While at NDC London, Carl and Richard check in with Bob Martin about a variety of subjects - starting with healthcare.gov. The conversation really digs into the fundamentals of professionalism - should the customer take precedent over the industry? What does it mean to really be a professional? Bob also explores the evolution of development practices, where what was once extreme is now mainstream, and how easy it is to lose sight of our long term goals in the midst of the day-to-day battles to build the best software you can. Great insight from one of the legends!

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