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Oona Hathway, should we still believe in the global order?
Oona Hathaway on war, global rules, and why business leaders may regret staying silent as international law is violated.
Why does international law matter? How illegal is the Iran war? And what does business have to do with it?
In this episode of Leaders Unplugged, IMD President David Bach hosts Yale professor Oona Hathaway for a candid conversation about war, international law, and the growing strain on the post-war global order.
Hathaway argues that international law is often most important when it is least visible: it works “in the background,” shaping what states know they can and can’t do. But when leaders start treating the rules as optional, even the unthinkable suddenly seems possible. As she puts it, “international law tends to be fairly invisible when it’s working well,” but now “the Trump administration is putting this all on the table.”
She also warns that “business leaders have been really quiet,” even as the erosion of legal norms introduces new volatility into global markets. Her message to them is clear: “If they don't speak out and if the president actually does what he's threatening to do, we're going to be in a much more unstable world where business is going to be extraordinarily risky.”
Our guest
Oona Hathaway
Gerard C. and Bernice Latrobe Smith Professor of International Law, Yale Law School
Oona Hathaway is one of the world’s leading experts on international law and global governance. She is a professor at Yale Law School and Yale University, and president-elect of the American Society of International Law. She is co-author of The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World, and author of the upcoming book, Citizens.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oona-hathaway
BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/oonahathaway.bsky.social
Yale profile: https://law.yale.edu/oona-hathaway
Personal website: oonahathaway.com
Resources
- Over 100 International Law Experts Warn: U.S. Strikes on Iran Violate UN Charter and May Be War Crimes: https://www.justsecurity.org/135423/professors-letter-international-law-iran-war/
- The Internationalists (Hathaway & Shapiro): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/561345/the-internationalists-by-oona-a-hathaway-and-scott-j-shapiro/
- UN Charter: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter
- Geneva Conventions: https://www.icrc.org/en/war-and-law
View all episodes
By IMDOona Hathaway on war, global rules, and why business leaders may regret staying silent as international law is violated.
Why does international law matter? How illegal is the Iran war? And what does business have to do with it?
In this episode of Leaders Unplugged, IMD President David Bach hosts Yale professor Oona Hathaway for a candid conversation about war, international law, and the growing strain on the post-war global order.
Hathaway argues that international law is often most important when it is least visible: it works “in the background,” shaping what states know they can and can’t do. But when leaders start treating the rules as optional, even the unthinkable suddenly seems possible. As she puts it, “international law tends to be fairly invisible when it’s working well,” but now “the Trump administration is putting this all on the table.”
She also warns that “business leaders have been really quiet,” even as the erosion of legal norms introduces new volatility into global markets. Her message to them is clear: “If they don't speak out and if the president actually does what he's threatening to do, we're going to be in a much more unstable world where business is going to be extraordinarily risky.”
Our guest
Oona Hathaway
Gerard C. and Bernice Latrobe Smith Professor of International Law, Yale Law School
Oona Hathaway is one of the world’s leading experts on international law and global governance. She is a professor at Yale Law School and Yale University, and president-elect of the American Society of International Law. She is co-author of The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World, and author of the upcoming book, Citizens.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oona-hathaway
BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/oonahathaway.bsky.social
Yale profile: https://law.yale.edu/oona-hathaway
Personal website: oonahathaway.com
Resources
- Over 100 International Law Experts Warn: U.S. Strikes on Iran Violate UN Charter and May Be War Crimes: https://www.justsecurity.org/135423/professors-letter-international-law-iran-war/
- The Internationalists (Hathaway & Shapiro): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/561345/the-internationalists-by-oona-a-hathaway-and-scott-j-shapiro/
- UN Charter: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter
- Geneva Conventions: https://www.icrc.org/en/war-and-law