Opinion Party: the marketing podcast
brought to you by BAV Group & IRG 

Season 2: Episode 12
The Focus Factor:  Why Slowing Down Accelerates Results with Ashley Wray
Click here to view the episode transcript.

SUMMARY

In our season finale, Laura Jones (Global CEO, BAV Group) welcomes mindfulness expert and executive coach Ashley Wray to challenge the myth that corporate wellness programs automatically create mindful organizations. Drawing from her journey from journalist to meditation expert, Ashley introduces her concept of "microdosing mindfulness" as an alternative to forced company-wide initiatives. 

She shares her powerful "Three Ps" framework—it's not personal, it's not perfect, it's not permanent—which helps leaders foster psychological safety and team flow. The conversation reveals how mindfulness practices deliver measurable business impact through enhanced creativity, improved team dynamics, and better decision-making. Ashley concludes with a guided meditation demonstrating how accessible these techniques can be for marketing professionals seeking better focus and innovation.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Ashley Wray: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-wray/
• ROI of Wellbeing: https://www.ashleywray.co/roi
• Ashley’s Meditations on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1b1TVn3CegTMlruTSPLLcA
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.org

TAKEAWAYS

• Mindfulness = awareness of thoughts without attachment
• Internal self-compassion creates stronger leadership
• "Wellness washing" undermines authentic brand integration
• Burnout prevention drives corporate wellness investment
• Leader self-reflection builds psychological safety
• "Three Ps" framework provides practical mindfulness approach
• Intentional meeting breaks improve team performance
• Connect mindfulness to existing habits for sustainability
• Present moment awareness enables flow states
• Small daily moments outperform occasional wellness events

CHAPTERS

00:11 Challenging the Corporate Wellness Myth

04:56 Corporate Leaders and Mindfulness Challenges 

06:46 The ROI Question in Mindfulness 

11:43 The Three Benefits: Compassion, Creativity, and Trust 

13:04 Wellness-Washing: When Brands Misuse Mindfulness 

20:30 Post-COVID Shift in Corporate Mindfulness 

23:54 The Cost of Burnout and the Value of Team Flow 

25:57 The Three Ps: Not Perfect, Not Permanent, Not Personal

29:23 Microdosing Mindfulness in Daily Work Life 

31:12 Connecting Sports Performance and Business Leadership 

33:00 Guided One-Minute Meditation Experience 

36:11 Tips for Starting a Mindfulness Practice

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by:
BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results. Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth
We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth. Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast
brought to you by BAV Group & IRG 

Season 2: Episode 11
The Five Promises of Effective AI-Powered Personalization with David C. Edelman

SUMMARY
In this episode author and marketing expert, David C. Edelman, joins host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group about the critical role of marketing leaders in driving personalization strategies within organizations.  They discuss the need for collaboration across the C-suite, the importance of understanding customer experiences, and the necessity of leveraging technology and insights to empower customers effectively.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• David C. Edelman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveedelman/
• Personalized: Customer Strategy in the Age of AI: https://www.edelmanadvisoryservices.com/publications
• IRG Humanized Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com/humanized-growth
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.org

TAKEAWAYS

• Personalization must empower customers to achieve their goals.
• Trust is built through delivering on promises in personalization.
• Understanding customer context is crucial for effective personalization.
• Personalization can enhance customer experiences but can also feel invasive.
• The five promises of personalization are empowering, knowing, reaching, showing, and delighting customers.
• Marketing leaders should orchestrate personalization strategies across the organization.
• Agile marketing practices can enhance responsiveness and effectiveness in personalization.
• Generative AI tools are transforming how personalization is executed.
• Companies must prioritize customer perspectives to avoid pitfalls in personalization.
• Successful personalization strategies can drive significant business growth.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Personalization and AI

02:29 The Five Promises of Personalization

11:10 Organizing for Personalization Success

14:05 Tools for Effective Personalization

18:29 Common Pitfalls in Personalization

23:13 Generational Perspectives on Personalization

26:56 Creating Value Through Personalization

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by: 

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results.
Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth
We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth.
Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast
Season 2: Episode 10
From Rocket Ships to YouTube Clips: A Legacy Brand's Culture of Innovation with WD-40's Claudia Fenske

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Claudia Fenske, VP of Global Brand and Innovation at WD-40, discusses the revitalization of legacy brands, emphasizing that innovation is possible even for established companies. She shares insights into WD-40's culture of innovation, user engagement, and the importance of learning from failures. The discussion also highlights the significance of connecting with end users and the role of community in driving brand loyalty and innovation.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Claudia Fenske: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claudia-fenske-a477a267/
• WD-40 Company: https://wd40company.com
• IRG Humanized Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com/humanized-growth
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.org

TAKEAWAYS

• Legacy brands can innovate and stay relevant.
• WD-40's origins are rooted in solving real problems.
• Innovation is part of WD-40's DNA.
• User engagement drives product development.
• Sustainability is a key focus for WD-40.
• Failures are viewed as learning moments.
• Connecting with users creates brand loyalty.
• Community involvement enhances brand perception.
• Embracing change is essential for growth.
• Trusting your inner voice is crucial for innovators. 
  
  

CHAPTERS

00:00 Revitalizing Legacy Brands

06:04 Innovation Culture at WD-40

12:03 User Engagement and Community

18:01 Embracing Failure and Learning

23:52 Advice for Innovators in Legacy Brands

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by:
BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results.
Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth
We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth.
Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

SUMMARY

Challenging the myth that marketing is "fluffy stuff," Aljan de Boer, Community Director at the Institute for Real Growth (IRG), joins Laura Jones (Global CEO, BAV Group) to reveal how elite CMOs transform human connection into competitive advantage. Drawing from IRG's work with 800+ marketing leaders, Aljan demonstrates how translating societal shifts directly impacts future cash flows—the language CFOs respect. The conversation showcases how marketing leaders who embrace their role as "windows to the world" are uniquely positioned to drive profitable solutions for real human problems, creating value across all stakeholders while delivering measurable business results.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Aljan de Boer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aljandeboer/
• IRG Humanized Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com/humanized-growth
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.org
• Ikigai of Marketing: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com/pdf/TheFounderPerspectiveTheIkigaiofMarketing.pdf

TAKEAWAYS

• Marketers serve as "windows to the world," translating societal shifts into future cash flow opportunities
• In uncertain times with declining trust in governments, brands have a responsibility to guide consumer behavior
• Humanized growth creates value across all stakeholders: colleagues, customers, communities, and capital markets
• Profitable problem-solving is the formula for marketing success in today's complex business environment
• Deep human connection among leaders drives better business outcomes than focusing on titles and achievements
• Marketing's value to the C-suite comes from translating social-cultural trends into future business opportunities
• Purpose-aligned product innovation (like Dole's vegan leather from pineapple waste) creates new revenue streams
• Most brands (60-70%) are irrelevant to consumers—only those creating meaningful value will survive
• Leadership retreats that strip away professional identities help executives reconnect with their core purpose
• Marketing is uniquely positioned to influence sustainable consumer behavior where government action falls short

CHAPTERS

00:11 The Myth: Is Marketing Just "Fluffy Stuff"?

00:55 Aljan's Role: Building Community Among 800+ CMOs

01:47 The Evolving Challenges of Modern Marketing Leadership

03:14 The Personal Toll of Post-COVID Productivity Culture

04:16 Aljan's Ikigai: Connecting Business with Humanity

06:04 "Human-Proofing" the Future: Creating Relevant, Meaningful Value

07:16 Marketers as "Windows to the World" for Organizations

08:06 Translating Societal Understanding into Future Cash Flow

09:32 IRG's Transformative Experiences: Beyond Business Cards

11:00 The Power of Deep Leadership Retreats in Nature

12:05 Building Lasting Community Among Marketing Leaders

14:03 The Transformative "Crossroads" Question

15:30 The "Where Are You From?" Exercise: Connecting to Core Identity

17:01 Brands as Guides in an Uncertain World

18:17 The Shift from Serving to Guiding Consumer Behavior

19:12 Managing Resistance to Deep Personal Work

21:24 The Humanized Growth Champion Program

22:20 Case Study: Dole's Pineapple Waste to Vegan Leather

23:13 Case Study: Intel's Fake News Identifier

24:10 Profitable Problem-Solving Within Capitalism

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by: 

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results.
Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth
We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth.
Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast
brought to you by BAV Group & IRG 

Season 2: Episode 8

Be Worthy of Emulation: Creating Meaningful Business Growth with Vodacom's Andisa Ntsubane

SUMMARY

Challenging the myth that "it's not personal, it's business," Andisa Ntsubane, Executive Director of Vodacom Africa Brand Marketing and Communications, shares with Laura Jones (Global CEO, BAV Group) how purpose-driven marketing delivers measurable business results. His "worthy of emulation" leadership philosophy has transformed Vodacom's approach to solving market challenges, resulting in innovations like M-Pesa, which processes $1.2 billion in daily transactions. As the first African president of Cannes Lions' B2B jury, Andisa demonstrates how diversity in leadership changes which work gets recognized globally. The conversation reveals a powerful framework for creating shared value: addressing critical customer needs while driving business growth, with Africa positioned not as a challenge but as the world's greatest laboratory for business innovation.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Andisa Ntsubane: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andisa-ntsubane-cm-sa-fcxp-cx-i-6b258177/
• Africa 2063: https://www.nepad.org/agenda2063
• Vodacom: https://www.vodacom.co.za
• M-Pesa: https://www.vodafone.com/about-vodafone/what-we-do/m-pesa 
• Cannes Lions: https://www.canneslions.com/awards/jury/andisa-ntsubane-392222
• Moodset Tedx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaEz5AXpgUk
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.org
• Ikigai of Marketing: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com/pdf/TheFounderPerspectiveTheIkigaiofMarketing.pdf

TAKEAWAYS

• Purpose as profit driver: Funding vaccines for customers during COVID wasn't charity—it ensured business sustainability
• Reframe developing markets: Africa's challenges represent your greatest opportunity for innovation and profit
• Simple innovations create massive value: M-Pesa's $1.2B daily transactions came from solving basic payment friction
• B2B brands have untapped power: DP World's 3° temperature adjustment removed emissions of 3.8M cars
• Leadership mindset matters: Creating intentional "mood sets" measurably drives team performance
• Personal transformation drives business transformation: Deep purpose work unlocks leadership breakthroughs
• Representation changes outcomes: Having Africans on Cannes juries meant African work finally won
• "Worthy of emulation" provides a powerful decision filter for both business and personal choices
• Building cross-industry leadership communities creates tangible competitive advantage
• Solve problems profitably: The most successful businesses make significant money addressing real needs

CHAPTERS

00:10 Busting the Myth: "It's Not Personal, It's Business" 

01:45 Introducing Andisa Ntsubane: The Afro-Optimist 

03:20 The Transformative Impact of the IRG Community 

06:11 The Panama Retreat: Finding Personal Purpose 

10:06 The "Worthy of Emulation" Philosophy 

14:01 Representation Matters: Driving African Presence at Cannes 

16:48 B2B Brands Solving the World's Biggest Problems 

19:42 The Success Story of M-Pesa: Mobile Money Innovation 

22:33 Africa as the Greatest Business Opportunity 

24:54 Humanized Growth in Action: Vaccines During COVID 

28:34 Different Perspectives, Same Opportunity

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by: 

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results. Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth
We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth. Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

SUMMARY

In this episode, Catarina Barradas, Global Brand Director at EDP joins host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, and reveals how brand  can drive core business transformation. With a background spanning engineering and film, Barradas led a comprehensive rebranding that engaged 2,500 stakeholders and resulted in the "We Choose Earth" brand signature after EDP announced plans to be net zero by 2040, She shares her "walk the talk" methodology and a framework for elevating brand from communication function to business transformation catalyst in a rapidly changing industry.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Catarina Barradas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catarina-barradas-19201221c/
• EDP: https://www.edp.com/en
• EDP ESG Ratings: https://www.edp.com/en/responsible-action/transparency-and-reports/esg-ratings
• World Energy Outlook: https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2024
• EDP Rebrand: https://www.pentagram.com/work/edp
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

TAKEAWAYS

• Brand strategy can drive business transformation, not just reflect it 
• Strategic rebranding requires aligning business goals, internal purpose, and external positioning
• Leading with an inside-out approach builds stronger employee advocacy and brand authenticity 
• "Walk the talk" by implementing projects first, then telling their stories to avoid greenwashing 
• Adapt global brand strategy to local market needs while maintaining consistency 
• Translate industry jargon into simple messages focusing on tangible benefits for stakeholders 
• Geopolitical awareness allows brands to pivot strategies while keeping core purpose intact 
• Cross-functional collaboration ensures brand storytelling remains authentic and impactful 
• Building board-level support requires demonstrating brand's role in business performance 
• Continuous evolution of brand narratives is essential as stakeholder priorities shift

CHAPTERS

00:00 Unpacking the Myth of Brand Strategy

02:48 Catarina’s Unique Journey to Brand Leadership

05:44 The Connection Between Brand and Business Strategy

08:37 The Rebranding Process at EDP

11:41 Adapting Brand Strategy to Diverse Markets

14:40 Transforming Brand into Business Driver

19:51 Navigating Challenges and Skepticism

24:47 Evolving the Brand in a Changing Landscape

29:35 Advice for CMOs on Elevating Brand Strategy

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by: 

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results.
Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth
We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth.
Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast
brought to you by BAV Group & IRG 

Season 2: Episode 6
The Color of Money is Green: Inclusion as Competitive Advantage with Federal Savings Bank's Alejandra Denda

SUMMARY

In this thought-provoking conversation, Alejandra Denda, the first-ever CMO of the Federal Savings Bank, joins host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to challenge the myth that financial systems are inherently objective and equitable. Drawing from her multicultural background and experience with Argentina's 2001 economic collapse, Alejandra reveals how traditional banking practices often disadvantage immigrant communities. She shares how Federal Savings Bank disrupts industry norms through innovative products, proving financial inclusion can be both socially responsible and profitable. The discussion explores the counterintuitive nature of credit building, the link between homeownership and wealth creation, and how bringing consumer-centric CPG marketing principles to the traditionally product-focused financial sector drives meaningful change. As both a banking executive and professor, Alejandra advocates for authenticity in leadership and applying cultural frameworks to better understand diverse communities' financial behaviors.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Alejandra Denda: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aledenda/
• The Federal Savings Bank: https://www.thefederalsavingsbank.com
• Northwestern University; https://www.medill.northwestern.edu/directory/faculty/alejandra-denda.html
• Gert Hofstede’s Cultural Dimensions framework: https://geerthofstede.com/culture-geert-hofstede-gert-jan-hofstede/6d-model-of-national-culture/
• Argentine Economic Crisis: https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/argentines-recall-nations-worst-ever-crisis-20-years-on.phtml
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com
• Ikigai of Marketing: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com/pdf/TheFounderPerspectiveTheIkigaiofMarketing.pdf

TAKEAWAYS

• CPG marketing principles can transform financial services 
• Challenging risk assumptions reveals untapped markets
• Multicultural perspectives reveal overlooked market opportunities
• Need-based framing drives consumer adoption
• Marketing can address exclusionary practices that limit growth
• Cultural frameworks help interpret data effectively
• Marketing drives innovation in conservative sectors
• Authentic leadership builds cross-stakeholder trust
• Consumer-centric development disrupts industry norms
• Social impact and business growth are directly correlated

CHAPTERS

00:00 The Power of Credit Scores

02:01 Cultural Perspectives on Money

04:44 Breaking Myths in Financial Institutions

06:44 Addressing Socioeconomic Disparities

10:05 Innovative Products for Diverse Communities

11:50 Consumer-Centric Product Development

13:00 The Impact of Ikigai in Marketing

17:08 Cultural Context in Marketing Strategies

19:35 Authenticity in Leadership and Marketing

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by: 

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results.

Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth

We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth.

Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast
brought to you by BAV Group & IRG 

Season 2: Episode 5

Beyond Brand vs. Performance: Transcending Marketing Dichotomies with Tariq Hassan

SUMMARY

Is the battle between brand and performance a false war? In this episode, Tariq Hassan, a seasoned marketing leader who has served as both CMO and CXO for iconic brands like McDonald's and Petco joins host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group. Tariq argues that pitting long-term brand building against short-term performance is an irrelevant and outdated debate. True success lies in making them coexist. Drawing from his personal "Ikigai" (or purpose) and a powerful story about his daughter's resilience, Tariq makes the case for vulnerable, human-centered leadership. He shares the secrets behind McDonald's most viral campaigns—like the Adult Happy Meal and the Grimace Birthday—revealing how they were born from "fan truths" and designed to create cultural experiences that drive performance. The conversation culminates in a powerful discussion about "humanized growth" and the concept of a "People P&L," a revolutionary way to measure the health of a business by the growth and confidence of its employees.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• Tariq Hassan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tariqhassan1/
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com
• Red Helicopter: https://www.redhelicopter.com/thebook
• Ikigai: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com/pdf/TheFounderPerspectiveTheIkigaiofMarketing.pdf 

TAKEAWAYS

• Stop "Convincing" and Start Aligning: If you find yourself in a position of "convincing" other C-suite members of marketing's value, you're already too late. True alignment happens upstream by ensuring marketing's plan is built around the universally understood goals of the business, with shared accountability from the CFO and operations from day one.
• Embrace "Boring is Beautiful": Resist the urge to constantly create for creation's sake. When a core strategy is working, the goal isn't to change it, but to "rinse and repeat" while finding new and exciting ways to execute. A "boring" strategy frees up the team to focus on brilliant execution that creates a strong market signal.
• Capitalize on "Fan Truths" for Performance: The most potent campaigns (like the Adult Happy Meal) come from unearthing simple, powerful truths your fans already believe. These "fan truths" are the key to creating cultural moments that feel authentic and drive massive performance, turning a simple transaction into a memorable brand experience.
• Measure Your "People P&L": The most forward-thinking leaders look beyond the traditional balance sheet. A "People P&L" tracks metrics like employee confidence, trust, and even maternity leave rates as leading indicators of a company's health, stability, and future growth potential.
• Treat Data as a Cultural Language: Data isn't just for targeting; it's a form of currency and language. Using data to demonstrate an intimate understanding of the customer builds a relationship. Using it poorly (e.g., sending an offer for something just purchased) breaks trust and is where personalization becomes "creepy."
• Don't Separate CMO and CXO Thinking: The roles of CMO and CXO are converging. Marketers are accountable for the customer experience everywhere, from external channels to internal operations. Success metrics for CX may start with employee workflow simplification, not just customer transactions, which ultimately leads to better brand interactions.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Navigating Marketing Priorities

02:51 Finding True North: Personal Philosophy in Leadership

05:45 The Role of Vulnerability in Leadership

08:43 Creating Stakeholder Value

11:43 Cross-Functional Collaboration for Success

14:56 Data-Driven Decision Making

17:46 Balancing Brand and Performance Marketing

20:48 The Intersection of CMO and CXO Roles

23:58 Personalization vs. Creepiness in Marketing

26:52 Humanized Growth: A New Paradigm

---

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by:

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results.
Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth
We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth.

Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast
brought to you by BAV Group & IRG 

Season 2: Episode 4
Human Intelligences in the Age of AI: Creating Value by Embracing Humanity as an Evolving Capability with Coca-Cola's Javier Meza

SUMMARY

In this engaging conversation, Javier Meza the President of Marketing & Europe CMO at The Coca-Cola Company, joins host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to explore the evolving relationship between technology and marketing, emphasizing the importance of understanding human needs and values. They discuss the impact of AI on marketing strategies, the idea of embracing humanity as an evolving capability, the significance of cultural nuances in technology adoption, and the necessity of maintaining long-term relationships with stakeholders. Javier shares insights from his extensive career at Coca-Cola, highlighting the role of intuition and leadership in navigating the complexities of modern marketing. The discussion culminates in Javier's aspirations for the future, including writing a book that intertwines philosophy and marketing.

LINKS

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/   
• Javier Meza: https://www.linkedin.com/in/javier-meza-robayo/
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com
• Defining Entropy: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entropy
• When coolers were innovative technology: https://www.coca-colacompany.com/about-us/history/dispensing-refreshment-these-innovations-that-have-helped-spread-enjoyment
• Coca-Cola’s 2024 Christmas Campaign: https://www.coca-colacompany.com/media-center/groundbreaking-digital-experience-and-films-fuse-holiday-heritage-with-cutting-edge-tech
• Coca-Cola Freestyle: https://www.coca-colafreestyle.com
• Short history of AI: https://ai100.stanford.edu/2016-report/appendix-i-short-history-ai
• Coca-Cola & FIFA World Cup: https://www.coca-colacompany.com/media-center/coca-cola-company-confirmed-for-fifa-club-world-cup-2025
• Share a Coke Campaign: https://www.coca-colacompany.com/media-center/iconic-share-a-coke-is-back-for-a-new-generation

TAKEAWAYS

• Marketers are at the forefront of technological innovation.
• Understanding human needs is crucial for effective marketing.
• AI will become integral to everyday life and marketing.
• Marketing is fundamentally about value exchange.
• Cultural nuances significantly influence technology adoption.
• Long-term relationships with stakeholders are essential for success.
• Intuition plays a vital role in marketing decisions.
• Technology should enhance, not replace, human experiences.
• Leadership skills are critical for navigating marketing challenges.
• Philosophical insights can deepen understanding of marketing practices. 
  
  

CHAPTERS

00:00 The Intersection of Technology and Humanity

02:56 AI: The Future of Marketing

05:51 Cultural Nuances in Technology Adoption

08:48 The Value Exchange in Marketing

11:59 Experiential Marketing and Technology

14:56 Humanized Growth and Stakeholder Perspectives

18:00 Leadership and Intuition in Marketing

21:06 Longevity in the Coca-Cola Company

24:06 Future Aspirations and Philosophical Insights

 
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Opinion Party: the marketing podcast

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Season 2 of Opinion Party: the marketing podcast is brought to you by: 

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding.™️
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results.

Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com

Institute for Real Growth

We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth.

Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast  
brought to you by BAV Group & IRG  

Season 2, Episode 3

From Creative Guesswork to Measurable Magic: Quantifying Creativity with Gain Theory's Manjiry Tamhane 

SUMMARY 

In this episode, Laura Jones welcomes Manjiry Tamhane, Global CEO of Gain Theory, to the Opinion Party to discuss the intersection of creativity and measurement in marketing. Manjiry shares how E=MC2 applies not only to physics but also to marketing measurement.  They explore how AI can enhance the measurement of creative effectiveness while bringing the fun back into creative, the importance of taxonomy in data context, and how marketers can unlock growth through better measurement practices. The conversation emphasizes the need for creativity in storytelling and the role of marketing in the C-suite, highlighting the importance of aligning marketing strategies with organizational goals. 

LINKS 

• Laura Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lapjones/    
• Manjiry Tamhane: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manjiry-tamhane-bb21782/  
• BAV Group: https://www.bavgroup.com  
• Gain Theory: https://gaintheory.com  
• Creative Effectiveness Decoded: https://gaintheory.com/creative-effectiveness-decoded-a-guide-to-data-informed-creative-impact/  
• Institute for Real Growth: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com  

TAKEAWAYS 

• Creativity and measurement can coexist in marketing. 
• AI advancements allow for better measurement of creativity. 
• Taxonomy is crucial for providing context to data. 
• E=MC² can be applied to marketing effectiveness. 
• AI can help codify and analyze large volumes of creative content. 
• Creativity is essential for storytelling and emotional connection. 
• Marketers need to understand their organizational culture for growth. 
• Effective measurement can unlock new growth opportunities. 
• Collaboration with the C-suite is vital for marketing success. 
• Marketers should speak the language of business leaders. 

CHAPTERS 

00:00 Bridging Creativity and Measurement 

02:54 The Role of AI in Marketing 

05:51 Understanding Taxonomy in Creative Measurement 

08:59 E=MC²: Effectiveness in Marketing 

11:55 AI's Impact on Creative Execution 

15:00 The Human Element in Creativity 

17:50 Unlocking Growth Through Measurement 

20:49 The Importance of Organizational Culture 

23:46  Marketing's Role in the C-Suite 

Opinion Party: the marketing podcast 

For season two, we asked twelve marketing leaders from a world class set of organizations to join host Laura Jones, Global CEO of BAV Group, to talk marketing myths, trends, data, and opinions. Filmed live on site at the Institute for Real Growth Summit in Cannes, summer 2025. Find us at https://www.theopinionparty.com or wherever you get your podcasts. 

Brought to you by:  

BAV Group, the world’s leading authority on data-driven branding. ™️ 
Our strategic consulting services transform brand growth into brand = growth. Whether you need to analyze, transform, or grow your brand, our team provide solutions based on 30 years of proven methodology and results. 

Learn more at https://www.bavgroup.com 

Institute for Real Growth 

We inspire CMOs to increase their personal, business, and societal impact by driving more Humanized Growth. 

Learn more at: https://instituteforrealgrowth.com  

CREDITS
Host & Executive Producer: Laura Jones 
Executive Producer: Ketzirah Lesser
Production & Still Photography: Bronac McNeill Photography & Film
Co-director, Camera, Sound, Edit: Natalie Barrass 
Photos © Bronac McNeil Photography & Film 

 
Creators & Guests