On Side

Guests: Dr Sian Clancy, Alexis Cooper, Kelsa Ferguson, Cassie Fien and Nick Paterson

In this episode of On Side we discuss the dangers of supplements and the importance of education in anti-doping to prevent inadvertent doping due to supplements.

This podcast discussion features:

• Dr Sian Clancy, Drug Free Sport New Zealand’s (DFSNZ) General Manager Athlete Services,
• Alexis Cooper, Sport Integrity Australia’s Director of Education and Innovation,
• Kelsa Ferguson, US Anti-Doping Agency’s Health Professional Educator Specialist, and
• Cassie Fien, Sport Integrity Australia’s Athlete Advisory Group member who was sanctioned for inadvertent supplement use.

For the first time in over a decade in Australia, not a single athlete tested positive to a doping test due to a supplement.

“We [Sport Integrity Australia] realised that we really had to change what we did and what we said,” Cooper said. “So the first thing that we did really was change our messaging.

“Athletes we know are exposed to supplements. We know that some dietitians and nutritionists are telling them to take supplements and some of them are just doing it of their own accord, so we changed it to we recommend Food First. But if you have to take a supplement then you should be using a batch-tested one. That's really the only option as an athlete. And then we took the next step of creating the Sport Integrity app, which included a list of batch-tested supplements sold in Australia to make it easy for athletes to actually do that.”

Inadvertent supplement positives is not an isolated problem, Ferguson said, the problem is global and wider than simply athletes.

“We have cases every year that they're related to supplement use and contamination so supplement risk or a huge part of our athlete education,” she said. “There are many of health professionals out there and doctors that also aren't aware of the risks and they're recommending supplement use to athletes. And it's important for us to educate them the same way that we educate athletes on here, or the risk here where you can go and check.”

Dr Clancy said DFSNZ is focusing on “understanding, I guess, the normalisation of this and the prevalence of supplement use in trying as best we can to provide those tools to athletes so that they can navigate what is a really complex environment”.

Australian marathon runner Cassie Fien found out about the danger of supplements the hard way – and was sanctioned for nine months. She “still suffers from mental health issues” as a result.

“I did have a choice to just go and hideaway and never go back to my sport,” she said. “But that wasn't an option for me in the sense of it's a part of my identity. It's my purpose in life and it's what brings me so much joy. Also I knew that I didn't have anything to be ashamed of… I still take responsibility for it in the sense of my maybe naivety for being not as educated as I need it to be.”

Later in the program, we also talk to the Drug Free Sport New Zealand CEO Nick Paterson about his views on education, anti-doping globally and the recent announcement that New Zealand will be combining all of its sport integrity jurisdictions to be under one roof.

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President of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) Witold Bańka says the agency is monitoring the Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) in the wake of the war in Ukraine.

Speaking on Sport Integrity Australia’s On Side podcast at the WADA Global Education Conference, Bańka said the situation remained very complex.   

“The fact that Russian and Belarussian athletes are not competing in internationally, at least majority of them, some of them they are able to compete as in neutral, but the majority are sanctioned, is very, very complicated,” he said.  

“We decided not to close the open line of communication with RUSADA. The world cannot create a paradise for cheats.”  

WADA’s president believes the anti-doping system is currently working well but acknowledges there is always room for improvement.

 “It's a race, you know. It's a race with the cheats,” he said. “We have to be stronger. We have to be faster. We have to have better tools to eradicate doping from sports. The rules are OK, [the] system works, but we still have to think ‘how we can do more?’”

Bańka also talks about the biggest challenges WADA faces, the role education plays in WADA’s development and balancing their role of catching and punishing versus protecting and supporting.

We also sit down with WADA’s Athlete Committee Chair Ben Sandford and 4 x Olympian and Integrity Manager for Boxing, Judo and Taekwondo Bronwen Knox to discuss the importance of the athlete’s voice.

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Today we meet the science and medicine team behind our anti-doping efforts.

In this episode of On Side, our host Tim Gavel talks to some of Sport Integrity Australia’s science and medicine experts - Chief Science Officer Dr Naomi Speers, Science Officer Rima Chakrabarty and Medical Advisor Dr Laura Lallenec.

The trio discusses all things anti-doping - prohibited substances and methods in sports, the dangers supplements pose to an athlete’s career, putting the pieces of the anti-doping puzzle together, and our role working with support personnel and medical professionals to educate athletes.

The evolving nature of anti-doping is part of the attraction for Dr Speers.

“The challenge is keeping on top of everything that’s changing,” Dr Speers says. “Different substances that people might be using and keeping aware of them and making sure that athletes are aware [of the risks], but also changing technology and understanding that and thinking about how can we apply that.

“We have a Blood Passport which looks for blood doping, a Steroid Passport which looks for doping with testosterone and next year an Endocrine Passport [will be included], which will look for doping with growth hormone.”

Trying to understand a doping scenario and apply it to the results is one aspect that fascinates Chakrabarty.

“Is there a physiological cause for that? Is there potentially other substances that have been used, like non-prohibited substances that can cause the impact on the Steroid Passport, for example? And also is your physiology affecting it?

“Have you been doing a lot of training and that's affecting your blood passport? Or have you been to a specific location, like in an altitude … It's got a lot more nuance to it."

“It’s really interesting just to be able to sit down and look at it, what’s possible and try and put a lot more pieces together.”

Dr Lallenec, who is currently Head Doctor at AFL premiership team Melbourne, joined the agency in January to provide medical guidance on sport integrity matters such as the use of prohibited substances and methods in sports, safeguarding of children in the sporting environment, as well as for investigations and intelligence matters.

“I love health administration and health governance as well as public health, so it's sort of combines those two things from me.”

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To understand the integrity threats within sports, Sport Integrity Australia works in close partnership with everyone who holds a piece to the puzzle – including athletes.

In this episode of On Side, join Tim Gavel as he chats to three of our Athlete Advisory Group (AAG) members - former Olympic rower Bronwen Downie, Paralympic triathlete Jonathan Goerlach and Blake Gaudry, a dual Olympic trampolinist.

AAG chair Bronwen Downie says she wants to be part of the solution that allows young people to stay in sport.

“There has to be conversations and we have to be able to hear those to understand what’s actually happening in sports training centres, on sports fields and so that’s where I think athlete voice is growing and it's really great to see that that is being supported through people like Sport Integrity Australia,” she says.

Paralympic triathlete Jonathan Goerlach praised the “different perspectives” of the group.

“The majority of the organisations and the athletes that are in sport in Australia and around the world don't have lived experience with disability and a lot of those policies and decisions that are made governing these sports don't always take into account people with disability because they don't have that lived experience.’

A former trampolinist, Blake Gaudry, too, hopes his role in the Athlete Advisory Group will advance the voice of athletes within the agency.

“Being on this committee, and being part of Sport Integrity Australia, I'm just keen to share those experiences and hopefully shape education and the message the right way so that in the future we can win the smart way, the safe way and, you know, the right way,” he says.

“They're building a framework around member protection, child safety, and I think if we keep moving in that direction, we'll sort of see a sport that’s a lot healthier, happier and athletes with the longevity that we want.”

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Between them, there are too many Paralympic medals to count – but the Commonwealth Games will be a unique experience for both Ellie Cole and Daniela Di Toro, for vastly different reasons.

In this episode of On Side, join Tim Gavel as he chats to Ellie and Daniela as they train for the Commonwealth Games which starts on 28 July – one for the last time, the other the first.

Ellie, who has six Paralympic gold medals in her trophy cabinet, races for the final time in Birmingham, chasing that elusive Commonwealth Games gold medal.

“In my swimming career, over 17 years, I've won 17 Paralympic medals, broken something like five world records and I still can't seem to grasp the Commonwealth Games gold medal … it's the only thing that's missing from my trophy cabinet.”

It has been a long road for the swimmer, who is thrilled at the progress Para sport has made over the past 17 years and the acceptance of Para athletes in the community.

“The biggest difference that I've seen in Paralympic sport is the stigma around athletes with a disability,” Eliie says.

“I saw at the Commonwealth Games in the Gold Coast that young kids were asking how to be Paralympians when they were older, and they were drawing pictures of people in wheelchairs on gold medal podiums. So they're drawing the parallel that you can still have a disability and be a champion. Whereas in 2006, you know, that conclusion was never drawn from seeing someone with a disability.”

With retirement looming, Ellie also discussed her life after swimming, which includes her role on Sport Integrity Australia’s Athlete Advisory Group.

“We have a lot to offer to Sport Integrity Australia as athletes, and it's wonderful to also be the other side of the coin, see that they’re willing to listen and wanting to understand firsthand experiences from us as well.”

By her own admission, it’s been a long time since Daniela has been called a “rookie”, having made her Paralympic Games debut in Atlanta in 1996.

After all, as a wheelchair tennis player, she has won almost all there is to win in her sport: from Paralympic medals to Grand Slam titles to a number-one world ranking.

Now competing as a wheelchair table tennis player, it will be the Victorian veteran’s first time at the Commonwealth Games.

“To be able to have a rookie experience is a really cool thing. So, you know, it's really exciting as well, the actual newness of it. I've never been on a team with able bodied and Para high performance athletes, so it's incredibly exciting,” she says.

“It’s the friendly games, which is really cool that you can kind get to be in this kind of environment that’s super ultra-competitive, but there's real awareness of community and connection and I'm looking forward to that as well.”

While she may be a senior member of the team, just don’t call her the “mother-figure” – she’d prefer to be that “cool Aunty”.

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Former West Coast Eagles captain Eric Mackenzie has been announced as the latest member of Sport Integrity Australia’s Athlete Advisory Group. 

In this episode of On Side, join Tim Gavel as he chats to Eric Mackenzie and Petria Thomas to talk about joining the Athlete Advisory Group, and how the group can be used to make meaningful strides in athlete education. 

The 2014 John Worsfold Medallist says that his experiences as an athlete, as well as an ambassador to the International Testing Agency, have highlighted challenges in educating athletes.  

“Once you’re on an AFL list, trying to schedule in any time to for these education sessions is next to impossible,” Mackenzie says. “There are so many things that they have to do and when they finally get [an education session] in it’s more of a box ticking exercise. 

“There’s no real engagement by the players. Everyone thinks they know or thinks ‘oh well that’s not going to impact me’, so they tune out. Often, it’s done after a main training session or something all you want to do is go somewhere and go to sleep. So, you don’t actually take anything in.” 

Mackenzie acknowledges that there are improvements to be made and says he believes that a focus on education is crucial in preventing integrity threats from occurring.  

“That’s definitely where it can be improved and how it’s delivered is huge, especially to the young guys. You want to be proactive not reactive. You’re better off educating and preventing these things from happening. 

“You look at a couple of instances lately, there’s a lot of great learnings from it, but they need to be used going forward to stop things like this happening again.”  

Former AAG member and now Sport Integrity Australia’s Assistant Director, Petria Thomas, agrees that engaging the athlete in education is the key. 

“At the end of the day, we want to prevent things from happening and education is the best way to achieve that,” she says. 

The agency is working hard to roll out more informative and innovative education, she says. 

“You’ve got to have buy in,” Thomas agrees. “You can produce all the online courses in the world but unless people are buying into it, it doesn’t achieve what we want it to achieve. 

“It’s about finding innovative ways to get the message out to both the organisations that run sport and the member and participants in sport as well.” 

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Travelling 140km/h downhill head-first on ice is not for the faint-hearted, but Jackie Narracott is no shrinking violet. After her first attempt at the sport, she asked: how do I go faster?

Ahead of her second Winter Olympics, which starts in Beijing next week, Narracott talks to On Side about her switch from the track, what it’s like going head-first at 140km/h, her hopes for the upcoming Games, and her impressive family pedigree.

She is, after all, following in the footsteps of her famous uncle, Paul – the first Australian Olympian to compete at both Summer and Winter Games.

Fast forward 10 years and Narracott, who is based in the UK, became the first Australian to win a World Cup gold medal in skeleton when she broke the track record in Switzerland a couple of weeks ago.

That amazing run came in St Moritz, where she broke the track record with a time of 1:08.72 seconds to shock the field. “Everything came together, right time, right place,” she admits. “I’ve always known I can do it, now I’ve got that concrete evidence to say, ‘I’m not crazy, I can actually do it’, which his nice.”

Putting on the Australian jacket for the 2018 Games was “an absolute dream come true”, she says, however she feels she is “in a much better position to perform …. this time around I think it’s about achieving my potential”.

For his part, “Uncle Paul”, who once beat Carl Lewis over 60 metres, told On Side that he was thrilled his exploits “opened her eyes to the fact that there are sporting opportunities other than the mainstream sports”.

He encourages everyone to look beyond traditional sports - like Jackie did.

“It’s a 10-year journey and it’s only really the last 3-4 years where it’s really coming together [for Jackie],” he says. “I thinks she’s a real chance, she’s not a favourite, but she’s a realistic chance [in Beijing].”

We also talk to our most successful Winter Paralympian Michael Milton, who won six gold, three silver and two bronze medals.

“Snow, ice, it’s magical stuff as to how much fun you can have on it,” he says. “How high you can jump. How fast you can go. For me, everything around winter sports is based on snow and ice and it’s fantastic fun to do as an athlete.”

He also discusses our chances at the Paralympics, the impact of Covid-19 on the Games, and how Dylan Alcott is changing society’s perceptions of people with a disability.

“The more people with disabilities that we see in every different area of our lives, whether it be social, whether it be work, whether it be on television as elite athletes, the more we can include people with disabilities in every single area of our life the better off society will be, the better off those people with disabilities will be.”

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Australian swimmer Brenton Rickard’s world was turned upside down when a retest of a urine sample taken at the 2012 London Olympics returned a “low-level” positive result.

With his entire relay team set to be stripped of a bronze medal, Rickard talks to On Side about the difficulties in challenging the allegations eight years later - and at his own expense.

Rickard, who believes an over-the-counter pharmaceutical tablet contained the banned diuretic furosemide, says he felt “hopeless” trying to prove his innocence eight years after the event.

“It’s just an impossible task,” he says. “We could argue the legal case of how and what transpired, but the burden of proof is very much on the defendant to show the contamination and there’s just no way of doing it eight years after the fact.

“When you get notified and just the sheer disbelief, but then you realise the reality is that six people were facing losing an Olympic medal from something that wasn’t my fault.”

The case, and others like it happening at the same time, triggered a landmark change to the World Anti-Doping Agency rules relating to the threshold of banned substances, ultimately leading to the International Olympic Committee withdrawing the charges.

Rickard, who represented Australia in London 2012 and Beijing 2008, is now working with Sport Integrity Australia to help the agency better understand the impact inadvertent doping can have on an athlete’s wellbeing.

“As testing improves, as different processes are put in place to try to catch people who are deliberately cheating, you also need to adjust policies and rules to then not punish innocent people for things outside of their control,” he says.

In this episode we also discuss the science behind low-level detections and why athlete samples are stored and re-tested with Sport Integrity Australia’s Chief Science Officer Dr Naomi Speers.

Dr Speers says the ability to store samples and analyse them is an important part of the anti-doping program.

“It has a really significant deterrence effect,” she says. “Science and technology is constantly advancing and this means we can use the advances of technology in science in the last 10 years and apply them to samples from the past. So that means doping athletes are not only against the science and technology now, but the science and technology of the future.”

Dr Speers also discusses inadvertent doping from pharmaceuticals, the dangers of supplements, the recent WADA rule changes and the major changes to the Prohibited List that will come into effect on 1 January 2022.

Finally, in our segment From Left Field, our athlete educator Annabelle Cleary answers the question “Do you have a case to plea if you tested positive to batch tested supplements?”

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Welcome to Season 3 of On Side. We’re looking forward to monthly episodes as we get ready for the Winter Olympics and Paralympics in Beijing, along with the men’s World Cup and the Birmingham Commonwealth Games.  

Join Tim Gavel as he chats to James Johnson, Emma Johnson and Jacob Holmes, during this pivotal time in Australian sport, and hear them reflect on the potential impact they believe Football Australia’s decision will have on the future of sport in this country. 

Earlier this month a number of Australian female soccer players spoke out about allegations of abuse in the sport and as a result Football Australia approached Sport Integrity Australia and the National Sports Tribunal to investigate the allegations.  

In this episode we look at the importance of having an independent organisation handling complaints, investigations and tribunals in Australian sport.  

Football Australia CEO James Johnson was quick to recognise that an in-house approach to handling complaints was not going to be enough with the Australian community expecting a greater level of independence.  

“It hit the sport like a tsunami and we had to respond quickly and I was comforted by the fact we were already in touch with Sport Integrity Australia about how we could improve in this area, so we were able to enter a partnership very quickly,” he says.  

Johnson acknowledges the need to provide a forum where there can be feedback that is independent of the sport so that victims can feel comfortable and safe, without fear of their complaints impacting the future of their sporting career.  

“It’s about the victims. If someone is aggrieved they need to have an avenue/forum independent of us. They need to be able to talk their experience, their issue and it needs to be someone who is listening and not someone making sporting decisions.” 

“There are two objectives”, says Johnson, “One is about solving the issues for the victims and secondly it’s about breeding confidence back into the sport, that if there are issues, they will be dealt with.” 

Deputy CEO of Sport Integrity Australia, Emma Johnson, is pleased Football Australia agreed to take on the independent complaints handling model. 

“These matters are complex and a lot of sports haven’t always had the capacity to deal with these things, particularly at this serious end of allegations”, she says, “So this was the best way we thought we could support them and support athletes in sport”.  

“We’ve seen in the last twelve months a real shift and an awakening across sport that they need systems and processes in place to deal with issues like this,” she continues, “There’s definitely an appetite across the board for the improvement of integrity policies and culture in sport.”  

Jacob Holmes, CEO of the peak body representing Australia’s elite professional athletes, the Australia Athletes Alliance, concurs.  

“We all want in sport for athletes to feel supported, empowered and that they can come to a confidential body”, says Holmes.  

Holmes highlights there has been a power imbalance for athletes in sport, but the new independent approach to complaints handling goes a long way to giving power back to those who may not have had it otherwise.  

“We have to be better at providing those support mechanisms, a voice and a representation within the actual institutions of integrity in sport for athletes to actually feel empowered in that way,” he says.  

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In the final edition of our Clean and Gold series of On Side, we relive the Paralympic Games highlights with the team’s chef de mission Kate McLoughlin and Channel 7 commentator David Culbert.

Madi de Rozario’s gold and the silver to Jaryd Clifford on the final day of competition brought the team total to 21 gold, 29 silver and 30 bronze.

McLoughlin tells hosts Tim Gavel and Petria Thomas that her main challenge was keeping athletes safe and “making sure they had that opportunity to perform”.

This involved constant changes and reworking of scenario plans to try to ensure they were a step ahead to give athletes every opportunity to perform at their best.

“They are elite athletes in every sense of the word,” she says. “They are just the same as their Olympic counterparts and they dealt with the changes and the challenges so brilliantly.”

She says the whole team was “overwhelmed” with the reaction they received from home.

“The fact that there was 14 hours of coverage in Australia, the fact that people were in lockdown and not able to go anywhere was a silver lining for us in a way,” she says. “…So many more eyeballs on the Paralympic team than ever before and hopefully a realisation of what an amazing team it is.”

McLoughlin believes the focus on performances and not disabilities has been a gradual shift. David Culbert, a commentator for both the Olympic and Paralympic games, agrees.

“At the end of the day the classification system whilst not 100% perfect in Paralympic sport, it groups like athletes with like athletes, so you can remove that element of it and just concentrate on the performance,” he says. “What times they do are only relevant to the times that they do, so therefore you need to know their personal bests, their season’s best, the Paralympic records…”

He says the Games offered a glimpse of hope for people with a disability and their parents.

“The interesting thing about the Paralympics is that there would be a lot of parents that would be worried about their young children who have got a disability, whether it’s congenital or whether it’s acquired, they would be watching that and thinking that’s there’s nothing my son or daughter can’t do…”

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