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Off-Grid Solar Never Needed Incentives: Kenny Grigar
Aaron Nichols sits down with off-grid specialist Kenny Grigar, who started living in an off-grid home powered by solar in the early ’90s. This was long before incentives or slick door-to-door sales tactics.
Kenny tells his stories from the DIY roots of modern solar and explains how even without tax credits, rising power rates make solar energy systems a great investment for homeowners.
Expect to Learn:
* What off-grid life and solar energy looked like in the 90s
* Why ranchers and remote sites were early adopters (solar well pumps > hauling generators).
* How the solar industry can move past “solar bro” sales tactics and build long-term trust.
Quotes from the Episode:
“We never truly needed incentives—self-reliance was the original incentive.” – Kenny Grigar “In 80 years we won’t call it ‘renewables.’ It’ll just be energy—and maybe no bills.” – Kenny Grigar
You can listen to this episode here, or on:
* YouTube
* Apple Podcasts
* Spotify
Transcript:
Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania—and today’s episode is very special because I’m interviewing an off-grid solar specialist while I am actually off-grid. I’ve got a panel charging a battery bank that feeds a Starlink, and I can charge my computers off it—perfect setup for today’s conversation. Today’s guest is someone I’ve followed on LinkedIn for a while and really enjoyed, but haven’t met until now. It’s Kenny Grigar, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show, Kenny.
Kenny Grigar: Thanks—thanks for having me.
Aaron Nichols: With you being an off-grid specialist who’s lived off-grid, you’ve got a unique perspective on solar incentives under the Inflation Reduction Act. The purpose of this series is to talk to leaders about what clean-energy companies can do now that we’re moving into a world without the incentives we’ve had for so long.
Kenny Grigar: Right. When I first started out there were obviously no incentives. I first started living off-grid and was a solar enthusiast around 1993. We did a few solar concerts; hardly anyone knew how to install the equipment. I grew up on a farm, wiring 12-volt batteries in series and parallel for irrigation and lighting. My grandmother didn’t have electricity until I was in grade school.
Aaron Nichols: That was the year I was born, by the way. What was price-per-watt like back then?
Kenny Grigar: Oh my gosh—upwards of $5 to maybe even $8/W. My first panel was about 32 W for roughly $350. We thought we were cool. My first 2 kW system felt huge. We were using 60 W modules, then 120 W (two 60s in one frame). Systems were extremely expensive. There was a lot more DC-direct because inverters were limited. I joined a professional outfit—Jade Mountain—around 1997 and saw the first digitally controlled PWM charge controllers arrive. We were still selling individual cells you’d frame into DIY modules. We made charge controllers and power systems. Everything was a mash-up—dozens of components from a dozen companies—like building a Jeep out of Ford/Chevy/Yugo parts. Analog meters were the norm; digital readouts and rudimentary data acquisition were just coming in. Trace Engineering was big, then Pulse, and a few module makers. Uni-Solar thin film helped nudge prices down to maybe $5–$6/W.
Aaron Nichols: And when did incentives start coming into play?
Kenny Grigar: The first I remember of a federal tax credit was the Bush administration—years after I’d cut my teeth and started my own install company. Even grid-tie systems we did then were often battery-based—OutBack, Trace, etc. Early grid-tie was still battery-first. Then string inverters arrived—Sunny Boys and the like—and we were like, “Great inverters, but where are the batteries?” It was off-grid first.
Kenny Grigar: There’s a LinkedIn group called Solar Pioneers—lots of early folks in Northern California, Colorado, New Mexico. You’d buy land with no prospect of utilities, so you combined a little PV for electricity with non-electric tech: hand well pumps (Lehman’s), Aermotor windmills, etc. Because solar was so expensive, systems grew over years—Christmas presents were a new module or inverter—arrays were a mix of 60 W, 120 W, whatever you’d pieced together.
Aaron Nichols: That context matters for this series: leaders like Kenny started when there were no incentives.
Kenny Grigar: Absolutely. The “incentive” was an American self-reliance mindset. Who loves hugging their utility? Even if payback looked like “forever,” nobody gets a “return” on utility payments. It also transcended politics then. Ranchers on huge spreads were early adopters—swapping generators and long drives for solar well pumps to automate watering rotations. There was never going to be ROI on gasoline + maintenance out there; PV cut the hassle.
Aaron Nichols: And generators need maintenance—if you neglect them you don’t have power when you need it. With the sun feeding a battery system, you’ve got resilience. I’m optimistic that, in a world without incentives, that American streak of defiance kicks in. Also: utility power keeps getting pricier for the same product that never innovates.
Kenny Grigar: Exactly—especially in places like Texas where some folks pay more for electricity than their mortgage.
Aaron Nichols: Oh wow—really?
Kenny Grigar: Yeah. If you’re in the last 15 years of a 30-year mortgage paying, say, $600–$800/month for electricity, that can eclipse the mortgage. Part of it is the “everything’s bigger in Texas” mentality—getting handed a 10-ton AC as the default. Few start with efficiency. There’s also a mindset barrier—“why a mini-split?”—and you end up with 13-SEER hogs. Back in the day, doing site evals for grid-tie (even with local rebates), I’d refuse quotes unless the homeowner made efficiency changes. People would buy a “more efficient” fridge, then keep the old one on the porch cooling half a six-pack. In the ’90s/early 2000s, solar folks were often the only ones pushing efficiency. Square footage wasn’t destiny—I’ve seen 2,000-sq-ft homes with 10 kids at ~2.3 kWh/day, and apartments using 60 kWh/day. With $8–$10/W modules we’d say: every dollar on efficiency saves you ~$8 on the PV system. The ratio’s different now, but the principle stands: efficiency is king.
Aaron Nichols: For companies moving forward without incentives, is the play to focus on efficiency and rising bills rather than over-moduling?
Kenny Grigar: Absolutely. Don’t over-module just to hit a quote or make a PPA pencil—make the load efficient. Especially off-grid, you can’t design from past bills if there aren’t bills. You design per-circuit and per-behavior. Be an electrical investigator—find the hidden energy thieves. Know your customer. And look, I wasn’t advocating losing fair incentives—oil has plenty. But I am a little excited to see solar stand on its own again. We never truly needed incentives; CEC-style rebates and certain muni programs proved PV is among the cheapest ways to generate energy. Doing it on our own again also helps scrub out the “solar bro” era. I’ve seen the tactics—fur-coat booths cheering a fake “eviction notice” door hanger that mimics a utility warning. That stuff made me sick.
Aaron Nichols: I get those mailers—same vibe as fake mortgage-warranty notices. I could talk off-grid and dishonest pitches all day, but let’s bring it home. My last question comes from my grandma’s 80th: she was born into a world where “renewables” basically didn’t exist. In her lifetime we got PV (1954) and Carter’s 1979 White House thermal install—and prices fell off a cliff. If we extrapolate 80 years forward, what’s your wild prediction? No one can hold us to it—we’ll both be gone.
Kenny Grigar: In 80 years we won’t even say “renewable energy.” It’ll just be energy—and maybe no utilities as we know them. Systems will be so efficient and affordable that point-of-source, distributed energy is the default—designed into homes and warehouses. A 500-W “module” might be the size of a smartphone. The whole house shifts away from a 240-V breaker panel; appliances are like laptops—moveable, DC-friendly, smart. Years ago I said by 2025 solar should be as easy as Geek Squad installing a home theater—we’re behind on that, but that’s the trajectory. If it eliminates “cool solar guys” like me doing installs, so be it. It’ll just be energy—and maybe no bills.
Aaron Nichols: Thank you so much for coming on, Kenny. Where can people find you?
Kenny Grigar: solarescue.com and LinkedIn. And hopefully I’ll have good news soon—I’m planning to join a great team (can’t say more yet).
Aaron Nichols: Thanks for making the time, Kenny. That’s This Week in Solar—see you next week.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit exactsolar.substack.com
View all episodes
By Exact SolarAaron Nichols sits down with off-grid specialist Kenny Grigar, who started living in an off-grid home powered by solar in the early ’90s. This was long before incentives or slick door-to-door sales tactics.
Kenny tells his stories from the DIY roots of modern solar and explains how even without tax credits, rising power rates make solar energy systems a great investment for homeowners.
Expect to Learn:
* What off-grid life and solar energy looked like in the 90s
* Why ranchers and remote sites were early adopters (solar well pumps > hauling generators).
* How the solar industry can move past “solar bro” sales tactics and build long-term trust.
Quotes from the Episode:
“We never truly needed incentives—self-reliance was the original incentive.” – Kenny Grigar “In 80 years we won’t call it ‘renewables.’ It’ll just be energy—and maybe no bills.” – Kenny Grigar
You can listen to this episode here, or on:
* YouTube
* Apple Podcasts
* Spotify
Transcript:
Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania—and today’s episode is very special because I’m interviewing an off-grid solar specialist while I am actually off-grid. I’ve got a panel charging a battery bank that feeds a Starlink, and I can charge my computers off it—perfect setup for today’s conversation. Today’s guest is someone I’ve followed on LinkedIn for a while and really enjoyed, but haven’t met until now. It’s Kenny Grigar, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show, Kenny.
Kenny Grigar: Thanks—thanks for having me.
Aaron Nichols: With you being an off-grid specialist who’s lived off-grid, you’ve got a unique perspective on solar incentives under the Inflation Reduction Act. The purpose of this series is to talk to leaders about what clean-energy companies can do now that we’re moving into a world without the incentives we’ve had for so long.
Kenny Grigar: Right. When I first started out there were obviously no incentives. I first started living off-grid and was a solar enthusiast around 1993. We did a few solar concerts; hardly anyone knew how to install the equipment. I grew up on a farm, wiring 12-volt batteries in series and parallel for irrigation and lighting. My grandmother didn’t have electricity until I was in grade school.
Aaron Nichols: That was the year I was born, by the way. What was price-per-watt like back then?
Kenny Grigar: Oh my gosh—upwards of $5 to maybe even $8/W. My first panel was about 32 W for roughly $350. We thought we were cool. My first 2 kW system felt huge. We were using 60 W modules, then 120 W (two 60s in one frame). Systems were extremely expensive. There was a lot more DC-direct because inverters were limited. I joined a professional outfit—Jade Mountain—around 1997 and saw the first digitally controlled PWM charge controllers arrive. We were still selling individual cells you’d frame into DIY modules. We made charge controllers and power systems. Everything was a mash-up—dozens of components from a dozen companies—like building a Jeep out of Ford/Chevy/Yugo parts. Analog meters were the norm; digital readouts and rudimentary data acquisition were just coming in. Trace Engineering was big, then Pulse, and a few module makers. Uni-Solar thin film helped nudge prices down to maybe $5–$6/W.
Aaron Nichols: And when did incentives start coming into play?
Kenny Grigar: The first I remember of a federal tax credit was the Bush administration—years after I’d cut my teeth and started my own install company. Even grid-tie systems we did then were often battery-based—OutBack, Trace, etc. Early grid-tie was still battery-first. Then string inverters arrived—Sunny Boys and the like—and we were like, “Great inverters, but where are the batteries?” It was off-grid first.
Kenny Grigar: There’s a LinkedIn group called Solar Pioneers—lots of early folks in Northern California, Colorado, New Mexico. You’d buy land with no prospect of utilities, so you combined a little PV for electricity with non-electric tech: hand well pumps (Lehman’s), Aermotor windmills, etc. Because solar was so expensive, systems grew over years—Christmas presents were a new module or inverter—arrays were a mix of 60 W, 120 W, whatever you’d pieced together.
Aaron Nichols: That context matters for this series: leaders like Kenny started when there were no incentives.
Kenny Grigar: Absolutely. The “incentive” was an American self-reliance mindset. Who loves hugging their utility? Even if payback looked like “forever,” nobody gets a “return” on utility payments. It also transcended politics then. Ranchers on huge spreads were early adopters—swapping generators and long drives for solar well pumps to automate watering rotations. There was never going to be ROI on gasoline + maintenance out there; PV cut the hassle.
Aaron Nichols: And generators need maintenance—if you neglect them you don’t have power when you need it. With the sun feeding a battery system, you’ve got resilience. I’m optimistic that, in a world without incentives, that American streak of defiance kicks in. Also: utility power keeps getting pricier for the same product that never innovates.
Kenny Grigar: Exactly—especially in places like Texas where some folks pay more for electricity than their mortgage.
Aaron Nichols: Oh wow—really?
Kenny Grigar: Yeah. If you’re in the last 15 years of a 30-year mortgage paying, say, $600–$800/month for electricity, that can eclipse the mortgage. Part of it is the “everything’s bigger in Texas” mentality—getting handed a 10-ton AC as the default. Few start with efficiency. There’s also a mindset barrier—“why a mini-split?”—and you end up with 13-SEER hogs. Back in the day, doing site evals for grid-tie (even with local rebates), I’d refuse quotes unless the homeowner made efficiency changes. People would buy a “more efficient” fridge, then keep the old one on the porch cooling half a six-pack. In the ’90s/early 2000s, solar folks were often the only ones pushing efficiency. Square footage wasn’t destiny—I’ve seen 2,000-sq-ft homes with 10 kids at ~2.3 kWh/day, and apartments using 60 kWh/day. With $8–$10/W modules we’d say: every dollar on efficiency saves you ~$8 on the PV system. The ratio’s different now, but the principle stands: efficiency is king.
Aaron Nichols: For companies moving forward without incentives, is the play to focus on efficiency and rising bills rather than over-moduling?
Kenny Grigar: Absolutely. Don’t over-module just to hit a quote or make a PPA pencil—make the load efficient. Especially off-grid, you can’t design from past bills if there aren’t bills. You design per-circuit and per-behavior. Be an electrical investigator—find the hidden energy thieves. Know your customer. And look, I wasn’t advocating losing fair incentives—oil has plenty. But I am a little excited to see solar stand on its own again. We never truly needed incentives; CEC-style rebates and certain muni programs proved PV is among the cheapest ways to generate energy. Doing it on our own again also helps scrub out the “solar bro” era. I’ve seen the tactics—fur-coat booths cheering a fake “eviction notice” door hanger that mimics a utility warning. That stuff made me sick.
Aaron Nichols: I get those mailers—same vibe as fake mortgage-warranty notices. I could talk off-grid and dishonest pitches all day, but let’s bring it home. My last question comes from my grandma’s 80th: she was born into a world where “renewables” basically didn’t exist. In her lifetime we got PV (1954) and Carter’s 1979 White House thermal install—and prices fell off a cliff. If we extrapolate 80 years forward, what’s your wild prediction? No one can hold us to it—we’ll both be gone.
Kenny Grigar: In 80 years we won’t even say “renewable energy.” It’ll just be energy—and maybe no utilities as we know them. Systems will be so efficient and affordable that point-of-source, distributed energy is the default—designed into homes and warehouses. A 500-W “module” might be the size of a smartphone. The whole house shifts away from a 240-V breaker panel; appliances are like laptops—moveable, DC-friendly, smart. Years ago I said by 2025 solar should be as easy as Geek Squad installing a home theater—we’re behind on that, but that’s the trajectory. If it eliminates “cool solar guys” like me doing installs, so be it. It’ll just be energy—and maybe no bills.
Aaron Nichols: Thank you so much for coming on, Kenny. Where can people find you?
Kenny Grigar: solarescue.com and LinkedIn. And hopefully I’ll have good news soon—I’m planning to join a great team (can’t say more yet).
Aaron Nichols: Thanks for making the time, Kenny. That’s This Week in Solar—see you next week.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit exactsolar.substack.com