Session 75

This week’s poster is a practicing PA who has some questions about transitioning from being a PA to starting medical school. These are great questions commonly asked not only by PA’s, but also, by NPs and other nontrads who are in a healthcare-related field and would want to make that switch.

[00:56] OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

"Just stumbled across this forum. Happy to see there are other nontrads getting back on the horse too. I have a few logistical questions I hope you all could help me with.

Background:

I'm currently a practicing PA in Emergency Medicine in the ICU for around four years, looking to make the switch to medical school for a number of reasons, which I'm happy to elaborate on if needed. Three kids with a work from home husband, undergrad major of chemistry with cumulative GPA of 4.0 and a PA grad school GPA also 4.0. All med school prereqs essentially met via PA school prereqs. Haven't taken the MCAT yet but started studying and plan to take in the next one to two years.

Questions:

1. Would it be more financially wise for me to work an extra three to four years, pay off debt, and save up for cost of living with my PA salary before applying to and starting medical school? Or would it be better to start sooner rather than later, let the debt build on holy amounts of interest throughout med school and residency and have med school debt added on top of that knowing that I'll be making more money sooner?

1. Are there any legal issues or conflicts of interest against me picking up shifts as a PA while in medical school or working during med school in general? Do people do this?

1. Do I really need to obtain shadowing hours given my experience practicing medicine everyday?

1. Should I be going back to school just so I can get science LORs (Letters of Recommendation) or would it be sufficient to obtain letters of recommendation from my physician colleagues and PA faculty members?"

These are great questions that a lot of students switching from a career from another healthcare-related field like a Physician Assistant or a nurse have. Let's dig into each of the questions and discuss them.

[03:14] Making a Financial Decision

Is it financially wise to wait a couple years or do you start sooner rather than later? Yes, it would be more financially wise to pay off the debt before actually accruing more debt. This is a personal question that's hard to answer since you really need to sit down with a financial advisor and look at the lost income from giving up your PA work while attending medical school and the income you'll be making as a resident (which is most likely going to be a lot less than working as a PA) and finally, your work as an attending. What would it take to break even and pay off all of that debt and what that would look like. Be able to work out some different scenarios.

Therefore, it seems more financially sound and wise to wait a couple of years. Whether or not it's right for you, it's a personal question that only you can answer. Do you enjoy your job well enough now to give it a couple of years? Are you dead set on going to medical school? If you wait a couple of years, are you going to question that decision? Or should you just jump in now with both feet while you're ready and your husband supports you? These are some things to think about.

[04:40] Legal Issues and Conflicts of Interest

Are there any legal issues or conflicts of interest against picking up shifts as a PA while in medical school or working during med school in general? Yes, people do this.

I recommend that you talk with the medical school as you are accepted and you go through that process. Make sure you're accepted first and then go through the process telling them about you going to medical school and whether you could pick up some shifts. Your ability to pick up shifts is going to be few and far between since medical school is going to be rigorous so being able to work is going to be hard. But it is possible. Your credentials, certifications, and schooling as a PA are fine. If you need to change state, you're going to need to re-license yourself and all of that stuff that goes with moving to a new state. But you should be able to work as a PA. However, be careful with the clear delineations of what you're doing and what scope of practice you're practicing under.

Back in Episode 170 of The Premed Years Podcast, I talked with Brad who turned from PA to medical student and he shared his journey, why he was doing it, as well as practicing as a PA during medical school.

[06:10] Shadowing Hours

Do you need to obtain shadowing hours? Yes. Working as a PA side-by-side with physicians is not "shadowing" a physician. What you see working as a physician's assistant while 99.9% of it is going to be the same, go shadow for 10 or 20 hours. You don't actually need a ton of hours. Just go shadow and see what life is like when you're not working and you're able to just observe and take it all in. You've gotten through your education, PA's work side by side with physicians and even as you're practicing, so you understand it. Still, go get some shadowing hours so you can put it down on your extracurriculars.

[06:57] Letters of Recommendation

Do you need to go to school just to get science LORs? No, you don't. Most medical schools are going to recognize the fact that you're a nontraditional student. If you ask them, they will say they won't need those science LORs so go ahead and use a supervisor and anybody else who will write a great letter of recommendation for you.

[07:26] Final Thoughts

These are great questions a lot of nontrads have not just for PA's but those who are also in the medical field. If you have any questions you want answered here, go to www.OldPreMeds.org and register for a free account.

Links:

PMY 170: PA Turned MD Talks About Why He Made the Shift

Session 74

Our poster this week is questioning whether or not he should apply this cycle with low grades and not a lot of extracurriculars. He is getting very nervous about applying and getting some cold feet.

If you have any questions, sign up for a free account at the OldPreMeds.org and join a collaborative community of like-minded students.

[01:05] OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

"I'm two years out of college with the hopes that I would have applied to medical last cycle (2016) to start in 2017. However, when the time came to send out my primary, I couldn't bring myself to do it. With a very low cumulative GPA of 3.05 and a science GPA of 3.25, a 502 MCAT and very, very few extracurriculars, I decided to wait a year and better my application. A year has come and gone and yet I still feel hesitant to apply. I have been working a job as an Emergency Room technician, volunteering in a hospital, and again preparing to take the MCAT. Even if I get an outstanding score on the MCAT, I feel that it will not be enough to get in. What is your advice? Do I apply anyways? Or do I spend another year in limbo and get a Master's or postbac while gaining more ECs (extracurriculars)?"

[02:10] Your Numbers Are Just a Portion of Your Application

This student is nervous about spending the money to apply to medical school without getting in. It's a legitimate concern, especially given the GPAs for this student which aren't great. Then a 502 MCAT with that MCAT isn't great. However, as I've mentioned in the past, the MCAT and GPA are just a portion of your application. So you can't only go on that.

[03:00] Clinical Experience & Extracurriculars

Episode 171 of The Premed Years Podcast, I had a discussion with a former Dean of Admissions at UC Irvine where she talked about a lack of clinical experience being one of the big reasons to not get into medical school.

This poster obviously recognizes the fact that they lack some extracurriculars and got a job as an emergency room technician. Does this mean you're interacting with patients? If that's what you're doing then great. Taking the MCAT again is also great and you have to do well.

[03:45] Taking Postbac Classes

What I would have liked to see over the past year is you taking postbac classes. It doesn't have to be a formal postbac but doing ore classes to bring up your GPA from a 3.05 and get a cumulative up to 3.2 or 3.3 and your science GPA up higher around to 3.5. This would be fantastic and it would make an admissions committee think twice about that application.

I had a great discussion with the Dean of Admissions at the University of Central Florida where we talked about nontraditional students who have done poorly in the past. He discussed how he looks at applications. He looks at the last 20 hours of science coursework and if you've done well in those last 20 hours, his assumption is you'll be fine in medical school.

The poster did not give any trends on their grades. They may have an amazing upward trend but their cumulative GPA and science GPA are still lower. A lot more information would be helpful here but if you were able to take the MCAT and get a great score, apply. The only worst thing that could happen is them telling you no.

Assume that your GPA is going to hold you back so start taking some classes and do that now. And get ready to apply again. The safer bet that a lot of students don't like to be classified as a reapplicant is usually an unfounded fear. Being a reapplicant doesn't hurt you. But on the safe side, you can continue working as an EMT in the hospital, take classes, and improve your GPA. Take the MCAT, do well on it and apply next year.

[05:55] Final Thoughts

There are so many variables that go into a good medical school application that can get overwhelming. What happened to this student is a common thing where you get shy about pulling a trigger and then you don't apply because you feel you're not good enough. Then a year goes by and you really didn't do much to adjust that so you're still not good enough and this becomes a cascading problem of never being good enough. So take those next steps. Figure out where you need to go and pull the trigger. Take some classes. Do whatever you need to do to improve that MCAT score and hopefully, you will put together successful application. Obviously, personal statement, extracurriculars, secondary essays, and interview prep all go into a great medical school application.

Links:

MedEd Media Network

The Premed Years Podcast Episode 171: Reapplying to Medical School - What You Need to Know to Improve

The Premed Years Podcast Episode 013: Interview with Dean of UCF College of Medicine

UC Irvine School of Medicine

University of Central Florida - College of Medicine

Session 73

The paperback version of The Premed Playbook: Guide to the Medical School Interview is set to be released in June. In celebration of that launch, simply preorder it from Barnes and Noble before June 06, 2017 and get almost $100 worth of giveaways including a brand new, amazing mock interview platform which is only available right now to those who preorder the book. This platform will enable you to practice your interview skills anytime you want and even share video recordings of your interviews with mentors, advisors, friends, and family. Access to this platform is worth $47 a month but you get a free month if you preorder the paperback copy of the book from Barnes and Noble.

You will also get access to my 13 video series of which are courses I've done on the medical school interview (regular price is $47). To know more, text PREORDER to 44222 and you will get instructions on how to buy the book and how to submit your receipt to get access to this free gift.

Today's question is about whether an applicant's medical history would affect their application to medical school, which is a common question we get. Do you need to mention it in your personal statement? If so, how will this affect your application?

[04:00] OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

“I am currently back in school working on completing course prereqs for medical school. I'm just wondering, is a medical history taken into account when applying to medical school especially mental health?

In 2016, undiagnosed OCD led me to develop an eating disorder for which I'm currently in recovering as well as chronic depression. I'm wondering if these life events could affect my medical school application. Aside from my mental health history, I am working towards a strong application (knock on wood). My undergrad GPA is 3.9. My current science and math GPA is 4.0. I'm about to begin volunteering at a hospital and I work 24+ hours a week in an advanced stage dementia nursing home, basically, as a CNA. I serve as a peace corps volunteer and I'm nearly fluent in Spanish.”

Here are my thoughts: [05:00] Medical School Application

Luckily, for this student, their mental health has obviously not affected their grades. Ultimately, what the question comes down to is, what do I have to tell the medical schools?

The plain answer is nothing. There is nothing on the application that asks about your health. What could come up is if you had any significant gaps in education and you have to explain those. And even if you do have those gaps in your education, you don't have to explain those by saying you've had chronic depression, OCD, or an eating disorder. Instead, be very generic and say you've been dealing with some health issues that have gotten under control and since coming back to school, you've been fantastic. And it shows!

[06:34] Medical License Application

When you go for your medical license, you will be asked a question about any health issues that are going to prevent you from taking care of patients. It doesn't sound like this poster has anything that would prevent them from taking care of patients so this is not something to worry about.

However, this comes into play if you have brain tumor and it's affecting your cognition and your ability to think and control impulses. Then you're starting to deal with some questionable issues. If you have a vision problem or severe carpal tunnel, for instance, and you're a surgeon then maybe that's a problem. You're going to have to disclose that on your applications for your medical license as well as your credentials at the hospital.

[07:33] A Red Flag

Whatever you have is none of the medical school's business. I highly recommend that even if this has motivated you to go into medicine, be very careful about talking about those things on your application and in your personal statement. This could pose a big red flag.

Medical schools are looking at thousands of medical schools so why would they take a chance on you when they can just put you aside and look at somebody else, just as qualified as you are, that doesn't have any red flags?

Back in Episode 194 of The Premed Years podcast, I talked to a student who is legally blind from a condition and he applied to a medical school. His personal statement was all about his blindness and how that's motivating to continue. However, he didn't get into medical school and thought maybe he shouldn't have done that. The next time he applied, he didn't mention anything about his blindness. He was able to hide it to a certain extent, like if it was bright out, he was able to see well enough that he didn't need a walking stick. Then he got accepted to medical school and the packages that came after his acceptance asked him about whether he needed accommodations and that's when he said he's legally blind. Currently, he is residency and is doing very well.

[09:46] Final Thoughts

As you are struggling with mental health issues or whatever you're dealing with, guess what? We are all dealing with something.

One of the reasons I left the Air Force and I'm doing the podcasts full time now and I don't practice medicine anymore is I was diagnosed with MS (which was also one of the reasons I got into the Air Force instead of doing Orthopedic Surgery which was what I really loved to do but it could have made my disease worse but it wasn't worth it). Hopefully, this discussion has helped you figure out whether this is something that's going to affect you. Usually, it doesn't. We have our own concerns like how the admissions committee members are going to look at you. But for the most part, your business is not the medical school's. Keep it to yourself and keep taking care of yourself on your journey. Hopefully, you will do very well.

Session 72

The premed path is long and daunting. But what should you do if you’re so committed to becoming a doctor and yet you’re not able to translate that into having good grades? Our poster this week has struggled big time. Unfortunately, he still hasn't found a way to straighten out their grades.

If you haven't already, please sign up for an account at the OldPreMeds.org and feel free to post some questions so we can have them answered here on the podcast.

[01:10] OldPreMeds Question of the Week

"I'm currently in a postbac program as my 'second chance' attempt. I graduated from my undergraduate program with a Biology degree but did horrible. I was not focused and my extra curricular activities were my priority. I ended up graduating with a 2.6 GPA.

I know it would be a good idea for me to apply to a postbac program to show med schools that I actually can succeed in higher level science classes. Unfortunately, this was not the case.

I always have something going on at home with family or I'm working a lot. I think I've been living where I am for so long that I just need a fresh start somewhere else with no distractions. And I only work because it's the only way I can provide for myself but it definitely takes away from my studies. I feel like I'm just a complete failure once again. I earned three C's, a D in the postbac program, which I know looks bad on my transcript but I'm taking the class over I got a D in. I'm most likely not even going to boost my undergraduate GPA over a 3.0 like I thought it would. I've faced the facts that my undergrad GPA will just not be competitive.

Being a doctor is still my dream and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get there even if I have to take a billion more steps than the average but is all hope lost for me? If not, what next steps could I take. Would doing a Master's program be smart? I know it will be difficult convincing any school of my capabilities but I'm ready to put in the work. Any suggestions would be amazing."

Here Are My Thoughts: [02:57] Special Master’s Program

Let's face the facts here. You have shown time and time again that you were not a good student. I'm not sure if taking a Master's coursework is going to fix that for you. What you need to fix is yourself.

As you've mentioned, maybe you just need a fresh start somewhere and get rid of distractions. But you have to really ask yourself if that's going to give you the fresh start. Listen to Episode 230 of The Premed Years Podcast where I talked with Chad who was recently accepted to two medical schools. He was a lot like you who always had something going on and was never able to focus on coursework. He did terrible and didn't do well in his undergrad. He didn't do well in postbac and he got rejected from Caribbean medical schools. I even joked in that podcast that I didn't even know Caribbean schools rejected people but apparently, they do. Chad eventually went on to do a Special Master's Program (SMP), which is basically a Master's postbac. He did well and was accepted to the medical school associated with that SMP and was also accepted at another school.

You could look into something like an SMP. But based on your track record, I’m not sure what's going to change. Perhaps you need to continue taking some undergraduate classes and make sure you're ready to commit to an SMP, which is going to be another $20,000 to $40,000. Don't take that next step unless you know you're ready and unless you have fixed yourself.

[05:14] Focus on Being a Student

In Episode 230 of The Premed Years Podcast, Chad said that he had to quit working then he actually found work that was flexible enough for him to go and do what he needed to do. But for the most part, he got rid of all his commitments and focused on being a student. He lived on food stamps and on different public assistance programs. And this is something for you to think about. What lengths can you go to so you can make sure you have food and shelter but also have time to study?

[06:00] Final Words

Fix those things. Make sure you're dedicated to being a student. Make sure you're just not a bad student and are making other excuses. Get rid of distractions. Take some classes. Do well in them and prove to yourself that you're ready for that next step. Then take that next step. Lastly, look into a Special Master's Program (SMP) which is the only Master's program I would look out for you. Do not do MPH and any other Master's program. Just go to an SMP if you can get into one.

Links:

OldPreMeds.org

MedEd Media Network

Premed Years Podcast Session 230: Rejected from the Caribbean! Now with a US Acceptance!

Session 71

Our poster this week is wondering if applying late is going to hurt his chances of getting into an MD school and if he should just focus on DO schools. Should you “give up” applying to MD schools just because you’re taking the MCAT at a later date?

[01:15] OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

"I'm beginning to realize that I might have to give up on MD and focus on DO only. I'm taking O. Chem 2 and Philosophy this summer and will have all prereqs completed except the Biochem and Bio3 for those schools that require it. Although I wanted to take O. Chem at another place, I had to take it at this community college because of timing. The problem is that this community college is one of those "Harvard on a hill" types. Science classes and labs are loaded up with busy work and homework. I'm starting to realize that the bulk of my MCAT prep will have to happen after the semester ends, which means June and July and MCAT July 28. That would push my application into mid-September and my understanding from that other site (SDN) is that mid-September is quite late for MD but on time for DO. So what to do? Give up hopes of MD, stick with the DO cycle only? Apply MD and hope for a miracle? I don't have a problem with DO per se as my ultimate goal is Family Medicine or Internal Medicine.

The only issue I have with DO is that most schools have you move after second year and then again after third year. There are few schools that allow both clinical years that would be completed in the same town and those would be the ones I would target. I would not want to apply to schools such as PNWU (Pacific Northwestern University). I don't want to be moving between Alaska, Oregon, Washington, Montana, and Idaho every three months for rotations. My number one choice is UC San Diego but that's going to be a tough one unless my MCAT score rocks. My estimated Science GPA is 3.63. I am an over-represented minority, will have mediocre ECs and LORs., and don't have any kind of amazing life story.”

[03:29] Is August Too Late to Apply?

The poster here is an over-represented minority and interested in UC San Diego but is taking a late MCAT. July 28 MCAT is late and it's not terrible. Well, it's kind of bad. Looking at the date, you're going to get the score back or the school is going to get the score back on Tuesday, August 29. That would be end of August which means it's going to be a late August date.

I recently talked to a premed advisor at a local school who reached out to fifteen medical schools talking about sending committee letters and if a late August committee letter would still be okay. Out of the 15 schools, 12-13 said it was okay and they'd still consider it early while 2-3 of them preferred mid-August. Although this is a small sample size, it goes to show you that a lot of schools out there are still ramping up their admissions in August and September.

[05:05] The Normal Application Time Frame

Remember the normal time frame is to submit in June. Schools get your primary application. For AACOMAS application, schools will start to get it early June this year, while AMCAS application will not get it until late June. They send you secondaries and you fill those out, assuming that schools start to receive secondary applications starting mid-July. Applications start to get looked at and then interview invites start to go out. Following that, they would start accepting people after the interviews.

[05:50] Early Application and Rolling Admissions

Think about where you are in line. If you're going to take a late MCAT, you still need to apply early. Have those transcripts verified early because the biggest hangup in the application is this manual process done by people. So you need to get in line to get your transcripts verified. Get those applications out and start to fill out those secondaries and have the MCAT as the only thing that the school is waiting for.

Hence, there is no reason to "give up" on MD. Just apply and see. I wouldn't NOT apply to MD schools just because it's later in the application cycle. I also disagree with the fact that it's still "on time" for DO considering that the DO application starts to go out before MD applications.

So don't have that mindset of giving up MD just because it's a later application. A lot of people get accepted to MD and DO schools that apply late. Of course, you need good scores and stats to bring you over the hurdle considering it's a rolling admissions process. This is another reason I don't agree with being "on time" for DO because most schools have a rolling admissions process. Either way, if you're applying late to either application cycle, you're still going to be later in the cycle for everybody. This means less interview spots available and if you get one and are interviewed, it's going to be a little bit later. Typically, there are less acceptances to hand out because it's a rolling admissions process.

[08:16] Final Thoughts

Don't give up on MD. Apply to both MD and DO and do your best. Give it your best shot. Ideally, you're taking the MCAT earlier but it is what it is. I hope you understand the importance of taking it earlier in the application cycle. As I'm recording this in 2017, the latest that I'm pushing students back to is mid-June because then if you get your score back in mid-July (the date secondaries are coming back if you're up-to-date) and so it's not delaying the application a lot, if at all. Ideally, take the MCAT in March or April but if you need to take it a little bit later, then do it. You obviously want to take it when you're prepared. Do not take it early just because you have to. There's a big difference there.

Links:

MedEd Media Network

AMCAS

AACOMAS

Session 70

The MCAT is hard. Being a nontrad and studying for the MCAT can seem impossible. Should you quit your job to study for the MCAT full-time? That is the question.

We take your questions directly from the OldPreMeds.org forums and answer them here on the podcast. If you haven't yet, sign up for an account and join this awesome community.

[01:20] OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

"I'm debating whether I should resign from my job or not. I graduated last year and have been balancing working a very full-time job, 40-50 hours a week, and MCAT studying. I've taken the old MCAT before the change happened in January and scored a 20 literally but I'm a very good student with a 3.97 GPA. I was taking a Kaplan course at that time while taking three science courses and thesis and cram-studied for 18 days. In retrospect, I needed to strategize and needed more time."

Note: This student was obviously taking the January 2015 test and I'm assuming they cram-studied because they were trying to take the test prior to the change to the new MCAT.

"I'm aiming to take the exam in January of 2017. I already unofficially pushed back the exam twice due to events at work and feel like I need to study head-on but I haven't seen much improvement despite on and off studying since last October. My biggest fear is quitting and not doing as well on the exam as I've hoped. But I'm also so tired when I come home from work and I know that something needs to change at work. Financially, I have about three months worth of rent for New York City and I;m concerned about finding a job to sustain me after my exam.

But my main focus at this point is to do well on the exam and I don't want delay taking this exam anymore. I'm going to ask my employer if I can take a one-month leave of absence from late December to my January exam date and somehow find a way to use my vacation days so I can work three to four days a week. Would this be enough time to improve my score to 510+? My first Kaplan practice test score was 491. I'm determined to do well but for some reason, I'm not making much progress on this exam. Or is quitting your job for the exam worth it for the exam? Would med schools look unfavorably if I were to study for the MCAT head-on?”

Here are my thoughts: [03:50] The MCAT is Like No Other

I don't think med schools care if you quit your job and only studied for the MCAT. They just want to see you have a good grade. So you don't really want to worry about that.

This student was good in school but bombed the MCAT, studying for 18 days and trying to cram in one of those last test dates in January 15, like every other student was trying to do and didn't do well with a 20.

My first point is that the MCAT is not like any other test you're going to see in your life through your undergrad years or your postbac years. It doesn't care if you have a 3.97 GPA. All it cares about is how well you're going to do on the MCAT. So you need to well on the MCAT which means studying specifically for the MCAT and that also means studying for more than 18 days.

[05:30] Take Many Practice Tests

This was actually posted in August and the poster was looking at taking it in January and possibly taking a one month leave of absence to cram for the MCAT. I still consider one month as cramming for the MCAT. The goal is to take many practice tests. Go and listen to The MCAT Podcast, if you don't already, where you we cover topics like how long to study for the MCAT or how many practices tests should you take, and all of these types of questions.

[06:18] Should You Quit Your Job?

Every job is different. There is a difference between a librarian job which is relatively easy compared to this job that this poster has, working 40-50 hours a week and coming home too tired to study. That's a huge difference! Therefore, you need to take into account what your life is, your job life, and the amount of energy you have to give to prepare for the MCAT. Your priority would be MCAT but you obviously have to sustain yourself financially with living, food, and everything else. But this poster only has their three months worth of rent. So could you take on a room mate? Or go and live in with somebody? Adjust your lifestyle to make it a priority to study for the MCAT.

[07:33] The Best Case Scenario

The best case scenario is always studying full-time for the MCAT. But that is not reasonable for everyone and not a doable thing. So you need to be able to study as much as possible and that means you may have to adjust some things like going down to doing part-time, or going down to three or four days a week, or to four or five hours a day instead of 40-50 hours a week.

[08:03] My Final Thoughts

Again, the MCAT comes first. It doesn't matter if you quit your job and study full-time. The medical schools are not going to look at that negatively. One month is not enough time to study for the MCAT for most people. If you think about a normal study schedule, you're taking the unscored AAMC MCAT a week before your exam, you're taking one of their scored two weeks before the exam, you're taking one of their scored three weeks before the exam, and then you're taking four or five or six other full-length practice exams for the month before that. So you're looking at about two months minimum to start fitting in practice exams and doing everything else. As you can see, it takes some time so you need to plan it.

Links:

MedEdMedia Network

The MCAT Podcast

AAMC practice tests

The MCAT Podcast 34: How Many MCAT Practice Tests Should I Take?

The MCAT Podcast 37: How Do I Know If I’m Ready to Take the MCAT

Session 69

Taken directly from the OldPreMeds.org forums, today's question comes from Kyle, a student who's not really sure if he's interested in medicine. If you think you’re on the same boat as Kyle then all the more reason you should listen to this episode.

This question basically relates a little bit to The Premed Years Session 229, where I spoke with Renee, a 54-year-old medical student. She was actually 53 when she reapplied to medical school. She was a former nurse turned nurse practitioner turned nurse educator and had a very successful career. But at the back of her mind, she has always wanted to be a physician. Through the encouragement of her kids, she actually went back and finally made a leap. Listen to her story about how she took the MCAT five times and had to reapply to medical school but was finally successful and is now a medical student.

By the way, we have a new podcast coming up where we will be covering USMLE Step 1 and COMLEX Level 1, the first part of the board exams that you take as a medical student. Stay tuned as it will be out in a couple of weeks.

[03:25] OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

" I really need some objectivity right now. Up and down academic trend maybe 3.0 Science GPA, maybe a 3.1, graduated with a Allied Health degree, not strong GPA throughout program, finally picked it up final semester of my degree. Prereqs General Biology 1 - 3.7 after retake. General Biology 2 - 3.0. Postback, informal, very slow-paced right now. Chem 1 retake -4.0, Genetic - 4.0, Chem 2 - currently taking.

 Here's the deal. I'm just not sure I really want to be a physician. There's a lot that goes into this thinking but fundamentally, I'm not sure I want to do what a doctor does. I've done volunteering, shadowing, etc. I like the science side of it and not really dealing with treating or caring for people. I've gone from pre-nursing, pre-pharm, to premed throughout my academic career and currently in a health profession that is none of those but I'm enjoying my job. Who else out there is struggling with this doubt? But it's not just doubt in my abilities, work ethic, time to do this while working full time. But like I said, fundamentally, I don't think I want that role like I once did. If someone was there before, what brought you back to pursue medicine? You hear that cliche that if you can see yourself doing something other than being a doctor, then don't become a doctor. This has been an ongoing multi-year, multi-seasoned fight and I just don't know if I have what it takes nor if I really want this."

[05:07] Here are my thoughts:

The short answer is go find something else to do. It's as simple as that. The role of a physician is very much ingrained in patient care. When you say you're not sure you want to do what a doctor does and that you really don't like dealing with treating or caring for people, that right there tells me that you should not be a doctor. And that's is truly okay.

I talk about it on The Premed Years Podcast all the time that it is great to realize that you don't want to be a doctor because it's a long, hard, and expensive process. Then in the end, a lot of physicians actually question whether it was all worth it and a lot of physicians do not like being a doctor anymore. So for you to find this out now is great! Go find something else that you love to do. It doesn't even have to be in health care. You've talked about going from pre-nursing to pre-pharm to premed. Get out of medicine altogether and find something else that you really love.

[06:35] A Farewell to Being Premed

If you're struggling with similar things as Kyle is, I highly recommend you listen to Session 29 of The OldPreMeds Podcast where I read a post from somebody who wrote a farewell letter to being a premed. It's a great post from somebody who realized that it wasn't just what they wanted anymore. And that's okay.

Going back to Kyle, congratulations for figuring this out. Go enjoy whatever it is that you're meant to do. Go find it.

Links:

OldPreMeds.org

The Premed Years Podcast Specialty Stories Podcast

The Premed Years Podcast Session 229: 54-Year-Old Med Student Overcame 5 MCAT s, Rejection, and More

The OldPreMeds Podcast Session 29: A Farewell Letter to Being Premed

Session 68

Our poster this week is trying to decide between two postbac programs in New York and is worried about picking one that may be looked less upon based on the name.

We take questions directly from the OldPreMeds.org forums and answer them here on the podcast. "Old premed” is a relative term as you could be a 23-year-old “old premed” or be a 40, 50, or even 60-year-old “old premed.” In this case, an old premed refers to a nontraditional premed student. So if you consider yourself one (or even if you're a traditional student), you are welcome to be a part of our community and we'll be happy to answer any questions from you.

OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

"I'm having a hard time deciding between Fordham or Hunter for my postbac. While Hunter is cheaper, I do not want to get caught up in their bad bureaucracy or have to take an extra semester because I couldn't get a class seat. Additionally, I cannot apply to Hunter until January versus my Fordham admissions rep saying he would process my application in two weeks and I can start this summer. It's more risky applying to Hunter and I don't want to delay my goals for a year on the chance I might not get in.

Fordham's night and weekend classes would usually free up my schedule for shadowing and volunteering while letting me study during my peak hours as a morning person. Hunter seems to offer more resources, guest lectures, advising. Both programs offer committee letters. My biggest fear is Fordham won't be prestigious enough and harm my application. Is my final GPA truly what med schools care most about?"

Here are my insights: [03:06] Is It Good Enough?

This comes up a lot when parents and students try to decide which institution to go to for undergrad, for postbac, or for medical school because you're worrying about the name of the school and how it will affect your application to medical school or residency. "Is it good enough?" That is the never-ending cycle of question.

My simple answer is - Yes. It is good enough.

Schools are accepting students from all over the country and the world. They are taking students from community colleges or rural liberal arts schools. They are also taking students from the big names like Harvard. And it's based on numbers.

My alma mater, the University of Florida, has one of the largest state schools in the country and they typically produce the most medical school matriculants every year. It's a huge, well-known state school and it's not known for the academics, in fact, it's one of the top party schools. But it's still a great school that produces a lot of students. Hence, it's not the name of the institution that you will be judged upon by medical schools.

[05:06] How to Choose Your School

Sure, there are medical schools that would look at an institution’s name and some admissions committee members may have their biases. But this should not be the driving factor in your decision, but rather, everything else that you talked about in terms of how it works with your schedule, how it fits with your internal clock as a morning person, etc. This is how you should be judging these things and not based on the institution's prestige. On The Premed Years Podcast, I talk a lot about choosing a school that will make you great, not choosing a great school. Just because a certain school has a great name attached to it doesn't mean you will flourish there. You need to choose a school that will help you be great and will let you shine.

Links:

OldPreMeds.org

The Premed Years Podcast

University of Florida

Fordham University

Hunter University

Session 67

This week’s question is all about shadowing, basically some do’s and don’ts to make sure you get the most out of your shadowing experience.

We take questions directly from the OldPreMeds.org forums. If you haven't yet, go register for an account. It's free and easy. Feel free to ask questions.

OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

From Lydia:

"I'm preparing for my first shadowing experience. I'll be shadowing a heme/oncologist MD. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make the most of my experience. I'm planning on bringing a notebook and some good questions. Any other ideas or suggestions or must-ask questions? Thanks!"

Here are my insights: [01:34] Shadowing and Clinical Experience

Shadowing is so important in the game of premed life in order for you to understand what medicine is like. However, please note that shadowing and clinical experience are two different things.

Clinical experience involves hands-on interaction with patients where you help them do things and talk to them. Hence, you are really interacting with them.

Shadowing, on the other hand, is supposed to be a very passive experience where you're literally a shadow because you're there standing in a corner or behind the physician or beside the physician to just watch and observe. You're not there to ask questions during the patient interaction. You're not there to talk to the patients. Some physicians, however, are okay with students who shadow to do exams on the patient, if the patient allows it obviously.

Some physicians will ask your thoughts during an exam or during taking a patient's history.  Basically, every physician is different.

So just go in with the assumption that you're only going to stand there, watch, and be silent. Your opportunity to ask questions to the physician happens afters the patient encounter  but only if they allow you to. Some physicians won't give you any time to ask questions while other physicians will let you ask questions in between every patients. But just go in with the assumption that you won't be able to ask questions or interact in any way and that you're just going to be following the physician around. Anything else that is above and beyond that assumption is great.

[03:57] What to Bring

Don't go in with anything (notebook, pens, paper, etc.) unless it's a tiny book that will fit in your pocket. You're going in dressed up in business casual unless you're told something else by the physician or the clinic where you're shadowing. Go in with as little as possible so that you are not burdening the clinic with needing to store your stuff. Leave your backpack or purse in the car. Go in with nothing. The less you have, the better.

[05:05] Questions to Ask

Let the questions come to you naturally as you leave. Don't go in with a list of questions with what medicine is like and what life is like. Just ask questions at the end of the day about what you saw that day or the process  you saw during that day. As you build that relationship, more and more of these questions can come. Ask questions about the patient at the end of the day. Do not ask a generic list of questions because that is not necessary.

[05:50] Taking Notes

As you're done for the day, you may now get your notebook out and start journaling -physician's name, dates and times, what you saw, what left an impression on you, what made an impact on you, diseases you've seen, the kind of patient interaction the physician had, what you liked or not liked about what you saw that day, what could have been done better or different. Write those things down and be sure to keep a journal of all your interactions of shadowing, volunteering  (even including the non-medical stuff). Keep a journal of all your experiences because this can help you with filling out your AMCAS application, AACOMAS application, or the Texas Medical and Dental Application Service in that you have these memories and notes to go back to.

Links:

OldPreMeds.org

The Premed Years Podcast

MedEd Media Network

AMCAS application

ACOMAS application

Texas Medical and Dental Application Serviced Media Network

Session 66

This week, a student asked about retaking old prerequisite classes that they previously did well in, hoping to better prepare for the MCAT. The classes that the poster has been considering to take, however, are online. What are the options?

If you have any questions, register for an account at OldPreMeds.org and join the collaborative community there.

OldPreMeds Question of the Week:

"I am 'stuffling' (I wasn’t really sure what the poster meant by this word) in deciding whether or not to retake my science courses online. I took most classes, bio and general chem, about ten years ago and recently took some courses to prep for the MCAT. I took the MCAT two years ago and scored a 500.

I want to retake all science classes to help me prepare better for the MCAT. Unfortunately, I can't do daytime classes because I work and I have a family to support and the schools where I live do not offer these classes in the evening. Will it be okay if I took these classes online? Will medical schools accept them or am I better off not retaking these courses. My science GPA is 3.7 and my overall is 3.9.  I really want to apply to medical school as soon as possible as I'm 31. But I really need a bit more review on physics because that is my weakest point. Any advice would be helpful."

Here are my thoughts: [03:00] Prerequisite Classes

Retaking the MCAT is obviously a huge endeavor. 500 is not a great score but it's a score and a 3.7/3.9 is a great GPA. Interestingly, you only mentioned Bio and General chemistry so I'm wondering if you really understand all the prereqs for medical school. Now with the new MCAT, it's not just Biology but also, Psychology, Sociology, Organic Chemistry, Biochemistry. Some of the medical schools are adding some of those Psychology and Sociology classes to their prereqs so that's something to look into.

[04:00] Taking Online Prereqs

If you go back to OPM Session 18, it talks about online degrees. But the person here is just taking online courses to supplement her previous courses in order to give her a better foundation for the MCAT.

My biggest piece of advice is to look into the MSAR (for MD schools) and look at the requirements for each of the schools since they will tell you whether or not they accept online courses.

In this situation, you did well in your courses to begin with (assuming you did all of the prereqs) so let's say you're taking these online courses not to boost your GPA but as a refresher. This is something you have to ask the medical about. Reach out to the school and present your situation telling them you did well in your previous classes. Since they're older, are they going to take these older classes? And would it be okay if you took these online courses now not for boosting your GPA but really just to prepare for the MCAT.

[05:52] MCAT Prep Course

Another option is just to apply and see what happens. 500 is not a great score but it's the average MCAT score so it will limit what schools will look at you.

The last options is spend the money on a MCAT prep course instead of online courses and use the MCAT prep course materials to relearn the information you need to learn. Personally, this would be the route I would take. I would self-teach myself, use Khan Academy videos online, and take a look at the Massive Online Open Courses (MOOCs) from Stanford University for example and see if they have any Physics courses online for free. I'd take a look at whatever online resources are out there and self-teach myself through those online resources and through the study material from these courses. Check out Next Step Test Prep, specifically their new MCAT class where they teach you the material online and at your own pace. They also have online office hours five days a week to have your questions answered. Compared to other big-named companies, they have more materials and they're much cheaper. Save some money by using the code MSHQ.

Links:

Next Step Test Prep

OPM Session 18

MSAR

Khan Academy

Massive Online Open Courses (MOOCs)

MedEd Media Network

OldPreMeds.org

The Premed Years Podcast

The MCAT Podcast

Specialty Stories Podcast

The Short Coat Podcast