks manipulation and coercion, which is not Christlike leadership. In settings where you have more personal freedom—as a church member, a neighbor, a citizen—you have more latitude to speak openly about your faith. The key is empathy: always consider what role your audience sees you occupying. In either context, when you fail—and you will—own it and apologize. Authenticity builds trust. Trust creates real influence. A practical starting point Hinote recommends for any developing leader is this: keep a journal, write down every role you hold, and identify the through line connecting them all. Then live that through line. The standard throughout is 1 Peter 3:15 (ESV): "Always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you—yet do it with gentleness and respect."

Statistics and data shared this episode (plus a few extra not included):

• A working definition of influencer culture: Influencer culture is a social and economic phenomenon created when social media platforms reward people for curating a public identity, performing for engagement, and building an audience around themselves. Influencers use their platform to shape the opinions, lifestyles, and purchasing decisions of their audience.
• Every generation is influenced in some way by influencer marketing: 55% of Gen Z trust influencer recommendations, compared with 44% of Millennials, 35% of Gen X, and 28% of Baby Boomers (2025 Clutch survey).
• StoryBox says there are approximately 127 million active social media influencers worldwide—roughly 2.4% of the global social media user base of 5+ billion people.
• EMarketer breaks that down into 4 tiers of influencers: Nano: 1,000–10,000 followers; Micro: 10,000–100,000 followers; Macro: 100,000–1 million followers; and Mega/celebrity: 1 million+ followers.
• The vast majority of influencers on TikTok (nearly 88%) are nano-influencers and Instagram follows a similar pattern with nano-influencers representing about 76% of its influencers (eMarketer).
• According to some reports, military-related content on TikTok alone amassed over 15 billion views in 2023; look up #MilTok. Military.com calls it the rise of soldier influencers.
• Influencer culture is not just shaping what people buy (or which branch to join)—it's doing three things: It's shaping how an entire generation sees themselves, forms relationships, and decides who to trust. Consider the following:
• In terms of how they see themselves: Writer and Substack author Freya India, whose book GIRLS was published earlier this year, frames influencer culture this way—girls as young as 12 packaging themselves for Instagram, getting feedback on their appearance, measuring their worth in likes and followers. An adjacent stat is this: 47% of Gen Z often or always feel anxious (Gallup, 2023). That's the self-perception toll.
• In terms of forming relationships: A Harvard study says 61% of young adults ages 18–25 report profound loneliness—the highest rate of any age group. This is the one that tends to surprise people, because the assumption is that hyper-connected generations would be less lonely or that older generations would be the loneliest.
• In terms of deciding who to trust: Only 8% of Gen Z say there's a religious leader they can turn to (Springtide Research). And from Edelman—religious and faith leaders rank at 44% trust rate among Gen Z, well below doctors, scientists, and teachers. But here's the flip side: family members rank at 88% trust. The hunger for relational authority is still there and it's real. Instead, it's institutional authority that's taken a hit.

Matters of Conscience, Part 2:

In Part 2 of this two-part series, CH(CPT) Chris Erickson and West Point professor LTC Lee Robinson join host Josh Jackson to continue their candid conversation on matters of conscience for Christian military leaders.

Building on the flight line moment that closed part one (where Robinson made a split-second decision to pray after losing two soldiers) this episode gives Christian officers a practical three-step framework for navigating the gray areas where faith and military service intersect—know your boundaries, check your motives, discern your impact. Erickson also unpacks what he calls the "theology of your approach"—the conviction that a leader's beliefs need to be settled before the moment of decision arrives, not during it.

This episode is essential listening for any Christian officer wrestling with how to faithfully and effectively lead in a pluralistic military environment.

ICYMI: Listen to Part 1 of this conversation here or on your favorite podcast app.

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

How should a Christian military officer decide when it's appropriate to express faith in a professional setting?

Start with three questions: What's allowed? Why am I doing this? And how might this affect others? The legal boundaries matter, but they rarely answer the harder question, which is "it's permissible, but should I?" That's where motive becomes the real test. Robinson frames it this way: is this coming from pride, or from love? Authentic faith expression tends to emerge naturally from who you are — it doesn't need to be forced into a conversation or staged for visibility. As Erickson puts it, if your faith isn't surfacing organically in the moments that call for it, that's worth examining before asking whether the setting is the problem.

How do I figure out what God wants me to do when my faith and my military role conflict?

The answer starts before the conflict arrives. Erickson calls this working out the "theology of your approach" — going back to what you actually believe Scripture says and what you believe God is directing, so you're not improvising under pressure. He points to Romans 14 as an example: each person stands individually before God, which reframes a leader's sense of responsibility for those they lead. Having that settled conviction means you're not making it up in the moment, whether the situation is a change-of-command ceremony, a conversation about a soldier's marriage, or a policy decision that touches personal conscience.

As a Christian officer in a position of authority, how do I know if sharing my faith is genuinely motivated by love rather than self-promotion?

Examine whether what you're sharing would actually benefit the other person today, not in the abstract, and not primarily because it validates your own beliefs. Erickson uses the woman at the well in John 4 as a reference point: her testimony was compelling because it was personal and transformational, not because she had a persuasion strategy. He challenges leaders to ask: am I trying to get this person to agree with me, or am I genuinely sharing something I believe will help them? If you're having to force it into the conversation—meaning, if the Bible needs to be on the desk so people notice it—that's a signal worth sitting with. Effective faith witness, in his framing, is desirable rather than imposed.

Can a Christian officer lead prayer at a change of command or official military event?

Yes, but context should shape the approach significantly. Erickson draws a clear distinction between an invocation at a change-of-command ceremony (where attendance is mandatory and the audience holds diverse beliefs) and a Sunday chapel service where participation is voluntary. At the official function, he deliberately avoids language that would require non-Christians to engage his personal faith. At the chapel service, he's free to pray as a Christian pastor. He argues this isn't compromise; rather, it's stewardship of the chaplain's access and effectiveness. A chaplain who prays identically in both settings may win a moment of expression while losing the long-term trust that allows ministry across belief backgrounds. Robinson extends this further: as a battalion commander, he avoided leading prayer specifically because he didn't want subordinate leaders to interpret that as an authorization for them to do the same.

OCF Crosspoint is produced by Officers' Christian Fellowship and is a podcast for Christian military officers at every stage of service. Learn more about OCF at www.ocfusa.org/learnmore.

Matters of conscience, Part 1:

What does it look like for a Christian military officer to navigate the space between what's legally permissible and what's wise?

In Part 1 of this two-part series, CH(CPT) Chris Erickson, USA, an active-duty Army chaplain serving with 1-41 Infantry Battalion at Fort Carson, Colo., and LTC Lee Robinson, USA, an Army aviator and West Point professor who directs the American Politics Program, join host Josh Jackson to explore matters of conscience—those gray areas where Scripture doesn't hand you a policy memo.

Using real-world examples from their own service, including a moment on a flight line after two soldiers were killed in combat, Chris and Lee unpack how military leaders can develop a principled, faith-informed framework for decisions about expressing belief in uniform.

This episode is worth hearing if you are trying to navigate the space between religious liberty, leadership responsibility, and wise judgment in uniform, or if you have ever wondered: Should I do this—not just can I?

This is Lee's third time as a guest on OCF Crosspoint. While it isn't necessary to listen to his previous interviews, consider listening to both episodes since Chris and Lee will reference them at a few points. Listen here:

• Navigating the wall of separation between church and state
• Faithful Leadership: You won't get this perfect—and that's OK

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

What's the difference between what's legal and what's right for a Christian military leader?

A matter of conscience goes beyond what's legal—it's the harder question of what should be done. Consider Jefferson's 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists to as a way to frame things: a matter of conscience involves a conviction that civil government has no real authority over, something arrived at through reason, study, and Scripture. Another consideration is this: law is always broad by necessity, so the Christian leader has to go "three or four steps deeper" than legality. The real question isn't am I allowed to do this? but what should be done? Romans 14:5 (ESV) frames the tension well: "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." How should a Christian military leader share their leadership philosophy with a subordinate when it's rooted in their faith?

When a subordinate opens the door by asking, that's an invitation, but context still shapes how you walk through it. Robinson describes a moment in a hangar when a soldier asked about his leadership philosophy, which is rooted in his Christian faith. He shared the substance (servant leadership drawn from Scripture) without explicitly naming his faith, citing concern about using his position to compel belief, particularly with other soldiers nearby who hadn't entered the conversation. However, Erickson pushed back: when a soldier starts the conversation, that's a green light. He draws on his hospital chaplaincy experience, where the guiding principle was never to initiate faith conversations, but once someone opened the door, "that was kind of the green light for me to then share my hope or share where I come from." A shared principle when answering this question is this: let those you lead guide the conversation. A direct question from a soldier is different from a Bible on a desk or a prayer before a meeting with the latter making it difficult for a subordinate to lead that exchange in the first place. How do I know when it's appropriate to express my faith as a military officer?

Three primary questions emerge as a practical test for military leaders:

1. What is my motive? Am I seeking to promote my faith, or to genuinely serve the person in front of me? 2. Is this a public or private conversation? Has someone specifically invited me into a personal exchange, or are others who didn't ask also listening? 3. Could this—in fact or in perception—be viewed as using my position to compel others toward a belief?

Context and setting are also key. Ask, where am I? There's a meaningful difference between a hangar bay and the walk to a deployed chapel. Such situations can be "so situationally dependent," but working through these questions gives leaders a repeatable process rather than a reactive, in-the-moment guess. Here's another approach: develop your theology of approach before you're ever in the moment: "Before you ever walked into that hangar, this is what I believe," said Erickson. Is it ever appropriate for a Christian commander to pray with soldiers?

It depends on the circumstances, and even then it warrants honest reflection afterward. Robinson describes standing on a flight line after two soldiers were killed by enemy fire, looking into the faces of 38 people who "needed more." With no prior intention to pray, he offered a non-denominational prayer, but prefaced it by telling the formation: "If you're not a praying person, I certainly respect that, and you are welcome to not engage in this with me." Reflecting back, he says he would make the same call again given those specific circumstances, but he also notes he never prayed as a battalion commander; that was the chaplain's role. Erickson affirms the instinct while clarifying this distinction: Robinson wasn't promoting his faith; he was providing comfort through his faith. "Those people shared your need for comfort in that moment and received comfort from you—ironically through your religious beliefs." The motive, not the act itself, is what matters. How does a Christian officer lead people who don't share their faith?

Romans 14:12 (ESV) anchors the answer: "Each one of us will give account of himself to God." Every person—soldier and commander alike—stands individually before God, and that shapes how a leader holds the faith of those they lead. Erickson frames it this way: his approach as a battalion chaplain to more than 600 soldiers—most of whom don't share his faith—is rooted in the conviction that "I don't have to convince you to share my faith in order for me to provide comfort." Robinson adds that modeling religious pluralism within a formation (keeping personal religious expression in appropriate spaces rather than the workplace) is itself a form of witness: "Religious pluralism is our greatest moral argument to the world." The goal isn't silence about faith. It's stewardship of the platform.

Guest Spotlight:

Approximately 60% of active-duty officers commission through ROTC programs at more than 1,500 colleges and universities—making campus ministry to cadets and midshipmen a strategic mission field.

In this episode of the OCF Crosspoint podcast, we hear from John Hoyman, OCF's Director of ROTC Ministry and a 30-year Army veteran (Active Duty, National Guard, and Army Reserve), about the renewed vision and momentum in ROTC outreach.

John shares his personal connection to OCF, why evangelism and discipleship are central to his vision, what he is witnessing spiritually among cadets and midshipmen, and how OCF members can tangibly invest in the next generation of Christ-following officers.

If you are an active duty, Guard, Reserve officer, retiree, or ROTC cadet wondering how faith intersects with military leadership, this conversation offers both encouragement and clear next steps.

Learn more: https://www.ocfusa.org/rotc Contact: [email protected]

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

1. Why is Christian evangelism and discipleship in ROTC programs essential for future military officers?

John explains that his vision for ROTC Ministry begins with "evangelism and discipleship." His first priority is "how do we bring cadets and midshipmen to Christ and then build that relationship and help them become more Christ-like." Because these students are preparing to lead in the military, their faith decisions now will shape their entire careers.

While he affirms the value of campus ministries such as Cru, Navigators, and Baptist Student Union, he emphasizes that OCF uniquely helps cadets think about "how to apply their coming profession in their spiritual life." ROTC ministry allows them to ask, "How do they become an officer that represents Christ?" It also connects them to a lifelong fellowship that continues beyond graduation and throughout a military career.

2. What is God doing spiritually among ROTC cadets and midshipmen right now?

John describes the current season as "total excitement." He points to the Eastern ROTC Retreat, which has exceeded previous attendance—filling both the Heritage House and the Harrison House with a waitlist still growing weeks before the event. He sees "an outpouring of people that want to grow in their faith… find out who Jesus Christ is… connect with other believers."

Beyond numbers, he highlights student initiative. Cadets are stepping into leadership, asking how to start fellowships, and seeking to serve younger students. He also observes "a renewed interest in spiritual things," with young people asking deeper questions—not just about occupation, but about purpose and truth. John calls it "an exciting time to be in this ministry."

3. How can a Christian military officer disciple and mentor ROTC cadets in a practical way?

John shares a simple framework from former ROTC Director Tom Hemingway: "Find a cadet, pray daily, communicate weekly, and meet monthly." He encourages active-duty officers, retirees, and even those in graduate school near campuses to invest in one-on-one mentoring and discipleship relationships.

He describes what he calls the "OCF diaspora"—officers who retire or relocate and may unknowingly live near a university with an ROTC program. Even visiting a campus Bible study once a month can be impactful. John notes that his own monthly investment at Penn State has been spiritually refreshing, saying it was "really refreshing to see these young people seeking Christ." Those interested can email John ([email protected]) to explore involvement.

4. Why does OCF provide unique Christian fellowship continuity for officers throughout their military careers?

John explains that while cadets should find a local church during school and after commissioning, military life often involves frequent moves and limited continuity. OCF offers a network that "carries with you past your undergraduate years into a vital relationship with other believers throughout your career."

Unlike most campus ministries that naturally conclude after graduation, OCF fellowship continues into active duty and even retirement. John highlights how retired officers can later reinvest in ROTC ministry, creating a generational cycle of mentorship. This continuity helps officers integrate faith with profession over the long term, rather than compartmentalizing their spiritual lives from their leadership responsibilities.

5. How are Christian military ministries collaborating to serve ROTC cadets more effectively?

John emphasizes a spirit of cooperation rather than competition among ministries serving ROTC students. He references collaboration with Valor (Cru's ministry to ROTC students) and leaders such as David Preston and CH(MAJ) Jeff Struecker, USA (Ret.), including work on a film series addressing the moral ramifications of killing from a Christian perspective.

He describes "a cool synergy" between young cadets eager to grow in Christ and seasoned officers who have sought to honor Christ in their careers. From retreats to weekly calls to shared leadership at programs like Rocky Mountain High, John says there is consistent partnership happening behind the scenes. He expresses gratitude for standing "on the shoulders of giants" who have built strong inter-ministry relationships.

Key Takeaway:

John hopes listeners remember that "God is doing a work among college students right now." There is a present opportunity for investing in the spiritual lives of future military leaders. Whether through prayer, mentoring, or partnership, OCF members are invited to join that work while the door is open.

OCF Ministry News:

Enjoy an impactful Conference Center visit: If you're looking for an opportunity to hit the pause button and reconnect with loved ones, consider a summer program at White Sulphur Springs (Manns Choice, Pa.) or Spring Canyon (Buena Vista, Colo.).

Support OCF during your visits to the grocery store: Find out if a store near you is eligible, enroll using OCF's organization number, then shop as normal to contribute effortlessly to OCF's mission and vision at no added cost to you.

Share your life updates: Visit ocfusa.org/deployment to let us know about an ongoing or upcoming deployment. Visit ocfusa.org/update to let us know of a change in rank, duty status, contact information, or something else.

Guest Spotlight

What does it look like to lead with foresight in an uncertain world, and what does Scripture say about it?

Lt Gen Clint Hinote, USAF (Ret.), who served as the Air Force's futurist, joins host Josh Jackson to explore future-minded leadership from both a military and biblical perspective. Drawing on his experience leading organizational change during the rise of China as a military power, Hinote unpacks how Christian leaders at every level can develop long-term vision, navigate resistance to change, discern God's calling over time, and guard against the pride that blinds.

This episode is for any Christian officer—or everyday leader—wrestling with how to lead wisely when the future is anything but clear.

Questions answered and themes covered in this interview include:

How can a Christian leader think strategically about the future without claiming to know God's prophetic plan?

Strategic foresight isn't prophecy—it's disciplined preparation in the face of uncertainty. A futurist reads signals about where the world is heading, examines an organization's strengths and weaknesses against that backdrop, and builds scenarios that help leaders make wise decisions today. Some signals are strong enough to act on with confidence; others require humility and flexibility. The biblical principle at work is vision, not foreknowledge, but a compelling picture of a future worth working toward. Consider Jesus investing in 12 unlikely disciples. From a worldly perspective, that investment looked foolish. But He had a vision for what those people would become and for what they would build, and He made decisions accordingly. Future-minded leadership does the same: it acts today in light of what could unfold tomorrow.

How should a Christian leader lead change when the organization has experienced significant success doing things the old way?

The hardest change to lead is the change that follows success because success makes the case for staying the course. The key is helping people see that not changing carries its own risk. If an adversary is investing in ways that negate your strengths, and you keep training the same way and buying the same equipment, you will lose. Nobody wants to lose. The why behind the change has to be communicated clearly and repeatedly—not just the destination, but the reason the current path leads somewhere no one wants to go. And once people are convinced of the why, the leader has to go further: "What do I do different? I'm sitting at my computer answering emails. What do you want me to do different?" Conviction about tomorrow has to connect to actionable steps today. Explaining the reasoning behind change is simply a way of communicating respect in that it signals that the people being led are valued, not just directed.

What are biblical examples of leaders who had a future-minded vision and acted on it?

Paul's vision for the early church is one of the clearest examples of future-minded leadership in Scripture. He held a conviction that the gospel was for everyone—not only the Jewish people, but Gentiles across the known world—and he did the practical work to make that vision real. He traveled, communicated, and built a network of fellow workers: Barnabas, Timothy, and others who spread the message one relationship at a time, one conversation at a time. The early church didn't grow because Paul had a strategy document. It grew because he had a compelling vision and took concrete steps toward it, even without knowing exactly how it would unfold. That combination—clear vision, practical action, and a willingness to build toward something not yet visible—is what future-minded Christian leadership looks like in any era.

What are the warning signs that a leader is casting vision without God's guidance?

Pride and arrogance are the clearest warning signs, and they are more common, and more subtle, than most leaders want to admit. The higher the rank, the harder it becomes for others to offer genuine critique. Without honest feedback, false confidence grows: the leader becomes convinced their vision is right, their judgment is sound, and they can do no wrong. This is the Pharisees' pattern. They were doing many things right—working to uphold God's law and demonstrate its importance to the people—but over time, a shared prideful mindset left them unable to hear correction or see where they were actually taking those they led. That arrogance blinds, and in most cases, a significant fall follows. The antidote is deliberately creating space for honest, contrary voices and remaining genuinely open to them.

How do you discern if a calling from God requires immediate action or a longer season of preparation?

Both are legitimate, and learning to recognize the difference is part of walking closely with God. Some callings arrive as a sudden, undeniable inner conviction—a tug that says, "I have to do this now." Others settle in gradually, such as a vision that won't leave, that doesn't yet make practical sense, but grows clearer over time. Nehemiah is a useful example of the slow burn. He didn't arrive in Jerusalem the day he was released by the king. He had been preparing—mentally, logistically—long before he made the journey. He had a list of provisions and construction materials ready to go when the king asked. For either type of calling, the counsel is the same: pray, stay attentive, and talk to people you trust who are themselves walking with God. God is not trying to hide His will. If He's calling you to something, He will make it clear.

What does the Bible say about making wise decisions as a leader facing an uncertain future?

Proverbs counsels seeking multiple advisors, and that principle is as practical today as it is ancient. Wise future-minded leadership begins with creating a genuine safe space where people can present ideas, offer honest critique, and work through disagreement respectfully. The leader's role is to facilitate that process, not suppress it. Once a decision is made, it doesn't have to be permanent, and most decisions are not one-way doors. If evidence later shows a different path is better, adjusting course is not failure; it's learning. Organizations that thrive in uncertainty tend to be the ones flexible enough to change direction when the evidence warrants it, combining conviction about the vision with humility about the path.

Mentioned in this episode:

• White Sulphur Springs' Summer R&R #2, during which Clint will serve as the guest speaker
• "Good leadership lifts others": Practical truths for Biblical leadership, Part 1 / October 2025
• "No perfect leaders, no perfect lives": Five common qualities of Biblical leaders / November 2025
• Clint's Nehemiah Bible study, developed during a prior deployment and used at WSS

If you would like to share your own story, complete the form on OCF's "Be a Guest" webpage. Alternatively, if you have an idea for a guest or topic we should consider for a future episode of the show, send an email to [email protected].

Ministry News

Enjoy an impactful Conference Center visit: If you're looking for an opportunity to hit the pause button and reconnect with loved ones, consider a summer program at White Sulphur Springs (Manns Choice, Pa.) or Spring Canyon (Buena Vista, Colo.).

Check out the OCF Sisterhood: Visit our newest webpage to stay in the know, join the conversation, or help shape women's ministry efforts.

Meet the Council Class of 2029: Learn more about and pray for our newly elected Council members.