For the most part, competitive trail running in the US is perceived to bias heavily toward the West Coast, with many of its marquee races and popular training hubs lying left of the Mississippi. This imbalance has stoked a gentle sense of rivalry in trail runners who call the East Coast home, an underdog mentality that many — including this week’s guest, New York native and athlete for The North Face, Sarah Keyes — have turned into fuel. 

Sarah recently punched her ticket to Innsbruck, Austria to represent the US as part of their Long Distance team at this year’s World Mountain Championships, a spot she earned with a podium finish at the Lake Sonoma 50 in Northern California. We talk about what it’s like living and training in the Adirondacks year-round; East Coast vs. West Coast trail running scenes; the upcoming World Mountain Running Championships in Innsbruck, Austria; the latest hits (and misses) in her kitchen; and much more. 

TOPICS & TIMES:

• Sarah’s Background & the Adirondacks (1:53)
• East Coast vs. West Coast Trail Scenes (14:14)
• Race Directing and Weed Whacking (19:48)
• ITRA (27:05)
• Making the US Long Distance Team (35:07) 
• Joining The North Face (38:25)
• Pastry Making (41:50)
• International Racing (44:11)

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Last time Jason Hardrath was on Off The Couch he teased a future project that involved a trip down to Mexico, a volcano, and a whole lot of running and climbing, but aside from those hints, gave no major clues as to what exactly he had cooked up. Well, during his spring break from teaching earlier this year, Jason, together with his buddy Nathan Longhurst and a lean film crew, set out to complete what is affectionately known as an “infinity loop” on Mexico’s Pico de Orizaba (18,491′), the tallest volcano in North America. Without spoiling anything, Jason’s project predictably turned into quite the sufferfest, so Matt Mitchell sat down with him to hear all about it in anticipation of the upcoming film that documents the attempt.

TOPICS & TIMES:

• Pico de Orizaba & HAPE (2:41)
• History of the “Infinity Loop” Format (40:18)
• Previous Attempts (19:42)
• How Health Issues Almost Derailed the Project (24:06)
• Traveling in Mexico (35:05)
• The Legend of Nathan Longhurst (40:18)

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• Jason Hardrath on FKTs & What Makes Him Tick (Ep.110)
• Jason Hardrath on Deer Collisions, Convoluted Bliss, & Keeping the Dream Alive (Ep.149)
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Speedland recently released their much anticipated third commission, a hyper-performance trail shoe intended for ultra-length distances, which they call the GS:TAM. So, Matt Mitchell sat down with co-founders Dave Dombrow and Kevin Fallon to catch up on all that’s transpired since their first appearance on the show back in February of 2022; how they came to adopt a commission-based model for their company; the ins-and-outs of building an athlete team; what informed the design of the GS:TAM; and a whole lot more.

TOPICS & TIMES:

• What’s New? (2:31)
• SL:PDX Reception (3:50)
• Speedland’s “Commission” Model (6:16)
• Building an Athlete Team (9:50)
• Collaborating with FreeTrail (14:44)
• Corporate Team (16:03)
• GS:TAM Deep-Dive (16:58)
• Availability (25:11)
• Small Brand Surprises (29:12)
• The Future of Speedland (31:15)
• Cameron Hanes Commission & Criticism (34:50)
• Cocodona 250 & Race Sponsorship (37:19)

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• On the Creation of a “Hyper-Performance” Trail Shoe Company: Speedland (Ep.107)
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When Preston Cates popped up on most peoples’ radars with his unexpected 6th place finish at the 2021 Canyons 100k as a 23 year-old, he had a pretty simple motivation driving his young trail running career: to never have to pay for shoes again. Since then, the Boulder, CO native has racked up podium finishes left and right, landed a pro contract to run for Nike (shoes included), and recently punched his ticket to represent the US at the World Mountain Running Championships in Austria later this year. Matt Mitchell sat down with Preston a week after his 3rd place finish at the 2023 Lake Sonoma 50 to chat about his development as an athlete; walking on to a D1 program at the University of Arkansas; training vs. spending time outside; what he grabs at a gas station during a mid-run bonk; and a whole lot more.

TOPICS & TIMES

• Flagstaff by way of Boulder, Gunnison, Arkansas, and Austria (2:17)
• Preston’s wrestling career (4:43)
• How he fell into running (6:56)
• Being an extravert (12:08)
• Moving to Austria in the middle of COVID (15:22)
• Canyons 2021, dance parties, & Camelbaks (20:05)
• How doing different sports can keep you healthy (31:06)
• Nike contract & transitioning to running full-time (36:16)
• Social media (42:23)
• His Nike teammate, Drew Holmen (45:35)
• Making the U.S Team at Lake Sonoma 50 (46:54)
• What else he has lined up this year (55:47)
• Gas station snacks (57:33)

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“So, how did you get into trail running?” is an evergreen question, one that’s likely to field a variety of interesting and original responses regardless of who you ask. Underlying its premise, though, rests one of the sport’s major shortcomings, at least on the elite level. Up until recently, there existed few (if any) direct paths for new runners or athletes crossing over from different disciplines to pursue trail running professionally. 

Recognizing the critical role that development programs play in helping a formerly recreational sport mature, Salomon Athlete Andy Wacker launched The Trail Team earlier this year for expressly that purpose — to provide mentorship, skill development, and media exposure to 6 aspiring pro trail runners in the US. Matt Mitchell spoke to Andy and two Trail Team members, Lauren Gregory and Sam Hendry, about the organization’s backstory, before expanding into a roundtable discussion centered on what Lauren and Sam hope to get out of their time on the team, their professional goals, and more.

TOPICS & TIMES

• What is The Trail Team? (2:59)
• Challenges of transitioning from track / XC to the trails (7:00)
• Mountain running (10:12)
• Lauren’s experience on the US Junior Mountain Running Team (12:46)
• Sam's Nordic ski background (15:44)
• How The Trail Team is structured (17:20)
• Navigating social media as a pro athlete (24:50)
• The importance of keeping the team independent (26:45)
• Specializing in sub ultra distances (32:10)
• How Lauren & Sam ended up on the team (34:06)
• Balancing D1 athletics with trail running (37:27)
• How Andy sees the team growing over the next few years (43:56)
• Long-term goals (51:15)

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As far as superlatives go, there’s little hand wringing about Salomon Athlete Courtney Dauwalter’s standing as one of the best ultrarunners in the world, period. In a sport known for its fickleness, she’s been outright untouchable on the trails for the past two years, riding a 15-race win streak that dates back all the way to 2021 and includes dominant victories on stages such as UTMB (where she set a new female course record in 2021) and Hardrock 100. 

Matt Mitchell recently sat down with Courtney to try and get a sense for how she conceives of running as something that can be taken lightly but practiced seriously. Along the way, they also map the interior of her pain cave, the mental space she occupies when things get dark deep in a race; discuss what does and does not belong on top of nachos; talk bowhunting; and a whole lot more.

TOPICS & TIMES

• Courtney’s background (3:14)
• How Nordic skiing translates to trail running (8:04)
• What guides her training philosophy (12:13)
• Skiing at the University of Denver (13:17)
• 14er first date (16:04)
• Moving to Leadville, CO (22:17)
• Training for Transgrancanaria this winter (23:10)
• Transitioning to running full-time (24:51)
• The pain cave (28:26)
• Running by feel instead of numbers (31:40)
• Nachos & balloon hunting (38:29)
• Doubling up at Western States & Hardrock 100 (42:50)

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Corrine Malcolm is a true trail multi-hyphenate. In addition to running professionally for adidas TERREX and recently launching her own coaching business, Corrine also covers the sport as a writer, editor, race broadcaster, and podcast host. Matt Mitchell recently sat down with her for a grab bag conversation on topics like the relationship between writing and editing; what makes for a good interview; the pros and cons of the way mainstream media outlets cover trail running; the Barkley Marathons; fitness trends; and much more.

TOPICS & TIMES

• Playing catch-up (3:27)
• New role & science writing (4:37)
• “Tough Enough” (7:26)
• Writing vs. editing (13:17)
• What makes for a good interview? (17:43)
• The PTRA & the future of trail running (25:53)
• Barkley Marathons: any press is good press? (38:08)
• The Norwegian Method (44:56)
• Trail running’s next hotspot (46:13)

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• Pro Trail Runners Association 
• “Tough Enough”
• Lazarus Lake NYT Profile 
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Recycling old running shoes is hard, really hard. The concoction of glues, plastics, fabrics, and foams that go into making each pair can each require their own form of disposal, a drawn out sorting process that’s often as inefficient as it is unrealistic. As a result, every year millions of pairs of retired shoes end up in the dump, where many eventually spill out into the sea only to wash ashore on coastlines thousands of miles away. 

As a proud Alaskan, artist, filmmaker, and trail runner, Max Romey knows the repercussions of this problem first hand. Currents make the state’s wild beaches a popular landing spot for ocean debris, leading to pollution Max cleverly captures through watercolor in his new film for Nnormal, “No Lost Shoes.” Matt Mitchell recently sat down with him to talk through some of the major sustainability issues facing the footwear industry; how Nnormal is attempting to upend that process; musings on imperfection in art; parenthood; and a whole lot more.

TOPICS & TIMES

• Watercolor (2:25)
• Leaning into imperfection in art & life (7:27)
• Run-sketch-run (9:22)
• Landscape painting in Alaska (16:58)
• How Max got into adventure filmmaking (20:52)
• The cinematics of filming an ultra (27:04)
• Nnormal and “No Lost Shoes” (30:31)
• Channeling anger into action (40:24)
• Nnormal’s sustainability goals (43:41)
• Thoughts on parenthood & the future (48:45)
• Upcoming projects (52:00)

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• “No Lost Shoes”
• Nnormal Tomir
• Nnormal Kjerag 
• Nnormal’s No Trace Program 
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Ryan Scura and Dylan Ladds have been making movies together since they were both teenagers. What began as a childhood friendship quickly evolved into a creative partnership, culminating in Dooster, the award winning production company they started several years ago. Much of the duo’s work focuses on storytelling in the outdoor community, offering an often candid lens that frames one of their latest projects, a short entitled, “Urban Oasis: A Love Letter to San Francisco.” Ryan has called the film his passion project, one that “...was always put in the back of the line,” so we sat down with him to learn more about how it all finally came together; the role city parks play in making trail running more accessible; the challenges and benefits of creative collaboration; and much more.

TOPICS & TIMES

• Teaching adventure filmmaking (4:14)
• “What is ‘Dooster’?” (11:16)
• How Ryan balances relationships that are both personal & professional (14:28)
• Trail running in San Francisco (18:15)
• Paddy O’Leary, “Coming Home,” and the creative process (23:08)
• “Urban Oasis” (33:33)
• Thoughts on the importance of publics parks & open spaces (46:25)
• Upcoming projects (50:18)

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• "Urban Oasis: A Love Letter to San Francisco"
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The Black Canyon 100k in Arizona is one of the most competitive ultras in the US. As the penultimate Hoka Golden Ticket Race promising automatic entry into this year’s Western States 100 to the top two female and male finishers, its elite field runs deep, meaning finishing times are often blisteringly fast. The men’s course record, set all the way back in 2016, was considered among the stoutest in the sport, that is until Anthony Costales, clad in his college singlet and sun hat, dropped it by a dizzying 19 minutes just a few weeks ago. So, we caught up with Anthony to recap his race; learn how he changed his preparation after finishing 5th at the BC100k last year; chat about how he’s approaching Western States; and a whole lot more.

TOPICS & TIMES

• The ultra learning curve (3:35)
• ‘Which is harder to recover from, a road marathon or a trail race?’ (4:29)
• Taper tantrums! (7:08)
• Thoughts on having a coach vs. being self-coached (7:51)
• Chico State, a pipeline to the trails? (9:35)
• Balancing running with his job as a PE teacher (16:05)
• Transitioning to the trails after college (17:56)
• The ups and downs of increasing distance (22:01)
• Black Canyon 100k race recap (24:17)
• Aid station lemon pound cake (27:30)
• Racing for the love of competition (29:59)
• Preparing for Western States ’23 (36:22)
• What he learned from his debut 100-miler (39:44)
• Race livestreams & drone footage galore (41:27)

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