In this episode, Aaron talks with Sonny Sacks, a Database Reactivation Specialist who works with home service companies.
Sonny explains how solar companies can stop burning cash on new leads by unlocking the hidden value sitting in their (often neglected) CRMs.
You can connect with Sonny on LinkedIn here.
Listen to this episode here, or on:
* YouTube
* Apple Podcasts
* Spotify
Expect to learn:
* What “database reactivation” actually means and looks like day-to-day.
* The critical lessons solar installers should steal from the HVAC industry.
* How to build recurring revenue through Operations & Maintenance (O&M) memberships and move beyond the “just call me if it breaks” mindset.
Quotes from the episode:
“Reactivating that database is... reaching back out to those people so that number one, you can stay top of mind... and you can decrease your cost of acquisition because there’s no cold source ads going on.”
- Sonny Sacks
Transcript:
Aaron Nichols: Sonny, on LinkedIn, you list your job title as database, database reactivation specialist. What does that mean and what does that look like day-to-day?
Sonny Sacks: Great question. So, database, let’s just start there. Most companies, established companies, they have a CRM, right, customer relations manager, which is, you know, how they track their incoming leads, their prospects, how they follow up, you know, jobs that are in the pipeline and where they’re at in the pipeline, and so on and so forth. So, reactivation is kind of like how it sounds, right? Reactivating that database. A lot of, and I consider myself a specialist because this is what I do, but a lot of companies have thousands and thousands and thousands of leads that have gone cold, people that have expressed interest and they never heard from again, you know, appointments that were made or estimates that were given that were never followed up with or sold and a lot of, you know, past customers who, you know, company didn’t hear from and hasn’t heard from in a year to three.
So with The database reactivation is reaching back out to those people and kind of nurturing that list of people so that number one, you can stay top of mind number two. You can generate business number three. You can expand the lifetime customer value in number three. You can decrease your cost of acquisition because there’s no cold source ads going on. We’re just reactivating what you already have. And I mean, it’s an incredibly cost effective way to increase revenue quickly without having to replace anything. Right. That’s my answer.
Aaron Nichols: Okay. And so when we talked before the show, you said, I’ve been working in the HVAC industry and I’ve seen how solar shops could seriously take a note or two from HVAC. Now, before we jump into that. I want to talk about your recent shift that you told me about before we started recording, where you said that you had almost like an awakening, where you realized that you wanted to work in clean energy.
Sonny Sacks: Yeah. Okay. I’m going to try to not get too hyped. Okay. I’m excited. So, the question, let me just make sure, the question is you want to hear more about my recent awakening.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Absolutely.
Sonny Sacks: So yeah, like you said, you know, I’ve the most of my business has been with the HVAC industry plumbing, other contractors, things like that. But mostly HVAC and plumbing. And I was reflecting on it was December last month. And I know this isn’t going to publish until like April or whatever. But it was in December 2025. And you know, reflecting on my year and I’m thinking about, you know, where I want my life to go and I had this moment of like I could die two day and my life will be over. The end of the chapter will be gone and the book will be a wrap. And you know, I thought about what I’ve been doing as far as my personal life, which has been completely separate from how I make money and I really try to serve God and man in my personal life. But when it comes to my business, I, you know, I help HVAC companies and that helps people be comfortable and that’s great and I help plumbing companies and that helps people with, you know, that, that kind of stuff.
And that’s great. But it’s, it isn’t. It just, it just, there was, there was a feeling that I had that felt like I could do more that like I didn’t want to be on my deathbed thinking about if there was a more impactful way I could have conducted my business and applied my skills. And I started really going on, you know, a rabbit hole about that and really starting to think like, what are the issues facing humanity right now? What’s happening in, you know, 2025, 2026 for people and not just where I live in my community, but all over the world. And I started thinking about, of course, you know, AI, AI, this AI that and data centers this and data centers that. And I, I, I started going really deep into thinking about the, um, clean energy because going from AI and data centers, what powers those things? What’s the fundamental layer that powers these world changing shifts that are literally happening before my eyes that like by the time, like I’m my grandchildren are going to ask me what it was like to live in 2025 and beyond, you know?
And that’s when I got down to the fundamental layer of electricity of the kilowatt. And I started to really think about, well, how’s that look in these days? And I started going on a really, really deep, you know, rabbit hole on how it’s not sustainable the way we do it. the way we dig things up and set them on fire and how it’s destroying our planet means that by the time my grandchildren or adults, they’re going to inherit a planet that I mean since I was in middle school, I’m 33 years old and since I was in middle school maybe even before that, I remember climate change being a topic. I remember like when Al Gore made that one documentary and I remember thinking about these things and you know them talking about it in school but it was It was always just like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, I want to make money. That doesn’t matter. I don’t want to make money. Right. And it’s over time. It’s become, it’s always been a topic in my life. Like whenever I look at the news or politics or whatever, it’s always been a topic. And like finally, I was, I was, I think I heard Elon Musk say it on X. He said something like there is no, like, more impactful thing happening for our humanity on the planet, other than space colonization and AI, the thing that’s going to power these two, these two amazing things is clean energy.
We have to figure out a way to harness the power of the sun, specifically, and use it in a sustainable way that can basically allow humanity to power forward in a sustainable way without, you know, having a net loss going down, you know. Yeah. So, um, that’s, so I once I realized this and like it dawned on me, it was just like, I, I thought like, okay, how do I help? How do I contribute? How do I help? And I was going to go volunteer to like, uh, for, well, I was going to like start working for grid and like do those like you know volunteer work around the world setting up solar panels and stuff. And I was like well maybe I should just go get a job at a solar company. And I’m like I’ll just sell solar and start door knocking. And now I like started like really thinking like how do I build something? Can I build something and let’s just like wait a minute. This is my skill set. I know how to do this, you know. I’m already doing things. Exactly. And it’s just like I can help do I can transfer this over here. And that’s that’s I think that answers your question. That’s my, that’s a long rant.
Aaron Nichols: Sorry, it’s amazing. And it’s much needed within the solar industry. And just a quick sidebar before we keep going, there’s a company called Twin Day Solar. You should look up. T-W-E-N-D-E. It’s a non-profit run by a woman named Robin Swan Heiser. I’m going to say her name wrong and she’s going to make fun of me. But they handle Solar around the world, they really just do one project at a time. They’re a very small nonprofit, but they build solar projects in places where electrification is the primary need. The next one they’re going to build is an Ecuador in like an off-grid school or something. So incredible use of remote, volunteering time, if you ever want someone like that.
Sonny Sacks: Twin day. Yes. Twin day solar.
Aaron Nichols: Now going back to HVAC, and HVAC being a more established industry, you said that solar could take a note or two from HVAC. So is HVAC much better generally at using their old databases?
Sonny Sacks: Okay, that’s a great question. So the thing about the HVAC industry or the plumbing industry or any of these home service industries is the variance, right? And when I say variance, I’m talking about the variance in the sophistication of business practices for example.
Aaron Nichols: Totally. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s Jim with a truck or it’s the company that covers 30 states.
Sonny Sacks: Exactly. It’s Jim with a truck, no CRM, and when I, you know, reactivate his database and send him a lead, he answers the phone, like, yeah, it’s Jim. It’s like, oh my gosh. But yeah, so, but generally speaking, like if we can, you know, when Jimmy decides that he wants to, you know, kind of step his game up a little bit, right? The first thing he’s got to do is get a CRM. Like I’m, I’m as a database reactivation specialist. I’m shocked at how many companies don’t have a CRM. like baffled, like you’re not even, there’s nothing for me to reactivate.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, without a database.
Sonny Sacks: Yeah, I mean, their CRM is like a couple of cell sheets. It’s just like, oh my god, you know? So the first thing is they gotta have a CRM and the people, the companies that have the CRM and that are past that threshold of like, yep, we’ve been working on word of mouth and referrals and we’re doing fine. It’s like, okay. So those people go forth and multiply, love it. You know what I mean? But for the people who, the companies who like understand that, okay, this is a very seasonal type thing. This is a kind of feast or famine type thing. Like I need to, I have employees now. I need a level of consistency in my business and growth and sustainable growth, and those people understand the needs who market, they have a website, they invest in their marketing, they have a marketing budget, and what I have seen in the HVAC industry, specifically the HVAC industry, because recently a few years back, private equity firms came in to the HVAC industry, and they really changed the game.
They they brought a level of sophistication into that industry that changed everything for everybody and What happened was is people started to see like here are these companies with these giant budgets that are just Dominating Google ads dominating Facebook ads dominating paper click and SEO, right and so you know new lead acquisition and became a lot more expensive and a lot more difficult, but still necessary. And studies have shown over time that what was it? The largest companies, 70%, I believe it was, 70% of their revenue came from recurring customers, people who are already in their database, people who, you know, bought a system, joined a membership, bought this repair, bought this seasonal thing, and they basically, it has become and is becoming standardized to, you know, nurture and farm and reactivate a database. As a result of that, different software has popped up that, you know, automates that, but the thing is, is it takes work to use those software tools, right?
And you know, some shops are doing, you know, who are over the $10, $15 million mark, they, you know, can afford to hire an in-house marketing team where they manage and use these tools that help them do their job, then you have the Jimmy’s of the world and then you have everybody in the middle where it’s like, yeah, I guess I’ll spend the money on the software tool but now I got to hire somebody to do it and I don’t have time and I got to focus on this and it’s to answer your question, that’s a long-winded random so sorry, I just, I have a tendency to, it’s almost like, especially talking on like a video like I have to formulate my thoughts in how in a context that like makes sense to me. I wish it could be more succinct.
Aaron Nichols: Well, I am able to edit so I can edit out just to make a great one. But to answer your question, yes. Generally speaking, the HVAC industry understands the need to cultivate and and continually reach out to their database and they it’s becoming more of a standardize practice, it’s becoming more of a, it’s becoming more of a, I don’t want to say need. I want to say more of a, more of a standard, I guess is the word. Yeah, more of a standard, yeah. So there were, there were three things that you mentioned when you sent me your, your summary before I interviewed you and I used them to read the questions. They were database reactivation, rehashing unfold appointments and O&M memberships for recurring revenue.
Sonny Sacks: Yes.
Aaron Nichols: So let’s let’s just start with database reactivation like if someone has no idea where to start there What would you come in and do for them?
Sonny Sacks: So number one database reactivation is about putting the correct offer in front of the correct person right preferably at the correct time For example, I’ll use HVAC as an example because that’s the first time I come to my head. Let’s say in August, winter is coming, or not me, let’s not use that, let’s use March. Summer is coming, right? You have a database of 5,000, 10,000 people, most of which haven’t heard from you in over a year or two, or maybe they’ve just filled out a lead form, gave you their phone number and you never talked to them again, whatever. But what I would do is I would segment who you want to reach out. I would actually based on where a company is at, if, hey, we need more installs this month or, hey, we want to boost our memberships this month or, hey, we overstocked on capacitors. So whatever the case may be, it’s a matter of figuring out where a company wants, and And I apply this to solar thinking like, okay, battery storage, there’s a whole lot of homes out there that got solar panels and no battery storage. Those are the people who are furthest down the field. You’re not starting at the 20 yard line on the opposite side of the field. You’re already at least on the 50 yard line. So I’m going to take those people, I’m going to target those people.
And I have different automations that when I say database rectification, I’m not talking about like one massive text blast to everybody. And whoever bites bites, that’s what I’m talking about. I have found that once I know what offer a company wants to make, given their situation. I’m able to segment the best target customers for that situation. And then I’m able to craft a certain mechanism that automates the outreach via text messaging. I have found that text messaging is by far the best way to reach out your database vastly better than email.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And because everybody’s going to see it. That open rate is going to be like 99%.
Sonny Sacks: Right. Now, the thing about texting is it has to be done in a very invitational way. Like, hey, Aaron, I’m having a barbecue. We’re gonna have a live bank come out. My mom’s gonna be cooking brisket. It’s awesome, and it’s gonna be taken place on Sunday after church, come by. Let me know if you’re interested. Right. It’s very invitational, no pressure, no urgency, no, hey yeah, buy this, we’re gonna do this. And if you act now, then we’re gonna add this, and then, you know what I mean, call us now, and then we’re gonna, you know what I mean, like it’s not, it’s not that. It’s the opposite of that. It’s very invetational, I almost feel like, I mean, you know, everybody knows that marketers have a bad name. There’s a prejudice against marketers, you know?
Aaron Nichols: I’ve also found that people ascribe far more competence to marketers than I think is real. I’ll look into that in one second. I’ll look into the marketing as if we’re like actually pulling strings like some sort of illuminati. and there’s really just a bunch of people trying to figure out what works just like everything else.
Sonny Sacks: Yes, I’ll get to that in a second. You know, that’s a toll. I could talk about that for a cool moment. But hang on, let me finish that.
Aaron Nichols: We only have half an hour, so let’s stay on database.
Sonny Sacks: Right, right, right. So with the database reactivation, if you keep it really invitational and you obviously schedule out the right times when it sends, You know, it’s best to send it on a Tuesday rather than on Monday and you know if you send out the right times Where it’s better to start to sending between like 10 and two versus like six a.m. or nine p.m. You know and and if and if you send the invitations out in a way that strikes at the feeling like we were talking about earlier where it’s like it’s it’s less about like save money and it’s more about like Home comfort, or peace of mind, or whatever the case may be, depending on whatever promotion we’re doing, grid independence, whatever. And then it’s all about the follow up, where it’s like, okay, if I send a text message and I don’t hear something, the next day, they’re going to get another text message. And if they don’t hear anything, we’re going to send another text message. And it’s about having that continuous chain, that continuous, you know, they say fortune is in the follow-up, it’s about having the right flow to where like, yeah, and the way you want to structure it is, you know, here’s what we’re doing, this really cool thing, reply yes if you’re interested. And then, they reply yes, or they call indirectly. And then, it’s, there you go.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I think a good example of that a campaign we’ve run is just focusing on the storage customers, like you said, the people who already have solar who might want storage, and then asking them after power outages if they’re interested in storage. When there’s a big power outage in our service area, we message people who live there. And so many people are like, I hadn’t thought about it until now, but I would like that.
Sonny Sacks: Exactly. And not only that, the statistics have shown with database reactivation. And these are people who already know who you are. They’ve heard of your company in one way or the other. And they know that there’s something to buy. And the people who are responding are actively expressing interest. These people are three times more studies have shown. Three times more likely to buy and when they buy, spend 40% more money than when compared to a cold, you know, ad source type lead, just specifically if they’ve already heard of you.
Aaron Nichols: If they’re already in your CRM but haven’t bought yet, is that that’s what you’re talking about?
Sonny Sacks: Yeah, if they already are, if they’re already, if they’ve already seen an ad from you, fill it on Facebook or Google or whatever and or senior website or whatever and they’ve, you know, given you their phone number and their name and then you never heard from them again. that person is gonna respond a lot better than the guy who’s never heard of you before and is listening to your radio ad or your seeing your TV ad or seeing your ad on Facebook and scrolling past it, you know?
Aaron Nichols: Okay. Yeah. So the other one I’d like to talk about is O&M memberships. And I think there’s something that has been overlooked in the solar industry for a long time. The attitude has just been like, just call me and I’ll fix it. And obviously we’re starting to hit this critical mass. I mean, like my, we’re one of the few companies in our service area that will take on orphan systems. And one of my friends has just started, like, just doing service, and she’s crushing it right now. Because there’s such a need. Because that attitude of just calling me and all fix it, but not really having a plan, actually ended up driving a lot of companies out of business. And so how do you advise that people build-in service plans like from the beginning. That’s a great question. From the beginning, if we just add on, is that also something that HVACs used to doing?
Sonny Sacks: So yeah. So going back to the HVAC industry, what happened was a private equity comes in, the cost of acquisition explodes because all the bidding wars happened on the ad platforms. And what happened is it’s competitive. It’s a very competitive industry as is kind of every industry now. But people started to see how important it was to keep, you know, client acquisition is expensive. We own that. It’s hard and it’s expensive. And there’s that rule how it’s like, I don’t know, it’s like 100 times or 10 times cheaper to keep a customer than it is to get a new one or something like that. I forget. But my point is that, yeah, in the HVAC industry, I get a lot of my partners that I work with when I first start talking to them, I get excited because I have this install promotion, right? I have this install promotion that got one of my partners out here, half a million in three months, like, we got to do this install promotion.
And at the interesting thing is a lot of people want to focus on small service jobs, because it’s number one, it’s a lot easier to say, yes, to a small service job for, you know, 100, 200 bucks, then it is like a $15,000 install or, or, you know, in the solar unit, 20, 30, $40,000. And what I’ve seen happen is, is once people get on site with a customer and they can, for just a service job, they are able to do two things. Number one, enroll that person in a membership plan or a maintenance plan because it’s, you know, the benefits of being on our maintenance plan, you get this, you get two annual checks for free, you get priority service, you get discounts on parts and labor, things like that, you get the perks of being a member, and the second thing is, is you’re now top of mind, you’re now there, go to air conditioning person, you’re not just Jim in a truck, you know who maybe has a vehicle wrap you’re like when you when you get a text message from you know a company who you’re a member of it’s like oh this is my friend Aaron over there at you know exact solar let me know that they got this cool promotion going on rather than like who is this again you know I’m saying yeah it’s a lot more about go figure relationships chips.
Aaron Nichols: One of my favorite overused words that corporate people love to say at each other and then walk away.
Sonny Sacks: Yes, it’s all about just maintaining and developing that relationship.
Aaron Nichols: I came from the world of education, or we heard that word constantly. Okay. Sunny, I have learned so much, and I look forward to talking to you in the future, but we are unfortunately coming short on time.
Sonny Sacks: That’s crazy.
Aaron Nichols: Now, everyone who comes on, I finished with the last question. And it has to do with the fact that I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party last year and realized as I was sitting there that 80 years means she was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist. She was born in 1945, which meant it was only, it was like 12 years before that the Rural Electrification Act had happened and actually brought electricity to almost everywhere in America. And, like, everything that we’ve seen from windmills generating electricity to solar, you know, just being invented. PV was invented in 1954, and then the price just falling and falling and falling until it’s the cheapest source of electricity now. All of that happened within her lifetime. And so, if you were just to make a wild guess, what do you think clean energy looks like like 80 years from now.
Sonny Sacks: Correct me if I’m wrong, but net zero emissions means that like we are now a clean energy planet. Is that correct?
Aaron Nichols: Right. Like we don’t need to dig anything up and burn it anymore.
Sonny Sacks: Correct. I think we’ll be there in 80 years.
Aaron Nichols: Nice. Okay. I like that.
Sonny Sacks: Yeah. Well, maybe not absolutely, but I think so. Like if we can get, I feel like other countries government are vastly more progressive than ours and allow and like understand the importance of what we’re actually doing. If we can get our government to be on that same page, I think it’ll, especially with like America’s influence on the rest of the planet, I think that will just once that happens and I do believe it will happen, it’ll exponentially take off.
Aaron Nichols: And some of it, I mean, as someone who’s traveled in so much of what you would call, like quote unquote, the developing world. It’s some of it’s not even progressiveism. It’s just not even like being at the point of grid development that the U.S. is at yet and they might as well just put in something cheaper now. So there’s a lot of optimism there as well.
Sonny Sacks: I was thinking about that too. Like we just had that major power outage in San Francisco. Yeah. It’s like, is anybody like, Like, it doesn’t, it’s not going to work if we keep going the way we’re going. Like it literally won’t work. It’s, we’re seeing that now. And with the bots that are coming out, the robots that are coming out, it’s like, what are we doing? Like, they’re, it almost seems like obvious. this.
Aaron Nichols: Well, Sunny, where can you be found online if you do want to be found? Where can people go?
Sonny Sacks: LinkedIn. You know, that people can always go to my LinkedIn. I feel like that’s where a lot of your listeners are going to be is they can find me on LinkedIn, probably commenting on your stuff and or my website movestraightforward.com.
Aaron Nichols: Awesome. Thanks so much, man. And for everyone listening, that’s been this week in solar.
Sonny Sacks: Thank you.
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